Follow up Update on Sith Raid Rewards - 4/12/18 [MEGA]

Replies

  • Jeric
    271 posts Member
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    Vice_torn wrote: »
    Personally I am not a fan of the flattened reward system. Someone that posts 0 damage should not earn similar rewards to someone that does 10mil+ to the sith bosses.

    What they game need is better beta testing. Overpowered squads should have been identified before it went live not 2weeks after. The amount of gear in the Heroic boxes might have been excessive, this should also have been fixed before it went live.

    Instead beta testing here seems to be a way for certain guilds to gain an upper hand. You talk about imbalance between players... you have X set of players getting uber rewards for a month, and now everyone else will take forever to close the power gap.

    A condition that ignores non effort like 0's is something that could alleviate that. Give the GL the ability to turn it on and off via toggle per each raid (and set a min damage percentage) and it should close some of the loopholes.
  • TVF
    36683 posts Member
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    Daeghaa wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Daeghaa wrote: »
    It didn't flatten the rewards, rank 1-3 still gets a very widen amount than others.

    How so? Everyone gets the same prize box. The contents of the box are still variable but that's not what the flattening referred to.

    That would be a major coincidence then, since 1st place on our STR got 5 gear rewards (2 being full ones, not g12 though) and I got 3 **** savages because I posted only zero. But that could happen, yeah.

    The box contains the same amount of salvage, plus a chance for a fully crafted piece and a component piece (I think). So everyone will get salvage, and some may get additional gear. WAI as far as I know.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Paarngfig
    112 posts Member
    edited April 2018
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    @April , no it’s absolutely as intended.... Didn’t you read the original post (that the mods want you to read, not the truth)?
    It’s obviously your fault for investing anything into this game and assuming you would get something in return. Totally foolish move on your part... at least according to what I read originally (again, useless and absurd... comes to mind.. on both accounts)!
  • Options
    Rewards were too good?
    This raid has been a pain from the start and I haven't gotten any good rewards.
  • Options
    Only one word describes the situation succinctly:

    Chicanery
  • Sonido
    81 posts Member
    edited April 2018
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    another example from T4 raid, took 3 days to kill
    mQjB1W.jpg

    the difficulty not worse the reward anymore, going to kill only T1 now
  • Nauros
    5429 posts Member
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    Sonido wrote: »
    another example from T4 raid, took 3 days to kill
    mQjB1W.jpg

    the difficulty not worse the reward anymore, going to kill only T1 now

    You are aware that those 400 GET equal 5 G12 salvage of your choice (or some Hyoda or Wampa shards), right? That's not something to discount lightly. Also, almost double guild currency makes up for some of the gear as well, and the ability to choose which is important. I would say, from your pictures, that you break even.
  • Sonido
    81 posts Member
    edited April 2018
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    Nauros wrote: »
    Sonido wrote: »
    another example from T4 raid, took 3 days to kill
    mQjB1W.jpg

    the difficulty not worse the reward anymore, going to kill only T1 now

    You are aware that those 400 GET equal 5 G12 salvage of your choice (or some Hyoda or Wampa shards), right? That's not something to discount lightly. Also, almost double guild currency makes up for some of the gear as well, and the ability to choose which is important. I would say, from your pictures, that you break even.

    doh, plz go buy me full mk5 stun gun for that extra currency, no? then keep silence

    mk5 stun gun costs 2541 crystals, 5 G12 salvage costs 300 crystals
  • C3hyp77
    162 posts Member
    edited April 2018
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    Nauros wrote: »
    Sonido wrote: »
    another example from T4 raid, took 3 days to kill
    mQjB1W.jpg

    the difficulty not worse the reward anymore, going to kill only T1 now

    You are aware that those 400 GET equal 5 G12 salvage of your choice (or some Hyoda or Wampa shards), right? That's not something to discount lightly. Also, almost double guild currency makes up for some of the gear as well, and the ability to choose which is important. I would say, from your pictures, that you break even.

