Shardchat destroys fun

Replies

  • 7AnimalMother
    1507 posts Member
    edited March 11
    But with this bad meta, where anyone can climb and beat anyone else....a greater light is being shined on them. (Shard chats)
    BECAUSE just anyone is capable of climbing much higher now than they could before = directly affecting shard chats that deal with the top 20-25 daily ranking players / whales etc.

    I would debate this in all honesty. Revan does not = auto win. There is a distinct cut in my shard (and likely many shards) between the teams of the guys who are part of the chat and routinely hit every meta vs the squads that are making it into the top 50's or top 20s for the first time. I mean we have multiple guys who's squads are at +600-650 speed with jolee/gk/gmy not even rocking speed arrows. A lot of these first time visitors to the top 50 are using mismatched sets with nonsensical primary stats and often aren't even reaching +300 speed across their squad. While those teams can occasionally beat a good team, they are going to time out at least half the time. That makes it awfully hard to climb through a sea of revans. If anything, I believe Revan is one of the more mod dependent metas we have had in quite some time.



  • xxragnarjsxx
    244 posts Member
    edited March 11
    But with this bad meta, where anyone can climb and beat anyone else....a greater light is being shined on them. (Shard chats)
    BECAUSE just anyone is capable of climbing much higher now than they could before = directly affecting shard chats that deal with the top 20-25 daily ranking players / whales etc.

    I would debate this in all honesty. Revan does not = auto win. There is a distinct cut in my shard (and likely many shards) between the teams of the guys who are part of the chat and routinely hit every meta vs the squads that are making it into the top 50's or top 20s for the first time. I mean we have multiple guys who's squads are at +600-650 speed with jolee/gk/gmy not even rocking speed arrows. A lot of these first time visitors to the top 50 are using mismatched sets with nonsensical primary stats and often aren't even reaching +300 speed across their squad. While those teams can occasionally beat a good team, they are going to time out at least half the time. That makes it awfully hard to climb through a sea of revans. If anything, I believe Revan is one of the more mod dependent metas we have had in quite some time.



    I’ll agree that a team with improper mods and 100-500 range will not be climbing anywhere near where shard chat members would be.

    Of course you need to know how to mod and the cheese Kill/ strategy, But the players that were 20-50 and not in the shard chat before? Absolutely they can.
    Just remove GK for chewy or Hoda, and it’s easy peasy.
    All they need to do is watch the kill order on some YouTube video, and suddenly they are climbing in top 10.
    That’s exactly what is happening in my shard.
    But a lot of them, we are letting by uncontested. Even if they aren’t in chat, they still have been amicable and easy to work with, and that’s all we could ask. If they can break top 10 for metas to comes , then maybe we add to the family.
  • Nikoms565
    11076 posts Member
    Just as an aside, our launch shard chat just took 4 more people in last week. So while we, like many others have already stated, are fairly "full" in terms of payouts, we are still trying to fair and reasonable to as many as possible.

    Honestly, the ability to change payout times has helped us ease some of the more "heavy" payout slots and provided the opportunity to allow even more people in to maximize more crystals for everyone.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • xxragnarjsxx
    244 posts Member
    edited March 11
    But with this bad meta, where anyone can climb and beat anyone else....a greater light is being shined on them. (Shard chats)
    BECAUSE just anyone is capable of climbing much higher now than they could before = directly affecting shard chats that deal with the top 20-25 daily ranking players / whales etc.

    I would debate this in all honesty. Revan does not = auto win. There is a distinct cut in my shard (and likely many shards) between the teams of the guys who are part of the chat and routinely hit every meta vs the squads that are making it into the top 50's or top 20s for the first time. I mean we have multiple guys who's squads are at +600-650 speed with jolee/gk/gmy not even rocking speed arrows. A lot of these first time visitors to the top 50 are using mismatched sets with nonsensical primary stats and often aren't even reaching +300 speed across their squad. While those teams can occasionally beat a good team, they are going to time out at least half the time. That makes it awfully hard to climb through a sea of revans. If anything, I believe Revan is one of the more mod dependent metas we have had in quite some time.



