When will CG start taking cheating seriously again?

Replies

  • Whether or not any one of us has never faced a cheater or not is irrelevant. I also have never seen anything suspicious in my GAC history. Cool. Yay me. How would me posting that as a comment be relevant to the discussion? Either I'd be a pointless distraction or I'd be insinuating something. The former is troll-y and the latter insinuates something ridiculous since there very clearly are a non-negligible amount of cheaters out there. And CG has refused to do anything substantial about it, which is a bad look.

    Are you okay?
  • I'm fine. How are you?

    Your question suggests you either misread the tone or misappropriated my last post ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Ultra wrote: »
    ZurinFet wrote: »
    Its funny because I faced more than 10 in 6 months 😫

    What division are you?

    Probability of running into cheaters are more likely to be in lower divisions, instead of higher divisions like Kyber

    Much higher chance of seeing cheaters in Kyber - they are just smarter.
  • Ultra
    11368 posts Moderator
    Ultra wrote: »
    ZurinFet wrote: »
    Its funny because I faced more than 10 in 6 months 😫

    What division are you?

    Probability of running into cheaters are more likely to be in lower divisions, instead of higher divisions like Kyber

    Much higher chance of seeing cheaters in Kyber - they are just smarter.

    You think people are more likely to cheat in kyber than early game with less than < 2 million GP???
  • Whether or not any one of us has never faced a cheater or not is irrelevant. I also have never seen anything suspicious in my GAC history. Cool. Yay me. How would me posting that as a comment be relevant to the discussion? Either I'd be a pointless distraction or I'd be insinuating something. The former is troll-y and the latter insinuates something ridiculous since there very clearly are a non-negligible amount of cheaters out there. And CG has refused to do anything substantial about it, which is a bad look.

    Are you okay?
    Ultra wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    ZurinFet wrote: »
    Its funny because I faced more than 10 in 6 months 😫

    What division are you?

    Probability of running into cheaters are more likely to be in lower divisions, instead of higher divisions like Kyber

    Much higher chance of seeing cheaters in Kyber - they are just smarter.

    You think people are more likely to cheat in kyber than early game with less than < 2 million GP???

    If only CG put more effort into countering cheating so they could provide statistics and we didn't have to theorize about where the cheaters are...
  • How would me posting that as a comment be relevant to the discussion? Either I'd be a pointless distraction or I'd be insinuating something. The former is troll-y and the latter insinuates something ridiculous since there very clearly are a non-negligible amount of cheaters out there.
    Or, it's just one's personal experience with cheaters in the game. Don't get all dramatic.
  • An irrelevant personal experience it is. Thanks
  • An irrelevant personal experience it is. Thanks

    Isn't that 90% of these forums?
  • TVF
    36406 posts Member
    An irrelevant personal experience it is. Thanks

    Isn't that 90% of these forums?

    Just 90%?
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Lumiya
    1383 posts Member
    Screerider wrote: »
    How would me posting that as a comment be relevant to the discussion? Either I'd be a pointless distraction or I'd be insinuating something. The former is troll-y and the latter insinuates something ridiculous since there very clearly are a non-negligible amount of cheaters out there.
    Or, it's just one's personal experience with cheaters in the game. Don't get all dramatic.

    I think it's interesting that normally people are pretty fast (rightfully) called out for anecdotal evidence when they base their opinion or assumptions only on their own experiences and yet now all of a sudden it's just being dramatic when it gets called out.

    We are all made of star-stuff
  • I
    Lumiya wrote: »
    Screerider wrote: »
    How would me posting that as a comment be relevant to the discussion? Either I'd be a pointless distraction or I'd be insinuating something. The former is troll-y and the latter insinuates something ridiculous since there very clearly are a non-negligible amount of cheaters out there.
    Or, it's just one's personal experience with cheaters in the game. Don't get all dramatic.

    I think it's interesting that normally people are pretty fast (rightfully) called out for anecdotal evidence when they base their opinion or assumptions only on their own experiences and yet now all of a sudden it's just being dramatic when it gets called out.

    Excellent post…mic drop. I guess that is why those people are called trolls
  • Well, I wasn't trying to troll or insinuate anything. Your mind went there. Maybe chill.
  • TVF wrote: »
    Responses like the above are exactly why cheaters are rampant.

    That's an odd thing to say, I just wanted to see the cheaters you keep facing. Others are having no problems showing blatant cheating against them.

    You can honestly believe your 33000 posts are just tneutral, and your comments are just tying to see the cheaters who you don't believe exist because you can't tell the difference. If you do, some self assessment is in order.

    Here's an example. Last cycle, a guy loses 3 battles bottom front zone, and 1 top, then pauses. I clear botton knowing it means a win. Magically, 1 hour before the event ends. He clears bottom and top with no more drops. Simply put, if he could have done that without cheating, he would have initially. Did he use teams that "could" win according to swgoh.gg - probably.

    Good cheaters aren't the blatant examples you are looking for.