    Explain me how you can get 100 carbanti and 50 stun gun with the 900 more guild token , i am curious

    pre nerf i can see 2 full gear , and almost 30 pieces of gear , post nerf i can see 19 pieces of gear , with 400 tb tokens , well 1 and half shard of wanpa or hyoda ( great !!! ) and 900 more tokens guilds so not event 20 carbanti 3 for example .... And you thinks it's even hmmmm .
  • Nauros
    5429 posts Member
    edited April 2018
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    Sonido wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Sonido wrote: »
    another example from T4 raid, took 3 days to kill
    mQjB1W.jpg

    the difficulty not worse the reward anymore, going to kill only T1 now

    You are aware that those 400 GET equal 5 G12 salvage of your choice (or some Hyoda or Wampa shards), right? That's not something to discount lightly. Also, almost double guild currency makes up for some of the gear as well, and the ability to choose which is important. I would say, from your pictures, that you break even.

    doh, plz go buy me full mk5 stun gun for that extra currency, no? then keep silence

    mk5 stun gun costs 2541 crystals, 5 G12 salvage costs 300 crystals

    Stun gun is farmable for energy, G12 not. I wish I was in your place, not having to take G12 wherever possible...
    Oh, and two fully crafted pieces from tier IV is far from the norm, we are running that regularly. So, congrats for your luck, I guess.
  • Vorgen
    254 posts Member
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    Nauros wrote: »
    Sonido wrote: »
    another example from T4 raid, took 3 days to kill
    mQjB1W.jpg

    the difficulty not worse the reward anymore, going to kill only T1 now

    You are aware that those 400 GET equal 5 G12 salvage of your choice (or some Hyoda or Wampa shards), right? That's not something to discount lightly. Also, almost double guild currency makes up for some of the gear as well, and the ability to choose which is important. I would say, from your pictures, that you break even.

    If you think he broken even on that, I will trade you 400 GET and 950 guild tokens for 1 full stun gun and 1 full mk3 carbantis any day of the wk.
  • Nauros
    5429 posts Member
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    Vorgen wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Sonido wrote: »
    another example from T4 raid, took 3 days to kill
    mQjB1W.jpg

    the difficulty not worse the reward anymore, going to kill only T1 now

    You are aware that those 400 GET equal 5 G12 salvage of your choice (or some Hyoda or Wampa shards), right? That's not something to discount lightly. Also, almost double guild currency makes up for some of the gear as well, and the ability to choose which is important. I would say, from your pictures, that you break even.

    If you think he broken even on that, I will trade you 400 GET and 950 guild tokens for 1 full stun gun and 1 full mk3 carbantis any day of the wk.

    Are two full pieces your average Tier IV drop? If so, take me to your magical christmas land.
    Of course, if you compare an outlier with an average (or below), you get huge difference. Try keeping in mind that each slot is a chance to either a bunch of salvage or a full piece and look at it this way. Doesn't look that bad now, does it?
    So, would I trade 2 full gear peaces for 400 GET? No. But would I trade a (rather small) chance for two full pieces for a certainty of 400 GET? Yeah, that sounds much better.
  • Vorgen
    254 posts Member
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    Nauros wrote: »
    Vorgen wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Sonido wrote: »
    another example from T4 raid, took 3 days to kill
    mQjB1W.jpg

    the difficulty not worse the reward anymore, going to kill only T1 now

    You are aware that those 400 GET equal 5 G12 salvage of your choice (or some Hyoda or Wampa shards), right? That's not something to discount lightly. Also, almost double guild currency makes up for some of the gear as well, and the ability to choose which is important. I would say, from your pictures, that you break even.

    If you think he broken even on that, I will trade you 400 GET and 950 guild tokens for 1 full stun gun and 1 full mk3 carbantis any day of the wk.

