Shardchat destroys fun

Replies

  • Kyno wrote: »
    The simple fact is, to get to 1st - it doesn't take skill in beating enemies - it takes collusion between enemies. This can't be the intended system. Nobody would design it like this knowing it would turn out that way.

    I refuse to believe that was how it was meant to be played. It's simply the monster they created & the devs can't think of a better solution.

    Anyone who doesnt think it takes skill to make a proper setup, have strategies in place to have the right materials, kill order, and turn order, should look at the multitude of threads that popped up about the current meta and time outs and compare that to the number of threads after his first release.

    There is some skill involved in this game.

    Also, not every shard hands out wins. Our shard doesnt swap teams so someone can win. Each shard chat is different and shouldnt all be considered to be the worst example people have heard of.

    Just to clarify this: I don’t want „help“ to rank up. I don’t need „help“ to rank up. As I said I accomplished high ranks without a shard chat. But even chats which don’t change teams can team up and attack/pick you after another. and I don’t believe there are alot of „nice chats“ where they let you live on your own without memberships
  • Droideka wrote: »
    They just need to scramble shards with other shards created around the same time every once in a while, or at least with older shards. It would help break up the mafias that control some shards.

    THIS. Just this. Thanks for that recommendation Sir.
  • mvmss wrote: »
    Noxfire27 wrote: »
    mvmss wrote: »
    Noxfire27 wrote: »
    mvmss wrote: »
    No, it doesn't.

    What would you have lost, by joining the shard chat?

    It's simply a way to be gregarious, cooperate and maximize returns, to stay competitive. There are plenty of people to hit when climbing and I see nothing wrong in being civil about it.

    I had an issue in fleet, with a Russian guy always attacking me on my payout, which was the same as his. We were the only ones on the same payout and, yet, he would always attack me while climbing. He would not reply in game, nor on Discord. I reached out to his guild leader, who was quite nice, and no reply from him. One day, I got fed up and I locked him at 17, I think. We could both be #1 and #2, but since he would always attack me, I burned crystals to hell and locked him there. On the 3rd day of this back and forth nonsense, both of us missing out on hundreds of crystals, he reached out swearing at me. And he, at this moment, understood that cooperating was more benefitial to both of us and it has been this way, ever since.

    You may have learned a lesson for life right there. In the end, you are the one who did not join when invited, so now you live with the consequences of your choices.

    This is just a game, but, in real life, certain doors will only open to you once.

    Bad excuses like this that you make up for yourself because you cheat are the main problem, not a solution. Lesson for life? Are you serious? „You have to cheat because we do, otherwise we will punish you“? It’s ridiculous that you want me to play against the rules and when I decline it’s my fault and I have to „live with the consequences“? That’s a new level of being a hypocrite. Wow.

    I am not condoning them bunching up against you and I don't ever do that. If you interpreted that from what I said, sorry for the misunderatanding.

    But, YOU were invited to the shard chat, YOU denied the invitation, so now YOU will live with the consequences of your choice, until they invite you again. It doesn't get any more clear than this. Yes, it sucks they are now picking on you, but you call them cheaters and wanna play lone wolf against a pack, good luck. They are getting to the top and it seems you are not.

    Arena is like the hunger games. Cooperation is key for maximizing rewards on a competitive environment. What you call cheating I call being smart and gregarious.

    By the way, out of curiosity, how many people are there per shard?

    I see you are already so deep into this cheatsystem that you blame the victim and defend the mafia-system. Nice. Maybe think about that.

    Heard shardsize is 20.000. but I think max. up to 5000 active players after a while

    Thanks for the info. That's quite a lot of players, tbh.

    You talk about shard chats like you've been to many of them. Well, I have only been to 2, my fleet and arena, both have very cool people from all over the world. We share strategies, recruit players, talk about other stuff other than the game. It became a little like a guild discord channel.

    What exactly would you have lost by joining the shard chat? Take a step back and rethink how things got to this point.