    I’ll agree that , sure the 100-500 range players without knowledge of how to mod aren’t going to change a whole lot.

    I’m inferring they know how to operate the team and the proper mods.
    I have yet to lose a mirror match with Hoda in for GK.

    But those that do know how to mod from watching YouTube videos and know the kill order with the easy peasy sub GK out for “ said toon”, they are cracking top 5-10 with ease now.
    That’s exactly what is happening in my shard.
    The 20-50 range all can now reach 1st.

    Thankfully , our shard has worked with them, and if they can continue to climb after this made easy to climb meta then we add to the family.

    Mirror matches for some, may not be 100%.
    But for some it is. Just with a tweak in for GK.
    They regularly reach first without using a 50 refresh now, whereas before they couldn’t clear top25, for the greater part of the last 2-3 years.
  • Gair
    515 posts Member
    This is how single character no defense teams sit at #1 not contested. You cant challenge them because 20 other shard chatters derank you, so #1 sits at #1 with a joke team waiting for their friend to win trade the payout.

    Been happening for years. Obviously intended mechanism... *cough*
  • Even if only some shard chats punish and abuse other players that should be enough motivation for CG to come up with a better system. I hope they do.
  • My partner & I don't allow our kids to participate in any chat other than in-game chat. The younger doesn't care, she hardly ever plays. The older is 14 and plays frequently. I don't know where she lands in Squad Arena, but in Fleet she's top 10.

    So... let's say that someone asks her to join a fleet-based shard chat. She would, appropriately, decline (I trust her on this). There are too many instances of kids being taken advantage of by adults on the internet for our family to have any other policy. She's not trying to be anti-social. She's not trying to do anything other than reasonably protect herself with the rules she's agreed to with her family.

    There are people here who are defending excluding her from anything near the top simply because she's not in shard chat.

    Y'all are acting as if there's no such thing as a player under 18, but my older has been playing since she was 12. She's got 2.5 years of farming invested. Why should she be penalized?

    No, shard chats that punish players for not joining are unethical. Surely we can and should start there.

    Maybe you believe there's no solution that isn't worse than the problem, and that's your position. I get that. But what's the problem with simply standing up and saying, "The behavior described in the OP is unethical and wrong."

    Why can't we start from there?
  • leef
    12639 posts Member
    Why can't we start from there?

    Not really, since not everyone even agrees on it being unethical.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • My partner & I don't allow our kids to participate in any chat other than in-game chat. The younger doesn't care, she hardly ever plays. The older is 14 and plays frequently. I don't know where she lands in Squad Arena, but in Fleet she's top 10.

    So... let's say that someone asks her to join a fleet-based shard chat. She would, appropriately, decline (I trust her on this). There are too many instances of kids being taken advantage of by adults on the internet for our family to have any other policy. She's not trying to be anti-social. She's not trying to do anything other than reasonably protect herself with the rules she's agreed to with her family.

    There are people here who are defending excluding her from anything near the top simply because she's not in shard chat.

    Y'all are acting as if there's no such thing as a player under 18, but my older has been playing since she was 12. She's got 2.5 years of farming invested. Why should she be penalized?

    No, shard chats that punish players for not joining are unethical. Surely we can and should start there.

    Maybe you believe there's no solution that isn't worse than the problem, and that's your position. I get that. But what's the problem with simply standing up and saying, "The behavior described in the OP is unethical and wrong."

    Why can't we start from there?

    Because you should read the thread and find out that the OP actually lied and left out his own behavior that caused him to get shot at.


    Also, our shard (not the same one the OP is talking/lying about) has a few guys not in the chat who take top positions. As long as they don't interfere with the payouts around them, they can go for the top, no problem. We keep them informed about who not to hit during their climb and if they share a payout with one of us, we get a system set up with them.
    But most simply join the chat, which makes communication a lot easier.
  • Nikoms565
    11076 posts Member
    Gair wrote: »
    This is how single character no defense teams sit at #1 not contested. You cant challenge them because 20 other shard chatters derank you, so #1 sits at #1 with a joke team waiting for their friend to win trade the payout.

