An interesting switch in defining a meta.
October 27, 2020 11:18PM
edited October 2020
It’s clear that there has been a fundamental shift in how CG cultivates the meta. Before these last two GLs, it was almost a given that the new hard to get characters would replace the previous meta characters in arena. In this last case it appears that they decided to do the exact opposite. The new GLs are not horrible by any means but the are certainly a tier lower than Rey and Kylo, this is especially true of SEE. It makes me wonder, why would anyone ever spend the get the new GLs again? They are for sure a big cash generator, at least used to be. Do you think this is intended to slow down power creep? Is this a misstep or actually good for the game?
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The new Gls were stated to be on par with the old ones, so they were never intended to replace them.
Is a rock paper scissors meta good for the game, yes. Although it's more indifferent than anything, it's just different.
Is this a way to dampen power creep..... it's a little early to say, since we have been told they are watching this and at least one of them is of the opinion that changes may need to be made.
Why would anyone spend, is more of a personal question and can only be answered by each player. Again, a little early to start this, see above.
JML is very good against people who hit auto but he's horribly controlled against teams that can go around him with JKR or shock or stuff like this.
This. Power creep rewards those that obtain the newest stuff, whether by paying or by resource management.
Agreed JML just needs his ult fixed, badly
No one uses his in lead and his ult is useless to ever use in any game mode. It isn't worth the 7500 GP to spend the mats on to upgrade it.
Stop playing and come back in 10 years, you will still have the best squad in the game and there will be 10.000 players with 10.000 SLKR squads
This
Only reason to get one of the new GL is you don’t have any GL, and you like Palp or Luke.
Well don’t forget we , the players, have to beta test the new GL. But i agree it doesn’t matter if we test it. You can’t charge his ult if he’s not the leader. So pretty much useless.
That's why I'm getting palps, also not wanting to gear up rose and holdo and I've never bothered to unlock the SF tie pilot because what's the point.
No, my arena is full of luke ulti lead. Correctly modded I can assure you he goes on ulti very quickly
But unlike slkr and rey he needs good mod and proper modding. Which is good
Or maybe, like with Sidious, maxed SEE will be required to get the next GL so it's okay for him (as with Sidious) to be weak since he'd just be a resource dumpster. Who knows. But this is certainly very different from previous releases of major toons, and for many people it makes little sense to chase after these toons and is probably a lot smarter to wait for the real meta shift to arrive rather than chase relevance in an old meta.
I don't get that logic, seems to me more of a hyperbole. If this was the case you would be only developing the latest meta team and nothing else.
I'm sure I'll get 3/4 GLs & maybe 4/4. Why? Those factions need improvement over time anyway, so why not collect the GL while we're at it? The only thing stopping me from collecting SEE at all would be if a new GL was released before I got SEE, and he was demoted to "desirable, but have to wait a bit longer". Theoretically that could happen multiple times, but I'm not really worried about it. There's going to come a time when boosting Empire makes sense, and there are several sith who have long been on my "desirable, but have to wait a bit longer" list. There's got to come a day where they hit the top of list, and then I'll pick up SEE as well.
What? No. If everyone on your Arena shard was running SLKR, you just run JML & race up the ladder to take #1 that much easier than another mirror match.
Plus they also have the option of squad power creep without toon power creep. Add a toon with the right kit & synergies to resistance and Rey becomes very difficult to beat by SLKR without releasing any toons that are outright more powerful than SLKR. Suddenly Palp, who has an easier time with Rey, becomes necessary.
Not only would too much of one GL naturally tempt people to grab a GL counter to that squad, but no power creep in toons could still allow power creep in squads, which allows a shift in the power to rebalance and encourages players to use a different toon for most Arena purposes.
GLs were a huge power jump. We can't have ongoing power creep from these new heights, at least not anytime soon. But power creep of non-GL toons can continue, and sometime in the future when it's more reasonable (certainly not before March 2021, preferably not before Jun 2021) they can start thinking about a pair of GLs that provide a small amount of power creep again.
And, of course, on top of all that, there's power creep from 6A mods (and eventually 7A mods) & possibly "Relic Abilities" which CG has mentioned before as a possibility.
