Follow up Update on Sith Raid Rewards - 4/12/18 [MEGA]

Replies

  • @CG_Carrie

    Your comment,

    “However, in order for this to be true, it will require:
    • The value of Darth Traya to be realized...”

    has offended me. This statement implies that we, the player base, are not smart enough to realize Traya is valuable. I believe patronizing your customers, which has become more frequent as of late, is a disgraceful business model, as well as being generally unethical. If I have misinterpreted your intent of this statement, please clarify.

    Exactly.

    Besides, Traya shards will be useless in a couple weeks/months anyway.
  • Nikoms565
    11067 posts Member
    @CG_Carrie

    Your comment,

    “However, in order for this to be true, it will require:
    • The value of Darth Traya to be realized...”

    has offended me. This statement implies that we, the player base, are not smart enough to realize Traya is valuable. I believe patronizing your customers, which has become more frequent as of late, is a disgraceful business model, as well as being generally unethical. If I have misinterpreted your intent of this statement, please clarify.

    As many of you know, I am generally not a defender of CG/EA, but, again in the interest of fairness, I don't think she meant "realized" to mean "understood" but more in the classic sense, "to be made a reality".
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • SSB
    63 posts Member
    Nauros wrote: »
    Sonido wrote: »
    another example from T4 raid, took 3 days to kill
    mQjB1W.jpg

    the difficulty not worse the reward anymore, going to kill only T1 now

    You are aware that those 400 GET equal 5 G12 salvage of your choice (or some Hyoda or Wampa shards), right? That's not something to discount lightly. Also, almost double guild currency makes up for some of the gear as well, and the ability to choose which is important. I would say, from your pictures, that you break even.

    What?!?!!? You’re kidding right? Either you’re a Dev or don’t play the game enough to realize the massive nerf
  • Nikoms565
    11067 posts Member
    Lol. Good luck making sense of this thread now.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • They are deleting posts now so you don't even see negatives. 36 salvage for 13 place in heroic sith raid. Guess I'll screen shot this right away and post it to reddit, assuming they can't delete everything they don't like there
  • Has anyone in a lower end guild (<50m) tried running t1 or t2? I'm curious what the run time is on those compared to t4, and if we could complete a t1 raid in one day if it would be the most efficient way to rack up various currency.
  • JeerCScaas
    186 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    So it's late Friday, I guess no one is coming here to correct this mess ??
    @CG_Kozispoon @CG_Carrie

    Thank your for screwing our beloved game along this week and week end.
    I hope you grab some beers all together, have some quality time, some laughs, and all come back Monday to fix this whole mess.

    I tried to keep it civilized so this comment doesn't get deleted and reach you.
    I don't thank you.
    I'm glad I saved some money this week with the game and will be able to enjoy it differently.
  • Nikoms565
    11067 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Has anyone in a lower end guild (<50m) tried running t1 or t2? I'm curious what the run time is on those compared to t4, and if we could complete a t1 raid in one day if it would be the most efficient way to rack up various currency.

    Lol. If this is actually true, then have totally kittened this raid up more than anyone thought was kitteningly possible. A raid structure that discourages players from working toward increasingly higher goals? Oh kitteny kitten! :D
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Has anyone in a lower end guild (<50m) tried running t1 or t2? I'm curious what the run time is on those compared to t4, and if we could complete a t1 raid in one day if it would be the most efficient way to rack up various currency.

    Lol. If this is actually true, then have totally kittened this raid up more than anyone thought was kitteningly possible. A raid structure that discourages players from working toward increasingly higher goals? Oh kitteny kitten! :D

    That'd be quite ironic since they explicitly stated, regarding Nightsister Zombie, that players shouldn't be rewarded for undergearing.
  • My 50m guild should be finishing a t4 raid today after.... idk... 8 days? We're going to run a t1 and I'm going to try and drum up some support and see if we can finish it in a day or even two. No one in my guild has been happy with their equipment drops, even pre nerf, so my thinking is that we just forget gear and just go all in for as much currency as we can muster. Maybe people will start to care about it with less rewards but more frequent payouts - but I doubt it.
  • Nikoms565
    11067 posts Member
    This is why love this community. If there is a way to min/max the lousy post-nerf raid rewards by completing lower tiered raids faster, someone will figure it out and share it (maybe not here....).

