Personally, I'd like to see a 1 year of play Achievement -- reward is access to the White, Green, and Blue store -- there you can use your cash, or even a lesser qty of gems, to buy lower tier gear at will. This would remove the gear grind that should, really, be behind players at that point.
Anyone who's played it for a year and leaves will probably do so because they have to keep going back to base 0 with each new toon they get....
I'm pretty sure they'll fix the tournaments, I think I saw they stopped them for now until they could rework the system. I honestly don't know how they'll fix it. But currently (and I said this a couple times) the Tournament takes the MOST amount of time to play and provides 99.5% of the player base with the LEAST rewards.
If you're doing twice the fights that you'd do in GW, and harder ones... you should be looking at about the same in terms of what you can get out of it.
But what is the alternative?
honest question, rewarding veterancy has a major drawback. New players will never, ever catch up.
(edit: i think they should increase the rate of progression for all players, new and old alike)
Maybe phase character availability out and even the character playing field out so there isn't just one (or two) meta(s). Make those OG characters worthwhile when they are on synergistic teams. Rotate them out of availability periodically. Make it so the person who has the best chance to win has a broad stable of characters, not just the top five. Heaven forbid you actually have to use some strategy in Arena. At least GW makes you think, but even that is flawed.
But what is the alternative?
honest question, rewarding veterancy has a major drawback. New players will never, ever catch up.
(edit: i think they should increase the rate of progression for all players, new and old alike)
Maybe phase character availability out and even the character playing field out so there isn't just one (or two) meta(s). Make those OG characters worthwhile when they are on synergistic teams. Rotate them out of availability periodically. Make it so the person who has the best chance to win has a broad stable of characters, not just the top five. Heaven forbid you actually have to use some strategy in Arena. At least GW makes you think, but even that is flawed.
I really like this idea in theory, and PremierVenoths could be on the right track, too.
The longer you play the bigger your roster becomes. The zeta are making old toons good. See Boba fett, , QGJ, Maul, Bariss. If you are a new player you have to collect those toons. If you are veteran you will most likely already collected their shards. So that is one advantage. But I agree, some extra drive to keep us playing would be welcome.
The longer you play the bigger your roster becomes. The zeta are making old toons good. See Boba fett, , QGJ, Maul, Bariss. If you are a new player you have to collect those toons. If you are veteran you will most likely already collected their shards. So that is one advantage. But I agree, some extra drive to keep us playing would be welcome.
This is true.. my only issue with that though is that due to stale arena shards, tournament brackets and even your own guild (in relation to raids) all collecting at the same time you don't really get a chance to have an "advantage" over new players.
EDIT: And as a new player you wont have to deal with those zetas for a long time due to your shard, so youre not really at a disadvantage in that way since both players get the same arena reward.
This is true.. my only issue with that though is that due to stale arena shards, tournament brackets and even your own guild (in relation to raids) all collecting at the same time you don't really get a chance to have an "advantage" over new players.
It's really difficult when the game also needs fresh blood and new players. The game wants the to have a chance to pull ahead a bit. I think it's necessary, but as someone who's been playing over a year something needs to be done - convenience, if nothing else.
This is true.. my only issue with that though is that due to stale arena shards, tournament brackets and even your own guild (in relation to raids) all collecting at the same time you don't really get a chance to have an "advantage" over new players.
It's really difficult when the game also needs fresh blood and new players. The game wants the to have a chance to pull ahead a bit. I think it's necessary, but as someone who's been playing over a year something needs to be done - convenience, if nothing else.
Yeah dont get me wrong, I want new players to be able to catch up in all the important ways, I think thats critical to a games success. I just think that there could be a small thing, like an exclusive character or two, or your shop, or some interesting but not game breaking award given to veterans would be great.
You say this game doesn't reward veterancy and offer the tournaments as an example, which actually is the worse example to give.
Yes, you may be right to state that the rewards for lvl - 80 were great compared to 80+. But the issue isn't with the tournaments below lvl 80, but with the tournaments lvl 80+.
And in these tournaments (+lvl80) veterency does count, a lot
(Someone that started in December 2015 vs You (May shard) vs a October shard player: under equal circumstances the guy that started in Dec.2015 has a huge advantage).
The more playing time you have
a) the more (potencially at least) ally points you had banked
b) the bigger the roster,(and if your roster is bigger) the refreshes become proportionally cheaper.
Plus,
- bigger rosters score better in raids (more solutions)... so you get to progress faster (more currency etc);
- You get to participate in more events... again, progressing faster;
- You probably farmed some key characters before (e.g. Boba, anakin, teebo), so you can allocate your resources in to mod farming or the new characters that get released;
- You probably have more banked currency (cantina currency/ galactic wars/ arena) making you progress faster in ships (buying ships left and righ in gw... buying credits and droids in cantina... etc) which will make you get more currency in fleet shipments/ Zetas to... again progress faster than a player thats as started a few months after you...
Not mentioning the gear barrier, that keeps pilling up, and that should seem everyday more unsurpassable to newer players...
If anything this game should be more noob friendly.
Signed:
Someone that started around the same time as you.
But what is the alternative?
honest question, rewarding veterancy has a major drawback. New players will never, ever catch up.
(edit: i think they should increase the rate of progression for all players, new and old alike)
Maybe phase character availability out and even the character playing field out so there isn't just one (or two) meta(s). Make those OG characters worthwhile when they are on synergistic teams. Rotate them out of availability periodically. Make it so the person who has the best chance to win has a broad stable of characters, not just the top five. Heaven forbid you actually have to use some strategy in Arena. At least GW makes you think, but even that is flawed.
I really like this idea in theory.
It rewards those F2P willing to hang around for awhile and the whales, BOTH of which are important to the sustainability of the game.
You say this game doesn't reward veterancy and offer the tournaments as an example, which actually is the worse example to give.
Yes, you may be right to state that the rewards for lvl - 80 were great compared to 80+. But the issue isn't with the tournaments below lvl 80, but with the tournaments lvl 80+.
And in these tournaments (+lvl80) veterency does count, a lot
(Someone that started in December 2015 vs You (May shard) vs a October shard player: under equal circumstances the guy that started in Dec.2015 has a huge advantage).
