Tbh most of these comments are super unrelated to OPs point and unhelpful and that’s why he is having to say the same thing over and over. These forums can be really unhelpful sometimes apart from direct questions which are hyper efficiently answered by a lot of helpful people.
I think the problem is in the game design. I think this was an unforeseen team that is unintended and actually super powerful in arena. The game balance is not in control and it’s not their intention to have undergeared teams beating top tier teams, but with a whole game of kits, the characters are what they are and certain unforeseen exploit type teams are bound to come up. I don’t think there’s much that can be done at this point and there’s no controlling the situation.
Also people are saying that other teams destroy this team and it’s a hard counter to DR, and I could be wrong but tbh, I’ve not really seen that. I went up against droid squads with my g12 jkr and padme lineups and got trashed. With ipd zeta you can’t get buffs, so no crit immunity and GG smacked all my toons in one. Ironically the only squad I beat it with was my g12 DR. That’s what I use against it now, haven’t tried many others. I don’t see how it’s a hard counter to DR. There’s nothing about dr that makes this a particular hard counter for that team, and it certainly wasn’t intended. It’s just a superpowered team that beats DR on offense. The lineup is superpowered against anyone. Huge hits from GG and you can’t target him so he will get more huge hits especially with the ai not targeting t3. The opening hit alone is like 90k aoe I think, and you get that every time they wipe out a droid. A couple of those will wipe out pretty much any team and you will always have the team going first doing its opening damage at the beginning.
Again it’s not intended it’s just a team that got thrown together because the kits meshed into something that works in an off brand haphazard way. I understand OP’s complaint and I do think it’s an accidental result of poor game design but there’s nothing that can be done to control it at this point.
How do you know it wasn't an intentional counter.
And it is quite easy to beat on defense if you know what you're doing.
I use ep, traya, sion, nihilas, and dark bastilla.
The team is tanky enough at g12 to rarely lose anyone if the enemy gg goes first and uses an aoe. Once I go, I have fear, an aoe dispel to remove the taunt, a mass stun to help control gg, isolate, and anhilate when I'm ready to kill gg. It's a pretty easy win against an r7 gg.
The strategy is pretty simple. Remove the taunts, keep fear, stun, isolate, and any other imobilizing debuffs on gg when possible. Play around with others while waiting for anhilate. Try not to kill anyof them but it's not required to win. Typically you can survive 3 or 4 aoes before you die. And nihilas gets stacking health for any debuffs on traya or sion so I've never had him taken out. And realistically you can have just nihilas survive. Annihilate gg and clean up on his own.
This post is adorable. DR mirror matches are decided by who has the fastest BSF. Essentially, OP wants arena determined purely on luck.
In full disclosure as I have a nuke team and malak team, I will say that they have similar investments.
Luke’s quote once again applies. Everything you just said was wrong. DR matches, if you have Marauder, depend a lot more on the fastest DR than the fastest Bastila. I have the fastest DR in my shard. I can auto any other DR squad, even one with a faster Bastila. Even if you don’t run Marauder, fastest Bastila doesn’t necessarily determine who wins.
OP wants arena determined by who can gear and mod their squads competitively.
GG nuke team works with a single zeta G13 GG (hopefully with some relics), G12 T3 with two zetas and G11 IG, BB-8 and either IPD or R2. Sith Empire teams typically require triple zeta DR, double zeta Malak and usually zetas on HK and Bastila. The entire team needs G13 or at least G12. Not to mention the larger investment to acquire the toons to begin with. No, the investments are not similar. Not even close.
For those that don't like the gg nuke team, it won't last long once the meta shifts. It requires the opponent to have lowered defense from ferocity to work.
This is not true. They land enough debuffs on their own to equal ferocity. Ferocity just replaces their debuffs as they drop off. This team will beat any team without tm on damage or some high tenacity schtick.
Do you really think the next meta won't have ridiculously high defense or tenacity or something that makes them also counter gg as well as darth revan?
It's not just that ferocity is a debuff that makes darth revan vulnerable. Ferocity turns your defense into offense, making that team particularly vulnerable.
I never said that any team could win. But there are plenty of ways already to control gg even at relic 7 with g12 toons alone. Stun, fracture, tenacity up, protection up, just to name a few.
I run ep lead with triumvirate against it in arena and gg usually gets at least one aoe off but unlike the darth revan most of my team survives and can control the team long enough to annhilate him fairly easily.
A bastilla lead works too because the protection up allows you to take enough hits to survive him.
There are already too many ways to counter him out to have him be arena viable in a non darth revan arena.
Who was predicting what the next META will have? Certainly not I. I was merely correcting an erroneous statement that GG nuke works because of Ferocity... it does not.
Ferocity lowers the defense of the sith empire characters. This plays a role in them being one shot by his aoe. I have run teams that don't use ferocity and they typically survive a few attacks and all you have to do is kill gg and the battle is won.
