It's not us vs. them. You need to run things through some math to understand the scale of the problem. Check how much of the other non-challenge gear you need. Now compare it to this:
13.680 (total salvage you need)-1400(what you got)-90*31(90 is the average salvage a toon needs)
=
You still need 9490 of them! This is in addition to the prototypes you will have to buy anyways.
We are trying to cover all the playerbases back and yet some are sabotaging the effort. CG of course benefits from taking them out, because it's yet another bottleneck they create by this.
According to my swgoh.gg profile, the remaining characters I have need a total of 135 MK8 BioTech Implants. I have two fully crafted in my inventory, so in order to install every needed Implant on my roster today, I would need 133 - which requires 7980 total of the salvage.
I currently have 1445 salvage, so I would need an additional 6535 salvage in order to install every Implant on every toon.
BUT...I only have 250 prototypes (plus one crafted prototype) - so I would need to obtain 128x50 = 6400 of the Mk8 Biotech Implant Prototypes.
So I basically have a 1:1 ratio of Salvage:Prototype requirements to g12 my entire roster.
Since the challenges currently give us ~45 Salvage per week (Let' assume 3/sim x 5 sims x 3 per week), then It'll take me 177 weeks (a little over 3 years) to obtain all that salvage.
However, my Prototypes are coming in at a significantly lower rate than 45 per week - in fact, it can't be estimated because it's only from raid drops. I only buy them from shipments when I need one for a toon I'm focusing on.
Since all this math is based on the premise that I intend to g12 my entire roster (which I doubt will ever happen - why would I spend gear on CUP or Mob Enforcer, for example?), it means that my actual *need* for these salvage and prototypes is a lot lower than these calculations.
The tl;dr is that my rate of obtaining salvage and prototypes will probably always be skewed where I am getting more salvages through the challenges, and I'll periodically buy prototypes to catch up. I have not bought so many prototypes that I've now "flipped" to having the other half of the gear be the bottleneck.
Im very pleased that your making the changes, and changing the focus from “Here is a verY difficult challenge that will stop most guilds from making progress towards completing heroic”, too, “making each tier a stepping stone that gears, trains and assists guilds to progress”, if youve done it right then guilds fighting tier 3 should be getting the gear they need, to be at a level that is needed for T4, incuding fully crafted kit.
I agree Heroic as a fight is ok, but lets hope more than just the top three get crafted pieces with your look changes.
Lessons learnt? If you have to reduce any tiers raid boss health by 95% at some point in the future then you got it spectacularly wrong in the first place, but lets see how it goes.
And i have to say that @CG_SBCrumb ‘s humour, participation in the forum and communications seem much better recently, its going to sound patrinising but its starting to feel like we are actually getting a community manager now someone has loosened thier grip on your collar.
It's not us vs. them. You need to run things through some math to understand the scale of the problem. Check how much of the other non-challenge gear you need. Now compare it to this:
13.680 (total salvage you need)-1400(what you got)-90*31(90 is the average salvage a toon needs)
=
You still need 9490 of them! This is in addition to the prototypes you will have to buy anyways.
We are trying to cover all the playerbases back and yet some are sabotaging the effort. CG of course benefits from taking them out, because it's yet another bottleneck they create by this.
According to my swgoh.gg profile, the remaining characters I have need a total of 135 MK8 BioTech Implants. I have two fully crafted in my inventory, so in order to install every needed Implant on my roster today, I would need 133 - which requires 7980 total of the salvage.
I currently have 1445 salvage, so I would need an additional 6535 salvage in order to install every Implant on every toon.
BUT...I only have 250 prototypes (plus one crafted prototype) - so I would need to obtain 128x50 = 6400 of the Mk8 Biotech Implant Prototypes.
So I basically have a 1:1 ratio of Salvage:Prototype requirements to g12 my entire roster.
Since the challenges currently give us ~45 Salvage per week (Let' assume 3/sim x 5 sims x 3 per week), then It'll take me 177 weeks (a little over 3 years) to obtain all that salvage.
However, my Prototypes are coming in at a significantly lower rate than 45 per week - in fact, it can't be estimated because it's only from raid drops. I only buy them from shipments when I need one for a toon I'm focusing on.
