GAC Matchmaking - Zetas, G13, and 6 dot Mods

Replies

  • dimi4a wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    You can continue to repeat it as much as you want, it will never change the fact that

    a) They say these types of things all the time and there's no guarantee anything will change
    b) If something does change there's no guarantee it will help you, in fact it might make it worse for you
    c) You have control over your roster, and no control over what CG does

    a) It most likely will
    b) It will make MM closer to being fair, eliminating the big advantages-disadvantages between players as much as possible
    c) Correct on both, but still these re-evaluations will most likely happen
    But still, it won't invalidate his point about chosing your zetas more carefully instead of throwing a zeta whenever you get one on some random toon.
  • Dar_Penthar
    370 posts Member
    edited September 6
    But still, it won't invalidate his point about chosing your zetas more carefully instead of throwing a zeta whenever you get one on some random toon.

    Wait so throwing those 2 zetas on farm boy Luke wasn't a good idea? Seriously though, why should improving your roster generate a negative effect? The answer is it shouldn't, so they need to fix the GP evaluations because they are still FUBAR

  • TVF
    15164 posts Member
    But still, it won't invalidate his point about chosing your zetas more carefully instead of throwing a zeta whenever you get one on some random toon.

    Wait so throwing those 2 zetas on farm boy Luke wasn't a good idea? Seriously though, why should improving your roster generate a negative effect? The answer is it shouldn't, so they need to fix the GP evaluations because they are still FUBAR

    Because this game is about making choices. Some are better than others. And someone who makes smarter choices should get an advantage for doing so.
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  • But still, it won't invalidate his point about chosing your zetas more carefully instead of throwing a zeta whenever you get one on some random toon.

    Wait so throwing those 2 zetas on farm boy Luke wasn't a good idea? Seriously though, why should improving your roster generate a negative effect? The answer is it shouldn't, so they need to fix the GP evaluations because they are still FUBAR

    Improving your roster means it is more powerful therefore your matched against more powerful rosters in GA.

    This is logic and fair not a negative effect.

    It's only negative if you beleif is that u want to add a bunch of zetas making your teams better and still get to fight against weaker rosters that you fought before u had those zetas.
  • ZAP
    412 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    But still, it won't invalidate his point about chosing your zetas more carefully instead of throwing a zeta whenever you get one on some random toon.

    Wait so throwing those 2 zetas on farm boy Luke wasn't a good idea? Seriously though, why should improving your roster generate a negative effect? The answer is it shouldn't, so they need to fix the GP evaluations because they are still FUBAR

    Because this game is about making choices. Some are better than others. And someone who makes smarter choices should get an advantage for doing so.

    What you’re saying isn’t invalid, but not entirely accurate either.

    There are some zetas that at the time they were placed, they were very good, but then became useless and now are counted against you.

    Why do you ignore that fact and stick to saying that people made bad or less than smart choices?
  • TVF wrote: »

    Because this game is about making choices. Some are better than others. And someone who makes smarter choices should get an advantage for doing so.

    I disagree to some extent here. At its core this is a collection based game where the main objective is collecting all the characters and leveling/improving them. With that being the premise there should be essentially no punishment for playing the game as intended.

    Adding Zetas and gear should always be a benefit to the player and that is not always the case (i.e. zzFBL). So CG should better balance the GP structure in a way that players are not penalized for playing the game as intended.



  • TVF wrote: »

    Because this game is about making choices. Some are better than others. And someone who makes smarter choices should get an advantage for doing so.

    I disagree to some extent here. At its core this is a collection based game where the main objective is collecting all the characters and leveling/improving them. With that being the premise there should be essentially no punishment for playing the game as intended.
    I wonder how two useless zetas help your collection.
  • dimi4a
    1166 posts Member
    dimi4a wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    You can continue to repeat it as much as you want, it will never change the fact that

    a) They say these types of things all the time and there's no guarantee anything will change
    b) If something does change there's no guarantee it will help you, in fact it might make it worse for you
    c) You have control over your roster, and no control over what CG does

    a) It most likely will
    b) It will make MM closer to being fair, eliminating the big advantages-disadvantages between players as much as possible
    c) Correct on both, but still these re-evaluations will most likely happen
    But still, it won't invalidate his point about chosing your zetas more carefully instead of throwing a zeta whenever you get one on some random toon.