Look the only time Sith Empire actually has any defense whatsoever against the GG nuke team that can be affected by ferocity is when Darth Malak is below 50% health, and then it's only him, and only marginal.
It literally makes no difference to the GG nuke team. They have removed all the SE's defense before ferocity comes into play in between their own defense pen, the defense pen they get from T3, and defense down from 88.
Ferocity was the idea behind the original idea for the nuke team, but the evolved nuke team could really kind of care less about it.
Nothing in gg kit lowers defense for the gg nuke team. His leadership lowers it by 50% but gg isn't in the lead for the nuke team.
Ferocity lowers se defense by 15% per stack. So it does come into play.
Look I've done the math. First 88 cuts everyone's defense in half. Then T3 gives everyone massive defense pen which when combined with their own has a greater total than the defense the sith empire have left.
This isn't supposition. This is why they say T3's 2nd zeta and the g12 Stun Gun are mandatory for the comp to work.
Sorry but you're wrong. Ferocity can't lower their defense past 0%. it doesn't help like that. Nor is it even necessary.
I'm assuming you're referring to the defense down that ig has a 50% chance to land. Since ferocity also lowers tenacity by 15% per stack, it plays a role on whether the defense down lands. If it does, you are correct, that the defense can go to zero where ferocity doesn't matter for dmg.
But it does raise the chance of the debuff landing in the first place and it lowers defense in the case that the defense down is resisted, which from the kit it is resisted quite often. It only has a 50% chance on getting past the first test. Then it has a 15% chance of being resisted even with high potency so a 42% chance to land if you have 100% more potency than your opponent has tenacity and less if you have low potency or they have high tenacity.
But against teams tgat don't have ferocity and have some decent tenacity (either naturally or through mods) the defence dow is going to land on one or two characters on average. On a sith empire team it'll still be 3 or so but they all effectively give themselves 75% defense down whether it lands or not. That's enough to make one shotting them easy.
Actually the AoE that lands the defense down will be used before anyone has ferocity on the SE side. Also 85% is the maximum debuff rate, and that can be reached by having 15% less potency than your opponent has tenacity. Well modded Nuke teams have 100% potency, so teams with 115% tenacity or more will have a chance of getting more than minimum resists on debuffs. Really ferocity doesn't help debuffs land for the nuke team either.
I take first in arena with GG Nuke every day. Yesterday I defeated a Reliced Padme team with it to take first.
For IG to land the debuff it goes through 3 tests.
First it only has a 50% chance to try per his kit. Most newer kits skip this one and have 100% chance to try.
Second it has to get through the 15% resist chance.
Then if it gets that far, it does the tenacity/potency check. Basically tenacity minus potency equals chance to land with thos test.
Ferocity does play a role in that last test if it's on a character.
And as for your second point, padme teams aren't that great on defense. I beat them when I see them easily as well. All it takes is thrawn fracturing padme and the team falls apart.
And my original point wasn't that darth revan was the only team that gg nuke could beat on offense only that when the meta shifts and there are less darth revan teams to prey on, there will be less gg nuke teams since they work particularly well vs darth revan and not much better than other teams vs other teams. And they don't hold on defense all that well as it is. Or at least it's easy for me to send in a three meta ago team with only fair mods and mostly g12 and have a nearly 100% win rate.
I never said it wasn't viable to climb just that it'll likely not be a counter for the next meta. Though I'll admit my experience is mostly with the team on defense and yours appears to be on offense. That could make the difference.
My only point is that ferocity doesn't make or break that team, it's viable all on its own outside very high tenacity teams or ones with tm on damage effects.
That's what I said to begin with, everything else was in support of that.
It's a really good team that can beat a lot of teams outside of its few weaknesses. Lots of cleanse is another weakness, but if the team is weak they'll die even with lots of cleanse.
Tbh most of these comments are super unrelated to OPs point and unhelpful and that’s why he is having to say the same thing over and over.
People disagreeing that anything needs to be done /= unrelated comments
Either that or it's trolling. Because the op posts a "wah, I don't like this team post," we should all just echo it and demand a nerf.
The comments are unrelated because a bunch of you are using a straw man. My original point (which has been repeated many times now) was that people shouldn’t be able to climb with crappy mods and mostly G11 toons on their squad. Seriously, go back and read the first line of the original post. I would have no problem with this team if it required G12/13 on all the toons and maybe at least one competitive speed set. My problem is not that I can’t beat this team (I can) or that I fall out of the Top 20 now (I don’t) or whatever other made up nonsense you want to ascribe to me. My words have been very clear that my issue with this team is that it allows people to climb to top ranks with purple gear on three toons and without mods that would normally be required to be competitive.
Tbh most of these comments are super unrelated to OPs point and unhelpful and that’s why he is having to say the same thing over and over.
People disagreeing that anything needs to be done /= unrelated comments
OPs point is that undergeared toons shouldn’t be beating fully relicd teams. Kind of a fair point tbh. I’ve seen some comments addressing it like those saying you do need good gear (IMO you don’t) but most are just unrelated to what he’s saying tbh, hence why he has literally had to repeat his point about 50 times.