Since all this math is based on the premise that I intend to g12 my entire roster (which I doubt will ever happen - why would I spend gear on CUP or Mob Enforcer, for example?), it means that my actual *need* for these salvage and prototypes is a lot lower than these calculations.
The tl;dr is that my rate of obtaining salvage and prototypes will probably always be skewed where I am getting more salvages through the challenges, and I'll periodically buy prototypes to catch up. I have not bought so many prototypes that I've now "flipped" to having the other half of the gear be the bottleneck.
Now run the same calculation for other non-challenge pieces you would rather get from aat and see how much less you'll need them in the future. Don't forget this is not -fully gearing all your roster-. There has been 2 more layers of gear 12-1.2.3 and 12-4-5. already released. The baseline of toon usability will always be upwards. Flat g12 will be g10 of elderly days etc.
I've edited my post to give an example, c/ping here
Meh if you have 52 G12 char you have spent a lot of money and bought a lot of stun guns (more than likely but not always)
I would rather replace the gold ball in the hopes of getting other better gear that we need. The majority of the game cannot farm guns carbs etc to get char to the point where they need gold balls at the rate your talking about...
So the bottom line this is a 'MOSTLY" Whales want balls to stay, dolphins and F2P would rather a chance at better gear or full craft...
Lol whales always win around here anyway so I guess the balls will be coming back
Meh if you have 52 G12 char you have spent a lot of money and bought a lot of stun guns (more than likely but not always)
I would rather replace the gold ball in the hopes of getting other better gear that we need. The majority of the game cannot farm guns carbs etc to get char to the point where they need gold balls at the rate your talking about...
So the bottom line this is a 'MOSTLY" Whales want balls to stay, dolphins and F2P would rather a chance at better gear or full craft...
Lol whales always win around here anyway so I guess the balls will be coming back
You are wrong. F2p with 44 G12 here and all the veteran/day 1 f2p around me are in the same situation. If I was a spender what the hell would I care, one more bottleneck would be better for me since it would need more behind.
It's not us vs. them. You need to run things through some math to understand the scale of the problem. Check how much of the other non-challenge gear you need. Now compare it to this:
13.680 (total salvage you need)-1400(what you got)-90*31(90 is the average salvage a toon needs)
=
You still need 9490 of them! This is in addition to the prototypes you will have to buy anyways.
We are trying to cover all the playerbases back and yet some are sabotaging the effort. CG of course benefits from taking them out, because it's yet another bottleneck they create by this.
According to my swgoh.gg profile, the remaining characters I have need a total of 135 MK8 BioTech Implants. I have two fully crafted in my inventory, so in order to install every needed Implant on my roster today, I would need 133 - which requires 7980 total of the salvage.
I currently have 1445 salvage, so I would need an additional 6535 salvage in order to install every Implant on every toon.
BUT...I only have 250 prototypes (plus one crafted prototype) - so I would need to obtain 128x50 = 6400 of the Mk8 Biotech Implant Prototypes.
So I basically have a 1:1 ratio of Salvage:Prototype requirements to g12 my entire roster.
Since the challenges currently give us ~45 Salvage per week (Let' assume 3/sim x 5 sims x 3 per week), then It'll take me 177 weeks (a little over 3 years) to obtain all that salvage.
However, my Prototypes are coming in at a significantly lower rate than 45 per week - in fact, it can't be estimated because it's only from raid drops. I only buy them from shipments when I need one for a toon I'm focusing on.
Since all this math is based on the premise that I intend to g12 my entire roster (which I doubt will ever happen - why would I spend gear on CUP or Mob Enforcer, for example?), it means that my actual *need* for these salvage and prototypes is a lot lower than these calculations.
The tl;dr is that my rate of obtaining salvage and prototypes will probably always be skewed where I am getting more salvages through the challenges, and I'll periodically buy prototypes to catch up. I have not bought so many prototypes that I've now "flipped" to having the other half of the gear be the bottleneck.
