Player Created Galactic War posts - MERGED HERE

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  • Barrok
    1753 posts Member
    Barrok wrote: »
    Telaan wrote: »
    Hey everyone,

    I'm REALLY sorry that the GW Retreat change went live without any announcement.

    The explanation for how that happened is embarrassing - we assembled patch notes from a list of data changes, but the GW Retreat change was a server change. Server releases are always handled separately from data releases from a technical perspective, but sometimes they happen to occur on the same day. We are going to have a meeting to discuss how we can GUARANTEE that important server change with player-facing consequences are not released without accompanying patch notes again.

    I wrote something to add to the patch notes, but I'm going to let Jesse edit his own post in a few minutes, so until then here's the explanation:

    The functionality of Retreat has been changed so that it behaves the same as force-quitting the app. While we understand that many players relied on Retreating as part of their strategy, ultimately there were two different ways to leave a battle that didn’t behave the same way (Retreating, and force-quitting the app). We decided that in order to keep the experience fair and consistent, we would change the behavior of Retreat to work the same as force-quitting.

    -Aaron

    Poor poor decision. I'm afraid this game is going down the typically dark path Star Wars games traditionally do.

    There were two separate ways that functioned differently. So what? Everyone had access to them. That's fair and consistent.....
    LOL your response is gold. Have you not read the forums in the last week or two? The user base was fractured on if Force closing was a cheat or not. If it was intended by the developers or not. People wanted FC users to be BANNED. Now of all of a sudden the developers change it so that it behaves like FC, and we act like everyone was using these features and fine with them before. No, everyone wasn't. The user base was fractured and this was a solution to that fracture. Now we have 1 way it behaves (though reports show that sometimes it behaves like the old way) and this should cut down on confusion and requests for being banned.


    Plus, retreating always felt broken. Oh, Darth Vaders only good move was cast... retreat, come back. Ah all is well.

    Though, my biggest flaw with GW is that each new game starts off fresh for the opponent, but not for you. I don't get why they can always use their Chewie taunts turn 1, while mine will be on cool down :(

    Lol but now it's, oh they have Poe/Vader, I'll just stun with Daka or ability block with Poggle. Oh it didn't land? No worries I can reset till it does.

    Instead of retreating to clear debuffs, now you can keep dangerous abilities or toons locked down by having the match reset till debuffs land.

    it doesn't work like that. All moves are predetermined if they land or not. You will see once you FC/retreat, that if they didn't stun the first time they will not stun the next 10000 times, unless you switch up your team (or possibly move them around).

    You know, the other solution is you bring a team that matches up well against your opponent (since they show us the entire team) and that way Vaders ability isn't nearly as big of a problem.

    I will say this though, it does make it tougher. In the past against the very tough Leia, FOTP, POE, QuiJon teams, I have had to FC till I got a decent start, then retreat after I killed FOTP. Now its 4 on 5. With this new change, I might down FOTP but they storm right back and wreck me. No way to retreat out of that.

  • xJazzx wrote: »
    @CG_AaronNemoyten once that you guys have made adjustments to retreat, can you also improve the algorithm for matchmaking in GW? Many are facing overly strong opponents. Thanks

    Matchmaking in GW has been an ongoing point of discussion among the CG team.
  • Nosnibor wrote: »
    It's a joke and if they'd have announced this **** move beforehand, I'd have made sure to finish GW before the update. As for anyone who says "it's a good thing" I wager you've already got the 20 GW completions achievement. Yet again the level 60+ win because they'll have the toons to keep on completing it and the rest of us will be left behind. The game was losing it's appeal for me anyway, this is just the final nail in the coffin.

    Wrong. I've played every day since release. Only beat it once. When I saw people beating it by "exploiting" it made me mad and I wouldn't do it. I don't know how people that are f2p are able to clear it multiple times. So if you are going to cry and threaten to leave just take your last bit of dignity and leave.

    Level to the bottom......"If I can't make it, it's because of retreat. Now I am glad I am validated as more people are like me. I disn't want tonwin either, just making it harder for anyone else makes me right" kind of posts make me a bit sicknof the stomach.

  • J7000 wrote: »
    How about new content instead of making changes that I would venture would anger over 70 percent of your players.

