People have already forgotten how boring some of the old arena metas were, when only a mirror match could give you the victory. JKR, for example.
Now we're begging for that.
People have already forgotten how boring some of the old arena metas were, when only a mirror match could give you the victory. JKR, for example.
Now we're begging for that.
I don't play fleet arena because it's interesting. But also no, I don't see anyone begging for that. What I see, and what I want, is for Levi to perform better on defense. You can't afford to set it on defense now because it's an easy 78 banners for your opponent.
People have already forgotten how boring some of the old arena metas were, when only a mirror match could give you the victory. JKR, for example.
Now we're begging for that.
I don't play fleet arena because it's interesting. But also no, I don't see anyone begging for that. What I see, and what I want, is for Levi to perform better on defense. You can't afford to set it on defense now because it's an easy 78 banners for your opponent.
Exactly. Its not that its beatable that's a problem for many owners, its that its so easily beatable. The brand new meta surpassing capital ship should not be easily beatable for max banners. It should be difficult and not a guaranteed win, as it was with Executor, and somewhat with Profun
I paid for 7* Levi and like that it is beatable by past meta. No changes needed, fleet is fine as is. Saves me the hassle from swapping out for fleet shardmates, and I just save Levi for GAC offense; no biggie.
Because the topic always grinds me I assume all the F2P players want Levi to be unbeatable because the P2W crowd needs to have an incentive to spend (apparently so they can beat up on the F2P people). I've been told dozens of times that's how this ecosystem works so I assume all F2P are lining up for invincible Levi.
Because the topic always grinds me I assume all the F2P players want Levi to be unbeatable because the P2W crowd needs to have an incentive to spend (apparently so they can beat up on the F2P people). I've been told dozens of times that's how this ecosystem works so I assume all F2P are lining up for invincible Levi.
Actually, I would imagine it’s that for such players they have to make more difficult choices as to what to work on with more restricted resources. Therefore, they need those resources to be spent in a worthwhile manner, because it will have significantly affected their farming and resource allocation for as much as 6 months.
On top of that, FA is probably the best source of crystals for f2p players at all stages, so prioritising a new fleet which promises to make that income more consistent and then not living up to expectations makes that outlay of time a difficult pill to swallow.
Personal opinion. YMMV
Account started June 2020. 100% FTP. 8.2m GP. JMK, JML, SLKR, and SEE. Exe and Levi. Ally code 117-269-921. Swgoh.gg
Because the topic always grinds me I assume all the F2P players want Levi to be unbeatable because the P2W crowd needs to have an incentive to spend (apparently so they can beat up on the F2P people). I've been told dozens of times that's how this ecosystem works so I assume all F2P are lining up for invincible Levi.
the distinction is probably more likely that Levi owners want it to be invincible and non Levi owners don't lol. Not sure its FTP v. PTW. I'm generally FTP and was able to get Levi 1st run, to 6*. Could have brought to 7* but I chose to wait and not spend the extra crystals. I hoard crystals from GAC and FA, so I used those to get it to 6*, but no real $. I don't want it to be invincible, just better than Exec and Profun
Hmm not sure whats cause but had two profu vs levi today and lost first time in ages. Before tank stood there but now it went poof and it was downhill after that.
Because the topic always grinds me I assume all the F2P players want Levi to be unbeatable because the P2W crowd needs to have an incentive to spend (apparently so they can beat up on the F2P people). I've been told dozens of times that's how this ecosystem works so I assume all F2P are lining up for invincible Levi.
Nope. I am f2p and if you follow what I wrote before I really don't understand how some people seem to want an unbeatable ship (or just soft counters).
Because the topic always grinds me I assume all the F2P players want Levi to be unbeatable because the P2W crowd needs to have an incentive to spend (apparently so they can beat up on the F2P people). I've been told dozens of times that's how this ecosystem works so I assume all F2P are lining up for invincible Levi.
the distinction is probably more likely that Levi owners want it to be invincible and non Levi owners don't lol. Not sure its FTP v. PTW. I'm generally FTP and was able to get Levi 1st run, to 6*. Could have brought to 7* but I chose to wait and not spend the extra crystals. I hoard crystals from GAC and FA, so I used those to get it to 6*, but no real $. I don't want it to be invincible, just better than Exec and Profun
Also not true. I don't have her yet but worked hard and rushed to get her and will have her very soon. I still do not want a meta that is only defined by mirror matches and already mentioned that Prof also has high requirements and should not be devalued after just a year only because some players don't feel their expectarions are met.
