Poe can taunt, but he is no tank. He is about as much of a tank as ST Han and regular stormtrooper. Why are they even considered tanks? Because they can taunt?? They are squishy as hell. The "good" tanks in this game can't taunt. An overpowered tank would be 5s with taunt or FO stormtrooper with taunt. The only decent tanks in this game that can taunt, that I've seen, are royal guard(and his taunt is garbage) and a maxed gear 7* Chewie and that is a stretch as they are still squishy, just lots of hitpoints.
the problem isn't poe himself, the real problems in this game are TURN METER MANIPULATION and DAMAGE..
These 2 stats have huge impact on the game at the point we can say that these 2 things are the only stats that matter in gameplay.. I'm playing this game since late november as free to player, and now i'm 62 but i think this game is walking toward a wrong direction about game-balancing..
I really hope the Devs can fix this.. Again, it's not Poe OP, the problems are Damage and Speed ..
Just linking his turn meter removal with the opponents' tenacity (making it resistible) would fix the problem. He preserves everything voilà, speed, removal, expose just making sure it is not working 100% of the time since with Poe being able to go first before anyone and removing turn-meter is a tad bad design choice.
I've played every decent rpg/mmo/whatever you can imagine.
It never changes...
Tank, Healer, Dps, Dps, Dps/Control
That's it.
Mathematically, you are always best to maximize your dps for the highest crit chance and highest crit damage. ALWAYS. Every game. All the time. Healers always max the hps healed (crit not so important, consistency is). Tanks always _mitigate_ and manage the battle (i.e., point out weaker targets and weaknesses through any assortment of mechanics and taunt to draw attention away from weaker party members).
Let me elaborate on that...
Tanks always MITIGATE and MANAGE. What this means is that a tank does not necessarily need to have the most hps, but does need to have the best mitigation to be a good tank. It comes in many forms; a deep hp pool, high evade chance, lifesteal on hit, heal on action (Poe), or whatever. Anyone who thinks tanking is about only one of those options (usually the less experienced point to hp pools only) has most certainly not tanked for a top tier raid guild.
Poe is good at mitigation against only a very specific subset of opponents... Debuffers. His tenacity based heal is his mitigation. If you don't fail a debuff to his tenacity, he gets no mitigation and his relatively small hitpoint pool diminishes INSANELY fast. Want to melt Poe? Stop using your basic attacks that have debuffs! Duh. Use your burst attacks that are pure pain and save the other stuff for later.
Poe is a luck shot at management. This is normally a disadvantage in most battles in most games because you always want to know you can depend on your tank to make the call. There is only a 'chance' that Poe will mark a target (and it's not as high as some here would like to think... Read the post about this psychology at the top of the General section). His expose ability is nice when it sticks; however, it doesn't last long and is removed after one hit. It simply provides the basic tank mechanic of pointing out vulnerable mobs. It can be removed very quickly by any buff remover toon. It's not a whole lot more damage (if any) than if Phasma proc'd his ally assist (which, btw, he can do the entire battle not just from a 4 turn ability).
Poe's taunt is two rounds. If you let it last more than one, you are doing it WRONG. Everyone complains about Mace Windu; however, guess what? Mace can take that taunt right off Poe and you can MELT the glass team standing behind him instantly. Forget about Mace's crappy damage... You won't need it. Other toons remove taunts also.
Poe's speed buff is a balance to his incredibly poor hp pool and low mitigation chance. Simple as that. He is an 'action man's' man, lol. He is made for high risk, high reward, gameplay more than anything. Which, coincidently, is pretty true to his character in the movie! Go figure!
There many many ways to circumvent a tank mechanic in every game ever made and SWGoH is no exception. You just have to stop and think instead of immediately crying 'NERF!' because you could not be bothered.
I agree having a bench to swap in and out is a ridiculous ask in this game as built up toons are few and far between in the current model unless you cash out for $2k plus. But, maybe with some @CG_JohnSalera suggest 'patience' you can get a couple to at least mitigate Poe easily.
Frankly, there are better tanks than Poe... Well, their could be, but their attribute stack does not lend them to efficient use in the current meta (they do actually do well in GW where you don't always see meta parties).
