Can someone with 2 million GP out skill their way to kyber? If so, how? If they can't, why? Because skill is dependent on GP? So it's not skill based then.
You are confusing the MM with the League and Division setup. You are matched within your League based on your skill rating. No amount of skill can punch past sheer roster strength.
If we consider that training is part of the skill and that training in SWGoH consists of building and growing your roster, then we can consider that your skill is limited by your roster because you are not trained enough.
It's easy to understand, right?
It would be easy to understand if money wouldn't be involved and luck based drops weren't involved. By that logic people that spend money on character drops are more skilled.
I started in Aurodium 4 at the beginning of GAC changes, now I’m in Kyber 3. I guess I paid people to lose to me so I could climb 🤷🏻♂️
What's your GP? GLs? Anecdotes are useless if ANYONE cannot achieve what you achieve. Skill based matchmaking assumes there's an equal playing field for everyone
Can someone with 2 million GP out skill their way to kyber? If so, how? If they can't, why? Because skill is dependent on GP? So it's not skill based then.
You are confusing the MM with the League and Division setup. You are matched within your League based on your skill rating. No amount of skill can punch past sheer roster strength.
That's the point then... ??? It's not based on skill anymore-therefore it's not balanced
5.5m GP. 3 GLs. Did I pay to get any of the GLs? No. And I suffered through Hard Conquest for CAT and Maul like anyone else who has them.
Exactly, you have the privilege of a large roster, does that automatically grant you skill? No.
The previous GAC was balanced as it compared two rosters with similar or equal GP. Now we're comparing numbers, not skill
Talent equals skill,
Talent doesn't change, only
Experience does?
That's the point. Experience verses Experience, that would be the old GAC where you end up versing opponents of equal experience, now it matched you up with people that have an absurd advantage, limiting how much skill you can truly maximize.
I started in Aurodium 4 at the beginning of GAC changes, now I’m in Kyber 3. I guess I paid people to lose to me so I could climb 🤷🏻♂️
What's your GP? GLs? Anecdotes are useless if ANYONE cannot achieve what you achieve. Skill based matchmaking assumes there's an equal playing field for everyone
You are still missing the point. What good would it do you to be in Kyber and be matched against a 10M account?
I started in Aurodium 4 at the beginning of GAC changes, now I’m in Kyber 3. I guess I paid people to lose to me so I could climb 🤷🏻♂️
What's your GP? GLs? Anecdotes are useless if ANYONE cannot achieve what you achieve. Skill based matchmaking assumes there's an equal playing field for everyone
You are still missing the point. What good would it do you to be in Kyber and be matched against a 10M account?
No good? That's MY point. The old system had divisions for GP, where your skill could be demonstrated by out playing members of your division until you hit kyber. You hit kyber through skill, and as you progress your GP through divisions it gets more competitive and more experienced. But now you dampen our ability to compare our skill rating when by comparing rosters of difference experienced -GP
Exactly, you have the privilege of a large roster, does that automatically grant you skill? No.
The previous GAC was balanced as it compared two rosters with similar or equal GP. Now we're comparing numbers, not skill
Seeing as how I’m the second smallest in terms of GP in my current GAC bracket, I fail to see your point. My current opponent has 1m GP more than I do.
The old GAC system was garbage, and not worth the effort spent
Exactly, you have the privilege of a large roster, does that automatically grant you skill? No.
The previous GAC was balanced as it compared two rosters with similar or equal GP. Now we're comparing numbers, not skill
Seeing as how I’m the second smallest in terms of GP in my current GAC, I fail to see your point. My current opponent has 1m GP more than I do.
The old GAC system was garbage, and not worth the effort spent
You're literally only providing evidence of your unfair advantage. I'm not saying you can't win, there's a reason your with them, but it isn't a true comparison of skill when you aren't playing on an equal playing field. Everyone ends up finishing their argument "well the old GAC was garbage anyway" without backing up HOW it was garbage. You played opponents of similar GP and had to maximize your skill rather than your GP.
Exactly, you have the privilege of a large roster, does that automatically grant you skill? No.
The previous GAC was balanced as it compared two rosters with similar or equal GP. Now we're comparing numbers, not skill
Seeing as how I’m the second smallest in terms of GP in my current GAC, I fail to see your point. My current opponent has 1m GP more than I do.
