Follow up Update on Sith Raid Rewards - 4/12/18 [MEGA]

Replies

  • SmilinStonee
    178 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Absolutely do not implement these "improvements" to rewards of HAAT and HRancor. Only remove challenge gear and boost fully crafter gear chances. Nothing more.

    You set a goal post with this new raid, and able players met it. A gap was created by gear rewards. Now you bogged players by decreasing rewards. It does not in any way address the gap already created by previous rates, and by slowing the rest down, gap is only getting wider. I understand your need to please p2p with more content, but you are out of runway with the speed YOU(CG) chose. This mistake is on CG, not the players, yet the players are punished. For this to be truly fair, you either need to revert the rates, or take away already distributed gear. Besides, having this rate will not really matter to p2p since once they are maxed, that gear is only going to be catching dust just as thousands of other challenge gears. No amount of new content will slow p2p with these advantages, so i can see only further punishment for those who want to get to that level.
  • Olddumper
    2824 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Snake2 wrote: »
    @CG_Carrie I appreciate the effort you're expending, and what I say is truly with all due respect.

    Your entire argument has no legs to stand on. You say the previous rewards system was unhealthy for the game because the people completing heroic would get too much advantage from all the gear value received.

    Then you are trying to convince us the new rewards system gives more gear than the previous one (on a full guild level). If it's true (which it isn't without completely ignoring the inherent value of the gear, and focusing solely on number of pieces received I imagine.[side note, did you know 36 pennies is worth less than 2 quarters? But I digress])

    Anyway, if it's true that we're getting more now, how is that more healthy based on your previous assertion?

    Lol they must have hired a politician as a PM/PO. She is talking out both sides of her mouth.


    But might I add: an awful politician. A skilled one could have just said when the new level increase come out the current rewards break the balance of the game. We wouldn’t know any better.
  • adwar
    36 posts Member
    You are a liar and the people you work for a cheats.
  • Neo2551
    1822 posts Member
    @CG_Carrie by the way, I personally think you are doing a great job. We have a clear disagreement, but you are still doing a wonderful job.

    However trying to deceive a bunch of Star Wars passionate (aka probably number persons) is tough.
  • Ultra
    2549 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    However, many of the posted screenshots represent an incomplete picture of what the rewards will look like over the long run. Because there is a degree of chance involved, it is possible to see extreme swings in the before and after, despite that not being indicative of the average result.

    So literally everyone who cleared heroic since the content went live happened to be on the extreme swing. We cleared heroic today and I gotta say, I can get much much much better rewards by joining a Territory War and doing nothing and coming in second place, gear wise.
    The glaring exception that arose from this change was in the Sith Heroic Tier which over the long run is going to be among the most valuable set of rewards in the game. However, in order for this to be true, it will require:

    The value of Darth Traya to be realized
    The exclusive new Gear XII 5/6 pieces and
    Time for players to master the raid.

    Ummmm... In the long run the value of Darth Traya will be nullified. Her shards are only valuable in the short run. I think you really need to reconsider how far you are looking when it comes to the picture, and, honestly having the new G12 pieces added into the raid will NOT make the raid more valuable if nobody is going to be able to drop them.

    The promise of G12 gear is like being able to get 7 Carbanti drops in challenges but getting 3 drops most of the time. Funny how you never see the other extreme swing.
  • Banth
    158 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Thanks for doing this. It should be pinned at the top of everything. It’s laughable they tried to sell the obvious nerf as an increase in any way, shape or form. It’s also laughable their ‘proof’ is going to come from watching how much the guilds aggregate GP rises after the nerf. Like of course it’s going to still rise because people are going to play the game. But I guarantee you because, you know, common sense, that the GP gains would be much much more with the old drops. That’s obvious. And it’s incredible we even have to talk about this. And it’s offensive they think we’re too dumb not to see all of that.
  • All that work and the only useful thing I got was guild coins
  • @CG_Carrie,

    First and foremost, thanks for the apology. I feel it's heartfelt and sincere. I also want to thank you for the efforts you and your team are making to reach out to the community. Though there will likely continue to be some growing pains, please keep up the good work with this!

