I think there's a disconnect in what we perceive to be meta-defining. I realize fleet arena still has crystals, but I care more about the GAC meta than the arena meta. And it has altered the fleet meta landscape meaningfully in GAC.
If I cared more about the fleet arena meta, yeah, I'd find Levi a pretty underwhelming advance in the meta.
How long have you been doing public relations for CG now? lol
These jokes never get old.
If it was "the best of the best" we wouldn't be able to beat it with even one fleet with just three ships. That's not "Meta defining". It's just not. (That's even without all the bugs that keep happening.)
Yeah, we got it - the only right answer for you is for Leviathan to not have a counter. I'd bet hard cash that if that's what we had, you'd be here complaining that nothing can beat it.
The fact is, Executor is no longer a reliable option for climbing in fleet arena - where before, it was perfectly fine. Executor struggles to beat this fleet, and the Executor/Profundity meta has been disrupted. By any objective measure, Leviathan has redefined the fleet meta. This is indisputable. To claim otherwise is simply false. This is not a case where repeating the lie often enough will make it true. But if you REALLY believe that, or if the axe you're grinding obliges you to - by all means, keep telling people the meta hasn't changed. Hopefully that means fewer people will unlock it and my own advantage in having it will be all the more pronounced.
CG wants to up the cost players pay for new shinies, but doesn't want to match that increased cost with a return in quality because QA isn't a priority for them, allegedly.
They can't even make sure it works right before release because they're afraid of beta testers.
I've been clear about my thoughts on this. Your assumption is wrong. This was a terrible release and CG should be embarrassed by it, but not for the reasons you're insisting on. You know that software companies sometimes knowingly cut buggy releases, right? You're desperately trying to paint them as incompetent - which is laughable to anyone that's paid even a little bit of attention to the games financial track record.
Oh and by the way, if the Mark VI comes in after you sabotage the hangar, it doesn't insta-kill, but it will insta-kill one of your units when it does a basic! Yay, so meta definining and truly BEST OF THE BEST, With honors, Sir!
At least make it work the way it's supposed to so we can be sure it sucks or not? Pretty please?
I climb with it every day, always reinforce M6 after using StH, and I haven't once seen this happen since I unlocked it. Have you reported this to AnswersHQ?
Plenty of people have been using it since release and established that it's a strong fleet - even before the bug fixes (of which there are more needed). Plenty of high profile players have gone on record saying it's a strong fleet. Since people in the know seem to feel that way, and your feelings on it are so completely contrary to that view, have you considered that maybe you're using it wrong?
Not sure if anyone else has seen this or if it's been reported, but when I use sabotage the hangers 2nd, it doesn't work? I'm 5* vs 7* mostly so could be something in the kit I'm missing?
For Leviathan to be a meta defining capital ship, they need to make the Crit damage immunity undispellable to stop Profundity and Tie Defender counters.
For Leviathan to be feel enjoyable and make some good damage and not waiting behind a tank the whole time until Mark VI RI. They should just adjust Malak's ship more damage based or Buff Tie Daggers DPS ( This Leviathan situation is almost like LV but there are no DC to make the fleet better ) so there is no escape rather than buffing the fleet's damage somehow. If they want Leviathan to be META DEFINING.
Edit: upon further reflection, stopping crits entirely would probably eliminate the main win condition for Profundity.. so no, I don’t think this would be the right move.
For Leviathan to be a meta defining capital ship, they need to make the Crit damage immunity undispellable to stop Profundity and Tie Defender counters.
For Leviathan to be feel enjoyable and make some good damage and not waiting behind a tank the whole time until Mark VI RI. They should just adjust Malak's ship more damage based or Buff Tie Daggers DPS ( This Leviathan situation is almost like LV but there are no DC to make the fleet better ) so there is no escape rather than buffing the fleet's damage somehow. If they want Leviathan to be META DEFINING.
What if buffing SASSy with "gain 1 ferocity whenever lose ferocity(can't gain more than 1 this way)"
and adding to her basic ''inflict debuff that prevents enemies from cleansing for 1 turn, which can't be resisted or evaded?''.
Edit: upon further reflection, stopping crits entirely would probably eliminate the main win condition for Profundity.. so no, I don’t think this would be the right move.
It doesn't have to be like that, though.
Think about this tweak to Sabotage the Engines: Currently ALL Sith allies gain CritImmunity and TARGET Sith Ally gains Breach Immunity.
What about changing it to:
Sith Allies gain Critical Hit Immunity and 5 stacks of Ferocity for 2 turns, and target Sith Ally gains Critical Hit Immunity for 2 turns (cannot be prevented or dispelled) and Breach Immunity for 3 turns.
