Follow up Update on Sith Raid Rewards - 4/12/18 [MEGA]



  • fomd01
    7 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    I dont write often as im french. But frustration in new reward is to high. No g12 gear.
    Do you really think we would enjoy a so big drop in raid reward?
  • They gonna send something out at close to the very end of the day and run from the office.
  • Ace0187420 wrote: »
    They gonna send something out at close to the very end of the day and run from the office.

    It is a Friday, and it has been their pattern.

    Absolutely would not shock me to see a drive-by.

    I only expect a post apologizing for the fact that Carrie won't prove us to us how the changes are better and that they will come next week (I am not even specifying Monday, that'd be too generous of me).
  • 26 min till 5 pm there.
  • AdlerCl
    43 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    They've told us to "wait and see". Last time they told us that was when they nerfed expose in all raids. That was an overreaction if I ever saw one and on a flagship toon no less.

    They will very likely make the exact same changes to the other raids because we are apparently incapable of grasping the "nuances" of the changes they make.

    I don't like don't like saying what I'm going to say next because it's based on a emotional reaction, but they think we're simple. If they don't think we are then they really need to change the way they talk to us. The so called nuances are a loss for us, not just those farming the heroic tier, but all of us.

    I was put in charge of the sith raid and I can no longer motivate the people in my guild to aspire to anything higher than tier 4. I think we may have to drop down to a lower tier just to make it easy enough for people to bother with the raid at all. Why should they bother farming the right teams and gearing them up when CG just ruined the rewards for everyone and cemented the gap the heroic rewards created indefinitely?

    This wasn't for the health if the game, it was for the health of EA's wallet. Now the whales have to buy gear and crystals again and the rest of us have to go about it the long way around if we ever get there.

    Now, they might tweak the changes a little and make this flattened system work out. I regularly place in one of the top spots of all the tiers we've taken on and I support the flattened rewards system because it helps the entire guild grow. We're a diverse bunch and some go in with perfectly decent teams for their level and just can't post any damage. This system gives them a shot at improving faster and becoming good contributors as we progress.

    They just need to improve the rewards for all tiers. One mystery box type up from what each tier has now. Make a new one for heroic that adequately compensate players for their trouble. Which this raid is nothing but really. Also boost the currency by 35-50% to make it commensurate to both the loss of gear and the difficulty of the raid.

    I think most of us would like to believe that CG will make meaningful improvements to the system they've just implemented, but their responses are simply the same as when they nerfed expose. We should wait and see and if we're still annoyed we can say something then. They bank on us forgetting that last step and will continue to do so.

    So here I am CG. I'm calling you out. I dislike the nerf to expose and I will dislike this system if it remains the way it is.

    Edit: Changed a relatively kind word for "mentally deficient" to "simple" since we're apparently not allowed to use the word "****."
  • Nikoms565
    10401 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Ace0187420 wrote: »
    They gonna send something out at close to the very end of the day and run from the office.

    It will probably be something like "After carefully reviewing...working as intended."

    And it will end with "Have a nice weekend!"
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: DeathStarVentDesigners - DVD for short.
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Phase 1 gets cleared quicker than phase 2 for our guild, that is the biggest time consumer for us. People are getting those resistance teams geared still, you can see the progress in the time it took to clear. Phoenix is the next big gear up for most of us.
    Still waiting on that edit forum profile setting so I can change my name...
  • G8Skittle5
    3 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Maegor wrote: »
    I compiled screen shots of the old raid rewards and the new raid rewards for the Heroic Sith Raid and came to the conclusions listed below.

    Sample Sizes of Old Drops:
    Rank 1-3: 20
    Rank 4-10: 14
    Rank 11-20: 13
    Rank 21-30: 16
    Rank 31-40: 13
    Rank 41-50: 11

    Sample Size of New Boxes: 31

    Assumptions: That in the new system all full pieces in the loot table have an equal chance of dropping, at both the 100% promised drop rate and the current and further down the line future.

    Clarifications: G12 GET piece cost = 5,600 GET. When rancor piece is talked about, I am using an mk3 carb as the baseline piece.