And a fair few people just sound kinda **** that hes complaining about a team they use to climb.
I definitely don’t think they should actively do something about this, it’s far too late to redesign all their kits, but there is a point about game balance here when a mish mash group of random characters are basing a team around one OP ability/huge damage character and beating the best team in the game fully relicd
Running this squad properly requires significant investment in characters that wouldn't otherwise warrant it, and requires specific modding as well.
But here we are.
Except that is false. The only toon it requires an investment in that wouldn’t otherwise be useful is T3. Hell, I’ve seen people running this in the Top 10 with G11 BB-8 with no zetas. So it doesn’t even require you invest much in the toons that ARE otherwise useful. It requires specific modding? So what? It doesn’t require mods that are hard to acquire or special in any way. Most people probably had the necessary mods sitting unequipped already.
Running this squad properly requires significant investment in characters that wouldn't otherwise warrant it, and requires specific modding as well.
But here we are.
Except that is false. The only toon it requires an investment in that wouldn’t otherwise be useful is T3. Hell, I’ve seen people running this in the Top 10 with G11 BB-8 with no zetas. So it doesn’t even require you invest much in the toons that ARE otherwise useful. It requires specific modding? So what? It doesn’t require mods that are hard to acquire or special in any way. Most people probably had the necessary mods sitting unequipped already.
I'm still waiting for the 8,000 people in my shard storming their way to first every day because this is so easy.
Running this squad properly requires significant investment in characters that wouldn't otherwise warrant it, and requires specific modding as well.
But here we are.
Except that is false. The only toon it requires an investment in that wouldn’t otherwise be useful is T3. Hell, I’ve seen people running this in the Top 10 with G11 BB-8 with no zetas. So it doesn’t even require you invest much in the toons that ARE otherwise useful. It requires specific modding? So what? It doesn’t require mods that are hard to acquire or special in any way. Most people probably had the necessary mods sitting unequipped already.
I'm still waiting for the 8,000 people in my shard storming their way to first every day because this is so easy.
I mean it’s pretty easy. You need 1 relicd char and 2 zetas (not including GGs)
If it was such nonsense that GG can take 1, why are so few people running it? And therefore, why does it even matter? If you aren't falling outside the top 20, who cares? How does it affect you in the slightest?
If it was such nonsense that GG can take 1, why are so few people running it? And therefore, why does it even matter? If you aren't falling outside the top 20, who cares? How does it affect you in the slightest?
I can only guess why it isn’t used so much. My guess would be that most serious players (and on old shards the people still there are serious) have DR and have invested into DR and so don’t see any point in investing in something else. Also that most players are not interested in climbing to 1st and taking payout.
Also your shard /= everyone’s shard so OP might have more of a problem than others. I can only take him at his word that there are some people on his shard with 2 mil GP climbing to 1st. And he probly feels that is a bit of a violation, given the effort he has put in.
As for me, it doesn’t bother me at all. I mean I use it to climb when I couldn’t otherwise so I can’t complain really. And like I said I don’t think anything should be done about it. But it is a bit concerning about the state of the game when they lose control of game balance and unintentional teams (cheese teams at that) are popping up and that is what happened in my eyes.
If it was such nonsense that GG can take 1, why are so few people running it? And therefore, why does it even matter? If you aren't falling outside the top 20, who cares? How does it affect you in the slightest?
It affects me because I am one of the people who has put in the investment to routinely finish at the top. Those people who built their rosters, geared their toons and farmed competitive mods find that investment de-valued when someone with 2 or 3 million less GP can gear two toons, put on crap mods and climb to the top.
I don’t know how many of these squads you are seeing. Frankly, if I see one squad with three G11 toons in the Top 5, that’s too many. As it is, I’m seeing several each day and as many as a dozen or more reaching Top 15-20. I find it insulting to see those squads next to SE and Padme squads that are full g13 with relic investments on each toon.
If it was such nonsense that GG can take 1, why are so few people running it? And therefore, why does it even matter? If you aren't falling outside the top 20, who cares? How does it affect you in the slightest?
It affects me because I am one of the people who has put in the investment to routinely finish at the top. Those people who built their rosters, geared their toons and farmed competitive mods find that investment de-valued when someone with 2 or 3 million less GP can gear two toons, put on crap mods and climb to the top.
I don’t know how many of these squads you are seeing. Frankly, if I see one squad with three G11 toons in the Top 5, that’s too many. As it is, I’m seeing several each day and as many as a dozen or more reaching Top 15-20. I find it insulting to see those squads next to SE and Padme squads that are full g13 with relic investments on each toon.
Didn't you say you don't fall out of the top 20?
If I'm remember that correctly, it doesn't affect you in the slightest.
If it was such nonsense that GG can take 1, why are so few people running it? And therefore, why does it even matter? If you aren't falling outside the top 20, who cares? How does it affect you in the slightest?
