Qira's unique isn't giving allies health steal up when it should, when I play her in our tier 6, phase 1 Sith Raid. I have yet to try it in any other phase, but retreated several times and it just wasn't working in phase 1.
I took that same exact team into GW and it worked just fine. Bug, or something I'm not aware of?
I understand fully well that when one tier becomes too easy, move to the next tier. My point is that they nerfed the health to the tune of a 90% or so reduction. That is not the behavior of a company that has a well thought out plan, nor a well tested product. First they made it so hard that it was not t l fun. Now they've done the exact opposite, making it really easy, which is also not fun.
It's also funny that, in the early days of the raid, when people were complaining how ridiculously hard the raid was, many of the seasoned vets here were saying, even about Tier 1, that this was supposed to be an "end game" raid and it wasn't supposed to be easy.
Your logic kinda beats itself. How is it "really easy, which is also not fun."? when you can move up a tier or two?
I think the question answers itself. If it's too easy, it's not fun. Moving up several tiers means doing less raids as it costs more raid tickets. So they're over quick with long periods of time in between. That is also less fun. I actually like playing this game, but these days it's mostly just simming through everything.
I think the question answers itself. If it's too easy, it's not fun. Moving up several tiers means doing less raids as it costs more raid tickets. So they're over quick with long periods of time in between. That is also less fun. I actually like playing this game, but these days it's mostly just simming through everything.
The goal is to find the raid tier where you refill the raid ticket amount required just as or just after the raid ends. Depends on if your Guild likes having a day off between.
Nobody is claiming you have to only do rapid-fire raids. It used to take our small Guild several days to do a T4 and we'd have just enough tickets after to re-launch. We test-launched a T4 after the update and it was done in hours. We just launched a T5 and it's taking about as long as our 4's so we'll have enough tickets to do it again. Fits our needs perfectly.
I understand fully well that when one tier becomes too easy, move to the next tier. My point is that they nerfed the health to the tune of a 90% or so reduction. That is not the behavior of a company that has a well thought out plan, nor a well tested product. First they made it so hard that it was not t l fun. Now they've done the exact opposite, making it really easy, which is also not fun.
It's also funny that, in the early days of the raid, when people were complaining how ridiculously hard the raid was, many of the seasoned vets here were saying, even about Tier 1, that this was supposed to be an "end game" raid and it wasn't supposed to be easy.
By the end though even the seasoned vets who had said that the difficulty was fine had largely changed their minds that the raid was poorly thought out. Witness the feedback thread from a few months ago where you would struggle to find 1 in every 100 posts that said it was well done.
Fact is your right, the nerf was because the raid wasn't well thought out or tested. Because of the poor design & QA they had to nerf it by such vast amounts. Not nerfing it so hard would've been the wrong choice.
Regardless you are missing the point that you aren't supposed to be doing tier 1 or 2 if you can do hpit, you're supposed to do tier 4. if you can do haat you should do tier 5, maybe tier 6. Those sith raid tiers pull their gear loot from the same respective hpit & haat loot tables for that reason. In my experience doing the tier appropriate to hpit/haat sees it taking slightly longer than hpit or haat. For example we've consistently blown through tier 4 in 12-14 hours and, because of guild rules against soloing hpit, it takes us 3-6 hours for that raid.
It's not really the devs fault if you decide you would rather do a tier you are vastly over geared for and as a result get gear that won't help you improve your teams.
You are missing the point. Not everyone in the game is level 85 with highly geared toons. Many guilds have a mix of upper an lower level players. Maybe I should be ding a Tier 4 or 5, but that doesn't mean that everyone in the guild should. Higher health pools (though they should never have been as high as the started) allowed everyone in the guild to actually play the game. Moving up to higher tiers leaves newer players get less chance to compete. Worse, for my type of guild, spending more guild tokens means we're running them less often. So even while running higher tiers we'll be finishing them quicker with much longer gaps in between. The one and only upside is that we'll be getting better gear.
"Not nerfing it so hard would've been the wrong choice. " That's a matter of opinion and I happen to disagree with it. A 95% reduction in tier 1 is nothing short of over compensating for one bad decision with another opposite bad decision. Though the health pools were certainly set too high, the mechanics of the raid were the bigger problem. Personally I think a max 50% reduction would have been more than adequate.
