[MEGA] State of the Gear-laxy

Replies

  • CamaroAMF wrote: »
    SerWulfgar wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    SerWulfgar wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    SerWulfgar wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    SerWulfgar wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    SerWulfgar wrote: »
    I think for the sake of argument we need to separate the game from the community. These changes seem to be good for the game but are a kick in the teeth to each of the guilds in the 200-300 million range. Sad.

    With gear changes coming, those guilds in that range will be able to build into the place they want to be, and most guilds in those ranges are benefiting from the CRancor changes.

    Can you specify the bad parts for them?

    Your fundamental misunderstanding of the very game you moderate absolutely amazes me. These gear changes aren't anywhere near significant enough to bring mid tier guilds up to CPit level, at least not any time soon - by any measure whatsoever.

    Gating just about anything in a collection game behind end game guilds only is already a reasonably disgusting move to begin with. This is a multiplayer game. MP games are meant to encourage play with friends. CG has done nothing but encourage me (and thousands of others) to leave a guild because I (we) am completely and utterly shut out of any upcoming meta. That is a resounding issue for many. I shouldn't be forced to leave company I like because of CG's incompetence. The community is one of the prime reasons players play. People like people.

    Continuing to gate like this is going to cause many to quit. Why this is such a difficult concept for CG and co. to grasp is beyond me. SWGOH has already flopped to the lowest level in years with the nerfs and conquest changes. Many have quit. Many will continue to quit.

    We are all well aware next to no one working for CG play the very game they work on. It would be decent of you all to at least make it appear as if you're aware of the issues.

    You have two major issues with relic 8 - aeromagnifiers being gated behind end guilds, and impulse detectors requiring such an unbelievable amount of high end materials that those who even do have access to magnifiers are a complete wash and wasting away with said magnifiers. So CG's idea is "oh hey, let's continue to gate magnifiers, flatten out the rewards in CPit, leave them inaccessible every well else still (especially due to the conquest changes), and impulse detectors... nah who cares about those. Oh yeah and here's relic 9, another gear level that is even further gated behind even deeper end game guilds."

    At this point it's absolutely comical the decisions CG has made this year. It's one of the single biggest troll jobs in gaming history. Oh but hey you're giving players a couple dozen extra stun guns a week. That totally solves gearing issues.

    At least I can thank CG for working on the matchmaking with TW. That is definitely something that has been needed.. Naturally they haven't gotten around to fixing GAC's hilariously broken matchmaking but I'll reserve judgment there as I do believe that will happen sooner or later.

    Tl;dr CG has done next to nothing to help mid tier guilds and their players, in any way shape or form. They've encouraged us to quit the game. Crap is still disgustingly gated to end game guilds oknly. We get a few more stun guns. TW matchmaking is getting a fix.

    Wow, solid stuff here.

    Ever time a guild event is added or changed this happens. This is not a goal set out to be a "kick in the teeth" as some put it. It is a natural by product of a system where development is a goal.


    Absolutely not true. Not every guild event induces an earthquake. Granted, we cannot know for sure at this point IF this will induce an earthquake, I am just betting that it will, and it will be the biggest so far.
    If you want to bring a relavant analogy, you can come with the DSTB. In the DSTB (not quoting, paraphrasing) we had an arbitrary, 80M GP limit for participating. Aaaaand we had an official reason for that: smaller guilds would just bang their head against the wall, we wont allow that. I think someone CG-related even said that guilds around the bar should hope to score 1-2 stars. Then first TB started, and guilds around 95 million scored 10+ (12) stars. So the argument seemed to be a little bit... flawed, shall we say. That was the first time we got an arbitrary bar which actually did not serve the community as per the reason it was created in the first place. The only difference is that 80 million (back in the days) was still a relatively low league, average of GP 1.6M.... not that high to be honest. So it might have caused an uproar in the lower regions, and probably did induce some player movements, it was nowhere near this scale.

    LSTB had a similar bar, but again, by the time it was introduced the bar was set to be relatively low.

    ChPit is NOT a good example, because while it contained an arbitrary bar (r5) it is an individual restriction, not a guild restriction. If you cannot participate in ChPit, you can move wherever you want and still wont be able to participate. Jumping to a higher guild to get carried.... rewarded you 1-2 Aero and while some players might have done this, probably there was no mass exodus.