The more playing time you have
a) the more (potencially at least) ally points you had banked
b) the bigger the roster,(and if your roster is bigger) the refreshes become proportionally cheaper.
Plus,
- bigger rosters score better in raids (more solutions)... so you get to progress faster (more currency etc);
- You get to participate in more events... again, progressing faster;
- You probably farmed some key characters before (e.g. Boba, anakin, teebo), so you can allocate your resources in to mod farming or the new characters that get released;
- You probably have more banked currency (cantina currency/ galactic wars/ arena) making you progress faster in ships (buying ships left and righ in gw... buying credits and droids in cantina... etc) which will make you get more currency in fleet shipments/ Zetas to... again progress faster than a player thats as started a few months after you...
Not mentioning the gear barrier, that keeps pilling up, and that should seem everyday more unsurpassable to newer players...
If anything this game should be more noob friendly.
Signed:
Someone that started around the same time as you.
Yes, you may be right to state that the rewards for lvl - 80 were great compared to 80+. But the issue isn't with the tournaments below lvl 80, but with the tournaments lvl 80+.
And in these tournaments (+lvl80) veterency does count, a lot
(Someone that started in December 2015 vs You (May shard) vs a October shard player: under equal circumstances the guy that started in Dec.2015 has a huge advantage).
The more playing time you have
a) the more (potencially at least) ally points you had banked
b) the bigger the roster,(and if your roster is bigger) the refreshes become proportionally cheaper.
Yes, in theory lvl 80+ tournaments do reward veterancy a little bit, but I really think they more reward whaley-ness than veterancy. Once in a while if im lucky I can get into the top 100 of a tournament, but my most of F2P guildmates usually dont come close, even those who started earlier than I.
A bigger issue is that many people have speculated that your roster size and depth is taken into account when put into brackets, which completely negates the point of rewarding veterancy, instead punishing it.
However, either way as tournaments are right now, flawed and grueling they certainly dont really feel like a reward. Perhaps if tournaments are cleaned up this would make me feel better about the whole thing.
Also imo, the lower than lvl 80 tournaments rewards thing is a huge issue.
- bigger rosters score better in raids (more solutions)... so you get to progress faster (more currency etc);
- You get to participate in more events... again, progressing faster;
- You probably farmed some key characters before (e.g. Boba, anakin, teebo), so you can allocate your resources in to mod farming or the new characters that get released;
- You probably have more banked currency (cantina currency/ galactic wars/ arena) making you progress faster in ships (buying ships left and righ in gw... buying credits and droids in cantina... etc) which will make you get more currency in fleet shipments/ Zetas to... again progress faster than a player thats as started a few months after you...
You dont score better in raids though, because your guild is also progressing too. Ive been at about the same spot for a long time and I dont see that really changing. Once you get a good raid team and your guild has one things dont change much.
As I said earlier unless your guild is usually made up of new players then zetas don't really feel like a reward, as your shardmates and guildmates are also in the same position as you. A new player wont have to deal with opposing zetas until they themselves start getting them, and both of us fight for the same rewards.
Cantina currency is a decent point but its minor. GW is not applicable, because before ships were released Ally points were used by CG to empty most of us who banked, leaving players from 6 months old and onward all in basically the same boat. And youre not really progressing any faster, if anything the new ship currency (and the fact that new players face much weaker ship teams for the same rewards) means faster progression for new players.
Not mentioning the gear barrier, that keeps pilling up, and that should seem everyday more unsurpassable to newer players...
The gear barrier sucks for everyone. I suppose from the standpoint of character collecting, vets are at a large advantage when it comes to gear, but my OP is writen from the perspective that arena is most important, and there, vets dont have an advantage.
If anything this game should be more noob friendly.
Signed:
Someone that started around the same time as you.
Funny thing is is that I agree to a certain extent, I actually wrote a thread befoe talking about this problem with new players. But the game having noob hostility problems and vet problems are not exclusive of each other. I cant refute the fact Im playing for the same rewards for months and will be it seems for months if I continue to play.
Tournaments a great example of how progress in this game isn't really progress. Someone who's level 85 is probably better than that lvl 70 who won 6 Star Jyn Erso but the game has decided that that lvl 70 deserves better rewards than thousands of lvl 85s. Tournament brackets absolutely suck.
Where is this nonsense coming from? The lower level brackets give LESS rewards, not more. Top 25 gets the character vs top 100 in the 80+ bracket, and the gear/credits, etc are less.
A 70 who plays comparatively better versus their peers should receive better rewards than you.
If you think there's no rewards for being a vet, try being a new 80 in that bracket, going against peiople who have been farming raid gear for months. We've already got the characters we want from the galactic war shop, so can dump everything into ships or ally points, where newer players are still develiping their rosters and are pulled in many directions.
The game absolutely favors those who have been in it longer against a new player with comparable spending.
Sometimes I think about the situation and a partial solution could be like at level 80, all your toons automatically get gear 8. When we get level 90, all toons get gear 9, etc... This way you alleviate this really annoying farming of outdated white, blue, green gear (cut a bit on the purple as well).
I just passed boba to gear X and for him to get gear XI I am looking at probably a month of farming minimum. This is just an example as to why arena is stale and people never change their team. You got this feeling that in fact you committed to maybe couple of dozens toons that you brought to gear X/XI and now that level cap increased you have no real alternative then to keep gearing them to remain competitive with no time to bring up a brand new toon to competitive level. Even less a brand new arena team.
My first paragraph solution would in no way fix the issue described in the second one. It is just an additional quality of life. Especially that raid gear requires a lot of those horrible white, green, blue gear (thinking scanner and droid caller here).
Tournaments a great example of how progress in this game isn't really progress. Someone who's level 85 is probably better than that lvl 70 who won 6 Star Jyn Erso but the game has decided that that lvl 70 deserves better rewards than thousands of lvl 85s. Tournament brackets absolutely suck.
Where is this nonsense coming from? The lower level brackets give LESS rewards, not more. Top 25 gets the character vs top 100 in the 80+ bracket, and the gear/credits, etc are less.
A 70 who plays comparatively better versus their peers should receive better rewards than you.
