Ani is perfect for aoe because if set up right, he can do one massive aoe hit then is on cooldown. 88 can do similar aoe damage if debuffs are set up well, and even then he has a cooldown.
With mods, Lando basically has an AOE basic attack, and there was no implementation to balance his capabilities. No one can match his damage output for continuous rounds and that's why people don't like AOE.
AOE isn't the problem. AOE attacks can usually be used on cooldown. Lando doesn't have a cooldown on his AOE with mods now, and that's the real balance problem. We need some toons that can take that sort of damage and we need a viable counter to deal with him.
Ani is perfect for aoe because if set up right, he can do one massive aoe hit then is on cooldown. 88 can do similar aoe damage if debuffs are set up well, and even then he has a cooldown.
With mods, Lando basically has an AOE basic attack, and there was no implementation to balance his capabilities. No one can match his damage output for continuous rounds and that's why people don't like AOE.
AOE isn't the problem. AOE attacks can usually be used on cooldown. Lando doesn't have a cooldown on his AOE with mods now, and that's the real balance problem. We need some toons that can take that sort of damage and we need a viable counter to deal with him.
Revert the counter-attack nerfs, let counters bypass taunts again. Also make tenacity relevant. And defensive leader abilities and active skills.
Defensive play in this game is awful, the numbers are outright eclipsed by offense abilities. Along the lines of defense currently giving 2-5% damage reduction in the same place offense gives 20-50% more damage.
You guys really are very childish. The guy is raising legit points. If jawa critting for 6k on an aoe is normal, I don't think it's unreasonable for other toons to do this too. We shouldn't be seeing 17k crits on every character That's almost 100k damage in one move. Give rey 100k crits on her special and see how quick people go mad.
Ye only what you nerfherders don't understand is that you need 2 turns from Lando to reach this kind of damage. Not 1 like many people seem to think or at least describe it that way.
439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
Also I find it funny that after the EP nerf requests, Lando is next. Obvious that f2p is catching up slowly to the whales again and switched from EP to Lando / Wiggs team as a new target.
Why don't people play instead of wasting their time to ask for modifications you know ain't coming.
It sux to have to replace Rey, I know but nerfing is not the answer.
Meta will be Meta, nerf Lando and Anakin his aoe is next because of reasons. Or sunfac or Rex...
439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
ig88 and lando don't have 50k hitpoints like anakin and EP, there's a huge difference.
Is your EP on steroids?
okay slightly exaggerated, however, an EP with health mods and a couple of the 23.5% protection buffs at max level gear has around 34k of combined hitpoints. that pushes him into the realm of midtank at least with wildly crazy AOE, debuff, and health regain.
Also, might I add that I am not calling for any nerfs nor will I ever.
Not sure what is better, giving everyone more health and protection (and also buffing useless characters) or slightly reducing damage/mods, or buffing defense a lot. haha i just don't think Arena battles should be won in less than 1 minute. With this said i am not asking for a nerf or anything. I enjoy the game with all its quirks. There will be an adjustment one day but not sure what it will be or when.
I will not vote for a AoE nerf. I guess people that complains about AoE being overpowered doesn't have AoE toons. Exactly like the people complaining about Rey, they probably not have Rey. Either you go mainstream and join the AoE meta or you go anti. I have AoE toons like lando, anakin and wiggs. But I choose to go droids instead which is no problem what so ever against AoE.
Can we just wait for new raid and latest mods before nerfing anything who knows this might just make the difference. I ask because many people are still investing in these toons (including me).
I really think it's the mods guys rather than toons if they were to balance some stats out it would make everyone survive the initial wave
Do I get smashed by wiggs team often - yes
Do I get smashed by droids team often - yes
Can I beat either - yes
The hardest team is the hybrid one with sun fac and Rex lead right now
Rey in the last meta was powerful but could be beaten this is no different right now ... It's just speed is the issue or rather incredibly rare mod drop rates
There are counters out there and it's not like most of these toons are hidden behind a paywall for us all
You guys really are very childish. The guy is raising legit points. If jawa critting for 6k on an aoe is normal, I don't think it's unreasonable for other toons to do this too. We shouldn't be seeing 17k crits on every character That's almost 100k damage in one move. Give rey 100k crits on her special and see how quick people go mad.