I understand fully well that when one tier becomes too easy, move to the next tier. My point is that they nerfed the health to the tune of a 90% or so reduction. That is not the behavior of a company that has a well thought out plan, nor a well tested product. First they made it so hard that it was not t l fun. Now they've done the exact opposite, making it really easy, which is also not fun.
It's also funny that, in the early days of the raid, when people were complaining how ridiculously hard the raid was, many of the seasoned vets here were saying, even about Tier 1, that this was supposed to be an "end game" raid and it wasn't supposed to be easy.
Also, one thing to remember is the 90% reduction was only to tier 1. They did not change health % to heroic. Only the mechanics of the foe. And they also changed the mechanics of our roster. More than once. Tiers 2-6 also saw a health reduction, but it was a graduated scale. Tier 6, which is where my guild settled, was a 50% reduction. And we are attempting our first heroic this weekend. Probably more a gauge to see how close we are. The bot says we're close.
Heroic is probably the only "end game" content of the STR. I don't like the term end game, that implies that this is the hardest content that the game will see. I think of it more as, the hardest current content.
I understand fully well that when one tier becomes too easy, move to the next tier. My point is that they nerfed the health to the tune of a 90% or so reduction. That is not the behavior of a company that has a well thought out plan, nor a well tested product. First they made it so hard that it was not t l fun. Now they've done the exact opposite, making it really easy, which is also not fun.
It's also funny that, in the early days of the raid, when people were complaining how ridiculously hard the raid was, many of the seasoned vets here were saying, even about Tier 1, that this was supposed to be an "end game" raid and it wasn't supposed to be easy.
By the end though even the seasoned vets who had said that the difficulty was fine had largely changed their minds that the raid was poorly thought out. Witness the feedback thread from a few months ago where you would struggle to find 1 in every 100 posts that said it was well done.
Fact is your right, the nerf was because the raid wasn't well thought out or tested. Because of the poor design & QA they had to nerf it by such vast amounts. Not nerfing it so hard would've been the wrong choice.
Regardless you are missing the point that you aren't supposed to be doing tier 1 or 2 if you can do hpit, you're supposed to do tier 4. if you can do haat you should do tier 5, maybe tier 6. Those sith raid tiers pull their gear loot from the same respective hpit & haat loot tables for that reason. In my experience doing the tier appropriate to hpit/haat sees it taking slightly longer than hpit or haat. For example we've consistently blown through tier 4 in 12-14 hours and, because of guild rules against soloing hpit, it takes us 3-6 hours for that raid.
It's not really the devs fault if you decide you would rather do a tier you are vastly over geared for and as a result get gear that won't help you improve your teams.
You are missing the point. Not everyone in the game is level 85 with highly geared toons. Many guilds have a mix of upper an lower level players. Maybe I should be ding a Tier 4 or 5, but that doesn't mean that everyone in the guild should. Higher health pools (though they should never have been as high as the started) allowed everyone in the guild to actually play the game. Moving up to higher tiers leaves newer players get less chance to compete. Worse, for my type of guild, spending more guild tokens means we're running them less often. So even while running higher tiers we'll be finishing them quicker with much longer gaps in between. The one and only upside is that we'll be getting better gear.
No I'm really not. Whether it was old tier1/2 or new tier 4 your newest members aren't in a place to compete with your advanced members. Unless your guild is really different from everyone elses the heavy hitters of your guild are the ones taking reward tiers 1-10 which means your newest members are in the 50-20 reward tier bracket that doesn't offer meaningful quantities of gear.
From pit to STR every raid has been scaled so higher tiers cost more to launch meaning you run them less often with the major major pro being you get a shot at much better gear. Not running the raid more often isn't really a sound argument for why you should run a lower tier since in every raid the lower tiers offer objectively less useful gear/guild currency rewards than higher tiers.
What your argument logically boils down to is that you shouldn't run hpit either if not every member can solo it and besides you can run tier 1 7 days a week instead of hpit 3 times a week. Unless you have guild rules banning your heavy hitters from taking a reward tier 1-20 spot in raids you aren't actually helping your weakest members but what you are doing is actively hampering every members ability to advance toons beyond g8.
