"If that's the case, they don't want us completing it perfectly right away. They want us struggling with it and every time a new update / character / new feature comes along, we collectively start doing a little better. And slowly we build up to complete this End Game Content rather than ace it right from the word go.
Maybe instead of saying "We can't do this NOW, it's therefore not WAI and is badly programmed", we instead should be saying "We can't do this YET, if it is WAI then what are we going to get to help us do it?""
What I see differently from you here is that they did not tell us that this would be entirely out of reach for the current endgame level (I mean R7 characters that very few players have managed to get on more than a a handful of characters, and being unable to get to even wave 2 outside of rare cases) even on day 1, which has always been the easiest difficulty.
It was expected that this would be a little more difficult than the dark side territory battles. However, it was not at all expected that even day 1 would be quite a jump in difficulty from even the final day of dark side territory battles, and completely unplayable even with maxed characters in the current state. The leap is just far too large for what the community is comfortable with.
Relics came shortly after gear 13 was introduced, and that really doesn't feel that long ago considering how everyone outside of the largest spenders are still getting the vast majority of their main teams to even gear 13. There was also a very long gap if I remember correctly from gear 11 to being the final level to when they released gear 12, and 12 to 13 didn't feel very quick either and so increasing things again feels very quick, and there has been no previous info about this.
When Hoth TW was released then it was tough, but not completely unplayable for even day 1, so there were not really any complaints from what I remember. Dark Side Geo was very tough when it was released, but not entirely unplayable like lightside currently is, and gear 13 and relics were released shortly later.
So I just don't really see how this situation is comparable to previous situations with the game.
Another aspect of the mess they’ve made of this is what they’ve done to all other aspects of the game.
The maths has been done - for a guild to max star LS GeoTB you’d need 50 members with ~12M GP each AND perfect combat scores.
What would DS GeoTB hold for that guild? They might have to pick up 1 wave each on phase 4, but they would be a whisker away from max stars through deployment alone.
In their attempt to future proof this new content, they have signed the death warrant on the previous bit of new content. Guilds will be maxing DS GeoTB LONG before they’re getting close to maxing LS GeoTB.
Everyone, this is not a surprise and if it is, then you didn't read. The devs said this is the most challenging to date and that means it is harder than anything else. They did this with HSTH raid, with DS GEO Battle and will continue. When new content is released it is based on future state not current state. When DS GEO came out, no one was doing more than 20 starts (maybe the top 1% did more) and to date no guild has maxed it. My guild went from 12-15 to 27 since it was released. They release new content that make these events easier as we go. With DS GEO it was relics and g13. IT will be the same with this battle. In 3 months you will all be looking back on how hard it was like everyone did with HAAT, HSTH and even the first 2 Hoth TBs. Get a grip.
I happen to think it is WAI. My guild tried it with full expectations of not doing more than 10 stars and we are on track for about 6-7 so yes, harder than we thought, but not that far off. If you can't do it, then you and your guild are not ready. We are doing Hoth next time around and will revisit LS GEO TB in January or February. There is a reason why this game has lasted so long and it isn't solely because it is SW, but it is fun, frustrating, aggravating, nostalgic and challenging all at once. Believe me, I have almost broken several devices playing this game.
I know I am a minority in my opinion on this forum, but I believe that overall I am with the majority. I bet the top 1% of the players and top guilds are not unhappy at all, and while I am not a whale, just a fat dolphin, I spend $ and am glad that this is hard as it gives me something to work for in the future. If 3 months from now we are still doing 7 stars, then I might be ****, but I am sure with level cap increase, relic abilities and new toons, in 3 months our guild will be around 20 stars and possibly clearing the DS GEO TB.
Get a grip, the devs are doing a good job keeping everyone interested, challenged, but not without challenges. but with any new product, there will be bugs and this is where they need to improve their communication. For that is their weakness, but overall the game is working just fine. IMO.
I'm not sure you've seen the math on just how hard this is. The top 1% will have to double their GP to have the chance (assuming they win every battle and have a 50/50 guild doing the same) to clear it. The only other option is a huge spike in power creep which will certainly cost or take time and makes everything that isn't pvp a joke. Which are you hoping for?
