Whether or not any one of us has never faced a cheater or not is irrelevant. I also have never seen anything suspicious in my GAC history. Cool. Yay me. How would me posting that as a comment be relevant to the discussion? Either I'd be a pointless distraction or I'd be insinuating something. The former is troll-y and the latter insinuates something ridiculous since there very clearly are a non-negligible amount of cheaters out there. And CG has refused to do anything substantial about it, which is a bad look.
Whether or not any one of us has never faced a cheater or not is irrelevant. I also have never seen anything suspicious in my GAC history. Cool. Yay me. How would me posting that as a comment be relevant to the discussion? Either I'd be a pointless distraction or I'd be insinuating something. The former is troll-y and the latter insinuates something ridiculous since there very clearly are a non-negligible amount of cheaters out there. And CG has refused to do anything substantial about it, which is a bad look.
How would me posting that as a comment be relevant to the discussion? Either I'd be a pointless distraction or I'd be insinuating something. The former is troll-y and the latter insinuates something ridiculous since there very clearly are a non-negligible amount of cheaters out there.
Or, it's just one's personal experience with cheaters in the game. Don't get all dramatic.
How would me posting that as a comment be relevant to the discussion? Either I'd be a pointless distraction or I'd be insinuating something. The former is troll-y and the latter insinuates something ridiculous since there very clearly are a non-negligible amount of cheaters out there.
Or, it's just one's personal experience with cheaters in the game. Don't get all dramatic.
I think it's interesting that normally people are pretty fast (rightfully) called out for anecdotal evidence when they base their opinion or assumptions only on their own experiences and yet now all of a sudden it's just being dramatic when it gets called out.
How would me posting that as a comment be relevant to the discussion? Either I'd be a pointless distraction or I'd be insinuating something. The former is troll-y and the latter insinuates something ridiculous since there very clearly are a non-negligible amount of cheaters out there.
Or, it's just one's personal experience with cheaters in the game. Don't get all dramatic.
I think it's interesting that normally people are pretty fast (rightfully) called out for anecdotal evidence when they base their opinion or assumptions only on their own experiences and yet now all of a sudden it's just being dramatic when it gets called out.
Excellent post…mic drop. I guess that is why those people are called trolls
How would me posting that as a comment be relevant to the discussion? Either I'd be a pointless distraction or I'd be insinuating something. The former is troll-y and the latter insinuates something ridiculous since there very clearly are a non-negligible amount of cheaters out there.
Or, it's just one's personal experience with cheaters in the game. Don't get all dramatic.
I think it's interesting that normally people are pretty fast (rightfully) called out for anecdotal evidence when they base their opinion or assumptions only on their own experiences and yet now all of a sudden it's just being dramatic when it gets called out.
I’m not sure I follow your position on this. Why can’t people provide anecdotal statements on the prevalence of cheating? If I’ve never faced one in 6.75 years of playing, why is that any less valid than someone saying they have faced a cheat?
Nobody could dispute that there are cheaters. The first post in this thread is all the proof anyone needs to see that this is true.
But the waters get unnecessarily muddied when people make ridiculous claims like
Also, I face a suspected cheater almost every GAC. My guess is about 20% of the players cheat. Most do it just enough to seem reasonable.
It’s perfectly reasonable for people to be sceptical or even cynical about claims like that. Especially when that poster’s GAC history is clearly visible to anyone that looks and can see for themselves that absolutely none of his results look in the least bit suspicious stretching back many months. In fact, the only concrete “example” he cited does not match any of his recent matches at all and it’s laughable that someone thinks that this qualifies as proof.
Cheaters exist - fact.
Many players have faced a cheat - fact
Many players have never faced a cheat - fact.
I don’t see the problem with people citing anecdotal evidence in a thread like this - so long as what they are saying is factual. CG certainly aren’t being transparent on the amount of cheats they catch, so anecdotal statements is all we can work with.