It affects me because I am one of the people who has put in the investment to routinely finish at the top. Those people who built their rosters, geared their toons and farmed competitive mods find that investment de-valued when someone with 2 or 3 million less GP can gear two toons, put on crap mods and climb to the top.
I don’t know how many of these squads you are seeing. Frankly, if I see one squad with three G11 toons in the Top 5, that’s too many. As it is, I’m seeing several each day and as many as a dozen or more reaching Top 15-20. I find it insulting to see those squads next to SE and Padme squads that are full g13 with relic investments on each toon.
Didn't you say you don't fall out of the top 20?
If I'm remember that correctly, it doesn't affect you in the slightest.
I just explained how it affects me. You chose to ignore my comment so you could keep being CG’s brave white knight. Hey, I think a I saw someone complain about the devs in the raid channel. You should definitely go over and slay that mean dragon.
There is zero tangible affect on you. You've just chosen to act like there is. No one has touched your investment. You still get the same crystals every day for the same effort.
Might as well complain about spenders while you're at it. By your logic I can build my roster through hard work (resource management) and it's not fair that someone else can spend their way to an equal roster and "invalidate" my investment.
There is zero tangible affect on you. You've just chosen to act like there is. No one has touched your investment. You still get the same crystals every day for the same effort.
Might as well complain about spenders while you're at it. By your logic I can build my roster through hard work (resource management) and it's not fair that someone else can spend their way to an equal roster and "invalidate" my investment.
Where did I ever complain about people spending? In fact, I’m pretty sure I expressly said at least once in this thread that spending was an alternative to putting in the work through resource management. Either put in the work or spend the money to subsidize everyone else’s enjoyment of the game.
When someone else gets the same benefits as others without putting in the requisite time or money, it absolutely devalues everyone else’s investment. What motivation do whales have to keep spending if someone who never spends and doesn’t put in the effort to farm gear and mods can still reach top of the arena because of a cheese team that lets them use three G11 toons against full relic squads?
Honestly, you are only still arguing because you don’t want to admit you are wrong. There is no legitimate case to make that we should be seeing squads with three G11 toons in the Top 10 of arena.
Honestly, you are only still arguing because you don’t want to admit you are wrong. There is no legitimate case to make that we should be seeing squads with three G11 toons in the Top 10 of arena.
Three quick points :
1) Rock, paper, scissors. Sorry your shiny scissors cost more than the GG-R7 rock.
2) Just because you're the only one still talking doesn't mean everyone (ir anyone, for that matter) agrees with you. It could just indicate that people are tired of arguing with you because you're convinced you're right.
3) Metas change. Money/investment gives you a short term advantage. That time is up.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Honestly, you are only still arguing because you don’t want to admit you are wrong. There is no legitimate case to make that we should be seeing squads with three G11 toons in the Top 10 of arena.
Three quick points :
1) Rock, paper, scissors. Sorry your shiny scissors cost more than the GG-R7 rock.
2) Just because you're the only one still talking doesn't mean everyone (ir anyone, for that matter) agrees with you. It could just indicate that people are tired of arguing with you because you're convinced you're right.
3) Metas change. Money/investment gives you a short term advantage. That time is up.
1) I have the rock and paper too, and they are also better geared and modded.
2) I never said anyone agreed with me. But I will point out that I’ve still not seen anyone actually argue against my original point, which I’ve had to repeat ad nauseam because people like you keep trying to replace it with straw men like “scissors mad that it gets beat by rock.” Squads with three G11 toons don’t belong at the top of arena. Still waiting for someone to argue it is good or healthy for the game or whatever. People have argued diversity is good (I agree, but that’s not my point), that the GG team doesn’t work with G11 (false, only GG and T3 need G12 or 13) and a variety of other things that are entirely beside the point of my original post.
3) It gives you an advantage for the long term, not just the short term. I can move my mods to whatever the new meta happens to be. And I’m more prepared to acquire the new meta first time around because I gear my toons. Which is why you generally see the same people in the top 10 month after month.
Honestly, you are only still arguing because you don’t want to admit you are wrong. There is no legitimate case to make that we should be seeing squads with three G11 toons in the Top 10 of arena.
Three quick points :
1) Rock, paper, scissors. Sorry your shiny scissors cost more than the GG-R7 rock.
2) Just because you're the only one still talking doesn't mean everyone (ir anyone, for that matter) agrees with you. It could just indicate that people are tired of arguing with you because you're convinced you're right.
3) Metas change. Money/investment gives you a short term advantage. That time is up.
1) I have the rock and paper too, and they are also better geared and modded.
2) I never said anyone agreed with me. But I will point out that I’ve still not seen anyone actually argue against my original point, which I’ve had to repeat ad nauseam because people like you keep trying to replace it with straw men like “scissors mad that it gets beat by rock.” Squads with three G11 toons don’t belong at the top of arena. Still waiting for someone to argue it is good or healthy for the game or whatever. People have argued diversity is good (I agree, but that’s not my point), that the GG team doesn’t work with G11 (false, only GG and T3 need G12 or 13) and a variety of other things that are entirely beside the point of my original post.