    Using guilds as institutions to prevent players from playing endgame content is a horrible idea, and while it did already happen with the GeoTBs, the bars were low. To put it in another perspective: guilds that were 80M GP at the start of DSGeo could have bee roughly at around 150M+ at the start of the LSGeo, or close enough. Those people were keeping up with the game. There is zero chance that a guild of 150M back then is around 300M now. The math simply doesnt add up, I have.... medium sized sample of statictical data, how much weight a guild gains over time.

    So I will sum it up for you: first of all it is not a natural byproduct, it is pretty much ann artificial byproduct and it doesnt happen every single time. Now, i will give you that we still dont know if it will happen this time, but I feel that it will, and I find it really sad.

    I have not seen a single guild event come out and this not get posted. Yes that is 100% true.

    Each time, they come out, guilds get broken up, and or shifted, and players have an issue that bigger players are going to leave smaller guilds. Yes this was the same for each event you are listing, no this is not bigger, sure it is different, just like each other time.

    You cannot have a progressive system that gives everything out to "everyone". Yes this is a natural byproduct of that system, which is the game and many other games out there. Sure they could have moved the line, but it would cause the same issue just in a different spot.

    I am sure you are ready to back this up with links and sources. I somehow get the feeling that you wont. If you still do thanks in advance.

    Please feel free to search yourself, you are saying its false, you can prove that with links, right?

    By all means, you have the constraint of proof here, not me. You said you saw near-identical posts to this so I challenge your argument for proofs.

    If you want me to support my own argument i can just link any threads, and there wont be any.
    But you know this way better than I do, dont you.
    .

    I'm sorry if you have not been here for each event release you mentioned, but yes players spoke about it destroying their guild, because players will move to better guilds who can get it, or get it faster.

    Internet slang names this as "source: trust me dude.". Sure thing.

    Sith raid: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/comment/1602467#Comment_1602467

    HAAT: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/comment/1091247#Comment_1091247

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/comment/1193764#Comment_1193764

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/comment/1091077#Comment_1091077

    I’m too lazy to find more but rest assured that people have been whining about XYZ destroying guilds since guilds were added to the game. Not new and will likely be a regular thing until the servers are shut down.

    I’m in complete agreement that with every change it is stated by someone that it’ll bring about the destruction of mid to lower guilds, and lead to the demise of swgoh. It is obviously overblown. However while every change leads to hyperbolic and apocalyptic statements, it also does lead to the destruction of some mid and lower level guilds. This isn’t inherently a bad thing, but haat, hstr, ls geo Tb, cpit 1.0 and 2.0 all occurred with a much happier player base. I think it is a mistake to dismiss out of hand the pressure r9 will place on sub 300 million guilds nor should you underestimate just how many were one more bad decision away from retiring.

  • For CG to consider this update as a positive towards alleviating the gear crunch while introducing a new gear level is insane. Usually I agree the player sentiment, but in this case, I’m not sure why their isn’t more anger. Collecting relic 9 materials may not be on the top of most players to do list, but with Executor, that’ll be extremely important to maintain mirror speed. Knowing that it’s limited to TW, and drastically favors hardcore TW guilds, will start to either leave higher GP players a choice of struggling in ship arena or quitting their guild and moving on.

    Keeping up with the joneses is what this game is all about, but for little fish, this patch is bad, for big fish in little guilds, same. You will lose ground quickly or have to pay CG like $200 for one relic level. No way this update changes players minds, if they were considering quitting. Only time will tell if I’m wrong, but this update feels like bad news.
  • Arvoren
    12 posts Member
    edited September 2021
    Am I right in understanding that relic 9 mats will only be paid out at Division 19 or higher and the column mentions how much you get per win/loss? I feel like this will end up negatively impacting guilds as this will likely cause member turnover and will possibly impede others from trying to attempt to get those rewards. Besides the poaching environment that this may create, the bigger issue is the payout amounts for R9 materials based on the chart. It would require 20 TW wins to be able to R9 1 character (assuming you win 20 in a row) and that could take a year at division 19 to achieve for 1 character (assuming you dont whale).
  • They weren't kidding a while back when they said tanks were getting a huge boost at r9. I looked at Bossk and here's his upgrades
    gukz1820t2p5.jpg
    Attackers and supports certainly don't get as much of a boost so I wonder what the right decision is here in regards to bloat and which units to increase. My JML is just r7 so can anyone out there screenshot his boost from r8 to r9? I'm curious how drastically that might change his performance
  • Ultra
    11364 posts Moderator
    I'm not going to r9 attackers / supports (other than Piett)

    Just tanks, but looking at the cost of R9 one toon, I'll just hoard it all for the next GL or prereq for something else that's meta
  • Asifab wrote: »
    Relic 9 doesnt matter for 99% of us, so most of us should just ignore it.

