I just foolishly think an arena is a meritocracy - let's leave it there from me!
The issue is that anyone can win on offense - even "inferior" teams. So it has little to do with merit, ability, who has spent the most money, etc. and ends up boiling down to who can be stuck to their phone for 30 minutes prior to their respective payout...which, for many people is right around dinner/time with family.
You are, of course, free to play as you see fit and from whatever point of view you prefer. I prefer to treat others as I would like to be treated - that is, not mess with them if at all possible, and allowing them to get maximum rewards, as I hope to do.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
I just foolishly think an arena is a meritocracy - let's leave it there from me!
The issue is that anyone can win on offense - even "inferior" teams. So it has little to do with merit, ability, who has spent the most money, etc. and ends up boiling down to who can be stuck to their phone for 30 minutes prior to their respective payout...which, for many people is right around dinner/time with family.
You are, of course, free to play as you see fit and from whatever point of view you prefer. I prefer to treat others as I would like to be treated - that is, not mess with them if at all possible, and allowing them to get maximum rewards, as I hope to do.
A lot of people's starting point seems to be that I aim to "mess with them" and I'm the one who is somehow morally objectionable. It's not! I simply play the game. It's these groups that artificially manipulate the rankings, even if it's supposedly beneficial who are doing the messing. It would be easy for me to infer from your comments that you accuse me of treating others shoddily just by virtue of wanting my rank to be as high as possible at any given time of day. I know that's not your intention, but that's how many of these comments read.
I just foolishly think an arena is a meritocracy - let's leave it there from me!
The issue is that anyone can win on offense - even "inferior" teams. So it has little to do with merit, ability, who has spent the most money, etc. and ends up boiling down to who can be stuck to their phone for 30 minutes prior to their respective payout...which, for many people is right around dinner/time with family.
You are, of course, free to play as you see fit and from whatever point of view you prefer. I prefer to treat others as I would like to be treated - that is, not mess with them if at all possible, and allowing them to get maximum rewards, as I hope to do.
A lot of people's starting point seems to be that I aim to "mess with them" and I'm the one who is somehow morally objectionable. It's not! I simply play the game. It's these groups that artificially manipulate the rankings, even if it's supposedly beneficial who are doing the messing. It would be easy for me to infer from your comments that you accuse me of treating others shoddily just by virtue of wanting my rank to be as high as possible at any given time of day. I know that's not your intention, but that's how many of these comments read.
Why do you have an issue with groups "artificially manipulating the rankings" if you're just playing the game and don't care about your PO?
I just foolishly think an arena is a meritocracy - let's leave it there from me!
The issue is that anyone can win on offense - even "inferior" teams. So it has little to do with merit, ability, who has spent the most money, etc. and ends up boiling down to who can be stuck to their phone for 30 minutes prior to their respective payout...which, for many people is right around dinner/time with family.
You are, of course, free to play as you see fit and from whatever point of view you prefer. I prefer to treat others as I would like to be treated - that is, not mess with them if at all possible, and allowing them to get maximum rewards, as I hope to do.
A lot of people's starting point seems to be that I aim to "mess with them" and I'm the one who is somehow morally objectionable. It's not! I simply play the game. It's these groups that artificially manipulate the rankings, even if it's supposedly beneficial who are doing the messing. It would be easy for me to infer from your comments that you accuse me of treating others shoddily just by virtue of wanting my rank to be as high as possible at any given time of day. I know that's not your intention, but that's how many of these comments read.
Why do you have an issue with groups "artificially manipulating the rankings" if you're just playing the game and don't care about your PO?
Principal of it. Also, I think we've set a record for a reasonable discussion on this forum so just replying for the sake of it now.
I just foolishly think an arena is a meritocracy - let's leave it there from me!
The issue is that anyone can win on offense - even "inferior" teams. So it has little to do with merit, ability, who has spent the most money, etc. and ends up boiling down to who can be stuck to their phone for 30 minutes prior to their respective payout...which, for many people is right around dinner/time with family.
You are, of course, free to play as you see fit and from whatever point of view you prefer. I prefer to treat others as I would like to be treated - that is, not mess with them if at all possible, and allowing them to get maximum rewards, as I hope to do.
A lot of people's starting point seems to be that I aim to "mess with them" and I'm the one who is somehow morally objectionable. It's not! I simply play the game. It's these groups that artificially manipulate the rankings, even if it's supposedly beneficial who are doing the messing. It would be easy for me to infer from your comments that you accuse me of treating others shoddily just by virtue of wanting my rank to be as high as possible at any given time of day. I know that's not your intention, but that's how many of these comments read.