Now, on offense this is pretty darn great. On defense it's not as powerful b/c the AI won't necessarily pick the best ship to target. But it would make offensive Profundity victories slightly harder, and with bad RNG the AI targets exactly the ship you want to focus down and things get MUCH harder.
This means a few more holds without destroying the counter, and it means on Offense (when you get to pick the ship to gain Immunity) victories over Profundity become even easier, making Levi feel more meta-defining.
In mirror matches it's also one more decision that the AI can make sub-optimally. Sure, it probably won't affect things, but it won't hurt the mirror situation either.
Defined in that manner, it sounds like it would be better tuned for the outcome you stated, rather than stopping Profundity cold.
I’m still a bit partial to the protection disabling and/or negating outmaneuver idea in theory, but I think either pathway could tender the desires results!
I just hope CG is paying attention, because I think we actually have some good ideas here on how to tweak the kit without completely overhauling it, that would still allow counters to take place, but at a level of difficulty that feels more commensurate with the investment required to get the ship in the first place.
Not sure if anyone else has seen this or if it's been reported, but when I use sabotage the hangers 2nd, it doesn't work? I'm 5* vs 7* mostly so could be something in the kit I'm missing?
Define "doesn't work".... If you are expecting the reinforcement to insta-die you need 7 stars...
Not sure if anyone else has seen this or if it's been reported, but when I use sabotage the hangers 2nd, it doesn't work? I'm 5* vs 7* mostly so could be something in the kit I'm missing?
Define "doesn't work".... If you are expecting the reinforcement to insta-die you need 7 stars...
Apparently "doesn't work" was in reference to my brain... I could have sworn non-levi opponents had their reinforcements instantly dying before but I guess I wasn't paying attention.
Another bug: in TW, I got 21 banners for a full win without loss. Maybe it counts the last ship against me because I took over the other fleet? Ridiculous. Anyone else seen this?
Another bug: in TW, I got 21 banners for a full win without loss. Maybe it counts the last ship against me because I took over the other fleet? Ridiculous. Anyone else seen this?
Do you have a max Leviathan? If not, you lose the point for the slot you can’t use (2 if your Leviathan is only 4 stars.
is this META? When u get beaten only by using 2 reinforcement and not by Exe or Profu if feels like **** from CG - the ship really need to get impovement- they ask 2 R9 chars + conquest chars and it get owned to easy buy low fleet
For the record, I'm okay with this counter. Kits are complicated. This is using a series of kits in a specific way to defeat this one fleet. That's great. That's good theory crafting.
It also means that your fleet isn't going to hold on defense AT ALL. Which is fine game balance. There are glass cannons, and then there are single-use glass cannons. This is more like the latter. It's not exactly single use (there are, of course, other fleets it could beat), but it's constructed for a single purpose, does that well, and doesn't do anything else particularly well.
This kind of thing is great for Fleet Arena, but it limits the use of another fleet (the Tarkin/Scythe fleet, which is strong against a number of fleets, esp against profundity since you're compromising your ability to use the Empire fleet designed to counter Profundity using TIE/Bomber).
But when you get to GAC, this counter essentially means that your Empire can EITHER counter Profundity OR counter Levi, but not both.
Another bug: in TW, I got 21 banners for a full win without loss. Maybe it counts the last ship against me because I took over the other fleet? Ridiculous. Anyone else seen this?
Do you have a max Leviathan? If not, you lose the point for the slot you can’t use (2 if your Leviathan is only 4 stars.
I’m so confused now post patch, in arena, I just faced Levi with fury, bomber and assassins ship. I had the dagger line up because I was just switching fleets out. I got to both specials first so in theory their first reinforcement should have been instantly destroyed, right? Instead the Mk 6 arrived with 40 stacks. Next move, I got the ultimate. Then I brought in the assassins ship to sacrifice it and it did indeed blow up. I then brought in my mk6 and should have gotten 150 stacks. I used basic. And killed their bomber. Next turn I tried to kill their fury with my mk6 that had 100 stacks and it did not one shot on basic. What is going on?
I’m so confused now post patch, in arena, I just faced Levi with fury, bomber and assassins ship. I had the dagger line up because I was just switching fleets out. I got to both specials first so in theory their first reinforcement should have been instantly destroyed, right? Instead the Mk 6 arrived with 40 stacks. Next move, I got the ultimate. Then I brought in the assassins ship to sacrifice it and it did indeed blow up. I then brought in my mk6 and should have gotten 150 stacks. I used basic. And killed their bomber. Next turn I tried to kill their fury with my mk6 that had 100 stacks and it did not one shot on basic. What is going on?