It is that way (beating peers means better rewards than lvl 85 players) because it was arbitrarily defined that way. If it had been a server wide tournament instead to begin with, I could say that I deserve more rewards than that guy who earned his 6 star erso as a lvl 70.
Anyway, Arena is already a battle against peers. Why does everything in the game need to be a battle against only peers? Its like if you play a video game, and the enemies get +1 armor every time you get +1 attack. Youre not really upgrading. And yes, I enjoy the peer battles too sometimes, but after months of it it gets old. All im saying is some minor stuff that isn't peer vs peer stale shard stuff would be a great motivator to vets. Not game breaking rewards, just some minor new stuff to play with or strive for.
Some people who started in June are farther ahead than me, who started in January.
I don't have more banked things, I couldn't place top 20 in arena whereas they could get 1 and get farm more gems and shoot right past me.
I was one of those people who had extremely hard GW. I didn't farm Anakin or Boba.
All your points are invalid from the perspective of a F2P
You say this game doesn't reward veterancy and offer the tournaments as an example, which actually is the worse example to give.
Yes, you may be right to state that the rewards for lvl - 80 were great compared to 80+. But the issue isn't with the tournaments below lvl 80, but with the tournaments lvl 80+.
And in these tournaments (+lvl80) veterency does count, a lot
(Someone that started in December 2015 vs You (May shard) vs a October shard player: under equal circumstances the guy that started in Dec.2015 has a huge advantage).
The more playing time you have
a) the more (potencially at least) ally points you had banked
b) the bigger the roster,(and if your roster is bigger) the refreshes become proportionally cheaper.
Plus,
- bigger rosters score better in raids (more solutions)... so you get to progress faster (more currency etc);
- You get to participate in more events... again, progressing faster;
- You probably farmed some key characters before (e.g. Boba, anakin, teebo), so you can allocate your resources in to mod farming or the new characters that get released;
- You probably have more banked currency (cantina currency/ galactic wars/ arena) making you progress faster in ships (buying ships left and righ in gw... buying credits and droids in cantina... etc) which will make you get more currency in fleet shipments/ Zetas to... again progress faster than a player thats as started a few months after you...
Not mentioning the gear barrier, that keeps pilling up, and that should seem everyday more unsurpassable to newer players...
If anything this game should be more noob friendly.
Signed:
Someone that started around the same time as you.
Tournaments a great example of how progress in this game isn't really progress. Someone who's level 85 is probably better than that lvl 70 who won 6 Star Jyn Erso but the game has decided that that lvl 70 deserves better rewards than thousands of lvl 85s. Tournament brackets absolutely suck.
If you think there's no rewards for being a vet, try being a new 80 in that bracket, going against peiople who have been farming raid gear for months. We've already got the characters we want from the galactic war shop, so can dump everything into ships or ally points, where newer players are still develiping their rosters and are pulled in many directions.
The game absolutely favors those who have been in it longer against a new player with comparable spending.
Sorry, responding to the edit:
Yeah yeah, lvl 80 blues I know, it sucks. Its not a good thing that lvl 80s get the short end of the stick when they get to that level (assuming that tournament brackets arent heavily influenced by roster size and depth). But these problems are not exclusive of each other. What youre saying doesnt refute my
point. Largely, ive been playing for the same rewards for months, and likely will be for months. Tournaments are an exception, and a really iffy one at that.
And thats because tournaments as they are suck. They are not enjoyable and leave many without a reward at all and cant serve as a reward for veteran players, for reasons I states earlier.
Tournaments a great example of how progress in this game isn't really progress. Someone who's level 85 is probably better than that lvl 70 who won 6 Star Jyn Erso but the game has decided that that lvl 70 deserves better rewards than thousands of lvl 85s. Tournament brackets absolutely suck.
Where is this nonsense coming from? The lower level brackets give LESS rewards, not more. Top 25 gets the character vs top 100 in the 80+ bracket, and the gear/credits, etc are less.
A 70 who plays comparatively better versus their peers should receive better rewards than you.
It is that way (beating peers means better rewards than lvl 85 players) because it was arbitrarily defined that way. If it had been a server wide tournament instead to begin with, I could say that I deserve more rewards than that guy who earned his 6 star erso as a lvl 70.
As a kid, did you also want to play sports against toddlers so you could win? Beating up on a lower level player isnt "more deserving". Sorry you cant hack it against people in your level range. Maybe suck less?
It's a sad fact that games of this ilk have around a 4-year lifespan (although the Star Wars franchise may well artificially extend that).
My evidence for this is mainly Marvel : War of Heroes. Big franchise, massive fan base, released October 2012, servers switched off mid-2016. True, it was a TCG, but I don't feel it's a stretch of the imagination to be able to compare the SWGOH characters to cards.
Rage of Bahamut also suffered a similar fate although I believe it lasted slightly longer (and is still going strong in Japan).
I used to play War of Heroes, but quit when they started this kind of anti-Robin Hood kind of atmosphere - where only the players prepared to spend the most money could compete in the events which, unsurprisingly, had the strongest cards as their rewards. I feel that this is starting to happen in SWGOH - AP can for sure be linked to real-money spend, albeit indirectly. If this trend continues, you can add me to the list of people uninstalling; I like this game but if it keeps going in this direction with the tournaments and power-creep from tournament rewards, well, the writing's on the wall if you ask me.
Tournaments a great example of how progress in this game isn't really progress. Someone who's level 85 is probably better than that lvl 70 who won 6 Star Jyn Erso but the game has decided that that lvl 70 deserves better rewards than thousands of lvl 85s. Tournament brackets absolutely suck.
Where is this nonsense coming from? The lower level brackets give LESS rewards, not more. Top 25 gets the character vs top 100 in the 80+ bracket, and the gear/credits, etc are less.
A 70 who plays comparatively better versus their peers should receive better rewards than you.
It is that way (beating peers means better rewards than lvl 85 players) because it was arbitrarily defined that way. If it had been a server wide tournament instead to begin with, I could say that I deserve more rewards than that guy who earned his 6 star erso as a lvl 70.
As a kid, did you also want to play sports against toddlers so you could win? Beating up on a lower level player isnt "more deserving". Sorry you cant hack it against people in your level range. Maybe suck less?