Why do you need your rank to be as "high as possible at any given time of day" - when only one time of the day actually matters practically?
And just to be clear, I would consider anyone who does things without regard as to how they negatively impact others (even if they themselves, derive no gain from said actions) as morally questionable. Not necessarily objectionable.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
You’re totally in the right on this. The 20 people in the shard chat working together, helping each other out, making sure everyone gets the max rewards possible, are totally the bad guys. Now where the heck is the eye roll emoji?
Sounds kind of like one of those shard collusion things that "doesn't happen."
You mean: Sounds like shard cooperation that everyone acknowledges does happen. People say collusion doesn't happen because it doesn't.
It's "cooperation" if you're in on it. It's "collusion" if you're on the outside.
That depends on the nature of your shard chat.... If you are a bunch of guys exchanging payout times so everyone gets max crystals, then cool...... If you are a bunch of guys that conspire to gang up on any player who reaches top twenty, then not so cool.....
7 in mine... 9 in the time slot before. It works and is civil.
What happens when someone new challenges the status quo though just by improving? And the one after that, and the one after that?
I can't speak for everyone in a shard chat anymore than someone in a shard chat can speak for me...... But, some of the top 50 in my shard actually formed their own guild..... I can assure you that penetrating their circle will get you punished......
So basically everyone is telling me that if someone new but decent comes along they can "earn" themselves an invite to said group, who may tell them how to be better at a game they don't need any help on, by virtue of the fact they're already good enough to be top 10/20 arena? What happens when they politely decline but carry on being good at the game? Basically, there's an assumption in all these responses that said new person wants to join in the group
Not all of these groups are full of jerks like above. My arena shard chat is very welcoming and a very good group of people. Definitely lucked out on that. We'll protect people in the chat from being sniped if they ask for help, but if we can contact the other person it makes all of our lives easier, so we try to contact them, get them in rotations and ask them not to climb when it's not their payout time. Probably in the minority though as I know there are plenty of more malicious shard chats out there.
So basically everyone is telling me that if someone new but decent comes along they can "earn" themselves an invite to said group, who may tell them how to be better at a game they don't need any help on, by virtue of the fact they're already good enough to be top 10/20 arena? What happens when they politely decline but carry on being good at the game? Basically, there's an assumption in all these responses that said new person wants to join in the group
Not all of these groups are full of jerks like above. My arena shard chat is very welcoming and a very good group of people. Definitely lucked out on that. We'll protect people in the chat from being sniped if they ask for help, but if we can contact the other person it makes all of our lives easier, so we try to contact them, get them in rotations and ask them not to climb when it's not their payout time. Probably in the minority though as I know there are plenty of more malicious shard chats out there.
I mean that's better, but what happens if they just play the game for enjoyment, without caring what time it is? What I'm getting at is if there's any negative consequences for someone who doesn't want to be part of a group that manipulates arena positions for its members benefit then the group is a bad thing, whether it's otherwise well intentioned or not. I'm top 30, pushing top 20 on mine but have zero intention of joining such a group for example, and I'd hate it if that meant I got picked upon.
Not wanting to go with the majority is a choice, but it doesn't make the cooperation of the majority nefarious, but hitting people outside your payout hour and during theirs will be seen as nefarious by most players.
Not crybabies, just people trying to balance doing the best they can in the game with real life. The point @CHFC22 misses or dismisses is that attacking outside of your climb can have negative consequences for the people you hit and, as such, is not courteous. That's fine if that's who you want be. Do unto others in my book.
Is this available to everyone in the shard? Answer no only those that cooperate i.e collude w each other at the top of the shard. The hitting of people to push them down because they don't join your arena shard sharing policy is not illegal but very sad. I bet u all like those participation trophies too. Some people like competition in fact most do. It doesn't bother me I feel sorry for them.
Sounds kind of like one of those shard collusion things that "doesn't happen."
You mean: Sounds like shard cooperation that everyone acknowledges does happen. People say collusion doesn't happen because it doesn't.
It's "cooperation" if you're in on it. It's "collusion" if you're on the outside.
That depends on the nature of your shard chat.... If you are a bunch of guys exchanging payout times so everyone gets max crystals, then cool...... If you are a bunch of guys that conspire to gang up on any player who reaches top twenty, then not so cool.....
