Even after a couple weeks, things are still wonky.
Biggs and Slave 1 are still broken, big time. Just in the last couple days I've seen Slave 1 use his basic to shoot through foresight (I literally just did Tie Fighter's special to gain foresight - and no it wasn't against Slave 1 that had retribution and shot him before it went up. he didn't have any buffs up), the AI's Biggs still reapplies his Taunt AFTER Tie Advanced removes it (sure wish MY Biggs would do that, funny it only happens on an AI Biggs) and Slave 1 is still shooting around taunts. They seem to be the most overly broken ships in 2.0 that I can tell. (AI Biggs has even one shot a couple of my ships that were at full health.)
The AI is still getting one shot criticals, while my ships criticals (even with equivalent levels and skills) are crap. AI ships are regularly hitting my ships with non-crit attacks that hit for more than my ships' criticals are hitting for. Even with Offense up, my ships are rarely hitting for the 70-80K the AI hits for. Along with the amount of times criticals are being slung at me by the AI.
The AI still "digs itself out of a hole". Even if I have 4 ships to 2, in just a couple turns it becomes 1 ship vs 3 or even 4.
Your AI still cheats, still gives itself better odds, ignores the rules we have to follow, etc etc. Just getting irritating seeing common responses to ship issues and a lack of real response of "yeah, we broke ships and we're working to fix them, especially all the bugs that we added by putting it out so quickly and before PVE Ships table implementation, etc etc."
If you put something on a freakin single hard node, and make people farm it for months and/or pay crystals for it, then for Gods sake dont you ever, ever, ever, nerf it.
Its the worst thing you could ever do from a public relations point of view.
People actually paid with their money and/or time to get it and they dont care whats written in the game rules about changing stuff.
Respect your player is the first rule of game making, unless you want to play it alone eventually.
Ah yeah 55 pages. Basically, from this sample of users and 55 pages:
-People are mad that ships they built into aren't being used in their arena shards (or actually aren't as good as they used to be, point for point).
-People prefer the old coin flip to a rock paper scissors set up
-and a few people like it.
I like getting rid of coin-flip, I have some ships I also wish were as robust as they felt in the old school, and as always, I'm so curious for the in-game numbers for ship activity. Such an interesting dynamic. Wondering what might change in the next few months as a result of our feedback.
Good work, everyone: lot's of good feedback here.
EDIT: aaaand reinforcement material is the new carbanti 3s.
Its still a coin flip, same speed Tarkins, whoever goes first wins. Same speed Chimera's, whoever goes first wins, same speed biggs, whoever goes first wins, same speed Vaders, whoever goes first wins.
Whoever's TFP TL's first wins. Rng wins. There is no "old coin flip" ships was better before the changes. There was actual diversity.
Peoples complaints are much more diverse and factual then what you stated, there is less diversity. There is much much more RNG. There was massive ship nerfs to ships that should be strong. There was no change only buffs to biggs which makes it more rng. 3v3 makes it more rng, tfp dodge nerf makes it more rng, every single change they did made it more rng.
Including a AI that seems to be better then before to the point that it twists every fight in its favour. Its easier for me to win on defence then offence with my same ships cause of this. The same people I have trouble with attacking I win almost 100% of the time on defence.
If you put something on a freakin single hard node, and make people farm it for months and/or pay crystals for it, then for Gods sake dont you ever, ever, ever, nerf it.
Its the worst thing you could ever do from a public relations point of view.
People actually paid with their money and/or time to get it and they dont care whats written in the game rules about changing stuff.
Respect your player is the first rule of game making, unless you want to play it alone eventually.
Big truth. As a f2p player i farmed hard for TIE Reaper. I dont have it at 7*, but it made an instant impact on my ship roster, and helped me climb up in ranks big time. Now its garbage. You are forced to get new ships, new pilots, gearing, leveling, shard farming. It feels like you just unlocked ships.
If you put something on a freakin single hard node, and make people farm it for months and/or pay crystals for it, then for Gods sake dont you ever, ever, ever, nerf it.
Its the worst thing you could ever do from a public relations point of view.
People actually paid with their money and/or time to get it and they dont care whats written in the game rules about changing stuff.
Respect your player is the first rule of game making, unless you want to play it alone eventually.