Now run the same calculation for other non-challenge pieces you would rather get from aat and see how much less you'll need them in the future. Don't forget this is not -fully gearing all your roster-. There has been 2 more layers of gear 12-1.2.3 and 12-4-5. already released. The baseline of toon usability will always be upwards. Flat g12 will be g10 of elderly days etc.
I've edited my post to give an example, c/ping here
It's needed 87 times. 4350 pieces. 27 pieces average per toon*31 you already got=842
You will need 3508 more of them.
I think you're confusing prototypes with salvage.
My mk5 prototype needs will be better met by this change. I will have a higher drop rate of those because the salvage is being removed from the loot pool. Since these raids are pretty much the only place I can obtain the prototypes - increasing my odds is only beneficial.
The salvages I can get consistently and (relatively) predictably from weekly challenges. If I feel I need to spend more than I receive, that's what crystals are for.
Don't consider these salvages and prototypes with respect to "how much is needed for all toons." (and right now the numbers in swgoh.gg are the numbers required to fully gear all characters - I'm not going to speculate on the gear requirements of future unreleased characters). When considering impact to players, consider the rates of acquisition - we receive mk5 medpack and mk8 biotech implant salvage at about 45-50 per week. We have no guaranteed acquisition of the prototypes.
Removing the salvage from the raid loot boxes increases the odds of prototypes dropping - therefore increasing the rate of prototype acquisition. This is a boon for literally all players except the portion of the population that has purchased a large number of prototypes. However, if you stop buying prototypes from the shipment store, the rate of acquisition through challenges will eventually grow your salvage inventory faster than the prototype drops from raids.
I believe that was the entire point of this change.
Meh if you have 52 G12 char you have spent a lot of money and bought a lot of stun guns (more than likely but not always)
I would rather replace the gold ball in the hopes of getting other better gear that we need. The majority of the game cannot farm guns carbs etc to get char to the point where they need gold balls at the rate your talking about...
So the bottom line this is a 'MOSTLY" Whales want balls to stay, dolphins and F2P would rather a chance at better gear or full craft...
Lol whales always win around here anyway so I guess the balls will be coming back
You are wrong. F2p with 44 G12 here and all the veteran/day 1 f2p around me are in the same situation. If I was a spender what the hell would I care, one more bottleneck would be better for me since it would need more behind.
Uhhh your wrong cause I STATED in my post there were exceptions like your F2Pness...but yes your the exception not the rule.
I would not worry a bit as seen in this thread that will go 50+pages eventually the gold balls will find their way back because this thread will never die....
My only concern with these changes is that ANY challenge gear is being left in ANY raid rewards. Please remove ALL challenge gear from raid rewards (at least at heroic lvl). It's so demoralizing to get gear that you already have thousands of.
Not the component that looks like a black eyeball. The component is the thing you are likely running out of...
U need about 50k of those btw. I've never run out of those but i am starting to feel the pinch. It wont be a problem if you're in the abyss of the arenas and arent a spender, but if u are topping the arenas or burning through your pockets, these will start running out real quick once u get the components from shipments.
Basically, everything purple and up from the mon thu challenges are valuable, even the mk4 keypads.
Meh if you have 52 G12 char you have spent a lot of money and bought a lot of stun guns (more than likely but not always)
I would rather replace the gold ball in the hopes of getting other better gear that we need. The majority of the game cannot farm guns carbs etc to get char to the point where they need gold balls at the rate your talking about...
So the bottom line this is a 'MOSTLY" Whales want balls to stay, dolphins and F2P would rather a chance at better gear or full craft...
Lol whales always win around here anyway so I guess the balls will be coming back
You are wrong. F2p with 44 G12 here and all the veteran/day 1 f2p around me are in the same situation. If I was a spender what the hell would I care, one more bottleneck would be better for me since it would need more behind.
Uhhh your wrong cause I STATED in my post there were exceptions like your F2Pness...but yes your the exception not the rule.
I would not worry a bit as seen in this thread that will go 50+pages eventually the gold balls will find their way back because this thread will never die....
