That's because I have superiority in this little debate - I just blew you out of the water and you are still grasping at straws - very well continue to moan about it, I don't think any one is listening any more.
[/quote]
I’m sorry, but you sound slightly immature. You just claimed superiority for yourself and then said you blew him out of the water. Of course that’s what you are going to think. You can’t just assume you are right.
It's ok, just claim the high ground and you'll be able to say or do what you'd like. lol
Yep - took a leaf outta Obi Wan's book - he had the superiority, or high ground, in his argument, or negotiations with a lightsaber, and blew Anakin out of the water, or in his case into the lava
I don't care if I or Obi Wan sound immature, it is what it is.
@Nihion don't get me wrong - you are completely entitled to your beliefs and enjoyment out of the franchise, just as I am. We clearly disagree, but that's ok too.
George Lucas doesn’t own Star Wars anymore. What he says isn’t canon. And canon can always change. “Always in motion is the future.”
The irony is that Lucas himself has changed Star Wars countless times until he sold it off and gave up control of it.
Thank goodness.
You weren't looking forward to Episode VII: Luke and Leia's Fantastic Voyage?
“[The next three Star Wars films] were going to get into a microbiotic world. But there’s this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force… If I’d held onto the company I could have done it, and then it would have been done. Of course, a lot of the fans would have hated it, just like they did Phantom Menace and everything, but at least the whole story from beginning to end would be told.”
“Back in the day, I used to say ultimately what this means is we were just cars, vehicles for the Whills to travel around in….We’re vessels for them. And the conduit is the midichlorians. The midichlorians are the ones that communicate with the Whills. The Whills, in a general sense, they are the Force… All the way back to—with the Force and the Jedi and everything—the whole concept of how things happen was laid out completely from [the beginning] to the end. But I never got to finish. I never got to tell people about it.”
So basically, magic protozoa made the chosen one......anyway, it's turtles, all the way down.
George Lucas doesn’t own Star Wars anymore. What he says isn’t canon. And canon can always change. “Always in motion is the future.”
The irony is that Lucas himself has changed Star Wars countless times until he sold it off and gave up control of it.
Thank goodness.
You weren't looking forward to Episode VII: Luke and Leia's Fantastic Voyage?
“[The next three Star Wars films] were going to get into a microbiotic world. But there’s this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force… If I’d held onto the company I could have done it, and then it would have been done. Of course, a lot of the fans would have hated it, just like they did Phantom Menace and everything, but at least the whole story from beginning to end would be told.”
“Back in the day, I used to say ultimately what this means is we were just cars, vehicles for the Whills to travel around in….We’re vessels for them. And the conduit is the midichlorians. The midichlorians are the ones that communicate with the Whills. The Whills, in a general sense, they are the Force… All the way back to—with the Force and the Jedi and everything—the whole concept of how things happen was laid out completely from [the beginning] to the end. But I never got to finish. I never got to tell people about it.”
So basically, magic protozoa made the chosen one......anyway, it's turtles, all the way down.
Would have been better than what we got most likely, and certainly could have explained the prophecy of the chosen one and Anakin's creation and purpose.
George Lucas doesn’t own Star Wars anymore. What he says isn’t canon. And canon can always change. “Always in motion is the future.”
The irony is that Lucas himself has changed Star Wars countless times until he sold it off and gave up control of it.
Thank goodness.
You weren't looking forward to Episode VII: Luke and Leia's Fantastic Voyage?
“[The next three Star Wars films] were going to get into a microbiotic world. But there’s this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force… If I’d held onto the company I could have done it, and then it would have been done. Of course, a lot of the fans would have hated it, just like they did Phantom Menace and everything, but at least the whole story from beginning to end would be told.”
“Back in the day, I used to say ultimately what this means is we were just cars, vehicles for the Whills to travel around in….We’re vessels for them. And the conduit is the midichlorians. The midichlorians are the ones that communicate with the Whills. The Whills, in a general sense, they are the Force… All the way back to—with the Force and the Jedi and everything—the whole concept of how things happen was laid out completely from [the beginning] to the end. But I never got to finish. I never got to tell people about it.”
So basically, magic protozoa made the chosen one......anyway, it's turtles, all the way down.
Would have been better than what we got most likely, and certainly could have explained the prophecy of the chosen one and Anakin's creation and purpose.
I don't think anything can explain the "prophecy of the chosen one" because Lucas probably just made it up to sound cool and didn't have this grand vision that so many fans long for. He improvised, a lot. Good for us, he was really good at it. You'll just drive yourself crazy if you're looking for an explanation to any of it that makes sense in the construct of your world view.
George Lucas doesn’t own Star Wars anymore. What he says isn’t canon. And canon can always change. “Always in motion is the future.”
The irony is that Lucas himself has changed Star Wars countless times until he sold it off and gave up control of it.
Thank goodness.
You weren't looking forward to Episode VII: Luke and Leia's Fantastic Voyage?
“[The next three Star Wars films] were going to get into a microbiotic world. But there’s this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force… If I’d held onto the company I could have done it, and then it would have been done. Of course, a lot of the fans would have hated it, just like they did Phantom Menace and everything, but at least the whole story from beginning to end would be told.”
“Back in the day, I used to say ultimately what this means is we were just cars, vehicles for the Whills to travel around in….We’re vessels for them. And the conduit is the midichlorians. The midichlorians are the ones that communicate with the Whills. The Whills, in a general sense, they are the Force… All the way back to—with the Force and the Jedi and everything—the whole concept of how things happen was laid out completely from [the beginning] to the end. But I never got to finish. I never got to tell people about it.”
So basically, magic protozoa made the chosen one......anyway, it's turtles, all the way down.
Would have been better than what we got most likely, and certainly could have explained the prophecy of the chosen one and Anakin's creation and purpose.
I don't think anything can explain the "prophecy of the chosen one" because Lucas probably just made it up to sound cool and didn't have this grand vision that so many fans long for. He improvised, a lot. Good for us, he was really good at it. You'll just drive yourself crazy if you're looking for an explanation to any of it that makes sense in the construct of your world view.