If there is any issue here, it is that Poe is the one of only three tanks that can work okay in the current meta that people use (probably because he was free with 3* already) and no one seems to want to build around the other two. So, he seems OP to those who can't imagine past their current team.
I've played every decent rpg/mmo/whatever you can imagine.
It never changes...
Tank, Healer, Dps, Dps, Dps/Control
That's it.
Mathematically, you are always best to maximize your dps for the highest crit chance and highest crit damage. ALWAYS. Every game. All the time. Healers always max the hps healed (crit not so important, consistency is). Tanks always _mitigate_ and manage the battle (i.e., point out weaker targets and weaknesses through any assortment of mechanics and taunt to draw attention away from weaker party members).
Let me elaborate on that...
Tanks always MITIGATE and MANAGE. What this means is that a tank does not necessarily need to have the most hps, but does need to have the best mitigation to be a good tank. It comes in many forms; a deep hp pool, high evade chance, lifesteal on hit, heal on action (Poe), or whatever. Anyone who thinks tanking is about only one of those options (usually the less experienced point to hp pools only) has most certainly not tanked for a top tier raid guild.
Poe is good at mitigation against only a very specific subset of opponents... Debuffers. His tenacity based heal is his mitigation. If you don't fail a debuff to his tenacity, he gets no mitigation and his relatively small hitpoint pool diminishes INSANELY fast. Want to melt Poe? Stop using your basic attacks that have debuffs! Duh. Use your burst attacks that are pure pain and save the other stuff for later.
Poe is a luck shot at management. This is normally a disadvantage in most battles in most games because you always want to know you can depend on your tank to make the call. There is only a 'chance' that Poe will mark a target (and it's not as high as some here would like to think... Read the post about this psychology at the top of the General section). His expose ability is nice when it sticks; however, it doesn't last long and is removed after one hit. It simply provides the basic tank mechanic of pointing out vulnerable mobs. It can be removed very quickly by any buff remover toon. It's not a whole lot more damage (if any) than if Phasma proc'd his ally assist (which, btw, he can do the entire battle not just from a 4 turn ability).
Poe's taunt is two rounds. If you let it last more than one, you are doing it WRONG. Everyone complains about Mace Windu; however, guess what? Mace can take that taunt right off Poe and you can MELT the glass team standing behind him instantly. Forget about Mace's crappy damage... You won't need it. Other toons remove taunts also.
Poe's speed buff is a balance to his incredibly poor hp pool and low mitigation chance. Simple as that. He is an 'action man's' man, lol. He is made for high risk, high reward, gameplay more than anything. Which, coincidently, is pretty true to his character in the movie! Go figure!
There many many ways to circumvent a tank mechanic in every game ever made and SWGoH is no exception. You just have to stop and think instead of immediately crying 'NERF!' because you could not be bothered.
I agree having a bench to swap in and out is a ridiculous ask in this game as built up toons are few and far between in the current model unless you cash out for $2k plus. But, maybe with some @CG_JohnSalera suggest 'patience' you can get a couple to at least mitigate Poe easily.
Frankly, there are better tanks than Poe... Well, their could be, but their attribute stack does not lend them to efficient use in the current meta (they do actually do well in GW where you don't always see meta parties).
If there is any issue here, it is that Poe is the one of only three tanks that can work okay in the current meta that people use (probably because he was free with 3* already) and no one seems to want to build around the other two. So, he seems OP to those who can't imagine past their current team.
Seriously, Mace Windu... Enough said.
Lol wrong in every way. Sorry well worded post though.
Absolutely nobody has an issue with him taunting. What everyone has a issue with is 25% turn meter removal combined with top speed allowing him to act before even dooku. It effectively allows them to get 5 actions before you even get a single one.
That's the problem, and since most are running huge glass cannons behind Poe you are down 2-3 people before you get a single action.
Decent post. A lot of good and correct info pertaining to MMOs. Although I disagree on some points pertaining to tanks and healers. Modern MMOs have some very intricate boss fights. The days of mostly tank and spank are gone. The same goes for healing. Some boss fights favor consistency while others are all about that burst healing.