Big truth. As a f2p player i farmed hard for TIE Reaper. I dont have it at 7*, but it made an instant impact on my ship roster, and helped me climb up in ranks big time. Now its garbage. You are forced to get new ships, new pilots, gearing, leveling, shard farming. It feels like you just unlocked ships.
So, in other words, it's like any other meta change. Except this time the meta changed to a dozen characters and ships that were already extant, instead of releasing a dozen new ships you have to pay for.
If you put something on a freakin single hard node, and make people farm it for months and/or pay crystals for it, then for Gods sake dont you ever, ever, ever, nerf it.
Its the worst thing you could ever do from a public relations point of view.
People actually paid with their money and/or time to get it and they dont care whats written in the game rules about changing stuff.
Respect your player is the first rule of game making, unless you want to play it alone eventually.
Big truth. As a f2p player i farmed hard for TIE Reaper. I dont have it at 7*, but it made an instant impact on my ship roster, and helped me climb up in ranks big time. Now its garbage. You are forced to get new ships, new pilots, gearing, leveling, shard farming. It feels like you just unlocked ships.
So, in other words, it's like any other meta change. Except this time the meta changed to a dozen characters and ships that were already extant, instead of releasing a dozen new ships you have to pay for.
I think the real complain on Reaper is that is was a very hard ship to acquire and it was nerfed way too much. It's useless now. Zaul, Nhilus, etc. are still useful in the game, just not for holding #1 in arena now. The complaint isn't really that Reaper isn't as good as it was, the complaint is that Reaper is now utterly useless.
The challenges are way to hard in ships 2.0. I can't complete the 5 Star challenges for any capitals, and I can't complete tier III of the ship enhancement droids challenge when it states, "Recommended level 72+ Ships 4 Star or higher"
I am using Ghost level 82 7 star, Phantom II level 82 6 star, Biggs level 82 5 star, Slave 1 level 75 five star, TIE Adv level 71 5 star and the pilots for these ships are among my biggest investments thus far (G10/G9, 7 star, level 82, many have maxed 5 dot mods)
I don't think it should be this difficult, please rebalance the challenges.
Your AI still cheats, still gives itself better odds, ignores the rules we have to follow, etc etc. Just getting irritating seeing common responses to ship issues and a lack of real response of "yeah, we broke ships and we're working to fix them, especially all the bugs that we added by putting it out so quickly and before PVE Ships table implementation, etc etc."
that....
It was fine in 5v5 because you could overcome bad luck. The built in AI advantage is no longer needed
I have participated in the ship arena every day since it started. When facing another maxed out team, prior to 2.0 it was about 50% strategy and 50% random luck. Since 2.0 it feels like it is about 95% luck based.
I fight the exact same people using the exact same teams every day. Using the exact same strategy, sometimes I blow them away, sometimes they blow me away. It is all random. It doesn't matter if it is defense or offense. Ships 2.0 is not fun and completely pointless in terms of any kind of value in gameplay or strategy.
Sorry, but I have no idea how you can improve it. You went way to long without any kind of expansion and it is way too flat at the top.
I would like to know why we are able to extend a friend invite to everyone we fight in regular arena and we are not allowed to do that in fleet arena. Can you explain this?
I fight the exact same people using the exact same teams every day. Using the exact same strategy, sometimes I blow them away, sometimes they blow me away. It is all random. It doesn't matter if it is defense or offense. Ships 2.0 is not fun and completely pointless in terms of any kind of value in gameplay or strategy.
Know your strategy on how to take out the opponent's Biggs and then the rest of the ships--which is no different than how it was before the rework, except for there being LESS RNG thanks to there being less ships.
Speaking of, nothing I do in ships has to do with luck nor RNG. I have figured out the order in which to attack and how to most effectively maximize my damage while doing it--while also keeping my team alive. I then execute that 5-10 times a day in the fleet arena and get my payout.
All this is not to say that I don't think that Trawn's ship is ridiculous, but otherwise, this is not hard, people. Get a grip and stop embarrassing yourselves.
I'm thinking that at least 75% of us are rolling our eyes at your statistical analysis, maybe even 175% of us....
As I mentioned to another chap, prove it. Where are your videos of this posted for us to see?
Know your strategy on how to take out the opponent's Biggs and then the rest of the ships--which is no different than how it was before the rework, except for there being LESS RNG thanks to there being less ships.