You entitled to your opinion, but if you are that unhappy about it @citadel of Ricks, then quit. This is not unlike all the other releases since day 1. I have been playing since day one and this forum is a carbon copy of every other forum shortly after a new event is released. If I was able to do 20 stars right off the bat, I would have been more upset than I am now.
It actually does have me considering it. I've only been playing for 3 years, but I haven't seen any other release that requires the tip of the spear to double their rosters to complete it. Right after they just jumped power in a major way twice.
Everyone, this is not a surprise and if it is, then you didn't read. The devs said this is the most challenging to date and that means it is harder than anything else. They did this with HSTH raid, with DS GEO Battle and will continue. When new content is released it is based on future state not current state. When DS GEO came out, no one was doing more than 20 starts (maybe the top 1% did more) and to date no guild has maxed it. My guild went from 12-15 to 27 since it was released. They release new content that make these events easier as we go. With DS GEO it was relics and g13. IT will be the same with this battle. In 3 months you will all be looking back on how hard it was like everyone did with HAAT, HSTH and even the first 2 Hoth TBs. Get a grip.
I happen to think it is WAI. My guild tried it with full expectations of not doing more than 10 stars and we are on track for about 6-7 so yes, harder than we thought, but not that far off. If you can't do it, then you and your guild are not ready. We are doing Hoth next time around and will revisit LS GEO TB in January or February. There is a reason why this game has lasted so long and it isn't solely because it is SW, but it is fun, frustrating, aggravating, nostalgic and challenging all at once. Believe me, I have almost broken several devices playing this game.
I know I am a minority in my opinion on this forum, but I believe that overall I am with the majority. I bet the top 1% of the players and top guilds are not unhappy at all, and while I am not a whale, just a fat dolphin, I spend $ and am glad that this is hard as it gives me something to work for in the future. If 3 months from now we are still doing 7 stars, then I might be ****, but I am sure with level cap increase, relic abilities and new toons, in 3 months our guild will be around 20 stars and possibly clearing the DS GEO TB.
Get a grip, the devs are doing a good job keeping everyone interested, challenged, but not without challenges. but with any new product, there will be bugs and this is where they need to improve their communication. For that is their weakness, but overall the game is working just fine. IMO.
They did NOTHING to communicate the difficulty. You want to compare this to DS? Let’s do that. 90k NS were able to get through 3 waves of a mission before getting annihilated in phase 1. 95k NS are able to 4/4 the phase 1 missions now. This TB was given 70 million gp as required and 140 million gp recommendation. This TB 100 million gp required and 150 million gp recommendation. THIS communication suggests that 125k squads SHOULD get through 2-3 waves but reality is R4 150k squads are having issues getting to phase 3 and some even not making it through 1 wave.
Now look at rewards, 16* this TB = same rewards as 20* in DS. So if you are able to get 20 there then you can expect about 16 here. Given it’s extra difficulty then lower expectations to 11-12 NOT the 7 we will likely get.
Ok don’t like it go back to Hoth ... sure give me the option to do that FOR THIS TB.
They completely mislead us on purpose. END OF STORY
OP and others are completely missing the point. No **** the tb is tuned for future content. The problem is that people can see the writing on the paywall. It’s going to take some serious power creep to make this game mode even moderately enjoyable. Which means more wallet squeezing. Add on the fact that this is the ‘content’ that we’ve been waiting for and people are justifiably angry, because it’s unplayable dreck at the moment. Of course it will be easier later on, but how many people are going to stick around to find out?
maybe CG's intention is to have these new Territory Battles remain "End Game Content" for many months, maybe even a year?
If that's the case, they don't want us completing it perfectly right away.
No one is expecting to get perfect stars right away, but we are expecting (rightly so) a game mode that is actually playable, fun, and possible to achieve something worth the effort right away. This is none of those things.
OP and others are completely missing the point. No **** the tb is tuned for future content. The problem is that people can see the writing on the paywall. It’s going to take some serious power creep to make this game mode even moderately enjoyable. Which means more wallet squeezing. Add on the fact that this is the ‘content’ that we’ve been waiting for and people are justifiably angry, because it’s unplayable dreck at the moment. Of course it will be easier later on, but how many people are going to stick around to find out?
