I'm not sure if simply matching guilds based on the amount of participants would solve the issue.
I would assume that guilds who intentionally sandbag will just bring in low GP alts to influence matchmaking in their favour.
What about guilds with just 46 members. Are they forced to leave TW because they would be sandbagging even when all would join?
I see so much trolling in here
There's an easy fix where the matchmaking first starts trying to pair with equal members signed up and then slowly increases the delta until all matches are filled. Would eliminate much of the sandbagging, whether it is intentional or not.
We faced a guild that only had 40 members this TW and their average arena rank was in the 30s and average fleet rank was in the single digits. Needless to say we got stomped. I don't see how it was fun for either team - my guild largely checked out and we didn't even set a full defense. I really don't want to burn out my guys on unwinnable match-ups like this; why would I ask people to take time from their busy weekend when the outcome isn't in question?
If we get this scenario again we'll probably just do nothing and take the 2 zetas, as I can't in good conscience ask people to waste their time on pointless TWs. If people want to use it as a GAC testing ground, cool, but I value my guild members' energy and time too much to ask them to participate in noncompetitive match-ups.
You can say I'm a sore loser or that I owe it to the other guild to set a defense or whatever, but as a leader it's my responsibility to battle burnout fatigue in my guild so that people don't quit. Forcing people to participate in an unwinnable TW is counterproductive to those goals.
Just a heads up: if you do get matched with a stronger opponent, you might not want to “do nothing”.
If you or anyone else in the guild finish a TW on 0 banners, you don’t get the rewards. So you either need to set at least 1 squad each, or ensure you take out at least 1 of theirs.
I'm not sure if simply matching guilds based on the amount of participants would solve the issue.
I would assume that guilds who intentionally sandbag will just bring in low GP alts to influence matchmaking in their favour.
I mean, there are ways to exploit every system, but each hurdle you put up will dissuade a portion of people from making the effort.
If there is some guild out there that doesn't want to ever have a competitive TW and would rather just steamroll casual players over and over by gaming the matchmaking, more power to them I guess?
We used to have a softball team made up of semi-professional players that kept signing up in our rec league and blowing out every game. Eventually we (and every other team in the league) just started not showing up whenever they were on the schedule.
True competitors want to prove they are the best against the best. Beating up on someone half your size just makes you a bully.
Since we reached 200 mill gp, we only had sandbaggigng opponents. 18, 20, 26 mill and more is the difference in gp. This isnt fair machmaking. We cant do anything about it. We will not do sandbagging. We will report every opponent from now. Devs should at least aknowledge the problem.
Our 230M GP guild doesn't require participation in TW as about half the guild thinks the mode blows. I'm sure this is not uncommon. So what you perceive as sandbagging is often just apathy.
Since we reached 200 mill gp, we only had sandbaggigng opponents. 18, 20, 26 mill and more is the difference in gp. This isnt fair machmaking. We cant do anything about it. We will not do sandbagging. We will report every opponent from now. Devs should at least aknowledge the problem.
Our 230M GP guild doesn't require participation in TW as about half the guild thinks the mode blows. I'm sure this is not uncommon. So what you perceive as sandbagging is often just apathy.
This!
While there are a few guilds that may deliberately sandbag, I think most are just big guilds that either don't have full rosters or have members that don't want to sign up every time. We generally get 45-48 of our 50 each time.
Since we reached 200 mill gp, we only had sandbaggigng opponents. 18, 20, 26 mill and more is the difference in gp. This isnt fair machmaking. We cant do anything about it. We will not do sandbagging. We will report every opponent from now. Devs should at least aknowledge the problem.
Our 230M GP guild doesn't require participation in TW as about half the guild thinks the mode blows. I'm sure this is not uncommon. So what you perceive as sandbagging is often just apathy.
This!
While there are a few guilds that may deliberately sandbag, I think most are just big guilds that either don't have full rosters or have members that don't want to sign up every time. We generally get 45-48 of our 50 each time.
Yeah we usually get maybe 40-42 out of 50 that sign up and then 2/3 of those just set defense for their rewards and don't do anything else. I go all offense and use it to practice comps for GA since CG is too lazy to build us the practice mode we all have asked for.
