The raid issue on Han [MERGE]

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  • TVF
    36860 posts Member
    edited March 2018
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    In P4, when only Traya is left, STH can taunt then put up the "can't kill me" ability. Traya can't kill him and he keeps granting TM to the rest of the team.

    We still don't know how the nerf will take shape, or when.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Weequay
    40 posts Member
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    fascizio wrote: »

    The point people arguing in favor of this re-balance are continually either missing of ignoring is that while the raid may not be working as intended by CG all the mechanics are working as intended and described. This was an oversight on their part, which is kinda mind-blowing to me because every time a new character is introduced with retribution or a unique/leader that counterattacks STHan is always mentioned within one page of the character post. TM gain has always been strong and as a result at least some portion of the player base has never forgotten Han so it boggles my mind that the devs did.

    If they nerf STHan overall because of their oversight that's not OK. Adjust the enrage mechanic if you must, that seems perfectly reasonable, but Han is doing what he's always done. He's balanced everywhere they didn't forget about him.

    I'm neither missing nor ignoring the fact, that everything is working as described. Of course it is an oversight on their part. It actually doesn't matter if its working as described or if its a bug. In both cases it's an oversight on their part.

    I totally agree that han should not be nerfed in any way. In fact I'd rather see them buff his mediocre zeta ability. But his interaction with the raid mechanics definitely needs to be changed.

  • fascizio
    572 posts Member
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    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    fascizio wrote: »
    Additionally Kylo and his lash out that keeps getting brought up is another false equivalency. Lash out has never crit since they added KRU. They saw a potential balance problem and adjusted for it before it went live, which is what they should have done here. Add to that chain lash out can be done in the arena and therefor can negatively impact other player's experience. The raid is a contained PvE environment so the comparison is flawed on that level as well.

    Well now the devs have seen a potential abalnce probelm with StHan and are contaijing the damage. Add that to the fact that now more players are able to traya more easily and thus use her jn arena to negatively affect other players. In addition, raid rankings for rewards are very competitive and players will be able to cheat their way through actual investment for major damage.

    Sorry, but no. If Traya is a balance problem (which remains to be seen) then she's a balance problem independent of how quickly or widely she's farmed.
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    TVF wrote: »
    In P4, when only Traya is left, STH can taunt then put up the "can't kill me" ability. Traya can't kill him and he keeps granting TM to the rest of the team.

    We still don't know how the nerf will take shape, or when.

    Ahhhh ok, thank you!
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    Kyno wrote: »
    It's a loop. They almost always want to close loops. It's ok we all knew this was coming.

    Loop or not, I beleive the new content was pushed way too early.
    What they could do is to release an open beta to test out these kind of things.
    STH is litterally the only team which offers a usable strategy for p3. If they nerf Han, Nerf the Bonds of weakness and Traya's basic as well. I could write a long and deep analysis about p3 as well, but I am kinda not in the mood for that.
    Plus I hope they will nerf both Traya and Nihilus. Their unique does the same as the Fearsome Foe, and the double and triple attacks are def. overkill. I hope the devs will realise that and remove it from all of them.
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    leef wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    I'm glad it will get fixed. It's obvioulsy broken and i don't give a fudge about the money. (i'm f2p)

    How is a character doing what they are supposed to do "obviously broken"?

    I'm sorry, if you can't see how st han is obvioulsy broken then there's not point in arguing about it.

    Incorrect.
    This version of Stormtrooper Han is one of the oldest character designs. (more or less the same mechanic since Nov 2016)
    Raid Traya just came out last week.
    If anything is broken, it is Traya.
    StHan is a player toon
    Traya is an enemy boss.
    It is Traya who needs to be fixed not Han.
    If Han's kit gets changed that affect all player who use him in arena.
    If Traya gets fixed, that would have no negative effect outside of the p3 of the raid.
  • Options
    They should NOT change STHan's kit because of this. He is doing precisely what his ability states. Versus the traya mechanic it is WAI. I predict the fix is either going to break the raid or break TM mechanics.