3) It gives you an advantage for the long term, not just the short term. I can move my mods to whatever the new meta happens to be. And I’m more prepared to acquire the new meta first time around because I gear my toons. Which is why you generally see the same people in the top 10 month after month.
Point 1 - the fact that you have them is irrelevant. Nothing holds on defense. Never has. That's by design.
People have argued point 2 - you just seem to think you get to decide what teams (and at what gear/mod levels) "belong" at the top of arena. Malak was at the top when he was 5 stars and indergeared too....but you probably had him, so weren't complaining. Sorry, you're not the sole arbiter of who "belongs" at the top of arena or for how long. Incidentally, look at the top of your fleet shard. I'm guessing you'll see many 5 star Negotiators - possibly with under-starred Ani along side.
On point 3, you are simply mistaken. I've been playing since launch. Money has always only bought a temporary advantage. I'm not sure when you started playing, but you joined the forums 2 years after me, so the fact that you're newer explains why you don't fully understand that yet.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
It doesn’t require mods that are hard to acquire or special in any way. Most people probably had the necessary mods sitting unequipped already.
This is simply not true. The mods it requires to work well enough to take down reliced teams are NOT easy to acquire. They aren't easy to get and people didn't collect those types of mods before so they didn't have them laying around either. It took me a couple of months to farm up the right mods to be able to use the team effectively.
They only seem like crap mods because they don't require the stats that people usually think of as good. Except when reaching the pinnacle of proper modding and then it requires some pretty hefty speed secondaries.
I can guarantee that people who haven't already put effort into farming these weird types of mods for raiding or didn't put effort into farming mods for this team aren't beating reliced SE teams with mostly purple toons.
Well, if the mods on those SE teams are horrible I suppose. Mod farming is important for top places. Those SE teams should step up their game if they're getting beat by mostly purple teams. They are the ones whose mods say they shouldn't be in the top ranks.
Honestly, you are only still arguing because you don’t want to admit you are wrong. There is no legitimate case to make that we should be seeing squads with three G11 toons in the Top 10 of arena.
Three quick points :
1) Rock, paper, scissors. Sorry your shiny scissors cost more than the GG-R7 rock.
2) Just because you're the only one still talking doesn't mean everyone (ir anyone, for that matter) agrees with you. It could just indicate that people are tired of arguing with you because you're convinced you're right.
3) Metas change. Money/investment gives you a short term advantage. That time is up.
1) I have the rock and paper too, and they are also better geared and modded.
2) I never said anyone agreed with me. But I will point out that I’ve still not seen anyone actually argue against my original point, which I’ve had to repeat ad nauseam because people like you keep trying to replace it with straw men like “scissors mad that it gets beat by rock.” Squads with three G11 toons don’t belong at the top of arena. Still waiting for someone to argue it is good or healthy for the game or whatever. People have argued diversity is good (I agree, but that’s not my point), that the GG team doesn’t work with G11 (false, only GG and T3 need G12 or 13) and a variety of other things that are entirely beside the point of my original post.
3) It gives you an advantage for the long term, not just the short term. I can move my mods to whatever the new meta happens to be. And I’m more prepared to acquire the new meta first time around because I gear my toons. Which is why you generally see the same people in the top 10 month after month.
Point 1 - the fact that you have them is irrelevant. Nothing holds on defense. Never has. That's by design.
People have argued point 2 - you just seem to think you get to decide what teams (and at what gear/mod levels) "belong" at the top of arena. Malak was at the top when he was 5 stars and indergeared too....but you probably had him, so weren't complaining. Sorry, you're not the sole arbiter of who "belongs" at the top of arena or for how long. Incidentally, look at the top of your fleet shard. I'm guessing you'll see many 5 star Negotiators - possibly with under-starred Ani along side.
On point 3, you are simply mistaken. I've been playing since launch. Money has always only bought a temporary advantage. I'm not sure when you started playing, but you joined the forums 2 years after me, so the fact that you're newer explains why you don't fully understand that yet.
1) Nothing holds on defense? I went over a month without falling out of the Top 10 with my DR squad. I’d guess that during the three months before relics, I fell into the mid teens two or three times. I still haven’t fallen out of the Top 20 since Malak was released. Maybe some things do hold on defense for a while.
2) What we have here is a math problem. One toon G11 is not the issue. Three or more G11 toons is the issue. People with G11 Malaks had G12 on every other toon, plus they had competitive mods on all their toons. Again, please explain to me how it’s good for the game or the competitive balance to have a squad with three G11 toons with leftover mods capable of hitting top spots in arena against G13 full relic meta squads.