    Are two full pieces your average Tier IV drop? If so, take me to your magical christmas land.
    Of course, if you compare an outlier with an average (or below), you get huge difference. Try keeping in mind that each slot is a chance to either a bunch of salvage or a full piece and look at it this way. Doesn't look that bad now, does it?
    So, would I trade 2 full gear peaces for 400 GET? No. But would I trade a (rather small) chance for two full pieces for a certainty of 400 GET? Yeah, that sounds much better.

    You never commented about his drops being lucky. You simply pointed out the extra tickets he got and called it even.
  • Nauros
    5429 posts Member
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    Vorgen wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Vorgen wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Sonido wrote: »
    another example from T4 raid, took 3 days to kill
    mQjB1W.jpg

    the difficulty not worse the reward anymore, going to kill only T1 now

    You are aware that those 400 GET equal 5 G12 salvage of your choice (or some Hyoda or Wampa shards), right? That's not something to discount lightly. Also, almost double guild currency makes up for some of the gear as well, and the ability to choose which is important. I would say, from your pictures, that you break even.

    If you think he broken even on that, I will trade you 400 GET and 950 guild tokens for 1 full stun gun and 1 full mk3 carbantis any day of the wk.

    Are two full pieces your average Tier IV drop? If so, take me to your magical christmas land.
    Of course, if you compare an outlier with an average (or below), you get huge difference. Try keeping in mind that each slot is a chance to either a bunch of salvage or a full piece and look at it this way. Doesn't look that bad now, does it?
    So, would I trade 2 full gear peaces for 400 GET? No. But would I trade a (rather small) chance for two full pieces for a certainty of 400 GET? Yeah, that sounds much better.

    You never commented about his drops being lucky. You simply pointed out the extra tickets he got and called it even.

    Yeah, my bad. I was looking at the type and number of slots, rather than full gear vs. salvage. Sorry about that. What I meant was that on average, one should break even if the pictures are anything to go by.
    And the drop indeed is lucky. We have T4 on farm, so I know what the average looks like. Would gladly sacrifice a slot or two for extra currency.
  • Broxxor
    595 posts Member
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    Nauros wrote: »
    Sonido wrote: »
    another example from T4 raid, took 3 days to kill
    mQjB1W.jpg

    the difficulty not worse the reward anymore, going to kill only T1 now

    You are aware that those 400 GET equal 5 G12 salvage of your choice (or some Hyoda or Wampa shards), right? That's not something to discount lightly. Also, almost double guild currency makes up for some of the gear as well, and the ability to choose which is important. I would say, from your pictures, that you break even.

    Not in the slightest.

    I would assume the Heroic raid is for end-game players who are looking for G12 gear (as in, gear to equip once you've achieved G12).

    That stuff has, for the most part, stopped dropping on new raid rewards. The money you get is enough (in this example) to net you 5 salvage for it. That means, it'll take approximately 12 raids to complete (using a lower tier piece of gear that requires 30 salvage of two different types). 12 raids for one gear piece is an insane grind.

    The guild store tokens are not usable for G12 gear, only some g11 gear and some of the lower gear from that. While it's useful - the extra 900 guild tokens there does not translate into much. In fact, it's approximately 10 salvage pieces of a G11 piece (i.e. gear equipped once you have g11 done). And the stuff you can get with it is all readily available from other sources (i.e. easy node farming, AAT raids).

    They're intentionally creating a gear wall for G12 gear here and then lying about a "net increase" using fuzzy math that includes gear that shouldn't be relevant in a high-end raid such as this.

    As I've said before - unless the gear in the Guild Events store is deeply discounted AND they add those G12 pieces to the guild store - then it won't be a net gain for the people who were running heroic.

    There's 0 reason to put forth the effort in the Sith raid outside of Traya. The amount of time spent doing this is ridiculous when the reward is taken into consideration.
  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
    edited April 2018
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    I also want to point something else out regarding the post-nerf gear:

    e9yfawqucl8m.png

    So the above is a top 10 finish. This has been one of the "LOOK! A FULL PIECE DROP!!" screenshots that has been held up as an example of how "good" the "improvements" are.