However, this game is not a MMO. It contains many MMOesque qualities and features, but many more distinct differences.
That being said, Mace is garbage. Smite does not change that. As a matter of fact, as a result of Poe's high tenacity he has the greatest chance of resisting smite. Once that happens, Mace is utter garbage and you're now in a 4v5 fight. He needs serious Dev love to be even considered.
"This game is not an MMO. It contains many MMOesque qualities and features, but many more distinctive differences" - then why are you complaining about how Poe makes all the other "Tanks" useless? Macs is another solution but yes like Pedro kid said .... He only seems Op to you because can't imagine past your current team
it's not wrong in EVERY way lol what's the matter, just because you don't like his point it becomes automatically wrong/rubbish/useless? Mace is another solution for you
For all those that will say "this is rubbish/useless/meaningless ect" ..., you must stop and think before crying nerf just because you can't be bothered. You really need to look at farming again beyond your CURRENT TEAM but most won't for fear of falling behind.
Post edited by FashionFett on
seriously devs? GW refresh change was a low blow for more $$$
... You really need to look at farming again beyond your CURRENT TEAM but most won't for fear of falling behind.
Please keep comments on-topic and not targeted at specific players or their opinions.
By the way, I agree with a few of your comments, especially those which I have quoted. Plenty of great heroes in-game and farmable which can be competitive in the long run.
... You really need to look at farming again beyond your CURRENT TEAM but most won't for fear of falling behind.
Please keep comments on-topic and not targeted at specific players or their opinions.
By the way, I agree with a few of your comments, especially those which I have quoted. Plenty of great heroes in-game and farmable which can be competitive in the long run.
FashionFett.
How is mace a solution? He stops people losing turn meter?
... You really need to look at farming again beyond your CURRENT TEAM but most won't for fear of falling behind.
Please keep comments on-topic and not targeted at specific players or their opinions.
By the way, I agree with a few of your comments, especially those which I have quoted. Plenty of great heroes in-game and farmable which can be competitive in the long run.
FashionFett.
How is mace a solution? He stops people losing turn meter?
They're talking about his special smite and its ability to clear the taunt.
The only problem is that this doesn't address the fact that:
- He's one of the slowest toons in the game. By the time he gets his turn the opposing team will have gone 2-3 times.
- Smite is subject to being resisted. Due to Poe's high tenacity he'll resist smite 9 times out of 10.
- Regardless of that, Mace offers nothing else to the team. He is bad, and that is the reason no one runs him.
I see a LOT of posts about nerfing Poe and FOTP, but not much discussion besides "INTO THE GROUND".
Realistically, I would expect to see something like this;
Poe:
-Remove turn meter removal from Resistance Bravado
-Add Defense up, or Health up, or a Tenacity Up buff on using R.B.
This basically solves the "Who Taunts First?" garbage from the discussion. Beyond that one ability, Poe seems like he is exactly where he should be for a Tank, especially in this meta: up front, acting as a non-squishy meatshield. Defense Up would be my choice, as it would add synergy from taking Finn as leader, which would make sense considering they're both Resistance.
FOTP:
-Fix the 3rd attack bug
-Fix the 7* stat switch bug
-Change Keen Eye to 10% Crit Chance, 10% Crit Dmg, and gain 25% Turn Meter when an Enemy falls below 50% Health" (or lower Advantage to 30% Health/1 Turn)
-Lower damage on abilities by 5%
Again, not a gigantic change. He needs to have those bugs fixed, and would require or be aided more by team synergy to get off those huge crits or guaranteed Double taps, and should probably have slightly less damage (But should still be able to crit for 7k+ when set up for big hits)
The expose isn't the real problem in Arena, it's the turn meter reduction.
If the other Poe goes first, then the other team is guaranteed to get shots in with their glass cannons before you can taunt, or remove the other Poe's taunt and have your damaging characters get a shot off.
Which leads to a 3v5 round 1.
Which is why Poe needs a fix at all.