Even if there was no "power creep" in the sense of a single new toon that was decisively better than SLKR, you would still come back 10 years later and find yourself hopelessly behind & in desperate need of new toons & new resources for new upgrades.
They used the term "similar power level", yet nowhere gave us the impression that certain GLs can't beat others. To cut to the chase; what is the point going for SEE when 80% of your arena shard is SLKR? Why shouldn't you expect the recently released GL to be able to at least beat the other GLs? The two prievous GLs were able to.
If the whole idea was a "rock paper scissor" meta in arena, shouldn't we at least be told it was something they were aiming for with these 4 GLs?
Isn't SEE ripping through JML & Rey? I understand that SEE can't beat SLKR, but that doesn't mean he isn't part of a crosslinked meta. Even if all 3 other GLs can beat him, he can beat 2 of the 3 other GLs, which means that when you're getting your 2 GLs (minimum) to make sure you can rotate through them to get the right one in the right fight so you can climb Arena ranks, SEE is one viable option. It seems to me that if you had JML & SEE you could pick your team and beat any of the 4 GLs at your whim, no SLKR needed.
That doesn't mean that SLKR isn't the best (he is) or that JML + SEE is the best choice when picking only 2 (I don't know which two form the best pair, but it would have to include SLKR in my opinion), but SEE is still able to rip through JML & Rey, and for that reason he must be considered part of the current crosslinked meta.
The fact that he can be soloed by Kylo, and for See is very difficult to counter this team, the fact that we use teams mostly consisting of toons which were not suggested by DEVs to counter Luke, Rey, Kylo and at the same time recommended toons for other GLs do well, as it was designed by Devs hints that he should be somehow fixed. Because he doesn't work as expected.
Since when was it intended for two GLs in arena to be a requirement to climb? Certainly not shared with us by CG. The previous GLs could counter each other. If we were to expect some GLs not to be able to counter another, why were we not told this in advance? Why have to gamble for the GL you go for being able to beat the dominant team (in number of squads) in arena?
The idea of choosing which GL you like and go for that one, was raised for us. Not a requirement of having to have several GLs.
Ever since people started talking about "rock, paper, scissors" meta. Obviously Rock does not counter Rock. Sure, you could beat rock with rock (not in RPS, but in SWGOH), but there have been plenty of times when mirror matches didn't go well, or weren't guaranteed to go well, including not only times when you lose a mirror match but also when MMs time out.
You don't have to get 2 different GLs, but if you get one GL as your primary & one GL that counters your primary, then you never have to fight a mirror match & your climb will be more efficient.
R-P-S is a metaphor, but in its original form it implies you have to have all three since you never know what squad you'll find in the #1 spot. As it works in SWGOH you just have to have 2 if you want to climb efficiently - but you do need two. My Rey, for instance, clobbers SLKR squads, but I time out a frustrating amount of the time against other Reys. It's not that I can't win, but it's sure a lot more frustrating than I'd like it to be.
So, yes. Two different GLs for efficient Arena climbs has been implied since the beginning, though you don't have to climb efficiently or easily if you don't want to do so.
If you're going for your first GL, you shouldn't try for anyone other than SLKR. But for subsequent GLs, SEE is certainly an option. It really depends on your priorities.
I'm not claiming that SEE is as good as SLKR. I'm merely claiming that SEE has its place in the R-P-S meta of the moment.
I don't have a GL and I'm farming for SEE, everything that's happened since the new GL's were released hasn't changed my mind about getting him because I never wanted to gear up who was needed for either kylo or rey. Plus I already had 4 of the requirements relic'd (just not high enough) for getting SEE.
JML would've been a possibility, except that I don't even have wampa unlocked, so getting JKL would take me ages to get anyway.
I also farm See as it's the closest Gl for me, but i just had a look at swgoh data and saw how unpopular is SEE now: 241 farmed Palp against 1975 Luke, taking into account that Luke is the most expensive Gl for today. So maybe his "place in the R-P-S meta of the moment" is underestimated by most players ).
That would be true if the current GLs were:
1- going to be the last GLs released
2- going to be the last toons released
At any point down the line they could release a non GL that supports or raises one up just enough to be ahead of the others, or at least a few.
I mean we already see JML giving SLKR trouble.
No they dont "need to be better than the old", and they were never stated to be.
They are also keeping an eye on the situation.