    A few points. First off, the full drop is a Mk3 Carbanti. I stated this previously, but I also received a full Mk3 Carbanti as a Raid reward earlier this week. For Heroic Rancor (ironically, coming in 8th as well...so, for the tin-foil hat club, there's that). So the HSith full drops are the same gear as the HRancor full drops.

    But let's take a look at the "highly desirable" salvage...well, we have the MkVI droid caller which is very nice...and easily farmed in LS 9D...and often shows up in the first slot of the guild store...and can be requested in quantities of 5 from your guildmates. Okay, maybe not the best example of a great drop.

    Those two different pieces that make up the Mk10 BlasTech...Mk10! That sounds expensive!!! But it's not. The "salvage" is easily farmable in 4 locations (light and dark, normal and hard) - and can be requested in quantities of 10 (which is 2 MORE than we just dropped!) from your guildmates. The "component" piece is also farmable on one hard and one normal node (LS 9A and 9B). Oooh - but you can't request it. Must be rare and well needed!! Not really. In fact, only 20 characters need Mk10 Blastechs for g11 - and outside of maybe Baze and Deathtrooper, the list read's like a "who needs a rework" post - IG100, Ewok Scout, Plo Koon, Pao, HRScout, Lumi, Tusken Shaman, etc.

    So what gear is left? The 8 MkVIII Nubians. Now, I want to be very clear about something. These actually are useful and desirable. By comparison, 93 characters need these puppies to make Mk12 Multi-tools. So these actually are a nice drop. Yep, I just included a compliment.

    Congrats. For finishing in the top 10 in the hardest, most team-work required content in the game (and being one of the stronger contributors) you just received 8 pieces of useful salvage! Go you!

    Oh and before someone says anything about the currency (again) - it should be noted that the increase in currency is between 30-45%, which will buy you 5 more salvage in the guild events store and about 10 more in the guild store. None of which gets us anywhere close to the previous rewards...even if we don't include the full g12 piece drops.





    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Nauros
    5429 posts Member
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    Broxxor wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Sonido wrote: »
    another example from T4 raid, took 3 days to kill
    mQjB1W.jpg

    the difficulty not worse the reward anymore, going to kill only T1 now

    You are aware that those 400 GET equal 5 G12 salvage of your choice (or some Hyoda or Wampa shards), right? That's not something to discount lightly. Also, almost double guild currency makes up for some of the gear as well, and the ability to choose which is important. I would say, from your pictures, that you break even.

    Not in the slightest.

    I would assume the Heroic raid is for end-game players who are looking for G12 gear (as in, gear to equip once you've achieved G12).

    That stuff has, for the most part, stopped dropping on new raid rewards. The money you get is enough (in this example) to net you 5 salvage for it. That means, it'll take approximately 12 raids to complete (using a lower tier piece of gear that requires 30 salvage of two different types). 12 raids for one gear piece is an insane grind.

    The guild store tokens are not usable for G12 gear, only some g11 gear and some of the lower gear from that. While it's useful - the extra 900 guild tokens there does not translate into much. In fact, it's approximately 10 salvage pieces of a G11 piece (i.e. gear equipped once you have g11 done). And the stuff you can get with it is all readily available from other sources (i.e. easy node farming, AAT raids).

    They're intentionally creating a gear wall for G12 gear here and then lying about a "net increase" using fuzzy math that includes gear that shouldn't be relevant in a high-end raid such as this.

    As I've said before - unless the gear in the Guild Events store is deeply discounted AND they add those G12 pieces to the guild store - then it won't be a net gain for the people who were running heroic.

    There's 0 reason to put forth the effort in the Sith raid outside of Traya. The amount of time spent doing this is ridiculous when the reward is taken into consideration.