"Not nerfing it so hard would've been the wrong choice. " That's a matter of opinion and I happen to disagree with it. A 95% reduction in tier 1 is nothing short of over compensating for one bad decision with another opposite bad decision. Though the health pools were certainly set too high, the mechanics of the raid were the bigger problem. Personally I think a max 50% reduction would have been more than adequate.
Sure for your guild 50% might mean you just take 1-2 days for tier one. But for the guilds that tier is actually meant for 50% would mean 2-3 days shaved off of a 2+ week grind. The devs scaled the health reduction based off of the GP each tier is intended for, not based off of the assumption that guilds that were massively overgeared for the tier would intentionally run tiers that didn't offer them gear that was actually useful to advancing further in the game.
The people finishing 1-10 in a T1/2 Sith Raid will be the ones finishing 1-10 on a T4 or T5.
@RebelLion your argument is invalid. Go look at the #1 Prize Box for T1 and the #30 prize box for T4. I bet you'll find that your #1 reward box from blasting a T1 is almost exactly what a low GP member will earn at #30 on T4. Except he's getting way more appropriate and useable gear. Which would you rather have on an approximate 4-5 day cycle? You'll burn through raid tickets too fast launching low tier raids and you'd be better off launching +1 or +2 tiers higher.
The people finishing 1-10 in a T1/2 Sith Raid will be the ones finishing 1-10 on a T4 or T5.
@RebelLion your argument is invalid. Go look at the #1 Prize Box for T1 and the #30 prize box for T4. I bet you'll find that your #1 reward box from blasting a T1 is almost exactly what a low GP member will earn at #30 on T4. Except he's getting way more appropriate and useable gear. Which would you rather have on an approximate 4-5 day cycle? You'll burn through raid tickets too fast launching low tier raids and you'd be better off launching +1 or +2 tiers higher.
You didn't read my argument. It had nothing to do with gear.
I understand fully well that when one tier becomes too easy, move to the next tier. My point is that they nerfed the health to the tune of a 90% or so reduction. That is not the behavior of a company that has a well thought out plan, nor a well tested product. First they made it so hard that it was not t l fun. Now they've done the exact opposite, making it really easy, which is also not fun.
It's also funny that, in the early days of the raid, when people were complaining how ridiculously hard the raid was, many of the seasoned vets here were saying, even about Tier 1, that this was supposed to be an "end game" raid and it wasn't supposed to be easy.
By the end though even the seasoned vets who had said that the difficulty was fine had largely changed their minds that the raid was poorly thought out. Witness the feedback thread from a few months ago where you would struggle to find 1 in every 100 posts that said it was well done.
Fact is your right, the nerf was because the raid wasn't well thought out or tested. Because of the poor design & QA they had to nerf it by such vast amounts. Not nerfing it so hard would've been the wrong choice.
Regardless you are missing the point that you aren't supposed to be doing tier 1 or 2 if you can do hpit, you're supposed to do tier 4. if you can do haat you should do tier 5, maybe tier 6. Those sith raid tiers pull their gear loot from the same respective hpit & haat loot tables for that reason. In my experience doing the tier appropriate to hpit/haat sees it taking slightly longer than hpit or haat. For example we've consistently blown through tier 4 in 12-14 hours and, because of guild rules against soloing hpit, it takes us 3-6 hours for that raid.
It's not really the devs fault if you decide you would rather do a tier you are vastly over geared for and as a result get gear that won't help you improve your teams.
You are missing the point. Not everyone in the game is level 85 with highly geared toons. Many guilds have a mix of upper an lower level players. Maybe I should be ding a Tier 4 or 5, but that doesn't mean that everyone in the guild should. Higher health pools (though they should never have been as high as the started) allowed everyone in the guild to actually play the game. Moving up to higher tiers leaves newer players get less chance to compete. Worse, for my type of guild, spending more guild tokens means we're running them less often. So even while running higher tiers we'll be finishing them quicker with much longer gaps in between. The one and only upside is that we'll be getting better gear.
No I'm really not. Whether it was old tier1/2 or new tier 4 your newest members aren't in a place to compete with your advanced members. Unless your guild is really different from everyone elses the heavy hitters of your guild are the ones taking reward tiers 1-10 which means your newest members are in the 50-20 reward tier bracket that doesn't offer meaningful quantities of gear.
