Update on zFinn Changes Coming Next Update [MEGA]

Replies

  • Ninho
    92 posts Member
    Adamklark wrote: »
    problem is not the ability to solo, but infinite loops

    It isn’t an infinite loop.

    This game has a base 15% to resist. Enough of those 15%s will break the loop.

    It is also why it shouldn’t be fixed. It can easily be prevented by more tenacity.

    The whole story is just a great story of disimproving a broken raid.
    The "problem" is that more tenacity will benefit the next (CLS) loop, which is actually very similar to the zFinn one due to "infinite" TM manipulation. The previously announced nerf created another loop in P1, and there will be the next one soon.
    Devs should just accept that people will always find a loop-hole in their precious SR...
  • Keydash1
    226 posts Member
    edited March 27
    Any comparisons between the zFinn P3 team and the CLS P3 are not reasonable. The zFinn team could solo on auto after an easy setup (<5 minutes). The CLS team is very slow, and must be run on manual. Big difference between 5 minutes of effort and 1 hour of effort. And even with the teams that can auto-solo, they don't like infinite loops. (I guess the CLS team is a loop, but not an auto loop.)
  • GunnerFCm
    95 posts Member
    edited March 27
    I don't know, folks. I think there is promise in this new kit. Yes, you can only run him as a Resistance lead now, so gone are the ZFinn, CLS, Han, BB8, C3P0 days, but pop in RT and R2 or Poe and you've got a decent team. With Potency up and each Resistance member gaining 15%tm for EACH expose on them, plus the enemy losing 25%tm (this is assuming your team is all still alive, i know) if you spec for potency/speed, there is still an expose TM train going. Maybe not quite what it was, but that was the broken loop, right? All three of his other abilities are undeniably improved over what they are currently.

    Yeah, I get it's a nerf, and I'm glad they are refunding the Zeta, and I probably won't put it back on Finn right away, but I don't think it is quite as doom-and-gloom as all that. There is a decent kit here. If a new toon came out with this kit, no one would blink once, and we'd all be talking about if this was a better lead than JTR. At the very least, I'm going to look at slotting him into my JTR team as a taunter/healer/cleanser who also has the potential to do decent damage and stun and expose. Not a bad utility toon.

    I am also sad that I won't solo HAAT on auto or breeze through P3, of course. I can have both the feelings. ;)
  • @Kyno don't just dump this thread in here without it having a response, I want to know why finn is being nerfed while cls is not
  • Keydash1
    226 posts Member
    edited March 27
    GunnerFCm wrote: »
    At the very least, I'm going to look at slotting him into my JTR team as a taunter/healer/cleanser who also has the potential to do decent damage and stun and expose. Not a bad utility toon.

    I am also sad that I won't solo HAAT on auto or breeze through P3, of course. I can have both the feelings. ;)

    I think this will be the new use for Finn. He looks like he will be a better healer than Holdo (especially for the many folks who haven't farmed Holdo). Too bad his damage doesn't ramp as much anymore, although the caps are only relevant for raids.

    I believe you can solo HAAT almost as easily with RJT/BB8/C3PO/R2/Trooper, if you have your mods right. I tried it last night and only got 85% of P2 on that first try, but one of my guild mates (who never zetaed finn) does it every time. Actually that team might get better with the new Finn replacing Trooper or R2.
  • Keydash1 wrote: »
    Any comparisons between the zFinn P3 team and the CLS P3 are not reasonable. The zFinn team could solo on auto after an easy setup (<5 minutes). The CLS team is very slow, and must be run on manual. Big difference between 5 minutes of effort and 1 hour of effort. And even with the teams that can auto-solo, they don't like infinite loops. (I guess the CLS team is a loop, but not an auto loop.)

    Why? They both have the same outcome, they both solo, sure, one is easy, one requires work, but the end goal is still the same, they both are infinite loops, and should both be treated the same
  • Vertigo
    4377 posts Member
    edited March 27
    Keydash1 wrote: »
    GunnerFCm wrote: »
    At the very least, I'm going to look at slotting him into my JTR team as a taunter/healer/cleanser who also has the potential to do decent damage and stun and expose. Not a bad utility toon.

    I am also sad that I won't solo HAAT on auto or breeze through P3, of course. I can have both the feelings. ;)

    I think this will be the new use for Finn. He looks like he will be a better healer than Holdo (especially for the many folks who haven't farmed Holdo). Too bad his damage doesn't ramp as much anymore, although the caps are only relevant for raids.

    I believe you can solo HAAT almost as easily with RJT/BB8/C3PO/R2/Trooper, if you have your mods right. I tried it last night and only got 85% of P2 on that first try, but one of my guild mates (who never zetaed finn) does it every time.