I read through the comments and smiled a lot.
Seriously you think a 240-250M GP guild, where the average GP is 4.5M, has 30 nego activated, 8-10 GAS, has 40 r7 GG, it doesn't intentionally go back to the middle group to be there big guy? Or is it always the case that each of our opponents does not score 6-8 points during the tw join period? You are very naive.
As the saying goes, no matter what the rules allow, it is still called cheating among normal people.
In a normal community, they would be sanctioned, or at least they would make changes that would not be worth doing.
I read through the comments and smiled a lot.
Seriously you think a 240-250M GP guild, where the average GP is 4.5M, has 30 nego activated, 8-10 GAS, has 40 r7 GG, it doesn't intentionally go back to the middle group to be there big guy? Or is it always the case that each of our opponents does not score 6-8 points during the tw join period? You are very naive.
As the saying goes, no matter what the rules allow, it is still called cheating among normal people.
In a normal community, they would be sanctioned, or at least they would make changes that would not be worth doing. But unfortunately this is no longer a normal game, just a money pump before closing ...
I think you guys that think "sandbagging" is the primary reason larger guilds don't have people sign up for TW as opposed to apathy are nuts. I'd be very surprised if many guilds were purposefully (or successfully) mandating people to sit out of TW just so the guild can win. People normally do what's in their best interest. Most people are not going to sit out of a mode due to a guild asking them to. On the other hand, it's very highly likely they sit out because they just...don't....care.
I read through the comments and smiled a lot.
Seriously you think a 240-250M GP guild, where the average GP is 4.5M, has 30 nego activated, 8-10 GAS, has 40 r7 GG, it doesn't intentionally go back to the middle group to be there big guy? Or is it always the case that each of our opponents does not score 6-8 points during the tw join period? You are very naive.
As the saying goes, no matter what the rules allow, it is still called cheating among normal people.
In a normal community, they would be sanctioned, or at least they would make changes that would not be worth doing.
Cheating is doing something that breaks the rules... "Cheating among normal people" just sounds like a bunch of salt and shade.
I read through the comments and smiled a lot.
Seriously you think a 240-250M GP guild, where the average GP is 4.5M, has 30 nego activated, 8-10 GAS, has 40 r7 GG, it doesn't intentionally go back to the middle group to be there big guy? Or is it always the case that each of our opponents does not score 6-8 points during the tw join period? You are very naive.
As the saying goes, no matter what the rules allow, it is still called cheating among normal people.
In a normal community, they would be sanctioned, or at least they would make changes that would not be worth doing.
Reading comments like this makes me laugh.
If you read the recruitment posts in that section of the forum, many top end / elite guilds are saying that TW signup is optional.
In a normal community, people have at least some capability to think outside their own heads, and can visualise what it’s like in other guilds where things are different to their own.
19 per zone meaning they had 38 sign up to our 47. Needless to say it wasnt even close and i agree, this **** needs to be fixed already. Faster than Malak in my opinion.
This 100%. Our guild is in this same situation. We always strive for full participation because we’re right on that 3 zeta cusp at 134M GP. And then we get spanked because we don’t have nearly as many meta and G13s pound for pound.
I read through the comments and smiled a lot.
Seriously you think a 240-250M GP guild, where the average GP is 4.5M, has 30 nego activated, 8-10 GAS, has 40 r7 GG, it doesn't intentionally go back to the middle group to be there big guy? Or is it always the case that each of our opponents does not score 6-8 points during the tw join period? You are very naive.
As the saying goes, no matter what the rules allow, it is still called cheating among normal people.
In a normal community, they would be sanctioned, or at least they would make changes that would not be worth doing.
You do realize that everyone acknowledges that sandbagging happens intentionally right? No one is that naive.
So i'm not sure what you're smiling about..
The problem lies that there are plenty guilds that do NOT intentionally sandbag and those guilds shouldn't be punished because there are some guilds that do intentionally sandbag. Better matchmaking would solve all the entire issue because it would no longer be beneficial to sandbag, regardless of wheter or not it is intentional.