    Been happening for years. Obviously intended mechanism... *cough*

    Hyperbole is the absolute best thing ever!!!

    C'mon man. If you have an actual point, make it - but don't just jump in and make up nonsense.

    "Been happening for years" - says the dude who joined the forums last year. :D
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • MasterSeedy
    1237 posts Member
    edited March 11
    @Kyno & @DarkISI :

    Note that I made no statements about your particular shards' practices.

    I only asked that we begin with the agreement that punishing people for not joining shard chat is unethical.

    ... and you resolutely refuse to stand up and say, "Punishing people for declining to join shard chat is unethical."

    You're not taking a brave stand for truth by squeamishly avoiding saying that. "But I didn't murder someone!" is not a response to the question, "Is murder unethical?"

    I find it gross that people can't simply agree that that behavior is wrong. Maybe you should look in the mirror and ask yourself why it's so hard to do that you have to construct three paragraphs whose entire purpose is designed to avoid the question ... and to make it seem like avoiding the question is reasonable.
  • Nikoms565
    11076 posts Member
    edited March 11
    @Kyno & @DarkISI :

    Note that I made no statements about your particular shards' practices.

    I only asked that we begin with the agreement that punishing people for not joining shard chat is unethical.

    ... and you resolutely refuse to stand up and say, "Punishing people for declining to join shard chat is unethical."

    You're seriously taking the cowardly way out by squeamishly avoiding saying that. "But I didn't murder someone!" is not a response to the question, "Is murder unethical?"

    I find it gross that people can't simply agree that that behavior is wrong. Maybe you should look in the mirror and ask yourself why it's so hard to do that you have to construct three paragraphs whose entire purpose is designed to avoid the question ... and to make it seem like avoiding the question is reasonable.

    Nice strawman.

    No one ever disagreed with your corrected (and changed) premise.

    No one is avoiding the question - because that wasn't the question. Most would agree that punishing people simply for not joining a shard chat is unethical (as would I) - but that's not what the OP said, nor did appear that that was what you asking people to agree with.

    What most people are suggesting is that most shard chats DON'T DO THAT. Why is this so difficult for people to understand?
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • My partner & I don't allow our kids to participate in any chat other than in-game chat. The younger doesn't care, she hardly ever plays. The older is 14 and plays frequently. I don't know where she lands in Squad Arena, but in Fleet she's top 10.

    So... let's say that someone asks her to join a fleet-based shard chat. She would, appropriately, decline (I trust her on this). There are too many instances of kids being taken advantage of by adults on the internet for our family to have any other policy. She's not trying to be anti-social. She's not trying to do anything other than reasonably protect herself with the rules she's agreed to with her family.

    There are people here who are defending excluding her from anything near the top simply because she's not in shard chat.

    Y'all are acting as if there's no such thing as a player under 18, but my older has been playing since she was 12. She's got 2.5 years of farming invested. Why should she be penalized?

    No, shard chats that punish players for not joining are unethical. Surely we can and should start there.

    Maybe you believe there's no solution that isn't worse than the problem, and that's your position. I get that. But what's the problem with simply standing up and saying, "The behavior described in the OP is unethical and wrong."

    Why can't we start from there?

    It's not unethical or wrong. That said, if we had come across this situation on our shard early on we likely would have tried to trade information on payouts and included her as an honorary shard member. We have one such setup with a foreign player who can't speak English. We worked with communication through his guild lead and gave him our info and we got his back. Been no issues since.
  • leef
    12639 posts Member

    I find it gross that people can't simply agree that that behavior is wrong. Maybe you should look in the mirror and ask yourself why it's so hard to do that you have to construct three paragraphs whose entire purpose is designed to avoid the question ... and to make it seem like avoiding the question is reasonable.

    i do not care what you find gross, nor do i care what you find unethical. There's no moral highground here.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • @Kyno & @DarkISI :

    Note that I made no statements about your particular shards' practices.

    I only asked that we begin with the agreement that punishing people for not joining shard chat is unethical.

    ... and you resolutely refuse to stand up and say, "Punishing people for declining to join shard chat is unethical."