Lol Im in the top 10 arena rank most days and do fine enough for me in tournaments. You realize that many successful games like WoW or basically any succesful MMORPG have a much better end game than this one? And has a lot more content for vets? Beating up on lower levels isnt the point, (and I wouldnt be anyway because after 10 minutes in this tournament Id be fighting people like me) its rewarding vets.
Sorry you can't comprehend what I write. Maybe take an english class?
Anyway, Arena is already a battle against peers. Why does everything in the game need to be a battle against only peers? Its like if you play a video game, and the enemies get +1 armor every time you get +1 attack. Youre not really upgrading. And yes, I enjoy the peer battles too sometimes, but after months of it it gets old.
This right here is why for a long time I've felt like events really should be the answer. Problem is their event setup right now is terrible. When was the last time any vet saw an event icon that wasn't credit heist and got even remotely excited?
Some of them have challenging final tiers, but even if you have the breadth of roster and strength of characters to finish what's the point? I for one am really looking forward to my 2-10 General Veers shards... /s
Yoda event was cool, and the first time around I didn't finish even as a day 1 player because I didn't have the Jedi. You can bet i was prepared the next time around though. It was one of the biggest senses of accomplishment I've felt in this game. And now I can't even replay the event for fun when it replays... Why?
Same with Palpatine.
Those events were cool. Military Might could be cool to if they ran it a little more often, varied it a bit each time, and made the rewards worth playing for. Intermix it with the other banked events and add a few more to the rotation, and that may just get vets excited about... something.
Some people who started in June are farther ahead than me, who started in January.
I don't have more banked things, I couldn't place top 20 in arena whereas they could get 1 and get farm more gems and shoot right past me.
I was one of those people who had extremely hard GW. I didn't farm Anakin or Boba.
All your points are invalid from the perspective of a F2P
I have to disagree. I started in late April, am completely f2p, and have been top 5 in arena for a couple months now and top 10 for longer than that. I can get characters from any tournament I want if I've saved at least 200k ally points. I learned early on that this is not in fact a collection game, in the sense of pokemon. This is a game of focusing on maxing teams. The AAT raid is even further proof of that.
GW is only hard at max level if you have one max team and then a bunch g7/8 toons. GW at early levels is much harder and time consuming. If you don't believe me, start an alt.
@OP:
Players that were level 30-70 did not have an easier time getting characters from tournaments. They had to fight the early whales on their tourney shards. They didn't have a chance to get that character to 7* .
Some people who started in June are farther ahead than me, who started in January.
I don't have more banked things, I couldn't place top 20 in arena whereas they could get 1 and get farm more gems and shoot right past me.
I was one of those people who had extremely hard GW. I didn't farm Anakin or Boba.
All your points are invalid from the perspective of a F2P
I have to disagree. I started in late April, am completely f2p, and have been top 5 in arena for a couple months now and top 10 for longer than that. I can get characters from any tournament I want if I've saved at least 200k ally points. I learned early on that this is not in fact a collection game, in the sense of pokemon. This is a game of focusing on maxing teams. The AAT raid is even further proof of that.
GW is only hard at max level if you have one max team and then a bunch g7/8 toons. GW at early levels is much harder and time consuming. If you don't believe me, start an alt.
@OP:
Players that were level 30-70 did not have an easier time getting characters from tournaments. They had to fight the early whales on their tourney shards. They didn't have a chance to get that character to 7* .
You are one of the lucky who started near the top of arena.
I started 10k+
I have multiple max teams and I can finish GW easier now.
The main point is the majority of players (90%+) are F2P and didn't get a lucky shard start.
Some people who started in June are farther ahead than me, who started in January.
I don't have more banked things, I couldn't place top 20 in arena whereas they could get 1 and get farm more gems and shoot right past me.
I was one of those people who had extremely hard GW. I didn't farm Anakin or Boba.
All your points are invalid from the perspective of a F2P
I have to disagree. I started in late April, am completely f2p, and have been top 5 in arena for a couple months now and top 10 for longer than that. I can get characters from any tournament I want if I've saved at least 200k ally points. I learned early on that this is not in fact a collection game, in the sense of pokemon. This is a game of focusing on maxing teams. The AAT raid is even further proof of that.
GW is only hard at max level if you have one max team and then a bunch g7/8 toons. GW at early levels is much harder and time consuming. If you don't believe me, start an alt.
@OP:
Players that were level 30-70 did not have an easier time getting characters from tournaments. They had to fight the early whales on their tourney shards. They didn't have a chance to get that character to 7* .
From what Ive heard, there are less whales in the earlier shards. But even if I concede tournaments are a reward for vets (which i dont, because many vets who try dont get decent rewards, tournaments are unenjoyable, brackets seem rigged, and as a less important note 200k allypoints means sacrificing ships or another tourney) then theres still the issue of playing for the same rewards for months. Its going to be that way for the AAT raid soon too and judging by
how long it took for the raid to come out its going to be like that for a really really
long time. Im not even that old of a player and my guild is near beating Heroic, so it really doesnt seem like the guys who started in 2015 really have much more on me. Plus raids are also unenjoyable for many too tbh.
I think some good well crafted events or the raaaare server wide tourney is a decent idea.
Yes, in theory lvl 80+ tournaments do reward veterancy a little bit, but I really think they more reward whaley-ness than veterancy. Once in a while if im lucky I can get into the top 100 of a tournament, but my most of F2P guildmates usually dont come close, even those who started earlier than I.
A bigger issue is that many people have speculated that your roster size and depth is taken into account when put into brackets, which completely negates the point of rewarding veterancy, instead punishing it.
However, either way as tournaments are right now, flawed and grueling they certainly dont really feel like a reward. Perhaps if tournaments are cleaned up this would make me feel better about the whole thing.
Also imo, the lower than lvl 80 tournaments rewards thing is a huge issue.
Agreed on the fact that they reward whaleness more than veterancy (such is the nature of a game that needs to make money), but then you're comparing apples and oranges.
The fact remains a f2p's from a december 2015 vs f2p from a May shard... the December guy is at an advantage.
Same as p2p from december 2015 vs a p2p from a May shard... the December guy is at an advantage.