From pit to STR every raid has been scaled so higher tiers cost more to launch meaning you run them less often with the major major pro being you get a shot at much better gear. Not running the raid more often isn't really a sound argument for why you should run a lower tier since in every raid the lower tiers offer objectively less useful gear/guild currency rewards than higher tiers.
What your argument logically boils down to is that you shouldn't run hpit either if not every member can solo it and besides you can run tier 1 7 days a week instead of hpit 3 times a week. Unless you have guild rules banning your heavy hitters from taking a reward tier 1-20 spot in raids you aren't actually helping your weakest members but what you are doing is actively hampering every members ability to advance toons beyond g8.
"Not nerfing it so hard would've been the wrong choice. " That's a matter of opinion and I happen to disagree with it. A 95% reduction in tier 1 is nothing short of over compensating for one bad decision with another opposite bad decision. Though the health pools were certainly set too high, the mechanics of the raid were the bigger problem. Personally I think a max 50% reduction would have been more than adequate.
Sure for your guild 50% might mean you just take 1-2 days for tier one. But for the guilds that tier is actually meant for 50% would mean 2-3 days shaved off of a 2+ week grind. The devs scaled the health reduction based off of the GP each tier is intended for, not based off of the assumption that guilds that were massively overgeared for the tier would intentionally run tiers that didn't offer them gear that was actually useful to advancing further in the game.
Cutting the health pool by 50% would mean only shaving 2 days off a 14 day raid? Not sure I can agree with your math. And, fixing the mechanics of the raid (ie, making Nihlus more predictable) also helps. My argument seems to be the opposite of what you think it is. I never said lower level players should be able to compete with higher level players. IMO, soloing raids is bad for the game.
I understand fully well that when one tier becomes too easy, move to the next tier. My point is that they nerfed the health to the tune of a 90% or so reduction. That is not the behavior of a company that has a well thought out plan, nor a well tested product. First they made it so hard that it was not t l fun. Now they've done the exact opposite, making it really easy, which is also not fun.
It's also funny that, in the early days of the raid, when people were complaining how ridiculously hard the raid was, many of the seasoned vets here were saying, even about Tier 1, that this was supposed to be an "end game" raid and it wasn't supposed to be easy.
By the end though even the seasoned vets who had said that the difficulty was fine had largely changed their minds that the raid was poorly thought out. Witness the feedback thread from a few months ago where you would struggle to find 1 in every 100 posts that said it was well done.
Fact is your right, the nerf was because the raid wasn't well thought out or tested. Because of the poor design & QA they had to nerf it by such vast amounts. Not nerfing it so hard would've been the wrong choice.
Regardless you are missing the point that you aren't supposed to be doing tier 1 or 2 if you can do hpit, you're supposed to do tier 4. if you can do haat you should do tier 5, maybe tier 6. Those sith raid tiers pull their gear loot from the same respective hpit & haat loot tables for that reason. In my experience doing the tier appropriate to hpit/haat sees it taking slightly longer than hpit or haat. For example we've consistently blown through tier 4 in 12-14 hours and, because of guild rules against soloing hpit, it takes us 3-6 hours for that raid.
It's not really the devs fault if you decide you would rather do a tier you are vastly over geared for and as a result get gear that won't help you improve your teams.
You are missing the point. Not everyone in the game is level 85 with highly geared toons. Many guilds have a mix of upper an lower level players. Maybe I should be ding a Tier 4 or 5, but that doesn't mean that everyone in the guild should. Higher health pools (though they should never have been as high as the started) allowed everyone in the guild to actually play the game. Moving up to higher tiers leaves newer players get less chance to compete. Worse, for my type of guild, spending more guild tokens means we're running them less often. So even while running higher tiers we'll be finishing them quicker with much longer gaps in between. The one and only upside is that we'll be getting better gear.
No I'm really not. Whether it was old tier1/2 or new tier 4 your newest members aren't in a place to compete with your advanced members. Unless your guild is really different from everyone elses the heavy hitters of your guild are the ones taking reward tiers 1-10 which means your newest members are in the 50-20 reward tier bracket that doesn't offer meaningful quantities of gear.