How would me posting that as a comment be relevant to the discussion? Either I'd be a pointless distraction or I'd be insinuating something. The former is troll-y and the latter insinuates something ridiculous since there very clearly are a non-negligible amount of cheaters out there.
Or, it's just one's personal experience with cheaters in the game. Don't get all dramatic.
I think it's interesting that normally people are pretty fast (rightfully) called out for anecdotal evidence when they base their opinion or assumptions only on their own experiences and yet now all of a sudden it's just being dramatic when it gets called out.
I’m not sure I follow your position on this. Why can’t people provide anecdotal statements on the prevalence of cheating? If I’ve never faced one in 6.75 years of playing, why is that any less valid than someone saying they have faced a cheat?
Nobody could dispute that there are cheaters. The first post in this thread is all the proof anyone needs to see that this is true.
But the waters get unnecessarily muddied when people make ridiculous claims like
Also, I face a suspected cheater almost every GAC. My guess is about 20% of the players cheat. Most do it just enough to seem reasonable.
It’s perfectly reasonable for people to be sceptical or even cynical about claims like that. Especially when that poster’s GAC history is clearly visible to anyone that looks and can see for themselves that absolutely none of his results look in the least bit suspicious stretching back many months. In fact, the only concrete “example” he cited does not match any of his recent matches at all and it’s laughable that someone thinks that this qualifies as proof.
Cheaters exist - fact.
Many players have faced a cheat - fact
Many players have never faced a cheat - fact.
I don’t see the problem with people citing anecdotal evidence in a thread like this - so long as what they are saying is factual. CG certainly aren’t being transparent on the amount of cheats they catch, so anecdotal statements is all we can work with.
If I’ve never faced one in 6.75 years of playing, why is that any less valid than someone saying they have faced a cheat?
How do you know? Whether it was in the old GAC or in fleet arena or squad arena, can you be 100% sure you have never faced a cheater?
Do you remember the cow story from ‘the curious incident of the dog in the nighttime’ by Mark Haddon?
I’ve pasted it below if you’ve forgotten it or haven’t read the book (it’s a good book if you’ve not). Anyway, this debate made me think about it. I think the point is that we can’t ever quantify the extent of the problem but we can reasonably ask CG to have some openness about their policy & procedures and to acknowledge players’ concerns - regardless of the epidemiology of cheating across the game.
“There are three men on a train. One of them is an economist and one of them is a logician and one of them is a mathematician. And they have just crossed the border into Scotland (I don’t know why they are going to Scotland) and they see a brown cow standing in a field from the window of the train (and the cow is standing parallel to the train). And the economist says, “Look, the cows in Scotland are brown.” And the logician says, “No. There are cows in Scotland of which one at least is brown.” And the mathematician says, “No. There is at least one cow in Scotland, of which one side appears to be brown.”
In the context of the greater conversation, your post was going to be interpreted as one of the following:
Irrelevant--with a literal reading of what you stated with no inferences drawn. Because it doesn't matter if you have or have not seen cheaters. The thread is about what CG is/isn't doing about the cheating we do know about.
Insinuative--with a pretty small inference drawn. An assumed premise of the OP is that the amount of cheating we know about is unacceptable. It's not a huge leap to take your words and infer that you disagree.
Do you remember the cow story from ‘the curious incident of the dog in the nighttime’ by Mark Haddon?
I’ve pasted it below if you’ve forgotten it or haven’t read the book (it’s a good book if you’ve not). Anyway, this debate made me think about it. I think the point is that we can’t ever quantify the extent of the problem but we can reasonably ask CG to have some openness about their policy & procedures and to acknowledge players’ concerns - regardless of the epidemiology of cheating across the game.
“There are three men on a train. One of them is an economist and one of them is a logician and one of them is a mathematician. And they have just crossed the border into Scotland (I don’t know why they are going to Scotland) and they see a brown cow standing in a field from the window of the train (and the cow is standing parallel to the train). And the economist says, “Look, the cows in Scotland are brown.” And the logician says, “No. There are cows in Scotland of which one at least is brown.” And the mathematician says, “No. There is at least one cow in Scotland, of which one side appears to be brown.”