    I am choosing my Zetas carefully, but still the GP will likely be re-evaluated.
  • Dar_Penthar
    370 posts Member
    edited September 6
    I wonder how two useless zetas help your collection.

    Well the point is it should help my roster because collecting items, gear, and zetas is the basis for the entire game.

    The issue is that adding a zeta that increases my GP by 2500 is no where near the equivalent of taking four G12 to G13, but in terms of GP they are weighted the same (provided G13 is a 600 GP increase I can't remember the exact number).

  • Vice_torn wrote: »
    DHudson wrote: »
    The amount of gear, zetas, G13 toons, G12 toons, and mods will scale relative to your GP growth.

    Wrong, because g13 and mods do not add enough GP. The power of your roster does not scale with GP.

    Leta say a wookie a droid and a porg, all start with the exact same roster. The porg adds 10 zetas and increases her GP 25k.. The droid buys 50 vaults and takes 500 mods to 6dot. The wookie buys 60 vaults and rakes 40 chars to g13.

    They all end up with the same GP... I suppose we should let the wookie win.

    For arguments sake let's say they each started out with 40 G11 characters. Who wins depends on which characters, who got the zetas, which mods, mod stats, and which toons were taken to G13. If you have 8 G13 squads with no mods and no zetas vs my 8 G11 squads with no mods and 10 zetas I'm going to win. Not only that you are going to get destroyed. If the mods increased stats enough same effect; faster BSF on def and you and your 40 G13 characters lost. It still goes back to resource management and mindset.

    What's truly fascinating; you created a scenario to drive home your argument and the 40 G13 toons is going to lose every time.

    You play not to lose. I play to win.
  • TVF
    15164 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »

    Because this game is about making choices. Some are better than others. And someone who makes smarter choices should get an advantage for doing so.

    I disagree to some extent here. At its core this is a collection based game where the main objective is collecting all the characters and leveling/improving them.

    That's your interpretation of the objective of the game.

    You can play that way if you want but in a competitive game mode such as GAC, you should expect to be penalized for it.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    But still, it won't invalidate his point about chosing your zetas more carefully instead of throwing a zeta whenever you get one on some random toon.

    Wait so throwing those 2 zetas on farm boy Luke wasn't a good idea? Seriously though, why should improving your roster generate a negative effect? The answer is it shouldn't, so they need to fix the GP evaluations because they are still FUBAR

    Because this game is about making choices. Some are better than others. And someone who makes smarter choices should get an advantage for doing so.

    And this game mode is equally about being penalized for choices that were made under prior circumstances with the best knowledge at the time.

    First it was bringing every unusable character to G8 to maximize TB performance. Now it's putting a zeta on any squad/leader that doesn't have a home in a 12 or 16 squad GA format. As new squads are introduced, old squads become obsolete, bringing their not-so-obsolete GP into specific focus.

    Matchmaking will always be picking winners. It is a conceptually fundamentally flawed game mode.

    I do agree with you about getting an advantage for makings smarter choices - let's go back to pure GP match then.
  • TVF wrote: »

    That's your interpretation of the objective of the game.

    You can play that way if you want but in a competitive game mode such as GAC, you should expect to be penalized for it.

    No not really my interpretation of the game. It is literally in the game description on the Appstore:
    Live your Star Wars™ dreams as you fight with your favorite dark and light side heroes across iconic locations to become master of the galaxy. ... You're free to choose as you construct elite light and dark side teams while collecting heroes and other characters from the Star Wars™ universe.



  • TVF
    15164 posts Member
    You should have bolded "you're free to choose" with extra emphasis on "choose."

    I mean, if any of that was relevant anyway, which it isn't. The actual game is reality. Not a random app store blurb.
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  • TVF wrote: »
    You should have bolded "you're free to choose" with extra emphasis on "choose."

    I mean, if any of that was relevant anyway, which it isn't. The actual game is reality. Not a random app store blurb.

    CG controls the description so if it's not relevant shouldn't they update it? Right now this is how the App is marketed to new players so per CG this is a collection based game.
  • Liath
    4381 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    You should have bolded "you're free to choose" with extra emphasis on "choose."

    I mean, if any of that was relevant anyway, which it isn't. The actual game is reality. Not a random app store blurb.

    CG controls the description so if it's not relevant shouldn't they update it? Right now this is how the App is marketed to new players so per CG this is a collection based game.