    That is my point, good cheaters only need to watch you and cheat in key moments. Very few cheat in ways where "your team of discord experts" can tell an obvious difference. It's as simple as remembering your best mods on offense teams to judge where your stats are within possible, then swapping all your best mods to D.
    You then use the well known hacks to adjusting your offense stats as if your best mods were on offense. I'd love to have my best mods on D and O. How many more battles do you think you win doing only what I've written, 25% more?

    If not that, just cheat in a key battle or two and you win a round.

    As for your accusation of others playing better, my opinion is play is massively overrated. Modding correctly and turn order matter in a couple counters, otherwise the game is p2w. I play in the bottom range of the top 10 guilds. Trust me, $ wins over skill every time.

    Also, the kyber 1/2 border is likely where most cheating happens. Whales don't need to, and lower level players don't care. I rhink if I were put in charge of catching cheaters, I'd do a comenable job relative to the current swath who don't even know what to look for. Add a companynwho won't even address the most obvious cases of cheating, and you are telling me cheating isn't underestimated. Ok, but I disagree.

    But sure,, believe what you will, this thread exists because cheating isn't an issue. You are just inocently curious while dismissing others, and since you've never seen cheating, obviously all the people threatening to quit are just sore losers who can't play.

    I don't cheat which is why I'm in this post, . . . but if I did, I assure you that you'd never know. Ask yourself, for every **** cheater who can't hide it, how many decent cheaters can. And you claim to have seen the obvious examples, . . . so what was your point again?

    Does any of this nonsense make sense. Argues people cheat and yes there are but sounds more of a moan than providing evidence against. Stupid example too.
  • Lumiya wrote: »
    Screerider wrote: »
    How would me posting that as a comment be relevant to the discussion? Either I'd be a pointless distraction or I'd be insinuating something. The former is troll-y and the latter insinuates something ridiculous since there very clearly are a non-negligible amount of cheaters out there.
    Or, it's just one's personal experience with cheaters in the game. Don't get all dramatic.

    I think it's interesting that normally people are pretty fast (rightfully) called out for anecdotal evidence when they base their opinion or assumptions only on their own experiences and yet now all of a sudden it's just being dramatic when it gets called out.
    I’m not sure I follow your position on this. Why can’t people provide anecdotal statements on the prevalence of cheating? If I’ve never faced one in 6.75 years of playing, why is that any less valid than someone saying they have faced a cheat?

    Nobody could dispute that there are cheaters. The first post in this thread is all the proof anyone needs to see that this is true.

    But the waters get unnecessarily muddied when people make ridiculous claims like
    Also, I face a suspected cheater almost every GAC. My guess is about 20% of the players cheat. Most do it just enough to seem reasonable.
    It’s perfectly reasonable for people to be sceptical or even cynical about claims like that. Especially when that poster’s GAC history is clearly visible to anyone that looks and can see for themselves that absolutely none of his results look in the least bit suspicious stretching back many months. In fact, the only concrete “example” he cited does not match any of his recent matches at all and it’s laughable that someone thinks that this qualifies as proof.

    Cheaters exist - fact.
    Many players have faced a cheat - fact
    Many players have never faced a cheat - fact.

    I don’t see the problem with people citing anecdotal evidence in a thread like this - so long as what they are saying is factual. CG certainly aren’t being transparent on the amount of cheats they catch, so anecdotal statements is all we can work with.
  • "I've seen some cheaters" - good post, facts, action needed
    "I've never seen cheaters" - trolling, gaslighting, anecdotal
  • Lumiya wrote: »
    Screerider wrote: »
    How would me posting that as a comment be relevant to the discussion? Either I'd be a pointless distraction or I'd be insinuating something. The former is troll-y and the latter insinuates something ridiculous since there very clearly are a non-negligible amount of cheaters out there.
    Or, it's just one's personal experience with cheaters in the game. Don't get all dramatic.

    I think it's interesting that normally people are pretty fast (rightfully) called out for anecdotal evidence when they base their opinion or assumptions only on their own experiences and yet now all of a sudden it's just being dramatic when it gets called out.
    I’m not sure I follow your position on this. Why can’t people provide anecdotal statements on the prevalence of cheating? If I’ve never faced one in 6.75 years of playing, why is that any less valid than someone saying they have faced a cheat?

    Nobody could dispute that there are cheaters. The first post in this thread is all the proof anyone needs to see that this is true.

    But the waters get unnecessarily muddied when people make ridiculous claims like
    Also, I face a suspected cheater almost every GAC. My guess is about 20% of the players cheat. Most do it just enough to seem reasonable.
    It’s perfectly reasonable for people to be sceptical or even cynical about claims like that. Especially when that poster’s GAC history is clearly visible to anyone that looks and can see for themselves that absolutely none of his results look in the least bit suspicious stretching back many months. In fact, the only concrete “example” he cited does not match any of his recent matches at all and it’s laughable that someone thinks that this qualifies as proof.

    Cheaters exist - fact.
    Many players have faced a cheat - fact
    Many players have never faced a cheat - fact.

    I don’t see the problem with people citing anecdotal evidence in a thread like this - so long as what they are saying is factual. CG certainly aren’t being transparent on the amount of cheats they catch, so anecdotal statements is all we can work with.