From pit to STR every raid has been scaled so higher tiers cost more to launch meaning you run them less often with the major major pro being you get a shot at much better gear. Not running the raid more often isn't really a sound argument for why you should run a lower tier since in every raid the lower tiers offer objectively less useful gear/guild currency rewards than higher tiers.
What your argument logically boils down to is that you shouldn't run hpit either if not every member can solo it and besides you can run tier 1 7 days a week instead of hpit 3 times a week. Unless you have guild rules banning your heavy hitters from taking a reward tier 1-20 spot in raids you aren't actually helping your weakest members but what you are doing is actively hampering every members ability to advance toons beyond g8.
"Not nerfing it so hard would've been the wrong choice. " That's a matter of opinion and I happen to disagree with it. A 95% reduction in tier 1 is nothing short of over compensating for one bad decision with another opposite bad decision. Though the health pools were certainly set too high, the mechanics of the raid were the bigger problem. Personally I think a max 50% reduction would have been more than adequate.
Sure for your guild 50% might mean you just take 1-2 days for tier one. But for the guilds that tier is actually meant for 50% would mean 2-3 days shaved off of a 2+ week grind. The devs scaled the health reduction based off of the GP each tier is intended for, not based off of the assumption that guilds that were massively overgeared for the tier would intentionally run tiers that didn't offer them gear that was actually useful to advancing further in the game.
Cutting the health pool by 50% would mean only shaving 2 days off a 14 day raid? Not sure I can agree with your math. And, fixing the mechanics of the raid (ie, making Nihlus more predictable) also helps. My argument seems to be the opposite of what you think it is. I never said lower level players should be able to compete with higher level players. IMO, soloing raids is bad for the game.
My math wasn't literal, rather just meant to get the point that it would be insufficient to have a meaningful difference for the guilds the tier is meant for.
Regardless you are outright ignoring all of us pointing out you solo it because you are doing a tier far too low for your guild and that you wouldn't solo the raid if you did the tier(s) appropriate to your guild strength. Again it's not the dev's fault you blow through a tier you are massively overheated for.
This said you said the one benefit to a higher tier is gear appropriate to your level. So what benefit does your guild get by doing a tier where none of the gear rewards are useful to you? Like how does your guild benefit from spending raid tokens more often if the gear payout isn't useful to your guild.
I understand fully well that when one tier becomes too easy, move to the next tier. My point is that they nerfed the health to the tune of a 90% or so reduction. That is not the behavior of a company that has a well thought out plan, nor a well tested product. First they made it so hard that it was not t l fun. Now they've done the exact opposite, making it really easy, which is also not fun.
It's also funny that, in the early days of the raid, when people were complaining how ridiculously hard the raid was, many of the seasoned vets here were saying, even about Tier 1, that this was supposed to be an "end game" raid and it wasn't supposed to be easy.
By the end though even the seasoned vets who had said that the difficulty was fine had largely changed their minds that the raid was poorly thought out. Witness the feedback thread from a few months ago where you would struggle to find 1 in every 100 posts that said it was well done.
Fact is your right, the nerf was because the raid wasn't well thought out or tested. Because of the poor design & QA they had to nerf it by such vast amounts. Not nerfing it so hard would've been the wrong choice.
Regardless you are missing the point that you aren't supposed to be doing tier 1 or 2 if you can do hpit, you're supposed to do tier 4. if you can do haat you should do tier 5, maybe tier 6. Those sith raid tiers pull their gear loot from the same respective hpit & haat loot tables for that reason. In my experience doing the tier appropriate to hpit/haat sees it taking slightly longer than hpit or haat. For example we've consistently blown through tier 4 in 12-14 hours and, because of guild rules against soloing hpit, it takes us 3-6 hours for that raid.
It's not really the devs fault if you decide you would rather do a tier you are vastly over geared for and as a result get gear that won't help you improve your teams.
You are missing the point. Not everyone in the game is level 85 with highly geared toons. Many guilds have a mix of upper an lower level players. Maybe I should be ding a Tier 4 or 5, but that doesn't mean that everyone in the guild should. Higher health pools (though they should never have been as high as the started) allowed everyone in the guild to actually play the game. Moving up to higher tiers leaves newer players get less chance to compete. Worse, for my type of guild, spending more guild tokens means we're running them less often. So even while running higher tiers we'll be finishing them quicker with much longer gaps in between. The one and only upside is that we'll be getting better gear.