    I laugh that he is the login toon also. How could they have NOT KNOWN he was going to be so good in the raid? They pulled him out of nowhere for login shards. Hint hint?
  • Options
    Leon4107 wrote: »
    The guy offering the easy fix of just changing Treya to remove health instead of damage? No way man. That ruins my team I just tried on Treya yesterday that did 2.9 million. Krennic and DT, with shore and thrawn. Ext. Point is. Shore taunts so empire get 15% back on specials, thrawn fractures which gives 15% back on specials. Now every time krennic is damaged 50% chance of 100% tm for death trooper who is constantly using Death mark and basic. I hit 10 times with Death Trooper before treya hit once. Now I want someone to test out Zader with that combo... I dont have zader but the tm removal.. unresistable.. plus magma trooper who attacks twice.. might be able to stack turn meter removal and get maybe 12 or more hits before treya hits.

    Or Imperial commando or dookou, who also attack twice.
  • Options
    Yes!!! Don't stop with StHan either! Nerf everyone!

    Nerf Han
    Nerf JTR
    Nerf Death Trooper
    Nerf anyone who can actually be strategized to do any damage!

    Raids aren't about strategy anyways! None of this game is! Remove any thinking and just make it pure damage output! That way I can finally run my CUP alongside my Palpatine and they will both do equal amounts of damage!

    DO IT!!!!!!

    Make the bosses to immune to all damage!!
  • Options
    I just ran the stHan team and only got 3 million damage ( all gear 12)
    @swgohfan29 what is this 100 million damage you speak of? What mods did they use? Is there a video? As far as I know it didn't get changed yet.
  • Options
    Here's an idea... nerf STHan however you want, but bring back the JTR event at the end of the month. Fair compromise IMO.
  • Options
    DoomeyEyes wrote: »
    Here's an idea... nerf STHan however you want, but bring back the JTR event at the end of the month. Fair compromise IMO.

    And run it like the chimaera event where we only need 3/5
  • TVF
    36860 posts Member
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    DoomeyEyes wrote: »
    Here's an idea... nerf STHan however you want, but bring back the JTR event at the end of the month. Fair compromise IMO.

    Hahahaha no.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
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    fascizio wrote: »
    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    fascizio wrote: »
    Additionally Kylo and his lash out that keeps getting brought up is another false equivalency. Lash out has never crit since they added KRU. They saw a potential balance problem and adjusted for it before it went live, which is what they should have done here. Add to that chain lash out can be done in the arena and therefor can negatively impact other player's experience. The raid is a contained PvE environment so the comparison is flawed on that level as well.

    Well now the devs have seen a potential abalnce probelm with StHan and are contaijing the damage. Add that to the fact that now more players are able to traya more easily and thus use her jn arena to negatively affect other players. In addition, raid rankings for rewards are very competitive and players will be able to cheat their way through actual investment for major damage.

    Sorry, but no. If Traya is a balance problem (which remains to be seen) then she's a balance problem independent of how quickly or widely she's farmed.
    fascizio wrote: »
    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    fascizio wrote: »
    Additionally Kylo and his lash out that keeps getting brought up is another false equivalency. Lash out has never crit since they added KRU. They saw a potential balance problem and adjusted for it before it went live, which is what they should have done here. Add to that chain lash out can be done in the arena and therefor can negatively impact other player's experience. The raid is a contained PvE environment so the comparison is flawed on that level as well.

    Well now the devs have seen a potential abalnce probelm with StHan and are contaijing the damage. Add that to the fact that now more players are able to traya more easily and thus use her jn arena to negatively affect other players. In addition, raid rankings for rewards are very competitive and players will be able to cheat their way through actual investment for major damage.

    Sorry, but no. If Traya is a balance problem (which remains to be seen) then she's a balance problem independent of how quickly or widely she's farmed.