Edit:
Also, thematically, Expose is the Resistance tag skill, and turn meter manipulation/speed down is the FO tag skill. Look at abilities on Resistance Pilot, Trooper, and Finn. A Resistance heavy team would have a lot of Exposes on it.
Advantage Gives HUGE bonuses to FOTP, and it should be harder to gain/maintain than it currently is...unless you are synergizing with other FO characters.
Still prefer they fix the glass cannon situation...one shotting in the first round is simply ridiculous for this type....I could see it if we were running say 9 toon squads.... But 5? Nah too much
Oh, wow, another nerf Poe/FOTP thread. I haven't seen one of these threads in about 9 seconds.
Nice try, but I don't want either of them nerfed. Which is what most of the batshit crazy threads on here are calling for
How can you say this when your OP expressly states that you want certain skills decreased in effectiveness, which is the very definition of a nerf? All nerfs are "adjustments", you know.
And my problem with this thread is that we already have so many calling out for this change to Poe/FOTP or that change, or some other change. People have been making the same/similar comments as you did, OP, every day for the last few weeks.
To fix Poe, they just need to change it from remove x turn meter from the enemy team to give x turn meter to allies.
Making this simple change would make it so Poe cant yank thw enemy team out of their positions. He will be able to move his team into turn position, but then the tie breakers take effect, instead of simply insuring victory in the current form.
So my current player level is 59 and I keep my core group of 20 characters all max level. I find myself coming across battles where the opposing team is all between level 49 and 50...the group composition that I place on the field to battle would normally inihilate the team I'm facing, however, what I'm seeing is that my team is consistently getting rocked by teams 10 levels lower? Was this something implemented into the Galaxy wars intentionally to prevent us from getting all the way through? In no way should a team 10 levels lower even come close to killing any member of my team...it just seams like this galaxy war thing has gotten ridicules since the update...why are we seeing this change and why are the teams that are so much lower in levels still doing that insane amount of damage? I feel like it's counterintuitive from the objectives that I'm trying to attain in this game. Specially when I know I have all of the gear on my characters at level 6+....has anyone else noticed this issue?
These posts should be clearer. You want to fix a bug/issue when facing these characters, AI controlled. According to EA/CG statements, AI is working as intended, no errors or boosts (cough,cough).
I can't speak too much about using Poe because I don't have him.
But FOTP is balanced when using him. If, if he survives first round of opponents turns (cross my fingers everytime I see dooku, any fast AOE, and a stun or Lumi) he's deadly but not a guarantee to win. Rarely 3 shots, double taps occasionally, rarely crits unless buffed (5*, lvl 61, max gear and abilities). Seems to work as intended, balanced when using, but not when facing, which I can agree seemed bugged for several characters, which seem to have dialed down a bit since update, but maybe I'm just winning the roll after the month+ long "unlucky" streak and timing is coincidence.
Poe has been very formidable when I've faced him. I know I've lost more than I've won against him. Haven't faced him enough to have an informed opinion about adjustments.
Tie Fighter Pilot will shoot 3 times ONLY if he gains advantage while mid shot (e.g. if his second shot triggers advantage on himself, his shot count resets and he fires thw 3rd shot). It is a known bug. His stats being twisted at 7* is also a known bug. Tie Fighter Pilot needs bugs fixed, not nerf.
Replies
These 2 stats have huge impact on the game at the point we can say that these 2 things are the only stats that matter in gameplay.. I'm playing this game since late november as free to player, and now i'm 62 but i think this game is walking toward a wrong direction about game-balancing..
I really hope the Devs can fix this.. Again, it's not Poe OP, the problems are Damage and Speed ..
I've played every decent rpg/mmo/whatever you can imagine.
It never changes...
Tank, Healer, Dps, Dps, Dps/Control
That's it.
Mathematically, you are always best to maximize your dps for the highest crit chance and highest crit damage. ALWAYS. Every game. All the time. Healers always max the hps healed (crit not so important, consistency is). Tanks always _mitigate_ and manage the battle (i.e., point out weaker targets and weaknesses through any assortment of mechanics and taunt to draw attention away from weaker party members).
Let me elaborate on that...