It is spread around though, so the damage isn't so bad. A Rey attack can easily do much more single target damage than an AOE, and isn't vulnerable to things like 10 counters. The main problem with single damage is that the AI doesn't focus on one person at a time, so AOE is much simpler on defense
The problem is Rey can only do 20k+ damage with one move (2 if you're lucky with leverage) to one toon, where Lando can do 20k to each toon every round.
I've said it before, but Lando is basically 5 reys put into one toon, and he has about 2x the h/p. That's not balanced. If the highest single target dps in the game can't even compete with an AOE user, then there's no reason for any other dps toon to exist unless you want to run them with Lando.
He's also very squishy with no forsight, slow and you have to setup on his first attack before he can do big damage on his second. It's the speed mods and well 'synergized' team that makes him deadly. So nerf? NO.
Edit: And these well 'synergized' teams are very easy to counter. I do it every day~
I knew this would turn into a nerf Lando thread, very clever of you OP
However unlike Lando, Rey almost always went first and gave herself foresight which all but guaranteed her a second attack which would devastate anyone.
On the other hand Lando needs to land at least 2 crits, which sounds easy enough but I've seen it fail many times. Then he has to survive until his next round without getting killed, stunned, ability blocked, or inflicted with offense down and/or crit chance down. He doesn't get the luxury of auto foresight at the start of a match.
In all honesty though, comparing Lando and Rey is a moot point. The true benchmark for **** damage belongs to Wiggs who clearly inflicts more devastation than anyone else on the first turn.
Don't nerf characters, buff characters / styles that provide counterplay. Counterattackers and high defense characters should provide counterplay to AOE, but currently cant do to taunt intercept and defense bonuses being garbage.
On my shard, AOE is so gimped by Rex, Sunfac, B2, Emperor, it isn't funny. People just need to go out there and try different strategies instead of whining. That's what my shard did when they could not beat Wiggs for a few days.
ig88 and lando don't have 50k hitpoints like anakin and EP, there's a huge difference.
Is your EP on steroids?
okay slightly exaggerated, however, an EP with health mods and a couple of the 23.5% protection buffs at max level gear has around 34k of combined hitpoints. that pushes him into the realm of midtank at least with wildly crazy AOE, debuff, and health regain.
Also, might I add that I am not calling for any nerfs nor will I ever.
Lando needs his secondary changed to reset after 2+ crits instead of 1. His kit is completely broken now with the introduction of mods. If you don't agree you either are one of these mustachee slurpers all over the place now, or have no idea that his kit was meant to be a risk taker, right now, there is absolutely 0 risk in running him or using his special now that he has more than double the crit chance he had when his kit was made.
The damage he inflicts isn't the issue, its the fact his kit was made pre mods, and is now broken, just like every healer, Kylo Ren, and every hero who has an ability based on Hp% left.
this is definitely a disguised nerf lando thread. jawa does significantly less because of the crazy debuffs it can toss out, with a nebit squad 3 per toon! that's more deadly than 10-15k per toon! it's fairly balanced as is, including lando. wiggs, ani, and EP don't necessarily need a nerf, but they are quite strong and I'm still not sure how my droids can overcome them, but it's certainly not with a AOE blanket nerf
You are joking right? Compare jawa or dathcha's aoe to Any of the droids aoe's. The only one who does less damage is B2. And this isn't a lando nerf thread, it's a let us play the game without getting ganked before we move thread. All of them are manageable threats but were getting to the point when facing all at once is not. It comes down to balance and the devs need to do something with sub 40k health toons to make them more viable. Granted some are but alot are not and it's compounded by how OP some toons have become with mods.
Simply fact is that every character in this game was created and balanced using pre-mod statistics. Mods changed that, and things need to be rebalanced in general on accomodate them. The CG Dev's have already stated as much. Thats why ALL the PVE content has to be rebalanced, you can't naively say that PVP wasn't effected simply because the statistical gains are available to everyone.