Not sure why people have so much difficulty understanding that and have to keep on hammering on about guilds doing it intentionally.
I'm in a 237M gp guild, and we have a few original guild members who have gone very casual along with a few other members who are devoting minimal time to the game. The result is we normally have 42-45 members participating in TW, and we win about 90% of the time against usually overmatched guilds. Should matchmaking be better so the battles are even? Absolutely. A couple of times we have gotten walloped by a higher GP guild with lesser participation, so I understand that would get frustrating if it became a frequent occurrence. But, if punishment model was used, that would just force guilds like ours to kick the long-time members or drive away other members in frustration.
I read through the comments and smiled a lot.
Seriously you think a 240-250M GP guild, where the average GP is 4.5M, has 30 nego activated, 8-10 GAS, has 40 r7 GG, it doesn't intentionally go back to the middle group to be there big guy? Or is it always the case that each of our opponents does not score 6-8 points during the tw join period? You are very naive.
As the saying goes, no matter what the rules allow, it is still called cheating among normal people.
In a normal community, they would be sanctioned, or at least they would make changes that would not be worth doing.
You do realize that everyone acknowledges that sandbagging happens intentionally right? No one is that naive.
So i'm not sure what you're smiling about..
The problem lies that there are plenty guilds that do NOT intentionally sandbag and those guilds shouldn't be punished because there are some guilds that do intentionally sandbag. Better matchmaking would solve all the entire issue because it would no longer be beneficial to sandbag, regardless of wheter or not it is intentional.
Not sure why people have so much difficulty understanding that and have to keep on hammering on about guilds doing it intentionally.
Perhaps it's easier to blame your opponent's "evil intent" than to blame CG's lack of competence?
But you are correct - my guild has been both sides of this many times, and I would say that there was *maybe* one instance where the sandbagging was likely deliberate. Most of the times it's just problems with the current algorithm. What irks me is that the data that is needed to address the problem is freely available - SWGoH.gg can see things like average arena rank, zetas, 15+ speed mods, etc. I can predict the outcomes of our TWs with 100% accuracy just from looking at the DSRBot summary.
I read through the comments and smiled a lot.
Seriously you think a 240-250M GP guild, where the average GP is 4.5M, has 30 nego activated, 8-10 GAS, has 40 r7 GG, it doesn't intentionally go back to the middle group to be there big guy? Or is it always the case that each of our opponents does not score 6-8 points during the tw join period? You are very naive.
As the saying goes, no matter what the rules allow, it is still called cheating among normal people.
In a normal community, they would be sanctioned, or at least they would make changes that would not be worth doing.
You do realize that everyone acknowledges that sandbagging happens intentionally right? No one is that naive.
So i'm not sure what you're smiling about..
The problem lies that there are plenty guilds that do NOT intentionally sandbag and those guilds shouldn't be punished because there are some guilds that do intentionally sandbag. Better matchmaking would solve all the entire issue because it would no longer be beneficial to sandbag, regardless of wheter or not it is intentional.
Not sure why people have so much difficulty understanding that and have to keep on hammering on about guilds doing it intentionally.
Perhaps it's easier to blame your opponent's "evil intent" than to blame CG's lack of competence?
This. People see 45-49 opponents and presume "sandbagging" took place, when there are actually many completely legitimate reasons even a 200+ million GP active guild would have a few people out:
1) Vacations, busy weekend, etc. As many have already stated it is far better for the guild for a player who doesn't have time this TW to sit out than to simply post defense and not do anything. It's dead weight.
2) At this point in the game (and pretty much ANY point in the game) there are a lot of people quitting, switching guilds, guilds consolidating/merging, etc. Even near end-game players with 4 and 5 million GP are quitting. Guilds are in flux. Not every guild as at 50 members, no matter what swgoh.gg might have listed.
3) Some guilds, who are at less than 50 players have a few players running alt accounts to help with tokens for raids. Those alts are often much weaker than the average guild member so they "leave" for TW. IMHO, that's not sandbagging, that just makes sense.