No I'm really not. Whether it was old tier1/2 or new tier 4 your newest members aren't in a place to compete with your advanced members. Unless your guild is really different from everyone elses the heavy hitters of your guild are the ones taking reward tiers 1-10 which means your newest members are in the 50-20 reward tier bracket that doesn't offer meaningful quantities of gear.
From pit to STR every raid has been scaled so higher tiers cost more to launch meaning you run them less often with the major major pro being you get a shot at much better gear. Not running the raid more often isn't really a sound argument for why you should run a lower tier since in every raid the lower tiers offer objectively less useful gear/guild currency rewards than higher tiers.
What your argument logically boils down to is that you shouldn't run hpit either if not every member can solo it and besides you can run tier 1 7 days a week instead of hpit 3 times a week. Unless you have guild rules banning your heavy hitters from taking a reward tier 1-20 spot in raids you aren't actually helping your weakest members but what you are doing is actively hampering every members ability to advance toons beyond g8.
"Not nerfing it so hard would've been the wrong choice. " That's a matter of opinion and I happen to disagree with it. A 95% reduction in tier 1 is nothing short of over compensating for one bad decision with another opposite bad decision. Though the health pools were certainly set too high, the mechanics of the raid were the bigger problem. Personally I think a max 50% reduction would have been more than adequate.
Sure for your guild 50% might mean you just take 1-2 days for tier one. But for the guilds that tier is actually meant for 50% would mean 2-3 days shaved off of a 2+ week grind. The devs scaled the health reduction based off of the GP each tier is intended for, not based off of the assumption that guilds that were massively overgeared for the tier would intentionally run tiers that didn't offer them gear that was actually useful to advancing further in the game.
Cutting the health pool by 50% would mean only shaving 2 days off a 14 day raid? Not sure I can agree with your math. And, fixing the mechanics of the raid (ie, making Nihlus more predictable) also helps. My argument seems to be the opposite of what you think it is. I never said lower level players should be able to compete with higher level players. IMO, soloing raids is bad for the game.
My math wasn't literal, rather just meant to get the point that it would be insufficient to have a meaningful difference for the guilds the tier is meant for.
Regardless you are outright ignoring all of us pointing out you solo it because you are doing a tier far too low for your guild and that you wouldn't solo the raid if you did the tier(s) appropriate to your guild strength. Again it's not the dev's fault you blow through a tier you are massively overheated for.
This said you said the one benefit to a higher tier is gear appropriate to your level. So what benefit does your guild get by doing a tier where none of the gear rewards are useful to you? Like how does your guild benefit from spending raid tokens more often if the gear payout isn't useful to your guild.
Don't people solo the Heroic Rancor? Isn't that the highest level?
I am not ignoring your point any more than everyone is ignoring mine. I have stated multiple times that the obvious benefit to doing higher difficulty raids is that you get better gear, yet almost everyone has said my argument is invalid because you get better gear for doing higher levels. [scratches head]
Many (I dare say most) guilds aren't made up of all level 40-49 players, etc; they are made up of a wide range of player level. The benefit my guild gets by doing a lower tier is that more people get to play the game, like actually participate in battles and stuff.
Don't people solo the Heroic Rancor? Isn't that the highest level?
Ok 1) that raid is old 2)the proper comparison would be soloing hsith, not tier 1 of STR 3) if you could solo hsith you wouldn't be arguing that blowing through tier 1 hurts your guild...
I am not ignoring your point any more than everyone is ignoring mine. I have stated multiple times that the obvious benefit to doing higher difficulty raids is that you get better gear,
Yes you admit as much yet insist that is NOT a good reason to do a tier more well suited to your guild.
yet almost everyone has said my argument is invalid because you get better gear for doing higher levels. [scratches head]
Because you simultaneously insist that getting better gear isn't a good reason to do a tier appropriate to your level and that you would rather do tier 1 which by logical extension means you willfully want to get worse rewards than your guild is capable of earning.
Your logic again boils down to your guild benefits more from doing ANY raid (pit, aat, STR) at tier 1 than it does from doing a tier appropriate to your overall guild strength and we're calling you out on having logic that is actively harmful to every member of your guild.