    That team can do P1 on Manual and auto P2-P4, don't need god mods for it, was able to get through P2 in just over 4 topples: https://swgoh.gg/squads/90439/3K9KDO6D4I/
    I don't swap their mods around ever, so that's what I've been doing it with.


    The real question is when is this nerf + refund coming. Imho, they either need to do it now before the GA roster lock occurs or wait until after the GA event ends entirely, otherwise we'll have a locked in Finn zeta change mid-way through the event which will 1) Mean we go in with one team, and then have an entirely different team once the event begins and/or 2) Having a zeta on a character where they remove the zeta from everyone's rosters getting refunded but also changed in the middle of GA where the event is supposedly locked will probably bug the *** out and mess up all of GA lol
  • Okay. So you are refunding the zeta for Finn...what about all of the Gear for Finn AND Poe that everyone wasted ?!?
  • Chima
    101 posts Member
    Keydash1 wrote: »
    Any comparisons between the zFinn P3 team and the CLS P3 are not reasonable. The zFinn team could solo on auto after an easy setup (<5 minutes). The CLS team is very slow, and must be run on manual. Big difference between 5 minutes of effort and 1 hour of effort. And even with the teams that can auto-solo, they don't like infinite loops. (I guess the CLS team is a loop, but not an auto loop.)

    1 hour in the cellphone for each Phase, actually it's the problem. zFinn+C3PO was the solution.
    This raid is annoying, RNG over RNG making people waste HOURS around this.
    They could expend all this effort doing something fun, not making it less fun.
  • xGriiMErZ wrote: »
    Why? They both have the same outcome, they both solo, sure, one is easy, one requires work, but the end goal is still the same, they both are infinite loops, and should both be treated the same
    First of all, you wanted to know why Finn is being nerfed and CLS is not, and that is their reason (not mine).

    It happens that I agree it is a good reason. Doing big damage on the most difficult PvE content in the game should be possible, but difficult. It should require high gear toons, good mods, play skill, and effort. The Finn team requires none of these.The CLS team might get by with lower gear/mods, but at the cost of greater skill and effort.
  • Keydash1 wrote: »
    xGriiMErZ wrote: »
    Why? They both have the same outcome, they both solo, sure, one is easy, one requires work, but the end goal is still the same, they both are infinite loops, and should both be treated the same
    First of all, you wanted to know why Finn is being nerfed and CLS is not, and that is their reason (not mine).

    It happens that I agree it is a good reason. Doing big damage on the most difficult PvE content in the game should be possible, but difficult. It should require high gear toons, good mods, play skill, and effort. The Finn team requires none of these.The CLS team might get by with lower gear/mods, but at the cost of greater skill and effort.

    Finn team still requires good mods for potency, great rng because of natural tenacity, cls team does not, offence mods and no potency, if the ai was smart/you can set it, cls could auto by always calling c3po in with an assist skill, the difference is so tiny its a joke
  • Frankly this is pretty unacceptable. Maybe they couldn't figure out a solution....but the issue is that players have spent WAY MORE THAN A ZETA. Many players have geared RP, Holdo and Poe to support a zFinn team for TW. This basically turns that into a steaming waste!!!! Why not give him some other leader ability that is worth it. This does NOT set a good precedent at all.
  • Keydash1 wrote: »
    xGriiMErZ wrote: »
    Why? They both have the same outcome, they both solo, sure, one is easy, one requires work, but the end goal is still the same, they both are infinite loops, and should both be treated the same
    First of all, you wanted to know why Finn is being nerfed and CLS is not, and that is their reason (not mine).

    It happens that I agree it is a good reason. Doing big damage on the most difficult PvE content in the game should be possible, but difficult. It should require high gear toons, good mods, play skill, and effort. The Finn team requires none of these.The CLS team might get by with lower gear/mods, but at the cost of greater skill and effort.

    And also the fact for cls to truly work well, a "paper c3po" is needed, and if you remember they didn't like paper zombie
  • Keydash1 wrote: »
    majorjohn wrote: »
    OK, I am a bit confused.

    Previous proposed change is: Each time they damage an Exposed enemy, all Resistance allies gain 3% Turn Meter and the target enemy loses 5% Turn Meter for each Resistance ally.

    Current proposed change is: If an enemy is damaged by a Resistance ally, for each Expose on them: That enemy loses 5% Turn Meter for each Resistance ally, all Resistance allies gain 3% Turn Meter for each Resistance ally.


    Doesn't the new one cause more TM removal and TM gain (now based on the number of expose) ??? How would this prevent HSith P1 loop that they mentioned earlier?