Simply fact is that every character in this game was created and balanced using pre-mod statistics. Mods changed that, and things need to be rebalanced in general on accomodate them. The CG Dev's have already stated as much. Thats why ALL the PVE content has to be rebalanced, you can't naively say that PVP wasn't effected simply because the statistical gains are available to everyone.
Good points about balancing. They never did balance any kits or abilities after mods were released, nor do I think they even considered how much different gameplay could be.
this is definitely a disguised nerf lando thread. jawa does significantly less because of the crazy debuffs it can toss out, with a nebit squad 3 per toon! that's more deadly than 10-15k per toon! it's fairly balanced as is, including lando. wiggs, ani, and EP don't necessarily need a nerf, but they are quite strong and I'm still not sure how my droids can overcome them, but it's certainly not with a AOE blanket nerf
You are joking right? Compare jawa or dathcha's aoe to Any of the droids aoe's. The only one who does less damage is B2. And this isn't a lando nerf thread, it's a let us play the game without getting ganked before we move thread. All of them are manageable threats but were getting to the point when facing all at once is not. It comes down to balance and the devs need to do something with sub 40k health toons to make them more viable. Granted some are but alot are not and it's compounded by how OP some toons have become with mods.
yea, sub 40k lando, rex, han solo, 88, 86, palpi, biggs and wedge are a bit too squishy, they deserve a health buff. O wait, they are all viableMETA, and all below 40k health/prot and most below 30k, how the heck is that possible?
Simply fact is that every character in this game was created and balanced using pre-mod statistics. Mods changed that, and things need to be rebalanced in general on accomodate them. The CG Dev's have already stated as much. Thats why ALL the PVE content has to be rebalanced, you can't naively say that PVP wasn't effected simply because the statistical gains are available to everyone.
Good points about balancing. They never did balance any kits or abilities after mods were released, nor do I think they even considered how much different gameplay could be.
Mods effectively add 2x or more damage to characters (especially considering speed's effect on DPS), while effective health and defenses see no where near that increase. Over the course of this games development, damage has scaled up much faster than defense even before mods. Mods are just the most recent and pronounced example. Damage scaled to the point that protection had to be added, basically doublig effective hp (but hurting hp trigger skills and heals) and now damage has doubled or more again and defense remains unchanged. We are basically back to pre-protection but with weaker healing.
Simply fact is that every character in this game was created and balanced using pre-mod statistics. Mods changed that, and things need to be rebalanced in general on accomodate them. The CG Dev's have already stated as much. Thats why ALL the PVE content has to be rebalanced, you can't naively say that PVP wasn't effected simply because the statistical gains are available to everyone.
Good points about balancing. They never did balance any kits or abilities after mods were released, nor do I think they even considered how much different gameplay could be.
Mods effectively add 2x or more damage to characters (especially considering speed's effect on DPS), while effective health and defenses see no where near that increase. Over the course of this games development, damage has scaled up much faster than defense even before mods. Mods are just the most recent and pronounced example. Damage scaled to the point that protection had to be added, basically doublig effective hp (but hurting hp trigger skills and heals) and now damage has doubled or more again and defense remains unchanged. We are basically back to pre-protection but with weaker healing.
Yup those are my thoughts exactly. Nothing has been done to attempt to balance the offense advantages over defense, and yet again this game has become a speed dps nuke fest where you immediately lose 1 toon. Strange, as this start to an arena battle is what prompted protection in the first place. Defense needs to be reworked so that toons can actually put up with Lando and Wiggs damage outputs so that viable counters become available.
