I am simply saying that GAC is not the primary part of the game that incentivizes roster building. I am also suggesting that the idea that "weaker" rosters being matched up against "stronger" ones (which has been implied, if not directly stated by several in this thread) as some sort of "reward" to the stronger or "incentive" to the weaker, is nonsensical. Yet people continue to put forth both ideas regarding GAC, despite what CG has stated about the goal of the mode and how matchmaking works.
And it often is disguised as the typical "It's WAI, even though you with 10 relic characters are matched up against someone with 23 relic characters." - as a way of acting like there are never any matchups which might not be "as intended." Honestly, the idea that CG finally got something as complex as matchmaking, totally right, is an odd place to plant your flag. But I guess that's people's prerogative.
There is literally no incentive built into GAC to improve your roster.
What happens in the event of a draw? If you are going to say that doesn't support roster-building, then I don't know what does. People haven't said that the matchmaking is a reward to strong rosters, they simply benefit from it, as is inevitable. If you have the weaker roster, you are incentivised to improve it so as to not have the weaker roster next time, that's just common sense, and if you have the stronger roster, then no matter what the algorithm does you will benefit unless it is designed to target said rosters, which it shouldn't be. I don't believe I've ever said the matchmaking is WAI, because I don't know what the developers intended, but a lot of people who complain about how unfair it is are exaggerating the issue and could win if they put the effort in. to say the matchmaking must be wrong, simply because you lose some is also an odd stance to take, and yet people do incessantly. So yes, I believe the matchmaking works on the whole, nothing can be perfect, but as someone who falls on the bad side of it regularly, it could be far worse.
I've been saying this since before they even released GAC: matchmaking should be based on a ladder system, not quasi-random chance. Right now there's only one matchmaking criteria: GP of top X toons. That's it. It doesn't take into account skill level, quality of mods, meta versus non-meta toons, breadth of collection, etc. So long as that one GP variable is matched, you could be going up against simple to ridiculously difficult opponents.
Arena got it right with matchmaking. IMO, rewards should scale with division, division should be determined by rank, rank determined by wins and losses. Would solve the entire problem of matchmaking, because you'd constantly be pushing your abilities, rather than having a good chance of crushing your opponent or being crushed yourself.
Where would your incentive be in GAC to enhance your relic from tier 6 to tier 7, if you would never face players with tier 7 relic teams, if you yourself kept yours at tier 6?
I already answered that - the incentive is in squad arena, TB and TW - not GAC.
Meanwhile others also find an incentive in trying to stay competitive or become competitive in GAC.
Besides, aren't you the one who was touting that GAC matchups are trying to match people with similar strength rosters?
Similar != identical.
Don't misinterpret my previous statements.
Strength != roster strength.
Don't twist my previous statements.
Players are matched by total roster GP (divisions), relevant GP and previous performance (leagues) - not roster strength.
Source? The only thing we know for certain is that the matchmaking algorithm takes top 60-80 character GP into account. Everything else in your statement is an assumption on your part.
We have official announcements, that there is no cross-division matches, or cross league matches. Check old update notes. Hence players are also matched by division (total roster GP) and league (previous performance).
I am right - you are wrong.
I don't have to twist your previous statements. You arguments aren't logical. GAC takes a roster snapshot then matches you up based on the GP of top 60-80 characters. If that doesn't improve, then your matchups don't get more difficult the next time.
I never claimed, you could improve on that snapshot, but your roster could be stronger by the next snapshot.
If you stop improving your roster, you will eventually have more difficult matchups. Players, who have lower relevant GP than you today, will catch up, and by that time they may have new META teams, which you won't have.
Furthermor, not all improvements affect your GP (and match-ups) . Replacing a +15 speed 6 dot mod with a +25 speed 6 dot mod doesn't change your GP. However, it could change the outcome of a battle.
There is literally no incentive built into GAC to improve your roster.
There is.
And there doesn't need to be. Such an incentive already exists in almost every other aspect of the game (TB, both arenas, TW, etc.)
I agree, that there is also incentive outside of GAC.
I'm not sure why you continue to cling to the notion that GAC has to create incentive to strengthen your roster,...
I like and prefer, that it does. I'm not sure why you prefer, that it didn't.
So mindnumbingly tiring this whole discussion is...
I must have a particularly poorly designed roster with highly developed weak toons and high useless gear to be permanently matched with players all significantly stronger than me.
In addition silly me didn’t get all the must have meta toons while at the same time gearing up all the previous toons required for raids, arena and all the other game modes. Big strategy fail.
All of the above is obviously totally true since matchmaking is perfect and infallible!!!
