Kyno
You said it was an odd question to pose...enjoyment. Is this not a game? Is it not meant for enjoyment?
Oh I see, no I didnt say that.
I was saying it's an odd correlation to make, trying to correlate a specific mechanic to enjoyment.
You can enjoy a raid and feel good about beating it, but not be "enjoying" a mechanic. I just found it an odd way to phrase the question.
Players dont "enjoy" stacking tenacity on the Sith raid, but it made it a new and difficult puzzle to solve, and player do enjoy beating the raid.
Elements can be added to the game to make things different or difficult or other things, but not necessarily done for that specific thing to drive "enjoyment", it's just piece of the whole, and sometimes that goal can be quite enjoyable.
Kyno
You said it was an odd question to pose...enjoyment. Is this not a game? Is it not meant for enjoyment?
Oh I see, no I didnt say that.
I was saying it's an odd correlation to make, trying to correlate a specific mechanic to enjoyment.
You can enjoy a raid and feel good about beating it, but not be "enjoying" a mechanic. I just found it an odd way to phrase the question.
Players dont "enjoy" stacking tenacity on the Sith raid, but it made it a new and difficult puzzle to solve, and player do enjoy beating the raid.
Elements can be added to the game to make things different or difficult or other things, but not necessarily done for that specific thing to drive "enjoyment", it's just piece of the whole, and sometimes that goal can be quite enjoyable.
Lol at comparing stacking tenacity tied to individual runs to universally stacking 75% offense/speed per 20% health lost and 50 Armor Penetration and 10% Critical Chance, Critical Damage, and Potency (stacking) per each turn
Kyno
You said it was an odd question to pose...enjoyment. Is this not a game? Is it not meant for enjoyment?
Oh I see, no I didnt say that.
I was saying it's an odd correlation to make, trying to correlate a specific mechanic to enjoyment.
You can enjoy a raid and feel good about beating it, but not be "enjoying" a mechanic. I just found it an odd way to phrase the question.
Players dont "enjoy" stacking tenacity on the Sith raid, but it made it a new and difficult puzzle to solve, and player do enjoy beating the raid.
Elements can be added to the game to make things different or difficult or other things, but not necessarily done for that specific thing to drive "enjoyment", it's just piece of the whole, and sometimes that goal can be quite enjoyable.
Lol at comparing stacking tenacity tied to individual runs to universally stacking 75% offense/speed per 20% health lost and 50 Armor Penetration and 10% Critical Chance, Critical Damage, and Potency (stacking) per each turn
I was comparing an individual element in an event to an individual element in an event, for the purpose of discussing what we are discussing, not comparing them to each other on any merit.
If you want to discuss something off the topic of what is being discussed that's fine, but do it somewhere else.
Kyno
You said it was an odd question to pose...enjoyment. Is this not a game? Is it not meant for enjoyment?
Oh I see, no I didnt say that.
I was saying it's an odd correlation to make, trying to correlate a specific mechanic to enjoyment.
You can enjoy a raid and feel good about beating it, but not be "enjoying" a mechanic. I just found it an odd way to phrase the question.
Players dont "enjoy" stacking tenacity on the Sith raid, but it made it a new and difficult puzzle to solve, and player do enjoy beating the raid.
Elements can be added to the game to make things different or difficult or other things, but not necessarily done for that specific thing to drive "enjoyment", it's just piece of the whole, and sometimes that goal can be quite enjoyable.
Lol at comparing stacking tenacity tied to individual runs to universally stacking 75% offense/speed per 20% health lost and 50 Armor Penetration and 10% Critical Chance, Critical Damage, and Potency (stacking) per each turn
I was comparing an individual element in an event to an individual element in an event, for the purpose of discussing what we are discussing, not comparing them to each other on any merit.
If you want to discuss something off the topic of what is being discussed that's fine, but do it somewhere else.
Ummm what? No you’re saying people got over the stacking tenacity which isn’t comparable to these stacking mechanics in this raid. But please, continue
Kyno
You said it was an odd question to pose...enjoyment. Is this not a game? Is it not meant for enjoyment?
Oh I see, no I didnt say that.
I was saying it's an odd correlation to make, trying to correlate a specific mechanic to enjoyment.
You can enjoy a raid and feel good about beating it, but not be "enjoying" a mechanic. I just found it an odd way to phrase the question.
Players dont "enjoy" stacking tenacity on the Sith raid, but it made it a new and difficult puzzle to solve, and player do enjoy beating the raid.
Elements can be added to the game to make things different or difficult or other things, but not necessarily done for that specific thing to drive "enjoyment", it's just piece of the whole, and sometimes that goal can be quite enjoyable.
Lol at comparing stacking tenacity tied to individual runs to universally stacking 75% offense/speed per 20% health lost and 50 Armor Penetration and 10% Critical Chance, Critical Damage, and Potency (stacking) per each turn
I was comparing an individual element in an event to an individual element in an event, for the purpose of discussing what we are discussing, not comparing them to each other on any merit.
If you want to discuss something off the topic of what is being discussed that's fine, but do it somewhere else.
Ummm what? No you’re saying people got over the stacking tenacity which isn’t comparable to these stacking mechanics in this raid. But please, continue
Kyno
You said it was an odd question to pose...enjoyment. Is this not a game? Is it not meant for enjoyment?
Oh I see, no I didnt say that.
I was saying it's an odd correlation to make, trying to correlate a specific mechanic to enjoyment.
You can enjoy a raid and feel good about beating it, but not be "enjoying" a mechanic. I just found it an odd way to phrase the question.
Players dont "enjoy" stacking tenacity on the Sith raid, but it made it a new and difficult puzzle to solve, and player do enjoy beating the raid.