I guess the annoyance is that they could have built more of a story around that and made it all more interesting and also tying the films together based on that plot line.
But they didn't do that for whatever reason so now its the big elephant in the room, that does drive a lot of fans crazy. Its not too much for fans wanting a coherent story, but your right, if all it does now is serve a purpose for fans to repeatedly beat their heads against a brick wall over it, what's the point of continuing to do so?
I guess it would help answer questions such as why the Sith are returning (Palpatine's return in TROS) or why Rey (not a skywalker) can easily best Kylo (who is a direct descendant of the chosen one) - even if Rey does have lineage to Palpatine, as is speculated by many at this point - Anakin's blood line is supposed to be the most powerful in the force - so from those perspectives there is no blame on fans wanting to know more. Otherwise the story is just a big non-coherent mess. But if that's what Disney want, then so be it - then they cannot complain when people criticize their ability to write and tell a story well that the fans will enjoy - particularly if this trilogy is to put an end to the entire Skywalker Saga, feels like they missed the boat really.
It would have been interesting if Johnson used this premise as to why Luke was secluded on the island and out of galactic view. He was searching for answers from the first Jedi Temple to give insight about the prophecy of his father's existence and in turn his own existence, the cycle of dark rising to meet the light and how he can end the cycle if it was Anakin's destiny to do so, why is it continuing - would have made the story much more interesting, as well as given Luke a reason to be secluded as he was, more so in keeping with his character and not upset as many fans compared to the version we got.
Just my 2 cents on the matter. But can't cry over spilt milk now, might as well just throw out the empty carton so to speak. Which is a huge reason why I am not interested in seeing E9.
George Lucas doesn’t own Star Wars anymore. What he says isn’t canon. And canon can always change. “Always in motion is the future.”
The irony is that Lucas himself has changed Star Wars countless times until he sold it off and gave up control of it.
Thank goodness.
You weren't looking forward to Episode VII: Luke and Leia's Fantastic Voyage?
“[The next three Star Wars films] were going to get into a microbiotic world. But there’s this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force… If I’d held onto the company I could have done it, and then it would have been done. Of course, a lot of the fans would have hated it, just like they did Phantom Menace and everything, but at least the whole story from beginning to end would be told.”
“Back in the day, I used to say ultimately what this means is we were just cars, vehicles for the Whills to travel around in….We’re vessels for them. And the conduit is the midichlorians. The midichlorians are the ones that communicate with the Whills. The Whills, in a general sense, they are the Force… All the way back to—with the Force and the Jedi and everything—the whole concept of how things happen was laid out completely from [the beginning] to the end. But I never got to finish. I never got to tell people about it.”
So basically, magic protozoa made the chosen one......anyway, it's turtles, all the way down.
Would have been better than what we got most likely, and certainly could have explained the prophecy of the chosen one and Anakin's creation and purpose.
I don't think anything can explain the "prophecy of the chosen one" because Lucas probably just made it up to sound cool and didn't have this grand vision that so many fans long for. He improvised, a lot. Good for us, he was really good at it. You'll just drive yourself crazy if you're looking for an explanation to any of it that makes sense in the construct of your world view.
You're right, nothing can adequately explain the prophecy because it was a bad idea when Lucas wrote it. But write it he did and he made it the central theme of his PT, then went back and shoehorned it into the Special Edition OT, and now here we are stuck with this ridiculous premise but THAT'S THE STORY and the ST must acknowledge that. If they don't, then everything that came before was pointless ... and by proxy so is everything that comes after. It's just flashy scenes with blasters, laser swords, and space ships without a story.
This is also why simply discarding the EU was a bad move. Why should anybody care about future story development if the creators are simply going to discard it as obsolete, old content whenever it suits them?
Let the past die, kill it if you have to. And while you're at it, kill the future too. Great move, thanks Kylo!
George Lucas doesn’t own Star Wars anymore. What he says isn’t canon. And canon can always change. “Always in motion is the future.”
The irony is that Lucas himself has changed Star Wars countless times until he sold it off and gave up control of it.
Thank goodness.
You weren't looking forward to Episode VII: Luke and Leia's Fantastic Voyage?
“[The next three Star Wars films] were going to get into a microbiotic world. But there’s this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force… If I’d held onto the company I could have done it, and then it would have been done. Of course, a lot of the fans would have hated it, just like they did Phantom Menace and everything, but at least the whole story from beginning to end would be told.”
“Back in the day, I used to say ultimately what this means is we were just cars, vehicles for the Whills to travel around in….We’re vessels for them. And the conduit is the midichlorians. The midichlorians are the ones that communicate with the Whills. The Whills, in a general sense, they are the Force… All the way back to—with the Force and the Jedi and everything—the whole concept of how things happen was laid out completely from [the beginning] to the end. But I never got to finish. I never got to tell people about it.”
So basically, magic protozoa made the chosen one......anyway, it's turtles, all the way down.
Would have been better than what we got most likely, and certainly could have explained the prophecy of the chosen one and Anakin's creation and purpose.
I don't think anything can explain the "prophecy of the chosen one" because Lucas probably just made it up to sound cool and didn't have this grand vision that so many fans long for. He improvised, a lot. Good for us, he was really good at it. You'll just drive yourself crazy if you're looking for an explanation to any of it that makes sense in the construct of your world view.
You're right, nothing can adequately explain the prophecy because it was a bad idea when Lucas wrote it. But write it he did and he made it the central theme of his PT, then went back and shoehorned it into the Special Edition OT, and now here we are stuck with this ridiculous premise but THAT'S THE STORY and the ST must acknowledge that. If they don't, then everything that came before was pointless ... and by proxy so is everything that comes after. It's just flashy scenes with blasters, laser swords, and space ships without a story.
This is also why simply discarding the EU was a bad move. Why should anybody care about future story development if the creators are simply going to discard it as obsolete, old content whenever it suits them?