Speaking of, nothing I do in ships has to do with luck nor RNG. I have figured out the order in which to attack and how to most effectively maximize my damage while doing it--while also keeping my team alive. I then execute that 5-10 times a day in the fleet arena and get my payout.
All this is not to say that I don't think that Trawn's ship is ridiculous, but otherwise, this is not hard, people. Get a grip and stop embarrassing yourselves.
I'm thinking that at least 75% of us are rolling our eyes at your statistical analysis, maybe even 175% of us....
As I mentioned to another chap, prove it. Where are your videos of this posted for us to see?
I very much agree with you whatelse.
So far, I guess you could say I’ve been “defending” the update, but this is just wrong. Have you ever even played the game capsular? RNG is in every aspect.
Before I even think about believing you, I would need to know your team.
Know your strategy on how to take out the opponent's Biggs and then the rest of the ships--which is no different than how it was before the rework, except for there being LESS RNG thanks to there being less ships.
Speaking of, nothing I do in ships has to do with luck nor RNG. I have figured out the order in which to attack and how to most effectively maximize my damage while doing it--while also keeping my team alive. I then execute that 5-10 times a day in the fleet arena and get my payout.
All this is not to say that I don't think that Trawn's ship is ridiculous, but otherwise, this is not hard, people. Get a grip and stop embarrassing yourselves.
Know your strategy on how to take out the opponent's Biggs and then the rest of the ships--which is no different than how it was before the rework, except for there being LESS RNG thanks to there being less ships.
Speaking of, nothing I do in ships has to do with luck nor RNG. I have figured out the order in which to attack and how to most effectively maximize my damage while doing it--while also keeping my team alive. I then execute that 5-10 times a day in the fleet arena and get my payout.
All this is not to say that I don't think that Trawn's ship is ridiculous, but otherwise, this is not hard, people. Get a grip and stop embarrassing yourselves.
I've actually been trying to think of the best way to put this for some time. I do not like Ships 2.0. I haven't been playing this game super long (about 6 months) and, due to family/work/money constraints can't dedicate myself to it the way some can. I can live with being a Guild-less, low level (4,000-ish) Squad arena, pretty much Free-to-Play person. One of the things I thought I was genuinely progressing well with was my fleet battles. Again, I was a fairly low level player (Generally around 200 or so) but I was happy with my lot. I was learning strategies and expanding my view away from just collecting characters and levelling them up as I saw fit. That's the way I played the game and, pretty much, will continue to do. Since Ships 2.0 arrived the unfair advantage, i.e. RNG, the AI has has increased and the decrease in starting numbers has taken away any margin for error. Yes, there'll be those that'll say "Sucks to be you. Get good." but this ignores the essential point of my rambling, people without the time and money to buy their way to success are being penalised more than usual for doing so. Yes, I've changed my squads around and, on a rare occasion, actually win a match but I don't put this down to me as my opponents are invariably the same and their squadrons change little.
I always shake my head when something new is added to this game, or something changes. So many player jump to analyze it and subsequently trash it before even giving it a fair chance.
In ships 1.0 I started early and did some minor whaling to get to top 3 in the fleet arena daily for about 6 months. Then I totally lost interest, as the battles were boring, repetitive, long and RNGfests. I still kept myself in the top 50, but often would only do 1 or 2 battles a day.
Ships 2.0 has totally refreshed the game mode in my eyes. I use all my battles each day, have adjusted my strategies, and now push for top 5 in my shard assuming I don't drop too far overnight. The battles are much quicker if you do it right. Any RNG woes in 2.0 can probably be attributed to the composition of your fleet. I personally see significantly less RNG involved in my fights. It still happen, sure, but not as often I've found.
So count me as a big fan of ships 2.0, I'm anxious to see the PVE environments and how that will work.
Ships 2.0 didnt refresh anything unless your on a new shard,try a different ship on my shard and your guaranteed to drop 30-40 spots because you instantly become a target Good luck climbing back up the ladder because the Target lock RNG is total garbage,i might win 1 match out of 5.CG is sucking the fun out of the game for day 1 players,I guess more money to make on noobs but day 1 players would chase the new shiny thing and spend money,not this guy anymore....