Elements can be added to the game to make things different or difficult or other things, but not necessarily done for that specific thing to drive "enjoyment", it's just piece of the whole, and sometimes that goal can be quite enjoyable.
Lol at comparing stacking tenacity tied to individual runs to universally stacking 75% offense/speed per 20% health lost and 50 Armor Penetration and 10% Critical Chance, Critical Damage, and Potency (stacking) per each turn
I was comparing an individual element in an event to an individual element in an event, for the purpose of discussing what we are discussing, not comparing them to each other on any merit.
If you want to discuss something off the topic of what is being discussed that's fine, but do it somewhere else.
Ummm what? No you’re saying people got over the stacking tenacity which isn’t comparable to these stacking mechanics in this raid. But please, continue
Nope that's not what I said.
Then stay on topic. I really don’t understand why you’re taking this doomed stance for the Crancor raid. Nothing you say will make people enjoy/understand/accept the horrible universal stacking mechanic for the raid. No past events, no previous issues. This is the current issue. And it’s one that they’re intentionally ignoring and one that I hope costs them plenty of Money so they get off of cruise control and actually do something to improve their game. This new conquest mode isn’t enough to deter from their junk challenge rancor raid. The mechanics need to be fixed, otherwise it’ll set a precedent. And their precedent as it stands is hot dog doo doo
Kyno
You said it was an odd question to pose...enjoyment. Is this not a game? Is it not meant for enjoyment?
Oh I see, no I didnt say that.
I was saying it's an odd correlation to make, trying to correlate a specific mechanic to enjoyment.
You can enjoy a raid and feel good about beating it, but not be "enjoying" a mechanic. I just found it an odd way to phrase the question.
Players dont "enjoy" stacking tenacity on the Sith raid, but it made it a new and difficult puzzle to solve, and player do enjoy beating the raid.
Elements can be added to the game to make things different or difficult or other things, but not necessarily done for that specific thing to drive "enjoyment", it's just piece of the whole, and sometimes that goal can be quite enjoyable.
Lol at comparing stacking tenacity tied to individual runs to universally stacking 75% offense/speed per 20% health lost and 50 Armor Penetration and 10% Critical Chance, Critical Damage, and Potency (stacking) per each turn
I was comparing an individual element in an event to an individual element in an event, for the purpose of discussing what we are discussing, not comparing them to each other on any merit.
If you want to discuss something off the topic of what is being discussed that's fine, but do it somewhere else.
Ummm what? No you’re saying people got over the stacking tenacity which isn’t comparable to these stacking mechanics in this raid. But please, continue
Nope that's not what I said.
Then stay on topic. I really don’t understand why you’re taking this doomed stance for the Crancor raid. Nothing you say will make people enjoy/understand/accept the horrible universal stacking mechanic for the raid. No past events, no previous issues. This is the current issue. And it’s one that they’re intentionally ignoring and one that I hope costs them plenty of Money so they get off of cruise control and actually do something to improve their game. This new conquest mode isn’t enough to deter from their junk challenge rancor raid. The mechanics need to be fixed, otherwise it’ll set a precedent. And their precedent as it stands is hot dog doo doo
I wasnt trying to make people understand or accept it. I was answering a question posed. I also pointed out that it was an odd question to pose. You took it in a different way and tried to spin it to be what you are saying here about "enjoying" a mechanic.
Do you enjoy 12 minute timer on energy??
The point is mechanics are not necessarily in place as a point of "enjoyment" they are there to serve a purpose and from that purpose being filled player derive enjoyment.
In the end if they changed everything around it so that all the purposes were filled (in raid) but the coordination and timing aspects were not necessary, no one would be talking about how they "enjoy" whatever new stuff is put in to make that happen. Liking or enjoying the raid more due to the "undesirable parts" not being present is different, then "enjoying" those new mechanics.
Kyno
You said it was an odd question to pose...enjoyment. Is this not a game? Is it not meant for enjoyment?
Oh I see, no I didnt say that.
I was saying it's an odd correlation to make, trying to correlate a specific mechanic to enjoyment.
You can enjoy a raid and feel good about beating it, but not be "enjoying" a mechanic. I just found it an odd way to phrase the question.
Players dont "enjoy" stacking tenacity on the Sith raid, but it made it a new and difficult puzzle to solve, and player do enjoy beating the raid.
Elements can be added to the game to make things different or difficult or other things, but not necessarily done for that specific thing to drive "enjoyment", it's just piece of the whole, and sometimes that goal can be quite enjoyable.
Lol at comparing stacking tenacity tied to individual runs to universally stacking 75% offense/speed per 20% health lost and 50 Armor Penetration and 10% Critical Chance, Critical Damage, and Potency (stacking) per each turn
I was comparing an individual element in an event to an individual element in an event, for the purpose of discussing what we are discussing, not comparing them to each other on any merit.
If you want to discuss something off the topic of what is being discussed that's fine, but do it somewhere else.
Ummm what? No you’re saying people got over the stacking tenacity which isn’t comparable to these stacking mechanics in this raid. But please, continue
Nope that's not what I said.
Then stay on topic. I really don’t understand why you’re taking this doomed stance for the Crancor raid. Nothing you say will make people enjoy/understand/accept the horrible universal stacking mechanic for the raid. No past events, no previous issues. This is the current issue. And it’s one that they’re intentionally ignoring and one that I hope costs them plenty of Money so they get off of cruise control and actually do something to improve their game. This new conquest mode isn’t enough to deter from their junk challenge rancor raid. The mechanics need to be fixed, otherwise it’ll set a precedent. And their precedent as it stands is hot dog doo doo
I wasnt trying to make people understand or accept it. I was answering a question posed. I also pointed out that it was an odd question to pose. You took it in a different way and tried to spin it to be what you are saying here about "enjoying" a mechanic.