    I am seeing a lot of complaints about Relic 8/9 in this thread.

    Until recently I was not able to acquire the aeromagnifiers for Relic 8. I was the leader of a guild that had a good small core group of players trying to push for C Rancor and better LS TB.

    However, after a while I realized that with out destroying the guild it was never going to be what I wanted, we didn't have enough people dedicated to gearing required toons to help the guild progress vs their own desires.

    So I made the hard choice to leave the guild I have been apart of for nearly 5 years. We were a 240m GP guild that could not complete C Rancor due to 2/3rds of the guild being laid back players.

    A buddy invited me to join his guild, which thankfully was already completing the C Rancor and in return I bring a KAM ready squad to help them with KAM shards.

    Long story short, I had to join a guild where the players were more of the mindset I am which is how to help guild over myself. Many I think will realize this is how they play but the vast majority of players do not.

    Relic 8 is likely meant to be for the top 20% of the players in game who are willing to dedicate their rosters towards a guild goal over personal goals of which characters/squads you want to gear up. I think them making the changes to aeros is a nice change on C Rancor raid.

    If you are worrying about relic 8 then you should be able to turn all your GW currency into shards for shard shop currency in which you can buy pieces for the salvage for R8.

    R9 you shouldn't even be worrying about unless you are in like a top 100 guild.

    The rest of this gear crunch relief is something we've all be begging for and now that it's here people are wanting kyros and R8 materials to be apart of it.

    CG still has to make money, and if we can stop spending crystals on things like stun guns and stun cuffs etc we will be in a drastically better position then we've been in for the past 3 years or so. Kyros and Relic 8 and now Relic 9 mats are going to be where they make their money.

    Look at it this way, with spending less crystals on things like stun guns/cuffs etc we'll be able to spend those crystals on things like signal data or kyros to help speed up our gearing to a point that is still much faster than what we currently have.

    I didn't expect the gear crunch relief to have anything to do with relics period. However even in TW now we will get some relief with Relic 1-7.

    There is a lot more positive in what these updates are going to bring than negative. The only thing I wish they'd of done differently here was worry about the gear crunch release first then bring out R9.



    This has to be literally the most well thought out and sensible response I've seen so far. Thanks for your input...keep 'em coming!

  • Attackers and supports certainly don't get as much of a boost so I wonder what the right decision is here in regards to bloat and which units to increase. My JML is just r7 so can anyone out there screenshot his boost from r8 to r9? I'm curious how drastically that might change his performance

    6p4dtomcdonx.jpg
  • Antario wrote: »
    Attackers and supports certainly don't get as much of a boost so I wonder what the right decision is here in regards to bloat and which units to increase. My JML is just r7 so can anyone out there screenshot his boost from r8 to r9? I'm curious how drastically that might change his performance

    6p4dtomcdonx.jpg

    Mostly the same as the other tanks. Didn't know if GLs had different boosts or not. Thanks! Now I'm curious if his new protection damage thing is real or a bug. He's hitting really hard now with the special ability
  • Putting r8 mats so high on the TW payoff will just create more of a gap between players, no? CPit has already destroyed non-whale guilds, this isn't going to fix anything. This game is heading more and more to an elite only club, not allowed to be in guilds with friends anymore and progress. For us mid level people with a couple GLs still playing with friends in a guild that isn't close to cpit we are just at a stand still. The only way we had to progress was Conquests but they already took that away.

    Now they are giving those elite guilds more ways to pile up the r8s while those of us who are enjoying the game with our friends just get laughed at and told, "if you want to progress leave your friends and join an elite guild." Makes sense that cg only cares about the people who spend hundreds of dollars a month, just depressing is all.
  • So whales will get bulk r9 materials and newbies will not even get scraps. Cant wait to not even be able to arena climb in a month's time
  • I want my relic 8 removed from JML. I'm never going to relic 9 him. it's way too expensive and a waste of resources when you know there's going to be GLs coming that demand 2 relic 9s each, minimium.
  • As far as I'm concerned the 2 main things we needed were kyros and impulse detectors and those are the 2 things left out completely. Can I ask why? Hopefully someone from CG can address this
  • Ultra wrote: »
    I'm not going to r9 attackers / supports (other than Piett)

    Just tanks, but looking at the cost of R9 one toon, I'll just hoard it all for the next GL or prereq for something else that's meta

    That saddens me
  • Nauros wrote: »
    Things to keep in mind:

    This is the first phase of addressing the gear economy, not the final phase.
    The TW MM changes are meant to create more competitive match-ups and discourage sandbagging.