And I do think taunts should no longer intercept counter attacks. Fix that and counter teams with more defense would immediately affect the aoe rain teams.
this is definitely a disguised nerf lando thread. jawa does significantly less because of the crazy debuffs it can toss out, with a nebit squad 3 per toon! that's more deadly than 10-15k per toon! it's fairly balanced as is, including lando. wiggs, ani, and EP don't necessarily need a nerf, but they are quite strong and I'm still not sure how my droids can overcome them, but it's certainly not with a AOE blanket nerf
You are joking right? Compare jawa or dathcha's aoe to Any of the droids aoe's. The only one who does less damage is B2. And this isn't a lando nerf thread, it's a let us play the game without getting ganked before we move thread. All of them are manageable threats but were getting to the point when facing all at once is not. It comes down to balance and the devs need to do something with sub 40k health toons to make them more viable. Granted some are but alot are not and it's compounded by how OP some toons have become with mods.
yea, sub 40k lando, rex, han solo, 88, 86, palpi, biggs and wedge are a bit too squishy, they deserve a health buff. O wait, they are all viableMETA, and all below 40k health/prot and most below 30k, how the heck is that possible?
You were saying?
Droids, yeah, but lets be honest, we are talking about the rise and rebirth of landakin and balance. Wiggs does insane damage as do droids, how come all the other squishy characters aren't on par? Anakin and lando, two of the biggest hitters in the game and they are built to last, Why aren't the squishy toons who do no damage rocking over 40k combined health and protection too?
Especially squishy jawa and their 3-6k per toon aoe?
lol @ @GeorgeRules
rex barely past 40k (20%=3k), lando(45k) and biggs(45k) modded for health/prot instead of crit dmg and i didnt mention anakin. come on now.
Hard to argue that jawa's don't suck, because they do suck.
edit: i actually thought you meant without mods in the first place, that's why i said 30k. Made more sence to me to compare base health/prot stats.
You being wrong is besides the point, the point is a huge disparity between damage and health amongst characters. You would think balance would mean if a character hits like a fish it should have survivability and vice versa, not if it has good health it can also do loads of damage and be fast. Come on now.
You being wrong is besides the point, the point is a huge disparity between damage and health amongst characters. You would think balance would mean if a character hits like a fish it should have survivability and vice versa, not if it has good health it can also do loads of damage and be fast. Come on now.
I don't think that all characters should be balanced. Some characters should just be better than others. I only consider characters overpowerd if there is no way to beat them without using the same character. The only teams that aren't beatable have far superior mods, the characters are very beatable.
furthermore, obviously wedge has a high survivability if you try to kill him with eeth, but he certainly doesnt have a high survivability vs lets say rey or ig86. All the characters i mentioned have relatively low health/prot compared to their damage. (maybe not rex and palpi, but they obviously have other strenghts)
Asking for balance is a never ending story, just enjoy the meta and try to prepare for the next meta. It will happen eventually. Why not just adapt instead of asking for balance nerfs?
I'd hope they dont nerf anything, nerfs should only be used on game breaking issues, like for example say an unintended skill interaction. Almost on the bug fix level.
I do thing defense badly needs a look though, it hasn't scaled up remotely close to on par with offense.
Replies
Is your EP on steroids?
With mods, Lando basically has an AOE basic attack, and there was no implementation to balance his capabilities. No one can match his damage output for continuous rounds and that's why people don't like AOE.
AOE isn't the problem. AOE attacks can usually be used on cooldown. Lando doesn't have a cooldown on his AOE with mods now, and that's the real balance problem. We need some toons that can take that sort of damage and we need a viable counter to deal with him.
Critical Chance Dodge
+1
Ye only what you nerfherders don't understand is that you need 2 turns from Lando to reach this kind of damage. Not 1 like many people seem to think or at least describe it that way.
Why don't people play instead of wasting their time to ask for modifications you know ain't coming.
It sux to have to replace Rey, I know but nerfing is not the answer.
Meta will be Meta, nerf Lando and Anakin his aoe is next because of reasons. Or sunfac or Rex...
Also, might I add that I am not calling for any nerfs nor will I ever.
I really think it's the mods guys rather than toons if they were to balance some stats out it would make everyone survive the initial wave
Do I get smashed by wiggs team often - yes
Do I get smashed by droids team often - yes
Can I beat either - yes
The hardest team is the hybrid one with sun fac and Rex lead right now
Rey in the last meta was powerful but could be beaten this is no different right now ... It's just speed is the issue or rather incredibly rare mod drop rates
There are counters out there and it's not like most of these toons are hidden behind a paywall for us all
He's also very squishy with no forsight, slow and you have to setup on his first attack before he can do big damage on his second. It's the speed mods and well 'synergized' team that makes him deadly. So nerf? NO.