    That example was T4, heroic is a completely different matter. They totally ruined the rewards there, on that we will agree.
  • Sonido
    81 posts Member
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    3 first places exactly the same reward
    Twr0Lq.jpg
  • Ace0187420
    104 posts Member
    edited April 2018
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    The rewards are absolutely trash. So not worth the time investment, nice job spreading your lies and insulting our intelligence by saying we are to dumb to realize the rewards are better. To watch the aggregate guild gp go up? It goes up all the time anyways so that not a metric to judge anything. Making the rewards even between guild members is also dumb, the guy posting 0 should get less than the top contributor he did less for it. It like saying the doctor who spent years in med school should split his pay evenly with the janitor cause they work at the same place. That's ridiculous.
  • Options
    Ace0187420 wrote: »
    It like saying the doctor who spent years in med school should split his pay evenly with the janitor cause they work at the same place. That's ridiculous.

    Perfect comment. Best I have seen!
  • Nauros
    5429 posts Member
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    .
    Ace0187420 wrote: »
    It like saying the doctor who spent years in med school should split his pay evenly with the janitor cause they work at the same place. That's ridiculous.

    Perfect comment. Best I have seen!

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/166194/democratizing-to-incentivize-an-alternative-story/p1 Here, have fun. Not sure where it is buried but I can still access it through my reply.
  • gufu21
    335 posts Member
    edited April 2018
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    I don't do heroic, so I won't comment on that much (other than to say that if the excessive full g12 pieces was really the problem, then maybe you should have toned down the chance of a full g12 and left the rest alone?).

    But here's the part I really don't get.

    Real problem in the game: It's very hard to motivate all guild members to participate in the STR. A lot of players just post zeroes or very little and don't contribute.

    Dev response: We're flattening the rewards so that every guild member gets the same amount of gear rewards regardless of contribution.

    What about this made any sense?
  • Options
    The announcement led us to believe everyone was going to see better rewards, and instead they seem to universally and obviously be much worse. My guild doesn't even do heroic but I just spent 5-6 days to get top 10 in my raid and got 19 total pieces I could have easily farmed in half that time. The part that is unacceptable is feeling like we were misled/lied to.

    Honestly if you would have said something like "we have noticed with the addition of a new raid people are getting so much gear they aren't buying it anymore, this is unsustainable for the game and therefore we are reducing the rewards for the long-term sake of the game" that would have been unfortunate but at least understandable (although you could supplement with meaningful currency and credits at least). The Sith raid is not fun but at least it was rewarding and getting good rewards for your hard work is fun. Now it is neither fun nor rewarding.
  • Mzee
    1777 posts Member
    edited April 2018
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    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    But it would have made more sense to "lower" the other rewards at the same time they introduced the new pieces.

    Sort of, but I'd also argue (just based on what people were reporting) that there were too many full G12 pieces being given out before the nerf. So it seems they course-corrected too far in the other direction.

    Agreed. I actually understand the need to cut back on the "full g12 piece for EVERYONE!" thing that was happening in regards to balance. And if they simply would have dropped that with a clear explanation that they had overtuned that drop rate, most of us would have been okay with it (maybe after a little grumbling ;) )

    Absolutely correct. This whole thing was packaged wrong, which caused this outrage reaction by the community.

    Yup. It was a textbook bait and switch. That's where the outrage is largely from. Not just that things were nerfed, but with the promise that things would be an improvement. Though, I have to admit that I can't judge on T6 and below as my guild had just turned heroic. Compared to previous raids it did feel like Heroic was very generous with rewards so I don't mind having it toned down a bit, but they went too far with it. The rewards for T6 were very low compared to the time and effort required, but not sure how those rewards have been changed now.
  • Broxxor
    595 posts Member
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    Mzee wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    But it would have made more sense to "lower" the other rewards at the same time they introduced the new pieces.

    Sort of, but I'd also argue (just based on what people were reporting) that there were too many full G12 pieces being given out before the nerf. So it seems they course-corrected too far in the other direction.

    Agreed. I actually understand the need to cut back on the "full g12 piece for EVERYONE!" thing that was happening in regards to balance. And if they simply would have dropped that with a clear explanation that they had overtuned that drop rate, most of us would have been okay with it (maybe after a little grumbling ;) )

    Absolutely correct. This whole thing was packaged wrong, which caused this outrage reaction by the community.