While the matchmaking algorithm can always be improved, I don't think nearly as many guilds "sandbag" as people presume. If I was ever in a guild that asked me to "sit out" and not be eligible for rewards, even though I have a decent roster and can contribute, I'd leave. Most players would.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
We will report every opponent from now. Devs should at least aknowledge the problem.
So, you choose to report guilds that don't break any rules? Clever.......
No, its really simple. There is a huge need to fix sandbagging and compare guilds based on total gp also not just active registered gp. Easy as that.
I made a thread about this last tw but it was deleted. We get crushed every tw because our opponents always leave people out to lower their gp. It is such a gross move and it has such an easy fix. I dont understand why cg refuses to do anything about it.
I read through the comments and smiled a lot.
Seriously you think a 240-250M GP guild, where the average GP is 4.5M, has 30 nego activated, 8-10 GAS, has 40 r7 GG, it doesn't intentionally go back to the middle group to be there big guy? Or is it always the case that each of our opponents does not score 6-8 points during the tw join period? You are very naive.
As the saying goes, no matter what the rules allow, it is still called cheating among normal people.
In a normal community, they would be sanctioned, or at least they would make changes that would not be worth doing.
You do realize that everyone acknowledges that sandbagging happens intentionally right? No one is that naive.
So i'm not sure what you're smiling about..
The problem lies that there are plenty guilds that do NOT intentionally sandbag and those guilds shouldn't be punished because there are some guilds that do intentionally sandbag. Better matchmaking would solve all the entire issue because it would no longer be beneficial to sandbag, regardless of wheter or not it is intentional.
Not sure why people have so much difficulty understanding that and have to keep on hammering on about guilds doing it intentionally.
Not sure why so many are missing the point entirely including you. The other guild shouldn't be punished at all but they definitely shouldn't be getting paired with full guilds either. That's the point of this thread and the hundreds just like it. It isn't that hard to understand but apparently it is.
It may not have been your point originally, but since other people have declared that this is cheating behavior that should be punished, another group of posters is responding to that point. That doesn’t mean anybody is missing your point, they have just veered off on a slightly different topic.
I don't believe this issue is as widespread as people make it out to be.
We are a PVP-oriented 230M guild with an excellent TW track record. For as long as I can remember (going back at least a year), we never fielded all 50 players.
a) Some people just don't like TW, even in our guild.
b) Sometimes people quit and we have alts in the guild to help with tickets. Naturally, alts don't get to participate.
c) Sometimes real life gets in a way of SWGOH and people can't participate in a TW - ridiculous, I know, but it does happen.
I read through the comments and smiled a lot.
Seriously you think a 240-250M GP guild, where the average GP is 4.5M, has 30 nego activated, 8-10 GAS, has 40 r7 GG, it doesn't intentionally go back to the middle group to be there big guy? Or is it always the case that each of our opponents does not score 6-8 points during the tw join period? You are very naive.
As the saying goes, no matter what the rules allow, it is still called cheating among normal people.
In a normal community, they would be sanctioned, or at least they would make changes that would not be worth doing.
You do realize that everyone acknowledges that sandbagging happens intentionally right? No one is that naive.
So i'm not sure what you're smiling about..
The problem lies that there are plenty guilds that do NOT intentionally sandbag and those guilds shouldn't be punished because there are some guilds that do intentionally sandbag. Better matchmaking would solve all the entire issue because it would no longer be beneficial to sandbag, regardless of wheter or not it is intentional.
Not sure why people have so much difficulty understanding that and have to keep on hammering on about guilds doing it intentionally.
Not sure why so many are missing the point entirely including you. The other guild shouldn't be punished at all but they definitely shouldn't be getting paired with full guilds either. That's the point of this thread and the hundreds just like it. It isn't that hard to understand but apparently it is.
Have you even read the comment you quoted? "better matchmaking would solve all the entire issue because it would no longer be beneficial to sandbag, regardless of wheter or not it is intentional."
You can try to make it seem like i'm missing the point, but i'm clearly not. Maybe you're the one who doesn't understand.
I read through the comments and smiled a lot.