Because the topic always grinds me I assume all the F2P players want Levi to be unbeatable because the P2W crowd needs to have an incentive to spend (apparently so they can beat up on the F2P people). I've been told dozens of times that's how this ecosystem works so I assume all F2P are lining up for invincible Levi.
Nope. I am f2p and if you follow what I wrote before I really don't understand how some people seem to want an unbeatable ship (or just soft counters).
Because the topic always grinds me I assume all the F2P players want Levi to be unbeatable because the P2W crowd needs to have an incentive to spend (apparently so they can beat up on the F2P people). I've been told dozens of times that's how this ecosystem works so I assume all F2P are lining up for invincible Levi.
the distinction is probably more likely that Levi owners want it to be invincible and non Levi owners don't lol. Not sure its FTP v. PTW. I'm generally FTP and was able to get Levi 1st run, to 6*. Could have brought to 7* but I chose to wait and not spend the extra crystals. I hoard crystals from GAC and FA, so I used those to get it to 6*, but no real $. I don't want it to be invincible, just better than Exec and Profun
Also not true. I don't have her yet but worked hard and rushed to get her and will have her very soon. I still do not want a meta that is only defined by mirror matches and already mentioned that Prof also has high requirements and should not be devalued after just a year only because some players don't feel their expectarions are met.
The issue is, if you bring up concerns on these forums, some white knights will jump to the defense and claim you want an absolute functionality. But, CG doesn't do "balance" so well either.
I want the Leviathan that was promised, that doesn't get beaten by Profundity with only three ships. I don't want it 100% invincible, I just want it to actually be good on defense and offense without a list of bugs longer than Ahsoka's lekku.
Because the topic always grinds me I assume all the F2P players want Levi to be unbeatable because the P2W crowd needs to have an incentive to spend (apparently so they can beat up on the F2P people). I've been told dozens of times that's how this ecosystem works so I assume all F2P are lining up for invincible Levi.
Nope. I am f2p and if you follow what I wrote before I really don't understand how some people seem to want an unbeatable ship (or just soft counters).
Because the topic always grinds me I assume all the F2P players want Levi to be unbeatable because the P2W crowd needs to have an incentive to spend (apparently so they can beat up on the F2P people). I've been told dozens of times that's how this ecosystem works so I assume all F2P are lining up for invincible Levi.
the distinction is probably more likely that Levi owners want it to be invincible and non Levi owners don't lol. Not sure its FTP v. PTW. I'm generally FTP and was able to get Levi 1st run, to 6*. Could have brought to 7* but I chose to wait and not spend the extra crystals. I hoard crystals from GAC and FA, so I used those to get it to 6*, but no real $. I don't want it to be invincible, just better than Exec and Profun
Also not true. I don't have her yet but worked hard and rushed to get her and will have her very soon. I still do not want a meta that is only defined by mirror matches and already mentioned that Prof also has high requirements and should not be devalued after just a year only because some players don't feel their expectarions are met.
The issue is, if you bring up concerns on these forums, some white knights will jump to the defense and claim you want an absolute functionality. But, CG doesn't do "balance" so well either.
I want the Leviathan that was promised, that doesn't get beaten by Profundity with only three ships. I don't want it 100% invincible, I just want it to actually be good on defense and offense without a list of bugs longer than Ahsoka's lekku.
I understand where you are coming from.
I just see it differently I guess. As long as she can tackle any ship on offence I don't expect her to also be more difficult to beat on defence. Balance wise it was clear to me that Exe or Prof would be her counter and so I really don't care how she is beat on defence by another GL ship. As long as I can beat the other fleets, that's good enough for me. I also thought from the beginning that she will be more of an offence ship, not a defence one.
I see it kind of like with SEE. A beast on offence, not so great on defence. That doesn't make him a bad GL or worth less. His strength just lies more in offence, that's all.