    Yup. It was a textbook bait and switch. That's where the outrage is largely from. Not just that things were nerfed, but with the promise that things would be an improvement. Though, I have to admit that I can't judge on T6 and below as my guild had just turned heroic. Compared to previous raids it did feel like Heroic was very generous with rewards so I don't mind having it toned down a bit, but they went too far with it. The rewards for T6 were very low compared to the time and effort required, but not sure how those rewards have been changed now.

    The premise for EA's train of thought is terrible here.

    They promised one thing, gave one thing - and people worked to build their rosters and spent real money (and real time) to get themselves in a position to contribute.

    Then they took it away (conveniently well beyond the Android refund window). And tried to excuse it and brush it off with vaguespeak and lies.

    It's fraud. Plain and simple.
  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
    Options
    Just for clarification for those tossing around legal terms. It could be considered fraud on some level, but it is definitely not bait and switch. It's just "switch" which really isn't a thing. Carry on.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Mzee
    1777 posts Member
    Options
    Broxxor wrote: »
    Mzee wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    But it would have made more sense to "lower" the other rewards at the same time they introduced the new pieces.

    Sort of, but I'd also argue (just based on what people were reporting) that there were too many full G12 pieces being given out before the nerf. So it seems they course-corrected too far in the other direction.

    Agreed. I actually understand the need to cut back on the "full g12 piece for EVERYONE!" thing that was happening in regards to balance. And if they simply would have dropped that with a clear explanation that they had overtuned that drop rate, most of us would have been okay with it (maybe after a little grumbling ;) )

    Absolutely correct. This whole thing was packaged wrong, which caused this outrage reaction by the community.

    Yup. It was a textbook bait and switch. That's where the outrage is largely from. Not just that things were nerfed, but with the promise that things would be an improvement. Though, I have to admit that I can't judge on T6 and below as my guild had just turned heroic. Compared to previous raids it did feel like Heroic was very generous with rewards so I don't mind having it toned down a bit, but they went too far with it. The rewards for T6 were very low compared to the time and effort required, but not sure how those rewards have been changed now.

    The premise for EA's train of thought is terrible here.

    They promised one thing, gave one thing - and people worked to build their rosters and spent real money (and real time) to get themselves in a position to contribute.

    Then they took it away (conveniently well beyond the Android refund window). And tried to excuse it and brush it off with vaguespeak and lies.

    It's fraud. Plain and simple.

    Didn't think about how this could have been planned at first, but this makes a lot of sense. Have overtuned rewards for a while with undertuned rewards for T6 and below to encourage people to spend money to get to heroic quicker. Rewards the P2P playerbase for a bit with the heroic guilds and then as the outrage mounts for how undertuned the rewards for T6 and below are they nerf the heroic rewards. I have a hard time believing that this was all merely just an oversight or accident.
  • WookieWookie
    1460 posts Member
    edited April 2018
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    Maegor wrote: »
    I compiled screen shots of the old raid rewards and the new raid rewards for the Heroic Sith Raid and came to the conclusions listed below.

    Sample Sizes of Old Drops:
    Rank 1-3: 20
    Rank 4-10: 14
    Rank 11-20: 13
    Rank 21-30: 16
    Rank 31-40: 13
    Rank 41-50: 11

    Sample Size of New Boxes: 31

    Assumptions: That in the new system all full pieces in the loot table have an equal chance of dropping, at both the 100% promised drop rate and the current and further down the line future.

    Clarifications: G12 GET piece cost = 5,600 GET. When rancor piece is talked about, I am using an mk3 carb as the baseline piece.