Seriously you think a 240-250M GP guild, where the average GP is 4.5M, has 30 nego activated, 8-10 GAS, has 40 r7 GG, it doesn't intentionally go back to the middle group to be there big guy? Or is it always the case that each of our opponents does not score 6-8 points during the tw join period? You are very naive.
As the saying goes, no matter what the rules allow, it is still called cheating among normal people.
In a normal community, they would be sanctioned, or at least they would make changes that would not be worth doing.
You do realize that everyone acknowledges that sandbagging happens intentionally right? No one is that naive.
So i'm not sure what you're smiling about..
The problem lies that there are plenty guilds that do NOT intentionally sandbag and those guilds shouldn't be punished because there are some guilds that do intentionally sandbag. Better matchmaking would solve all the entire issue because it would no longer be beneficial to sandbag, regardless of wheter or not it is intentional.
Not sure why people have so much difficulty understanding that and have to keep on hammering on about guilds doing it intentionally.
Not sure why so many are missing the point entirely including you. The other guild shouldn't be punished at all but they definitely shouldn't be getting paired with full guilds either. That's the point of this thread and the hundreds just like it. It isn't that hard to understand but apparently it is.
Have you even read the comment you quoted? "better matchmaking would solve all the entire issue because it would no longer be beneficial to sandbag, regardless of wheter or not it is intentional."
You can try to make it seem like i'm missing the point, but i'm clearly not. Maybe you're the one who doesn't understand.
This. While many people seem to making points that don't quite address that concern, many are agreeing with the basic premise that matchmaking needs to improved in order to fairly account for the difference.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
This is called being a sore loser. People not joining TW isn’t (100% of the time) sandbagging. Maybe some guilds do it, I don’t see it. We haven’t had 100% participation maybe ever. If people aren’t going to be around they are free to not join. That isn’t sandbagging. Sorry. Shore up your strategy.
My guild regularly has only 25-30 member participation and we get slammed for the most part.
We’re not sandbagging, many people in our guild are not leveled up enough to participate in guild events and our guild priority is to help others in our guild build and develop their game.
We started out as a development guild and now we’re more of an intermediate development guild that will take in new players.
Perhaps us being a lower GP doesn’t have as much an effect having less participation. But again, many of our guild members have not yet acquired the ability to join guild events at L65
They need to shore up their matchmaking. Bottom line is guilds like mine they value 100% participation are suffering. Regardless of whether they’re doing it intentionally or not they’d at an advantage if they have less than full participation.
My guild regularly has only 25-30 member participation and we get slammed for the most part.
We’re not sandbagging, many people in our guild are not leveled up enough to participate in guild events and our guild priority is to help others in our guild build and develop their game.
We started out as a development guild and now we’re more of an intermediate development guild that will take in new players.
Perhaps us being a lower GP doesn’t have as much an effect having less participation. But again, many of our guild members have not yet acquired the ability to join guild events at L65
Even in my casual guild. We pretty much average between 35-40 participants per TW. We're not strategically "sandbagging". It's just that some people have things to do and don't join if they feel they can't actively participate. Even outside of that, some people just plain don't like PvP and don't play TWs as consistently as things like TB/raids/etc...
My point being is that the OP is making it seem like all instances of this is done with malicious intent, thus should all be punished in some way. That's not the case. I'm sure we all agree that matchmaking could be refined a little more, but that's something that can be said for pretty much any competitive multiplayer game.
How do you determine if a guild is sandbagging on purpose and "cheating" as you call it versus a guild that has rules that if you aren't willing to participate 100% in TW then don't sign up? Like others here, we not only don't force our members to join TW, we ask them not to if they know that they are going to be traveling or busy and not able to play. There is nothing more frustrating to a guild then having someone that joins and then doesn't put a team on defense nor makes an attack. That punishes the 49 other members that try.
Also worth noting is that at higher Guild GPs, the impact of 2-3 members not participating has a much greater impact. When they have around 5M GP each, that's a quick drop off and it gets much more difficult for matchmaking to make a fair matchup. Does it suck? Yep. We were on both sides of that equation these past 2 TWs. Calling that cheating though seems harsh and there is no way to determine if a guild is doing it on purpose to get an advantage or just doesn't force it's members to play TW.