    We did just increase the level cap and introduce a ton of new content, so it's not a mutually exclusive thing.
    Gw change is bad. If you dont have 15-20 strong toons you will have hard time finishing. Retreat was good. Force quit wasnt. Now you will play hard encounters over and over till you got blessed with rng Gods.

    Atleast reset cooldown between fights so we can use those few precious healers. If your guys are wounded after 1-2 difficult fights how are you gonna survive future onslaughts?
  • DarthMufasaDoom
    19 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    So I've been playing around with it and I think the "correction" was bugged. I've restarted the same ground war 30 times trying to test this. I've been trying to keep all the variables the same but around the 8th time my bariss died so I retreated to reset the match and she remained dead. So I replaced her and kept testing.

    One note is that either RNG really hates me right now or there is a set turn order among other things. With the same gear their dooku went before mine all 30 times, and the same with their Sid. Also their Lumi resisted my dooku's special stun all 30 times. Not deflected or the stun didn't hit. All 30 times it was resisted. Although this could just be bad luck I have to doubt it.

    The lack of a patch note along with my tests make me think that there has to be a bug... Or my sacrifice to RNGeezus today was not to its liking.
  • @CG_AaronNemoyten my daily GW hasn't reset, so I haven't been able to test out the new rules yet...but from my understanding, Reset now works like FC - so even if you are 20 turns into the match, it will reset it to the beginning? Also, were there any changes to allow continuing heals (like Luminara's) to carry over from one match to the next since cool downs and such all cary over - or any changes to the matching so that we aren't blown out of the water by high-powered teams match after match? I'd like to think that I have a decent, and at least somewhat deep roster, however when I face 4 teams in a row that all feature Sidious / Dooku / Poe it's going to be extremely tough to keep anyone at decent health from match to match without being able to clear taunts / heal blocks / exposes.

    Otherwise it would at least make sense if cool downs reset between matches - and possibly a little more health gained back for surviving characters at the end of the match - so that it isn't setup where we are literally going back-to-back against 12 teams, the back half of which are comparable to our strength or better, each of which starts with a fresh set of skills each match - when we are crippled with carryover damage & cool downs.
  • Barrok
    1753 posts Member
    So I've been playing around with it and I think either this is a bug or the correction was bugged. I've restarted the same ground war 30 times trying to test this. I've been trying to keep all the variables the same but around the 8th time my bariss died so I retreated to reset the match and she remained dead. So I replaced her and kept testing.

    One note is that either RNG really hates me right now or there is a set turn order among other things. With the same gear their dooku went before mine all 30 times, and the same with their Sid. Also their Lumi resisted my dooku's special stun all 30 times. Not deflected or the stun didn't hit. All 30 times it was resisted. Although this could just be bad luck I have to doubt it.

    The lack of a patch note along with my tests make me think that there has to be a bug... Or my sacrifice to RNGeezus today was not to its liking.

    The game predetermines the moves. If you start a match with the same 5 players in the same 5 slots, and you make the same moves, they will play out exactly the same right down to the damage.

    If RNG is jacking you over, change a player out (or possibly move your team around, i think this works) and you will see different results.

  • AaronNemoyten
    74 posts
    edited January 2016
    I'd like to clarify about how RNG works. There IS a set turn order - that's the Speed attribute. There can be ties that are broken at random, but that's it.

    As far as stuns or any other "chance at" abilities - those are truly random.

    Please avoid spreading misinformation about these things.

    EDIT: I WAS WRONG ABOUT THIS! In GW ONLY, the same party composition trying the same battles vs the same enemies will keep its RNG Seed (for those of you who know what that is). There's a vigorous discussion about this happening right now behind me.

    -Aaron
    Post edited by AaronNemoyten on
  • Bacon wrote: »
    Adjust to what?
    The main thing that made it doable before was you could use your roster throughout each battle to make sure you had guys ready for the upcoming fights.

    Now you just kinda have to plow through increasingly harder full health teams while not being able to micromanage your health and cool downs from fight to fight. Pulling someone out to save their life is pointless, you win with them almost dead or your restart the fight and do it over and over again and maybe they don't get hit as hard this time. It's dumb.