    Under the promised 100% drop rate in the new system:
    oaJfmvG.png
    • All ranks 15 or greater take a loss when pieces are converted to their GET and Guild Currency equivalent (cost to purchase from the store).
    • Ranks 16-30 are basically a wash on guild currency while taking about 1/3 of a g12 piece's value loss
    • Rank 31-40 are gaining 1/2 of a rancor piece from the guild store and losing about 1/3 of a g12 piece
    • Rank 41-50 are gaining about 3/4 of a rancor piece from the guild store and losing about 1/8 of a g12 piece
    • Total loss for the guild: GET = 106,939; Guild Currency = 726
    • Average loss per member: GET = 2,138; Guild Currency = 14

    Under the current and future planned 40% full piece drop rate:
    Guwu0Oq.png
    • All ranks taking a loss in GET and Guild Currency
    • Rank 1-3 are losing over a full piece of g12 gear (about 1.25 piece loss) and a little over 4 rancor pieces
    • Rank 3-10 are losing about 3/4 of a g12 piece and a little over 1.5 rancor pieces
    • Rank 11-20 are losing about half of a g12 piece and almost a full rancor piece
    • Rank 31-40 are losing about half of a g12 piece and about 1/3 of a rancor piece
    • Rank 41-50 are losing about 1/4 of a g12 piece and taking a small loss on guild currency equivalents
    • Total loss for the guild: GET = 148939; Guild Currency = 129,526
    • Average loss per member: GET = 2,978; Guild Currency = 2,590

    This certainly does not reflect how I interpret when @CG_Carrie said in an April 2 post that "Given the difficult of the raid, we will be increasing the rewards a bit" nor does it match "To our Heroic raiders: please take some time over the next couple of weeks and take a look at the aggregate GP lift among your guildmates... and the rate of growth in ALL players' ability to complete the raid, over the coming weeks". This represents a total loss for the guild in both scenarios, and the only gain can be seen in the 100% drop rate scenario for members that get rank 31+ (and even then only in guild currency since they are still losing GET equivalence).

    Now, we are getting g12.5 gear added and that loot will be added to the loot tables. The only way that gear being added makes up for the current losses in GET under the 40% full drop rate scenario (since they have been said to come at the same time in May) is if we a) get between 35 and 40 pieces of salvage AND b) it has the same GET cost as the current g12 gear. In my opinion, both of those are very unlikely.

    @CG_Carrie @CG_SaIera @CG_TopHat and any other CG employee that this is pertinent to, if you have any data that shows my tables above are incorrect please provide. Also, if you don't want to provide hard data, you can provide drop rates under the new loot system and old loot system and I will happily calculate the expected value of gains or losses for guilds and members.

    Getting into my personal opinion of the changes, I can understand if CG thinks the original boxes dropped too much loot. I can swallow that from a business perspective. What I can't quite comprehend are statements that this is better for our guilds in the long term, when it obviously isn't.

    I welcome any dev comments that challenges the validity of this analysis.

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  • Broxxor
    595 posts Member
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    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Just for clarification for those tossing around legal terms. It could be considered fraud on some level, but it is definitely not bait and switch. It's just "switch" which really isn't a thing. Carry on.

    It could be considered a bait and switch. They advertised one thing and people spent money expecting that - then changed it.

    Now, is it illegal? Probably not. They probably have something that you agree to when downloading the game that says you accept the risk of last minute changes and agree not to do anything about it.

    But that doesn't make it an honest move. I'm sure there is a large percent of the playerbase population that would NOT have spent money, spent time, put forth the effort, etc into developing teams for this raid had they known the payout would have been changed to what it is today.

    That's the definition of a bait and switch. They bait you to spend money/time/effort under the presumption that you'll be getting/working towards one thing - and then change it to something else. Same thing as you coming in under the premise of a car dealership claiming that they have your vehicle for you, you sign papers, set up payments, then they change it up at the last minute. Same concept.
  • Options
    @CG_Carrie

    Your comment,

    “However, in order for this to be true, it will require:
    • The value of Darth Traya to be realized...”

    has offended me. This statement implies that we, the player base, are not smart enough to realize Traya is valuable. I believe patronizing your customers, which has become more frequent as of late, is a disgraceful business model, as well as being generally unethical. If I have misinterpreted your intent of this statement, please clarify.
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