    Under the promised 100% drop rate in the new system:
    • All ranks 15 or greater take a loss when pieces are converted to their GET and Guild Currency equivalent (cost to purchase from the store).
    • Ranks 16-30 are basically a wash on guild currency while taking about 1/3 of a g12 piece's value loss
    • Rank 31-40 are gaining 1/2 of a rancor piece from the guild store and losing about 1/3 of a g12 piece
    • Rank 41-50 are gaining about 3/4 of a rancor piece from the guild store and losing about 1/8 of a g12 piece
    • Total loss for the guild: GET = 106,939; Guild Currency = 726
    • Average loss per member: GET = 2,138; Guild Currency = 14

    Under the current and future planned 40% full piece drop rate:
    • All ranks taking a loss in GET and Guild Currency
    • Rank 1-3 are losing over a full piece of g12 gear (about 1.25 piece loss) and a little over 4 rancor pieces
    • Rank 3-10 are losing about 3/4 of a g12 piece and a little over 1.5 rancor pieces
    • Rank 11-20 are losing about half of a g12 piece and almost a full rancor piece
    • Rank 31-40 are losing about half of a g12 piece and about 1/3 of a rancor piece
    • Rank 41-50 are losing about 1/4 of a g12 piece and taking a small loss on guild currency equivalents
    • Total loss for the guild: GET = 148939; Guild Currency = 129,526
    • Average loss per member: GET = 2,978; Guild Currency = 2,590

    This certainly does not reflect how I interpret when @CG_Carrie said in an April 2 post that "Given the difficult of the raid, we will be increasing the rewards a bit" nor does it match "To our Heroic raiders: please take some time over the next couple of weeks and take a look at the aggregate GP lift among your guildmates... and the rate of growth in ALL players' ability to complete the raid, over the coming weeks". This represents a total loss for the guild in both scenarios, and the only gain can be seen in the 100% drop rate scenario for members that get rank 31+ (and even then only in guild currency since they are still losing GET equivalence).

    Now, we are getting g12.5 gear added and that loot will be added to the loot tables. The only way that gear being added makes up for the current losses in GET under the 40% full drop rate scenario (since they have been said to come at the same time in May) is if we a) get between 35 and 40 pieces of salvage AND b) it has the same GET cost as the current g12 gear. In my opinion, both of those are very unlikely.

    @CG_Carrie @CG_SaIera @CG_TopHat and any other CG employee that this is pertinent to, if you have any data that shows my tables above are incorrect please provide. Also, if you don't want to provide hard data, you can provide drop rates under the new loot system and old loot system and I will happily calculate the expected value of gains or losses for guilds and members.

    Getting into my personal opinion of the changes, I can understand if CG thinks the original boxes dropped too much loot. I can swallow that from a business perspective. What I can't quite comprehend are statements that this is better for our guilds in the long term, when it obviously isn't.

    I welcome any dev comments that challenges the validity of this analysis.

    Reposting so it doesn’t get buried
  • Jabba
    1032 posts Member
    Were getting punked right ? This has to be some kind of sick joke. Endgame content deserves endgame rewards. People will quit and the people that will quit are the ones that support this game financially. Games at a critical point really hope they understand and roll this fiasco back permanently .
  • And, what's the poin of this follow up? we simply want things that already promised, not 1 page long follow up notes.
  • Here's the latest after all the backlash from @CG_Carrie :

    Hi everyone,
    After yesterday’s follow up post, intended to be clearer and more succinct (also based on feedback from foreign language users to be more direct), my intention was to show side by side comparisons of the Raid Rewards before/after in a post today.
    However, based on the response, instead of spending the time to craft further explanation, we are going to commit to sooner action instead. The rollback as outlined in the Update to Raid Reward Changes - 4/11/18 is being pulled in to mid-next week instead of up to two weeks as initially outlined. The makegood will follow.
    We are also reevaluating the rewards for the very top end #1-3 placing players in the HSTR in particular to ensure it is more commensurate with their level of effort. More info on that to come, however it will occur sometime after next week’s update.
    Have a great weekend, and I’ll see you on the holotables,
    Lead Producer,
  • The posted screenshots represent an incomplete picture? It says IN GAME that the prize box rewards 36 salvage with a chance at a crafted piece. That’s the full picture and that is INSANE in the context of the raid itself, let alone the context of the rewards we were getting last week. You can’t cut people’s rewards by a factor of 7-12, which is what the math shows. You want to cut our rewards by 30%? Fine, we all pay taxes, we know how that works. But what happens when people get taxed 60, 70, 84.5% (the difference between my rewards last week and this week)? Riots. Bring in a gaming psychologist, show him or her what you’ve done, and watch them laugh you out of the building.

    We don’t need to hear about ‘intentions of the changes’ or ‘the nuances’ of the changes. We can see the changes. We’re telling you in no uncertain terms that the changes are obscene. You’ve already had to post about this three times. By now you should see this is not a storm where you batten down the hatches and ride it out. It’s one where you need to evacuate. The fourth time you post should be, “we are rolling back the changes and we apologize.”

    You guys were doing so, SO well before yesterday. The game was in the best place it’s ever been in. Push the rollback button and go back to that. I don’t want this game to fall apart.
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