Well said. It is about what this TB reveals about CG's plans as much as what it is right now.
I see your side, but I am just pointing out that we have no idea what is next. I struggled with my clones but if I had ARC, I would have 4/4 not 3/4. As I said, in 3 months if they don't release anything new bringing the power up and my guild is still at 7* then maybe the complaints are dead on, but 2 days in and with content designed to make DSGTB easier is a bit premature.
Do what I do, I hold back spending until I see what is next then go full bore. I am getting tired of the tip of the spear comment though as show me 1 mobile game that isn't geared towards the pay to play leaving the free to play behind. This is still the most fun, and free to play friendly there is.
Marketing 101 - Unhappy customers are considerably more likely to post a comment than a satisfied one. This is only my 6-7th post and compared to some, I am less than 1% of what the negative commentators do.
I usually really enjoy TB and figure out ways to maximize my guild’s GP. I have had many other guilds come to me for help with this. (Thinking of starting a service for this). When DS Geo was released my guild was at 118 million and we got 13*. We are now at 157 million and getting 20*. We will get 7* with this one but not even being able to complete a wave in phase 1 is NOT fun. It is horrible design and worst of all it’s working as intended.
I don’t have a lot of extra cash laying around, I was excited about the game with the new TB coming out, the new player experience being improved, and the appearance of a decent direction. So I picked up a $100 in ITunes gift cards from Sam’s (despite that my wife will likely kill me if she finds out) to buy the Y-wing pack for 20 and have some available for stuff coming down the line. I refuse to spend the other 80 on this game because of this crap. Would rather let wife find the other 3 $25 gift cards and deal with the argument as opposed to putting it on my account and be tempted to go ahead and spend it on this game.
" It is horrible design and worst of all it’s working as intended"
This comment has been repeated for every single event that has come out that players could not beat on auto. Same thing over and over again. You want to win every time you play 100%, then play Mario kart 8 (great game btw) on 50cc like my 5 year old and get 1st every time. You want to work for it, then keep playing.
Good job ignoring comments such as Guild is 157 million gp and was looking to get 11-12 stars instead of DS Geo equivalent of 16 and expect 2-3 waves not 4 instead of the not getting even 1 wave completed. Don’t want nor expect auto complete crap with 100% success rate.
Ok. Did you see that the TOP guilds have only done 6-7 stars? did you think 150 mil gp would get you that? if so then you have not been playing long enough. When they put a minimum on their events, always add 50-75% to that just to compete. Malak was min 16 or 17K I believe but unless the RNG gods were smiling, it wasn't happening. and GAS, the min won't get you past ships. My 200 mil gp guild only did 15 in DSGTB in the first few runs and that had an 80 mil GP recommendation.
Sorry your guild didn’t have a decent numbers guy to help you get more. You can pm me and we can arrange me helping you guys out. My 157m gp guild will get the 7. My complaints with CG is their **** poor job of communication and managing expectations/rewards for difficulty not the difficulty in and of itself.
Replies
Maybe instead of saying "We can't do this NOW, it's therefore not WAI and is badly programmed", we instead should be saying "We can't do this YET, if it is WAI then what are we going to get to help us do it?""
What I see differently from you here is that they did not tell us that this would be entirely out of reach for the current endgame level (I mean R7 characters that very few players have managed to get on more than a a handful of characters, and being unable to get to even wave 2 outside of rare cases) even on day 1, which has always been the easiest difficulty.
It was expected that this would be a little more difficult than the dark side territory battles. However, it was not at all expected that even day 1 would be quite a jump in difficulty from even the final day of dark side territory battles, and completely unplayable even with maxed characters in the current state. The leap is just far too large for what the community is comfortable with.
Relics came shortly after gear 13 was introduced, and that really doesn't feel that long ago considering how everyone outside of the largest spenders are still getting the vast majority of their main teams to even gear 13. There was also a very long gap if I remember correctly from gear 11 to being the final level to when they released gear 12, and 12 to 13 didn't feel very quick either and so increasing things again feels very quick, and there has been no previous info about this.