3) I’ve been playing since a little after launch. I didn’t join the forums until later. I’ve averaged first in arena for over three years now. I’ve done so primarily because I religiously farmed speed mods. Gearing any particular meta will only ever give you a temporary advantage. But proper resource management and smart farming strategies for toons, gear and mods absolutely gives you a long term advantage. When the next meta comes around, I will get it quickly and will move my best mods over and stay at the top of arena. So will the other good players in the shard. I’m not going to speculate as to why you don’t understand that.
It doesn’t require mods that are hard to acquire or special in any way. Most people probably had the necessary mods sitting unequipped already.
This is simply not true. The mods it requires to work well enough to take down reliced teams are NOT easy to acquire. They aren't easy to get and people didn't collect those types of mods before so they didn't have them laying around either. It took me a couple of months to farm up the right mods to be able to use the team effectively.
They only seem like crap mods because they don't require the stats that people usually think of as good. Except when reaching the pinnacle of proper modding and then it requires some pretty hefty speed secondaries.
I can guarantee that people who haven't already put effort into farming these weird types of mods for raiding or didn't put effort into farming mods for this team aren't beating reliced SE teams with mostly purple toons.
Well, if the mods on those SE teams are horrible I suppose. Mod farming is important for top places. Those SE teams should step up their game if they're getting beat by mostly purple teams. They are the ones whose mods say they shouldn't be in the top ranks.
Anyone who has been paying attention even a little bit has been saving high health mods, high offense mods and mods with high potency. Since very few other toons need those mods (except maybe the offense mods), there should be plenty lying around in your inventory unless you just negligently get rid of any mod that doesn’t have speed on it.
Yes, you can beat an SE squad with top end mods if you have an R7 GG with even remotely decent health mods. You can easily do so with G11 IG-88, IPD and BB-8.
It doesn’t require mods that are hard to acquire or special in any way. Most people probably had the necessary mods sitting unequipped already.
This is simply not true. The mods it requires to work well enough to take down reliced teams are NOT easy to acquire. They aren't easy to get and people didn't collect those types of mods before so they didn't have them laying around either. It took me a couple of months to farm up the right mods to be able to use the team effectively.
They only seem like crap mods because they don't require the stats that people usually think of as good. Except when reaching the pinnacle of proper modding and then it requires some pretty hefty speed secondaries.
I can guarantee that people who haven't already put effort into farming these weird types of mods for raiding or didn't put effort into farming mods for this team aren't beating reliced SE teams with mostly purple toons.
Well, if the mods on those SE teams are horrible I suppose. Mod farming is important for top places. Those SE teams should step up their game if they're getting beat by mostly purple teams. They are the ones whose mods say they shouldn't be in the top ranks.
Anyone who has been paying attention even a little bit has been saving high health mods, high offense mods and mods with high potency. Since very few other toons need those mods (except maybe the offense mods), there should be plenty lying around in your inventory unless you just negligently get rid of any mod that doesn’t have speed on it.
Yes, you can beat an SE squad with top end mods if you have an R7 GG with even remotely decent health mods. You can easily do so with G11 IG-88, IPD and BB-8.
It's not as simple as that you need about 80 speed, 40 cc and 60 potency for all of them in order to reliably beat anyone and to beat well modded relic teams at all. People don't have mods with all of those stats laying around. Don't need offense mods at all, the other stuff is hard enough to get right. Most people don't. That's why I hear people in my shard running Nuke teams with no purple characters complaining about being unable to beat full reliced well modded sith teams.
If people with mostly purple toons are beating full reliced SE teams it means 2 things are true:
1. That droid team has amazing mods that were very hard to come by
2. That SE team has crap mods and "shouldn't be in the top 50".
I couldn't even hit all my targets until I had T3 and 88 practically g13.
Replies
How do you know it wasn't an intentional counter.
And it is quite easy to beat on defense if you know what you're doing.
I use ep, traya, sion, nihilas, and dark bastilla.
The team is tanky enough at g12 to rarely lose anyone if the enemy gg goes first and uses an aoe. Once I go, I have fear, an aoe dispel to remove the taunt, a mass stun to help control gg, isolate, and anhilate when I'm ready to kill gg. It's a pretty easy win against an r7 gg.
The strategy is pretty simple. Remove the taunts, keep fear, stun, isolate, and any other imobilizing debuffs on gg when possible. Play around with others while waiting for anhilate. Try not to kill anyof them but it's not required to win. Typically you can survive 3 or 4 aoes before you die. And nihilas gets stacking health for any debuffs on traya or sion so I've never had him taken out. And realistically you can have just nihilas survive. Annihilate gg and clean up on his own.
People disagreeing that anything needs to be done /= unrelated comments
Either that or it's trolling. Because the op posts a "wah, I don't like this team post," we should all just echo it and demand a nerf.
Luke’s quote once again applies. Everything you just said was wrong. DR matches, if you have Marauder, depend a lot more on the fastest DR than the fastest Bastila. I have the fastest DR in my shard. I can auto any other DR squad, even one with a faster Bastila. Even if you don’t run Marauder, fastest Bastila doesn’t necessarily determine who wins.