As a side note: She actually isn't that bad on defence. I already mentioned how almost everyone in my shard avoids/struggles with Levi and the player whom has it almost always still sits in the top 5, mostly still on #1, 12 hours after his payout.
Leviathan is so trash gets beat on defense by a 2/3 man profundity squad
Not to mention mirrors are decided as soon as the battle starts and I just ran 4 battles and my opponent went 1st both times
It's even worse with Sith Assasin starting as you may or may not get enough bonus tm to go ahead lol
I'm losing to far lower relic'd squads regularly lol
It's such a mess atm, and likely will continue to ship us bad content cause their isn't anybody to test it
The Profundity can beat every fleet with just three ships. That has nothing to do with Leviathan. Leviathan just forces the three man fleet because you can’t afford to lose the race to Ult.
Only the mirror and the Exec triple attacker fleets might require an extra ship.
The fact that people were using extra ships with Profundity was their choice not a requirement.
Also Executor was not a huge step up on defense when it came out. It was being beat by FO day one and that continues to this day.
This. I totally forgot that some people think Exe had no counter for a while eventhough Finalizer counter was discovered pretty fast. And eventhough it wasn't this big, I remember people not being happy about that too.
People have already forgotten how boring some of the old arena metas were, when only a mirror match could give you the victory. JKR, for example.
Now we're begging for that.
This is cherry picking. Do you remember the GAS arena meta? Always win in the mirror on offense and hold against other squads reliably on defense? I think that's the kind of meta we're asking for.
The current situation is slightly better than a coin flip mirror, (at least Revan was a 90+% win in the mirror it was just tedious, as Levi mirrors are) and an awful ship to place on defense.
There's no way a 'dominate ship (Levi) shouldn't be able to beat the previous meta (Profun) without 2+ RI and low banners, while the previous meta beat the new shiney with no RI and max banners. That is not appropriate and we've seen GLs, legendaries, and AI buffed to compensate in the past, with far less investment and promises.
I see it kind of like with SEE. A beast on offence, not so great on defence. That doesn't make him a bad GL or worth less. His strength just lies more in offence, that's all.
he is the worst GL. The cheapest, to compensate, but really bad aganst any other GL. Not sure what do you mean by 'beast', if he is reliable only against JML. For any other GL he requires strong differense in power(datacrons), same situation as few non-GL teams like starkikker
I see it kind of like with SEE. A beast on offence, not so great on defence. That doesn't make him a bad GL or worth less. His strength just lies more in offence, that's all.
he is the worst GL. The cheapest, to compensate, but really bad aganst any other GL. Not sure what do you mean by 'beast', if he is reliable only against JML. For any other GL he requires strong differense in power(datacrons), same situation as few non-GL teams like starkikker
I can repeat, ok. See is the worst GL. The cheapest of all, to compansate his lack of power, but really bad aganst any other GL(excluding JML). Not sure what meant by 'beast', if he is reliable only against JML. And for any other GL he requires strong differense in power (either stronger datacrons or better mods + relics). Same situation as few non-GL teams like Starkiller, Aphra, Inqs(without 3rd sister), Trench. Thought this characters are not GLs, only have same value.
Its kinda funny to compare Levi to See and stating that both are perfect as they are.
I can repeat, ok. See is the worst GL. The cheapest of all, to compansate his lack of power, but really bad aganst any other GL(excluding JML). Not sure what meant by 'beast', if he is reliable only against JML. And for any other GL he requires strong differense in power (either stronger datacrons or better mods + relics). Same situation as few non-GL teams like Starkiller, Aphra, Inqs(without 3rd sister), Trench. Thought this characters are not GLs, only have same value.
Its kinda funny to compare Levi to See and stating that both are perfect as they are.
If you know how to use SEE he’s viable not just against JML.
He can easily take Rey, mirror matches are a cinch, and to take on SLKR, JMK or LV you just need a good combination of toons and sensible crons.
Account started June 2020. 100% FTP. 8.2m GP. JMK, JML, SLKR, and SEE. Exe and Levi. Ally code 117-269-921. Swgoh.gg
I can repeat, ok. See is the worst GL. The cheapest of all, to compansate his lack of power, but really bad aganst any other GL(excluding JML). Not sure what meant by 'beast', if he is reliable only against JML. And for any other GL he requires strong differense in power (either stronger datacrons or better mods + relics). Same situation as few non-GL teams like Starkiller, Aphra, Inqs(without 3rd sister), Trench. Thought this characters are not GLs, only have same value.