    Go players! :D
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Please make the raids harder, the rewards worse and make zetas harder to obtain, GS12 gear should be neigh impossible to obtain. Ship and character shards should be reduced to 1 shard payout. Omegas should almost not exist.

    “since they seem so incredibly skilled at listening to the players....and then doing the opposite.”
  • Boom!!!!!!!!! I guarantee CG isn't going to touch your post with a 10 foot pole!!!! Bro... You hit the nail on the head with this one!!!! Love it!!!!!!
  • Broxxor
    543 posts Member
    @CG_Carrie Can you answer a question - we did a Sith raid and I placed 5th. Got 10-10-8-8 (four pieces - well...really 3 since I got 18 of one piece, but I digress).

    Guildmates got 10-10-8-8 AND a fully crafted piece.

    Is it the intention of the developers to have the "crafted chance at a piece" mean you have a chance to get a crafted piece, but if you don't you get nothing at all?

    If so, how exactly is that even with the rest of the participants again?

  • nobodyfromjakku
    240 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Has anyone in a lower end guild (<50m) tried running t1 or t2? I'm curious what the run time is on those compared to t4, and if we could complete a t1 raid in one day if it would be the most efficient way to rack up various currency.

    We're 30m GP, have crap participation because everyone hates the raid, and finish T2 in under 2 days. 50m GP with full participation could probably do T1 in a day. Disclaimer: we've got about 8 level 85s who solo Hancor steering our guild along, and one of them is awfully close to soloing P3 and P4 of HAAT. So it might depend on if you all are roughly equal or if you've got a few with strong rosters.

    Also keep in mind T1 and T2 don't pay GE currency, only guild tokens. We've started cycling T2 and T3 so we can get GE tokens and better gear.
  • What in the blue hell possessed someone to merge a really good post into this mess? People just striking out left and right since expose nerf.
    Still waiting on that edit forum profile setting so I can change my name...
  • gufu21
    302 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    @Broxxor and @Maegor, THIS IS EXACTLY IT.

    There's no transparency in this system. How good is a "good chance"? How great is a "great change"? How does the full-drop chance work? Are some pieces more likely to drop than others?

    @CG_Carrie, with all respect to what I want to believe are sincere efforts, if you want to show the player base that this isn't a nerf contrary to many's experiences, please give us some data. What were the amounts and percentages of RNG around the old drops? What are the amounts and percentages of RNG with the new drops? With hard data, how does the new drop system represent an aggregate improvement?

    If a player wants to find out the kind of percentages they're playing with to determine whether investing resources or even real money is a good decision for the return, where can they go to find this information? As far as I know right now, nowhere.

    Right now, we mostly have to just go on your word that the new system is an improvement, even though players' own experiences say otherwise.

    Side note: The rewards for every STR tier below heroic have always been paltry compared to the time and effort involved. If your end-game content is not providing indisputably better rewards than Hpit and HAAT, this a problem.
    Post edited by gufu21 on
  • Maegor wrote: »
    I compiled screen shots of the old raid rewards and the new raid rewards for the Heroic Sith Raid and came to the conclusions listed below.

    Sample Sizes of Old Drops:
    Rank 1-3: 20
    Rank 4-10: 14
    Rank 11-20: 13
    Rank 21-30: 16
    Rank 31-40: 13
    Rank 41-50: 11

    Sample Size of New Boxes: 31

    Assumptions: That in the new system all full pieces in the loot table have an equal chance of dropping, at both the 100% promised drop rate and the current and further down the line future.

    Clarifications: G12 GET piece cost = 5,600 GET. When rancor piece is talked about, I am using an mk3 carb as the baseline piece.