OP wants arena determined by who can gear and mod their squads competitively.
GG nuke team works with a single zeta G13 GG (hopefully with some relics), G12 T3 with two zetas and G11 IG, BB-8 and either IPD or R2. Sith Empire teams typically require triple zeta DR, double zeta Malak and usually zetas on HK and Bastila. The entire team needs G13 or at least G12. Not to mention the larger investment to acquire the toons to begin with. No, the investments are not similar. Not even close.
My only point is that ferocity doesn't make or break that team, it's viable all on its own outside very high tenacity teams or ones with tm on damage effects.
That's what I said to begin with, everything else was in support of that.
It's a really good team that can beat a lot of teams outside of its few weaknesses. Lots of cleanse is another weakness, but if the team is weak they'll die even with lots of cleanse.
The comments are unrelated because a bunch of you are using a straw man. My original point (which has been repeated many times now) was that people shouldn’t be able to climb with crappy mods and mostly G11 toons on their squad. Seriously, go back and read the first line of the original post. I would have no problem with this team if it required G12/13 on all the toons and maybe at least one competitive speed set. My problem is not that I can’t beat this team (I can) or that I fall out of the Top 20 now (I don’t) or whatever other made up nonsense you want to ascribe to me. My words have been very clear that my issue with this team is that it allows people to climb to top ranks with purple gear on three toons and without mods that would normally be required to be competitive.
But here we are.
OPs point is that undergeared toons shouldn’t be beating fully relicd teams. Kind of a fair point tbh. I’ve seen some comments addressing it like those saying you do need good gear (IMO you don’t) but most are just unrelated to what he’s saying tbh, hence why he has literally had to repeat his point about 50 times.
And a fair few people just sound kinda **** that hes complaining about a team they use to climb.
I definitely don’t think they should actively do something about this, it’s far too late to redesign all their kits, but there is a point about game balance here when a mish mash group of random characters are basing a team around one OP ability/huge damage character and beating the best team in the game fully relicd
Except that is false. The only toon it requires an investment in that wouldn’t otherwise be useful is T3. Hell, I’ve seen people running this in the Top 10 with G11 BB-8 with no zetas. So it doesn’t even require you invest much in the toons that ARE otherwise useful. It requires specific modding? So what? It doesn’t require mods that are hard to acquire or special in any way. Most people probably had the necessary mods sitting unequipped already.
I'm still waiting for the 8,000 people in my shard storming their way to first every day because this is so easy.
I mean it’s pretty easy. You need 1 relicd char and 2 zetas (not including GGs)
If it was such nonsense that GG can take 1, why are so few people running it? And therefore, why does it even matter? If you aren't falling outside the top 20, who cares? How does it affect you in the slightest?
I can only guess why it isn’t used so much. My guess would be that most serious players (and on old shards the people still there are serious) have DR and have invested into DR and so don’t see any point in investing in something else. Also that most players are not interested in climbing to 1st and taking payout.
Also your shard /= everyone’s shard
As for me, it doesn’t bother me at all. I mean I use it to climb when I couldn’t otherwise so I can’t complain really. And like I said I don’t think anything should be done about it. But it is a bit concerning about the state of the game when they lose control of game balance and unintentional teams (cheese teams at that) are popping up and that is what happened in my eyes.
It affects me because I am one of the people who has put in the investment to routinely finish at the top. Those people who built their rosters, geared their toons and farmed competitive mods find that investment de-valued when someone with 2 or 3 million less GP can gear two toons, put on crap mods and climb to the top.
I don’t know how many of these squads you are seeing. Frankly, if I see one squad with three G11 toons in the Top 5, that’s too many. As it is, I’m seeing several each day and as many as a dozen or more reaching Top 15-20. I find it insulting to see those squads next to SE and Padme squads that are full g13 with relic investments on each toon.
Didn't you say you don't fall out of the top 20?
If I'm remember that correctly, it doesn't affect you in the slightest.
I just explained how it affects me. You chose to ignore my comment so you could keep being CG’s brave white knight. Hey, I think a I saw someone complain about the devs in the raid channel. You should definitely go over and slay that mean dragon.
Might as well complain about spenders while you're at it. By your logic I can build my roster through hard work (resource management) and it's not fair that someone else can spend their way to an equal roster and "invalidate" my investment.
Where did I ever complain about people spending? In fact, I’m pretty sure I expressly said at least once in this thread that spending was an alternative to putting in the work through resource management. Either put in the work or spend the money to subsidize everyone else’s enjoyment of the game.
When someone else gets the same benefits as others without putting in the requisite time or money, it absolutely devalues everyone else’s investment. What motivation do whales have to keep spending if someone who never spends and doesn’t put in the effort to farm gear and mods can still reach top of the arena because of a cheese team that lets them use three G11 toons against full relic squads?