The meta defining capital ship is still bugged with a few bugs.
My fully maxed Leviathan fleet is getting killed for 78 banners in gac
That is Profundity + 2 ships lol
This definitely isn't the fleet that was advertised
I think its great that many people are suggesting potential ways to make Levi better. It would be nice to get some word from CG on this, considering this is one of the most active threads in a long time. How does CG view its performance? Considering the hype and reqs for it, I am disappointed in it currently
I’m so confused now post patch, in arena, I just faced Levi with fury, bomber and assassins ship. I had the dagger line up because I was just switching fleets out. I got to both specials first so in theory their first reinforcement should have been instantly destroyed, right? Instead the Mk 6 arrived with 40 stacks. Next move, I got the ultimate. Then I brought in the assassins ship to sacrifice it and it did indeed blow up. I then brought in my mk6 and should have gotten 150 stacks. I used basic. And killed their bomber. Next turn I tried to kill their fury with my mk6 that had 100 stacks and it did not one shot on basic. What is going on?
I’m so confused now post patch, in arena, I just faced Levi with fury, bomber and assassins ship. I had the dagger line up because I was just switching fleets out. I got to both specials first so in theory their first reinforcement should have been instantly destroyed, right? Instead the Mk 6 arrived with 40 stacks. Next move, I got the ultimate. Then I brought in the assassins ship to sacrifice it and it did indeed blow up. I then brought in my mk6 and should have gotten 150 stacks. I used basic. And killed their bomber. Next turn I tried to kill their fury with my mk6 that had 100 stacks and it did not one shot on basic. What is going on?
MK 6 is immune to max health changes.....
hmmm, not sure how that answers /explains the poster's question. they're asking why MK VI annihilate didn't work on Fury. seems like it should have if they had over 40 stacks. what does max health change immunity have to do with it?
I’m so confused now post patch, in arena, I just faced Levi with fury, bomber and assassins ship. I had the dagger line up because I was just switching fleets out. I got to both specials first so in theory their first reinforcement should have been instantly destroyed, right? Instead the Mk 6 arrived with 40 stacks. Next move, I got the ultimate. Then I brought in the assassins ship to sacrifice it and it did indeed blow up. I then brought in my mk6 and should have gotten 150 stacks. I used basic. And killed their bomber. Next turn I tried to kill their fury with my mk6 that had 100 stacks and it did not one shot on basic. What is going on?
MK 6 is immune to max health changes.....
I looked at the question again and thought maybe you're referring to why the opp mk vi didn't get insta-killed when reinforced? but I think that's due to it starting with Devouring Swarm, and it can't be defeated or destroyed while it has any stacks (although kit could be clearer), not anything related to max health change
I’m so confused now post patch, in arena, I just faced Levi with fury, bomber and assassins ship. I had the dagger line up because I was just switching fleets out. I got to both specials first so in theory their first reinforcement should have been instantly destroyed, right? Instead the Mk 6 arrived with 40 stacks. Next move, I got the ultimate. Then I brought in the assassins ship to sacrifice it and it did indeed blow up. I then brought in my mk6 and should have gotten 150 stacks. I used basic. And killed their bomber. Next turn I tried to kill their fury with my mk6 that had 100 stacks and it did not one shot on basic. What is going on?
MK 6 is immune to max health changes.....
I looked at the question again and thought maybe you're referring to why the opp mk vi didn't get insta-killed when reinforced? but I think that's due to it starting with Devouring Swarm, and it can't be defeated or destroyed while it has any stacks (although kit could be clearer), not anything related to max health change
I’m so confused now post patch, in arena, I just faced Levi with fury, bomber and assassins ship. I had the dagger line up because I was just switching fleets out. I got to both specials first so in theory their first reinforcement should have been instantly destroyed, right? Instead the Mk 6 arrived with 40 stacks. Next move, I got the ultimate. Then I brought in the assassins ship to sacrifice it and it did indeed blow up. I then brought in my mk6 and should have gotten 150 stacks. I used basic. And killed their bomber. Next turn I tried to kill their fury with my mk6 that had 100 stacks and it did not one shot on basic. What is going on?
MK 6 is immune to max health changes.....
I looked at the question again and thought maybe you're referring to why the opp mk vi didn't get insta-killed when reinforced? but I think that's due to it starting with Devouring Swarm, and it can't be defeated or destroyed while it has any stacks (although kit could be clearer), not anything related to max health change
I was referring to this....
Yes, but what does that have to do with the post you were responding to? That post says nothing about max health on the mk6.
Profundity or Levi? Considering you have executor. I horded for Levi but if I can put mats elsewhere it would be huge.