    Under the promised 100% drop rate in the new system:
    oaJfmvG.png
    • All ranks 15 or greater take a loss when pieces are converted to their GET and Guild Currency equivalent (cost to purchase from the store).
    • Ranks 16-30 are basically a wash on guild currency while taking about 1/3 of a g12 piece's value loss
    • Rank 31-40 are gaining 1/2 of a rancor piece from the guild store and losing about 1/3 of a g12 piece
    • Rank 41-50 are gaining about 3/4 of a rancor piece from the guild store and losing about 1/8 of a g12 piece
    • Total loss for the guild: GET = 106,939; Guild Currency = 726
    • Average loss per member: GET = 2,138; Guild Currency = 14

    Under the current and future planned 40% full piece drop rate:
    Guwu0Oq.png
    • All ranks taking a loss in GET and Guild Currency
    • Rank 1-3 are losing over a full piece of g12 gear (about 1.25 piece loss) and a little over 4 rancor pieces
    • Rank 3-10 are losing about 3/4 of a g12 piece and a little over 1.5 rancor pieces
    • Rank 11-20 are losing about half of a g12 piece and almost a full rancor piece
    • Rank 31-40 are losing about half of a g12 piece and about 1/3 of a rancor piece
    • Rank 41-50 are losing about 1/4 of a g12 piece and taking a small loss on guild currency equivalents
    • Total loss for the guild: GET = 148939; Guild Currency = 129,526
    • Average loss per member: GET = 2,978; Guild Currency = 2,590

    This certainly does not reflect how I interpret when @CG_Carrie said in an April 2 post that "Given the difficult of the raid, we will be increasing the rewards a bit" nor does it match "To our Heroic raiders: please take some time over the next couple of weeks and take a look at the aggregate GP lift among your guildmates... and the rate of growth in ALL players' ability to complete the raid, over the coming weeks". This represents a total loss for the guild in both scenarios, and the only gain can be seen in the 100% drop rate scenario for members that get rank 31+ (and even then only in guild currency since they are still losing GET equivalence).

    Now, we are getting g12.5 gear added and that loot will be added to the loot tables. The only way that gear being added makes up for the current losses in GET under the 40% full drop rate scenario (since they have been said to come at the same time in May) is if we a) get between 35 and 40 pieces of salvage AND b) it has the same GET cost as the current g12 gear. In my opinion, both of those are very unlikely.

    @CG_Carrie @CG_SaIera @CG_TopHat and any other CG employee that this is pertinent to, if you have any data that shows my tables above are incorrect please provide. Also, if you don't want to provide hard data, you can provide drop rates under the new loot system and old loot system and I will happily calculate the expected value of gains or losses for guilds and members.

    Getting into my personal opinion of the changes, I can understand if CG thinks the original boxes dropped too much loot. I can swallow that from a business perspective. What I can't quite comprehend are statements that this is better for our guilds in the long term, when it obviously isn't.

    I welcome any dev comments that challenges the validity of this analysis.

    Just quoting to make more visible for people who haven't seen yet since someone merged it...
    Still waiting on that edit forum profile setting so I can change my name...
  • Jeric
    259 posts Member
    Maegor wrote: »
    I compiled screen shots of the old raid rewards and the new raid rewards for the Heroic Sith Raid and came to the conclusions listed below.

    Sample Sizes of Old Drops:
    Rank 1-3: 20
    Rank 4-10: 14
    Rank 11-20: 13
    Rank 21-30: 16
    Rank 31-40: 13
    Rank 41-50: 11

    Sample Size of New Boxes: 31

    Assumptions: That in the new system all full pieces in the loot table have an equal chance of dropping, at both the 100% promised drop rate and the current and further down the line future.

    Clarifications: G12 GET piece cost = 5,600 GET. When rancor piece is talked about, I am using an mk3 carb as the baseline piece.