Let the past die, kill it if you have to. And while you're at it, kill the future too. Great move, thanks Kylo!
From a story perspective, the ST doesn't have any big questions to answer IMHO, unless it wants to tackle the issue of "balance" in the force and finding a resting state for it. The Chosen One restores balance to the force - he did that by leaving essentially 2 sith and 2 jedi. Prophecy fulfilled. The OT ended up being about a father's redemption - also fully resolved. The ST has no inherent conflict - just more of the same. Good vs. Evil, Light vs. Dark, the epic struggle - Matrix style. The only sensible way to end the conflict is to end "the Force", or at least its ability to manifest physically in sentient beings. Maybe that's what happened, a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, and that's why we don't have force users here on Earth - Battlestar Galactica style ending anyone?
George Lucas doesn’t own Star Wars anymore. What he says isn’t canon. And canon can always change. “Always in motion is the future.”
The irony is that Lucas himself has changed Star Wars countless times until he sold it off and gave up control of it.
Thank goodness.
You weren't looking forward to Episode VII: Luke and Leia's Fantastic Voyage?
“[The next three Star Wars films] were going to get into a microbiotic world. But there’s this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force… If I’d held onto the company I could have done it, and then it would have been done. Of course, a lot of the fans would have hated it, just like they did Phantom Menace and everything, but at least the whole story from beginning to end would be told.”
“Back in the day, I used to say ultimately what this means is we were just cars, vehicles for the Whills to travel around in….We’re vessels for them. And the conduit is the midichlorians. The midichlorians are the ones that communicate with the Whills. The Whills, in a general sense, they are the Force… All the way back to—with the Force and the Jedi and everything—the whole concept of how things happen was laid out completely from [the beginning] to the end. But I never got to finish. I never got to tell people about it.”
So basically, magic protozoa made the chosen one......anyway, it's turtles, all the way down.
Would have been better than what we got most likely, and certainly could have explained the prophecy of the chosen one and Anakin's creation and purpose.
I don't think anything can explain the "prophecy of the chosen one" because Lucas probably just made it up to sound cool and didn't have this grand vision that so many fans long for. He improvised, a lot. Good for us, he was really good at it. You'll just drive yourself crazy if you're looking for an explanation to any of it that makes sense in the construct of your world view.
You're right, nothing can adequately explain the prophecy because it was a bad idea when Lucas wrote it. But write it he did and he made it the central theme of his PT, then went back and shoehorned it into the Special Edition OT, and now here we are stuck with this ridiculous premise but THAT'S THE STORY and the ST must acknowledge that. If they don't, then everything that came before was pointless ... and by proxy so is everything that comes after. It's just flashy scenes with blasters, laser swords, and space ships without a story.
This is also why simply discarding the EU was a bad move. Why should anybody care about future story development if the creators are simply going to discard it as obsolete, old content whenever it suits them?
Let the past die, kill it if you have to. And while you're at it, kill the future too. Great move, thanks Kylo!
From a story perspective, the ST doesn't have any big questions to answer IMHO, unless it wants to tackle the issue of "balance" in the force and finding a resting state for it. The Chosen One restores balance to the force - he did that by leaving essentially 2 sith and 2 jedi. Prophecy fulfilled. The OT ended up being about a father's redemption - also fully resolved. The ST has no inherent conflict - just more of the same. Good vs. Evil, Light vs. Dark, the epic struggle - Matrix style. The only sensible way to end the conflict is to end "the Force", or at least its ability to manifest physically in sentient beings. Maybe that's what happened, a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, and that's why we don't have force users here on Earth - Battlestar Galactica style ending anyone?
No that's not the story of the chosen one.
He restored balance to the force by eliminating the Jedi - their teachings had become corrupted and this is hinted at so many times in the movies:
* Yoda acknowledges that arrogance is a flaw more and more common among Jedi
* Mace WIndu is going to kill Palpatine out of fear of arresting him, because he would likely get away, having control over the senate and the courts.
* Mace's overall relationship toward Anakin is cold-hearted.
* Qui Gon not a member of the counsel as he feels they have lost their way and doesn't agree with them.
* Jedi are not allowed to love, as stated by Anakin. This is why Yoda and Obi Wan encourage Luke to kill Vader as he is not able to be redeemed, yet it was Lukes love for his father and Anakin's love for his son that redeemed him.
Once the Jedi order had been eradicated, Anakin was able to return to the light and destroy Palpatine - thus destroying the SIth (redeeming himself and destroying the last sith lord).
Luke was then left to rebuild a Jedi order - an uncorrupted Jedi order - balance in the force.
Lucas explains all of this himself in interviews.
Now we have the sequel trilogy, with a Jedi order destroyed and sith,suchas Palptaine returning. We now question if Anakin was the chosen one as Lucas himself has confirmed many times he was, because Rey or Kylo will be the ones to destroy Palpatine. This now makes the entire story of the saga twisted and without merit.
Lucas can't be trusted to explain anything because you can always go find an earlier version of Lucas saying something completely different.
Then show me where he has ever said that Anakin was not the chosen one - it doesn't exist.
Not the point.
It is the point, because if he contradicts himself on other matters then you can debate those particular statements or pick his most recent statement as the final statement/opinion.
If the creator of star wars has confirmed that Anakin was the chosen one, and never once wavered on that or said anything else but that - then it is what it is.
Honestly after Rian Johnson’s massive failure in The Last Jedi, the massive failure in the Han Solo movie NOBODY wanted, the 2 massive terrible money greedy Star Wars Battlefront games, who in the hell is looking forward to Episode 9?!?!???? EA and Disney completely killed all Star Wars hype for me and I could care less at this point
I agree with all of what you said except for BF2 being greedy and terrible. DICE has fixed it up(although they do over-nerf stuff) and added good stuff and there’s no paid DLC just optional cosmetics which can also be earned by playing. But for sure Disney screwed Star Wars and EA didn’t help much if at all
George Lucas doesn’t own Star Wars anymore. What he says isn’t canon. And canon can always change. “Always in motion is the future.”
