And GP means nothing. It is the synergy and individual power of teams that matter in TB, GAC, TW and just about every other event, PVP or PVE.
All other points aside, I think TB is maybe the only game mode where GP does matter (outside of matchmaking in GAC, where it is a detriment). I definitely agree large GP doesn't equal a healthy or competitive roster, but TBs require massive GP, even if just deploying, to accomplish anything.
Of course the difficulty is intentional. And of course there’s more character progression in the works. That’s how these types of games work. I’m not sure why there’s three pages of debate about it.
Here’s a couple of points:
First, if character progression slows or stops, the spenders at the tip of the spear have nothing on which to spend, so they very likely will simply stop spending.
Second, most spenders (not just those at the tip of the spear) very likely slow or stop spending when they can complete (or perhaps, easily complete) the most difficult playable content that is currently available. I mean, why would someone keep spending if that continued spending no longer provides continued progression? (Yes, I am aware that true completionists may keep spending even after the available content no longer provides any challenge, just to ‘get everything done’. I did say “most” spenders.)
Third, CG produces the vast majority of the playable content in this game with static difficulty levels. That is, they don’t scale the difficulty of the game modes with the available character progression. Instead, they simply abandon older content and replace it with new content that has a fixed difficulty level beyond the capability of the current character set. Then they release new characters and/or character progression to allow that content to be completed. It’s like an eternal game of leapfrog between character progression and releases of content with static difficulty. This is just a larger leap than we’ve seen in the past. But it certainly isn’t anything new.
And finally, this game is designed to frustrate players into spending. And it appears that the recent releases where the reaction from the playerbase was ‘very obvious frustration’ coincides relatively well with increased revenue for CG. So, while I’d personally like to see a less static (more dynamic) difficulty system implemented in the playable content, and less power creep in general, it’s not likely that CG is going to change how they do things any time soon.
If you boil the frog too fast, it will jump. We see this happening in each upgrade/latest revenue thing in different amounts. Since it's a cascading effect, too many frogs may start jumping if you push it too far. Even the highest gp guild in existence haven't caught up to 2 recent levels of upgrades.
different argument altogether. (communication). We are an old guild with tons of 7* useless toons leveled and geared from early game. Most of us have every toon 7* (except Wat and new ones in the past month) and at least g8, that is why gp really doesn't tell the whole story. Discussion for a different time. My point was that it is WAI and is supposed to be hard now but in a few months, most will have a much different story to tell, unless CG doesn't release the next relic like content to boost power.
That is why I said all other points aside. Those useless 7* dead weight toons are helping your guild in TB every time each of you deploys.
Again, you want a leaner roster for every other part of the game, but in TB it is relevant.
Im with you op. Same outrage with haat and hstr when they came out. A few weeks later and people were soloing/finishing them. Already seeing more success stories in phase 2. Shock horror. I like that its tough and the outrage is massively over the top.
Not quite. Even sith raid, as a guild, most were able to clear it.
Also during HAAT and Sith, the game was fun. There hasnt been any content in months and the first content we do get is a kick in the face. Lots of players leaving now and im on the fence. Its screw up after screw up and everyone is sick of it.
This game actually sucks. Its just not fun and is a huge money drain. Ill be calling to get a refund, personally.
Of course the difficulty is intentional. And of course there’s more character progression in the works. That’s how these types of games work. I’m not sure why there’s three pages of debate about it. [...]
Right now max personal GP that you can achieve is around 7M.
1. Until they increase max GP to ~10M (12M required for max stars), LS Geo TB will remain useless, as LS Hoth will give better rewards,
2. After they increase max GP to 10M, the rest of the PVE content, including freshly minted DS Geo TB, will become trivial.
What you are saying is correct in principle. But the numbers simply don't add up in this case.
Communication has been my argument from the start. They come out and explain the difficulty better from the start, my response would be cool something to work towards but for now my guild and I will go back to Hoth and none of us would be upset about it. Instead, we feel roped in through their lack of managing expectations, get far less rewards, and an overall sense of the devs giving our prep for this a big laugh and the middle finger.
Of course the difficulty is intentional. And of course there’s more character progression in the works. That’s how these types of games work. I’m not sure why there’s three pages of debate about it. [...]
1. Until they increase max GP to ~10M (12M required for max stars), LS Geo TB will remain useless, as LS Hoth will give better rewards, ...
Just a quick reply to your statement regarding rewards... If you and your guild believe that Hoth provides better rewards, there’s certainly no shame in doing Hoth. Personally, I think the difference in GET2 makes Hoth less appealing.