7 in mine... 9 in the time slot before. It works and is civil.
What happens when someone new challenges the status quo though just by improving? And the one after that, and the one after that?
I can't speak for everyone in a shard chat anymore than someone in a shard chat can speak for me...... But, some of the top 50 in my shard actually formed their own guild..... I can assure you that penetrating their circle will get you punished......
So basically everyone is telling me that if someone new but decent comes along they can "earn" themselves an invite to said group, who may tell them how to be better at a game they don't need any help on, by virtue of the fact they're already good enough to be top 10/20 arena? What happens when they politely decline but carry on being good at the game? Basically, there's an assumption in all these responses that said new person wants to join in the group
Not all of these groups are full of jerks like above. My arena shard chat is very welcoming and a very good group of people. Definitely lucked out on that. We'll protect people in the chat from being sniped if they ask for help, but if we can contact the other person it makes all of our lives easier, so we try to contact them, get them in rotations and ask them not to climb when it's not their payout time. Probably in the minority though as I know there are plenty of more malicious shard chats out there.
So basically everyone is telling me that if someone new but decent comes along they can "earn" themselves an invite to said group, who may tell them how to be better at a game they don't need any help on, by virtue of the fact they're already good enough to be top 10/20 arena? What happens when they politely decline but carry on being good at the game? Basically, there's an assumption in all these responses that said new person wants to join in the group
Not all of these groups are full of jerks like above. My arena shard chat is very welcoming and a very good group of people. Definitely lucked out on that. We'll protect people in the chat from being sniped if they ask for help, but if we can contact the other person it makes all of our lives easier, so we try to contact them, get them in rotations and ask them not to climb when it's not their payout time. Probably in the minority though as I know there are plenty of more malicious shard chats out there.
I mean that's better, but what happens if they just play the game for enjoyment, without caring what time it is? What I'm getting at is if there's any negative consequences for someone who doesn't want to be part of a group that manipulates arena positions for its members benefit then the group is a bad thing, whether it's otherwise well intentioned or not. I'm top 30, pushing top 20 on mine but have zero intention of joining such a group for example, and I'd hate it if that meant I got picked upon.
Not wanting to go with the majority is a choice, but it doesn't make the cooperation of the majority nefarious, but hitting people outside your payout hour and during theirs will be seen as nefarious by most players.
Ok Giuliani. Call it whatever you want, there is no reason to get hung up on literal definitions. It’s an unfair side effect stemming from terrible game mode design. You are absolutely blinded, probably by the benefits you receive, if you think these aren’t “nefarious”.
Is this available to everyone in the shard? Answer no only those that cooperate i.e collude w each other at the top of the shard. The hitting of people to push them down because they don't join your arena shard sharing policy is not illegal but very sad. I bet u all like those participation trophies too. Some people like competition in fact most do. It doesn't bother me I feel sorry for them.
Cooperate and collude are not synonyms.
To allege they are is to say something akin to: "Killing in self defense is no different than killing in cold blood".
From a certain perspective, there's truth to it, but from a general sense, it's false.
Sounds kind of like one of those shard collusion things that "doesn't happen."
You mean: Sounds like shard cooperation that everyone acknowledges does happen. People say collusion doesn't happen because it doesn't.
It's "cooperation" if you're in on it. It's "collusion" if you're on the outside.
That depends on the nature of your shard chat.... If you are a bunch of guys exchanging payout times so everyone gets max crystals, then cool...... If you are a bunch of guys that conspire to gang up on any player who reaches top twenty, then not so cool.....
7 in mine... 9 in the time slot before. It works and is civil.
What happens when someone new challenges the status quo though just by improving? And the one after that, and the one after that?
I can't speak for everyone in a shard chat anymore than someone in a shard chat can speak for me...... But, some of the top 50 in my shard actually formed their own guild..... I can assure you that penetrating their circle will get you punished......
So basically everyone is telling me that if someone new but decent comes along they can "earn" themselves an invite to said group, who may tell them how to be better at a game they don't need any help on, by virtue of the fact they're already good enough to be top 10/20 arena? What happens when they politely decline but carry on being good at the game? Basically, there's an assumption in all these responses that said new person wants to join in the group
Not all of these groups are full of jerks like above. My arena shard chat is very welcoming and a very good group of people. Definitely lucked out on that. We'll protect people in the chat from being sniped if they ask for help, but if we can contact the other person it makes all of our lives easier, so we try to contact them, get them in rotations and ask them not to climb when it's not their payout time. Probably in the minority though as I know there are plenty of more malicious shard chats out there.
