I don't know where you come from, but 85-88% isn't a "hard counter" to me.
98%+ is a hard counter to me. (Some people will go in drastically undergeared on a prayer, but there will also be a few rare losses when things just don't go your way)
The more important point is the win rate is nearly double that of the win rate of FO vs. Exec, and that point is taken, but let's not exaggerate and call something a "hard counter" when that's not really what it is.
I don't know where you come from, but 85-88% isn't a "hard counter" to me.
98%+ is a hard counter to me. (Some people will go in drastically undergeared on a prayer, but there will also be a few rare losses when things just don't go your way)
The more important point is the win rate is nearly double that of the win rate of FO vs. Exec, and that point is taken, but let's not exaggerate and call something a "hard counter" when that's not really what it is.
I'm inclined to believe that many of those losses played it wrong. My sample size is still small, but I haven't seen a fail in my guild that wasn't the result of player error.
That said, I'm okay with a reliable counter. I did not enjoy the early Exec days where soft counter RNG was too often the decider. YMMV
I don't know where you come from, but 85-88% isn't a "hard counter" to me.
98%+ is a hard counter to me. (Some people will go in drastically undergeared on a prayer, but there will also be a few rare losses when things just don't go your way)
The more important point is the win rate is nearly double that of the win rate of FO vs. Exec, and that point is taken, but let's not exaggerate and call something a "hard counter" when that's not really what it is.
I would call 88% using only 3 ships and getting 76 banners a hard counter....
Just to be clear the Fear on ultimate is bugged correct? It should operate the same as Drevans land skill, right?
The enemies get fear but still take their turn and that is not how it should work, correct?
I saw a suggestion that the order in which actions are happening is causing fear not to 'seem' to be working when concussion mines are also present. Fear is dispelled by receiving damage, so if the enemy toons are taking damage from the concussion mines 'before' their turn then that would dispel the fear and they would take a turn as usual.
Account started June 2020. 100% FTP. 8.2m GP. JMK, JML, SLKR, and SEE. Exe and Levi. Ally code 117-269-921. Swgoh.gg
I'm inclined to believe that many of those losses played it wrong. My sample size is still small, but I haven't seen a fail in my guild that wasn't the result of player error.
Yeah, this phenomenon is why I'm willing to allow anything short of 100% to be called a "hard counter" since many hard counters are only such if you actually use the right abilities at the right times.
It didn't strike me as plausible (when I was originally writing) that that many people would be playing it wrong, but... if they are, then I would accept that as a "hard counter" that is a combination of toons and strategy, with many people missing the 2nd element.
I am also with you that a reliable counter is fine, and which ship should that be except Profundity.
Many a making a big deal of the fact that the counter doesn't use reinforcements, but ... Levi sabotages reinforcements, so you can't have a counter that depends on reinforcements. It's a no-reinforcement counter or nothing against Levi, and there has to be a counter.
I'm inclined to believe that many of those losses played it wrong. My sample size is still small, but I haven't seen a fail in my guild that wasn't the result of player error.
Yeah, this phenomenon is why I'm willing to allow anything short of 100% to be called a "hard counter" since many hard counters are only such if you actually use the right abilities at the right times.
It didn't strike me as plausible (when I was originally writing) that that many people would be playing it wrong, but... if they are, then I would accept that as a "hard counter" that is a combination of toons and strategy, with many people missing the 2nd element.
I am also with you that a reliable counter is fine, and which ship should that be except Profundity.
Many a making a big deal of the fact that the counter doesn't use reinforcements, but ... Levi sabotages reinforcements, so you can't have a counter that depends on reinforcements. It's a no-reinforcement counter or nothing against Levi, and there has to be a counter.
Levi (If 7 stars) only sabotages the first RI after "Sabotage the Hangars" is used.... The AI prioritizes "Sabotage the Engines" as it should, then it brings out it's own RI next.... Plenty of time for Prof to bring in an RI ....