Do you enjoy 12 minute timer on energy??
The point is mechanics are not necessarily in place as a point of "enjoyment" they are there to serve a purpose and from that purpose being filled player derive enjoyment.
In the end if they changed everything around it so that all the purposes were filled (in raid) but the coordination and timing aspects were not necessary, no one would be talking about how they "enjoy" whatever new stuff is put in to make that happen. Liking or enjoying the raid more due to the "undesirable parts" not being present is different, then "enjoying" those new mechanics.
How is a mechanic that directly ties to gameplay relevant with timer durations? Talk about off topic, needs some moderation. Yes, mechanics often go beyond purpose/necessity and can contribute to enjoyment. This particular mechanic creates the opposite of enjoyment for everyone involved. For a good amount of people the mechanic itself deletes the enjoyment that can be possibly gotten out of the rest of the deal. i.e. if this was not a stressed rush deal I would enjoy the new hard state of the raid doing it on my own pace and not connected to an absurd time I need to be present, get done with it and go back to sleep.
Kyno
You said it was an odd question to pose...enjoyment. Is this not a game? Is it not meant for enjoyment?
Oh I see, no I didnt say that.
I was saying it's an odd correlation to make, trying to correlate a specific mechanic to enjoyment.
You can enjoy a raid and feel good about beating it, but not be "enjoying" a mechanic. I just found it an odd way to phrase the question.
Players dont "enjoy" stacking tenacity on the Sith raid, but it made it a new and difficult puzzle to solve, and player do enjoy beating the raid.
Elements can be added to the game to make things different or difficult or other things, but not necessarily done for that specific thing to drive "enjoyment", it's just piece of the whole, and sometimes that goal can be quite enjoyable.
Lol at comparing stacking tenacity tied to individual runs to universally stacking 75% offense/speed per 20% health lost and 50 Armor Penetration and 10% Critical Chance, Critical Damage, and Potency (stacking) per each turn
I was comparing an individual element in an event to an individual element in an event, for the purpose of discussing what we are discussing, not comparing them to each other on any merit.
If you want to discuss something off the topic of what is being discussed that's fine, but do it somewhere else.
Ummm what? No you’re saying people got over the stacking tenacity which isn’t comparable to these stacking mechanics in this raid. But please, continue
Nope that's not what I said.
Then stay on topic. I really don’t understand why you’re taking this doomed stance for the Crancor raid. Nothing you say will make people enjoy/understand/accept the horrible universal stacking mechanic for the raid. No past events, no previous issues. This is the current issue. And it’s one that they’re intentionally ignoring and one that I hope costs them plenty of Money so they get off of cruise control and actually do something to improve their game. This new conquest mode isn’t enough to deter from their junk challenge rancor raid. The mechanics need to be fixed, otherwise it’ll set a precedent. And their precedent as it stands is hot dog doo doo
I wasnt trying to make people understand or accept it. I was answering a question posed. I also pointed out that it was an odd question to pose. You took it in a different way and tried to spin it to be what you are saying here about "enjoying" a mechanic.
Do you enjoy 12 minute timer on energy??
The point is mechanics are not necessarily in place as a point of "enjoyment" they are there to serve a purpose and from that purpose being filled player derive enjoyment.
In the end if they changed everything around it so that all the purposes were filled (in raid) but the coordination and timing aspects were not necessary, no one would be talking about how they "enjoy" whatever new stuff is put in to make that happen. Liking or enjoying the raid more due to the "undesirable parts" not being present is different, then "enjoying" those new mechanics.
How is a mechanic that directly ties to gameplay relevant with timer durations? Talk about off topic, needs some moderation. Yes, mechanics often go beyond purpose/necessity and can contribute to enjoyment. This particular mechanic creates the opposite of enjoyment for everyone involved. For a good amount of people the mechanic itself deletes the enjoyment that can be possibly gotten out of the rest of the deal. i.e. if this was not a stressed rush deal I would enjoy the new hard state of the raid doing it on my own pace and not connected to an absurd time I need to be present, get done with it and go back to sleep.
The root mechanic is not the part that players would look at to "enjoy" but does give the derived sense of enjoyment when we complete a goal that was paced by said root mechanic. Similar to the raid.
As I said if they added/changed a set of mechanics to serve the same purposes they want in the raid, but players didnt have the need to time and coordinate runs, no one would be "enjoying" those mechanics. You may enjoy playing or the raid more.
I discussed the topic and just made an aside that it was an odd way to pose the question, because players dont directly enjoy mechanics, and therefore wouldnt come here to say it in that way. That took a life of it's own as people wanted to make it seem like I was saying something I was not.
Not sure if the icon was added just recentely (never paid attention, I just knew that there's a mastery decrease going on as passice mechanic) but it's clearly stated in the bosses (Gam Guard and Rancor) unique "Pit Fighter II" and counts for all chars, tripled for GL's.
The mastery decreased icon was always this triangle.
Kyno
You said it was an odd question to pose...enjoyment. Is this not a game? Is it not meant for enjoyment?
Oh I see, no I didnt say that.
I was saying it's an odd correlation to make, trying to correlate a specific mechanic to enjoyment.
You can enjoy a raid and feel good about beating it, but not be "enjoying" a mechanic. I just found it an odd way to phrase the question.
Players dont "enjoy" stacking tenacity on the Sith raid, but it made it a new and difficult puzzle to solve, and player do enjoy beating the raid.