So basically everyone is telling me that if someone new but decent comes along they can "earn" themselves an invite to said group, who may tell them how to be better at a game they don't need any help on, by virtue of the fact they're already good enough to be top 10/20 arena? What happens when they politely decline but carry on being good at the game? Basically, there's an assumption in all these responses that said new person wants to join in the group
Not all of these groups are full of jerks like above. My arena shard chat is very welcoming and a very good group of people. Definitely lucked out on that. We'll protect people in the chat from being sniped if they ask for help, but if we can contact the other person it makes all of our lives easier, so we try to contact them, get them in rotations and ask them not to climb when it's not their payout time. Probably in the minority though as I know there are plenty of more malicious shard chats out there.
I mean that's better, but what happens if they just play the game for enjoyment, without caring what time it is? What I'm getting at is if there's any negative consequences for someone who doesn't want to be part of a group that manipulates arena positions for its members benefit then the group is a bad thing, whether it's otherwise well intentioned or not. I'm top 30, pushing top 20 on mine but have zero intention of joining such a group for example, and I'd hate it if that meant I got picked upon.
Not wanting to go with the majority is a choice, but it doesn't make the cooperation of the majority nefarious, but hitting people outside your payout hour and during theirs will be seen as nefarious by most players.
Ok Giuliani. Call it whatever you want, there is no reason to get hung up on literal definitions. It’s an unfair side effect stemming from terrible game mode design. You are absolutely blinded, probably by the benefits you receive, if you think these aren’t “nefarious”.
No, the people who think that they can just ignore what most other players around them want (cooperation) are blinded.
Cooperation is only collusion is it is illegal or secret, period.
If you find actually communicating with and cooperating with the people you are competing against every day nefarious when such action has been deemed acceptable by the creators of said game explicitly, you are the one who is blind in my opinion.
Is this available to everyone in the shard? Answer no only those that cooperate i.e collude w each other at the top of the shard. The hitting of people to push them down because they don't join your arena shard sharing policy is not illegal but very sad. I bet u all like those participation trophies too. Some people like competition in fact most do. It doesn't bother me I feel sorry for them.
Cooperate and collude are not synonyms.
To allege they are is to say something akin to: "Killing in self defense is no different than killing in cold blood".
Yeah I was being a smart@$$. Thought u would have caught that. All that colluding has clouded your ability to use the force but not semantics may the force come back to u.
Is this available to everyone in the shard? Answer no only those that cooperate i.e collude w each other at the top of the shard. The hitting of people to push them down because they don't join your arena shard sharing policy is not illegal but very sad. I bet u all like those participation trophies too. Some people like competition in fact most do. It doesn't bother me I feel sorry for them.
Cooperate and collude are not synonyms.
To allege they are is to say something akin to: "Killing in self defense is no different than killing in cold blood".
Yeah I was being a smart@$$. Thought u would have caught that. All that colluding has clouded your ability to use the force but not semantics may the force come back to u.
lol sorry.
Totally my bad. I made a classic mistake and only read the first half of your post. Thanks for correcting me. Appreciate the help... though some may call it collusion.
How many people are invited to the shard chat? 5-10-20-50-100-500? So what percentage of a shard playerbase really cooperate to achieve better payout?
It may be a bad game design, but for the vast majority of players who are not invited to the Crystal meal, it is collusion.
A few players per shard to rule them all.
How many people are invited to the shard chat? 5-10-20-50-100-500? So what percentage of a shard playerbase really cooperate to achieve better payout?
It may be a bad game design, but for the vast majority of players who are not invited to the Crystal meal, it is collusion.
A few players per shard to rule them all.
What percentage of the shard player base is anywhere near the top ranks anyway?
Most existing shard chats are based around those in the top ranks each day.
-There is nothing to stop players who are sitting around 500 from making their own group and cooperating for better payout as well.
-If a large number of players in contention for top ranks are excluded from the group, what is to stop them from setting up a competing group?
If these things aren’t happening, it’s because most of the players who care to be in the top ranks consistently are already involved in the existing group.
How many people are invited to the shard chat? 5-10-20-50-100-500? So what percentage of a shard playerbase really cooperate to achieve better payout?
It may be a bad game design, but for the vast majority of players who are not invited to the Crystal meal, it is collusion.