Hmmm... I've definitely had fights where the hangars were sabotaged before my 2nd Prof turn. But the point is moot. The fight is simply an ult race. The fastest path to ult in this fight is to pass a bonus turn to a low TM Falcon/Outrider. Between the Prof fleet recovery and lack of burst damage from Levi early, there's just no danger in skipping the RI.
I wish I took screen shots for proof but it's only happened once so far.
Has anyone else got after you sabotage the hanger and they reinforce Sith Empire Trooper ship but instead of destruction it dropped down to 10 stacks? (It was the second reinforcement)
Also I don't think Ferocity is not working on the offense side, not sure about the defense side.
I wish I took screen shots for proof but it's only happened once so far.
Has anyone else got after you sabotage the hanger and they reinforce Sith Empire Trooper ship but instead of destruction it dropped down to 10 stacks? (It was the second reinforcement)
Isn’t that ship immune to instant defeat mechanics? Surely it can only be defeated when it loses all its stacks?
I wish I took screen shots for proof but it's only happened once so far.
Has anyone else got after you sabotage the hanger and they reinforce Sith Empire Trooper ship but instead of destruction it dropped down to 10 stacks? (It was the second reinforcement)
Isn’t that ship immune to instant defeat mechanics? Surely it can only be defeated when it loses all its stacks?
It doesn't say anything about instant defeat, just that it can't be killed while it has stacks.
I wish I took screen shots for proof but it's only happened once so far.
Has anyone else got after you sabotage the hanger and they reinforce Sith Empire Trooper ship but instead of destruction it dropped down to 10 stacks? (It was the second reinforcement)
Isn’t that ship immune to instant defeat mechanics? Surely it can only be defeated when it loses all its stacks?
It doesn't say anything about instant defeat, just that it can't be killed while it has stacks.
“… and can’t be defeated or destroyed while it has Devouring Storm.”
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for life.
The mental gymnastics arguing that "it's fine" are always fascinating when something new isn't performing as expected.
The bottom line is Profundity is a 100% counter.. and with no reinforcements at that. I'm certain this isn't meeting CG's expectations.. we just have to blow in the wind as they silently do something about it.
The mental gymnastics arguing that "it's fine" are always fascinating when something new isn't performing as expected.
The bottom line is Profundity is a 100% counter.. and with no reinforcements at that. I'm certain this isn't meeting CG's expectations.. we just have to blow in the wind as they silently do something about it.
All that some people have is mental gymnastics to exercise each day.
Any fleet that can beat another reliably with only three ships is a "hard counter". Some won't accept that no matter what you say. (Even if CG said it shouldn't work like that) they'd still be defending the programming.
While I’d agree Prof is countering reliably enough to be a hard counter, it’s not a 100% counter, I climb through at least four maxed Levis every day, it is possible to lose the match with Prof, either because Outrider gets too many assists and blows himself up with concussion mines early, or because the AI prioritizes the Ult over the second RI and Levi uses the Ult early. It’s rare but it does happen.
The mental gymnastics arguing that "it's fine" are always fascinating when something new isn't performing as expected.
The bottom line is Profundity is a 100% counter.. and with no reinforcements at that. I'm certain this isn't meeting CG's expectations.. we just have to blow in the wind as they silently do something about it.
AI with MK6 needs also some adjustments because if this ship reinforce it never take use if it's basic insta kill (stacks are much higher than 40)
Instead MK6 uses both specials first, and soonest the 3rd move may be a basic one
Thank you CG for looking into this and responding! To everyone who claimed that Levi was "surpassing" the META as-is, apparently the ship was in fact not performing as expected by CG. I look forward to the announced changes
Short CG today: yeah, we know Profundity can beat it without some thought and effort, but what we want is for to take your coin-flip mirror matches and like it!
Also Executor was not a huge step up on defense when it came out. It was being beat by FO day one and that continues to this day.
‘Counter’ isn’t the issue. Hard counter is.
Yeah use chimera with gear 12 iden, 5 star gear 8 tie interceptor, vader, tie fighter and a random empire ally and all of sudden u are at 85% to 100% counter chance vs executor.