When Hoth TW was released then it was tough, but not completely unplayable for even day 1, so there were not really any complaints from what I remember. Dark Side Geo was very tough when it was released, but not entirely unplayable like lightside currently is, and gear 13 and relics were released shortly later.
So I just don't really see how this situation is comparable to previous situations with the game.
The maths has been done - for a guild to max star LS GeoTB you’d need 50 members with ~12M GP each AND perfect combat scores.
What would DS GeoTB hold for that guild? They might have to pick up 1 wave each on phase 4, but they would be a whisker away from max stars through deployment alone.
In their attempt to future proof this new content, they have signed the death warrant on the previous bit of new content. Guilds will be maxing DS GeoTB LONG before they’re getting close to maxing LS GeoTB.
I'm not sure you've seen the math on just how hard this is. The top 1% will have to double their GP to have the chance (assuming they win every battle and have a 50/50 guild doing the same) to clear it. The only other option is a huge spike in power creep which will certainly cost or take time and makes everything that isn't pvp a joke. Which are you hoping for?
Well i believe your wrong wayyyyyyyyyyy wrong on this IMO just line your IMO. Time will tell
It actually does have me considering it. I've only been playing for 3 years, but I haven't seen any other release that requires the tip of the spear to double their rosters to complete it. Right after they just jumped power in a major way twice.
Take this roster and double it and then join 49 others and you can finish this: https://swgoh.gg/p/291422326/
They did NOTHING to communicate the difficulty. You want to compare this to DS? Let’s do that. 90k NS were able to get through 3 waves of a mission before getting annihilated in phase 1. 95k NS are able to 4/4 the phase 1 missions now. This TB was given 70 million gp as required and 140 million gp recommendation. This TB 100 million gp required and 150 million gp recommendation. THIS communication suggests that 125k squads SHOULD get through 2-3 waves but reality is R4 150k squads are having issues getting to phase 3 and some even not making it through 1 wave.
Now look at rewards, 16* this TB = same rewards as 20* in DS. So if you are able to get 20 there then you can expect about 16 here. Given it’s extra difficulty then lower expectations to 11-12 NOT the 7 we will likely get.
Ok don’t like it go back to Hoth ... sure give me the option to do that FOR THIS TB.
They completely mislead us on purpose. END OF STORY
No one is expecting to get perfect stars right away, but we are expecting (rightly so) a game mode that is actually playable, fun, and possible to achieve something worth the effort right away. This is none of those things.
... if it's so obvious, why are so many people saying I'm wrong?
**shrugs**
Well said. It is about what this TB reveals about CG's plans as much as what it is right now.
I usually really enjoy TB and figure out ways to maximize my guild’s GP. I have had many other guilds come to me for help with this. (Thinking of starting a service for this). When DS Geo was released my guild was at 118 million and we got 13*. We are now at 157 million and getting 20*. We will get 7* with this one but not even being able to complete a wave in phase 1 is NOT fun. It is horrible design and worst of all it’s working as intended.
I don’t have a lot of extra cash laying around, I was excited about the game with the new TB coming out, the new player experience being improved, and the appearance of a decent direction. So I picked up a $100 in ITunes gift cards from Sam’s (despite that my wife will likely kill me if she finds out) to buy the Y-wing pack for 20 and have some available for stuff coming down the line. I refuse to spend the other 80 on this game because of this crap. Would rather let wife find the other 3 $25 gift cards and deal with the argument as opposed to putting it on my account and be tempted to go ahead and spend it on this game.
This.
I'm in a 170m guild, which to my understanding still probably wouldn't max out LS Hoth. So what?
Good job ignoring comments such as Guild is 157 million gp and was looking to get 11-12 stars instead of DS Geo equivalent of 16 and expect 2-3 waves not 4 instead of the not getting even 1 wave completed. Don’t want nor expect auto complete crap with 100% success rate.
Sorry your guild didn’t have a decent numbers guy to help you get more. You can pm me and we can arrange me helping you guys out. My 157m gp guild will get the 7. My complaints with CG is their **** poor job of communication and managing expectations/rewards for difficulty not the difficulty in and of itself.