Elements can be added to the game to make things different or difficult or other things, but not necessarily done for that specific thing to drive "enjoyment", it's just piece of the whole, and sometimes that goal can be quite enjoyable.
Lol at comparing stacking tenacity tied to individual runs to universally stacking 75% offense/speed per 20% health lost and 50 Armor Penetration and 10% Critical Chance, Critical Damage, and Potency (stacking) per each turn
I was comparing an individual element in an event to an individual element in an event, for the purpose of discussing what we are discussing, not comparing them to each other on any merit.
If you want to discuss something off the topic of what is being discussed that's fine, but do it somewhere else.
Ummm what? No you’re saying people got over the stacking tenacity which isn’t comparable to these stacking mechanics in this raid. But please, continue
Nope that's not what I said.
Then stay on topic. I really don’t understand why you’re taking this doomed stance for the Crancor raid. Nothing you say will make people enjoy/understand/accept the horrible universal stacking mechanic for the raid. No past events, no previous issues. This is the current issue. And it’s one that they’re intentionally ignoring and one that I hope costs them plenty of Money so they get off of cruise control and actually do something to improve their game. This new conquest mode isn’t enough to deter from their junk challenge rancor raid. The mechanics need to be fixed, otherwise it’ll set a precedent. And their precedent as it stands is hot dog doo doo
I wasnt trying to make people understand or accept it. I was answering a question posed. I also pointed out that it was an odd question to pose. You took it in a different way and tried to spin it to be what you are saying here about "enjoying" a mechanic.
Do you enjoy 12 minute timer on energy??
The point is mechanics are not necessarily in place as a point of "enjoyment" they are there to serve a purpose and from that purpose being filled player derive enjoyment.
In the end if they changed everything around it so that all the purposes were filled (in raid) but the coordination and timing aspects were not necessary, no one would be talking about how they "enjoy" whatever new stuff is put in to make that happen. Liking or enjoying the raid more due to the "undesirable parts" not being present is different, then "enjoying" those new mechanics.
How is a mechanic that directly ties to gameplay relevant with timer durations? Talk about off topic, needs some moderation. Yes, mechanics often go beyond purpose/necessity and can contribute to enjoyment. This particular mechanic creates the opposite of enjoyment for everyone involved. For a good amount of people the mechanic itself deletes the enjoyment that can be possibly gotten out of the rest of the deal. i.e. if this was not a stressed rush deal I would enjoy the new hard state of the raid doing it on my own pace and not connected to an absurd time I need to be present, get done with it and go back to sleep.
The root mechanic is not the part that players would look at to "enjoy" but does give the derived sense of enjoyment when we complete a goal that was paced by said root mechanic. Similar to the raid.
As I said if they added/changed a set of mechanics to serve the same purposes they want in the raid, but players didnt have the need to time and coordinate runs, no one would be "enjoying" those mechanics. You may enjoy playing or the raid more.
I discussed the topic and just made an aside that it was an odd way to pose the question, because players dont directly enjoy mechanics, and therefore wouldnt come here to say it in that way. That took a life of it's own as people wanted to make it seem like I was saying something I was not.
This discussion seems to be getting very meta... consider me lost XD
Kyno, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "players don't directly enjoy mechanics". Can I try to take this quote out of the context of the raid to see if I understand you?
I like using MM, zPao, HRS, Bistan, Lando vs bugs these days. The TM train, caused by the combination of these characters' mechanics, allows me to take a few dozen turns before the bugs take 1. I thoroughly enjoy this because I feel like I'm beating the bugs at their own game (TM train and mass assists).
Are you saying I don't enjoy the mechanics but rather the result of them?
Not sure if the icon was added just recentely (never paid attention, I just knew that there's a mastery decrease going on as passice mechanic) but it's clearly stated in the bosses (Gam Guard and Rancor) unique "Pit Fighter II" and counts for all chars, tripled for GL's.
The mastery decreased icon was always this triangle.
Yeah,
What I meant was that this icon wasn’t in the rancor raid before even though the raid boss decreased mastery
Kyno
You said it was an odd question to pose...enjoyment. Is this not a game? Is it not meant for enjoyment?
Oh I see, no I didnt say that.
I was saying it's an odd correlation to make, trying to correlate a specific mechanic to enjoyment.
You can enjoy a raid and feel good about beating it, but not be "enjoying" a mechanic. I just found it an odd way to phrase the question.
Players dont "enjoy" stacking tenacity on the Sith raid, but it made it a new and difficult puzzle to solve, and player do enjoy beating the raid.
Elements can be added to the game to make things different or difficult or other things, but not necessarily done for that specific thing to drive "enjoyment", it's just piece of the whole, and sometimes that goal can be quite enjoyable.
Lol at comparing stacking tenacity tied to individual runs to universally stacking 75% offense/speed per 20% health lost and 50 Armor Penetration and 10% Critical Chance, Critical Damage, and Potency (stacking) per each turn
I was comparing an individual element in an event to an individual element in an event, for the purpose of discussing what we are discussing, not comparing them to each other on any merit.
If you want to discuss something off the topic of what is being discussed that's fine, but do it somewhere else.
Ummm what? No you’re saying people got over the stacking tenacity which isn’t comparable to these stacking mechanics in this raid. But please, continue
Nope that's not what I said.
Then stay on topic. I really don’t understand why you’re taking this doomed stance for the Crancor raid. Nothing you say will make people enjoy/understand/accept the horrible universal stacking mechanic for the raid. No past events, no previous issues. This is the current issue. And it’s one that they’re intentionally ignoring and one that I hope costs them plenty of Money so they get off of cruise control and actually do something to improve their game. This new conquest mode isn’t enough to deter from their junk challenge rancor raid. The mechanics need to be fixed, otherwise it’ll set a precedent. And their precedent as it stands is hot dog doo doo
I wasnt trying to make people understand or accept it. I was answering a question posed. I also pointed out that it was an odd question to pose. You took it in a different way and tried to spin it to be what you are saying here about "enjoying" a mechanic.