IMO the main issue isn't the difficulty but rather that the rewards are significantly worse than the DSTB for the difficulty level. Every single guild out there is gonna be getting significantly less rewards from the LS than they do from the DS.
IMO the main issue isn't the difficulty but rather that the rewards are significantly worse than the DSTB for the difficulty level. Every single guild out there is gonna be getting significantly less rewards from the LS than they do from the DS.
Shouldn’t its difficulty/rewards be compared to what it’s replacing (Hoth)?
IMO the main issue isn't the difficulty but rather that the rewards are significantly worse than the DSTB for the difficulty level. Every single guild out there is gonna be getting significantly less rewards from the LS than they do from the DS.
Shouldn’t its difficulty/rewards be compared to what it’s replacing (Hoth)?
What it is replacing is the Geo DSTB, that is what has been in this slot for like 6 months.
IMO the main issue isn't the difficulty but rather that the rewards are significantly worse than the DSTB for the difficulty level. Every single guild out there is gonna be getting significantly less rewards from the LS than they do from the DS.
Shouldn’t its difficulty/rewards be compared to what it’s replacing (Hoth)?
In an ideal world, yes, but the long lag between DS Geo and LS Geo, and the ability to do 2x DS Geo in the interim has made users accustomed to the DS Geo rewards in this spot.
For a customer perspective, LS Geo is replacing DS Geo and not LS Hoth, because most of those players haven't played LS Hoth in nearly 6 months.
If you boil the frog too fast, it will jump. We see this happening in each upgrade/latest revenue thing in different amounts. Since it's a cascading effect, too many frogs may start jumping if you push it too far. Even the highest gp guild in existence haven't caught up to 2 recent levels of upgrades.
EXACTLY. The top guilds have to work now too. That is what will keep them here. If it is too easy for them, then you start to have problems at the level of player keeping this game alive for the free to play and fish. My 100-200 a month is certainly not going to keep the game afloat. It is the top tier guilds spending 500+ a month.
My argument is the reverse of that. The developers haven't even given spenders enough benefit of excessive spending over the last 2 levels of upgrades yet. We have a new movie coming out which will introduce new hard to grab things and a raid is planned in near future. Now if this new tb is to be dealt with even further upgrades that will be a break point for many spenders imo.
It's all a matter of pace, it's not like ds geo is trumped, a much lesser hardship over it for ls would do the -things to look for- trick fine. It's not like the rewards are that great either.
I really hope they rework/buff the Galactic Republic Jedi that have been around since game launch 4 years ago, to help us with this TB that is specifically generated around them.
Does anyone remember when GG was reworked and everyone was really intrigued about his damage output being based on his Max Health so people Modded him to have as much Max Health as possible and weren't impressed with the results?
People were upset. They were spamming the forums and moaning that CG had misled them over his new power level. Then a few months later, we got Relics and the complaints went away.
Now coming forward a bit, people complained about the difficulty of the new DS Geo Territory Battle when it first came out and today are moaning about the difficulty of the newer LS Geo Territory Battle. But maybe it's just the same pattern?
CG have told us that these Territory Battles are supposed to be "End Game Content" and maybe their intention is not just to have it as "End Game Content" for a few months until players crack it and then go back to complaining there is nothing to do; maybe CG's intention is to have these new Territory Battles remain "End Game Content" for many months, maybe even a year?
If that's the case, they don't want us completing it perfectly right away. They want us struggling with it and every time a new update / character / new feature comes along, we collectively start doing a little better. And slowly we build up to complete this End Game Content rather than ace it right from the word go.
Maybe instead of saying "We can't do this NOW, it's therefore not WAI and is badly programmed", we instead should be saying "We can't do this YET, if it is WAI then what are we going to get to help us do it?"
FINALLY someone understands what end game content means, good on you lad
I really hope they rework/buff the Galactic Republic Jedi that have been around since game launch 4 years ago, to help us with this TB that is specifically generated around them.
Except they have already said they are done with this era for the time being. So likely not to happen for 6+ months.
Guilds that are approx 175-180m can get 10-12 stars on their GP alone. Just takes some math. /shrug
And the rewards for that is about 300 gems and 4k GET2. Way better than Hoth.
I would really like to see your math on this one
Edit: Just did some quick math and I am really only seeing 9* based on GP alone for a 180 m guild *assuming 100m Character and 80 m Fleet* (obviously this could change slightly up or down based on actual gp breakdown, but I based it off of a similar ratio to my 175m guild)
I see 2* in the first two ship zones, 2* in each of the Phase 1 squad zones, and then a star in Phase 2 middle.
Do you think that, just maybe, the fixes were implemented because of the complaining?