The irony is that Lucas himself has changed Star Wars countless times until he sold it off and gave up control of it.
Thank goodness.
You weren't looking forward to Episode VII: Luke and Leia's Fantastic Voyage?
“[The next three Star Wars films] were going to get into a microbiotic world. But there’s this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force… If I’d held onto the company I could have done it, and then it would have been done. Of course, a lot of the fans would have hated it, just like they did Phantom Menace and everything, but at least the whole story from beginning to end would be told.”
“Back in the day, I used to say ultimately what this means is we were just cars, vehicles for the Whills to travel around in….We’re vessels for them. And the conduit is the midichlorians. The midichlorians are the ones that communicate with the Whills. The Whills, in a general sense, they are the Force… All the way back to—with the Force and the Jedi and everything—the whole concept of how things happen was laid out completely from [the beginning] to the end. But I never got to finish. I never got to tell people about it.”
So basically, magic protozoa made the chosen one......anyway, it's turtles, all the way down.
Would have been better than what we got most likely, and certainly could have explained the prophecy of the chosen one and Anakin's creation and purpose.
I don't think anything can explain the "prophecy of the chosen one" because Lucas probably just made it up to sound cool and didn't have this grand vision that so many fans long for. He improvised, a lot. Good for us, he was really good at it. You'll just drive yourself crazy if you're looking for an explanation to any of it that makes sense in the construct of your world view.
You're right, nothing can adequately explain the prophecy because it was a bad idea when Lucas wrote it. But write it he did and he made it the central theme of his PT, then went back and shoehorned it into the Special Edition OT, and now here we are stuck with this ridiculous premise but THAT'S THE STORY and the ST must acknowledge that. If they don't, then everything that came before was pointless ... and by proxy so is everything that comes after. It's just flashy scenes with blasters, laser swords, and space ships without a story.
This is also why simply discarding the EU was a bad move. Why should anybody care about future story development if the creators are simply going to discard it as obsolete, old content whenever it suits them?
Let the past die, kill it if you have to. And while you're at it, kill the future too. Great move, thanks Kylo!
From a story perspective, the ST doesn't have any big questions to answer IMHO, unless it wants to tackle the issue of "balance" in the force and finding a resting state for it. The Chosen One restores balance to the force - he did that by leaving essentially 2 sith and 2 jedi. Prophecy fulfilled. The OT ended up being about a father's redemption - also fully resolved. The ST has no inherent conflict - just more of the same. Good vs. Evil, Light vs. Dark, the epic struggle - Matrix style. The only sensible way to end the conflict is to end "the Force", or at least its ability to manifest physically in sentient beings. Maybe that's what happened, a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, and that's why we don't have force users here on Earth - Battlestar Galactica style ending anyone?
No that's not the story of the chosen one.
He restored balance to the force by eliminating the Jedi - their teachings had become corrupted and this is hinted at so many times in the movies:
* Yoda acknowledges that arrogance is a flaw more and more common among Jedi
* Mace WIndu is going to kill Palpatine out of fear of arresting him, because he would likely get away, having control over the senate and the courts.
* Mace's overall relationship toward Anakin is cold-hearted.
* Qui Gon not a member of the counsel as he feels they have lost their way and doesn't agree with them.
* Jedi are not allowed to love, as stated by Anakin. This is why Yoda and Obi Wan encourage Luke to kill Vader as he is not able to be redeemed, yet it was Lukes love for his father and Anakin's love for his son that redeemed him.
Once the Jedi order had been eradicated, Anakin was able to return to the light and destroy Palpatine - thus destroying the SIth (redeeming himself and destroying the last sith lord).
Luke was then left to rebuild a Jedi order - an uncorrupted Jedi order - balance in the force.
Lucas explains all of this himself in interviews.
Now we have the sequel trilogy, with a Jedi order destroyed and sith,suchas Palptaine returning. We now question if Anakin was the chosen one as Lucas himself has confirmed many times he was, because Rey or Kylo will be the ones to destroy Palpatine. This now makes the entire story of the saga twisted and without merit.
So much wrong with the sequels but sadly people will still pay to see the new movies. Main reason I dislike the ST is it overwrote the books storylines(they were way better)that were original/true canon and replaced with “new” canon that sucks in comparison. If it isn’t anakin that kills palp again then I’m done with Disney, it will contradict what Lucas has said. although I’ll probably not pay to see another Disney movie or even ep9 most likely since it’s crappy canon anyway
George Lucas doesn’t own Star Wars anymore. What he says isn’t canon. And canon can always change. “Always in motion is the future.”
The irony is that Lucas himself has changed Star Wars countless times until he sold it off and gave up control of it.
Thank goodness.
You weren't looking forward to Episode VII: Luke and Leia's Fantastic Voyage?
“[The next three Star Wars films] were going to get into a microbiotic world. But there’s this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force… If I’d held onto the company I could have done it, and then it would have been done. Of course, a lot of the fans would have hated it, just like they did Phantom Menace and everything, but at least the whole story from beginning to end would be told.”
“Back in the day, I used to say ultimately what this means is we were just cars, vehicles for the Whills to travel around in….We’re vessels for them. And the conduit is the midichlorians. The midichlorians are the ones that communicate with the Whills. The Whills, in a general sense, they are the Force… All the way back to—with the Force and the Jedi and everything—the whole concept of how things happen was laid out completely from [the beginning] to the end. But I never got to finish. I never got to tell people about it.”
So basically, magic protozoa made the chosen one......anyway, it's turtles, all the way down.
Would have been better than what we got most likely, and certainly could have explained the prophecy of the chosen one and Anakin's creation and purpose.
I don't think anything can explain the "prophecy of the chosen one" because Lucas probably just made it up to sound cool and didn't have this grand vision that so many fans long for. He improvised, a lot. Good for us, he was really good at it. You'll just drive yourself crazy if you're looking for an explanation to any of it that makes sense in the construct of your world view.