Do you enjoy 12 minute timer on energy??
The point is mechanics are not necessarily in place as a point of "enjoyment" they are there to serve a purpose and from that purpose being filled player derive enjoyment.
In the end if they changed everything around it so that all the purposes were filled (in raid) but the coordination and timing aspects were not necessary, no one would be talking about how they "enjoy" whatever new stuff is put in to make that happen. Liking or enjoying the raid more due to the "undesirable parts" not being present is different, then "enjoying" those new mechanics.
How is a mechanic that directly ties to gameplay relevant with timer durations? Talk about off topic, needs some moderation. Yes, mechanics often go beyond purpose/necessity and can contribute to enjoyment. This particular mechanic creates the opposite of enjoyment for everyone involved. For a good amount of people the mechanic itself deletes the enjoyment that can be possibly gotten out of the rest of the deal. i.e. if this was not a stressed rush deal I would enjoy the new hard state of the raid doing it on my own pace and not connected to an absurd time I need to be present, get done with it and go back to sleep.
The root mechanic is not the part that players would look at to "enjoy" but does give the derived sense of enjoyment when we complete a goal that was paced by said root mechanic. Similar to the raid.
As I said if they added/changed a set of mechanics to serve the same purposes they want in the raid, but players didnt have the need to time and coordinate runs, no one would be "enjoying" those mechanics. You may enjoy playing or the raid more.
I discussed the topic and just made an aside that it was an odd way to pose the question, because players dont directly enjoy mechanics, and therefore wouldnt come here to say it in that way. That took a life of it's own as people wanted to make it seem like I was saying something I was not.
The game is composed of mechanics basically, all the things we enjoy are also due to a mechanic or a group of mechanics in interaction. Singular of multiples of them can very well be both for and derogatory to enjoyment.
Anyway, some other difficulty oriented restrictive mechanics can be gotten over in time which is not true for this mechanic. The raid becoming easier over time won't change the basic nature of the problems associated with this mechanic, we'll just need less people over time. We all get what cg wants to prevent with the mechanic though (to prevent solos or even phase solos), the same end can be reached via modification of this mechanic or replacing it with another one. This is the whole point of majority of the thread.
Kyno
You said it was an odd question to pose...enjoyment. Is this not a game? Is it not meant for enjoyment?
Oh I see, no I didnt say that.
I was saying it's an odd correlation to make, trying to correlate a specific mechanic to enjoyment.
You can enjoy a raid and feel good about beating it, but not be "enjoying" a mechanic. I just found it an odd way to phrase the question.
Players dont "enjoy" stacking tenacity on the Sith raid, but it made it a new and difficult puzzle to solve, and player do enjoy beating the raid.
Elements can be added to the game to make things different or difficult or other things, but not necessarily done for that specific thing to drive "enjoyment", it's just piece of the whole, and sometimes that goal can be quite enjoyable.
Lol at comparing stacking tenacity tied to individual runs to universally stacking 75% offense/speed per 20% health lost and 50 Armor Penetration and 10% Critical Chance, Critical Damage, and Potency (stacking) per each turn
I was comparing an individual element in an event to an individual element in an event, for the purpose of discussing what we are discussing, not comparing them to each other on any merit.
If you want to discuss something off the topic of what is being discussed that's fine, but do it somewhere else.
Ummm what? No you’re saying people got over the stacking tenacity which isn’t comparable to these stacking mechanics in this raid. But please, continue
Nope that's not what I said.
Then stay on topic. I really don’t understand why you’re taking this doomed stance for the Crancor raid. Nothing you say will make people enjoy/understand/accept the horrible universal stacking mechanic for the raid. No past events, no previous issues. This is the current issue. And it’s one that they’re intentionally ignoring and one that I hope costs them plenty of Money so they get off of cruise control and actually do something to improve their game. This new conquest mode isn’t enough to deter from their junk challenge rancor raid. The mechanics need to be fixed, otherwise it’ll set a precedent. And their precedent as it stands is hot dog doo doo
I wasnt trying to make people understand or accept it. I was answering a question posed. I also pointed out that it was an odd question to pose. You took it in a different way and tried to spin it to be what you are saying here about "enjoying" a mechanic.
Do you enjoy 12 minute timer on energy??
The point is mechanics are not necessarily in place as a point of "enjoyment" they are there to serve a purpose and from that purpose being filled player derive enjoyment.
In the end if they changed everything around it so that all the purposes were filled (in raid) but the coordination and timing aspects were not necessary, no one would be talking about how they "enjoy" whatever new stuff is put in to make that happen. Liking or enjoying the raid more due to the "undesirable parts" not being present is different, then "enjoying" those new mechanics.
How is a mechanic that directly ties to gameplay relevant with timer durations? Talk about off topic, needs some moderation. Yes, mechanics often go beyond purpose/necessity and can contribute to enjoyment. This particular mechanic creates the opposite of enjoyment for everyone involved. For a good amount of people the mechanic itself deletes the enjoyment that can be possibly gotten out of the rest of the deal. i.e. if this was not a stressed rush deal I would enjoy the new hard state of the raid doing it on my own pace and not connected to an absurd time I need to be present, get done with it and go back to sleep.
The root mechanic is not the part that players would look at to "enjoy" but does give the derived sense of enjoyment when we complete a goal that was paced by said root mechanic. Similar to the raid.