    If I’ve never faced one in 6.75 years of playing, why is that any less valid than someone saying they have faced a cheat?

    How do you know? Whether it was in the old GAC or in fleet arena or squad arena, can you be 100% sure you have never faced a cheater?
  • Do you remember the cow story from ‘the curious incident of the dog in the nighttime’ by Mark Haddon?

    I’ve pasted it below if you’ve forgotten it or haven’t read the book (it’s a good book if you’ve not). Anyway, this debate made me think about it. I think the point is that we can’t ever quantify the extent of the problem but we can reasonably ask CG to have some openness about their policy & procedures and to acknowledge players’ concerns - regardless of the epidemiology of cheating across the game.

    “There are three men on a train. One of them is an economist and one of them is a logician and one of them is a mathematician. And they have just crossed the border into Scotland (I don’t know why they are going to Scotland) and they see a brown cow standing in a field from the window of the train (and the cow is standing parallel to the train). And the economist says, “Look, the cows in Scotland are brown.” And the logician says, “No. There are cows in Scotland of which one at least is brown.” And the mathematician says, “No. There is at least one cow in Scotland, of which one side appears to be brown.”
  • Who said the cow was in Scotland…
    Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for life.
  • In the context of the greater conversation, your post was going to be interpreted as one of the following:
    1. Irrelevant--with a literal reading of what you stated with no inferences drawn. Because it doesn't matter if you have or have not seen cheaters. The thread is about what CG is/isn't doing about the cheating we do know about.
    2. Insinuative--with a pretty small inference drawn. An assumed premise of the OP is that the amount of cheating we know about is unacceptable. It's not a huge leap to take your words and infer that you disagree.
    Screerider wrote: »
    "I've seen some cheaters" - good post, facts, action needed

    Because the presence of even a small amount of cheating is deemed unacceptable by many.
    Screerider wrote: »
    "I've never seen cheaters" - trolling, gaslighting, anecdotal

    Because the fact that you haven't seen them fits into one of the categories above. Also, I don't recall anyone accusing of you gaslighting.
  • I never implied cheating was acceptable, but go on with your gatekeeping.
  • Ragnarok_COTF
    1735 posts Member
    edited January 2023
  • Ragnarok_COTF
    1735 posts Member
    edited January 2023
    Screerider wrote: »
    I never implied cheating was acceptable, but go on with your gatekeeping.

    It's not gatekeeping. I'm not suggesting you "shut your mouth" or anything like that. I'm explaining to you why your comment was received the way it was.

    No one said you implied cheating was acceptable. I said it was implied that you think the amount of cheating is so small as to not be worthy of CG's time/energy.
  • Lumiya
    1383 posts Member
    Lumiya wrote: »
    Screerider wrote: »
    How would me posting that as a comment be relevant to the discussion? Either I'd be a pointless distraction or I'd be insinuating something. The former is troll-y and the latter insinuates something ridiculous since there very clearly are a non-negligible amount of cheaters out there.
    Or, it's just one's personal experience with cheaters in the game. Don't get all dramatic.

    I think it's interesting that normally people are pretty fast (rightfully) called out for anecdotal evidence when they base their opinion or assumptions only on their own experiences and yet now all of a sudden it's just being dramatic when it gets called out.
    I’m not sure I follow your position on this. Why can’t people provide anecdotal statements on the prevalence of cheating? If I’ve never faced one in 6.75 years of playing, why is that any less valid than someone saying they have faced a cheat?

    Nobody could dispute that there are cheaters. The first post in this thread is all the proof anyone needs to see that this is true.

    But the waters get unnecessarily muddied when people make ridiculous claims like
    Also, I face a suspected cheater almost every GAC. My guess is about 20% of the players cheat. Most do it just enough to seem reasonable.
    It’s perfectly reasonable for people to be sceptical or even cynical about claims like that. Especially when that poster’s GAC history is clearly visible to anyone that looks and can see for themselves that absolutely none of his results look in the least bit suspicious stretching back many months. In fact, the only concrete “example” he cited does not match any of his recent matches at all and it’s laughable that someone thinks that this qualifies as proof.

    Cheaters exist - fact.
    Many players have faced a cheat - fact
    Many players have never faced a cheat - fact.

    I don’t see the problem with people citing anecdotal evidence in a thread like this - so long as what they are saying is factual. CG certainly aren’t being transparent on the amount of cheats they catch, so anecdotal statements is all we can work with.

    @Ragnarok_COTF already explained it quite well.
    We are all made of star-stuff
  • I said it was implied that you think the amount of cheating is so small as to not be worthy of CG's time/energy.
    Well, I don't believe that either. You people can stop trying to put words in my mouth, okay?

  • Screerider wrote: »
    I said it was implied that you think the amount of cheating is so small as to not be worthy of CG's time/energy.
    Well, I don't believe that either. You people can stop trying to put words in my mouth, okay?

    I apologize for assuming things you don't believe and didn't explicitly state. I am glad that you agree with OP on this one. Cheers
  • At least my comment got us into the more interesting side-topic about exposure to cheaters being related to one's level in the game. That it also led to the side-topic of me was less.
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