You're right, nothing can adequately explain the prophecy because it was a bad idea when Lucas wrote it. But write it he did and he made it the central theme of his PT, then went back and shoehorned it into the Special Edition OT, and now here we are stuck with this ridiculous premise but THAT'S THE STORY and the ST must acknowledge that. If they don't, then everything that came before was pointless ... and by proxy so is everything that comes after. It's just flashy scenes with blasters, laser swords, and space ships without a story.
This is also why simply discarding the EU was a bad move. Why should anybody care about future story development if the creators are simply going to discard it as obsolete, old content whenever it suits them?
Let the past die, kill it if you have to. And while you're at it, kill the future too. Great move, thanks Kylo!
From a story perspective, the ST doesn't have any big questions to answer IMHO, unless it wants to tackle the issue of "balance" in the force and finding a resting state for it. The Chosen One restores balance to the force - he did that by leaving essentially 2 sith and 2 jedi. Prophecy fulfilled. The OT ended up being about a father's redemption - also fully resolved. The ST has no inherent conflict - just more of the same. Good vs. Evil, Light vs. Dark, the epic struggle - Matrix style. The only sensible way to end the conflict is to end "the Force", or at least its ability to manifest physically in sentient beings. Maybe that's what happened, a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, and that's why we don't have force users here on Earth - Battlestar Galactica style ending anyone?
No that's not the story of the chosen one.
He restored balance to the force by eliminating the Jedi - their teachings had become corrupted and this is hinted at so many times in the movies:
* Yoda acknowledges that arrogance is a flaw more and more common among Jedi
* Mace WIndu is going to kill Palpatine out of fear of arresting him, because he would likely get away, having control over the senate and the courts.
* Mace's overall relationship toward Anakin is cold-hearted.
* Qui Gon not a member of the counsel as he feels they have lost their way and doesn't agree with them.
* Jedi are not allowed to love, as stated by Anakin. This is why Yoda and Obi Wan encourage Luke to kill Vader as he is not able to be redeemed, yet it was Lukes love for his father and Anakin's love for his son that redeemed him.
Once the Jedi order had been eradicated, Anakin was able to return to the light and destroy Palpatine - thus destroying the SIth (redeeming himself and destroying the last sith lord).
Luke was then left to rebuild a Jedi order - an uncorrupted Jedi order - balance in the force.
Lucas explains all of this himself in interviews.
Now we have the sequel trilogy, with a Jedi order destroyed and sith,suchas Palptaine returning. We now question if Anakin was the chosen one as Lucas himself has confirmed many times he was, because Rey or Kylo will be the ones to destroy Palpatine. This now makes the entire story of the saga twisted and without merit.
So much wrong with the sequels but sadly people will still pay to see the new movies. Main reason I dislike the ST is it overwrote the books storylines(they were way better)that were original/true canon and replaced with “new” canon that sucks in comparison. If it isn’t anakin that kills palp again then I’m done with Disney, it will contradict what Lucas has said. although I’ll probably not pay to see another Disney movie or even ep9 most likely since it’s crappy canon anyway
Sadly people are now believing the excerpt from the "Journal of the Whills" as wording for the prophecy, being:
"First comes the day
Then comes the night.
After the darkness
Shines through the light.
The difference, they say,
Is only made right
By the resolving of gray
Through refined Jedi sight."
However it is confirmed that:
"The Journal of the Whills was a record of events in the galaxy. Long after the Galactic Civil War, an individual was tasked with writing about events that transpired in the galaxy.
Verse 7:477 of the journal referenced the Jedi, containing a poem concerning the dark side and the light side of the Force."
If the Journal of the Whills was written long after the events of Return of the Jedi, then clearly the original prophecy long pre-dates the wording contained in the Journal.
The original wording of the prophecy is of this:
"A Chosen One shall come, born of no father, and through him will ultimate balance in the Force be restored."
Now, people argue that the prophecy was misread and it is not clear that Anakin was the Chosen One.
Again, Lucas confirmed it was. The misread part further speaks to the arrogance/corruption of the Jedi - failing to see their own corruption and failing to see that the Chosen One is the Chosen One of the Force, not just a champion of the Jedi and Light. They believed that it was misread at that point.
Additionally only the Chosen One could have had the power over the Son and Daughter of Mortis, Anakin was able to show that he did.
Obi Wan also confirmed Luke as the Chosen One to Maul in Rebels. Because Obi Wan still believed that Anakin could not have been the Chosen One as he fell tot he darkside, but Luke clearly had a father.
Filoni also confirms in interviews that Obi Wan was confused and had misplaced hip hope in Luke as the Chosen One. Therefore, Anakin as the chosen one has been confirmed under the Disney banner.
This them again resurfaces as Yoda reminds Obi Wan that there is another...Leia. But Leia cannot be the Chosen One anymore than Luke.
FDans of the sequel trilogy point to Rey as the Chosen One and that the "other" Yoda spoke of was Rey. This is false. As the darkside held sway over the galaxy. The Jedi's power to use this ability to sense the future through the force had diminished as Mace admits in E3. Yoda himself states "The Dark Side clouds everything, impossible to see, the future is."
And even if the Darkside wasn't clouding their vision, "Always in motion is the future" Yoda states, meaning that it is forever changing. Yoda could not possibly see or predict Rey.
Now as far as Disney Start Wars goes, it is possible that Kylo could "finish what you (Anakin, not Vader) started". Kylo has always struggled between the realms of light and dark. Additionally, he wants the Jedi and Sith to end - let the past die. Clearly "balance in the force" is what he is striving for.
He is also of Skywalker bloodline. So "through him (the chosen one/Anakin) will ultimate balance in the Force be restored."
This is the only way Disney can spin it. The true hero of the Sequel Trilogy is Kylo, NOT Rey.