    Being less secretive about the full plan might help...

    If the MM algorithm were known to the public, then the concern is it would be easier to exploit. So, we're not gonna elaborate on it more than a high-level view.

    This is understandable, but also doesn't show much confidence that it is really any good, if you are concerned about it being exploited.

    And they are still unwilling to factor the number of speed mods per side either in GAC or in TW...so yeah...not very confident this new formula will solve much.
  • Dagobond
    134 posts Member
    edited September 2021
    Asifab wrote: »
    Relic 9 doesnt matter for 99% of us, so most of us should just ignore it.

    I am seeing a lot of complaints about Relic 8/9 in this thread.

    ....

    Well for those who are free to play or low spenders and have some of those krakens in their arenas then yeah...r9 matters greatly. Allowing just a very small percentage of the player base access is essentially saying that the rest of the base doesn't matter and that they should just accept they will never be allowed to compete in arenas again.

    Saying r9 doesn't matter at best means someone is clueless and at worst means someone is just trying to defend an egregious change to the game.
  • I am terrified by the other shoe…
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Zumwan wrote: »
    Looks like great news, looking forward to more Stun Guns, Carbantis trickling in. Relic materials are also a very welcome bonus.
    It's interesting they're incentivizing farming Characters from Hard Nodes by increasing gear drop rate, but not Ships from Hard nodes. What's the reasoning behind that? Still, a great change for us low and mid-level players who are still farming a lot of characters. With the increased inventory in the Shard Shop, I wonder if now it's more efficient to farm gear from Hard nodes instead of Normal nodes (for example, using Wicket's node for Stun Guns instead of one of the normal nodes, even if you already have Wicket maxed).

    No the goal is to not have hard nodes overtake normal for farming.

    Kyno, what's the reasoning behind this? If gear drop rate was doubled on hard nodes and they generally cost double energy, why is it not more efficient than normal nodes?
  • "Approximately double drop rate of Gear on PvE Hard nodes with Character Shards
    All PvE nodes with Character shards will have the Gear drop rate increased
    This is intended to increase the amount of Gear earned while farming characters"

    This does bring up the question - when is there going to be a new character to farm on DS Hard nodes? All of the most recent characters are on LS except Omega who was put on Fleet.
  • Cool... This announcement made 3 more players in my guild quit the game, making us even further away from completing CPit or the R9 TW threshold (not that we are close anyways at 244M GP). Great job CG. You continue to burn out players.
  • Asifab
    140 posts Member
    edited September 2021
    Dagobond wrote: »
    Asifab wrote: »
    Relic 9 doesnt matter for 99% of us, so most of us should just ignore it.

    I am seeing a lot of complaints about Relic 8/9 in this thread.

    ....

    Well for those who are free to play or low spenders and have some of those krakens in their arenas then yeah...r9 matters greatly. Allowing just a very small percentage of the player base access is essentially saying that the rest of the base doesn't matter and that they should just accept they will never be allowed to compete in arenas again.

    Saying r9 doesn't matter at best means someone is clueless and at worst means someone is just trying to defend an egregious change to the game.

    If you are entirely F2P or a very low spender, you were never going to be able to compete with the krakens in arena in the first place. Even if you manage the new meta for arena you are not going to match their mods as a F2P or low end spender.

    It's the same complaint out of people every single time with this and the game still goes on. Until recently I couldn't earn a single R8 Aero piece. Now I can and it's going to be nice being able to gear my other characters up from relic 1-8 faster now.

    Why in the world would anyone ever think that Relic 9 would be F2P accessible from the start? If that was your thinking then I believe that you would be the one falling under the clueless tree there.

    If you are not going to spend to get Relic 9 mats and are not in a guild that will earn them fast enough in TW then why bother stressing out about it?

    It's really astounding that the gear crunch relief the entire community has been wanting is coming and because there are 2 gear pieces not included and then the brand new not even 24 hour old relic materials are not included is grinding peoples gears.

    P.S. I am a very very very low end spender and I have krakens in my arena with Executor and Lord Vader and GL Kenobi/CAT.....I don't ever expect to be able to compete with them with out spending at their level.....
  • emoore123 wrote: »
    Cool... This announcement made 3 more players in my guild quit the game, making us even further away from completing CPit or the R9 TW threshold (not that we are close anyways at 244M GP). Great job CG. You continue to burn out players.