    Have never been to one, never will as I consider it cheating. And I don’t need another discord strategy channel as I already joined some and run a Guild server on my own. Maybe I am old fashioned but I dislike all cheating-systems that way in general. Cheating in Multiplayer is a no go for me. And it should, at least, also for the developers
  • Kyno
    22099 posts Moderator
    Noxfire27 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    The simple fact is, to get to 1st - it doesn't take skill in beating enemies - it takes collusion between enemies. This can't be the intended system. Nobody would design it like this knowing it would turn out that way.

    I refuse to believe that was how it was meant to be played. It's simply the monster they created & the devs can't think of a better solution.

    Anyone who doesnt think it takes skill to make a proper setup, have strategies in place to have the right materials, kill order, and turn order, should look at the multitude of threads that popped up about the current meta and time outs and compare that to the number of threads after his first release.

    There is some skill involved in this game.

    Also, not every shard hands out wins. Our shard doesnt swap teams so someone can win. Each shard chat is different and shouldnt all be considered to be the worst example people have heard of.

    Just to clarify this: I don’t want „help“ to rank up. I don’t need „help“ to rank up. As I said I accomplished high ranks without a shard chat. But even chats which don’t change teams can team up and attack/pick you after another. and I don’t believe there are alot of „nice chats“ where they let you live on your own without memberships

    That comment was not directed towards your situation, I understand you ste not looking for help to climb. I understand you are just looking for your fair shot.

    Our shard doesnt team up either, it's not conducive to our goal of spending less crystals, by attacking less. We have several people who are not in the chat that climb daily.
  • I got my invite by being a pain in the butt. Kept taking or nearly taking 1st for a while. Rather than continue to "deal" with me I was invited to shard chat. That's how most get added in my shard even if they only last 1 meta. The cooperation and comrodery in shard chat is one of parts of this game that makes it fun and a community. Sorry your experience is tainted but my suggestion is to keep gunning. At least now the in game chat can allow an easier experience in getting in contact with a shard chat.
  • B0baf3tt wrote: »
    I got my invite by being a pain in the butt. Kept taking or nearly taking 1st for a while. Rather than continue to "deal" with me I was invited to shard chat. That's how most get added in my shard even if they only last 1 meta. The cooperation and comrodery in shard chat is one of parts of this game that makes it fun and a community. Sorry your experience is tainted but my suggestion is to keep gunning. At least now the in game chat can allow an easier experience in getting in contact with a shard chat.

    Don’t want to join, but was of course open for a conversation about the matter. All my tries ingame were declined. They just wanted to catch my payout time to crush me. They were not interested in a conversation. Play for a very long time now, big whales up there. That’s my problem maybe that I, the dolphin, hunt in „their“ territory;)
  • My point about it not being a test of skill is around how bad the AI is.

    An average team built to counter another can usually win in most cases, the problem isn't climbing - its not even the ability to win 5/10 matches a day.

    It's 'can you dedicate the SAME 30/60mins a day to the same payout time' & 'have you got sufficent shard mates who won't push you out during the climb'.

    Neither of which require huge amounts of skill.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Noxfire27 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    The simple fact is, to get to 1st - it doesn't take skill in beating enemies - it takes collusion between enemies. This can't be the intended system. Nobody would design it like this knowing it would turn out that way.

    I refuse to believe that was how it was meant to be played. It's simply the monster they created & the devs can't think of a better solution.

    Anyone who doesnt think it takes skill to make a proper setup, have strategies in place to have the right materials, kill order, and turn order, should look at the multitude of threads that popped up about the current meta and time outs and compare that to the number of threads after his first release.

    There is some skill involved in this game.

    Also, not every shard hands out wins. Our shard doesnt swap teams so someone can win. Each shard chat is different and shouldnt all be considered to be the worst example people have heard of.

    Just to clarify this: I don’t want „help“ to rank up. I don’t need „help“ to rank up. As I said I accomplished high ranks without a shard chat. But even chats which don’t change teams can team up and attack/pick you after another. and I don’t believe there are alot of „nice chats“ where they let you live on your own without memberships

    That comment was not directed towards your situation, I understand you ste not looking for help to climb. I understand you are just looking for your fair shot.