    Yes, it certainly looks like they actually improved this part. I'm guessing that the P1 issue wasn't really a loop. Rather, he just did so much ramping damage under RJT lead that they could easily solo. With the ramping capped, they can't anymore.

    I reviewed it again, and I think the newest version added the "If an enemy is damaged by a Resistance ally", I guess they just make it impossible to use the combination of Resistance and Rebel. (like a current solo team)
  • Keydash1
    226 posts Member
    edited March 27
    xGriiMErZ wrote: »
    Finn team still requires good mods for potency, great rng because of natural tenacity, cls team does not, offence mods and no potency, if the ai was smart/you can set it, cls could auto by always calling c3po in with an assist skill, the difference is so tiny its a joke
    You need 4 potency sets with potency crosses, but they don't need to be good. They could be all gray. I just throw on spare mods, I don't even remove potency mods with better secondaries from their normal users.

    I watched the Bulldog video where he introduced the CLS team. He didn't at all make it seem like "the difference is so tiny its a joke". Rather, he made it sound like the team was a mind-numbing nightmare to play, and he was only doing it to demonstrate that it was possible.
  • Keydash1 wrote: »
    xGriiMErZ wrote: »
    Finn team still requires good mods for potency, great rng because of natural tenacity, cls team does not, offence mods and no potency, if the ai was smart/you can set it, cls could auto by always calling c3po in with an assist skill, the difference is so tiny its a joke
    You need 4 potency sets with potency crosses, but they don't need to be good. They could be all gray. I just throw on spare mods, I don't even remove potency mods with better secondaries from their normal users.

    I watched the Bulldog video where he introduced the CLS team. He didn't at all make it seem like "the difference is so tiny its a joke". Rather, he made it sound like the team was a mind-numbing nightmare to play, and he was only doing it to demonstrate that it was possible.


    You need at least 130 to have the best chance, I have some real good mods farmed just for this team, this isn't a revan team where whatever mods work, this team requires farming and work to get working, this team is 100% fine
  • Why don't you fix C-3PO instead? He's the problem you introduced here, not Finn.
  • m0rality wrote: »
    Frankly this is pretty unacceptable. Maybe they couldn't figure out a solution....but the issue is that players have spent WAY MORE THAN A ZETA. Many players have geared RP, Holdo and Poe to support a zFinn team for TW. This basically turns that into a steaming waste!!!! Why not give him some other leader ability that is worth it. This does NOT set a good precedent at all.

    Interesting. Folks like MobileGamer were complaining for almost the opposite reason - that the beauty of the Finn zeta is that you got a useful team without having to invest gear. Without the old zeta, those lower gear toons would be useless. In fact, there was a general agreement among the gamechangers that the new Finn might be okay (in different ways), but you would now need him geared up.
  • Is this TM removal unavoidable?
  • T4NM4N26 wrote: »
    Is this TM removal unavoidable?

    no, it goes through a potency check.
  • Can’t wait to try Finn out with JTR!
  • @CG_Carrie You guys need to hold this change until after the current GA (when there is no current GA/TW lock). This change has now been announced, but we need time to prepare for it. People aren't going to be able to strip their resistance teams before this GA. I know there is over 4 hours at this time, but that's too close (some players are sleeping).

    An alternative would be to make this change today, and push the GA a day (which would be 2 at this point).
  • 3pourr2
    1919 posts Member
    I really hope they tested him in the jtr event
  • So what does this mean for JTR event... Because I must still do it, do I get my zeta back after the event like everyone else who already has JTR and might never see a need to reZeta Finn again?
  • Forget the zeta, what's the point in playing anymore they just decide every single thing and leave no room for creativity anymore
  • YaeVizsla
    3037 posts Member
    stephrad wrote: »
    So what does this mean for JTR event... Because I must still do it, do I get my zeta back after the event like everyone else who already has JTR and might never see a need to reZeta Finn again?
    For the JTR event, it's pretty much pure gain. Finn's core kit is much stronger. His non-zeta lead gains 30% offense and 60% potency. The only change is his zeta, which was never really recommended for the JTR event.
    Still not a he.
  • I'm just happy to get my zeta back, never really used finn for much anyway and regretted giving him one since JTR came out
  • I just find it ironic that they take a team that is ok in arena, and creates a loop in p3 of sith raid (when...let's be honest, that phase is just simply annoying to begin with, so who cares), but does nothing with the obvious and much complained issues of Revan and Jollee.
  • DJayK3
    72 posts Member
    zFinn’s LIFE MATTERS!!!

    Don’t nerf him. F2P players (like myself) beat the establishment (EA) and can defeat the paywall called Revan-both of them. And yes!! The HAAT should be soloable now...and stay soloable.
Sign In or Register to comment.