Tanks always MITIGATE and MANAGE. What this means is that a tank does not necessarily need to have the most hps, but does need to have the best mitigation to be a good tank. It comes in many forms; a deep hp pool, high evade chance, lifesteal on hit, heal on action (Poe), or whatever. Anyone who thinks tanking is about only one of those options (usually the less experienced point to hp pools only) has most certainly not tanked for a top tier raid guild.
Poe is good at mitigation against only a very specific subset of opponents... Debuffers. His tenacity based heal is his mitigation. If you don't fail a debuff to his tenacity, he gets no mitigation and his relatively small hitpoint pool diminishes INSANELY fast. Want to melt Poe? Stop using your basic attacks that have debuffs! Duh. Use your burst attacks that are pure pain and save the other stuff for later.
Poe is a luck shot at management. This is normally a disadvantage in most battles in most games because you always want to know you can depend on your tank to make the call. There is only a 'chance' that Poe will mark a target (and it's not as high as some here would like to think... Read the post about this psychology at the top of the General section). His expose ability is nice when it sticks; however, it doesn't last long and is removed after one hit. It simply provides the basic tank mechanic of pointing out vulnerable mobs. It can be removed very quickly by any buff remover toon. It's not a whole lot more damage (if any) than if Phasma proc'd his ally assist (which, btw, he can do the entire battle not just from a 4 turn ability).
Poe's taunt is two rounds. If you let it last more than one, you are doing it WRONG. Everyone complains about Mace Windu; however, guess what? Mace can take that taunt right off Poe and you can MELT the glass team standing behind him instantly. Forget about Mace's crappy damage... You won't need it. Other toons remove taunts also.
Poe's speed buff is a balance to his incredibly poor hp pool and low mitigation chance. Simple as that. He is an 'action man's' man, lol. He is made for high risk, high reward, gameplay more than anything. Which, coincidently, is pretty true to his character in the movie! Go figure!
There many many ways to circumvent a tank mechanic in every game ever made and SWGoH is no exception. You just have to stop and think instead of immediately crying 'NERF!' because you could not be bothered.
I agree having a bench to swap in and out is a ridiculous ask in this game as built up toons are few and far between in the current model unless you cash out for $2k plus. But, maybe with some @CG_JohnSalera suggest 'patience' you can get a couple to at least mitigate Poe easily.
Frankly, there are better tanks than Poe... Well, their could be, but their attribute stack does not lend them to efficient use in the current meta (they do actually do well in GW where you don't always see meta parties).
If there is any issue here, it is that Poe is the one of only three tanks that can work okay in the current meta that people use (probably because he was free with 3* already) and no one seems to want to build around the other two. So, he seems OP to those who can't imagine past their current team.
Seriously, Mace Windu... Enough said.
Not read thread just saw title and wrote an essay on Poe?(whilst missing out his strongest ability?).
I don't get it...nobody has tried argueing anything you said was too strong like at all...
Lol wrong in every way. Sorry well worded post though.
Absolutely nobody has an issue with him taunting. What everyone has a issue with is 25% turn meter removal combined with top speed allowing him to act before even dooku. It effectively allows them to get 5 actions before you even get a single one.
That's the problem, and since most are running huge glass cannons behind Poe you are down 2-3 people before you get a single action.
Decent post. A lot of good and correct info pertaining to MMOs. Although I disagree on some points pertaining to tanks and healers. Modern MMOs have some very intricate boss fights. The days of mostly tank and spank are gone. The same goes for healing. Some boss fights favor consistency while others are all about that burst healing.
However, this game is not a MMO. It contains many MMOesque qualities and features, but many more distinct differences.
That being said, Mace is garbage. Smite does not change that. As a matter of fact, as a result of Poe's high tenacity he has the greatest chance of resisting smite. Once that happens, Mace is utter garbage and you're now in a 4v5 fight. He needs serious Dev love to be even considered.
it's not wrong in EVERY way lol what's the matter, just because you don't like his point it becomes automatically wrong/rubbish/useless? Mace is another solution for you
For all those that will say "this is rubbish/useless/meaningless ect" ..., you must stop and think before crying nerf just because you can't be bothered. You really need to look at farming again beyond your CURRENT TEAM but most won't for fear of falling behind.