    Our shard doesnt team up either, it's not conducive to our goal of spending less crystals, by attacking less. We have several people who are not in the chat that climb daily.

    Then please let them be. Looks I am screwed but maybe think about my situation when you ever see something similar;)
  • Smarty
    35 posts Member
    Post the players name
  • Nauros
    2989 posts Member
    Smarty wrote: »
    Post the players name

    Wouldn't that be against the forum guidelines?
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • Kyno
    22099 posts Moderator
    SirCrankz wrote: »
    Kyno i am sorry but you are wrong. I really dont mean it in a bad way. You just dont understand the game probably (which is ok - not everyone has to spend time with this game and get proffesional in it - it is just a game). Besides the simple fact that subpaar moded Treya will win against every Revan no matter how he is moded, and that in a mirror match (even though the most difficult so far) there are many many ways to guarntee a win with subpaar mods (HY, Chewy, Ezra to name a few) if a Mafia is well organizsed they will clear the path for the weaker player and than take out mods once they reach the proper place.
    There are currently 2 places where skills and brain matter a bit, and where you can find competition: GA and TW. Other than that... you have no idea what you are talking about... and i envy you, that you didt have to experience what i am talking about first hand.

    Best Regards,
    crankzy

    After playing this game for 3 plus years, I have no worries about my knowledge and experience in this game.

    But there are a large section of the player base that dont seem to have as good a grasp of the fundamentals and struggle even in this current meta. I was simply referencing them as an example of where anyone can see there are skills involved in developing a team/strategy.

    Also, it is funny that you mention TW and GA which are just variations on Arena, and say they require strategy/skill but arena does not.
  • Smarty wrote: »
    Post the players name

    I am not an Internet Justice warrior. ;)
    And it’s not really the one person or chat, it’s a game-problem. And I want to make THAT public (again).
  • Tanzos
    197 posts Member
    I think it should be "highest rank an hour before payout"

    So if your payout is 6, then however high you were from 5-6 is your rank rewards. That way it's still a climbing game but if people are sniping you before your payout, you're still earned the spot you made it too.

    The problem is there's no defense against others that do this.
  • Hortus
    179 posts Member
    mvmss wrote: »

    But, YOU were invited to the shard chat, YOU denied the invitation, so now YOU will live with the consequences of your choice, until they invite you again.

    That's a nice one comment which perfectly illustrates why many people are comparing shard chats with mafia. . :) "I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse." (c)
  • Join them. A good pack can easily deny anyone, but it is also a hassle.

    Im in a shard chat and I want to enjoy my free time during my PO once ai get 1st. Dont take that away from me and I wont have a reason to take youra away from you either.
    Cooperation and socialisation is always the right answer. Dont be an **** to others and youll be fine.
  • Kyno
    22099 posts Moderator
    Smarty wrote: »
    Post the players name

    That is against the Forum Guidelines.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    SirCrankz wrote: »
    Kyno i am sorry but you are wrong. I really dont mean it in a bad way. You just dont understand the game probably (which is ok - not everyone has to spend time with this game and get proffesional in it - it is just a game). Besides the simple fact that subpaar moded Treya will win against every Revan no matter how he is moded, and that in a mirror match (even though the most difficult so far) there are many many ways to guarntee a win with subpaar mods (HY, Chewy, Ezra to name a few) if a Mafia is well organizsed they will clear the path for the weaker player and than take out mods once they reach the proper place.
    There are currently 2 places where skills and brain matter a bit, and where you can find competition: GA and TW. Other than that... you have no idea what you are talking about... and i envy you, that you didt have to experience what i am talking about first hand.

    Best Regards,
    crankzy

    After playing this game for 3 plus years, I have no worries about my knowledge and experience in this game.

    But there are a large section of the player base that dont seem to have as good a grasp of the fundamentals and struggle even in this current meta. I was simply referencing them as an example of where anyone can see there are skills involved in developing a team/strategy.