Many (I dare say most) guilds aren't made up of all level 40-49 players, etc; they are made up of a wide range of player level. The benefit my guild gets by doing a lower tier is that more people get to play the game, like actually participate in battles and stuff.
Which is a contradiction since by your own admission your guild being massively over powered for tier 1-2 since you clear it in a matter of hours which means they don't get a chance yet you insist that we're wrong suggesting that the obvious solution is to just do a tier appropriate to your overall guild strength which would mean they would once again get a chance to participate.
The question remains though how your guild actually benefits from doing a tier that offers rewards that are useless to them. Sure everyone got a chance to participate with the old health pools but how did participation actually benefit them if the rewards weren't helpful? Presumably your guild is doing the raid to get the rewards to improve in the game and not just out of lack of literally anything better to do in their lives than log 5 attacks each day for absolutely no in game benefit.
Your entire argument hinges on the idea that doing tier 1-2 with closer to old health levels was better for your guild than being able to do the updated raid at higher tiers in the same time frame as old tier 1 for better rewards with equal participation among all your guild members. That is illogical.
Replies
Qira's unique isn't giving allies health steal up when it should, when I play her in our tier 6, phase 1 Sith Raid. I have yet to try it in any other phase, but retreated several times and it just wasn't working in phase 1.
I took that same exact team into GW and it worked just fine. Bug, or something I'm not aware of?
I think the question answers itself. If it's too easy, it's not fun. Moving up several tiers means doing less raids as it costs more raid tickets. So they're over quick with long periods of time in between. That is also less fun. I actually like playing this game, but these days it's mostly just simming through everything.
The goal is to find the raid tier where you refill the raid ticket amount required just as or just after the raid ends. Depends on if your Guild likes having a day off between.
Nobody is claiming you have to only do rapid-fire raids. It used to take our small Guild several days to do a T4 and we'd have just enough tickets after to re-launch. We test-launched a T4 after the update and it was done in hours. We just launched a T5 and it's taking about as long as our 4's so we'll have enough tickets to do it again. Fits our needs perfectly.
You are missing the point. Not everyone in the game is level 85 with highly geared toons. Many guilds have a mix of upper an lower level players. Maybe I should be ding a Tier 4 or 5, but that doesn't mean that everyone in the guild should. Higher health pools (though they should never have been as high as the started) allowed everyone in the guild to actually play the game. Moving up to higher tiers leaves newer players get less chance to compete. Worse, for my type of guild, spending more guild tokens means we're running them less often. So even while running higher tiers we'll be finishing them quicker with much longer gaps in between. The one and only upside is that we'll be getting better gear.
"Not nerfing it so hard would've been the wrong choice. " That's a matter of opinion and I happen to disagree with it. A 95% reduction in tier 1 is nothing short of over compensating for one bad decision with another opposite bad decision. Though the health pools were certainly set too high, the mechanics of the raid were the bigger problem. Personally I think a max 50% reduction would have been more than adequate.
Also, one thing to remember is the 90% reduction was only to tier 1. They did not change health % to heroic. Only the mechanics of the foe. And they also changed the mechanics of our roster. More than once. Tiers 2-6 also saw a health reduction, but it was a graduated scale. Tier 6, which is where my guild settled, was a 50% reduction. And we are attempting our first heroic this weekend. Probably more a gauge to see how close we are. The bot says we're close.
Heroic is probably the only "end game" content of the STR. I don't like the term end game, that implies that this is the hardest content that the game will see. I think of it more as, the hardest current content.
No I'm really not. Whether it was old tier1/2 or new tier 4 your newest members aren't in a place to compete with your advanced members. Unless your guild is really different from everyone elses the heavy hitters of your guild are the ones taking reward tiers 1-10 which means your newest members are in the 50-20 reward tier bracket that doesn't offer meaningful quantities of gear.
From pit to STR every raid has been scaled so higher tiers cost more to launch meaning you run them less often with the major major pro being you get a shot at much better gear. Not running the raid more often isn't really a sound argument for why you should run a lower tier since in every raid the lower tiers offer objectively less useful gear/guild currency rewards than higher tiers.