At this point I am out. If you find any sarcasm in my comment you can keep it.
Source? The only thing we know for certain is that the matchmaking algorithm takes top 60-80 character GP into account. Everything else in your statement is an assumption on your part.
I don't have to twist your previous statements. You arguments aren't logical. GAC takes a roster snapshot then matches you up based on the GP of top 60-80 characters. If that doesn't improve, then your matchups don't get more difficult the next time. There is literally no incentive built into GAC to improve your roster. And there doesn't need to be. Such an incentive already exists in almost every other aspect of the game (TB, both arenas, TW, etc.)
I'm not sure why you continue to cling to the notion that GAC has to create incentive to strengthen your roster, when, by the very nature of it's design, it clearly does not.
Everything he stated was explained fact with regards to matchmaking, division is chosen by total GP, league is based on your performance, and relevant GP is the factor that they matchmake on, within division and league. Also his arguments are perfectly logical, what you are suggesting is because the matchups won't get harder, you should just never improve your top 60-80, which is a stupid suggestion, because the next thing that comes along will be a new meta, so over time your roster will become weak compared to players that work on them, and yes, working on new metas will boost that GP, so don't suggest otherwise. The nature of this game means matchups get more difficult as people progress, so you need to try and keep up. Otherwise what's the point of the game as a whole? GAC doesn't have to incentivise people, but it does so anyway, so I don't know what you're trying to say, but either it's wrong or you aren't getting the point across well.
I am simply saying that GAC is not the primary part of the game that incentivizes roster building.
So mindnumbingly tiring this whole discussion is...
I must have a particularly poorly designed roster with highly developed weak toons and high useless gear to be permanently matched with players all significantly stronger than me.
In addition silly me didn’t get all the must have meta toons while at the same time gearing up all the previous toons required for raids, arena and all the other game modes. Big strategy fail.
All of the above is obviously totally true since matchmaking is perfect and infallible!!!
At this point I am out. If you find any sarcasm in my comment you can keep it.
If you were to share your roster with people, they might be able to tell/help you, but not if you just shout about how it's not your fault. Also most people seem to manage to find a balance, so who knows, maybe there's less sarcasm there than you intended...
All in all there is still room for improvement on how GAC matchmaking system works like include matching by wins/losses.
The addition of one more league would be a really easy fix, too (I'm sure it's division dependent, but the big mismatches seem to happen in specific weeks for specific leagues).
I'd say get rid of the 8 player bracket and go to a single match-up, add leagues, and adjust awards accordingly (distribute zetas / omegas on league promotions instead of individual brackets) and MM naturally sorts itself a lot better. It's not granular enough to serve the purpose it was intended to serve.
Of course, after this shop's history of getting things wrong, I would expect the roll out to take several months. These folks make money in spite of themselves. I hope Disney is getting their fair share for the IP.
Source? The only thing we know for certain is that the matchmaking algorithm takes top 60-80 character GP into account. Everything else in your statement is an assumption on your part.
I don't have to twist your previous statements. You arguments aren't logical. GAC takes a roster snapshot then matches you up based on the GP of top 60-80 characters. If that doesn't improve, then your matchups don't get more difficult the next time. There is literally no incentive built into GAC to improve your roster. And there doesn't need to be. Such an incentive already exists in almost every other aspect of the game (TB, both arenas, TW, etc.)
I'm not sure why you continue to cling to the notion that GAC has to create incentive to strengthen your roster, when, by the very nature of it's design, it clearly does not.
Everything he stated was explained fact with regards to matchmaking, division is chosen by total GP, league is based on your performance, and relevant GP is the factor that they matchmake on, within division and league. Also his arguments are perfectly logical, what you are suggesting is because the matchups won't get harder, you should just never improve your top 60-80, which is a stupid suggestion, because the next thing that comes along will be a new meta, so over time your roster will become weak compared to players that work on them, and yes, working on new metas will boost that GP, so don't suggest otherwise. The nature of this game means matchups get more difficult as people progress, so you need to try and keep up. Otherwise what's the point of the game as a whole? GAC doesn't have to incentivise people, but it does so anyway, so I don't know what you're trying to say, but either it's wrong or you aren't getting the point across well.
I am simply saying that GAC is not the primary part of the game that incentivizes roster building.
There is literally no incentive built into GAC to improve your roster.
I'm happy, that we finaly agree now, that GAC gives incentive to improve your roster.
Agree to respectfully disagree. But let's both let it go.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Source? The only thing we know for certain is that the matchmaking algorithm takes top 60-80 character GP into account. Everything else in your statement is an assumption on your part.