Three quick points :
1) Rock, paper, scissors. Sorry your shiny scissors cost more than the GG-R7 rock.
2) Just because you're the only one still talking doesn't mean everyone (ir anyone, for that matter) agrees with you. It could just indicate that people are tired of arguing with you because you're convinced you're right.
3) Metas change. Money/investment gives you a short term advantage. That time is up.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
That’s rich considering you have repeatedly ignored my posts and constructed ridiculous straw men in their stead.
1) I have the rock and paper too, and they are also better geared and modded.
2) I never said anyone agreed with me. But I will point out that I’ve still not seen anyone actually argue against my original point, which I’ve had to repeat ad nauseam because people like you keep trying to replace it with straw men like “scissors mad that it gets beat by rock.” Squads with three G11 toons don’t belong at the top of arena. Still waiting for someone to argue it is good or healthy for the game or whatever. People have argued diversity is good (I agree, but that’s not my point), that the GG team doesn’t work with G11 (false, only GG and T3 need G12 or 13) and a variety of other things that are entirely beside the point of my original post.
3) It gives you an advantage for the long term, not just the short term. I can move my mods to whatever the new meta happens to be. And I’m more prepared to acquire the new meta first time around because I gear my toons. Which is why you generally see the same people in the top 10 month after month.
Point 1 - the fact that you have them is irrelevant. Nothing holds on defense. Never has. That's by design.
People have argued point 2 - you just seem to think you get to decide what teams (and at what gear/mod levels) "belong" at the top of arena. Malak was at the top when he was 5 stars and indergeared too....but you probably had him, so weren't complaining. Sorry, you're not the sole arbiter of who "belongs" at the top of arena or for how long. Incidentally, look at the top of your fleet shard. I'm guessing you'll see many 5 star Negotiators - possibly with under-starred Ani along side.
On point 3, you are simply mistaken. I've been playing since launch. Money has always only bought a temporary advantage. I'm not sure when you started playing, but you joined the forums 2 years after me, so the fact that you're newer explains why you don't fully understand that yet.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
This is simply not true. The mods it requires to work well enough to take down reliced teams are NOT easy to acquire. They aren't easy to get and people didn't collect those types of mods before so they didn't have them laying around either. It took me a couple of months to farm up the right mods to be able to use the team effectively.
They only seem like crap mods because they don't require the stats that people usually think of as good. Except when reaching the pinnacle of proper modding and then it requires some pretty hefty speed secondaries.
I can guarantee that people who haven't already put effort into farming these weird types of mods for raiding or didn't put effort into farming mods for this team aren't beating reliced SE teams with mostly purple toons.
Well, if the mods on those SE teams are horrible I suppose. Mod farming is important for top places. Those SE teams should step up their game if they're getting beat by mostly purple teams. They are the ones whose mods say they shouldn't be in the top ranks.
I see no problem here
1) Nothing holds on defense? I went over a month without falling out of the Top 10 with my DR squad. I’d guess that during the three months before relics, I fell into the mid teens two or three times. I still haven’t fallen out of the Top 20 since Malak was released. Maybe some things do hold on defense for a while.
2) What we have here is a math problem. One toon G11 is not the issue. Three or more G11 toons is the issue. People with G11 Malaks had G12 on every other toon, plus they had competitive mods on all their toons. Again, please explain to me how it’s good for the game or the competitive balance to have a squad with three G11 toons with leftover mods capable of hitting top spots in arena against G13 full relic meta squads.
3) I’ve been playing since a little after launch. I didn’t join the forums until later. I’ve averaged first in arena for over three years now. I’ve done so primarily because I religiously farmed speed mods. Gearing any particular meta will only ever give you a temporary advantage. But proper resource management and smart farming strategies for toons, gear and mods absolutely gives you a long term advantage. When the next meta comes around, I will get it quickly and will move my best mods over and stay at the top of arena. So will the other good players in the shard. I’m not going to speculate as to why you don’t understand that.
Anyone who has been paying attention even a little bit has been saving high health mods, high offense mods and mods with high potency. Since very few other toons need those mods (except maybe the offense mods), there should be plenty lying around in your inventory unless you just negligently get rid of any mod that doesn’t have speed on it.
Yes, you can beat an SE squad with top end mods if you have an R7 GG with even remotely decent health mods. You can easily do so with G11 IG-88, IPD and BB-8.
It's not as simple as that you need about 80 speed, 40 cc and 60 potency for all of them in order to reliably beat anyone and to beat well modded relic teams at all. People don't have mods with all of those stats laying around. Don't need offense mods at all, the other stuff is hard enough to get right. Most people don't. That's why I hear people in my shard running Nuke teams with no purple characters complaining about being unable to beat full reliced well modded sith teams.
If people with mostly purple toons are beating full reliced SE teams it means 2 things are true:
1. That droid team has amazing mods that were very hard to come by
2. That SE team has crap mods and "shouldn't be in the top 50".
I couldn't even hit all my targets until I had T3 and 88 practically g13.