I see it more like a town hall meeting. A handful of people have appeared to present their grievances that X has happened a few times in their neighborhood, they have proof that it has happened, and they'd like the city to do something to prevent it from happening again. Then, someone in the gallery who doesn't even live in their neighborhood stands up to tell everyone that no such thing has happened in their neighborhood and then sits back down.
I never implied cheating was acceptable, but go on with your gatekeeping.
It's not gatekeeping. I'm not suggesting you "shut your mouth" or anything like that. I'm explaining to you why your comment was received the way it was.
No one said you implied cheating was acceptable. I said it was implied that you think the amount of cheating is so small as to not be worthy of CG's time/energy.
How would me posting that as a comment be relevant to the discussion? Either I'd be a pointless distraction or I'd be insinuating something. The former is troll-y and the latter insinuates something ridiculous since there very clearly are a non-negligible amount of cheaters out there.
Or, it's just one's personal experience with cheaters in the game. Don't get all dramatic.
I think it's interesting that normally people are pretty fast (rightfully) called out for anecdotal evidence when they base their opinion or assumptions only on their own experiences and yet now all of a sudden it's just being dramatic when it gets called out.
I’m not sure I follow your position on this. Why can’t people provide anecdotal statements on the prevalence of cheating? If I’ve never faced one in 6.75 years of playing, why is that any less valid than someone saying they have faced a cheat?
Nobody could dispute that there are cheaters. The first post in this thread is all the proof anyone needs to see that this is true.
But the waters get unnecessarily muddied when people make ridiculous claims like
Also, I face a suspected cheater almost every GAC. My guess is about 20% of the players cheat. Most do it just enough to seem reasonable.
It’s perfectly reasonable for people to be sceptical or even cynical about claims like that. Especially when that poster’s GAC history is clearly visible to anyone that looks and can see for themselves that absolutely none of his results look in the least bit suspicious stretching back many months. In fact, the only concrete “example” he cited does not match any of his recent matches at all and it’s laughable that someone thinks that this qualifies as proof.
Cheaters exist - fact.
Many players have faced a cheat - fact
Many players have never faced a cheat - fact.
I don’t see the problem with people citing anecdotal evidence in a thread like this - so long as what they are saying is factual. CG certainly aren’t being transparent on the amount of cheats they catch, so anecdotal statements is all we can work with.
It's not really about cheating. It's about how cheating is being handled.
And we're just talking about OBVIOUS, blatant cheaters. There's a good number of people that won't ever be caught because they dont use it in PVP, but I guarantee they use it for conquest, assault battles, galactic challenges. Those don't get reported at all.
At least my comment got us into the more interesting side-topic about exposure to cheaters being related to one's level in the game. That it also led to the side-topic of me was less.
How would me posting that as a comment be relevant to the discussion? Either I'd be a pointless distraction or I'd be insinuating something. The former is troll-y and the latter insinuates something ridiculous since there very clearly are a non-negligible amount of cheaters out there.
Or, it's just one's personal experience with cheaters in the game. Don't get all dramatic.
I think it's interesting that normally people are pretty fast (rightfully) called out for anecdotal evidence when they base their opinion or assumptions only on their own experiences and yet now all of a sudden it's just being dramatic when it gets called out.
I’m not sure I follow your position on this. Why can’t people provide anecdotal statements on the prevalence of cheating? If I’ve never faced one in 6.75 years of playing, why is that any less valid than someone saying they have faced a cheat?
Nobody could dispute that there are cheaters. The first post in this thread is all the proof anyone needs to see that this is true.
But the waters get unnecessarily muddied when people make ridiculous claims like
Also, I face a suspected cheater almost every GAC. My guess is about 20% of the players cheat. Most do it just enough to seem reasonable.