How do you determine if a guild is sandbagging on purpose and "cheating" as you call it versus a guild that has rules that if you aren't willing to participate 100% in TW then don't sign up? Like others here, we not only don't force our members to join TW, we ask them not to if they know that they are going to be traveling or busy and not able to play. There is nothing more frustrating to a guild then having someone that joins and then doesn't put a team on defense nor makes an attack. That punishes the 49 other members that try.
Also worth noting is that at higher Guild GPs, the impact of 2-3 members not participating has a much greater impact. When they have around 5M GP each, that's a quick drop off and it gets much more difficult for matchmaking to make a fair matchup. Does it suck? Yep. We were on both sides of that equation these past 2 TWs. Calling that cheating though seems harsh and there is no way to determine if a guild is doing it on purpose to get an advantage or just doesn't force it's members to play TW.
Replies
I would assume that guilds who intentionally sandbag will just bring in low GP alts to influence matchmaking in their favour.
Good to know. Tusken wall it is.
I mean, there are ways to exploit every system, but each hurdle you put up will dissuade a portion of people from making the effort.
If there is some guild out there that doesn't want to ever have a competitive TW and would rather just steamroll casual players over and over by gaming the matchmaking, more power to them I guess?
We used to have a softball team made up of semi-professional players that kept signing up in our rec league and blowing out every game. Eventually we (and every other team in the league) just started not showing up whenever they were on the schedule.
True competitors want to prove they are the best against the best. Beating up on someone half your size just makes you a bully.
Sandbagging starts around 160mil gp actually.
Our 230M GP guild doesn't require participation in TW as about half the guild thinks the mode blows. I'm sure this is not uncommon. So what you perceive as sandbagging is often just apathy.
This!
While there are a few guilds that may deliberately sandbag, I think most are just big guilds that either don't have full rosters or have members that don't want to sign up every time. We generally get 45-48 of our 50 each time.
Yeah we usually get maybe 40-42 out of 50 that sign up and then 2/3 of those just set defense for their rewards and don't do anything else. I go all offense and use it to practice comps for GA since CG is too lazy to build us the practice mode we all have asked for.
Seriously you think a 240-250M GP guild, where the average GP is 4.5M, has 30 nego activated, 8-10 GAS, has 40 r7 GG, it doesn't intentionally go back to the middle group to be there big guy? Or is it always the case that each of our opponents does not score 6-8 points during the tw join period? You are very naive.
As the saying goes, no matter what the rules allow, it is still called cheating among normal people.
In a normal community, they would be sanctioned, or at least they would make changes that would not be worth doing.
I think you guys that think "sandbagging" is the primary reason larger guilds don't have people sign up for TW as opposed to apathy are nuts. I'd be very surprised if many guilds were purposefully (or successfully) mandating people to sit out of TW just so the guild can win. People normally do what's in their best interest. Most people are not going to sit out of a mode due to a guild asking them to. On the other hand, it's very highly likely they sit out because they just...don't....care.
Cheating is doing something that breaks the rules... "Cheating among normal people" just sounds like a bunch of salt and shade.
If you read the recruitment posts in that section of the forum, many top end / elite guilds are saying that TW signup is optional.
In a normal community, people have at least some capability to think outside their own heads, and can visualise what it’s like in other guilds where things are different to their own.
This 100%. Our guild is in this same situation. We always strive for full participation because we’re right on that 3 zeta cusp at 134M GP. And then we get spanked because we don’t have nearly as many meta and G13s pound for pound.
You do realize that everyone acknowledges that sandbagging happens intentionally right? No one is that naive.
So i'm not sure what you're smiling about..
The problem lies that there are plenty guilds that do NOT intentionally sandbag and those guilds shouldn't be punished because there are some guilds that do intentionally sandbag. Better matchmaking would solve all the entire issue because it would no longer be beneficial to sandbag, regardless of wheter or not it is intentional.
Not sure why people have so much difficulty understanding that and have to keep on hammering on about guilds doing it intentionally.
Perhaps it's easier to blame your opponent's "evil intent" than to blame CG's lack of competence?