Big difference between newer players and shards verse older shards/vet players.
And if, you know, one of those people ~300th place... you don't have the same authority or experience as people playing top 10... or even top 10.
None of it really matter in terms of none of the devs reasons for going to 3 v 3 ever panned out. And now more and more issues are turning up... as mentioned - the cost of losing a ship battle in TW is now WAY more costly. If you have to go in against 4 or even 5 ships and no matter what you do you can only go in with 3, the difficulty has been cranked all the way up then.
Same for TB - smaller guild got a middle finger - and really, any smaller player got one in general. I don't really care, I beat all the ship battles in TB this last time - but it's an issue for some of my guildies and for a large part of the player base
Sorry... do I think either of those things were thought through prior? No, no I don't.
Then you and Fiddle are both in relatively young shards. And that seems to be the theme here.... Newer players or people who gave up on ships early (were hanging in the 150+ range) seem to like it because you can compete now. Whereas old shards/really competitive shards and mature accounts who had all the toys when 2.0 launched and were ranking high in ships 1.0 (because we were aggressive in leveling our ships/pilots from the beginning) are by and large are unhappy with ships 2.0.
RNG plays such a ridiculous role in the outcome at this level with only the 3 starting ships. Honestly happy for you that it's not such a factor where you're at, but in my shard against all the other 385-415K ship squads it's huge and incredibly annoying. I just did two battles against the same guy... first one I crushed him, next one he crushed me. I never mind a tough battle, but when the fight is basically decided in the first 5 moves... that's frustrating and not fun win or lose.
Also... maybe chill out on calling everyone whiners. The complaints/frustration venting is totally valid. This is a forum. For feedback. On a game. (Specifically the people you called out too - there have of course been some ridiculous extremes) I'm a real mixed bag on these changes. I really dislike the hard nerfs on Silencer Reaper and ITF, really dislike the 3v3 start. LOVE reinforcement abilities and what they bring to the battle and have been asking for a PVE table since ships were first launched so looking forward to that as well. Would love a ships-centric raid while we're at it... just not 3v3 please. If we could go back to 5v5 across all modes, I think that would mitigate a lot of the RNG complaints. It's FLEET battles after all, not DOGFIGHTS.
What's going to happen in PVE table if it's 3v3? Are you only going to get 3* if your starting 3 are still alive? So we'll almost certainly never get to sim those battles? How is 3* going to be possible unless they make all those battles cakewalks? And who wants a whole table of cake? Wait... nevermind that last.
@capsular So, I think maybe the perspective is a little different for people that were in the top of their arena shard as opposed to those, like you, who are not. Having worked diligently to develop a fleet that was easy to win with and difficult to beat, only to have that work undone by a single update is a bit disconcerting. (It's actually a pretty significant violation of trust between the player and the game maker, but that's a different topic).
That said, people that were operating in the meta (you know, seven star capital ships and such) have a pretty adverse reaction to this update as it negates a lot of the work they had done (and in some cases, money they had spent). People that were not for whatever reason, maybe because they ran a 6* Home One, and now find themselves performing better around payout time (right place, right time?) generally like and defend the update.
I'm not saying that Ships 2.0 is the best update CG has ever come up with but after putting some thoughts in my attack strategy, fleet fights have become much faster and less RNG dependent for me. I do win >90% of my fleet arena fights including those against whales with twice my GP and nearly all ships and pilots maxed (including Geonosians). Prior to ships 2.0 I had to use all 5 attempts and sometimes buy a refresh to finish top 5. Now I'm #1 on payout consistently without having to buy a refresh. Yes, my shard may be younger but most of the relevant ships and pilots are 7* G11-12 within top 20.
3 vs 3 is of course far more RND dependent than 5 vs 5 if you rely on TL like everyone used to before the update. I can only repeat what Pseudot said, stop relying on TL mechanics if you don't like that sort of lottery. If I do lose a battle it usually was very bad luck with critical hits and not related to TL. I'm not eager to explain my whole strategy here but I'm using Executrix and do not use Boba as first reinforcement.