As I said if they added/changed a set of mechanics to serve the same purposes they want in the raid, but players didnt have the need to time and coordinate runs, no one would be "enjoying" those mechanics. You may enjoy playing or the raid more.
I discussed the topic and just made an aside that it was an odd way to pose the question, because players dont directly enjoy mechanics, and therefore wouldnt come here to say it in that way. That took a life of it's own as people wanted to make it seem like I was saying something I was not.
This discussion seems to be getting very meta... consider me lost XD
Kyno, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "players don't directly enjoy mechanics". Can I try to take this quote out of the context of the raid to see if I understand you?
I like using MM, zPao, HRS, Bistan, Lando vs bugs these days. The TM train, caused by the combination of these characters' mechanics, allows me to take a few dozen turns before the bugs take 1. I thoroughly enjoy this because I feel like I'm beating the bugs at their own game (TM train and mass assists).
Are you saying I don't enjoy the mechanics but rather the result of them?
Not necessarily the result, but the "path around them", or in some cases the end result. If you were in a maze, do you enjoy the walls, no. But you may enjoy solving the puzzle created by them and the walls were certainly not put there for you to enjoy them, they were placed there as a mechanic that serves a purpose.
I just thought my was odd to ask if someone enjoys a root mechanic, as a question. It seems an odd correlation.
People may not like the stacking speed and Offense, but if they implement it in a different way that doesnt require coordination, they would enjoy the raid more. So it seemed odd to ask if someone had chimed in to say they enjoy the mechanic. Again, sorry, this was just a comment I added to my response.
I'm just not sure if it has been changed (and if that's what the question was).
Pretty sure it was always this triangle.
Then why did you say
Not sure if the icon was added just recentely
I knew the icon for mastery decrease was this triangle but I wasn't sure if it was in the cpit from the beginning or just added recently for visualization which seems to be the case as looking at older YT videos of cpit runs there are no mastery decrease icons - not on normal chars or GL's.
Kyno
You said it was an odd question to pose...enjoyment. Is this not a game? Is it not meant for enjoyment?
Oh I see, no I didnt say that.
I was saying it's an odd correlation to make, trying to correlate a specific mechanic to enjoyment.
You can enjoy a raid and feel good about beating it, but not be "enjoying" a mechanic. I just found it an odd way to phrase the question.
Players dont "enjoy" stacking tenacity on the Sith raid, but it made it a new and difficult puzzle to solve, and player do enjoy beating the raid.
Elements can be added to the game to make things different or difficult or other things, but not necessarily done for that specific thing to drive "enjoyment", it's just piece of the whole, and sometimes that goal can be quite enjoyable.
Lol at comparing stacking tenacity tied to individual runs to universally stacking 75% offense/speed per 20% health lost and 50 Armor Penetration and 10% Critical Chance, Critical Damage, and Potency (stacking) per each turn
I was comparing an individual element in an event to an individual element in an event, for the purpose of discussing what we are discussing, not comparing them to each other on any merit.
If you want to discuss something off the topic of what is being discussed that's fine, but do it somewhere else.
Ummm what? No you’re saying people got over the stacking tenacity which isn’t comparable to these stacking mechanics in this raid. But please, continue
Nope that's not what I said.
Then stay on topic. I really don’t understand why you’re taking this doomed stance for the Crancor raid. Nothing you say will make people enjoy/understand/accept the horrible universal stacking mechanic for the raid. No past events, no previous issues. This is the current issue. And it’s one that they’re intentionally ignoring and one that I hope costs them plenty of Money so they get off of cruise control and actually do something to improve their game. This new conquest mode isn’t enough to deter from their junk challenge rancor raid. The mechanics need to be fixed, otherwise it’ll set a precedent. And their precedent as it stands is hot dog doo doo
I wasnt trying to make people understand or accept it. I was answering a question posed. I also pointed out that it was an odd question to pose. You took it in a different way and tried to spin it to be what you are saying here about "enjoying" a mechanic.
Do you enjoy 12 minute timer on energy??
The point is mechanics are not necessarily in place as a point of "enjoyment" they are there to serve a purpose and from that purpose being filled player derive enjoyment.
In the end if they changed everything around it so that all the purposes were filled (in raid) but the coordination and timing aspects were not necessary, no one would be talking about how they "enjoy" whatever new stuff is put in to make that happen. Liking or enjoying the raid more due to the "undesirable parts" not being present is different, then "enjoying" those new mechanics.
How is a mechanic that directly ties to gameplay relevant with timer durations? Talk about off topic, needs some moderation. Yes, mechanics often go beyond purpose/necessity and can contribute to enjoyment. This particular mechanic creates the opposite of enjoyment for everyone involved. For a good amount of people the mechanic itself deletes the enjoyment that can be possibly gotten out of the rest of the deal. i.e. if this was not a stressed rush deal I would enjoy the new hard state of the raid doing it on my own pace and not connected to an absurd time I need to be present, get done with it and go back to sleep.
The root mechanic is not the part that players would look at to "enjoy" but does give the derived sense of enjoyment when we complete a goal that was paced by said root mechanic. Similar to the raid.
As I said if they added/changed a set of mechanics to serve the same purposes they want in the raid, but players didnt have the need to time and coordinate runs, no one would be "enjoying" those mechanics. You may enjoy playing or the raid more.
I discussed the topic and just made an aside that it was an odd way to pose the question, because players dont directly enjoy mechanics, and therefore wouldnt come here to say it in that way. That took a life of it's own as people wanted to make it seem like I was saying something I was not.
This discussion seems to be getting very meta... consider me lost XD
Kyno, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "players don't directly enjoy mechanics". Can I try to take this quote out of the context of the raid to see if I understand you?