The grouping being made by roster size/depth is false, if that would be true we wouldn't see (coff cheaters coff) toping a leaderboard with 5 g10/g11 characters, while some people on the same leaderboard have 30 or 40...
Don't get me wrong though, I'm not a fan, by any means, of tournaments.
But, that doesn't mean I think they should reward veterancy either, be it on tournaments or other game features.
You dont score better in raids though, because your guild is also progressing too. Ive been at about the same spot for a long time and I dont see that really changing. Once you get a good raid team and your guild has one things dont change much.
As I said earlier unless your guild is usually made up of new players then zetas don't really feel like a reward, as your shardmates and guildmates are also in the same position as you. A new player wont have to deal with opposing zetas until they themselves start getting them, and both of us fight for the same rewards.
If your guild is composed by people in which everyone started around the same time, then yes, you don't score better because your guild is also progressing.
But if that's the case, then there is no veterancy issue, because everyone is around the same "age".
However, if there is an age difference (you started to play earlier than they they did) you should have better scores (assuming you took reasonable choices in farming ([e.g. not farming JKG or mob enforcer] and the $ spent is similar to that of your "younger" guildmate).
On the zetas, well vs shardmates there is no veterancy issue (again you all started at the same time), vs your guildmates that isn't exactly true.
Zeta Barriss and watch yourself outperforming your guildmates in p1 heroic, or Zeta Cody and do it in p2..
And, see above, if you score higher then rewards/currency come faster, so you should progress faster.
Trying to see this game like individual sections is wrong, everything is intertwined, and the time factor is an obvious advantage.
Cantina currency is a decent point but its minor. GW is not applicable, because before ships were released Ally points were used by CG to empty most of us who banked, leaving players from 6 months old and onward all in basically the same boat. And youre not really progressing any faster, if anything the new ship currency (and the fact that new players face much weaker ship teams for the same rewards) means faster progression for new players.
GW is applicable. You just proved that by being in a May shard you had GW currency banked... That gave you an advantage in the tournament vs players on your leaderboard from say September, because they shouldn't (assuming similar $ spent) have as much currency banked as you...
Yes, you were at an disadvantage vs older players... because they had more banked currency than you...
But didn't you want to reward veterancy? there you have it.
If anything the problem is/was exactly rewarding that veterancy.
Funny thing is is that I agree to a certain extent, I actually wrote a thread befoe talking about this problem with new players. But the game having noob hostility problems and vet problems are not exclusive of each other. I cant refute the fact Im playing for the same rewards for months and will be it seems for months if I continue to play.
Personally, I think this game should be more noob friendlier.
If we want the game to last, a steady flow of new players must keep joining, otherwise it won't compensate the people that the game loses (be it boredom, finding other games, etc...)...
And if you present a to steep progression to a new player he will probably lose interest soon.
That said, and without pondering too much on it:
Gear to gear 10 should be easier to farm;
Older characters should have higher drop rates.
Zetas and reworks alone make toons a 1 year player has basically maxed (or close to) an instant hit.
Yes a "new player" could walk right into the current meta, but will they have all the resources and abilities to build solid tank arena teams as quickly as a seasoned player.
This game is a grind and even the addition of new toons will never out weigh time. I have so many toons either unlocked or ready to be unlocked, one change and I can activate 7* and gear before a "new" player could finish the farm.
Depth of roster in " the event that shall not be named" helps me run 4-5 teams that I don't think a "new" player can field.
I have a decent selection of mods that may not be the best, but at the drop of a hat I have options that a new player might have to strip his best team to make an ok second.
Not everyone was saving them but again at the start of the "event" ally coins were abundant no new player would have had as many.
All in all there are many benefits to being a vet. And I'm ok with new players not feeling left out, we need new blood to keep the lights on.
Quick question, at what point can you consider someone a veteran player?
Im thinking around the time you can do all of the features of the game with consistent success (or I should say, results) is a decent definition not for vets but for those afflicted with the problem Im mentioning.
Excluding tournaments I guess, and maaaaaybe Heroic AAT?, due to guild variance or people choosing to stay in weaker guilds.
Some people who started in June are farther ahead than me, who started in January.
I don't have more banked things, I couldn't place top 20 in arena whereas they could get 1 and get farm more gems and shoot right past me.
I was one of those people who had extremely hard GW. I didn't farm Anakin or Boba.
All your points are invalid from the perspective of a F2P
I have to disagree. I started in late April, am completely f2p, and have been top 5 in arena for a couple months now and top 10 for longer than that. I can get characters from any tournament I want if I've saved at least 200k ally points. I learned early on that this is not in fact a collection game, in the sense of pokemon. This is a game of focusing on maxing teams. The AAT raid is even further proof of that.
GW is only hard at max level if you have one max team and then a bunch g7/8 toons. GW at early levels is much harder and time consuming. If you don't believe me, start an alt.
@OP:
Players that were level 30-70 did not have an easier time getting characters from tournaments. They had to fight the early whales on their tourney shards. They didn't have a chance to get that character to 7* .
You are one of the lucky who started near the top of arena.
I started 10k+
I have multiple max teams and I can finish GW easier now.
The main point is the majority of players (90%+) are F2P and didn't get a lucky shard start.
I started in the 5k's on my shard. Worked my way up. What does starting position have to do with anything? I didn't say I got a high rank early. I worked on teams that succeeded early and maxed them. When I got to max level I pushed into the top 20, then 10, now 5.
Yes, in theory lvl 80+ tournaments do reward veterancy a little bit, but I really think they more reward whaley-ness than veterancy. Once in a while if im lucky I can get into the top 100 of a tournament, but my most of F2P guildmates usually dont come close, even those who started earlier than I.
A bigger issue is that many people have speculated that your roster size and depth is taken into account when put into brackets, which completely negates the point of rewarding veterancy, instead punishing it.
However, either way as tournaments are right now, flawed and grueling they certainly dont really feel like a reward. Perhaps if tournaments are cleaned up this would make me feel better about the whole thing.
Also imo, the lower than lvl 80 tournaments rewards thing is a huge issue.
Agreed on the fact that they reward whaleness more than veterancy (such is the nature of a game that needs to make money), but then you're comparing apples and oranges.
The fact remains a f2p's from a december 2015 vs f2p from a May shard... the December guy is at an advantage.