A few players per shard to rule them all.
the players who are invited are competitive players who worked for their crystals anyway, and took #1 in every meta there is.
there are players who REALLY want #1, and those who just want.
those who really want are the guys in the chat, started it and invited each other. they compete with each other for so long for the top ranks, now they know each other. if you didnt do effort like them in the arena, dont expect to be invited to the "crystal meal"
Mind you, I don't care about shard chat, in fact I am happy with MY game the way it is, but I can use my eyes to see the problems, and ONLY because they can do nothing to prevent shard chat (using 3rd party chat tools), the devs chose to declare them legit.
I have always prefered PvE over PvP because PvE promotes cooperation (which does not stop the devs to try nerf it in Raids as we have seen recently) to success, PvP's goal being to walk on top of other human beings to achieve better ranking and rewards. (has always been like that and will always be, fine.)
I am in the top 200 and things will stay like that because I don't plan to heavily invest real money (And I have spent) in game and thus will never have the meta to get in top 20, and that is perfectly fine to me.
I just understand people who feel like they are harassed by a team of players part of the shard chat when they refuse to join and then get banged by all the team.
The PvP part of this game was designed to be 1 Vs 1, not 20 Vs 1. Now if you guys and the devs are happy with that situation, who am I to say anything against that?
Mind you, I don't care about shard chat, in fact I am happy with MY game the way it is, but I can use my eyes to see the problems, and ONLY because they can do nothing to prevent shard chat (using 3rd party chat tools), the devs chose to declare them legit.
I have always prefered PvE over PvP because PvE promotes cooperation (which does not stop the devs to try nerf it in Raids as we have seen recently) to success, PvP's goal being to walk on top of other human beings to achieve better ranking and rewards. (has always been like that and will always be, fine.)
I am in the top 200 and things will stay like that because I don't plan to heavily invest real money (And I have spent) in game and thus will never have the meta to get in top 20, and that is perfectly fine to me.
I just understand people who feel like they are harassed by a team of players part of the shard chat when they refuse to join and then get banged by all the team.
The PvP part of this game was designed to be 1 Vs 1, not 20 Vs 1. Now if you guys and the devs are happy with that situation, who am I to say anything against that?
this is exactly why you wont be in any shard chat. you just not competitive enough in the arena. the chats came to help the hardcore arena guys and make them do less fights. you cant see the benefit because you are so far from being anywhere near "hardcore arena".
no offense, but reading this all i can think is "this guy isnt good enough". this isnt walking on other human beings, its just competition. instead of the chaos without arena chats, where everybody tried to be #1 all day long for NO REASON AT ALL, the chats bring balance, and whoever that can climb, will climb in his hours. those who aren't worthy, like you unfortunately, will get fought against so you wont disturb the order.
Mind you, I don't care about shard chat, in fact I am happy with MY game the way it is, but I can use my eyes to see the problems, and ONLY because they can do nothing to prevent shard chat (using 3rd party chat tools), the devs chose to declare them legit.
I have always prefered PvE over PvP because PvE promotes cooperation (which does not stop the devs to try nerf it in Raids as we have seen recently) to success, PvP's goal being to walk on top of other human beings to achieve better ranking and rewards. (has always been like that and will always be, fine.)
I am in the top 200 and things will stay like that because I don't plan to heavily invest real money (And I have spent) in game and thus will never have the meta to get in top 20, and that is perfectly fine to me.
I just understand people who feel like they are harassed by a team of players part of the shard chat when they refuse to join and then get banged by all the team.
The PvP part of this game was designed to be 1 Vs 1, not 20 Vs 1. Now if you guys and the devs are happy with that situation, who am I to say anything against that?
this is exactly why you wont be in any shard chat. you just not competitive enough in the arena. the chats came to help the hardcore arena guys and make them do less fights. you cant see the benefit because you are so far from being anywhere near "hardcore arena".
no offense, but reading this all i can think is "this guy isnt good enough". this isnt walking on other human beings, its just competition. instead of the chaos without arena chats, where everybody tried to be #1 all day long for NO REASON AT ALL, the chats bring balance, and whoever that can climb, will climb in his hours. those who aren't worthy, like you unfortunately, will get fought against so you wont disturb the order.