It’s perfectly reasonable for people to be sceptical or even cynical about claims like that. Especially when that poster’s GAC history is clearly visible to anyone that looks and can see for themselves that absolutely none of his results look in the least bit suspicious stretching back many months. In fact, the only concrete “example” he cited does not match any of his recent matches at all and it’s laughable that someone thinks that this qualifies as proof.
Cheaters exist - fact.
Many players have faced a cheat - fact
Many players have never faced a cheat - fact.
I don’t see the problem with people citing anecdotal evidence in a thread like this - so long as what they are saying is factual. CG certainly aren’t being transparent on the amount of cheats they catch, so anecdotal statements is all we can work with.
Quite well, yes, but without addressing why people have made statements like “I’ve never met a cheater”.
- one poster claims to face a cheater almost every GAC, and that around 20% of all cheaters cheat (which is a ludicrous claim)
- The OP posted a laughing emoji when someone pointed out they had never faced a cheater, though later clarified that this wasn’t incredulity at this statement
- You yourself said this:
-
In general, I just don't think it's good, that those who do not face (so many) cheaters seem to use their experience as a basis to doubt others when they state that they face them more(regularly).
I’ve had to make do with reading and re-reading this thread for the last 2 weeks during my forum holiday, and I just don’t see why you said that.
There is exactly one person in this thread that I doubt - and I know I’m not alone. And I challenge you to engage with that poster’s GAC history and tell me you don’t doubt them too.
The forums need doubt, scrutiny and accountability. There is a small cabal of CG-haters that make outlandish claims and anyone that calls these claims into question are instantly labelled CG apologists. If someone came on here and accused CG of stealing the Lindbergh Baby, I’m sure the CG-haters would roll their eyes at anyone doubting that.
TL;DR: where there are exaggerated claims, and evidence that contradicts those claims, there is doubt.
Also - CG need to raise their game. If they had an employee genuinely working on cheaters, every single one of the perpetrators highlighted in the OP would be banned in a heartbeat. If it takes any longer than 1 working day to ban those players, something is rotten and needs fixed.
How would me posting that as a comment be relevant to the discussion? Either I'd be a pointless distraction or I'd be insinuating something. The former is troll-y and the latter insinuates something ridiculous since there very clearly are a non-negligible amount of cheaters out there.
Or, it's just one's personal experience with cheaters in the game. Don't get all dramatic.
I think it's interesting that normally people are pretty fast (rightfully) called out for anecdotal evidence when they base their opinion or assumptions only on their own experiences and yet now all of a sudden it's just being dramatic when it gets called out.
I’m not sure I follow your position on this. Why can’t people provide anecdotal statements on the prevalence of cheating? If I’ve never faced one in 6.75 years of playing, why is that any less valid than someone saying they have faced a cheat?
Nobody could dispute that there are cheaters. The first post in this thread is all the proof anyone needs to see that this is true.
But the waters get unnecessarily muddied when people make ridiculous claims like
Also, I face a suspected cheater almost every GAC. My guess is about 20% of the players cheat. Most do it just enough to seem reasonable.
It’s perfectly reasonable for people to be sceptical or even cynical about claims like that. Especially when that poster’s GAC history is clearly visible to anyone that looks and can see for themselves that absolutely none of his results look in the least bit suspicious stretching back many months. In fact, the only concrete “example” he cited does not match any of his recent matches at all and it’s laughable that someone thinks that this qualifies as proof.
Cheaters exist - fact.
Many players have faced a cheat - fact
Many players have never faced a cheat - fact.
I don’t see the problem with people citing anecdotal evidence in a thread like this - so long as what they are saying is factual. CG certainly aren’t being transparent on the amount of cheats they catch, so anecdotal statements is all we can work with.
Quite well, yes, but without addressing why people have made statements like “I’ve never met a cheater”.