Same as p2p from december 2015 vs a p2p from a May shard... the December guy is at an advantage.
The grouping being made by roster size/depth is false, if that would be true we wouldn't see (coff cheaters coff) toping a leaderboard with 5 g10/g11 characters, while some people on the same leaderboard have 30 or 40...
Don't get me wrong though, I'm not a fan, by any means, of tournaments.
But, that doesn't mean I think they should reward veterancy either, be it on tournaments or other game features.
You dont score better in raids though, because your guild is also progressing too. Ive been at about the same spot for a long time and I dont see that really changing. Once you get a good raid team and your guild has one things dont change much.
As I said earlier unless your guild is usually made up of new players then zetas don't really feel like a reward, as your shardmates and guildmates are also in the same position as you. A new player wont have to deal with opposing zetas until they themselves start getting them, and both of us fight for the same rewards.
If your guild is composed by people in which everyone started around the same time, then yes, you don't score better because your guild is also progressing.
But if that's the case, then there is no veterancy issue, because everyone is around the same "age".
However, if there is an age difference (you started to play earlier than they they did) you should have better scores (assuming you took reasonable choices in farming ([e.g. not farming JKG or mob enforcer] and the $ spent is similar to that of your "younger" guildmate).
On the zetas, well vs shardmates there is no veterancy issue (again you all started at the same time), vs your guildmates that isn't exactly true.
Zeta Barriss and watch yourself outperforming your guildmates in p1 heroic, or Zeta Cody and do it in p2..
And, see above, if you score higher then rewards/currency come faster, so you should progress faster.
Trying to see this game like individual sections is wrong, everything is intertwined, and the time factor is an obvious advantage.
Cantina currency is a decent point but its minor. GW is not applicable, because before ships were released Ally points were used by CG to empty most of us who banked, leaving players from 6 months old and onward all in basically the same boat. And youre not really progressing any faster, if anything the new ship currency (and the fact that new players face much weaker ship teams for the same rewards) means faster progression for new players.
GW is applicable. You just proved that by being in a May shard you had GW currency banked... That gave you an advantage in the tournament vs players on your leaderboard from say September, because they shouldn't (assuming similar $ spent) have as much currency banked as you...
Yes, you were at an disadvantage vs older players... because they had more banked currency than you...
But didn't you want to reward veterancy? there you have it.
If anything the problem is/was exactly rewarding that veterancy.
Funny thing is is that I agree to a certain extent, I actually wrote a thread befoe talking about this problem with new players. But the game having noob hostility problems and vet problems are not exclusive of each other. I cant refute the fact Im playing for the same rewards for months and will be it seems for months if I continue to play.
Personally, I think this game should be more noob friendlier.
If we want the game to last, a steady flow of new players must keep joining, otherwise it won't compensate the people that the game loses (be it boredom, finding other games, etc...)...
And if you present a to steep progression to a new player he will probably lose interest soon.
That said, and without pondering too much on it:
Gear to gear 10 should be easier to farm;
Older characters should have higher drop rates.
To help newer players shorten the gap.
Saying a F2P from a December shard over a F2P from a May shard isn't necessarily true, a few reason:
1. The December Shard could be full of whales leading to much slower progression
2. The December player starts at 10k+ while the May player starts at rank 10
3. The December player does not have as much time as the May player
4. The December player farms to wrong toons that will be useful in later meta.
Replies
Anyone who's played it for a year and leaves will probably do so because they have to keep going back to base 0 with each new toon they get....
I'm pretty sure they'll fix the tournaments, I think I saw they stopped them for now until they could rework the system. I honestly don't know how they'll fix it. But currently (and I said this a couple times) the Tournament takes the MOST amount of time to play and provides 99.5% of the player base with the LEAST rewards.
If you're doing twice the fights that you'd do in GW, and harder ones... you should be looking at about the same in terms of what you can get out of it.
Maybe phase character availability out and even the character playing field out so there isn't just one (or two) meta(s). Make those OG characters worthwhile when they are on synergistic teams. Rotate them out of availability periodically. Make it so the person who has the best chance to win has a broad stable of characters, not just the top five. Heaven forbid you actually have to use some strategy in Arena. At least GW makes you think, but even that is flawed.
I really like this idea in theory, and PremierVenoths could be on the right track, too.
This is true.. my only issue with that though is that due to stale arena shards, tournament brackets and even your own guild (in relation to raids) all collecting at the same time you don't really get a chance to have an "advantage" over new players.
EDIT: And as a new player you wont have to deal with those zetas for a long time due to your shard, so youre not really at a disadvantage in that way since both players get the same arena reward.
It's really difficult when the game also needs fresh blood and new players. The game wants the to have a chance to pull ahead a bit. I think it's necessary, but as someone who's been playing over a year something needs to be done - convenience, if nothing else.
Yeah dont get me wrong, I want new players to be able to catch up in all the important ways, I think thats critical to a games success. I just think that there could be a small thing, like an exclusive character or two, or your shop, or some interesting but not game breaking award given to veterans would be great.
You say this game doesn't reward veterancy and offer the tournaments as an example, which actually is the worse example to give.
Yes, you may be right to state that the rewards for lvl - 80 were great compared to 80+. But the issue isn't with the tournaments below lvl 80, but with the tournaments lvl 80+.
And in these tournaments (+lvl80) veterency does count, a lot
(Someone that started in December 2015 vs You (May shard) vs a October shard player: under equal circumstances the guy that started in Dec.2015 has a huge advantage).
The more playing time you have
a) the more (potencially at least) ally points you had banked
b) the bigger the roster,(and if your roster is bigger) the refreshes become proportionally cheaper.
Plus,
- bigger rosters score better in raids (more solutions)... so you get to progress faster (more currency etc);
- You get to participate in more events... again, progressing faster;
- You probably farmed some key characters before (e.g. Boba, anakin, teebo), so you can allocate your resources in to mod farming or the new characters that get released;
- You probably have more banked currency (cantina currency/ galactic wars/ arena) making you progress faster in ships (buying ships left and righ in gw... buying credits and droids in cantina... etc) which will make you get more currency in fleet shipments/ Zetas to... again progress faster than a player thats as started a few months after you...