    Also, it is funny that you mention TW and GA which are just variations on Arena, and say they require strategy/skill but arena does not.

    I think he meant there you have different troops and setups. In Arena it’s always against Revan/specific players(at least in the Top50) and after a while you don’t need great „tactics“ anymore
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Also, it is funny that you mention TW and GA which are just variations on Arena, and say they require strategy/skill but arena does not.
    Really?, you can't figure out why people think it's the case.

    1. There is no sniping/timer issues - it's a 24h period, you don't have to play at exaclty 4:00 or whatever time your payout is.
    2. You can't collude with enemies to hold back others progress/it's direct competition.

  • Join them. A good pack can easily deny anyone, but it is also a hassle.

    Im in a shard chat and I want to enjoy my free time during my PO once ai get 1st. Dont take that away from me and I wont have a reason to take youra away from you either.
    Cooperation and socialisation is always the right answer. Dont be an **** to others and youll be fine.

    Maybe consider reading before writing. Were never a di**, never pursued specific player. Just don’t want to cheat. And now you blame me?
  • Kyno
    22099 posts Moderator
    Noxfire27 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    SirCrankz wrote: »
    Kyno i am sorry but you are wrong. I really dont mean it in a bad way. You just dont understand the game probably (which is ok - not everyone has to spend time with this game and get proffesional in it - it is just a game). Besides the simple fact that subpaar moded Treya will win against every Revan no matter how he is moded, and that in a mirror match (even though the most difficult so far) there are many many ways to guarntee a win with subpaar mods (HY, Chewy, Ezra to name a few) if a Mafia is well organizsed they will clear the path for the weaker player and than take out mods once they reach the proper place.
    There are currently 2 places where skills and brain matter a bit, and where you can find competition: GA and TW. Other than that... you have no idea what you are talking about... and i envy you, that you didt have to experience what i am talking about first hand.

    Best Regards,
    crankzy

    After playing this game for 3 plus years, I have no worries about my knowledge and experience in this game.

    But there are a large section of the player base that dont seem to have as good a grasp of the fundamentals and struggle even in this current meta. I was simply referencing them as an example of where anyone can see there are skills involved in developing a team/strategy.

    Also, it is funny that you mention TW and GA which are just variations on Arena, and say they require strategy/skill but arena does not.

    I think he meant there you have different troops and setups. In Arena it’s always against Revan/specific players(at least in the Top50) and after a while you don’t need great „tactics“ anymore

    I never said you need great tactics, but to say it takes no skill is not true. That is why when Revan became more wide spread and filled arena, we started to see more complaints about timeouts. People timeout because they dont understand who to sub in, who to mod for what turn order, what kill order, and other fundamentals of combat. I was simply stating that those are skills some of us have or have developed over time of playing this game. There is also a long term strategy or skill in planning development to make sure you have proper mods and sets to make it easier to win or win more consistently, but also farm the toons required to stay flexible.
  • I think you should consider reaching out to them. Message a few people at the top around your payout and ask who you should avoid in your payout, the payout 1 hour before you and in the 2 hours after you. If they are at all reasonable they will let you know who to avoid and stop targeting you if you avoid them.

    If you continue to attack people around their payouts though, they will continue to assume your initial rejection of the invitation to join was a specific - "F. U. I don't care about you loosing crystals because of my high and mighty concerns with 'cheating' which I define using a rule book I made up for myself that no one else has seen." - because right now that's probably how they see your thinking.

    Due to human nature - as a group they will not change that opinion without quite a bit of a push. You as an individual could take a step back and very easily see the situation from their point of view if you chose to. You are a nuisance to them, costing them crystals and making them pay attention to the game when they could otherwise be living their lives. Of course they are going to target you. If you were a new player who didn't know about shard chats maybe they'd be more forgiving but it sounds like you are pretty experienced and know exactly what you are doing.