I'm not talking about the obvious mistakes in the Territory Battle like "doing A does not unlock B even though it's supposed to", I'm talking about the difficulty of them. I'm saying it's quite possibly intentionally more difficult than we can handle right now because of what they have lined up for the future.
They just stated that is not the case. It’s this miserable on purpose with no new progression coming.
Replies
All other points aside, I think TB is maybe the only game mode where GP does matter (outside of matchmaking in GAC, where it is a detriment). I definitely agree large GP doesn't equal a healthy or competitive roster, but TBs require massive GP, even if just deploying, to accomplish anything.
Here’s a couple of points:
First, if character progression slows or stops, the spenders at the tip of the spear have nothing on which to spend, so they very likely will simply stop spending.
Second, most spenders (not just those at the tip of the spear) very likely slow or stop spending when they can complete (or perhaps, easily complete) the most difficult playable content that is currently available. I mean, why would someone keep spending if that continued spending no longer provides continued progression? (Yes, I am aware that true completionists may keep spending even after the available content no longer provides any challenge, just to ‘get everything done’. I did say “most” spenders.)
Third, CG produces the vast majority of the playable content in this game with static difficulty levels. That is, they don’t scale the difficulty of the game modes with the available character progression. Instead, they simply abandon older content and replace it with new content that has a fixed difficulty level beyond the capability of the current character set. Then they release new characters and/or character progression to allow that content to be completed. It’s like an eternal game of leapfrog between character progression and releases of content with static difficulty. This is just a larger leap than we’ve seen in the past. But it certainly isn’t anything new.
And finally, this game is designed to frustrate players into spending. And it appears that the recent releases where the reaction from the playerbase was ‘very obvious frustration’ coincides relatively well with increased revenue for CG. So, while I’d personally like to see a less static (more dynamic) difficulty system implemented in the playable content, and less power creep in general, it’s not likely that CG is going to change how they do things any time soon.
That is why I said all other points aside. Those useless 7* dead weight toons are helping your guild in TB every time each of you deploys.
Again, you want a leaner roster for every other part of the game, but in TB it is relevant.
So then leave. No one's stopping you.
Right now max personal GP that you can achieve is around 7M.
1. Until they increase max GP to ~10M (12M required for max stars), LS Geo TB will remain useless, as LS Hoth will give better rewards,
2. After they increase max GP to 10M, the rest of the PVE content, including freshly minted DS Geo TB, will become trivial.
What you are saying is correct in principle. But the numbers simply don't add up in this case.
Just a quick reply to your statement regarding rewards... If you and your guild believe that Hoth provides better rewards, there’s certainly no shame in doing Hoth. Personally, I think the difference in GET2 makes Hoth less appealing.
Shouldn’t its difficulty/rewards be compared to what it’s replacing (Hoth)?
What it is replacing is the Geo DSTB, that is what has been in this slot for like 6 months.
In an ideal world, yes, but the long lag between DS Geo and LS Geo, and the ability to do 2x DS Geo in the interim has made users accustomed to the DS Geo rewards in this spot.
For a customer perspective, LS Geo is replacing DS Geo and not LS Hoth, because most of those players haven't played LS Hoth in nearly 6 months.
My argument is the reverse of that. The developers haven't even given spenders enough benefit of excessive spending over the last 2 levels of upgrades yet. We have a new movie coming out which will introduce new hard to grab things and a raid is planned in near future. Now if this new tb is to be dealt with even further upgrades that will be a break point for many spenders imo.
It's all a matter of pace, it's not like ds geo is trumped, a much lesser hardship over it for ls would do the -things to look for- trick fine. It's not like the rewards are that great either.
FINALLY someone understands what end game content means, good on you lad
Except they have already said they are done with this era for the time being. So likely not to happen for 6+ months.
And the rewards for that is about 300 gems and 4k GET2. Way better than Hoth.
I would really like to see your math on this one
Edit: Just did some quick math and I am really only seeing 9* based on GP alone for a 180 m guild *assuming 100m Character and 80 m Fleet* (obviously this could change slightly up or down based on actual gp breakdown, but I based it off of a similar ratio to my 175m guild)
I see 2* in the first two ship zones, 2* in each of the Phase 1 squad zones, and then a star in Phase 2 middle.
In LS Geo? Have you actually done the math?
I'm in a 170m guild. I think 7-8 stars is our likely outcome, looking at the star thresholds.
Are you forgetting about fleet gp being included in the total gp? Or are you talking about guild’s that have 175-180m char GP?
They just stated that is not the case. It’s this miserable on purpose with no new progression coming.