    It says you collect heroes, which just a fact. That's a thing you do in the game. That doesn't make it a "collection based game" "at its core" or mean that the collection aspect is the "main objective." It certainly doesn't mean that you won't be penalized for making poor choices with your collection - various aspects of the game have always benefited players who made the correct choices over those who did not.
  • Dar_Penthar
    370 posts Member
    edited September 6
    Liath wrote: »

    It says you collect heroes, which just a fact. That's a thing you do in the game. That doesn't make it a "collection based game" "at its core" or mean that the collection aspect is the "main objective." It certainly doesn't mean that you won't be penalized for making poor choices with your collection - various aspects of the game have always benefited players who made the correct choices over those who did not.

    So how do you play the game if you don't collect heroes? Why is this an argument, this is a collection based game. You can't play or improve anything if you don't first collect things.

    The part that is up for discussion is why is there a penalty for collecting the wrong things? Especially if a player is "free to choose" A forced meta is not exactly what I would call freedom. (I get they need to make money and a forced meta is a driving revenue source), but aside from the meta CG needs to better balance the power of the items that we collect.

    Should a single Zeta be worth 4 G12 to G13 upgrades? I would argue no. Upgrading G12 to G13 is more valuable than CG currently rates it in terms of GP gain.

  • Liath
    4381 posts Member
    Liath wrote: »

    It says you collect heroes, which just a fact. That's a thing you do in the game. That doesn't make it a "collection based game" "at its core" or mean that the collection aspect is the "main objective." It certainly doesn't mean that you won't be penalized for making poor choices with your collection - various aspects of the game have always benefited players who made the correct choices over those who did not.

    So how do you play the game if you don't collect heroes? Why is this an argument, this is a collection based game. You can't play or improve anything if you don't first collect things.

    The part that is up for discussion is why is there a penalty for collecting the wrong things? Especially if a player is "free to choose" A forced meta is not exactly what I would call freedom. (I get they need to make money and a forced meta is a driving revenue source), but aside from the meta CG needs to better balance the power of the items that we collect.

    Should a single Zeta be worth 4 G12 to G13 upgrades? I would argue no. Upgrading G12 to G13 is more valuable than CG currently rates it in terms of GP gain.

    Being free to choose doesn't mean that there are no consequences for your choices.

    You can argue about the proper weighting of different aspects of GP all you want, but no matter how you weight zetas vs. g13 vs. whatever, making poor choices will have a negative impact on your gameplay. If zetas were worth a quarter of their current GP, placing your zetas on FBL and CWC and the like would still put you at a disadvantage relative to the people who chose the better zetas.
  • Liath wrote: »

    Being free to choose doesn't mean that there are no consequences for your choices.

    You can argue about the proper weighting of different aspects of GP all you want, but no matter how you weight zetas vs. g13 vs. whatever, making poor choices will have a negative impact on your gameplay. If zetas were worth a quarter of their current GP, placing your zetas on FBL and CWC and the like would still put you at a disadvantage relative to the people who chose the better zetas.

    I think this is where we can agree the Number of Zetas should be compared against only the number of Zetas (which zetas are better is debate we don't need to have). Having Zetas affect GP in the same manner as Gear is a flawed concept.

    There should be 3 and eventually maybe even 4 power measurements of an account. A new Zeta GP which is only calculated based on the number of Zetas that have been placed, Gear GP based solely on the number of gear pieces placed, Star Based GP, and eventually relic level based GP (although this may also just be thrown into the Gear GP calculation).

    Why try to shoehorn unrelated items into the same GP bucket when they can't be balanced that way?

  • Matchmaking is crap. I mean we have one opponent who has G13 Malak and G12 Geos team. There is no effective counter to them in our matchmaking participants. Noone other has even a G13 character, except me :D People have tough time to counter Geos. Why to do this ****.
  • Liath
    4381 posts Member
    Liath wrote: »

    Being free to choose doesn't mean that there are no consequences for your choices.

    You can argue about the proper weighting of different aspects of GP all you want, but no matter how you weight zetas vs. g13 vs. whatever, making poor choices will have a negative impact on your gameplay. If zetas were worth a quarter of their current GP, placing your zetas on FBL and CWC and the like would still put you at a disadvantage relative to the people who chose the better zetas.

    I think this is where we can agree the Number of Zetas should be compared against only the number of Zetas (which zetas are better is debate we don't need to have). Having Zetas affect GP in the same manner as Gear is a flawed concept.