But you are correct - my guild has been both sides of this many times, and I would say that there was *maybe* one instance where the sandbagging was likely deliberate. Most of the times it's just problems with the current algorithm. What irks me is that the data that is needed to address the problem is freely available - SWGoH.gg can see things like average arena rank, zetas, 15+ speed mods, etc. I can predict the outcomes of our TWs with 100% accuracy just from looking at the DSRBot summary.
This. People see 45-49 opponents and presume "sandbagging" took place, when there are actually many completely legitimate reasons even a 200+ million GP active guild would have a few people out:
1) Vacations, busy weekend, etc. As many have already stated it is far better for the guild for a player who doesn't have time this TW to sit out than to simply post defense and not do anything. It's dead weight.
2) At this point in the game (and pretty much ANY point in the game) there are a lot of people quitting, switching guilds, guilds consolidating/merging, etc. Even near end-game players with 4 and 5 million GP are quitting. Guilds are in flux. Not every guild as at 50 members, no matter what swgoh.gg might have listed.
3) Some guilds, who are at less than 50 players have a few players running alt accounts to help with tokens for raids. Those alts are often much weaker than the average guild member so they "leave" for TW. IMHO, that's not sandbagging, that just makes sense.
While the matchmaking algorithm can always be improved, I don't think nearly as many guilds "sandbag" as people presume. If I was ever in a guild that asked me to "sit out" and not be eligible for rewards, even though I have a decent roster and can contribute, I'd leave. Most players would.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
I made a thread about this last tw but it was deleted. We get crushed every tw because our opponents always leave people out to lower their gp. It is such a gross move and it has such an easy fix. I dont understand why cg refuses to do anything about it.
It may not have been your point originally, but since other people have declared that this is cheating behavior that should be punished, another group of posters is responding to that point. That doesn’t mean anybody is missing your point, they have just veered off on a slightly different topic.
We are a PVP-oriented 230M guild with an excellent TW track record. For as long as I can remember (going back at least a year), we never fielded all 50 players.
a) Some people just don't like TW, even in our guild.
b) Sometimes people quit and we have alts in the guild to help with tickets. Naturally, alts don't get to participate.
c) Sometimes real life gets in a way of SWGOH and people can't participate in a TW - ridiculous, I know, but it does happen.
Nobody was ever asked to sit out a TW.
Have you even read the comment you quoted?
"better matchmaking would solve all the entire issue because it would no longer be beneficial to sandbag, regardless of wheter or not it is intentional."
You can try to make it seem like i'm missing the point, but i'm clearly not. Maybe you're the one who doesn't understand.
This. While many people seem to making points that don't quite address that concern, many are agreeing with the basic premise that matchmaking needs to improved in order to fairly account for the difference.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
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We’re not sandbagging, many people in our guild are not leveled up enough to participate in guild events and our guild priority is to help others in our guild build and develop their game.
We started out as a development guild and now we’re more of an intermediate development guild that will take in new players.
Perhaps us being a lower GP doesn’t have as much an effect having less participation. But again, many of our guild members have not yet acquired the ability to join guild events at L65
Even in my casual guild. We pretty much average between 35-40 participants per TW. We're not strategically "sandbagging". It's just that some people have things to do and don't join if they feel they can't actively participate. Even outside of that, some people just plain don't like PvP and don't play TWs as consistently as things like TB/raids/etc...
My point being is that the OP is making it seem like all instances of this is done with malicious intent, thus should all be punished in some way. That's not the case. I'm sure we all agree that matchmaking could be refined a little more, but that's something that can be said for pretty much any competitive multiplayer game.
Also worth noting is that at higher Guild GPs, the impact of 2-3 members not participating has a much greater impact. When they have around 5M GP each, that's a quick drop off and it gets much more difficult for matchmaking to make a fair matchup. Does it suck? Yep. We were on both sides of that equation these past 2 TWs. Calling that cheating though seems harsh and there is no way to determine if a guild is doing it on purpose to get an advantage or just doesn't force it's members to play TW.
https://swgoh.gg/u/rwtdBurn/
I didn’t call it cheating.