    Agreed 100%

    GW was fun because it as all about strategy. Making the right choices and adapting. Now the sole determining factor of your success is how many characters you have and how high their power level is.
  • Nicks075 wrote: »
    Retreat still works it just resets the match, everyone is back to full health or whatever health you had when you started the match.
    Its pretty much is the same as result as force closing. I for one think it was a good idea, if a match doesnt go your, retreat and start again fresh. I lkke it. Plus no more complaints of force closing being cheating.

    If it restarts the entire match as force close, I applaud the devs. I did not like retreat much as I would clear taunts, avoid debuffs, save chars, send meatbags to clear specials, etc. no you NEED to beat it with one team.

    This also would settle the force close.

    Now if this does not fully restart things and only for enemy as some say...then man...devs, that would be mean, cruel...what else?

    Can anyone credible confirm what happens?
  • AaronNemoyten
    74 posts
    edited January 2016
    Barrok wrote: »
    The game predetermines the moves. If you start a match with the same 5 players in the same 5 slots, and you make the same moves, they will play out exactly the same right down to the damage.

    Not true. Please stop.

    EDIT: I WAS WRONG ABOUT THIS! In GW ONLY, the same party composition trying the same battles vs the same enemies will keep its RNG Seed (for those of you who know what that is). There's a vigorous discussion about this happening right now behind me.
  • I really like that if you make a mistake you can retreat and have your character fully heal and before you are defeat you can retreat and try again until you defeat you opponent. That how i did my GW this morning.
  • Doesn't really matter to me, I have a deep roster (3 rows of 4* or above and another 2 rows of 3* I'm currently gearing up) I rarely use fc or retreat and can make it through gw on a mostly regular basis.
  • Now if this does not fully restart things and only for enemy as some say...then man...devs, that would be mean, cruel...what else?

    Can anyone credible confirm what happens?

    It's as if the battle never happened. So everybody gets reset.
  • Preemo_Magin
    1826 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Nicks075 wrote: »
    Retreat still works it just resets the match, everyone is back to full health or whatever health you had when you started the match.
    Its pretty much is the same as result as force closing. I for one think it was a good idea, if a match doesnt go your, retreat and start again fresh. I lkke it. Plus no more complaints of force closing being cheating.
    Nicks075 wrote: »
    Retreat still works it just resets the match, everyone is back to full health or whatever health you had when you started the match.
    Its pretty much is the same as result as force closing. I for one think it was a good idea, if a match doesnt go your, retreat and start again fresh. I lkke it. Plus no more complaints of force closing being cheating.

    If this is true, how is that making GW more of a Challenge? It makes it even easier since now you can keep treating till RNG favours you lol... Dooku didn't double Stun? Retreat till he does, Daka didn't revive? Retreat till she does lol...

    Now, ou CAN'T exile chars with immunity block, retreat your chars about to die to summon later for heal. You can't clear taunts through retreat-you need to live and deal with them. You cannot summon a fresh healer with 0 cooldown just when it pleases you. Should I go on??????

  • Qeltar wrote: »
    Hey everyone,

    I'm REALLY sorry that the GW Retreat change went live without any announcement.

    The explanation for how that happened is embarrassing - we assembled patch notes from a list of data changes, but the GW Retreat change was a server change. Server releases are always handled separately from data releases from a technical perspective, but sometimes they happen to occur on the same day. We are going to have a meeting to discuss how we can GUARANTEE that important server change with player-facing consequences are not released without accompanying patch notes again.

    I wrote something to add to the patch notes, but I'm going to let Jesse edit his own post in a few minutes, so until then here's the explanation:

    The functionality of Retreat has been changed so that it behaves the same as force-quitting the app. While we understand that many players relied on Retreating as part of their strategy, ultimately there were two different ways to leave a battle that didn’t behave the same way (Retreating, and force-quitting the app). We decided that in order to keep the experience fair and consistent, we would change the behavior of Retreat to work the same as force-quitting.

    -Aaron

    The response and explanation are appreciated.

    Destroying the ONLY aspect of this game that required actual strategy is baffling and EXTREMELY disappointing.