    Under the promised 100% drop rate in the new system:
    oaJfmvG.png
    • All ranks 15 or greater take a loss when pieces are converted to their GET and Guild Currency equivalent (cost to purchase from the store).
    • Ranks 16-30 are basically a wash on guild currency while taking about 1/3 of a g12 piece's value loss
    • Rank 31-40 are gaining 1/2 of a rancor piece from the guild store and losing about 1/3 of a g12 piece
    • Rank 41-50 are gaining about 3/4 of a rancor piece from the guild store and losing about 1/8 of a g12 piece
    • Total loss for the guild: GET = 106,939; Guild Currency = 726
    • Average loss per member: GET = 2,138; Guild Currency = 14

    Under the current and future planned 40% full piece drop rate:
    Guwu0Oq.png
    • All ranks taking a loss in GET and Guild Currency
    • Rank 1-3 are losing over a full piece of g12 gear (about 1.25 piece loss) and a little over 4 rancor pieces
    • Rank 3-10 are losing about 3/4 of a g12 piece and a little over 1.5 rancor pieces
    • Rank 11-20 are losing about half of a g12 piece and almost a full rancor piece
    • Rank 31-40 are losing about half of a g12 piece and about 1/3 of a rancor piece
    • Rank 41-50 are losing about 1/4 of a g12 piece and taking a small loss on guild currency equivalents
    • Total loss for the guild: GET = 148939; Guild Currency = 129,526
    • Average loss per member: GET = 2,978; Guild Currency = 2,590

    This certainly does not reflect how I interpret when @CG_Carrie said in an April 2 post that "Given the difficult of the raid, we will be increasing the rewards a bit" nor does it match "To our Heroic raiders: please take some time over the next couple of weeks and take a look at the aggregate GP lift among your guildmates... and the rate of growth in ALL players' ability to complete the raid, over the coming weeks". This represents a total loss for the guild in both scenarios, and the only gain can be seen in the 100% drop rate scenario for members that get rank 31+ (and even then only in guild currency since they are still losing GET equivalence).

    Now, we are getting g12.5 gear added and that loot will be added to the loot tables. The only way that gear being added makes up for the current losses in GET under the 40% full drop rate scenario (since they have been said to come at the same time in May) is if we a) get between 35 and 40 pieces of salvage AND b) it has the same GET cost as the current g12 gear. In my opinion, both of those are very unlikely.

    @CG_Carrie @CG_SaIera @CG_TopHat and any other CG employee that this is pertinent to, if you have any data that shows my tables above are incorrect please provide. Also, if you don't want to provide hard data, you can provide drop rates under the new loot system and old loot system and I will happily calculate the expected value of gains or losses for guilds and members.

    Getting into my personal opinion of the changes, I can understand if CG thinks the original boxes dropped too much loot. I can swallow that from a business perspective. What I can't quite comprehend are statements that this is better for our guilds in the long term, when it obviously isn't.

    I welcome any dev comments that challenges the validity of this analysis.

    I love how they merged this and there still isn't a direct response from CG.

    Anyway, today was vault day and instead the family and I are going out to see a film. Day 2 of the agreement CG made asking me to be patient so day 2 of revenue loss for them.

    Days of patience - 2
    Total revenue lost - $99.99

    I'm a very generous person with my patience.
  • Stud3099
    561 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Has anyone in a lower end guild (<50m) tried running t1 or t2? I'm curious what the run time is on those compared to t4, and if we could complete a t1 raid in one day if it would be the most efficient way to rack up various currency.

    We do that when the tickets get too high. No event store currency... We can complete tier 1 twice in a day if we have enough raid tickets. 44mil GP
  • Jeric wrote: »

    Anyway, today was vault day and instead the family and I are going out to see a film. Day 2 of the agreement CG made asking me to be patient so day 2 of revenue loss for them.

    Days of patience - 2
    Total revenue lost - $99.99

    I'm a very generous person with my patience.