"NO REASON AT ALL" ... that you can see. Some people just like being number 1, and fighting to stay there. They may also like the chaos, as you describe it! The key difference of opinion I'm seeing is those who are in a chat, while obviously being largely decent people, assume their way is the only way and will take umbrage with someone who plays the game differently than they do... which in itself is fine, but not when they gang up to knock someone's ranking down because they're outside the group. Someone is being punished for basically not playing by someone else's rules, which they may not even be aware of. It doesn't matter how you justify the existence of such groups - if the group combines to take out an "intruder" it's not on.
Mind you, I don't care about shard chat, in fact I am happy with MY game the way it is, but I can use my eyes to see the problems, and ONLY because they can do nothing to prevent shard chat (using 3rd party chat tools), the devs chose to declare them legit.
I have always prefered PvE over PvP because PvE promotes cooperation (which does not stop the devs to try nerf it in Raids as we have seen recently) to success, PvP's goal being to walk on top of other human beings to achieve better ranking and rewards. (has always been like that and will always be, fine.)
I am in the top 200 and things will stay like that because I don't plan to heavily invest real money (And I have spent) in game and thus will never have the meta to get in top 20, and that is perfectly fine to me.
I just understand people who feel like they are harassed by a team of players part of the shard chat when they refuse to join and then get banged by all the team.
The PvP part of this game was designed to be 1 Vs 1, not 20 Vs 1. Now if you guys and the devs are happy with that situation, who am I to say anything against that?
this is exactly why you wont be in any shard chat. you just not competitive enough in the arena. the chats came to help the hardcore arena guys and make them do less fights. you cant see the benefit because you are so far from being anywhere near "hardcore arena".
no offense, but reading this all i can think is "this guy isnt good enough". this isnt walking on other human beings, its just competition. instead of the chaos without arena chats, where everybody tried to be #1 all day long for NO REASON AT ALL, the chats bring balance, and whoever that can climb, will climb in his hours. those who aren't worthy, like you unfortunately, will get fought against so you wont disturb the order.
"NO REASON AT ALL" ... that you can see. Some people just like being number 1, and fighting to stay there. They may also like the chaos, as you describe it! The key difference of opinion I'm seeing is those who are in a chat, while obviously being largely decent people, assume their way is the only way and will take umbrage with someone who plays the game differently than they do... which in itself is fine, but not when they gang up to knock someone's ranking down because they're outside the group. Someone is being punished for basically not playing by someone else's rules, which they may not even be aware of. It doesn't matter how you justify the existence of such groups - if the group combines to take out an "intruder" it's not on.
Except that you have built a strawman argument. Most people posting have stated that groups that do what you describe are NOT good and for most chat groups, their goal is to help people achieve maximum rewards - not "take out intruders".
You can play the game however you like. If you enjoy attacking people for no reason, no where near your payout, then why take exception when they hit you back? If you want to cooperate with other people on your shard, respect their payout times and climb without hassle, you can do that too. What I don't understand is the double standard - why are you allowed to play the way you want but complain when others (even in cooperative groups) do the same?
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Mind you, I don't care about shard chat, in fact I am happy with MY game the way it is, but I can use my eyes to see the problems, and ONLY because they can do nothing to prevent shard chat (using 3rd party chat tools), the devs chose to declare them legit.
I have always prefered PvE over PvP because PvE promotes cooperation (which does not stop the devs to try nerf it in Raids as we have seen recently) to success, PvP's goal being to walk on top of other human beings to achieve better ranking and rewards. (has always been like that and will always be, fine.)
I am in the top 200 and things will stay like that because I don't plan to heavily invest real money (And I have spent) in game and thus will never have the meta to get in top 20, and that is perfectly fine to me.
I just understand people who feel like they are harassed by a team of players part of the shard chat when they refuse to join and then get banged by all the team.
The PvP part of this game was designed to be 1 Vs 1, not 20 Vs 1. Now if you guys and the devs are happy with that situation, who am I to say anything against that?
this is exactly why you wont be in any shard chat. you just not competitive enough in the arena. the chats came to help the hardcore arena guys and make them do less fights. you cant see the benefit because you are so far from being anywhere near "hardcore arena".
no offense, but reading this all i can think is "this guy isnt good enough". this isnt walking on other human beings, its just competition. instead of the chaos without arena chats, where everybody tried to be #1 all day long for NO REASON AT ALL, the chats bring balance, and whoever that can climb, will climb in his hours. those who aren't worthy, like you unfortunately, will get fought against so you wont disturb the order.