Depends on how close you are to each. Eventually you'll want them both. Right now, as Levi currently is, I would say Profun is the better ship, offensively and defensively, and less prone to rng swings
Replies
If I cared more about the fleet arena meta, yeah, I'd find Levi a pretty underwhelming advance in the meta.
Whatever you say...
Edit: upon further reflection, stopping crits entirely would probably eliminate the main win condition for Profundity.. so no, I don’t think this would be the right move.
and adding to her basic ''inflict debuff that prevents enemies from cleansing for 1 turn, which can't be resisted or evaded?''.
It doesn't have to be like that, though.
Think about this tweak to Sabotage the Engines: Currently ALL Sith allies gain CritImmunity and TARGET Sith Ally gains Breach Immunity.
What about changing it to:
Sith Allies gain Critical Hit Immunity and 5 stacks of Ferocity for 2 turns, and target Sith Ally gains Critical Hit Immunity for 2 turns (cannot be prevented or dispelled) and Breach Immunity for 3 turns.
Now, on offense this is pretty darn great. On defense it's not as powerful b/c the AI won't necessarily pick the best ship to target. But it would make offensive Profundity victories slightly harder, and with bad RNG the AI targets exactly the ship you want to focus down and things get MUCH harder.
This means a few more holds without destroying the counter, and it means on Offense (when you get to pick the ship to gain Immunity) victories over Profundity become even easier, making Levi feel more meta-defining.
In mirror matches it's also one more decision that the AI can make sub-optimally. Sure, it probably won't affect things, but it won't hurt the mirror situation either.
I’m still a bit partial to the protection disabling and/or negating outmaneuver idea in theory, but I think either pathway could tender the desires results!
I just hope CG is paying attention, because I think we actually have some good ideas here on how to tweak the kit without completely overhauling it, that would still allow counters to take place, but at a level of difficulty that feels more commensurate with the investment required to get the ship in the first place.
Define "doesn't work".... If you are expecting the reinforcement to insta-die you need 7 stars...
Apparently "doesn't work" was in reference to my brain... I could have sworn non-levi opponents had their reinforcements instantly dying before but I guess I wasn't paying attention.
Do you have a max Leviathan? If not, you lose the point for the slot you can’t use (2 if your Leviathan is only 4 stars.
For the record, I'm okay with this counter. Kits are complicated. This is using a series of kits in a specific way to defeat this one fleet. That's great. That's good theory crafting.
It also means that your fleet isn't going to hold on defense AT ALL. Which is fine game balance. There are glass cannons, and then there are single-use glass cannons. This is more like the latter. It's not exactly single use (there are, of course, other fleets it could beat), but it's constructed for a single purpose, does that well, and doesn't do anything else particularly well.
This kind of thing is great for Fleet Arena, but it limits the use of another fleet (the Tarkin/Scythe fleet, which is strong against a number of fleets, esp against profundity since you're compromising your ability to use the Empire fleet designed to counter Profundity using TIE/Bomber).
But when you get to GAC, this counter essentially means that your Empire can EITHER counter Profundity OR counter Levi, but not both.
This seems like a fine balance.
Would you rather have Profundity and Leviathan, or have two Profunditys?
An intriguing question. I assume a 3rd option would be 2 Leviathans.
The current state of the GAC fleet meta seems to be that there are an abundance of counters. So I'm not sure which I'd prefer.
I have a 2nd Prof-level ship, which I like having. It was a nice bonus to finally have incentive to r9 Malak and r7 SET.
I am kind of along this line of thinking.... The Sith Empire team is pretty awesome...
Ah, right. I forgot that piece of silliness.
The meta defining capital ship is still bugged with a few bugs.
That is Profundity + 2 ships lol
This definitely isn't the fleet that was advertised
MK 6 is immune to max health changes.....
hmmm, not sure how that answers /explains the poster's question. they're asking why MK VI annihilate didn't work on Fury. seems like it should have if they had over 40 stacks. what does max health change immunity have to do with it?
I looked at the question again and thought maybe you're referring to why the opp mk vi didn't get insta-killed when reinforced? but I think that's due to it starting with Devouring Swarm, and it can't be defeated or destroyed while it has any stacks (although kit could be clearer), not anything related to max health change
Profundity or Levi? Considering you have executor. I horded for Levi but if I can put mats elsewhere it would be huge.
I was referring to this....
Yes, but what does that have to do with the post you were responding to? That post says nothing about max health on the mk6.
Depends on how close you are to each. Eventually you'll want them both. Right now, as Levi currently is, I would say Profun is the better ship, offensively and defensively, and less prone to rng swings