    It's a war of attrition. Retreat and substituting in new characters is a strategy for winning war. You've just removed a big part of the strategy of this mode.

    Basically, there were two ways to deal with a fight going south: one was complete cheese (force-quitting) and the other some people disliked but was seen as at least a valid way of using tactics to win. Retreat was also a way to manage resources by swapping in characters. You removed the tactical option and basically legitimized the cheese option.

    I'm absolutely floored by this. Amazing.

    Glad to see a senior voice vocalizing the real issue here. It is a war of attrition and subbing in was a major part of getting through it. The meager response from you Aaron is very similar to how you would explain changes and the lack of changes over at HoDA. This is a HORRIBLE change. Pinning it on an accidental cause does not make it justifiable nor explanatory to your players. Come on, you guys have to be better than this?
  • Wow you've killed GW with this nerf. If you want to kill SWGOH, congratulations, you're on the right path.
  • Barrok wrote: »
    The game predetermines the moves. If you start a match with the same 5 players in the same 5 slots, and you make the same moves, they will play out exactly the same right down to the damage.

    Not true. Please stop.

    You should test it, it is true. If you retreat the match will play or the exact same way if you don't change your team and you do the exact same moves. Exact same way.
  • DarthMasterShawn
    3064 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Bad
  • My only complaint is that i might not even be able to get to round 6 anymore no shards for me!
  • xJazzx wrote: »
    @CG_AaronNemoyten once that you guys have made adjustments to retreat, can you also improve the algorithm for matchmaking in GW? Many are facing overly strong opponents. Thanks

    Matchmaking in GW has been an ongoing point of discussion among the CG team.

    IF the matchmaking happens more reasonably, the new mechanics would be very welcomed. IF I have to scrape through 6+ fully synergized battles with only 2-4 healers and no retreat, then it doesn't matter. GW will only be cleared by the extreme elite, widening the gap between those at the top 10 and this at the top 500. Basically, how deep is your bench and are all at max star/gear?

    I'm hopefully optimistic as I haven't tried it out over a series of days yet but if a sensible strategy is possible and available to the vast majority of players I am all for it.
  • Strategy in GW? Yeah in the first few days. After that it just became annoying due to constantly retreating and triggering abilities before battle. All strategy was:
    1. Retreat if taunt/dots/heal immune/enemy buffed.
    2. Throw in lvl 1 characters before match to trigger abilities.

    That's it. Once you done it, it gets boring. I would rather sim through GW now.

    Now if AI gets lucky just retreat and do again. My 3 healer team went through them like a truck, since bugger Leia is not so bugger anymore.
  • Algren wrote: »
    So to stop people cheating and force closing, they've made it "legal" and instead punished the rest of us by taking away the "legal" tactic we use. Interesting idea. Now got to come up with a completely new tactic to try beat gw (which I've never done despite being lvl60).

    That tactic you know nothing about is called...trying to win fairly. Summin your chars, win. If you want to try again, be my guess. Guess what? RNG won't help you. It does not work that way. The chances are predetermined.

  • Barrok wrote: »
    The game predetermines the moves. If you start a match with the same 5 players in the same 5 slots, and you make the same moves, they will play out exactly the same right down to the damage.

    Not true. Please stop.

    I have noticed this too. Of course, if it uses set logic, it will make the same moves every time. However, if you change what you do, it will change what it does.
    --Nud Stark--
  • Guys please dont complain you guys have your Lumi already. Im level 39. Wanted to spend money but I said after the patch..what if some new character comes in etc.. Now I cant farm lumi..I have like 2*jc 3*chewbacca and 3*talia as my best ofs.. Im ****.. I wont spend a cent on this game.. But i really wanted to..
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    d3gauss wrote: »
    Barrok wrote: »
    The game predetermines the moves. If you start a match with the same 5 players in the same 5 slots, and you make the same moves, they will play out exactly the same right down to the damage.

    Not true. Please stop.

    You should test it, it is true. If you retreat the match will play or the exact same way if you don't change your team and you do the exact same moves. Exact same way.

    It's not true, the game just uses some sort of pre-rolling scheme, so it is random, but the numbers are assigned to different things depending on what you do.