"NO REASON AT ALL" ... that you can see. Some people just like being number 1, and fighting to stay there. They may also like the chaos, as you describe it! The key difference of opinion I'm seeing is those who are in a chat, while obviously being largely decent people, assume their way is the only way and will take umbrage with someone who plays the game differently than they do... which in itself is fine, but not when they gang up to knock someone's ranking down because they're outside the group. Someone is being punished for basically not playing by someone else's rules, which they may not even be aware of. It doesn't matter how you justify the existence of such groups - if the group combines to take out an "intruder" it's not on.
People in chats generally want to be democratic about things: Majority rules.
The majority wants to be cooperative and stay out of each other's way. One wants to cause chaos. That's fine, but if someone goes against what the majority wants, they get ganged up on 20 to 1, and should expect that.
It's not that people in chats don't see ways other than their own, they just have the majority.
Because I'll attack one person once, a group of 20 people could all target one person. That's the difference.
And you've done it again - dismiss a counter view point by saying I'd attack a person for no reason. Nothing wrong with differing viewpoints of course, but I don't target people who are in a group, yet I could be targeted because I'm not in one. It's just not fair that. I don't know how else I can say I attack because it's what you're meant to do in the arena! I'd do it even if there were zero rewards - it's just the part of the game I enjoy the most.
How many people are invited to the shard chat? 5-10-20-50-100-500? So what percentage of a shard playerbase really cooperate to achieve better payout?
It may be a bad game design, but for the vast majority of players who are not invited to the Crystal meal, it is collusion.
A few players per shard to rule them all.
the players who are invited are competitive players who worked for their crystals anyway, and took #1 in every meta there is.
there are players who REALLY want #1, and those who just want.
those who really want are the guys in the chat, started it and invited each other. they compete with each other for so long for the top ranks, now they know each other. if you didnt do effort like them in the arena, dont expect to be invited to the "crystal meal"
LoL "effort" you mean dropping hundreds/thousands of dollars in the game, no way, this is a permanent bugged and twisted product, quality is far from being a value for sure.
Replies
Doesn't take much to get in on it so it's not collusion. Don't be lazy just get on the shard chat
The issue is that anyone can win on offense - even "inferior" teams. So it has little to do with merit, ability, who has spent the most money, etc. and ends up boiling down to who can be stuck to their phone for 30 minutes prior to their respective payout...which, for many people is right around dinner/time with family.
You are, of course, free to play as you see fit and from whatever point of view you prefer. I prefer to treat others as I would like to be treated - that is, not mess with them if at all possible, and allowing them to get maximum rewards, as I hope to do.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
A lot of people's starting point seems to be that I aim to "mess with them" and I'm the one who is somehow morally objectionable. It's not! I simply play the game. It's these groups that artificially manipulate the rankings, even if it's supposedly beneficial who are doing the messing. It would be easy for me to infer from your comments that you accuse me of treating others shoddily just by virtue of wanting my rank to be as high as possible at any given time of day. I know that's not your intention, but that's how many of these comments read.
Why do you have an issue with groups "artificially manipulating the rankings" if you're just playing the game and don't care about your PO?
Principal of it. Also, I think we've set a record for a reasonable discussion on this forum so just replying for the sake of it now.
Why do you need your rank to be as "high as possible at any given time of day" - when only one time of the day actually matters practically?
And just to be clear, I would consider anyone who does things without regard as to how they negatively impact others (even if they themselves, derive no gain from said actions) as morally questionable. Not necessarily objectionable.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Nah, it's only collusion if t is secret or illegal by the very definition of the word, this is neither.
Still cooperation and not collusion.
Again, still not collusion, just cooperation.
this is the way my chat is.
Not wanting to go with the majority is a choice, but it doesn't make the cooperation of the majority nefarious, but hitting people outside your payout hour and during theirs will be seen as nefarious by most players.
Ok Giuliani. Call it whatever you want, there is no reason to get hung up on literal definitions. It’s an unfair side effect stemming from terrible game mode design. You are absolutely blinded, probably by the benefits you receive, if you think these aren’t “nefarious”.
Cooperate and collude are not synonyms.
To allege they are is to say something akin to: "Killing in self defense is no different than killing in cold blood".
From a certain perspective, there's truth to it, but from a general sense, it's false.
No, the people who think that they can just ignore what most other players around them want (cooperation) are blinded.
Cooperation is only collusion is it is illegal or secret, period.