But again, this still mucks about with the intention behind the story of the chosen one, as per the creator of star wars, George Lucas. Additionally, the poor writing and character development as well as disrespect of longstanding legacy characters such as Luke as well as the return of Palpatine all undermine what star wars is and what it has meant to so many fans before Disney came along.
I honestly cannot see how the wrongs created by E8 could ever be set right, especially as E9 continunes on from E8, in my opinion this sequel trilogy has passed the point of no return and is crashing and burning.
Disney needs to focus on the Mandalorian, Obi Wan show, return of the Clone Wars and the KOTOR trilogy in order to revive the franchise and unite the shattered fanbase.
Disney needs to focus on the Mandalorian, Obi Wan show, return of the Clone Wars and the KOTOR trilogy in order to revive the franchise and unite the shattered fanbase.
It's not like the Republic is at stake (the real one, not the fake one). Why does the "shattered" fan base have to unite, and what do we have to unite on? And clearly, Anakin wasn't the Chosen One... Filoni has recently made it very clear who is.
Anakin was the Chosen one as he brought balance by ending the Jedi and Sith. When Luke set up the Jedi temple he started it all in motion again as the darkside had to get stronger to balance the lightside Luke built back up. This brings Snoke into play and then Kylo Ren. Once Klyo Ren destroyed the Jedi temple and all the Jedi the balance was once again broken. Then Luke cuts himself off from the force and this unbalance lets the lightside balance itself with the almighty Rey. The balance shifted back to equal once Snoke was gone. At the end of 8 there is balance with the force as far as we knew. With Sidious back he can be the Father, Kylo Ren can be the Son and Rey the daughter.
Why wasn't Cobb Vanth shards a reward for the Krayt Dragon raid? Why wasn't Endor Gear Luke shards a reward for the Speeder Bike raid?
Disney needs to focus on the Mandalorian, Obi Wan show, return of the Clone Wars and the KOTOR trilogy in order to revive the franchise and unite the shattered fanbase.
It's not like the Republic is at stake (the real one, not the fake one). Why does the "shattered" fan base have to unite, and what do we have to unite on? And clearly, Anakin wasn't the Chosen One... Filoni has recently made it very clear who is.
The fanbase has to unite inr egard to how it has been shattered by the sequelt trilogy and in particular the events of TLJ.
To a lot of people, including myself, the sequel trilogy is an absolute write off. WIth the likes of Solo that flopped, star wars needs a big hit and something ALL fans can feel passionate about again - its been a long time since that happened. The Mandalorian seems to be doing a good job, thus far.
Anakin was the Chosen one as he brought balance by ending the Jedi and Sith. When Luke set up the Jedi temple he started it all in motion again as the darkside had to get stronger to balance the lightside Luke built back up. This brings Snoke into play and then Kylo Ren. Once Klyo Ren destroyed the Jedi temple and all the Jedi the balance was once again broken. Then Luke cuts himself off from the force and this unbalance lets the lightside balance itself with the almighty Rey. The balance shifted back to equal once Snoke was gone. At the end of 8 there is balance with the force as far as we knew. With Sidious back he can be the Father, Kylo Ren can be the Son and Rey the daughter.
But if the force could essentially "balance itself" with dark rising to meet light and vice versa - then there was no need of a prophesized "Chosen One" to bring balance.
What unbalanced the force was the poor writing of this sequel trilogy. EU were always just stories to me, so took what they offered with a grain of salt.
Balance in the force was this:
* Back in the beginning were the Jedaii who used balance in the force as the followed both Asha (light) and Bogan (dark), until the faction split - essentially and eventually creating what became known as Jedi and Sith.
* By the time of PT rolled around, the Jedi had become corrupted. Their teaching became that the light was the true purpose of the force and the dark should be avoided. They also in time no longer served the people of the Republic, but the senate, which also had become politically greedy and corrupt.
As you can see in the PT, Yoda exclaims that arrogance was a flaw more and more common among Jedi.
Mace Windu was cold towards Anakin. He even acted out of fear, to kill Sidious, as he feared a defeated Sidious still had control over the senate and the courts to get free.
The Jedi believed emotion was taboo. They are all cold, not just Mace. Shut off. Anakin said that Jedi are not allowed to love, but twisted the Jedi philosophy in his mind in that they are "encouraged to love" which isn't true at all. To love something truly, you are attached to it - which is forbidden.
The Jedi did not allow Anakin to act on his feelings to save his mother, as he felt her in pain. She died because he did not act in time. He was also forced to marry Padme in secret.
Love was the reason that drove Anakin to the darkside. Part of the "Balance" in the force was to eradicate the corrupt Jedi.
* Come the events OT. Obi Wan and Yoda, still failed to see that the Jedi philosophy was corrupt. They failed to consider that Anakin wasn't truly gone and urged Luke to face Vader and defeat him and the emperor.
Bit it was Luke's emotions that allowed him to prevail. It was his anger born from the love and protection of his sister that allowed him to defeat Vader. It was the love for his father that stayed his hand for killing Vader.
In turn it was Vader's love for his son that redeemed him and became Anakin Skywalker again.
It was then Anakin who destroyed the last Sith Lord, fulfilling the prophecy and bringing balance to the force.
* Luke was the sole-surviving Jedi and tasked to rebuild the order as per Yoda's instruction. But Luke was free and clear of the teachings that corrupted the Jedi in the first place. He understood the importance of feelings - anger as well as Love. His future Jedi would have been more like the Jedaii of old and balance would be restored.
Replies
The irony is that Lucas himself has changed Star Wars countless times until he sold it off and gave up control of it.
Thank goodness.
That's because I have superiority in this little debate - I just blew you out of the water and you are still grasping at straws - very well continue to moan about it, I don't think any one is listening any more.
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I’m sorry, but you sound slightly immature. You just claimed superiority for yourself and then said you blew him out of the water. Of course that’s what you are going to think. You can’t just assume you are right.
It's ok, just claim the high ground and you'll be able to say or do what you'd like. lol
Yep - took a leaf outta Obi Wan's book - he had the superiority, or high ground, in his argument, or negotiations with a lightsaber, and blew Anakin out of the water, or in his case into the lava
I don't care if I or Obi Wan sound immature, it is what it is.