The old GAC system was garbage, and not worth the effort spent
You're literally only providing evidence of your unfair advantage. I'm not saying you can't win, there's a reason your with them, but it isn't a true comparison of skill when you aren't playing on an equal playing field. Everyone ends up finishing their argument "well the old GAC was garbage anyway" without backing up HOW it was garbage. You played opponents of similar GP and had to maximize your skill rather than your GP.
It's obvious why CG would endorse this system. It pushes GP- not skill. It pushes money- not skill.
I don’t have an unfair advantage. My opponents have far more teams at their disposal than I do, and more options regarding squad compositions.
The old GAC system created matchups solely on top 80 characters, and it could often create extremely one sided matchups. Matchups now are more even than ever before for me, and even with a bigger GP difference it doesn’t matter. My current opponent and I have matched up in our bracket because we’ve both been able to use our rosters well enough to beat enough people to be in Kyber 3.
And I’ll say it again because you willfully ignored it, but the rewards under the old GAC system were garbage and not worth the effort spent.
The new GAC system isn’t pushing me to inflate my roster for the sake of getting more GP. I farm teams the same exact way as before. For a person believing money is the driving factor behind the change, I don’t think you understand the vast majority of players are getting more crystals than before.
Wait who is bitter? The people that are ok with the new system but not the person who made two threads and fifty posts to complain about it. What is happening?
Probably the person going out of their way to not make any useful arguments but rather incite negative comments towards me and my stance.
I agree that negative comments towards you are unhelpful - ad hominem never wins any hearts or minds. However negative comments towards your stance are exactly what’s needed because it’s based on a fundamental misconception.
You and pretty much all the variations on ‘skill based matchmaking is so unfair’ posters are tilting at windmills. There isn’t any matchmaking. Not since the initial seeding (by GP) in season 1. Now it’s in your own hands to try and fight your way up the ladder and who you meet on the way is determined entirely by the actions of those players. There’s no hidden hand manipulating it. Yes, the scoring system itself is a bit oblique but that doesn’t change the fact that our destiny, GAC-wise, is in our hands. I did ok this last round so I climbed to rank 13 in my league. That means I’m fighting ranks 9 - 16 in the ladder. Most have pretty ripped rosters and it’s going to be an ordeal. I only have myself to blame - but what’s the alternative other than to enjoy the fight.
After all, life is just a headlong dash towards an irrational death. It’s ok to try and take the edge off the existential angst by finding meaning in tiny acts of mobile violence - but don’t look for too much meaning. That’s never healthy.
Hey I really love this! I'm all for skill base matchmaking. It's just that this isn't technically skill based matchmaking anymore. It's technically suppose to be based off gp. You said we try to climb the ladder, but the ladder isn't based off skill as were not versing equal opponents (like we use to be doing). Equal being similar GP, because how you manage and diversify your GP is true skill, but now it's more of an uphill battle based on how much GP you have instead of how much skill you had. Nicest person so far, thank you!
Because it's fun and easy.
Ok ok let me explain.
At the last session of GAC, I made 3 loses on purpose to lower my skill rate. It allows me to stay in a very comfortable zone where when I want to win, I win very easily and when I'm lazy, I just get 10 points and let my opponent win.
Afterwards, there are people like the author of the thread who want to win to go always higher thinking that the fights will be adapted to his level and that he should not fall against guys like me with 4 GL whereas he has 0...
The devs were bound to be aware that some people weren't going to fight hard at every GAC to get to the top. The whole system encourages you to do as little as possible for a more stable reward than before with the arena and above all without effort.
I think that allows larger rosters and GLs to have an inherent advantage now because they're allowed to be lazy, whereas smaller rosters are always put up against this and struggle, they may win, but not because of skill alone, but mere luck and skill combined. That way it can't be an equal playing field as these people are always fighting these sort of battles. It favors those who've been in the game fairly long, or those that spend money
I don’t have an unfair advantage. My opponents have far more teams at their disposal than I do, and more options regarding squad compositions.
The old GAC system created matchups solely on top 80 characters, and it could often create extremely one sided matchups. Matchups now are more even than ever before for me, and even with a bigger GP difference it doesn’t matter. My current opponent and I have matched up in our bracket because we’ve both been able to use our rosters well enough to beat enough people to be in Kyber 3.
And I’ll say it again because you willfully ignored it, but the rewards under the old GAC system were garbage and not worth the effort spent.
The new GAC system isn’t pushing me to inflate my roster for the sake of getting more GP. I farm teams the same exact way as before. For a person believing money is the driving factor behind the change, I don’t think you understand the vast majority of players are getting more crystals than before.