Not mentioning the gear barrier, that keeps pilling up, and that should seem everyday more unsurpassable to newer players...
If anything this game should be more noob friendly.
Signed:
Someone that started around the same time as you.
It rewards those F2P willing to hang around for awhile and the whales, BOTH of which are important to the sustainability of the game.
+1
Yes, in theory lvl 80+ tournaments do reward veterancy a little bit, but I really think they more reward whaley-ness than veterancy. Once in a while if im lucky I can get into the top 100 of a tournament, but my most of F2P guildmates usually dont come close, even those who started earlier than I.
A bigger issue is that many people have speculated that your roster size and depth is taken into account when put into brackets, which completely negates the point of rewarding veterancy, instead punishing it.
However, either way as tournaments are right now, flawed and grueling they certainly dont really feel like a reward. Perhaps if tournaments are cleaned up this would make me feel better about the whole thing.
Also imo, the lower than lvl 80 tournaments rewards thing is a huge issue.
You dont score better in raids though, because your guild is also progressing too. Ive been at about the same spot for a long time and I dont see that really changing. Once you get a good raid team and your guild has one things dont change much.
As I said earlier unless your guild is usually made up of new players then zetas don't really feel like a reward, as your shardmates and guildmates are also in the same position as you. A new player wont have to deal with opposing zetas until they themselves start getting them, and both of us fight for the same rewards.
Cantina currency is a decent point but its minor. GW is not applicable, because before ships were released Ally points were used by CG to empty most of us who banked, leaving players from 6 months old and onward all in basically the same boat. And youre not really progressing any faster, if anything the new ship currency (and the fact that new players face much weaker ship teams for the same rewards) means faster progression for new players.
The gear barrier sucks for everyone. I suppose from the standpoint of character collecting, vets are at a large advantage when it comes to gear, but my OP is writen from the perspective that arena is most important, and there, vets dont have an advantage.
Funny thing is is that I agree to a certain extent, I actually wrote a thread befoe talking about this problem with new players. But the game having noob hostility problems and vet problems are not exclusive of each other. I cant refute the fact Im playing for the same rewards for months and will be it seems for months if I continue to play.
Where is this nonsense coming from? The lower level brackets give LESS rewards, not more. Top 25 gets the character vs top 100 in the 80+ bracket, and the gear/credits, etc are less.
A 70 who plays comparatively better versus their peers should receive better rewards than you.
If you think there's no rewards for being a vet, try being a new 80 in that bracket, going against peiople who have been farming raid gear for months. We've already got the characters we want from the galactic war shop, so can dump everything into ships or ally points, where newer players are still develiping their rosters and are pulled in many directions.
The game absolutely favors those who have been in it longer against a new player with comparable spending.
I just passed boba to gear X and for him to get gear XI I am looking at probably a month of farming minimum. This is just an example as to why arena is stale and people never change their team. You got this feeling that in fact you committed to maybe couple of dozens toons that you brought to gear X/XI and now that level cap increased you have no real alternative then to keep gearing them to remain competitive with no time to bring up a brand new toon to competitive level. Even less a brand new arena team.
My first paragraph solution would in no way fix the issue described in the second one. It is just an additional quality of life. Especially that raid gear requires a lot of those horrible white, green, blue gear (thinking scanner and droid caller here).
It is that way (beating peers means better rewards than lvl 85 players) because it was arbitrarily defined that way. If it had been a server wide tournament instead to begin with, I could say that I deserve more rewards than that guy who earned his 6 star erso as a lvl 70.
Anyway, Arena is already a battle against peers. Why does everything in the game need to be a battle against only peers? Its like if you play a video game, and the enemies get +1 armor every time you get +1 attack. Youre not really upgrading. And yes, I enjoy the peer battles too sometimes, but after months of it it gets old. All im saying is some minor stuff that isn't peer vs peer stale shard stuff would be a great motivator to vets. Not game breaking rewards, just some minor new stuff to play with or strive for.
I don't have more banked things, I couldn't place top 20 in arena whereas they could get 1 and get farm more gems and shoot right past me.
I was one of those people who had extremely hard GW. I didn't farm Anakin or Boba.
All your points are invalid from the perspective of a F2P
Sorry, responding to the edit:
Yeah yeah, lvl 80 blues I know, it sucks. Its not a good thing that lvl 80s get the short end of the stick when they get to that level (assuming that tournament brackets arent heavily influenced by roster size and depth). But these problems are not exclusive of each other. What youre saying doesnt refute my
point. Largely, ive been playing for the same rewards for months, and likely will be for months. Tournaments are an exception, and a really iffy one at that.
And thats because tournaments as they are suck. They are not enjoyable and leave many without a reward at all and cant serve as a reward for veteran players, for reasons I states earlier.
As a kid, did you also want to play sports against toddlers so you could win? Beating up on a lower level player isnt "more deserving". Sorry you cant hack it against people in your level range. Maybe suck less?
My evidence for this is mainly Marvel : War of Heroes. Big franchise, massive fan base, released October 2012, servers switched off mid-2016. True, it was a TCG, but I don't feel it's a stretch of the imagination to be able to compare the SWGOH characters to cards.
Rage of Bahamut also suffered a similar fate although I believe it lasted slightly longer (and is still going strong in Japan).
I used to play War of Heroes, but quit when they started this kind of anti-Robin Hood kind of atmosphere - where only the players prepared to spend the most money could compete in the events which, unsurprisingly, had the strongest cards as their rewards. I feel that this is starting to happen in SWGOH - AP can for sure be linked to real-money spend, albeit indirectly. If this trend continues, you can add me to the list of people uninstalling; I like this game but if it keeps going in this direction with the tournaments and power-creep from tournament rewards, well, the writing's on the wall if you ask me.
Lol Im in the top 10 arena rank most days and do fine enough for me in tournaments. You realize that many successful games like WoW or basically any succesful MMORPG have a much better end game than this one? And has a lot more content for vets? Beating up on lower levels isnt the point, (and I wouldnt be anyway because after 10 minutes in this tournament Id be fighting people like me) its rewarding vets.
Sorry you can't comprehend what I write. Maybe take an english class?