Please keep comments on-topic and not targeted at specific players or their opinions.
By the way, I agree with a few of your comments, especially those which I have quoted. Plenty of great heroes in-game and farmable which can be competitive in the long run.
FashionFett.
Agreed!
How is mace a solution? He stops people losing turn meter?
They're talking about his special smite and its ability to clear the taunt.
The only problem is that this doesn't address the fact that:
- He's one of the slowest toons in the game. By the time he gets his turn the opposing team will have gone 2-3 times.
- Smite is subject to being resisted. Due to Poe's high tenacity he'll resist smite 9 times out of 10.
- Regardless of that, Mace offers nothing else to the team. He is bad, and that is the reason no one runs him.
Realistically, I would expect to see something like this;
Poe:
-Remove turn meter removal from Resistance Bravado
-Add Defense up, or Health up, or a Tenacity Up buff on using R.B.
This basically solves the "Who Taunts First?" garbage from the discussion. Beyond that one ability, Poe seems like he is exactly where he should be for a Tank, especially in this meta: up front, acting as a non-squishy meatshield. Defense Up would be my choice, as it would add synergy from taking Finn as leader, which would make sense considering they're both Resistance.
FOTP:
-Fix the 3rd attack bug
-Fix the 7* stat switch bug
-Change Keen Eye to 10% Crit Chance, 10% Crit Dmg, and gain 25% Turn Meter when an Enemy falls below 50% Health" (or lower Advantage to 30% Health/1 Turn)
-Lower damage on abilities by 5%
Again, not a gigantic change. He needs to have those bugs fixed, and would require or be aided more by team synergy to get off those huge crits or guaranteed Double taps, and should probably have slightly less damage (But should still be able to crit for 7k+ when set up for big hits)
Feedback?
The expose isn't the real problem in Arena, it's the turn meter reduction.
If the other Poe goes first, then the other team is guaranteed to get shots in with their glass cannons before you can taunt, or remove the other Poe's taunt and have your damaging characters get a shot off.
Which leads to a 3v5 round 1.
Which is why Poe needs a fix at all.
Edit:
Also, thematically, Expose is the Resistance tag skill, and turn meter manipulation/speed down is the FO tag skill. Look at abilities on Resistance Pilot, Trooper, and Finn. A Resistance heavy team would have a lot of Exposes on it.
Advantage Gives HUGE bonuses to FOTP, and it should be harder to gain/maintain than it currently is...unless you are synergizing with other FO characters.
Nice try, but I don't want either of them nerfed. Which is what most of the batshit crazy threads on here are calling for
Relax, this one actually kinda makes sense...
How can you say this when your OP expressly states that you want certain skills decreased in effectiveness, which is the very definition of a nerf? All nerfs are "adjustments", you know.
And my problem with this thread is that we already have so many calling out for this change to Poe/FOTP or that change, or some other change. People have been making the same/similar comments as you did, OP, every day for the last few weeks.
Making this simple change would make it so Poe cant yank thw enemy team out of their positions. He will be able to move his team into turn position, but then the tie breakers take effect, instead of simply insuring victory in the current form.
Dont nerf a character Im actually trying to get!
I can't speak too much about using Poe because I don't have him.
But FOTP is balanced when using him. If, if he survives first round of opponents turns (cross my fingers everytime I see dooku, any fast AOE, and a stun or Lumi) he's deadly but not a guarantee to win. Rarely 3 shots, double taps occasionally, rarely crits unless buffed (5*, lvl 61, max gear and abilities). Seems to work as intended, balanced when using, but not when facing, which I can agree seemed bugged for several characters, which seem to have dialed down a bit since update, but maybe I'm just winning the roll after the month+ long "unlucky" streak and timing is coincidence.
Poe has been very formidable when I've faced him. I know I've lost more than I've won against him. Haven't faced him enough to have an informed opinion about adjustments.
Stars dont add that much either for that matter
Its all about the gear baby!!!!!!!!!!