Replies
Biggs and Slave 1 are still broken, big time. Just in the last couple days I've seen Slave 1 use his basic to shoot through foresight (I literally just did Tie Fighter's special to gain foresight - and no it wasn't against Slave 1 that had retribution and shot him before it went up. he didn't have any buffs up), the AI's Biggs still reapplies his Taunt AFTER Tie Advanced removes it (sure wish MY Biggs would do that, funny it only happens on an AI Biggs) and Slave 1 is still shooting around taunts. They seem to be the most overly broken ships in 2.0 that I can tell. (AI Biggs has even one shot a couple of my ships that were at full health.)
The AI is still getting one shot criticals, while my ships criticals (even with equivalent levels and skills) are crap. AI ships are regularly hitting my ships with non-crit attacks that hit for more than my ships' criticals are hitting for. Even with Offense up, my ships are rarely hitting for the 70-80K the AI hits for. Along with the amount of times criticals are being slung at me by the AI.
The AI still "digs itself out of a hole". Even if I have 4 ships to 2, in just a couple turns it becomes 1 ship vs 3 or even 4.
Your AI still cheats, still gives itself better odds, ignores the rules we have to follow, etc etc. Just getting irritating seeing common responses to ship issues and a lack of real response of "yeah, we broke ships and we're working to fix them, especially all the bugs that we added by putting it out so quickly and before PVE Ships table implementation, etc etc."
@CG_SBCrumb
Just one thing about the ships 2.0
If you put something on a freakin single hard node, and make people farm it for months and/or pay crystals for it, then for Gods sake dont you ever, ever, ever, nerf it.
Its the worst thing you could ever do from a public relations point of view.
People actually paid with their money and/or time to get it and they dont care whats written in the game rules about changing stuff.
Respect your player is the first rule of game making, unless you want to play it alone eventually.
Its still a coin flip, same speed Tarkins, whoever goes first wins. Same speed Chimera's, whoever goes first wins, same speed biggs, whoever goes first wins, same speed Vaders, whoever goes first wins.
Whoever's TFP TL's first wins. Rng wins. There is no "old coin flip" ships was better before the changes. There was actual diversity.
Peoples complaints are much more diverse and factual then what you stated, there is less diversity. There is much much more RNG. There was massive ship nerfs to ships that should be strong. There was no change only buffs to biggs which makes it more rng. 3v3 makes it more rng, tfp dodge nerf makes it more rng, every single change they did made it more rng.
Including a AI that seems to be better then before to the point that it twists every fight in its favour. Its easier for me to win on defence then offence with my same ships cause of this. The same people I have trouble with attacking I win almost 100% of the time on defence.
Big truth. As a f2p player i farmed hard for TIE Reaper. I dont have it at 7*, but it made an instant impact on my ship roster, and helped me climb up in ranks big time. Now its garbage. You are forced to get new ships, new pilots, gearing, leveling, shard farming. It feels like you just unlocked ships.
So, in other words, it's like any other meta change. Except this time the meta changed to a dozen characters and ships that were already extant, instead of releasing a dozen new ships you have to pay for.
I think the real complain on Reaper is that is was a very hard ship to acquire and it was nerfed way too much. It's useless now. Zaul, Nhilus, etc. are still useful in the game, just not for holding #1 in arena now. The complaint isn't really that Reaper isn't as good as it was, the complaint is that Reaper is now utterly useless.
I am using Ghost level 82 7 star, Phantom II level 82 6 star, Biggs level 82 5 star, Slave 1 level 75 five star, TIE Adv level 71 5 star and the pilots for these ships are among my biggest investments thus far (G10/G9, 7 star, level 82, many have maxed 5 dot mods)
I don't think it should be this difficult, please rebalance the challenges.
that....
It was fine in 5v5 because you could overcome bad luck. The built in AI advantage is no longer needed
I fight the exact same people using the exact same teams every day. Using the exact same strategy, sometimes I blow them away, sometimes they blow me away. It is all random. It doesn't matter if it is defense or offense. Ships 2.0 is not fun and completely pointless in terms of any kind of value in gameplay or strategy.
Sorry, but I have no idea how you can improve it. You went way to long without any kind of expansion and it is way too flat at the top.
I would like to know why we are able to extend a friend invite to everyone we fight in regular arena and we are not allowed to do that in fleet arena. Can you explain this?
Your.
Team.
Prove it. Where are your videos of this posted for us to review?
I'm thinking that at least 75% of us are rolling our eyes at your statistical analysis, maybe even 175% of us....