I'm not an exception whatsoever, neither are the other posters objecting the same. It's not a spending grade divide as much as it's a divide based on how long you have been playing. Most of the long term players experience the same, the ones that doesn't are the exception. Most of the currently trigger happy people with their 2k piles of balls will experience the same in the future.
Now what are you doing about Nihilus protection regen on debuffed character using a basic attack?
Because thats why i dont get a high score, not his annihlate.
Thats the reason i dont like playing the raid and thats why i consider it a bad raid.
Whats being done to fix that?
Nothing is being done to "fix" that because there's nothing to "fix". That's the way this raid works.
Exactly, this is more of a "understand the mechanics" problem. Add tenacity, use tenacity up characters, use characters that reset cooldowns, etc. Numerous...numerous ways around this.
With the backlash already in this thread about taking out the implant salvage, i would bet that they end up leaving it in.
I agree in sentiment...however from their point of view they are going to be giving us better gear going forward...so another bottleneck must be created to keep $$$ flowing.
Like I said...get the thread to 50 pages with all "bring it back" stuff maybe they will...never know
After all is said and done I have one last question to those that think "the balls" should go from aat pool; Would you be ok with it if carbantis were taken out of Rancy pool?
Another vote for leaving the mk8 biotech in the reward pool please
Its the one from the daily challenge. You get about 20 to 25 three times a week already
Been playing almost 3 years. I know exactly where they come from. These are a problem for end game players that aren't big spenders, as many others in this thread have stated.
If you look at gear requirements, end game Strength Challenge gear ( Carbanties and Gold balls) have a disproportionately higher rate of requirement at gear levels 11-12+. At the same time, gear from TAC or AGI challenges is required at a much lower rate presently.
OK, so STR gear is being used as a gating factor to the gearing progression. I get that and I accept it. It's for that reason I wish it wasn't removed from AAT rewards.
@CG just give us more currency so we can buy what we need, rather than have you guys give us stuff that you think we need. You already agree that some have 1,000s of pieces while others don't.
Please put control in the players hand and make the RNG based on how much currency we get to spend in the store.
The entire problem with the sith raid is DN. As long as his annhiliate remains random, and he gets that **** shield from basic attacks, he will continue to drive people away from this raid.
They fixed it though. It’s now extremely predictable. You don’t have to try and guess who he will attack, or how many times.
I disagree. He will still annihilate immediately after the does his secondary attack, which for some reason boosts his turn meter, and it doesn't work that way every time. He will also hold the annihilate attack, while you have your shield up, and go on the following turn.
And that doesn't address the **** shield against basic attacks. There's no reason to have that in there other than to frustrate players. Frustration is never fun game play.
You can easily calculate that the annihilate is coming after his 2nd attack though, based on a debuffs.
You’ll have to show evidence that he will hold his annihilate attack. I don’t believe that’s possible.
His protection gain against basics is very easily addressed. Mod your characters for tenacity. Nihilus has pretty low potency. You can’t just choose to ignore tenacity in order to get other stats and then complain that you keep getting debuffed.
Are people realizing the GIGANTIC reduction of boss health???
It was cut by 19/20 in Tier 1!!! 20 times less health!
All the way up to Tier 6, still cut by half! That’s incredible!
Amazing update, props to the devs.
Health pools and P1 changes look good. But the fact they are not increasing the rewards by at least 20% is extremely concerning considering I highly doubt the time investment is now going to be shorter than the time investment for a HPit or HAAT, yet the rewards are still going to be worse. Rewards should match the time investment period. Getting 5-7 pieces of 4 different types of gear for an hour of work doesn't compare to the 25 to 50 pieces of 3 different types of gear I get for autoing HPit for 15 minutes. This fix is only going to slightly increase raid participation in guilds and now we are going to be running into the issue of players not being prepared for HSTR because they only changed the sabers for tiers 1-6. Your half measures are not getting to the core of the problem, and that problem is your STR content doesn't help prep players for your HSTR content. We have been telling you this for months, we told you when you announced these half measures two months ago, and yet you have yet to do anything about it.
Gold eyeballs are essential. CG you need to understand your own game.
There are links to swgoh.gg above specifically for the gold eyeball item that clearly demonstrate its usage. If you dont already have this information then go check it out. As soon as you get to the point of getting your roster to g12 you start to run short of these.