    There should be 3 and eventually maybe even 4 power measurements of an account. A new Zeta GP which is only calculated based on the number of Zetas that have been placed, Gear GP based solely on the number of gear pieces placed, Star Based GP, and eventually relic level based GP (although this may also just be thrown into the Gear GP calculation).

    Why try to shoehorn unrelated items into the same GP bucket when they can't be balanced that way?

    I assume you mean for players to be matched on all of these criteria independently, but CG doesn't seem to consider that to be an option. They want one number to match people on. Maybe they think it's too complicated to program, I don't know. For example, I think TW matching should pair guilds that are close in both active GP and average active GP. But they seem unable or unwilling to do that. If they divided GP into 4 buckets, they would then weight them in some manner to come up with an overall number on which people could be matched, which would put us right back where we started. (Not sure where mods fit into your 4 categories.)
  • Liath wrote: »
    (Not sure where mods fit into your 4 categories.)

    Yes, good point there would also need to be a Mod GP bucket. After that you could match on the 4/5 different criteria independently.

  • No_Try
    3542 posts Member
    Liath wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »

    It says you collect heroes, which just a fact. That's a thing you do in the game. That doesn't make it a "collection based game" "at its core" or mean that the collection aspect is the "main objective." It certainly doesn't mean that you won't be penalized for making poor choices with your collection - various aspects of the game have always benefited players who made the correct choices over those who did not.

    So how do you play the game if you don't collect heroes? Why is this an argument, this is a collection based game. You can't play or improve anything if you don't first collect things.

    The part that is up for discussion is why is there a penalty for collecting the wrong things? Especially if a player is "free to choose" A forced meta is not exactly what I would call freedom. (I get they need to make money and a forced meta is a driving revenue source), but aside from the meta CG needs to better balance the power of the items that we collect.

    Should a single Zeta be worth 4 G12 to G13 upgrades? I would argue no. Upgrading G12 to G13 is more valuable than CG currently rates it in terms of GP gain.

    Being free to choose doesn't mean that there are no consequences for your choices.

    You can argue about the proper weighting of different aspects of GP all you want, but no matter how you weight zetas vs. g13 vs. whatever, making poor choices will have a negative impact on your gameplay. If zetas were worth a quarter of their current GP, placing your zetas on FBL and CWC and the like would still put you at a disadvantage relative to the people who chose the better zetas.

    C'mon, cwc+zeta is awesome xD. You wouldn't believe how many matches he won me on gac. Well, not by himself, that's another story.

    prfhqhgjx3qf.png
  • Gth
    277 posts Member
    Vicarious wrote: »
    I sure hope so. My matches have all been very lopsided.

    I seriously am considering walking away from the game. GAC isn’t fun for me whatsoever and I used to love GA. I loved GA because I had fair matches. By no means did I win all my GA matchups but at least they were all close instead of a completely one sided. I wouldn’t be complaining if I had gotten this opponent down the road if I continued to win matches but this was my very first opponent of this season. This has been my experience with every GAC to date.

    Atrocious GAC matchmaking is just one reason I am seriously considering walking away from SWGOH. Lack of content, lack of challenging content, g13, and now a new gear crunch in the disguise of Relics.

    I can’t believe CG would say matchmaking is working as intended. If these one sided matchups are indeed working as intended, then one can only conclude that the rigged matchmaking Patent EA has had indeed been applied to SWGOH.

    I and many others are in the same boat. Many are quitting, I’ve considered it. I held off to see if they would address it only to be totally let down by their recent response. I’m convinced they actually don’t play the game, they just look at their numbers.

    GAC should be about competing with equal competition.

    Gp is system they instituted and although not perfect, it’s the best way gauge players and set competition. Like you, I enjoyed GA. I didn’t win all, but I always felt that I could compete. I enjoyed competing with people at my level.

    I don’t feel that way with GAC. I’m usually the lowest gp in my bracket. The difference in gp i face is usually 300k-600k. I’m not on the same level as these players. It’s not fair competition and I get blown away usually. It’s not even close and it’s getting worse as the impact of g13 rears its ugly head. This last round, my opponent had 17 more g12 and 9 more g13 while having 300k more gp. But yet, gac mm says we’re dead even? Lol.

    Despite the feedback against it, they screwed up tw with those bonuses. Thankfully, they rolled that back.

    And despite the feedback, they’re keeping gac mm as is. It should be their #1 concern right now !