- one poster claims to face a cheater almost every GAC, and that around 20% of all cheaters cheat (which is a ludicrous claim)
- The OP posted a laughing emoji when someone pointed out they had never faced a cheater, though later clarified that this wasn’t incredulity at this statement
- You yourself said this:
-
In general, I just don't think it's good, that those who do not face (so many) cheaters seem to use their experience as a basis to doubt others when they state that they face them more(regularly).
I’ve had to make do with reading and re-reading this thread for the last 2 weeks during my forum holiday, and I just don’t see why you said that.
There is exactly one person in this thread that I doubt - and I know I’m not alone. And I challenge you to engage with that poster’s GAC history and tell me you don’t doubt them too.
The forums need doubt, scrutiny and accountability. There is a small cabal of CG-haters that make outlandish claims and anyone that calls these claims into question are instantly labelled CG apologists. If someone came on here and accused CG of stealing the Lindbergh Baby, I’m sure the CG-haters would roll their eyes at anyone doubting that.
TL;DR: where there are exaggerated claims, and evidence that contradicts those claims, there is doubt.
Also - CG need to raise their game. If they had an employee genuinely working on cheaters, every single one of the perpetrators highlighted in the OP would be banned in a heartbeat. If it takes any longer than 1 working day to ban those players, something is rotten and needs fixed.
I would like to repeat:
I think it's interesting that normally people are pretty fast (rightfully) called out for anecdotal evidence when they base their opinion or assumptions only on their own experiences and yet now all of a sudden it's just being dramatic when it gets called out.
The forums are full of comments where people write " anecdotal evidence"... rightfully so. When you then see some of those exact commenters write things like
"I've never faced a cheater"
"Or, it's just one's personal experience with cheaters in the game. Don't get all dramatic."
then you really start to wonder how it is ok to measure with double standards. You can not have it both ways. If you call out others for using anecdotal evidence but then do so yourself, you should understand that you might be called out for it aswell.
And as stated before by some people here including myself, this is about CG's handling of cheaters and who or how many people face how many cheaters doesn't matter. There are enough cheaters still kicking that make it obvious that not enough is being done.
Replies
Are you okay?
Your question suggests you either misread the tone or misappropriated my last post ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Much higher chance of seeing cheaters in Kyber - they are just smarter.
You think people are more likely to cheat in kyber than early game with less than < 2 million GP???
Are you okay?
If only CG put more effort into countering cheating so they could provide statistics and we didn't have to theorize about where the cheaters are...
Isn't that 90% of these forums?
Just 90%?
I think it's interesting that normally people are pretty fast (rightfully) called out for anecdotal evidence when they base their opinion or assumptions only on their own experiences and yet now all of a sudden it's just being dramatic when it gets called out.
Excellent post…mic drop. I guess that is why those people are called trolls
Nobody could dispute that there are cheaters. The first post in this thread is all the proof anyone needs to see that this is true.
But the waters get unnecessarily muddied when people make ridiculous claims like It’s perfectly reasonable for people to be sceptical or even cynical about claims like that. Especially when that poster’s GAC history is clearly visible to anyone that looks and can see for themselves that absolutely none of his results look in the least bit suspicious stretching back many months. In fact, the only concrete “example” he cited does not match any of his recent matches at all and it’s laughable that someone thinks that this qualifies as proof.
Cheaters exist - fact.
Many players have faced a cheat - fact
Many players have never faced a cheat - fact.
I don’t see the problem with people citing anecdotal evidence in a thread like this - so long as what they are saying is factual. CG certainly aren’t being transparent on the amount of cheats they catch, so anecdotal statements is all we can work with.
"I've never seen cheaters" - trolling, gaslighting, anecdotal
If I’ve never faced one in 6.75 years of playing, why is that any less valid than someone saying they have faced a cheat?
How do you know? Whether it was in the old GAC or in fleet arena or squad arena, can you be 100% sure you have never faced a cheater?