Its kinda funny to compare Levi to See and stating that both are perfect as they are.
Anyhow.... getting off the SEE debate, sabotage the hangers is still buggy as heck in the mirror. Had it happen twice across the past two days of climbing in fleet that I used both (7* Levi) specials and the opposing Levi RI'd without losing their ship. No way I'm misremembering since I'm sitting there staring at their two RIs with my ultimate ready to fire.
Any chance this ship ever gets fixed, much less it's awful offense and survivability vs the previous meta buffed?
Do you remember the GAS arena meta? Always win in the mirror on offense and hold against other squads reliably on defense? I think that's the kind of meta we're asking for.
No, please. Not again... This "kind of meta" is not only obsolete, but also a real pain.
I am F2P and I have a 7* Leviathan since day 1. I still like the ship, at least with (most of) the bugs fixed. Profundity drops it, which is OK for me, but if you don't have care with mines, Outrider will blow up and good luck to activate the Ultimate. A very fast Raddus or even Thrawn if you use ships from two teams can drop it with low banners, which also works for me. Also Executor can be dropped with Finalizer or Chimaera and Profundity with Executrix and the rest of the imperial team (only 1 reinforcement).
Attacking with Levi grants 74 banners (or even more if you use just 2 reinforcements) against anything if you play it correctly. The only thing that I don't like is the mirror match: there are ways to work-around the coin flip for the initial turn, but it does not feel like the devs paid more attention to this kind of fight.
I can repeat, ok. See is the worst GL. The cheapest of all, to compansate his lack of power, but really bad aganst any other GL(excluding JML). Not sure what meant by 'beast', if he is reliable only against JML. And for any other GL he requires strong differense in power (either stronger datacrons or better mods + relics). Same situation as few non-GL teams like Starkiller, Aphra, Inqs(without 3rd sister), Trench. Thought this characters are not GLs, only have same value.
Its kinda funny to compare Levi to See and stating that both are perfect as they are.
If you know how to use SEE he’s viable not just against JML.
He can easily take Rey, mirror matches are a cinch, and to take on SLKR, JMK or LV you just need a good combination of toons and sensible crons.
easily Rey+Ben? No, even your statistic don't think he is riable. You need quite decent mods and datacrons. Even without Ben rey team can be really powerfull to take them down by sorts of See. Even with some crazy boosts to his health. Starkiller on the other hand can do much better. SLKR is hard counter to See, how is See a reliable counter that can take easily him? Again, with datacrons, higher relics, investments in other characters, potentially with omicrons - sure. JML can take See as well, but he is not reliable counter and not a 'beast' in this, Taking down LV? If he has ult? I guess such LV should be really bad for See to take down GL that heals non stop and debuffs, same sjtuation as Jabba.
Everything he is "beast" about, teams like Starkikker, Aphra, Trench can do better.
Plus, this "beast" can be taken down by wampa.
So even though profundity can take down Levi with 3 units, I don't think its wise to compare it to the obvous looser of all GLs.
I'm not sure why people are referring to it as "meta". Thrawn beats it easily, profundity beats it without a reinforce, raddus allows a very easy 2 shot, its useless in ROTE and I'm sure people know of other counters. The first 2 aren't just counters, they're completely one sided. It's bang average not meta. Cg have sold us a pup
SEE can easily handle all GLs except LV and Jabba (and even those are possible, just more difficult). Assuming no DC on the other side, no DC or omis needed. Against any decent team, you need good mods and relics for any team, not just SEE. All of the GLs do better with certain comps/mods/DCs/etc, so that’s a moot point. What about Rey without Ben? LV without Maul? Jabba without Krrsantan/Boushh (or for that matter any sides at all)? JMK without CAT? Does the fact that certain units make them stronger, mean they suck as a GL? LOL. Maybe you just don’t know how to use him effectively. /end
I can repeat, ok. See is the worst GL. The cheapest of all, to compansate his lack of power, but really bad aganst any other GL(excluding JML). Not sure what meant by 'beast', if he is reliable only against JML. And for any other GL he requires strong differense in power (either stronger datacrons or better mods + relics). Same situation as few non-GL teams like Starkiller, Aphra, Inqs(without 3rd sister), Trench. Thought this characters are not GLs, only have same value.