Clearly immature right?
You weren't looking forward to Episode VII: Luke and Leia's Fantastic Voyage?
So basically, magic protozoa made the chosen one......anyway, it's turtles, all the way down.
Would have been better than what we got most likely, and certainly could have explained the prophecy of the chosen one and Anakin's creation and purpose.
I don't think anything can explain the "prophecy of the chosen one" because Lucas probably just made it up to sound cool and didn't have this grand vision that so many fans long for. He improvised, a lot. Good for us, he was really good at it. You'll just drive yourself crazy if you're looking for an explanation to any of it that makes sense in the construct of your world view.
I guess the annoyance is that they could have built more of a story around that and made it all more interesting and also tying the films together based on that plot line.
But they didn't do that for whatever reason so now its the big elephant in the room, that does drive a lot of fans crazy. Its not too much for fans wanting a coherent story, but your right, if all it does now is serve a purpose for fans to repeatedly beat their heads against a brick wall over it, what's the point of continuing to do so?
I guess it would help answer questions such as why the Sith are returning (Palpatine's return in TROS) or why Rey (not a skywalker) can easily best Kylo (who is a direct descendant of the chosen one) - even if Rey does have lineage to Palpatine, as is speculated by many at this point - Anakin's blood line is supposed to be the most powerful in the force - so from those perspectives there is no blame on fans wanting to know more. Otherwise the story is just a big non-coherent mess. But if that's what Disney want, then so be it - then they cannot complain when people criticize their ability to write and tell a story well that the fans will enjoy - particularly if this trilogy is to put an end to the entire Skywalker Saga, feels like they missed the boat really.
Just my 2 cents on the matter. But can't cry over spilt milk now, might as well just throw out the empty carton so to speak. Which is a huge reason why I am not interested in seeing E9.
You're right, nothing can adequately explain the prophecy because it was a bad idea when Lucas wrote it. But write it he did and he made it the central theme of his PT, then went back and shoehorned it into the Special Edition OT, and now here we are stuck with this ridiculous premise but THAT'S THE STORY and the ST must acknowledge that. If they don't, then everything that came before was pointless ... and by proxy so is everything that comes after. It's just flashy scenes with blasters, laser swords, and space ships without a story.
This is also why simply discarding the EU was a bad move. Why should anybody care about future story development if the creators are simply going to discard it as obsolete, old content whenever it suits them?
Let the past die, kill it if you have to. And while you're at it, kill the future too. Great move, thanks Kylo!
From a story perspective, the ST doesn't have any big questions to answer IMHO, unless it wants to tackle the issue of "balance" in the force and finding a resting state for it. The Chosen One restores balance to the force - he did that by leaving essentially 2 sith and 2 jedi. Prophecy fulfilled. The OT ended up being about a father's redemption - also fully resolved. The ST has no inherent conflict - just more of the same. Good vs. Evil, Light vs. Dark, the epic struggle - Matrix style. The only sensible way to end the conflict is to end "the Force", or at least its ability to manifest physically in sentient beings. Maybe that's what happened, a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, and that's why we don't have force users here on Earth - Battlestar Galactica style ending anyone?
No that's not the story of the chosen one.
He restored balance to the force by eliminating the Jedi - their teachings had become corrupted and this is hinted at so many times in the movies:
* Yoda acknowledges that arrogance is a flaw more and more common among Jedi
* Mace WIndu is going to kill Palpatine out of fear of arresting him, because he would likely get away, having control over the senate and the courts.
* Mace's overall relationship toward Anakin is cold-hearted.
* Qui Gon not a member of the counsel as he feels they have lost their way and doesn't agree with them.
* Jedi are not allowed to love, as stated by Anakin. This is why Yoda and Obi Wan encourage Luke to kill Vader as he is not able to be redeemed, yet it was Lukes love for his father and Anakin's love for his son that redeemed him.
Once the Jedi order had been eradicated, Anakin was able to return to the light and destroy Palpatine - thus destroying the SIth (redeeming himself and destroying the last sith lord).
Luke was then left to rebuild a Jedi order - an uncorrupted Jedi order - balance in the force.
Lucas explains all of this himself in interviews.
Now we have the sequel trilogy, with a Jedi order destroyed and sith,suchas Palptaine returning. We now question if Anakin was the chosen one as Lucas himself has confirmed many times he was, because Rey or Kylo will be the ones to destroy Palpatine. This now makes the entire story of the saga twisted and without merit.
Then show me where he has ever said that Anakin was not the chosen one - it doesn't exist.
Not the point.
It is the point, because if he contradicts himself on other matters then you can debate those particular statements or pick his most recent statement as the final statement/opinion.
If the creator of star wars has confirmed that Anakin was the chosen one, and never once wavered on that or said anything else but that - then it is what it is.
I agree with all of what you said except for BF2 being greedy and terrible. DICE has fixed it up(although they do over-nerf stuff) and added good stuff and there’s no paid DLC just optional cosmetics which can also be earned by playing. But for sure Disney screwed Star Wars and EA didn’t help much if at all
So much wrong with the sequels but sadly people will still pay to see the new movies. Main reason I dislike the ST is it overwrote the books storylines(they were way better)that were original/true canon and replaced with “new” canon that sucks in comparison. If it isn’t anakin that kills palp again then I’m done with Disney, it will contradict what Lucas has said. although I’ll probably not pay to see another Disney movie or even ep9 most likely since it’s crappy canon anyway
Sadly people are now believing the excerpt from the "Journal of the Whills" as wording for the prophecy, being:
"First comes the day
Then comes the night.
After the darkness
Shines through the light.
The difference, they say,
Is only made right
By the resolving of gray
Through refined Jedi sight."
However it is confirmed that:
"The Journal of the Whills was a record of events in the galaxy. Long after the Galactic Civil War, an individual was tasked with writing about events that transpired in the galaxy.