If you find actually communicating with and cooperating with the people you are competing against every day nefarious when such action has been deemed acceptable by the creators of said game explicitly, you are the one who is blind in my opinion.
lol sorry.
Totally my bad. I made a classic mistake and only read the first half of your post. Thanks for correcting me. Appreciate the help... though some may call it collusion.
*Use my 5 turns whenever I'm able
It may be a bad game design, but for the vast majority of players who are not invited to the Crystal meal, it is collusion.
A few players per shard to rule them all.
What percentage of the shard player base is anywhere near the top ranks anyway?
Most existing shard chats are based around those in the top ranks each day.
-There is nothing to stop players who are sitting around 500 from making their own group and cooperating for better payout as well.
-If a large number of players in contention for top ranks are excluded from the group, what is to stop them from setting up a competing group?
If these things aren’t happening, it’s because most of the players who care to be in the top ranks consistently are already involved in the existing group.
the players who are invited are competitive players who worked for their crystals anyway, and took #1 in every meta there is.
there are players who REALLY want #1, and those who just want.
those who really want are the guys in the chat, started it and invited each other. they compete with each other for so long for the top ranks, now they know each other. if you didnt do effort like them in the arena, dont expect to be invited to the "crystal meal"
I have always prefered PvE over PvP because PvE promotes cooperation (which does not stop the devs to try nerf it in Raids as we have seen recently) to success, PvP's goal being to walk on top of other human beings to achieve better ranking and rewards. (has always been like that and will always be, fine.)
I am in the top 200 and things will stay like that because I don't plan to heavily invest real money (And I have spent) in game and thus will never have the meta to get in top 20, and that is perfectly fine to me.
I just understand people who feel like they are harassed by a team of players part of the shard chat when they refuse to join and then get banged by all the team.
The PvP part of this game was designed to be 1 Vs 1, not 20 Vs 1. Now if you guys and the devs are happy with that situation, who am I to say anything against that?
F2P isn't an excuse to be top 200
Shard chat for ours seems cool, know who not to hit during climb, rarely hit during climb... If your team can't make it then it doesn't...
this is exactly why you wont be in any shard chat. you just not competitive enough in the arena. the chats came to help the hardcore arena guys and make them do less fights. you cant see the benefit because you are so far from being anywhere near "hardcore arena".
no offense, but reading this all i can think is "this guy isnt good enough". this isnt walking on other human beings, its just competition. instead of the chaos without arena chats, where everybody tried to be #1 all day long for NO REASON AT ALL, the chats bring balance, and whoever that can climb, will climb in his hours. those who aren't worthy, like you unfortunately, will get fought against so you wont disturb the order.
"NO REASON AT ALL" ... that you can see. Some people just like being number 1, and fighting to stay there. They may also like the chaos, as you describe it! The key difference of opinion I'm seeing is those who are in a chat, while obviously being largely decent people, assume their way is the only way and will take umbrage with someone who plays the game differently than they do... which in itself is fine, but not when they gang up to knock someone's ranking down because they're outside the group. Someone is being punished for basically not playing by someone else's rules, which they may not even be aware of. It doesn't matter how you justify the existence of such groups - if the group combines to take out an "intruder" it's not on.
Except that you have built a strawman argument. Most people posting have stated that groups that do what you describe are NOT good and for most chat groups, their goal is to help people achieve maximum rewards - not "take out intruders".
You can play the game however you like. If you enjoy attacking people for no reason, no where near your payout, then why take exception when they hit you back? If you want to cooperate with other people on your shard, respect their payout times and climb without hassle, you can do that too. What I don't understand is the double standard - why are you allowed to play the way you want but complain when others (even in cooperative groups) do the same?
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
People in chats generally want to be democratic about things: Majority rules.
The majority wants to be cooperative and stay out of each other's way. One wants to cause chaos. That's fine, but if someone goes against what the majority wants, they get ganged up on 20 to 1, and should expect that.
It's not that people in chats don't see ways other than their own, they just have the majority.
And you've done it again - dismiss a counter view point by saying I'd attack a person for no reason. Nothing wrong with differing viewpoints of course, but I don't target people who are in a group, yet I could be targeted because I'm not in one. It's just not fair that. I don't know how else I can say I attack because it's what you're meant to do in the arena! I'd do it even if there were zero rewards - it's just the part of the game I enjoy the most.
LoL "effort" you mean dropping hundreds/thousands of dollars in the game, no way, this is a permanent bugged and twisted product, quality is far from being a value for sure.