    P.S. not making any judgement on whether it should be like this... I don't think it should... but it is. With that in mind you may want to take some action to make the best of the situation. The above is the only thing that realistically is going to work unless you enjoy spending a lot of crystals to have a war with them and annoy them (which is also totally legitimate but from your complaints about being targeted I guess that's not the case).
  • I wonder if they could just make it so that you cannot see your opponents name in arena. Just see their rank and squad and that is it. The idea of shard chats seem so gross to me. I wish cg would do something to get rid of this in the game.
  • Kyno
    22099 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Also, it is funny that you mention TW and GA which are just variations on Arena, and say they require strategy/skill but arena does not.
    Really?, you can't figure out why people think it's the case.

    1. There is no sniping/timer issues - it's a 24h period, you don't have to play at exaclty 4:00 or whatever time your payout is.
    2. You can't collude with enemies to hold back others progress/it's direct competition.

    Those are all great differences and examples of why they are different (and possibly a better) game modes, but not how one requires skill to win a battle and the other does not.

    They require the same base skills of battle and character knowledge. GA and TW require more skill and knowledge as they are broader subjects and other factors to consider.

    Anyway this is getting off topic. Sorry.
  • Noxfire27 wrote: »
    mvmss wrote: »
    No, it doesn't.

    What would you have lost, by joining the shard chat?

    It's simply a way to be gregarious, cooperate and maximize returns, to stay competitive. There are plenty of people to hit when climbing and I see nothing wrong in being civil about it.

    I had an issue in fleet, with a Russian guy always attacking me on my payout, which was the same as his. We were the only ones on the same payout and, yet, he would always attack me while climbing. He would not reply in game, nor on Discord. I reached out to his guild leader, who was quite nice, and no reply from him. One day, I got fed up and I locked him at 17, I think. We could both be #1 and #2, but since he would always attack me, I burned crystals to hell and locked him there. On the 3rd day of this back and forth nonsense, both of us missing out on hundreds of crystals, he reached out swearing at me. And he, at this moment, understood that cooperating was more benefitial to both of us and it has been this way, ever since.

    You may have learned a lesson for life right there. In the end, you are the one who did not join when invited, so now you live with the consequences of your choices.

    This is just a game, but, in real life, certain doors will only open to you once.

    Bad excuses like this that you make up for yourself because you cheat are the main problem, not a solution. Lesson for life? Are you serious? „You have to cheat because we do, otherwise we will punish you“? It’s ridiculous that you want me to play against the rules and when I decline it’s my fault and I have to „live with the consequences“? That’s a new level of being a hypocrite. Wow.

    talking with other players is not cheating, it's just simply coordinating and being courteous to other players.

    in order for it to be cheating there has to be a rule against it. seeing that they have in game chat, it is working as intended.
  • I think you should consider reaching out to them. Message a few people at the top around your payout and ask who you should avoid in your payout, the payout 1 hour before you and in the 2 hours after you. If they are at all reasonable they will let you know who to avoid and stop targeting you if you avoid them.

    If you continue to attack people around their payouts though, they will continue to assume your initial rejection of the invitation to join was a specific - "F. U. I don't care about you loosing crystals because of my high and mighty concerns with 'cheating' which I define using a rule book I made up for myself that no one else has seen." - because right now that's probably how they see your thinking.

    Due to human nature - as a group they will not change that opinion without quite a bit of a push. You as an individual could take a step back and very easily see the situation from their point of view if you chose to. You are a nuisance to them, costing them crystals and making them pay attention to the game when they could otherwise be living their lives. Of course they are going to target you. If you were a new player who didn't know about shard chats maybe they'd be more forgiving but it sounds like you are pretty experienced and know exactly what you are doing.

    P.S. not making any judgement on whether it should be like this... I don't think it should... but it is. With that in mind you may want to take some action to make the best of the situation. The above is the only thing that realistically is going to work unless you enjoy spending a lot of crystals to have a war with them and annoy them (which is also totally legitimate but from your complaints about being targeted I guess that's not the case).