Its kinda funny to compare Levi to See and stating that both are perfect as they are.
If you know how to use SEE he’s viable not just against JML.
He can easily take Rey, mirror matches are a cinch, and to take on SLKR, JMK or LV you just need a good combination of toons and sensible crons.
easily Rey+Ben? No, even your statistic don't think he is riable. You need quite decent mods and datacrons. Even without Ben rey team can be really powerfull to take them down by sorts of See. Even with some crazy boosts to his health. Starkiller on the other hand can do much better. SLKR is hard counter to See, how is See a reliable counter that can take easily him? Again, with datacrons, higher relics, investments in other characters, potentially with omicrons - sure. JML can take See as well, but he is not reliable counter and not a 'beast' in this, Taking down LV? If he has ult? I guess such LV should be really bad for See to take down GL that heals non stop and debuffs, same sjtuation as Jabba.
Everything he is "beast" about, teams like Starkikker, Aphra, Trench can do better.
Plus, this "beast" can be taken down by wampa.
So even though profundity can take down Levi with 3 units, I don't think its wise to compare it to the obvous looser of all GLs.
Anyhow.... getting off the SEE debate, sabotage the hangers is still buggy as heck in the mirror. Had it happen twice across the past two days of climbing in fleet that I used both (7* Levi) specials and the opposing Levi RI'd without losing their ship. No way I'm misremembering since I'm sitting there staring at their two RIs with my ultimate ready to fire.
Any chance this ship ever gets fixed, much less it's awful offense and survivability vs the previous meta buffed?
Was it Mark 6 that didn't get destroyed? It's immune to that.
What I want is a response from CG on the issue of ROTE.
Again, we can 3* the zones easily, so that's not a problem. Fleet missions are clearly not something the devs thought they had to max difficulty to prevent 3*ing the early DS zones. We're doing that anyway.
So what, if multiple r9s and the "new meta" defining fleet are we supposed use to gain a decent (70%+) or even a fair (50%+) winning percentage against p2/DS/fleet.
Exactly how many years will we be waiting to complete these missions, and why?
Replies
Now we're begging for that.
I don't play fleet arena because it's interesting. But also no, I don't see anyone begging for that. What I see, and what I want, is for Levi to perform better on defense. You can't afford to set it on defense now because it's an easy 78 banners for your opponent.
Exactly. Its not that its beatable that's a problem for many owners, its that its so easily beatable. The brand new meta surpassing capital ship should not be easily beatable for max banners. It should be difficult and not a guaranteed win, as it was with Executor, and somewhat with Profun
Actually, I would imagine it’s that for such players they have to make more difficult choices as to what to work on with more restricted resources. Therefore, they need those resources to be spent in a worthwhile manner, because it will have significantly affected their farming and resource allocation for as much as 6 months.
On top of that, FA is probably the best source of crystals for f2p players at all stages, so prioritising a new fleet which promises to make that income more consistent and then not living up to expectations makes that outlay of time a difficult pill to swallow.
Personal opinion. YMMV
the distinction is probably more likely that Levi owners want it to be invincible and non Levi owners don't lol. Not sure its FTP v. PTW. I'm generally FTP and was able to get Levi 1st run, to 6*. Could have brought to 7* but I chose to wait and not spend the extra crystals. I hoard crystals from GAC and FA, so I used those to get it to 6*, but no real $. I don't want it to be invincible, just better than Exec and Profun
-D
Nope. I am f2p and if you follow what I wrote before I really don't understand how some people seem to want an unbeatable ship (or just soft counters).
Also not true. I don't have her yet but worked hard and rushed to get her and will have her very soon. I still do not want a meta that is only defined by mirror matches and already mentioned that Prof also has high requirements and should not be devalued after just a year only because some players don't feel their expectarions are met.
The issue is, if you bring up concerns on these forums, some white knights will jump to the defense and claim you want an absolute functionality. But, CG doesn't do "balance" so well either.