As I mentioned to another chap, prove it. Where are your videos of this posted for us to see?
I very much agree with you whatelse.
So far, I guess you could say I’ve been “defending” the update, but this is just wrong. Have you ever even played the game capsular? RNG is in every aspect.
Before I even think about believing you, I would need to know your team.
And what GP are you at?
1.4m
In ships 1.0 I started early and did some minor whaling to get to top 3 in the fleet arena daily for about 6 months. Then I totally lost interest, as the battles were boring, repetitive, long and RNGfests. I still kept myself in the top 50, but often would only do 1 or 2 battles a day.
Ships 2.0 has totally refreshed the game mode in my eyes. I use all my battles each day, have adjusted my strategies, and now push for top 5 in my shard assuming I don't drop too far overnight. The battles are much quicker if you do it right. Any RNG woes in 2.0 can probably be attributed to the composition of your fleet. I personally see significantly less RNG involved in my fights. It still happen, sure, but not as often I've found.
So count me as a big fan of ships 2.0, I'm anxious to see the PVE environments and how that will work.
And if, you know, one of those people ~300th place... you don't have the same authority or experience as people playing top 10... or even top 10.
None of it really matter in terms of none of the devs reasons for going to 3 v 3 ever panned out. And now more and more issues are turning up... as mentioned - the cost of losing a ship battle in TW is now WAY more costly. If you have to go in against 4 or even 5 ships and no matter what you do you can only go in with 3, the difficulty has been cranked all the way up then.
Same for TB - smaller guild got a middle finger - and really, any smaller player got one in general. I don't really care, I beat all the ship battles in TB this last time - but it's an issue for some of my guildies and for a large part of the player base
Sorry... do I think either of those things were thought through prior? No, no I don't.
Stop relying on the target lock mechanic. There are other ways to play now that work much better
Then you and Fiddle are both in relatively young shards. And that seems to be the theme here.... Newer players or people who gave up on ships early (were hanging in the 150+ range) seem to like it because you can compete now. Whereas old shards/really competitive shards and mature accounts who had all the toys when 2.0 launched and were ranking high in ships 1.0 (because we were aggressive in leveling our ships/pilots from the beginning) are by and large are unhappy with ships 2.0.
RNG plays such a ridiculous role in the outcome at this level with only the 3 starting ships. Honestly happy for you that it's not such a factor where you're at, but in my shard against all the other 385-415K ship squads it's huge and incredibly annoying. I just did two battles against the same guy... first one I crushed him, next one he crushed me. I never mind a tough battle, but when the fight is basically decided in the first 5 moves... that's frustrating and not fun win or lose.
Also... maybe chill out on calling everyone whiners. The complaints/frustration venting is totally valid. This is a forum. For feedback. On a game. (Specifically the people you called out too - there have of course been some ridiculous extremes) I'm a real mixed bag on these changes. I really dislike the hard nerfs on Silencer Reaper and ITF, really dislike the 3v3 start. LOVE reinforcement abilities and what they bring to the battle and have been asking for a PVE table since ships were first launched so looking forward to that as well. Would love a ships-centric raid while we're at it... just not 3v3 please. If we could go back to 5v5 across all modes, I think that would mitigate a lot of the RNG complaints. It's FLEET battles after all, not DOGFIGHTS.
What's going to happen in PVE table if it's 3v3? Are you only going to get 3* if your starting 3 are still alive? So we'll almost certainly never get to sim those battles? How is 3* going to be possible unless they make all those battles cakewalks? And who wants a whole table of cake? Wait... nevermind that last.
That said, people that were operating in the meta (you know, seven star capital ships and such) have a pretty adverse reaction to this update as it negates a lot of the work they had done (and in some cases, money they had spent). People that were not for whatever reason, maybe because they ran a 6* Home One, and now find themselves performing better around payout time (right place, right time?) generally like and defend the update.
3 vs 3 is of course far more RND dependent than 5 vs 5 if you rely on TL like everyone used to before the update. I can only repeat what Pseudot said, stop relying on TL mechanics if you don't like that sort of lottery. If I do lose a battle it usually was very bad luck with critical hits and not related to TL. I'm not eager to explain my whole strategy here but I'm using Executrix and do not use Boba as first reinforcement.