I like using MM, zPao, HRS, Bistan, Lando vs bugs these days. The TM train, caused by the combination of these characters' mechanics, allows me to take a few dozen turns before the bugs take 1. I thoroughly enjoy this because I feel like I'm beating the bugs at their own game (TM train and mass assists).
Are you saying I don't enjoy the mechanics but rather the result of them?
Not necessarily the result, but the "path around them", or in some cases the end result. If you were in a maze, do you enjoy the walls, no. But you may enjoy solving the puzzle created by them and the walls were certainly not put there for you to enjoy them, they were placed there as a mechanic that serves a purpose.
I just thought my was odd to ask if someone enjoys a root mechanic, as a question. It seems an odd correlation.
People may not like the stacking speed and Offense, but if they implement it in a different way that doesnt require coordination, they would enjoy the raid more. So it seemed odd to ask if someone had chimed in to say they enjoy the mechanic. Again, sorry, this was just a comment I added to my response.
Well no, I wouldn't directly enjoy the walls, but they also aren't making me enjoy the maze less. Now if the walls were 3 inches apart and covered with poison ivy and giant metal spikes, then that would take away from my enjoyment of the maze. Not all mechanics are neutral.
I'm just confused by your assertion that we can't directly enjoy mechanics. I absolutely do. I love using EP lead with Piett in Geo TB, and using the turn meter train to stack up as many stacks of Emperor's Trap as I can. That's a fun mechanic, even if I run out of steam and can't get 4/4 in the last phase. What is this "path around them" that you're talking about in this case?
This raid wasn't designed for me, or for my guild. My guild is at 144k GP, and I'm personally 4.5M (not the highest in our guild), and also F2P.
Our guild is made of members that have been playing games together for 15 years, this is just one of many games we play, and the only 'mobile' game.
Like many, we're international, spread across every continent and time zone, and also have several in our in-game guild that aren't part of our larger multi-gaming guild.
This raid wasn't made for us. There's no way we can possibly organize enough players to coordinate this, maybe a guild that's comprised of all same time zone members can, but we cant...not ever going to happen.
So, we're skipping this one...same as we did HSTR when it first dropped. The difference is with the Sith raid, eventually gear caught up, players leveled appropriate tier teams needed, and we got relics to help...now we have it cleared in a few hours, easy.
With the mechanics and coordination required for this one...nope. Obviously, this wasn't meant for us, so we're skipping it. The hope is that the R8 mats will be available through a F2P option later...eventually.
Yes, I or many of the other high GP members in my guild could leave and join another just to be able to participate, but why should I be forced to do that...for a mobile game?? I have a guild, and I'm playing with people I've known for many years, so I have no plans to leave just to be able to participate in one singular aspect of the game. I'll skip it, as will the members of my guild that enjoy playing games with people they've also known for years.
Again...hopefully they R8 mats will be available by other means later (in a non P2W manner) so we can participate in fully leveling up our toons...but until then, we'll wait. I'm not going to get all spun up about it, this is after all, a mobile game...it's frustrating when they release something I cant participate in, but I'm used to it by now...and yes, that's my choice.
Replies
I hope you are right in this particular instance.
I didnt say they never did, I said rarely, which is completely true.
Oh I see, no I didnt say that.
I was saying it's an odd correlation to make, trying to correlate a specific mechanic to enjoyment.
You can enjoy a raid and feel good about beating it, but not be "enjoying" a mechanic. I just found it an odd way to phrase the question.
Players dont "enjoy" stacking tenacity on the Sith raid, but it made it a new and difficult puzzle to solve, and player do enjoy beating the raid.
Elements can be added to the game to make things different or difficult or other things, but not necessarily done for that specific thing to drive "enjoyment", it's just piece of the whole, and sometimes that goal can be quite enjoyable.
Which makes the smart, because the community comes up with :alot: of terrible ideas daily.
Lol at comparing stacking tenacity tied to individual runs to universally stacking 75% offense/speed per 20% health lost and 50 Armor Penetration and 10% Critical Chance, Critical Damage, and Potency (stacking) per each turn
I was comparing an individual element in an event to an individual element in an event, for the purpose of discussing what we are discussing, not comparing them to each other on any merit.
If you want to discuss something off the topic of what is being discussed that's fine, but do it somewhere else.
Ummm what? No you’re saying people got over the stacking tenacity which isn’t comparable to these stacking mechanics in this raid. But please, continue
Nope that's not what I said.
Then stay on topic. I really don’t understand why you’re taking this doomed stance for the Crancor raid. Nothing you say will make people enjoy/understand/accept the horrible universal stacking mechanic for the raid. No past events, no previous issues. This is the current issue. And it’s one that they’re intentionally ignoring and one that I hope costs them plenty of Money so they get off of cruise control and actually do something to improve their game. This new conquest mode isn’t enough to deter from their junk challenge rancor raid. The mechanics need to be fixed, otherwise it’ll set a precedent. And their precedent as it stands is hot dog doo doo
I wasnt trying to make people understand or accept it. I was answering a question posed. I also pointed out that it was an odd question to pose. You took it in a different way and tried to spin it to be what you are saying here about "enjoying" a mechanic.
Do you enjoy 12 minute timer on energy??
The point is mechanics are not necessarily in place as a point of "enjoyment" they are there to serve a purpose and from that purpose being filled player derive enjoyment.
In the end if they changed everything around it so that all the purposes were filled (in raid) but the coordination and timing aspects were not necessary, no one would be talking about how they "enjoy" whatever new stuff is put in to make that happen. Liking or enjoying the raid more due to the "undesirable parts" not being present is different, then "enjoying" those new mechanics.