Verse 7:477 of the journal referenced the Jedi, containing a poem concerning the dark side and the light side of the Force."
If the Journal of the Whills was written long after the events of Return of the Jedi, then clearly the original prophecy long pre-dates the wording contained in the Journal.
The original wording of the prophecy is of this:
"A Chosen One shall come, born of no father, and through him will ultimate balance in the Force be restored."
Now, people argue that the prophecy was misread and it is not clear that Anakin was the Chosen One.
Again, Lucas confirmed it was. The misread part further speaks to the arrogance/corruption of the Jedi - failing to see their own corruption and failing to see that the Chosen One is the Chosen One of the Force, not just a champion of the Jedi and Light. They believed that it was misread at that point.
Additionally only the Chosen One could have had the power over the Son and Daughter of Mortis, Anakin was able to show that he did.
Obi Wan also confirmed Luke as the Chosen One to Maul in Rebels. Because Obi Wan still believed that Anakin could not have been the Chosen One as he fell tot he darkside, but Luke clearly had a father.
Filoni also confirms in interviews that Obi Wan was confused and had misplaced hip hope in Luke as the Chosen One. Therefore, Anakin as the chosen one has been confirmed under the Disney banner.
This them again resurfaces as Yoda reminds Obi Wan that there is another...Leia. But Leia cannot be the Chosen One anymore than Luke.
FDans of the sequel trilogy point to Rey as the Chosen One and that the "other" Yoda spoke of was Rey. This is false. As the darkside held sway over the galaxy. The Jedi's power to use this ability to sense the future through the force had diminished as Mace admits in E3. Yoda himself states "The Dark Side clouds everything, impossible to see, the future is."
And even if the Darkside wasn't clouding their vision, "Always in motion is the future" Yoda states, meaning that it is forever changing. Yoda could not possibly see or predict Rey.
Now as far as Disney Start Wars goes, it is possible that Kylo could "finish what you (Anakin, not Vader) started". Kylo has always struggled between the realms of light and dark. Additionally, he wants the Jedi and Sith to end - let the past die. Clearly "balance in the force" is what he is striving for.
He is also of Skywalker bloodline. So "through him (the chosen one/Anakin) will ultimate balance in the Force be restored."
This is the only way Disney can spin it. The true hero of the Sequel Trilogy is Kylo, NOT Rey.
But again, this still mucks about with the intention behind the story of the chosen one, as per the creator of star wars, George Lucas. Additionally, the poor writing and character development as well as disrespect of longstanding legacy characters such as Luke as well as the return of Palpatine all undermine what star wars is and what it has meant to so many fans before Disney came along.
I honestly cannot see how the wrongs created by E8 could ever be set right, especially as E9 continunes on from E8, in my opinion this sequel trilogy has passed the point of no return and is crashing and burning.
Disney needs to focus on the Mandalorian, Obi Wan show, return of the Clone Wars and the KOTOR trilogy in order to revive the franchise and unite the shattered fanbase.
Sorry for the long post
It's not like the Republic is at stake (the real one, not the fake one). Why does the "shattered" fan base have to unite, and what do we have to unite on? And clearly, Anakin wasn't the Chosen One... Filoni has recently made it very clear who is.
The fanbase has to unite inr egard to how it has been shattered by the sequelt trilogy and in particular the events of TLJ.
To a lot of people, including myself, the sequel trilogy is an absolute write off. WIth the likes of Solo that flopped, star wars needs a big hit and something ALL fans can feel passionate about again - its been a long time since that happened. The Mandalorian seems to be doing a good job, thus far.
But if the force could essentially "balance itself" with dark rising to meet light and vice versa - then there was no need of a prophesized "Chosen One" to bring balance.
What unbalanced the force was the poor writing of this sequel trilogy. EU were always just stories to me, so took what they offered with a grain of salt.
Balance in the force was this:
* Back in the beginning were the Jedaii who used balance in the force as the followed both Asha (light) and Bogan (dark), until the faction split - essentially and eventually creating what became known as Jedi and Sith.
* By the time of PT rolled around, the Jedi had become corrupted. Their teaching became that the light was the true purpose of the force and the dark should be avoided. They also in time no longer served the people of the Republic, but the senate, which also had become politically greedy and corrupt.
As you can see in the PT, Yoda exclaims that arrogance was a flaw more and more common among Jedi.
Mace Windu was cold towards Anakin. He even acted out of fear, to kill Sidious, as he feared a defeated Sidious still had control over the senate and the courts to get free.
The Jedi believed emotion was taboo. They are all cold, not just Mace. Shut off. Anakin said that Jedi are not allowed to love, but twisted the Jedi philosophy in his mind in that they are "encouraged to love" which isn't true at all. To love something truly, you are attached to it - which is forbidden.
The Jedi did not allow Anakin to act on his feelings to save his mother, as he felt her in pain. She died because he did not act in time. He was also forced to marry Padme in secret.
Love was the reason that drove Anakin to the darkside. Part of the "Balance" in the force was to eradicate the corrupt Jedi.
* Come the events OT. Obi Wan and Yoda, still failed to see that the Jedi philosophy was corrupt. They failed to consider that Anakin wasn't truly gone and urged Luke to face Vader and defeat him and the emperor.
Bit it was Luke's emotions that allowed him to prevail. It was his anger born from the love and protection of his sister that allowed him to defeat Vader. It was the love for his father that stayed his hand for killing Vader.
In turn it was Vader's love for his son that redeemed him and became Anakin Skywalker again.
It was then Anakin who destroyed the last Sith Lord, fulfilling the prophecy and bringing balance to the force.
* Luke was the sole-surviving Jedi and tasked to rebuild the order as per Yoda's instruction. But Luke was free and clear of the teachings that corrupted the Jedi in the first place. He understood the importance of feelings - anger as well as Love. His future Jedi would have been more like the Jedaii of old and balance would be restored.
Figure this one ends with Rey balancing the Force and going from there.