Use executrix with sith bomber, palpatins shuttle, fury interceptor, and tie bomber as reinforcement and all of sudden u got 90% success rate against profundity.
Just remember if they make it so the counter becomes a pain in you know what and a mirror is coin flip to see who wins and you all start crying in forums about how bad it is, you all have no one but yourselves to blame
There should be a counter to Levi, it’s that simple. Profundity isn’t a guaranteed win, so I hope CG doesn’t mess with that. Pro is a huge investment as well. People who have invested in it shouldn’t get screwed completely over by Levi getting a ridiculous buff.
Replies
‘Counter’ isn’t the issue. Hard counter is.
98%+ is a hard counter to me. (Some people will go in drastically undergeared on a prayer, but there will also be a few rare losses when things just don't go your way)
The more important point is the win rate is nearly double that of the win rate of FO vs. Exec, and that point is taken, but let's not exaggerate and call something a "hard counter" when that's not really what it is.
I'm inclined to believe that many of those losses played it wrong. My sample size is still small, but I haven't seen a fail in my guild that wasn't the result of player error.
That said, I'm okay with a reliable counter. I did not enjoy the early Exec days where soft counter RNG was too often the decider. YMMV
I would call 88% using only 3 ships and getting 76 banners a hard counter....
The enemies get fear but still take their turn and that is not how it should work, correct?
Yeah, this phenomenon is why I'm willing to allow anything short of 100% to be called a "hard counter" since many hard counters are only such if you actually use the right abilities at the right times.
It didn't strike me as plausible (when I was originally writing) that that many people would be playing it wrong, but... if they are, then I would accept that as a "hard counter" that is a combination of toons and strategy, with many people missing the 2nd element.
I am also with you that a reliable counter is fine, and which ship should that be except Profundity.
Many a making a big deal of the fact that the counter doesn't use reinforcements, but ... Levi sabotages reinforcements, so you can't have a counter that depends on reinforcements. It's a no-reinforcement counter or nothing against Levi, and there has to be a counter.
Levi (If 7 stars) only sabotages the first RI after "Sabotage the Hangars" is used.... The AI prioritizes "Sabotage the Engines" as it should, then it brings out it's own RI next.... Plenty of time for Prof to bring in an RI ....
Has anyone else got after you sabotage the hanger and they reinforce Sith Empire Trooper ship but instead of destruction it dropped down to 10 stacks? (It was the second reinforcement)
Also I don't think Ferocity is not working on the offense side, not sure about the defense side.
It doesn't say anything about instant defeat, just that it can't be killed while it has stacks.
The bottom line is Profundity is a 100% counter.. and with no reinforcements at that. I'm certain this isn't meeting CG's expectations.. we just have to blow in the wind as they silently do something about it.
All that some people have is mental gymnastics to exercise each day.
Any fleet that can beat another reliably with only three ships is a "hard counter". Some won't accept that no matter what you say. (Even if CG said it shouldn't work like that) they'd still be defending the programming.
Seems most of the time when something is hyped up by them it doesn't live up to the hype.
While there has been no answer on either yet, they are investigating Prof vs Levi: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/265205/investigation-leviathan-matchups#latest
Instead MK6 uses both specials first, and soonest the 3rd move may be a basic one
But remember: if you want to be able to win mirror matches, that means you don't actually want the enemy AI to use perfect strategy.
1) the changes don't make mirrors worse
and
2) the mirror success rate is appropriate overall, with or without changes.
Yeah use chimera with gear 12 iden, 5 star gear 8 tie interceptor, vader, tie fighter and a random empire ally and all of sudden u are at 85% to 100% counter chance vs executor.
Use executrix with sith bomber, palpatins shuttle, fury interceptor, and tie bomber as reinforcement and all of sudden u got 90% success rate against profundity.
Just remember if they make it so the counter becomes a pain in you know what and a mirror is coin flip to see who wins and you all start crying in forums about how bad it is, you all have no one but yourselves to blame