I want the Leviathan that was promised, that doesn't get beaten by Profundity with only three ships. I don't want it 100% invincible, I just want it to actually be good on defense and offense without a list of bugs longer than Ahsoka's lekku.
I understand where you are coming from.
I just see it differently I guess. As long as she can tackle any ship on offence I don't expect her to also be more difficult to beat on defence. Balance wise it was clear to me that Exe or Prof would be her counter and so I really don't care how she is beat on defence by another GL ship. As long as I can beat the other fleets, that's good enough for me. I also thought from the beginning that she will be more of an offence ship, not a defence one.
I see it kind of like with SEE. A beast on offence, not so great on defence. That doesn't make him a bad GL or worth less. His strength just lies more in offence, that's all.
As a side note: She actually isn't that bad on defence. I already mentioned how almost everyone in my shard avoids/struggles with Levi and the player whom has it almost always still sits in the top 5, mostly still on #1, 12 hours after his payout.
Not to mention mirrors are decided as soon as the battle starts and I just ran 4 battles and my opponent went 1st both times
It's even worse with Sith Assasin starting as you may or may not get enough bonus tm to go ahead lol
I'm losing to far lower relic'd squads regularly lol
It's such a mess atm, and likely will continue to ship us bad content cause their isn't anybody to test it
Only the mirror and the Exec triple attacker fleets might require an extra ship.
The fact that people were using extra ships with Profundity was their choice not a requirement.
This. I totally forgot that some people think Exe had no counter for a while eventhough Finalizer counter was discovered pretty fast. And eventhough it wasn't this big, I remember people not being happy about that too.
This is cherry picking. Do you remember the GAS arena meta? Always win in the mirror on offense and hold against other squads reliably on defense? I think that's the kind of meta we're asking for.
The current situation is slightly better than a coin flip mirror, (at least Revan was a 90+% win in the mirror it was just tedious, as Levi mirrors are) and an awful ship to place on defense.
There's no way a 'dominate ship (Levi) shouldn't be able to beat the previous meta (Profun) without 2+ RI and low banners, while the previous meta beat the new shiney with no RI and max banners. That is not appropriate and we've seen GLs, legendaries, and AI buffed to compensate in the past, with far less investment and promises.
Its kinda funny to compare Levi to See and stating that both are perfect as they are.
If you know how to use SEE he’s viable not just against JML.
He can easily take Rey, mirror matches are a cinch, and to take on SLKR, JMK or LV you just need a good combination of toons and sensible crons.
Any chance this ship ever gets fixed, much less it's awful offense and survivability vs the previous meta buffed?
I am F2P and I have a 7* Leviathan since day 1. I still like the ship, at least with (most of) the bugs fixed. Profundity drops it, which is OK for me, but if you don't have care with mines, Outrider will blow up and good luck to activate the Ultimate. A very fast Raddus or even Thrawn if you use ships from two teams can drop it with low banners, which also works for me. Also Executor can be dropped with Finalizer or Chimaera and Profundity with Executrix and the rest of the imperial team (only 1 reinforcement).
Attacking with Levi grants 74 banners (or even more if you use just 2 reinforcements) against anything if you play it correctly. The only thing that I don't like is the mirror match: there are ways to work-around the coin flip for the initial turn, but it does not feel like the devs paid more attention to this kind of fight.
Everything he is "beast" about, teams like Starkikker, Aphra, Trench can do better.
Plus, this "beast" can be taken down by wampa.
So even though profundity can take down Levi with 3 units, I don't think its wise to compare it to the obvous looser of all GLs.
Was it Mark 6 that didn't get destroyed? It's immune to that.
This is a thread about Leviathan. If you two insist on squabbling about a three year old GL please keep that banter in the thread about SEE.
Source: https://xkcd.com/386
Again, we can 3* the zones easily, so that's not a problem. Fleet missions are clearly not something the devs thought they had to max difficulty to prevent 3*ing the early DS zones. We're doing that anyway.
So what, if multiple r9s and the "new meta" defining fleet are we supposed use to gain a decent (70%+) or even a fair (50%+) winning percentage against p2/DS/fleet.
Exactly how many years will we be waiting to complete these missions, and why?