I'm not talking about the rewards, obviously they're much better. But those rewards are a bit of a gaslight to allow people to think this system is better. I'm not saying you have the advantage, they clearly have the advantage. If you were versing opponents of equal GP then you'd be able to have more strategic choices rather than ration your roster because your opponents are (now) much larger.
GP alone isn’t an indication of roster strength as you so believe. The best mods and gear on the right characters make all the difference up. My opponent may have the GP advantage and more squads, it doesn’t mean he has the overall advantage. His mod choices are… questionable. I believe that I have a more than 50% chance of winning even being 1m GP less than him.
Does op think it would be unfair that a 5th grader who is, for the sake of argument, the most skilled football player in the world, can’t be the nfl mvp?
GP alone isn’t an indication of roster strength as you so believe. The best mods and gear on the right characters make all the difference up. My opponent may have the GP advantage and more squads, it doesn’t mean he has the overall advantage. His mod choices are… questionable. I believe that I have a more than 50% chance of winning even being 1m GP less than him.
Again, like I've said before, of course you can win, because you managed your roster better than they have. I've versed people with a million more GP but have like 7 relics total. That isn't relevant, those people should be in a higher division but lower league like the old GAC. They deserve that because they have poor management and probably bad strategy as well. You'd be having a fairer fight versing someone with similar GP and similar characters. Like the old GAC. You'd be versing similar GP and it can get more competitive that way, because people could've managed their roster better or worse than you.
Does op think it would be unfair that a 5th grader who is, for the sake of argument, the most skilled football player in the world, can’t be the nfl mvp?
GP alone isn’t an indication of roster strength as you so believe. The best mods and gear on the right characters make all the difference up. My opponent may have the GP advantage and more squads, it doesn’t mean he has the overall advantage. His mod choices are… questionable. I believe that I have a more than 50% chance of winning even being 1m GP less than him.
I'm not saying GP strength is the only factor, but now it is the biggest factor when it comes to getting to higher leagues, rather than just higher divisions. Because of that, we can't compete in an equal setting- were always compared against someone that has a larger roster and better characters eventually
Does op think it would be unfair that a 5th grader who is, for the sake of argument, the most skilled football player in the world, can’t be the nfl mvp?
They can be in the NFL for 5th graders (division 90) sure. Best 5th grader player in the world, but they're not going to be beating Tom Brady overnight (division 1)
It's like we can't have the concept of best 3 million GP player in the world awared kyber division 8.
Then there's best 10 million GP player in the world kyber division 1.
That's how every sport/competition works
It's clear not a lot of people have experience in a true competitive environment where all factors are considered and are equal. It's really not hard for CG to design this, but it definitely won't be favoring those that spend money at the end of the day if it were based off skill only. That's why this system will never change, monkey see better rewards monkey thinks system is better. Monkey spends money on newest/best characters, monkey has a higher skill rating.
There's been some decent points made among those who don't use "ratio" based thinking (collective agreement=better) or ad hominem.
People use to collectively believe the earth was flat until 1 or 2 people had to share otherwise, nevertheless people still think the earth is flat. Sucks to be you, a few people almost changed my mind, but I think I've heard it all. Until you can get to kyber with 2 million GP then it's not based in skill, it's based in GP with skill to compensate. I'll leave you with that
It's clear not a lot of people have experience in a true competitive environment where all factors are considered and are equal. It's really not hard for CG to design this, but it definitely won't be favoring those that spend money at the end of the day if it were based off skill only. That's why this system will never change, monkey see better rewards monkey thinks system is better. Monkey spends money on newest/best characters, monkey has a higher skill rating.
Now you’re getting it. CG isn’t designing the system to be fair, they are designing it to encourage people to spend money. I’m more than happy to let those that spend and those that have just been at this a really long time play in their own little sandbox up at the top, it helps keep the lights on over at CG.
Replies
Lmao no no tell me it's based on skill when you can't out skill your way to the top then? Does it take skill? Or just luck+large roster?
You are confusing the MM with the League and Division setup. You are matched within your League based on your skill rating. No amount of skill can punch past sheer roster strength.
It would be easy to understand if money wouldn't be involved and luck based drops weren't involved. By that logic people that spend money on character drops are more skilled.
What's your GP? GLs? Anecdotes are useless if ANYONE cannot achieve what you achieve. Skill based matchmaking assumes there's an equal playing field for everyone
That's the point then... ??? It's not based on skill anymore-therefore it's not balanced
Exactly, you have the privilege of a large roster, does that automatically grant you skill? No.