    You have a vault day? How often is vault day?
  • Randocalrissian
    506 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Did they move maegors post or just delete it?
  • I seriously got better rewards from rank 6 PIT (with a 10 min investment) than I did from rank 5 heroic sith. That is just all kinds of wrong in any scenario.
  • Jeric
    259 posts Member
    Did they move maegors post or just delete it?

    They merged it here. A few of us have been quoting it to keep it visible while adding additional commentary to keep a substantive discussion about his efforts going.

    :)

  • Jeric
    259 posts Member
    Stud3099 wrote: »
    Jeric wrote: »

    Anyway, today was vault day and instead the family and I are going out to see a film. Day 2 of the agreement CG made asking me to be patient so day 2 of revenue loss for them.

    Days of patience - 2
    Total revenue lost - $99.99

    I'm a very generous person with my patience.

    You have a vault day? How often is vault day?

    Every two weeks.
  • Good job keeping it relevant, lot of eye opening information there
  • We are a middle class guild with just over 50 million GP. I'm the guild leader and as much as I loath the Sith Raid, I put in several hours worth of play over the week it took us to do tier 4. I came in second and got virtually no gear I can use. I even got a blue item. Another guild member who placed 43 got a GL 12 item. Way to get players to not care. Ironic you wanted to make a raid that you could not auto and yet I have no choice but to auto from now on since it makes no difference if I place second or 50th. Rewards are RNG. Your raid has been a disaster from the beginning. It's not fun and people don't like to play it and now you have put the frosting on the cake and given them absolutely no reason to even try.
  • Randocalrissian
    506 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Cappie wrote: »
    We are a middle class guild with just over 50 million GP. I'm the guild leader and as much as I loath the Sith Raid, I put in several hours worth of play over the week it took us to do tier 4. I came in second and got virtually no gear I can use. I even got a blue item. Another guild member who placed 43 got a GL 12 item. Way to get players to not care. Ironic you wanted to make a raid that you could not auto and yet I have no choice but to auto from now on since it makes no difference if I place second or 50th. Rewards are RNG. Your raid has been a disaster from the beginning. It's not fun and people don't like to play it and now you have put the frosting on the cake and given them absolutely no reason to even try.

    Aren’t all the rewards the same for all members? How did one of your guild members get gear that you didn’t receive as well?
  • Maegor
    1217 posts Member
    Cappie wrote: »
    We are a middle class guild with just over 50 million GP. I'm the guild leader and as much as I loath the Sith Raid, I put in several hours worth of play over the week it took us to do tier 4. I came in second and got virtually no gear I can use. I even got a blue item. Another guild member who placed 43 got a GL 12 item. Way to get players to not care. Ironic you wanted to make a raid that you could not auto and yet I have no choice but to auto from now on since it makes no difference if I place second or 50th. Rewards are RNG. Your raid has been a disaster from the beginning. It's not fun and people don't like to play it and now you have put the frosting on the cake and given them absolutely no reason to even try.

    Aren’t all the rewards the same for all members? How did one of your guild members get gear that you didn’t receive as well?

    The boxes are of the same quality, the contents still roll independently.
  • Maegor wrote: »
    Cappie wrote: »
    We are a middle class guild with just over 50 million GP. I'm the guild leader and as much as I loath the Sith Raid, I put in several hours worth of play over the week it took us to do tier 4. I came in second and got virtually no gear I can use. I even got a blue item. Another guild member who placed 43 got a GL 12 item. Way to get players to not care. Ironic you wanted to make a raid that you could not auto and yet I have no choice but to auto from now on since it makes no difference if I place second or 50th. Rewards are RNG. Your raid has been a disaster from the beginning. It's not fun and people don't like to play it and now you have put the frosting on the cake and given them absolutely no reason to even try.

    Aren’t all the rewards the same for all members? How did one of your guild members get gear that you didn’t receive as well?

    The boxes are of the same quality, the contents still roll independently.

    Quantity*.

    Yeah I’m being that guy lmao
This discussion has been closed.