Consider adding increased drop rates of this item as well as the other suspects like carbanti cuffs and guns.
Are people realizing the GIGANTIC reduction of boss health???
It was cut by 19/20 in Tier 1!!! 20 times less health!
All the way up to Tier 6, still cut by half! That’s incredible!
Amazing update, props to the devs.
I hope that they learned from this and when they said the Chewie legendary would be hard they don't mean "sith raid at release" hard. Because I imagine most of the players who have decent g10/11 BH teams at 7* won't be happy if 7* Chewie requires g12+ toons and/or whaling out for all the new BH. Especially after the debacle that has been the Sith Raid.
Replies
Because thats why i dont get a high score, not his annihlate.
Thats the reason i dont like playing the raid and thats why i consider it a bad raid.
Whats being done to fix that?
According to my swgoh.gg profile, the remaining characters I have need a total of 135 MK8 BioTech Implants. I have two fully crafted in my inventory, so in order to install every needed Implant on my roster today, I would need 133 - which requires 7980 total of the salvage.
I currently have 1445 salvage, so I would need an additional 6535 salvage in order to install every Implant on every toon.
BUT...I only have 250 prototypes (plus one crafted prototype) - so I would need to obtain 128x50 = 6400 of the Mk8 Biotech Implant Prototypes.
So I basically have a 1:1 ratio of Salvage:Prototype requirements to g12 my entire roster.
Since the challenges currently give us ~45 Salvage per week (Let' assume 3/sim x 5 sims x 3 per week), then It'll take me 177 weeks (a little over 3 years) to obtain all that salvage.
However, my Prototypes are coming in at a significantly lower rate than 45 per week - in fact, it can't be estimated because it's only from raid drops. I only buy them from shipments when I need one for a toon I'm focusing on.
Since all this math is based on the premise that I intend to g12 my entire roster (which I doubt will ever happen - why would I spend gear on CUP or Mob Enforcer, for example?), it means that my actual *need* for these salvage and prototypes is a lot lower than these calculations.
The tl;dr is that my rate of obtaining salvage and prototypes will probably always be skewed where I am getting more salvages through the challenges, and I'll periodically buy prototypes to catch up. I have not bought so many prototypes that I've now "flipped" to having the other half of the gear be the bottleneck.
Its the one from the daily challenge. You get about 20 to 25 three times a week already
I agree Heroic as a fight is ok, but lets hope more than just the top three get crafted pieces with your look changes.
Lessons learnt? If you have to reduce any tiers raid boss health by 95% at some point in the future then you got it spectacularly wrong in the first place, but lets see how it goes.
And i have to say that @CG_SBCrumb ‘s humour, participation in the forum and communications seem much better recently, its going to sound patrinising but its starting to feel like we are actually getting a community manager now someone has loosened thier grip on your collar.
Now run the same calculation for other non-challenge pieces you would rather get from aat and see how much less you'll need them in the future. Don't forget this is not -fully gearing all your roster-. There has been 2 more layers of gear 12-1.2.3 and 12-4-5. already released. The baseline of toon usability will always be upwards. Flat g12 will be g10 of elderly days etc.
I've edited my post to give an example, c/ping here
Just as an example I'll compare it to your mk5 medpac prototype needs:
https://swgoh.gg/db/gear/130/mk-5-athakam-medpac/
It's needed 87 times. 4350 pieces. 27 pieces average per toon*31 you already got=842
You will need 3508 more of them.
I would rather replace the gold ball in the hopes of getting other better gear that we need. The majority of the game cannot farm guns carbs etc to get char to the point where they need gold balls at the rate your talking about...
So the bottom line this is a 'MOSTLY" Whales want balls to stay, dolphins and F2P would rather a chance at better gear or full craft...
Lol whales always win around here anyway so I guess the balls will be coming back
You are wrong. F2p with 44 G12 here and all the veteran/day 1 f2p around me are in the same situation. If I was a spender what the hell would I care, one more bottleneck would be better for me since it would need more behind.
I think you're confusing prototypes with salvage.