I don't have to twist your previous statements. You arguments aren't logical. GAC takes a roster snapshot then matches you up based on the GP of top 60-80 characters. If that doesn't improve, then your matchups don't get more difficult the next time. There is literally no incentive built into GAC to improve your roster. And there doesn't need to be. Such an incentive already exists in almost every other aspect of the game (TB, both arenas, TW, etc.)
I'm not sure why you continue to cling to the notion that GAC has to create incentive to strengthen your roster, when, by the very nature of it's design, it clearly does not.
Everything he stated was explained fact with regards to matchmaking, division is chosen by total GP, league is based on your performance, and relevant GP is the factor that they matchmake on, within division and league. Also his arguments are perfectly logical, what you are suggesting is because the matchups won't get harder, you should just never improve your top 60-80, which is a stupid suggestion, because the next thing that comes along will be a new meta, so over time your roster will become weak compared to players that work on them, and yes, working on new metas will boost that GP, so don't suggest otherwise. The nature of this game means matchups get more difficult as people progress, so you need to try and keep up. Otherwise what's the point of the game as a whole? GAC doesn't have to incentivise people, but it does so anyway, so I don't know what you're trying to say, but either it's wrong or you aren't getting the point across well.
I am simply saying that GAC is not the primary part of the game that incentivizes roster building.
Replies
That's most definitely not the same as this:
What happens in the event of a draw? If you are going to say that doesn't support roster-building, then I don't know what does. People haven't said that the matchmaking is a reward to strong rosters, they simply benefit from it, as is inevitable. If you have the weaker roster, you are incentivised to improve it so as to not have the weaker roster next time, that's just common sense, and if you have the stronger roster, then no matter what the algorithm does you will benefit unless it is designed to target said rosters, which it shouldn't be. I don't believe I've ever said the matchmaking is WAI, because I don't know what the developers intended, but a lot of people who complain about how unfair it is are exaggerating the issue and could win if they put the effort in. to say the matchmaking must be wrong, simply because you lose some is also an odd stance to take, and yet people do incessantly. So yes, I believe the matchmaking works on the whole, nothing can be perfect, but as someone who falls on the bad side of it regularly, it could be far worse.
Arena got it right with matchmaking. IMO, rewards should scale with division, division should be determined by rank, rank determined by wins and losses. Would solve the entire problem of matchmaking, because you'd constantly be pushing your abilities, rather than having a good chance of crushing your opponent or being crushed yourself.
We have official announcements, that there is no cross-division matches, or cross league matches. Check old update notes. Hence players are also matched by division (total roster GP) and league (previous performance).
I am right - you are wrong.
I never claimed, you could improve on that snapshot, but your roster could be stronger by the next snapshot.
If you stop improving your roster, you will eventually have more difficult matchups. Players, who have lower relevant GP than you today, will catch up, and by that time they may have new META teams, which you won't have.
Furthermor, not all improvements affect your GP (and match-ups) . Replacing a +15 speed 6 dot mod with a +25 speed 6 dot mod doesn't change your GP. However, it could change the outcome of a battle.
There is.
I agree, that there is also incentive outside of GAC.
I like and prefer, that it does. I'm not sure why you prefer, that it didn't.
I must have a particularly poorly designed roster with highly developed weak toons and high useless gear to be permanently matched with players all significantly stronger than me.
In addition silly me didn’t get all the must have meta toons while at the same time gearing up all the previous toons required for raids, arena and all the other game modes. Big strategy fail.
All of the above is obviously totally true since matchmaking is perfect and infallible!!!
At this point I am out. If you find any sarcasm in my comment you can keep it.
Up until now, this is what you've been saying:
I'm happy, that we finaly agree now, that GAC gives incentive to improve your roster.
If you were to share your roster with people, they might be able to tell/help you, but not if you just shout about how it's not your fault. Also most people seem to manage to find a balance, so who knows, maybe there's less sarcasm there than you intended...
The addition of one more league would be a really easy fix, too (I'm sure it's division dependent, but the big mismatches seem to happen in specific weeks for specific leagues).
I'd say get rid of the 8 player bracket and go to a single match-up, add leagues, and adjust awards accordingly (distribute zetas / omegas on league promotions instead of individual brackets) and MM naturally sorts itself a lot better. It's not granular enough to serve the purpose it was intended to serve.
Of course, after this shop's history of getting things wrong, I would expect the roll out to take several months. These folks make money in spite of themselves. I hope Disney is getting their fair share for the IP.
Agree to respectfully disagree. But let's both let it go.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
You're not making sense, dude. What's your point of view?
This:
Or this:
We disagree on the former. We agree on the latter.