What your argument logically boils down to is that you shouldn't run hpit either if not every member can solo it and besides you can run tier 1 7 days a week instead of hpit 3 times a week. Unless you have guild rules banning your heavy hitters from taking a reward tier 1-20 spot in raids you aren't actually helping your weakest members but what you are doing is actively hampering every members ability to advance toons beyond g8.
Sure for your guild 50% might mean you just take 1-2 days for tier one. But for the guilds that tier is actually meant for 50% would mean 2-3 days shaved off of a 2+ week grind. The devs scaled the health reduction based off of the GP each tier is intended for, not based off of the assumption that guilds that were massively overgeared for the tier would intentionally run tiers that didn't offer them gear that was actually useful to advancing further in the game.
@RebelLion your argument is invalid. Go look at the #1 Prize Box for T1 and the #30 prize box for T4. I bet you'll find that your #1 reward box from blasting a T1 is almost exactly what a low GP member will earn at #30 on T4. Except he's getting way more appropriate and useable gear. Which would you rather have on an approximate 4-5 day cycle? You'll burn through raid tickets too fast launching low tier raids and you'd be better off launching +1 or +2 tiers higher.
You didn't read my argument. It had nothing to do with gear.
Cutting the health pool by 50% would mean only shaving 2 days off a 14 day raid? Not sure I can agree with your math. And, fixing the mechanics of the raid (ie, making Nihlus more predictable) also helps. My argument seems to be the opposite of what you think it is. I never said lower level players should be able to compete with higher level players. IMO, soloing raids is bad for the game.
My math wasn't literal, rather just meant to get the point that it would be insufficient to have a meaningful difference for the guilds the tier is meant for.
Regardless you are outright ignoring all of us pointing out you solo it because you are doing a tier far too low for your guild and that you wouldn't solo the raid if you did the tier(s) appropriate to your guild strength. Again it's not the dev's fault you blow through a tier you are massively overheated for.
This said you said the one benefit to a higher tier is gear appropriate to your level. So what benefit does your guild get by doing a tier where none of the gear rewards are useful to you? Like how does your guild benefit from spending raid tokens more often if the gear payout isn't useful to your guild.
Don't people solo the Heroic Rancor? Isn't that the highest level?
I am not ignoring your point any more than everyone is ignoring mine. I have stated multiple times that the obvious benefit to doing higher difficulty raids is that you get better gear, yet almost everyone has said my argument is invalid because you get better gear for doing higher levels. [scratches head]
Many (I dare say most) guilds aren't made up of all level 40-49 players, etc; they are made up of a wide range of player level. The benefit my guild gets by doing a lower tier is that more people get to play the game, like actually participate in battles and stuff.
Ok 1) that raid is old 2)the proper comparison would be soloing hsith, not tier 1 of STR 3) if you could solo hsith you wouldn't be arguing that blowing through tier 1 hurts your guild...
Yes you admit as much yet insist that is NOT a good reason to do a tier more well suited to your guild.
Because you simultaneously insist that getting better gear isn't a good reason to do a tier appropriate to your level and that you would rather do tier 1 which by logical extension means you willfully want to get worse rewards than your guild is capable of earning.
Your logic again boils down to your guild benefits more from doing ANY raid (pit, aat, STR) at tier 1 than it does from doing a tier appropriate to your overall guild strength and we're calling you out on having logic that is actively harmful to every member of your guild.
Which is a contradiction since by your own admission your guild being massively over powered for tier 1-2 since you clear it in a matter of hours which means they don't get a chance yet you insist that we're wrong suggesting that the obvious solution is to just do a tier appropriate to your overall guild strength which would mean they would once again get a chance to participate.
The question remains though how your guild actually benefits from doing a tier that offers rewards that are useless to them. Sure everyone got a chance to participate with the old health pools but how did participation actually benefit them if the rewards weren't helpful? Presumably your guild is doing the raid to get the rewards to improve in the game and not just out of lack of literally anything better to do in their lives than log 5 attacks each day for absolutely no in game benefit.
Your entire argument hinges on the idea that doing tier 1-2 with closer to old health levels was better for your guild than being able to do the updated raid at higher tiers in the same time frame as old tier 1 for better rewards with equal participation among all your guild members. That is illogical.