    As for rewards, if these new pieces are as groundbreaking as you are hyping them to be, I am really excited for the new content! However, data is data. One of the beautiful things about numbers, is that the language is universal. Once explanations are included, then data is no longer data, it's an argument. If you could provide us with data like mean, median, and mode for drop (quality and quantity) before and after the change, this would be ideal. This would show the community transparency, and not make us feel like we are being told how to feel about the change. This should ignore Traya shards, since her drop rate hasn't changed.

    Another thing I would like to touch on. Making changes this drastic, even in the name of progress, are hard pills to swallow. Many people have invested countless resources (time and money) chasing the rewards as they were, but now the reward structure has been change drastically (whether this is for the best or worst we'll have to wait and see.) This feels very similar to the catch all nerf with the on hit effects in P3 and P4 of STR (admittedly STH nerf was needed) and the nerf on JTR. Again, players invested heavily to have the deal altered.

    Lastly, I wanted to touch on your post from yesterday. I saw one of the best pieces of information published by your team in it! PERCENTAGES! You told us, unequivocally what a drop rate was. Of all the craziness that has occurred, this I applaud. Please give us more of this!!!

    Semper Fidelis,
    SGT McPass
  • @CG_Carrie "Because there is a degree of chance involved, it is possible to see extreme swings in the before and after, despite that not being indicative of the average result."

    The problem is, that degree of chance is dramatically weighted towards G10 gear you can't even complete the raid with. Those are good for the requirements of the heroic Sith raid, not the requirements of Heroic Pit.

    Either way, not only has the even concept of "trust" when it comes to CG's management of the game been completely shattered.. not the first time, but definitely one of the most egregious shatterings to date, but I think you'll find that the majority of the people most affected are also where you're going to see your biggest attrition rates for the 2nd quarter 2018.

    In fact, as much care as you put into you communications, you always leave out the salient downside details. This has been a bit of a pattern of late.

    I get it's part of the requirements of the job, but what's not are these things:

    * Releasing something for a month or so, everyone scrambling and spending money to meet the requirements, whether it's to stay in their guild, or to complete the content for the great rewards.

    * Once the majority of that activity is over, nerfing the rewards so dramatically that it complete negates any possibility of realizing the benefits, which hits the players who "just caught up" the most, aka the middle class.

    Dingo



  • Ploosh
    565 posts Member
    Wow this is absolutely amazing. Wonderful analysis and numbers. While I have certainly agreed with everyone about how painful this nerf is, this is clearly showing that the basis for their statements that this would help the guild as a whole, were clearly in direct opposition to the reality.

    My guild is currently running t5 (capable of t6 if we tried) with everyone just autoing their squads each day cuz it's not worth the time. The only Rey of sunshine has been knowing that eventually (3-6 months once they release more viable toons) we would be able to get heroic, and have those wonderful g12 drops we've been seeing everyone. At this point heroic doesn't ever seem like it will be worth it. Especially since by the time we get Traya, there should be another hard counter to her, and gear isn't remotely worth it now.

    And all this garbage right after they bought me back from MSF with all their communication. Uhg.
  • Banth
    158 posts Member
    Neo2551 wrote: »

    Get back to 100% on the full pieces, it won’t break your economy and make everyone happy.