How is a mechanic that directly ties to gameplay relevant with timer durations? Talk about off topic, needs some moderation. Yes, mechanics often go beyond purpose/necessity and can contribute to enjoyment. This particular mechanic creates the opposite of enjoyment for everyone involved. For a good amount of people the mechanic itself deletes the enjoyment that can be possibly gotten out of the rest of the deal. i.e. if this was not a stressed rush deal I would enjoy the new hard state of the raid doing it on my own pace and not connected to an absurd time I need to be present, get done with it and go back to sleep.
The root mechanic is not the part that players would look at to "enjoy" but does give the derived sense of enjoyment when we complete a goal that was paced by said root mechanic. Similar to the raid.
As I said if they added/changed a set of mechanics to serve the same purposes they want in the raid, but players didnt have the need to time and coordinate runs, no one would be "enjoying" those mechanics. You may enjoy playing or the raid more.
I discussed the topic and just made an aside that it was an odd way to pose the question, because players dont directly enjoy mechanics, and therefore wouldnt come here to say it in that way. That took a life of it's own as people wanted to make it seem like I was saying something I was not.
New looking icon?
It always was a triangle but I never looked close enough to know if the specific triangle is different.
If it is new, get ready for GL Mastery Decreased
The mastery decreased icon was always this triangle.
I'm just not sure if it has been changed (and if that's what the question was).
Pretty sure it was always this triangle.
Yes it has always been this triangle
This discussion seems to be getting very meta... consider me lost XD
Kyno, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "players don't directly enjoy mechanics". Can I try to take this quote out of the context of the raid to see if I understand you?
I like using MM, zPao, HRS, Bistan, Lando vs bugs these days. The TM train, caused by the combination of these characters' mechanics, allows me to take a few dozen turns before the bugs take 1. I thoroughly enjoy this because I feel like I'm beating the bugs at their own game (TM train and mass assists).
Are you saying I don't enjoy the mechanics but rather the result of them?
Yeah,
What I meant was that this icon wasn’t in the rancor raid before even though the raid boss decreased mastery
The game is composed of mechanics basically, all the things we enjoy are also due to a mechanic or a group of mechanics in interaction. Singular of multiples of them can very well be both for and derogatory to enjoyment.
Anyway, some other difficulty oriented restrictive mechanics can be gotten over in time which is not true for this mechanic. The raid becoming easier over time won't change the basic nature of the problems associated with this mechanic, we'll just need less people over time. We all get what cg wants to prevent with the mechanic though (to prevent solos or even phase solos), the same end can be reached via modification of this mechanic or replacing it with another one. This is the whole point of majority of the thread.
Not necessarily the result, but the "path around them", or in some cases the end result. If you were in a maze, do you enjoy the walls, no. But you may enjoy solving the puzzle created by them and the walls were certainly not put there for you to enjoy them, they were placed there as a mechanic that serves a purpose.
I just thought my was odd to ask if someone enjoys a root mechanic, as a question. It seems an odd correlation.
People may not like the stacking speed and Offense, but if they implement it in a different way that doesnt require coordination, they would enjoy the raid more. So it seemed odd to ask if someone had chimed in to say they enjoy the mechanic. Again, sorry, this was just a comment I added to my response.
Then why did you say
I knew the icon for mastery decrease was this triangle but I wasn't sure if it was in the cpit from the beginning or just added recently for visualization which seems to be the case as looking at older YT videos of cpit runs there are no mastery decrease icons - not on normal chars or GL's.
Well no, I wouldn't directly enjoy the walls, but they also aren't making me enjoy the maze less. Now if the walls were 3 inches apart and covered with poison ivy and giant metal spikes, then that would take away from my enjoyment of the maze. Not all mechanics are neutral.
I'm just confused by your assertion that we can't directly enjoy mechanics. I absolutely do. I love using EP lead with Piett in Geo TB, and using the turn meter train to stack up as many stacks of Emperor's Trap as I can. That's a fun mechanic, even if I run out of steam and can't get 4/4 in the last phase. What is this "path around them" that you're talking about in this case?
This raid wasn't designed for me, or for my guild. My guild is at 144k GP, and I'm personally 4.5M (not the highest in our guild), and also F2P.
Our guild is made of members that have been playing games together for 15 years, this is just one of many games we play, and the only 'mobile' game.
Like many, we're international, spread across every continent and time zone, and also have several in our in-game guild that aren't part of our larger multi-gaming guild.
This raid wasn't made for us. There's no way we can possibly organize enough players to coordinate this, maybe a guild that's comprised of all same time zone members can, but we cant...not ever going to happen.
So, we're skipping this one...same as we did HSTR when it first dropped. The difference is with the Sith raid, eventually gear caught up, players leveled appropriate tier teams needed, and we got relics to help...now we have it cleared in a few hours, easy.
With the mechanics and coordination required for this one...nope. Obviously, this wasn't meant for us, so we're skipping it. The hope is that the R8 mats will be available through a F2P option later...eventually.
Yes, I or many of the other high GP members in my guild could leave and join another just to be able to participate, but why should I be forced to do that...for a mobile game?? I have a guild, and I'm playing with people I've known for many years, so I have no plans to leave just to be able to participate in one singular aspect of the game. I'll skip it, as will the members of my guild that enjoy playing games with people they've also known for years.
Again...hopefully they R8 mats will be available by other means later (in a non P2W manner) so we can participate in fully leveling up our toons...but until then, we'll wait. I'm not going to get all spun up about it, this is after all, a mobile game...it's frustrating when they release something I cant participate in, but I'm used to it by now...and yes, that's my choice.