    You're not taking a brave stand for truth by squeamishly avoiding saying that. "But I didn't murder someone!" is not a response to the question, "Is murder unethical?"

    I find it gross that people can't simply agree that that behavior is wrong. Maybe you should look in the mirror and ask yourself why it's so hard to do that you have to construct three paragraphs whose entire purpose is designed to avoid the question ... and to make it seem like avoiding the question is reasonable.

    Ah, how I like strawmen ...
    Shows the one using them isn't actually interested in a real discussio, only in getting agreed with.
    That goes double for people who obviously haven't read a word of what the people they used the strawmen against actually wrote.
    Nice try. You can do better.
  • Nikoms565
    11076 posts Member
    leef wrote: »

    I find it gross that people can't simply agree that that behavior is wrong. Maybe you should look in the mirror and ask yourself why it's so hard to do that you have to construct three paragraphs whose entire purpose is designed to avoid the question ... and to make it seem like avoiding the question is reasonable.

    i do not care what you find gross, nor do i care what you find unethical. There's no moral highground here.

    Yes there IS!!! I have the moral high ground Anakin!
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Gawejn
    835 posts Member
    Bla bla bla bla bla bla, all of You are Talking about how boring You made your arena. What is this statement: shard chat made my gaming less stresfull..... Blabla bla bla bla what a nonsens. It just made your gaming boring. Next statement: arena chat is atacking me and i dont have fun..... Next bla bla bla. Why You cant See that at least there is something going on. You can fight back, pick the opponents one by one everyday to fight the mafia. It is not Real in fact, so virtually You could take position to enjoy virtual war. I would be happy to have such a war in my arena. Just for fun. Couse it is now boring mode of gamę. Real competition is lost in this mode of game. That is pure fact. Everything else is secondary. Not important, game is just without competition. That is the problem of this game. Arena is not challange for anyone anymore. Individual progres of the Player is limited, there is no progres in arena, it is like a constant loop of changing toons which is directed by devs. Competition is lost in this game really.
  • leef
    12639 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »

    I find it gross that people can't simply agree that that behavior is wrong. Maybe you should look in the mirror and ask yourself why it's so hard to do that you have to construct three paragraphs whose entire purpose is designed to avoid the question ... and to make it seem like avoiding the question is reasonable.

    i do not care what you find gross, nor do i care what you find unethical. There's no moral highground here.

    Yes there IS!!! I have the moral high ground Anakin!

    There's no way anyone could ever have the moral high ground when it comes to anakin.
    3adeb6794ded6cad6746ab2613a3009519b0f993_hq.jpg
    nuff said :D
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • 7AnimalMother
    1507 posts Member
    edited March 11
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    @Kyno & @DarkISI :

    Note that I made no statements about your particular shards' practices.

    I only asked that we begin with the agreement that punishing people for not joining shard chat is unethical.

    ... and you resolutely refuse to stand up and say, "Punishing people for declining to join shard chat is unethical."

    You're seriously taking the cowardly way out by squeamishly avoiding saying that. "But I didn't murder someone!" is not a response to the question, "Is murder unethical?"

    I find it gross that people can't simply agree that that behavior is wrong. Maybe you should look in the mirror and ask yourself why it's so hard to do that you have to construct three paragraphs whose entire purpose is designed to avoid the question ... and to make it seem like avoiding the question is reasonable.

    Nice strawman.

    No one ever disagreed with your corrected (and changed) premise.

    No one is avoiding the question - because that wasn't the question. Most would agree that punishing people simply for not joining a shard chat is unethical (as would I) - but that's not what the OP said, nor did appear that that was what you asking people to agree with.

    What most people are suggesting is that most shard chats DON'T DO THAT. Why is this so difficult for people to understand?

    "Punishing" is a loaded term. Is battling someone in a virtual game so they earn less virtual coins even an actual "punishment"? I would have loved that "punishment" growing up. "Sorry for breaking the lamp, dad. What no spanking? I just get 12th place in SWGOH arena instead 10th? Oh the horror."