My mk5 prototype needs will be better met by this change. I will have a higher drop rate of those because the salvage is being removed from the loot pool. Since these raids are pretty much the only place I can obtain the prototypes - increasing my odds is only beneficial.
The salvages I can get consistently and (relatively) predictably from weekly challenges. If I feel I need to spend more than I receive, that's what crystals are for.
Don't consider these salvages and prototypes with respect to "how much is needed for all toons." (and right now the numbers in swgoh.gg are the numbers required to fully gear all characters - I'm not going to speculate on the gear requirements of future unreleased characters). When considering impact to players, consider the rates of acquisition - we receive mk5 medpack and mk8 biotech implant salvage at about 45-50 per week. We have no guaranteed acquisition of the prototypes.
Removing the salvage from the raid loot boxes increases the odds of prototypes dropping - therefore increasing the rate of prototype acquisition. This is a boon for literally all players except the portion of the population that has purchased a large number of prototypes. However, if you stop buying prototypes from the shipment store, the rate of acquisition through challenges will eventually grow your salvage inventory faster than the prototype drops from raids.
I believe that was the entire point of this change.
Uhhh your wrong cause I STATED in my post there were exceptions like your F2Pness...but yes your the exception not the rule.
I would not worry a bit as seen in this thread that will go 50+pages eventually the gold balls will find their way back because this thread will never die....
THANKS team
U need about 50k of those btw. I've never run out of those but i am starting to feel the pinch. It wont be a problem if you're in the abyss of the arenas and arent a spender, but if u are topping the arenas or burning through your pockets, these will start running out real quick once u get the components from shipments.
Basically, everything purple and up from the mon thu challenges are valuable, even the mk4 keypads.
I'm not an exception whatsoever, neither are the other posters objecting the same. It's not a spending grade divide as much as it's a divide based on how long you have been playing. Most of the long term players experience the same, the ones that doesn't are the exception. Most of the currently trigger happy people with their 2k piles of balls will experience the same in the future.
Nothing is being done to "fix" that because there's nothing to "fix". That's the way this raid works.
Exactly, this is more of a "understand the mechanics" problem. Add tenacity, use tenacity up characters, use characters that reset cooldowns, etc. Numerous...numerous ways around this.
I agree in sentiment...however from their point of view they are going to be giving us better gear going forward...so another bottleneck must be created to keep $$$ flowing.
Like I said...get the thread to 50 pages with all "bring it back" stuff maybe they will...never know
Been playing almost 3 years. I know exactly where they come from. These are a problem for end game players that aren't big spenders, as many others in this thread have stated.
OK, so STR gear is being used as a gating factor to the gearing progression. I get that and I accept it. It's for that reason I wish it wasn't removed from AAT rewards.
Please put control in the players hand and make the RNG based on how much currency we get to spend in the store.
You can easily calculate that the annihilate is coming after his 2nd attack though, based on a debuffs.
You’ll have to show evidence that he will hold his annihilate attack. I don’t believe that’s possible.
His protection gain against basics is very easily addressed. Mod your characters for tenacity. Nihilus has pretty low potency. You can’t just choose to ignore tenacity in order to get other stats and then complain that you keep getting debuffed.
It was cut by 19/20 in Tier 1!!! 20 times less health!
All the way up to Tier 6, still cut by half! That’s incredible!
Amazing update, props to the devs.
It's needed 78 times more inside the mk6 stun guns. So that's even 13680 I think.
There are links to swgoh.gg above specifically for the gold eyeball item that clearly demonstrate its usage. If you dont already have this information then go check it out. As soon as you get to the point of getting your roster to g12 you start to run short of these.
Consider adding increased drop rates of this item as well as the other suspects like carbanti cuffs and guns.
Make the game fun rather than the other 'F' word.
Your call
I hope that they learned from this and when they said the Chewie legendary would be hard they don't mean "sith raid at release" hard. Because I imagine most of the players who have decent g10/11 BH teams at 7* won't be happy if 7* Chewie requires g12+ toons and/or whaling out for all the new BH. Especially after the debacle that has been the Sith Raid.