I’ve pasted it below if you’ve forgotten it or haven’t read the book (it’s a good book if you’ve not). Anyway, this debate made me think about it. I think the point is that we can’t ever quantify the extent of the problem but we can reasonably ask CG to have some openness about their policy & procedures and to acknowledge players’ concerns - regardless of the epidemiology of cheating across the game.
“There are three men on a train. One of them is an economist and one of them is a logician and one of them is a mathematician. And they have just crossed the border into Scotland (I don’t know why they are going to Scotland) and they see a brown cow standing in a field from the window of the train (and the cow is standing parallel to the train). And the economist says, “Look, the cows in Scotland are brown.” And the logician says, “No. There are cows in Scotland of which one at least is brown.” And the mathematician says, “No. There is at least one cow in Scotland, of which one side appears to be brown.”
Because the presence of even a small amount of cheating is deemed unacceptable by many.
Because the fact that you haven't seen them fits into one of the categories above. Also, I don't recall anyone accusing of you gaslighting.
I see it more like a town hall meeting. A handful of people have appeared to present their grievances that X has happened a few times in their neighborhood, they have proof that it has happened, and they'd like the city to do something to prevent it from happening again. Then, someone in the gallery who doesn't even live in their neighborhood stands up to tell everyone that no such thing has happened in their neighborhood and then sits back down.
It's not gatekeeping. I'm not suggesting you "shut your mouth" or anything like that. I'm explaining to you why your comment was received the way it was.
No one said you implied cheating was acceptable. I said it was implied that you think the amount of cheating is so small as to not be worthy of CG's time/energy.
@Ragnarok_COTF already explained it quite well.
And we're just talking about OBVIOUS, blatant cheaters. There's a good number of people that won't ever be caught because they dont use it in PVP, but I guarantee they use it for conquest, assault battles, galactic challenges. Those don't get reported at all.
I apologize for assuming things you don't believe and didn't explicitly state. I am glad that you agree with OP on this one. Cheers
- one poster claims to face a cheater almost every GAC, and that around 20% of all cheaters cheat (which is a ludicrous claim)
- The OP posted a laughing emoji when someone pointed out they had never faced a cheater, though later clarified that this wasn’t incredulity at this statement
- You yourself said this:
-
I’ve had to make do with reading and re-reading this thread for the last 2 weeks during my forum holiday, and I just don’t see why you said that.
There is exactly one person in this thread that I doubt - and I know I’m not alone. And I challenge you to engage with that poster’s GAC history and tell me you don’t doubt them too.
The forums need doubt, scrutiny and accountability. There is a small cabal of CG-haters that make outlandish claims and anyone that calls these claims into question are instantly labelled CG apologists. If someone came on here and accused CG of stealing the Lindbergh Baby, I’m sure the CG-haters would roll their eyes at anyone doubting that.
TL;DR: where there are exaggerated claims, and evidence that contradicts those claims, there is doubt.
Also - CG need to raise their game. If they had an employee genuinely working on cheaters, every single one of the perpetrators highlighted in the OP would be banned in a heartbeat. If it takes any longer than 1 working day to ban those players, something is rotten and needs fixed.
I would like to repeat:
I think it's interesting that normally people are pretty fast (rightfully) called out for anecdotal evidence when they base their opinion or assumptions only on their own experiences and yet now all of a sudden it's just being dramatic when it gets called out.
The forums are full of comments where people write " anecdotal evidence"... rightfully so. When you then see some of those exact commenters write things like
"I've never faced a cheater"
"Or, it's just one's personal experience with cheaters in the game. Don't get all dramatic."
then you really start to wonder how it is ok to measure with double standards. You can not have it both ways. If you call out others for using anecdotal evidence but then do so yourself, you should understand that you might be called out for it aswell.
And as stated before by some people here including myself, this is about CG's handling of cheaters and who or how many people face how many cheaters doesn't matter. There are enough cheaters still kicking that make it obvious that not enough is being done.