    As you said, I don't believe any chat has knocked people back (let's use that terminology because its factually correct) for the simple reason they offered someone to join a chat and they refused. (It's more likely they refused and then proceeded to stomp on others at their payouts so got sent packing as a result.)

    But even if they did, I have a hard time saying that's unethical. This is a collection game about resource management. Every hit you take in the arena means potential wasted resources. From a game theory standpoint it makes sense to limit hits in whatever way possible. This isn't a bread line scenario that is presenting me an ethical dilemma about someone's child starving if I prevent them from their spot in line. This is a virtual zero sum game where people are virtually fighting for finite resources. Firmly within the established rules I might add. Gotta keep perspective.



  • Jarvind
    2429 posts Member

    Maybe you believe there's no solution that isn't worse than the problem, and that's your position. I get that. But what's the problem with simply standing up and saying, "The behavior described in the OP is unethical and wrong."

    Why can't we start from there?

    You can't start from there because, at the risk of sounding harsh, it doesn't matter, and isn't even really true.

    The goal is to win. Whether or not you get there by offending someone's personal sensibilities is irrelevant.

    Let's use hockey as an example.

    Is it "ethical" for a team to deliberately beat the crap out of the other team's star player and eat the penalty just to take him out of the game? I think most would agree that it is not.

    Do teams still do it? Absolutely.

    Likewise, whether or not you feel that participants in a shard chat are behaving "ethically," they either don't agree or don't care. It's not the civil rights movement. It's a game you play on your phone. They don't care if they're inconveniencing some random stranger they'll never meet. They just want their pixels.

    You don't have to like it, but you do need to recognize it and learn to deal with it.
  • Kyno
    21361 posts Moderator
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Kyno & DarkISI :

    Note that I made no statements about your particular shards' practices.

    I only asked that we begin with the agreement that punishing people for not joining shard chat is unethical.

    ... and you resolutely refuse to stand up and say, "Punishing people for declining to join shard chat is unethical."

    You're seriously taking the cowardly way out by squeamishly avoiding saying that. "But I didn't murder someone!" is not a response to the question, "Is murder unethical?"

    I find it gross that people can't simply agree that that behavior is wrong. Maybe you should look in the mirror and ask yourself why it's so hard to do that you have to construct three paragraphs whose entire purpose is designed to avoid the question ... and to make it seem like avoiding the question is reasonable.

    Nice strawman.

    No one ever disagreed with your corrected (and changed) premise.

    No one is avoiding the question - because that wasn't the question. Most would agree that punishing people simply for not joining a shard chat is unethical (as would I) - but that's not what the OP said, nor did appear that that was what you asking people to agree with.

    What most people are suggesting is that most shard chats DON'T DO THAT. Why is this so difficult for people to understand?

    @MasterSeedy

    This.
  • Nikom said:
    Nice strawman.
    No one ever disagreed with your corrected (and changed) premise.

    The very next comment? That's from 7AnimalMother:
    It's not unethical or wrong.

    The only straw man is yours, Nikom, when you continue:
    What most people are suggesting is that most shard chats DON'T DO THAT. Why is this so difficult for people to understand?

    I explicitly acknowledged that Kyno & DarkISI denied participating in a shard chat that engages in this practice. I criticized that as a way of avoiding the question. I did not criticize this as inaccurate.

    What I noted is that they're using a lot of words without ever getting around to saying, "If any shard chat punishes other players for not participating, that's wrong."
  • I've been playing for almost a year and a few of us just started up a fleet shard chat. I've found it increased my fun factor enormously. I've really enjoyed getting to know the other players and knowing who is good natured instead of wondering whether they're a **** trying to take me out. I much prefer the cooperative nature of it vs. the random chaos from before.
  • pac0naut
    3236 posts Member
    Oh boy. This again. So much salt.

    First and foremost, shard chats exist to maximize profit. That's really all it is. I help run mine.

    Most of us there have taken first or top 3 (depending on rotation) since we started. We've done the work, some have made the investment and we profit from doing so.