    @CG_AaronNemoyten could you confirm this? It would make it a lot easier for people like me who have been trying for a long time to explain that the game is not predetermined (ask Jesse, I've been doing this for weeks...)
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • Barrok
    1753 posts Member
    Barrok wrote: »
    The game predetermines the moves. If you start a match with the same 5 players in the same 5 slots, and you make the same moves, they will play out exactly the same right down to the damage.

    Not true. Please stop.

    Unless you fixed this, I can take a video of this and show it to you. You will also get more reports of this now that FC is the initial way of doing things.

    I have had the exact same game play out 20+ times, down to the exact damage and abilities until I changed my teams.

    Others have reported this exact same behavior.

    If you like, I will record it for you and PM you it.

    Again, if you changed this obviously it won't work but if you haven't it's easy to test. Pick 5 guys in GW, start a battle. See who goes first, use your first ability against someone and document the damage. Force close out and start the battle again (don't replace any characters or move anyone). Document who went first, and then use your first ability and document the damage. Was it the exact same? In my experience it has been.
  • Really should fix matchmaking. How can i play this mode now. I'm at match 10 now.

    My A team =Phasma 4 star lev 6 gear, lum 5 star lev 6, ventriss 5 star lev 7, JC 3 star lev7, luke 3 star lev 6
    I also had in my roster 3 star talia, 5's, plo, han, and chewie with all lev 5 or 6 gear but they are almost dead from my last battle vs. 4 purple 60 levels. Which I could only complete through the old retreat option.

    vs.
    5 star phasma, 4 star JC purple, 4 star Ima, 5 star sid and 5 star lum

    I've played this match multiple times and at best come away killing 2 of their characters before I'm deafeated. Every time they concentrate their attacks on my JC and Luke so they are dead by end of 2nd round everytime.

    It's an impossible match to complete. Is this what you guys were trying to create with this change?
  • Ivadek wrote: »
    Guys please dont complain you guys have your Lumi already. Im level 39. Wanted to spend money but I said after the patch..what if some new character comes in etc.. Now I cant farm lumi..I have like 2*jc 3*chewbacca and 3*talia as my best ofs.. Im ****.. I wont spend a cent on this game.. But i really wanted to..

    Bro, I absolutely feel for you. Anyone that farmed Luminara and Phasma to seven star before this are at a significant advantage. Any newer players or others that didn't get there yet are severely stunted now. What a horrible way to shift the game.
  • exshot04
    15 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Qeltar wrote: »
    Hey everyone,

    I'm REALLY sorry that the GW Retreat change went live without any announcement.

    The explanation for how that happened is embarrassing - we assembled patch notes from a list of data changes, but the GW Retreat change was a server change. Server releases are always handled separately from data releases from a technical perspective, but sometimes they happen to occur on the same day. We are going to have a meeting to discuss how we can GUARANTEE that important server change with player-facing consequences are not released without accompanying patch notes again.

    I wrote something to add to the patch notes, but I'm going to let Jesse edit his own post in a few minutes, so until then here's the explanation:

    The functionality of Retreat has been changed so that it behaves the same as force-quitting the app. While we understand that many players relied on Retreating as part of their strategy, ultimately there were two different ways to leave a battle that didn’t behave the same way (Retreating, and force-quitting the app). We decided that in order to keep the experience fair and consistent, we would change the behavior of Retreat to work the same as force-quitting.

    -Aaron

    The response and explanation are appreciated.

    Destroying the ONLY aspect of this game that required actual strategy is baffling and EXTREMELY disappointing.

    It's a war of attrition. Retreat and substituting in new characters is a strategy for winning war. You've just removed a big part of the strategy of this mode.

    Basically, there were two ways to deal with a fight going south: one was complete cheese (force-quitting) and the other some people disliked but was seen as at least a valid way of using tactics to win. Retreat was also a way to manage resources by swapping in characters. You removed the tactical option and basically legitimized the cheese option.

    I'm absolutely floored by this. Amazing.

    @CG_AaronNemoyten It's a strategy that majority of the people were using to improve there teams. Now with this gone i'm pretty sure certain amount of people will be able to still clear and the people who don't will quit. It was fun while it lasted.
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