The previous GAC was balanced as it compared two rosters with similar or equal GP. Now we're comparing numbers, not skill
That's the point. Experience verses Experience, that would be the old GAC where you end up versing opponents of equal experience, now it matched you up with people that have an absurd advantage, limiting how much skill you can truly maximize.
Sounds like your projecting
You are still missing the point. What good would it do you to be in Kyber and be matched against a 10M account?
No good? That's MY point. The old system had divisions for GP, where your skill could be demonstrated by out playing members of your division until you hit kyber. You hit kyber through skill, and as you progress your GP through divisions it gets more competitive and more experienced. But now you dampen our ability to compare our skill rating when by comparing rosters of difference experienced -GP
Seeing as how I’m the second smallest in terms of GP in my current GAC bracket, I fail to see your point. My current opponent has 1m GP more than I do.
The old GAC system was garbage, and not worth the effort spent
You're literally only providing evidence of your unfair advantage. I'm not saying you can't win, there's a reason your with them, but it isn't a true comparison of skill when you aren't playing on an equal playing field. Everyone ends up finishing their argument "well the old GAC was garbage anyway" without backing up HOW it was garbage. You played opponents of similar GP and had to maximize your skill rather than your GP.
It's obvious why CG would endorse this system. It pushes GP- not skill. It pushes money- not skill.
The old GAC system created matchups solely on top 80 characters, and it could often create extremely one sided matchups. Matchups now are more even than ever before for me, and even with a bigger GP difference it doesn’t matter. My current opponent and I have matched up in our bracket because we’ve both been able to use our rosters well enough to beat enough people to be in Kyber 3.
And I’ll say it again because you willfully ignored it, but the rewards under the old GAC system were garbage and not worth the effort spent.
The new GAC system isn’t pushing me to inflate my roster for the sake of getting more GP. I farm teams the same exact way as before. For a person believing money is the driving factor behind the change, I don’t think you understand the vast majority of players are getting more crystals than before.
Hey I really love this! I'm all for skill base matchmaking. It's just that this isn't technically skill based matchmaking anymore. It's technically suppose to be based off gp. You said we try to climb the ladder, but the ladder isn't based off skill as were not versing equal opponents (like we use to be doing). Equal being similar GP, because how you manage and diversify your GP is true skill, but now it's more of an uphill battle based on how much GP you have instead of how much skill you had. Nicest person so far, thank you!
I think that allows larger rosters and GLs to have an inherent advantage now because they're allowed to be lazy, whereas smaller rosters are always put up against this and struggle, they may win, but not because of skill alone, but mere luck and skill combined. That way it can't be an equal playing field as these people are always fighting these sort of battles. It favors those who've been in the game fairly long, or those that spend money
I'm not talking about the rewards, obviously they're much better. But those rewards are a bit of a gaslight to allow people to think this system is better. I'm not saying you have the advantage, they clearly have the advantage. If you were versing opponents of equal GP then you'd be able to have more strategic choices rather than ration your roster because your opponents are (now) much larger.
Again, like I've said before, of course you can win, because you managed your roster better than they have. I've versed people with a million more GP but have like 7 relics total. That isn't relevant, those people should be in a higher division but lower league like the old GAC. They deserve that because they have poor management and probably bad strategy as well. You'd be having a fairer fight versing someone with similar GP and similar characters. Like the old GAC. You'd be versing similar GP and it can get more competitive that way, because people could've managed their roster better or worse than you.
More than likely.
I'm not saying GP strength is the only factor, but now it is the biggest factor when it comes to getting to higher leagues, rather than just higher divisions. Because of that, we can't compete in an equal setting- were always compared against someone that has a larger roster and better characters eventually
They can be in the NFL for 5th graders (division 90) sure. Best 5th grader player in the world, but they're not going to be beating Tom Brady overnight (division 1)
Then there's best 10 million GP player in the world kyber division 1.
That's how every sport/competition works
People use to collectively believe the earth was flat until 1 or 2 people had to share otherwise, nevertheless people still think the earth is flat. Sucks to be you, a few people almost changed my mind, but I think I've heard it all. Until you can get to kyber with 2 million GP then it's not based in skill, it's based in GP with skill to compensate. I'll leave you with that
Now you’re getting it. CG isn’t designing the system to be fair, they are designing it to encourage people to spend money. I’m more than happy to let those that spend and those that have just been at this a really long time play in their own little sandbox up at the top, it helps keep the lights on over at CG.
DISCLAIMER: Post is subject to change.