    I've taken first for about 2 years straight or so and a top 5 spot minimum since I started to play this game and before the shard chat. If you think I'm going to let some Johnny-come-lately who just got their Revan after the second time around take my payout, you are sorely mistaken. Op and others in here seem like the type of players who finally catch up to the meta, thinks they're entitled to a top 10 spot because they have the flavor of the quarter meta team and then get dropped into the 100s when the meta changes. Every shard has them. Why should anyone even let you climb when you won't be around when the meta changes?

    Arena is dog eat dog. The shard chat, again, is to maximize our investment. We burn less crystals, you burn more. It's just that simple. And I am laughing out loud at someone being a "victim" and using a "cheat system". Womp Womp.
    Meanwhile, down on the farm....
  • Kyno
    21361 posts Moderator
    Nikom said:
    Nice strawman.
    No one ever disagreed with your corrected (and changed) premise.

    The very next comment? That's from 7AnimalMother:
    It's not unethical or wrong.

    The only straw man is yours, Nikom, when you continue:
    What most people are suggesting is that most shard chats DON'T DO THAT. Why is this so difficult for people to understand?

    I explicitly acknowledged that Kyno & DarkISI denied participating in a shard chat that engages in this practice. I criticized that as a way of avoiding the question. I did not criticize this as inaccurate.

    What I noted is that they're using a lot of words without ever getting around to saying, "If any shard chat punishes other players for not participating, that's wrong."

    In that case aren't you using a lot of words to make them sound worse than they are, without connecting to any real statements made here, I would even go as far to say, you are going against what is being stated here.
  • In this game you should always do whatever you need to, to better your account and toons. Whether it be joining a better guild when you’ve outgrown one or joining the shard chat. There is no point complaining about how things are, you can’t ‘beat’ the system, join it. The game is less stressful and more fun this way, as many people in shard chats have already told you. Do whatever you have to to get in. If you don’t youll never get 1st place and fall behind on crystals. After awhile in shard chat you realise squad arena is not really a competitive platform and more just crystal income.

    I used to hate shard chats like many people here but in hindsight it was because I was salty about the arena meta and didn’t have the mods to compete properly. Just be friendly with everyone and don’t step on toes we all want 500 crystals so we can keep up without spending money, long live shard chat. Ps. My shard chat is awesome and like a second guild and we are constantly giving TW/GA advice and helping each other out.
  • Pile
    343 posts Member
    Guys, the point is your perception of chats is based on the particular one in your shard. If it's run by a bunch of punks your perception of the chats will be negative. If it's run with the intent of getting all competitive players theirs with little stress then they're great. They're all different and there in lies the issue. Perhaps those in shards where the chat is a mafia the devs allow moving to another shard.
  • Montanz wrote: »
    Just be friendly with everyone and don’t step on toes we all want 500 crystals so we can keep up without spending money, long live shard chat.

    The thing that I think a lot of people fail to realize is this isn’t true for a lot of people. A lot of people don’t view arena as simply their crystal income. They like to actually play a game and compete with people. I personally had so much more fun back in the good ole days when Payouts were exciting and I was battling for spots. Even though my crystal income was so much less. Shard chats have made arena feel like a mundane job instead of a game.
  • Kyno
    21361 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »

    No, shard chats that punish players for not joining are unethical. Surely we can and should start there.

    Many people have stated here that they dont punish anyone for not joining. Even the counter to the OP said the attacks were made by people climbing for PO and by him because it was his PO.

    We have people that dont want to join our chat, both ship and arena, we simply give them a list of the POs and ask them to be respectful. Even people that are not respectful to our shard dont get "punished" by the chat. The hour may work together to keep spots, but this would happen no matter what. That's what me and another player did for almost a year before joining the chat. We didnt even talk, I just knew he would attack me back if I attacked him, generally we would setup and swap 1/2 for the last 10 mins. We also knew many if the POs from keeping an eye out and respected others POs.

    Not all chats do anything other than talk, maybe strategize and recruit when things shake up. We exist to make sure anyone who wants to can get where they can without stepping on toes. We even have several members from out of the top spots that we talk to and help with strategy and stuff.

    @MasterSeedy I also answered that question already, directly (even though it was not asked)
This discussion has been closed.