Edit: And these well 'synergized' teams are very easy to counter. I do it every day~
However unlike Lando, Rey almost always went first and gave herself foresight which all but guaranteed her a second attack which would devastate anyone.
On the other hand Lando needs to land at least 2 crits, which sounds easy enough but I've seen it fail many times. Then he has to survive until his next round without getting killed, stunned, ability blocked, or inflicted with offense down and/or crit chance down. He doesn't get the luxury of auto foresight at the start of a match.
In all honesty though, comparing Lando and Rey is a moot point. The true benchmark for **** damage belongs to Wiggs who clearly inflicts more devastation than anyone else on the first turn.
Make Zader Great Again!
Lando has a lot more hps than EP
The damage he inflicts isn't the issue, its the fact his kit was made pre mods, and is now broken, just like every healer, Kylo Ren, and every hero who has an ability based on Hp% left.
You are joking right? Compare jawa or dathcha's aoe to Any of the droids aoe's. The only one who does less damage is B2. And this isn't a lando nerf thread, it's a let us play the game without getting ganked before we move thread. All of them are manageable threats but were getting to the point when facing all at once is not. It comes down to balance and the devs need to do something with sub 40k health toons to make them more viable. Granted some are but alot are not and it's compounded by how OP some toons have become with mods.
Good points about balancing. They never did balance any kits or abilities after mods were released, nor do I think they even considered how much different gameplay could be.
yea, sub 40k lando, rex, han solo, 88, 86, palpi, biggs and wedge are a bit too squishy, they deserve a health buff. O wait, they are all viableMETA, and all below 40k health/prot and most below 30k, how the heck is that possible?
Mods effectively add 2x or more damage to characters (especially considering speed's effect on DPS), while effective health and defenses see no where near that increase. Over the course of this games development, damage has scaled up much faster than defense even before mods. Mods are just the most recent and pronounced example. Damage scaled to the point that protection had to be added, basically doublig effective hp (but hurting hp trigger skills and heals) and now damage has doubled or more again and defense remains unchanged. We are basically back to pre-protection but with weaker healing.
Yup those are my thoughts exactly. Nothing has been done to attempt to balance the offense advantages over defense, and yet again this game has become a speed dps nuke fest where you immediately lose 1 toon. Strange, as this start to an arena battle is what prompted protection in the first place. Defense needs to be reworked so that toons can actually put up with Lando and Wiggs damage outputs so that viable counters become available.
And I do think taunts should no longer intercept counter attacks. Fix that and counter teams with more defense would immediately affect the aoe rain teams.
You were saying?
Droids, yeah, but lets be honest, we are talking about the rise and rebirth of landakin and balance. Wiggs does insane damage as do droids, how come all the other squishy characters aren't on par? Anakin and lando, two of the biggest hitters in the game and they are built to last, Why aren't the squishy toons who do no damage rocking over 40k combined health and protection too?
Especially squishy jawa and their 3-6k per toon aoe?
rex barely past 40k (20%=3k), lando(45k) and biggs(45k) modded for health/prot instead of crit dmg and i didnt mention anakin. come on now.
Hard to argue that jawa's don't suck, because they do suck.
edit: i actually thought you meant without mods in the first place, that's why i said 30k. Made more sence to me to compare base health/prot stats.
I don't think that all characters should be balanced. Some characters should just be better than others. I only consider characters overpowerd if there is no way to beat them without using the same character. The only teams that aren't beatable have far superior mods, the characters are very beatable.
furthermore, obviously wedge has a high survivability if you try to kill him with eeth, but he certainly doesnt have a high survivability vs lets say rey or ig86. All the characters i mentioned have relatively low health/prot compared to their damage. (maybe not rex and palpi, but they obviously have other strenghts)
Asking for balance is a never ending story, just enjoy the meta and try to prepare for the next meta. It will happen eventually. Why not just adapt instead of asking for balance nerfs?
I do thing defense badly needs a look though, it hasn't scaled up remotely close to on par with offense.