    Like I already said they decline all approaches. And sorry, but your assumption of „F. U. I don't care about you loosing crystals because of my high and mighty concerns with 'cheating' which I define using a rule book I made up for myself that no one else has seen." shows how you really think about this topic. I „define“ cheating as taking advantage (especially in Multiplayer) over others (players, not environment like raids) using a method which is not intended by the developers. Ask CG/EA as developer what they think about shard chats...
  • 7AnimalMother
    1713 posts Member
    edited March 11
    I love whine threads like these.

    Shard chats are not cheating and are the inevitable response to a crappy system set up by CG. You can claim cheating all you wan't, but there are no rules whatsoever regarding them. They also won't be getting "shuffled" or nixed. CG is wise enough to know that the vast majority of paying customers cared about the game to join such chats. CG also knows that the game is pretty mediocre, and that any social interaction between paying customers supports the continuance of the money flow. In short, messing with shards would mess with many people's reason for continuing to play and pay.

    If you aren't in a chat and your shard has been around since the beginning of the game, good luck getting in now. It's not in the best interests of the players already in the chat. Protecting position is of vital importance. Every hit has the potential to cause a refresh and crystal expenditure. Therefore, it is in a chats best interest to discourage climbing into the top 10. In newer chats or weak older chats, a persistent player may eventually force his way into the chat (or a simple acknowledgment that they are going to climb), but solid chats are just going to shut new climbers down. This is a zero sum game. Why should any of us allow someone else (especially a one meta wonder) to climb if it means it costs us more crystals?


    P.S. Shard chats are certainly in the "spirit of the game". Remember, the spirit of this game is shafting people for money.

    P.****. Per the title. "Shardchat destroys fun". Quite the opposite. Being in a chat and getting to know people is one of the most fun parts of this game. Also, smashing interlopers is a great big ball of fun.


    Post edited by 7AnimalMother on
  • Nikoms565
    11959 posts Member
    edited March 11
    Noxfire27 wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Shard chats are simply a way for players to work around poor game design (that makes you play at a specific time by having rewards tied to rank based on that specific time). Chat just allows players to play when they can and not have to be on at 5 minutes before payout to guarantee not being sniped.

    It also helps facilitate maximum payouts for people around "busy" payout times - since arena shards were not assigned based on "x number of players per payout times". In fact, since we can (finally) change our payout times, many shard chats actually help redistribute payout times so there is less conflict near the top, by spreading out the active payouts times.

    I am NOT defending the behavior of players who run their shard chats more like a "mafia" - join, comply or get crushed. But I would suggest two things:

    1) Shard chats can serve a greater good (better QOL for players that cooperate)
    2) It's silly for players with the same payout times NOT to try to figure out how to cooperate/work together to maximize crystals, as opposed to constantly knock each other back and forth - all that does is waste crystals in refreshing and leaves unpaid max rewards at the top during those payout times.

    Now, I also realize that not everyone who just got a new Revan, and has now decided after 3 years of ignoring shard chats and disregarding other players' payouts times, is going to warmly welcomed by their respective shard chats now. Honestly, them's the berries.

    Funny that you say you don’t like chats which operate like a „mafia“ and your last sentence/paragraph (correct me if I am wrong) tells that you are NEVER allowed to be stronger at some point in this game because you HAVE to be a whale and join the shardchat. As if it was their right.

    I'm correcting you, as per your request, because you are misunderstanding - drastically.

    The last paragraph is simply suggesting that if you have spent the last 2 years, ignoring shard chat and ignoring other players payout times and just attacking players when it was convenient for you, then, expecting all the people whose payouts you've been stomping on for the past 2 years to suddenly welcome you with open arms, because you decided to get Revan (or whatever the met-defining character is this quarter) is niave and self-centered.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • posts like these make me sick, players owning up to frauding the system and working around the clock for equal payouts.. remarkable how the devs over look this system.

    A real hats off applause to you all who reject the chat thing and earn your rank, you’re the real winners.
This discussion has been closed.