This right here is why for a long time I've felt like events really should be the answer. Problem is their event setup right now is terrible. When was the last time any vet saw an event icon that wasn't credit heist and got even remotely excited?
Some of them have challenging final tiers, but even if you have the breadth of roster and strength of characters to finish what's the point? I for one am really looking forward to my 2-10 General Veers shards... /s
Yoda event was cool, and the first time around I didn't finish even as a day 1 player because I didn't have the Jedi. You can bet i was prepared the next time around though. It was one of the biggest senses of accomplishment I've felt in this game. And now I can't even replay the event for fun when it replays... Why?
Same with Palpatine.
Those events were cool. Military Might could be cool to if they ran it a little more often, varied it a bit each time, and made the rewards worth playing for. Intermix it with the other banked events and add a few more to the rotation, and that may just get vets excited about... something.
I have to disagree. I started in late April, am completely f2p, and have been top 5 in arena for a couple months now and top 10 for longer than that. I can get characters from any tournament I want if I've saved at least 200k ally points. I learned early on that this is not in fact a collection game, in the sense of pokemon. This is a game of focusing on maxing teams. The AAT raid is even further proof of that.
GW is only hard at max level if you have one max team and then a bunch g7/8 toons. GW at early levels is much harder and time consuming. If you don't believe me, start an alt.
@OP:
Players that were level 30-70 did not have an easier time getting characters from tournaments. They had to fight the early whales on their tourney shards. They didn't have a chance to get that character to 7* .
You are one of the lucky who started near the top of arena.
I started 10k+
I have multiple max teams and I can finish GW easier now.
The main point is the majority of players (90%+) are F2P and didn't get a lucky shard start.
From what Ive heard, there are less whales in the earlier shards. But even if I concede tournaments are a reward for vets (which i dont, because many vets who try dont get decent rewards, tournaments are unenjoyable, brackets seem rigged, and as a less important note 200k allypoints means sacrificing ships or another tourney) then theres still the issue of playing for the same rewards for months. Its going to be that way for the AAT raid soon too and judging by
how long it took for the raid to come out its going to be like that for a really really
long time. Im not even that old of a player and my guild is near beating Heroic, so it really doesnt seem like the guys who started in 2015 really have much more on me. Plus raids are also unenjoyable for many too tbh.
I think some good well crafted events or the raaaare server wide tourney is a decent idea.
Agreed on the fact that they reward whaleness more than veterancy (such is the nature of a game that needs to make money), but then you're comparing apples and oranges.
The fact remains a f2p's from a december 2015 vs f2p from a May shard... the December guy is at an advantage.
Same as p2p from december 2015 vs a p2p from a May shard... the December guy is at an advantage.
The grouping being made by roster size/depth is false, if that would be true we wouldn't see (coff cheaters coff) toping a leaderboard with 5 g10/g11 characters, while some people on the same leaderboard have 30 or 40...
Don't get me wrong though, I'm not a fan, by any means, of tournaments.
But, that doesn't mean I think they should reward veterancy either, be it on tournaments or other game features.
If your guild is composed by people in which everyone started around the same time, then yes, you don't score better because your guild is also progressing.
But if that's the case, then there is no veterancy issue, because everyone is around the same "age".
However, if there is an age difference (you started to play earlier than they they did) you should have better scores (assuming you took reasonable choices in farming ([e.g. not farming JKG or mob enforcer] and the $ spent is similar to that of your "younger" guildmate).
On the zetas, well vs shardmates there is no veterancy issue (again you all started at the same time), vs your guildmates that isn't exactly true.
Zeta Barriss and watch yourself outperforming your guildmates in p1 heroic, or Zeta Cody and do it in p2..
And, see above, if you score higher then rewards/currency come faster, so you should progress faster.
Trying to see this game like individual sections is wrong, everything is intertwined, and the time factor is an obvious advantage.
GW is applicable. You just proved that by being in a May shard you had GW currency banked... That gave you an advantage in the tournament vs players on your leaderboard from say September, because they shouldn't (assuming similar $ spent) have as much currency banked as you...
Yes, you were at an disadvantage vs older players... because they had more banked currency than you...
But didn't you want to reward veterancy? there you have it.
If anything the problem is/was exactly rewarding that veterancy.
Personally, I think this game should be more noob friendlier.
If we want the game to last, a steady flow of new players must keep joining, otherwise it won't compensate the people that the game loses (be it boredom, finding other games, etc...)...
And if you present a to steep progression to a new player he will probably lose interest soon.
That said, and without pondering too much on it:
Gear to gear 10 should be easier to farm;
Older characters should have higher drop rates.
To help newer players shorten the gap.
Zetas and reworks alone make toons a 1 year player has basically maxed (or close to) an instant hit.
Yes a "new player" could walk right into the current meta, but will they have all the resources and abilities to build solid tank arena teams as quickly as a seasoned player.
This game is a grind and even the addition of new toons will never out weigh time. I have so many toons either unlocked or ready to be unlocked, one change and I can activate 7* and gear before a "new" player could finish the farm.
Depth of roster in " the event that shall not be named" helps me run 4-5 teams that I don't think a "new" player can field.
I have a decent selection of mods that may not be the best, but at the drop of a hat I have options that a new player might have to strip his best team to make an ok second.
Not everyone was saving them but again at the start of the "event" ally coins were abundant no new player would have had as many.
All in all there are many benefits to being a vet. And I'm ok with new players not feeling left out, we need new blood to keep the lights on.
Im thinking around the time you can do all of the features of the game with consistent success (or I should say, results) is a decent definition not for vets but for those afflicted with the problem Im mentioning.
Excluding tournaments I guess, and maaaaaybe Heroic AAT?, due to guild variance or people choosing to stay in weaker guilds.
I started in the 5k's on my shard. Worked my way up. What does starting position have to do with anything? I didn't say I got a high rank early. I worked on teams that succeeded early and maxed them. When I got to max level I pushed into the top 20, then 10, now 5.
Saying a F2P from a December shard over a F2P from a May shard isn't necessarily true, a few reason:
1. The December Shard could be full of whales leading to much slower progression
2. The December player starts at 10k+ while the May player starts at rank 10
3. The December player does not have as much time as the May player
4. The December player farms to wrong toons that will be useful in later meta.