    And the improvement of gear cruch will not allowed new player to replace old player in game enough fast...

  • I think the biggest competition to SWGoH is the own Member of the Board.

    There is no new content. Nothing is done. Same old TW. Soon a lot more sandbagging in the area between 320-360m. Only new gear crunch - R9. Soon a lot less guilds and players below 300m. That's it.
  • Dagobond wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Things to keep in mind:

    This is the first phase of addressing the gear economy, not the final phase.
    The TW MM changes are meant to create more competitive match-ups and discourage sandbagging.

    Being less secretive about the full plan might help...

    If the MM algorithm were known to the public, then the concern is it would be easier to exploit. So, we're not gonna elaborate on it more than a high-level view.

    This is understandable, but also doesn't show much confidence that it is really any good, if you are concerned about it being exploited.

    And they are still unwilling to factor the number of speed mods per side either in GAC or in TW...so yeah...not very confident this new formula will solve much.
    Why should they?

  • https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/213179/developer-q-a-9-5/p1

    2 years after they say they will make gear crunch for g12/g13 in Q&A with the coming of relic... they finally do it...
  • This is not bad changes on paper. I am afraid the pressure on people to find guilds that are stable and can compete for top tier rewards has increased again.

    Its very hard to find a guild that I want to be part of. With 8m GP and 5 GL many alliance guilds would be glad to have me. But I dont want to be member of an organization that makes me subject to military/business style hierarchy and wants people to follow orders.

    I have been through all this in 3 alliances in the last 2 years and it wasnt fun:

    - had to apply to alliances and got interviewed
    - had to state what motivates me to join this specific alliance
    - got moved around between guilds
    - was told which characters to farm
    - was told which mod sets to use for TW
    - was forced to farm specific mods
    - had to stream TW matches via discord
    - was "encouraged" to use HotUtils (which costs money and violates ToS)

    I left for an independent guild after I was "ordered" to use an emulator. It didnt matter that I didnt want to create a google account and play the game on a personal computer.
  • Dagobond
    134 posts Member
    edited September 2021
    Asifab wrote: »
    Dagobond wrote: »
    Asifab wrote: »
    Relic 9 doesnt matter for 99% of us, so most of us should just ignore it.

    I am seeing a lot of complaints about Relic 8/9 in this thread.

    ....

    Well for those who are free to play or low spenders and have some of those krakens in their arenas then yeah...r9 matters greatly. Allowing just a very small percentage of the player base access is essentially saying that the rest of the base doesn't matter and that they should just accept they will never be allowed to compete in arenas again.

    Saying r9 doesn't matter at best means someone is clueless and at worst means someone is just trying to defend an egregious change to the game.

    If you are entirely F2P or a very low spender, you were never going to be able to compete with the krakens in arena in the first place. Even if you manage the new meta for arena you are not going to match their mods as a F2P or low end spender.

    It's the same complaint out of people every single time with this and the game still goes on. Until recently I couldn't earn a single R8 Aero piece. Now I can and it's going to be nice being able to gear my other characters up from relic 1-8 faster now.

    Why in the world would anyone ever think that Relic 9 would be F2P accessible from the start? If that was your thinking then I believe that you would be the one falling under the clueless tree there.

    If you are not going to spend to get Relic 9 mats and are not in a guild that will earn them fast enough in TW then why bother stressing out about it?

    It's really astounding that the gear crunch relief the entire community has been wanting is coming and because there are 2 gear pieces not included and then the brand new not even 24 hour old relic materials are not included is grinding peoples gears.

    P.S. I am a very very very low end spender and I have krakens in my arena with Executor and Lord Vader and GL Kenobi/CAT.....I don't ever expect to be able to compete with them with out spending at their level.....


    I am far from a free to play or low spender. I have all the GL at r8, the Executor at 7* and Piett r8 and many other characters at relic 8. However this stupid implementation of the next jump in power will force me to either leave my guild or be left behind in the dust in arenas.

    This isn't the first time that CG threw an arbitrary ultimatum at the players basically forcing people to choose between sticking with friends or seeking out cheese guilds. In the past each time this happened I had to spend a ton more time just trying to climb in my arenas; not for lack of spending but for choosing to remain loyal to friends rather than seeking out another guild.

    Well CG has settled my decision I was about to make. No more money for them from me at this point and if they continue to only care about the well-being of their top 1% at the expense of others then I may just say adios to this mess. For now I will again choose to remain loyal to my guild but just start reclaiming some of my time back by not caring anymore in most modes in the game where this r9 crap will suck like arena and GAC.





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