    No. Traya does not seems to have a balance probelm (yet). but stHan able to slaughter the raid does hve a balance probelm
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    I just ran the stHan team and only got 3 million damage ( all gear 12)
    @swgohfan29 what is this 100 million damage you speak of? What mods did they use? Is there a video? As far as I know it didn't get changed yet.

    Either someone was trolling, or Zentress plus STHan will continously stack damage until they re hitting for over 500k per hit.

    @leef Is this right?
  • EAS
    89 posts Member
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    Content philosophy.... what a load of crap
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    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    I just ran the stHan team and only got 3 million damage ( all gear 12)
    @swgohfan29 what is this 100 million damage you speak of? What mods did they use? Is there a video? As far as I know it didn't get changed yet.

    Either someone was trolling, or Zentress plus STHan will continously stack damage until they re hitting for over 500k per hit.

    @leef Is this right?

    Ventress zeta lead removes TM that can’t be resisted. It could literally go on forever.

    This nerf goes far beyond what was expected. This is ridiculous. I’m ticked I used a zeta on BB-8 just for this raid.
  • Options
    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    fascizio wrote: »
    Additionally Kylo and his lash out that keeps getting brought up is another false equivalency. Lash out has never crit since they added KRU. They saw a potential balance problem and adjusted for it before it went live, which is what they should have done here. Add to that chain lash out can be done in the arena and therefor can negatively impact other player's experience. The raid is a contained PvE environment so the comparison is flawed on that level as well.

    Well now the devs have seen a potential abalnce probelm with StHan and are contaijing the damage. Add that to the fact that now more players are able to traya more easily and thus use her jn arena to negatively affect other players. In addition, raid rankings for rewards are very competitive and players will be able to cheat their way through actual investment for major damage.

    You still need 50 JTR teams to finish the first 2 phases
  • TVF
    36860 posts Member
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    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Bigbearxba wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Bigbearxba wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    I'm glad it will get fixed. It's obvioulsy broken and i don't give a fudge about the money. (i'm f2p)

    How is a character doing what they are supposed to do "obviously broken"?

    Allowing an entire squad to survive for 15 minutes or more AFTER Enrage (on full auto) is not “doing what they are supposed to do.”

    Rancor can be done full auto without even letting it have a single turn. This is not even the whole raid, just one and half phase. In the rest, whale-focused JTR still dominates.
    And yes, STHan is indeed doing what he is supposed to. His mechanics don't change in the raid, he does exactly the same thing as anywhere else: give tm when damaged. Face the truth, they just don't want a free and common character to have a big impact.

    Preventing a boss from getting to Enrage is WAI in the Pit and AAT raids. They fully accept that in Pit and AAT. The Sith Raid was intended to be designed so that those tactics do not work. The bosses are supposed to get to Enrage and you are supposed to die quickly. STH BREAKS this intended mechanic. Therefore he is not working as intended in the raid. Either he needs to be changed or the raid needs to be changed.

    Sure, just like it is intended for Nihilus to be extremely hard to debuff and reduce tm, but JTR BREAKS this leading to massive damage. Following your logic, she is also not working as intended and the nerf hammer should hit her as well. But she is very hard to get without spending, so it's fine...

    Extremely hard=\=impossible.

    =\= \= \=
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
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    AnnerDoon wrote: »
    Nerf Han's TM manipulation because it's not what they intended? OK. As long as JTR's TM manipulation is nerfed at the same time.

    Your wish was granted :)
    Can we rotate out the Moderators?
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    AnnerDoon wrote: »
    Nerf Han's TM manipulation because it's not what they intended? OK. As long as JTR's TM manipulation is nerfed at the same time.

    Your wish was granted :)

    Sorry, but no. Expose was nerfed. Not RJT's TM manipulation.

  • Options
    DoomeyEyes wrote: »
    Here's an idea... nerf STHan however you want, but bring back the JTR event at the end of the month. Fair compromise IMO.

    This is kinda funny considering what just happened
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