    CG, Fix some issues with how gp is calculated as the op stated and Go back to overall gp matchmaking. End the lopsided matching making.....

    At the very least, stop looking at your numbers. Do a satisfaction survey and break that survey down by gp brackets and listen to your majority.

    I was hoping things would be better with new leadership at cg, man was I wrong.

  • YetiYeti wrote: »
    It's like people here can't see what happened with the matchmaking. CG said Matchmaking was basically working as intended.

    They have designed the algorithm to allow Whales/Krakens/Mega-Krakens to buy the best possible advantages in Division 1.

    Wait for Relics... You're gunna be facing off against like 150 g13s with Relics, and you're gunna be rocking mostly G12s. This is as intended and they nerfed the rewards to put more pressure on you to spend to try to get into the zetas.

    This is all by design.

    That's the only thing DEVS should admit to stop all these countless "not fair match ups" threads )

    Just literally say "We do design GAC mode for spenders, so they spend more to easily beat opponents before final round... to spend even more to beat equal opponents at final round, get to Whatever-best-league-is-called to have satisfaction and zetas"
  • YetiYeti wrote: »
    It's like people here can't see what happened with the matchmaking. CG said Matchmaking was basically working as intended.

    They have designed the algorithm to allow Whales/Krakens/Mega-Krakens to buy the best possible advantages in Division 1.

    Wait for Relics... You're gunna be facing off against like 150 g13s with Relics, and you're gunna be rocking mostly G12s. This is as intended and they nerfed the rewards to put more pressure on you to spend to try to get into the zetas.

    This is all by design.

    Exactly this. If you lose you will either spend money, or you will quit. They don't care either way. We know this is the EA philosophy. The proof was found and exposed. There is no interest in fair match making. It just isn't going to happen.
  • Yup....

    G13 and 6• mods win matches plain and simple.

    Throw in g14 ... er........ I meant “Relics” and the Whales get even a bigger advantage.

    GAC has absolutely nothing to do with the “best” players, but who can outspend the other guy!

    It’s absolutely absurd!!
  • So those of you who agree matchmaking like the one in my original screenshot is fair.......

    You are telling us that the 20 Zetas I have over my opponent in my original screenshot is do to the fact that I “mismanaged” my resources?

    lo!

    You have that many zeta mats saved up? Well I guess you probably do because well, you are just so smart. Just so darn good at managing your resources. Lol

    Guess I should have been hoarding all 400 zeta mats for a rainy day. Or I should have hoarded those Zetas over the years because we all knew that one day GAC would come and Zetas would be counted against a player? You know, “managing” my resources.

    The same ignorant argument was made about “fluff” and we see what happened there.

    My opponent obviously has solely purchased his way to the top of his groupings in Division One. No resource management was required, just a cc. Now that players are pointing out the GAC matchmaking flaws, these players are spouting rhetoric because they are going to lose their purchased advantages if they fix this issue.

    We shall see if CG once again gives into the whales or not!
  • Vicarious wrote: »
    So those of you who agree matchmaking like the one in my original screenshot is fair.......

    You are telling us that the 20 Zetas I have over my opponent in my original screenshot is do to the fact that I “mismanaged” my resources?

    lo!

    You have that many zeta mats saved up? Well I guess you probably do because well, you are just so smart. Just so darn good at managing your resources. Lol

    Guess I should have been hoarding all 400 zeta mats for a rainy day. Or I should have hoarded those Zetas over the years because we all knew that one day GAC would come and Zetas would be counted against a player? You know, “managing” my resources.

    The same ignorant argument was made about “fluff” and we see what happened there.

    My opponent obviously has solely purchased his way to the top of his groupings in Division One. No resource management was required, just a cc. Now that players are pointing out the GAC matchmaking flaws, these players are spouting rhetoric because they are going to lose their purchased advantages if they fix this issue.

    We shall see if CG once again gives into the whales or not!

    At the very least I hope everyone can agree the rosters are not "similar".... Things will only get worse with relics... The power increase is huge and GP will not increase accordingly...
  • The problem, as the op is alluding to I think, is that matchmaking is based on GP, and GP tells us basically nothing about roster strength in practice. If g13, zeta'd Pao is equal to say g13 zeta'd b2, matchmaking is equal, yet very lopsided. There isn't really a better way to do it in this system. They refuse to have a traditional tournament event, and so it's always gonna be lopsided... by design. Don't like it? Spend money. That's the goal here. Your complaints are a waste of time.
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