    Just a heads up. The previous rewards weren’t 100%. I went three heroics in a row not getting a fully crafted piece. It’s possible it was a glitch (wouldn’t surprise me in the least). And if so I’d make a support ticket if I thought they’d help at all. But we all know the quality of CS...
  • lesismore
    59 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    I appreciate the efforts you made to communicate with us, particularly this much shorter version comparing to your previous posts, I actually finished reading this post, but I didn't find any useful information in the post: I could summarise your post in just one sentence: you are all wrong and we are doing this for your long term wellbeing :D
  • Wow. This quite an undertaking. Hopefully the data that can be collected during the few days of reverted rates (if they are truly reverted) will give this some more meaning. Really would love to see a clear dev response here.
  • Drim
    70 posts Member
    Basic Game design you guys have no idea what damage you’ve done. I hope you think it’s worth it and good luck.
  • From one nerd to another, nice work.
    Still waiting on that edit forum profile setting so I can change my name...
  • Maegor
    1217 posts Member
    Ploosh wrote: »
    Wow this is absolutely amazing. Wonderful analysis and numbers. While I have certainly agreed with everyone about how painful this nerf is, this is clearly showing that the basis for their statements that this would help the guild as a whole, were clearly in direct opposition to the reality.

    My guild is currently running t5 (capable of t6 if we tried) with everyone just autoing their squads each day cuz it's not worth the time. The only Rey of sunshine has been knowing that eventually (3-6 months once they release more viable toons) we would be able to get heroic, and have those wonderful g12 drops we've been seeing everyone. At this point heroic doesn't ever seem like it will be worth it. Especially since by the time we get Traya, there should be another hard counter to her, and gear isn't remotely worth it now.

    And all this garbage right after they bought me back from MSF with all their communication. Uhg.

    1) I've advocated that the health of t6 and below needs to be reduced by a significant chunk - at least 25%. Here's something people may not know - we are finding out that guilds that can clear heroic in 4 hours or less need a reset to clear a t6. And I mean need a reset. They literally can't clear a t6 without it.

    2) I honestly think that if you zeta Traya's unique, then her hard counters are already in the meta. Against a zEP team that uses vader, your first 5 moves will give the enemy team 15-25% TM each time one of your characters take a turn.

    3) Tbf, excluding graphics, MSF and this game are the same game. The question is are you bigger SW or bigger Marvel fan boy? And from what I hear, it isn't like MSF's devs are breaking down barriers when it comes to communication.

    I actually really like Carrie's post tonight and look forward to the information she said would be coming.
  • Xerrath
    154 posts Member
    I get people are mad but I think everyone needs to take a step back. This is the first time in a long time that cg has been taking steps to actively communicate with the community on the topics we are passionate about.

    Now I get the new rewards suck (no one can argue this) but I do think we need to maybe wait a few days to see how things are adjusted.

    From being a long term wow player the devs will NEVER please everyone it’s not possible. But I for one am happy to see communication. We can improve upon the bad with communication.
  • Nikoms565
    10401 posts Member
    lesismore wrote: »
    I appreciate the efforts you made to communicate with us, particularly this much shorter version comparing to your previous posts, I actually finished reading this post, but I didn't find any useful information in the post: I could summarise your post in just one sentence: you are all wrong and we are doing this for your long term wellbeing :D

    I was thinking the Old Ben quote in regards to the raid rewards..."Your eyes can deceive you...don't trust them."
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: DeathStarVentDesigners - DVD for short.
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • lesismore
    59 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Stop complaining and doing the math! Didn't you guys read her latest post, she said these changes are purely for our long term wellbeing :D
  • SmilinStonee
    178 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    STRaid rewards redistribution is proof of why socialism does not work.
  • scuba
    12101 posts Member
    Xerrath wrote: »
    I get people are mad but I think everyone needs to take a step back. This is the first time in a long time that cg has been taking steps to actively communicate with the community on the topics we are passionate about.

    Now I get the new rewards suck (no one can argue this) but I do think we need to maybe wait a few days to see how things are adjusted.

    From being a long term wow player the devs will NEVER please everyone it’s not possible. But I for one am happy to see communication. We can improve upon the bad with communication.
    Go read the first post. It will be weeks! I actually have my doubts it will even happen then. My guess is in 2 weeks they will just add the G12 5/6 to raid and be done.
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