In case you're missing the point (which I'm assured you are at this point, ha - no pun intended) then I'll explain with another example -
Rogue One was an AMAZING movie. I thought it was one of the best Star Wars flicks ever created. Yet it was completely unnecessary. Did we actually need R1? No. We would've been quite fine without it.
Again, this is what I'm saying. Bloat and milking.
Granted, I have not worked in professional level media for very long, however, I've studied mass media and advertising and am still VERY familiar with how massive studios, advertisers, and the like painstakingly analyze every single aspect of their products. When billions of dollars are on the line, nothing is an accident and every decision is carefully made to maximize profit.
So I do in fact understand (and agree with) your point about the inception of Star Wars media in the last 20 years. Never have I stated that the prequel trilogy, the Clone Wars show, Rebels, or the multitude of movies being released were not thought up of a boardroom of studio executives to take advantage of a marketable fanbase. However, I disagree with your belief that those products should be discounted as "pointless" and "unnecessary" simply because of the reasons for that inception or because a trilogy of movies eventually became a franchise. These products still deserve to be critiqued objectively and fairly regardless of the story behind them or because of your principles.
You dont have to agree with me on this, but personally, a "pointless" star wars product doesn't add anything to the lore. As horrific and terrible as they are, the prequels made the Star Wars saga into the Star Wars universe. With the help of the Clone Wars, those movies added scale and depth to a narrowly focused series. Even though I didn't like Rogue One (I almost consider it pointless), it gives some context to how the Alliance doesn't necessarily function as a singular unit. I dont think Rebels is pointless because it shows how independent rebel cells eventually became the Alliance, the existence of which is kind of taken for granted in ANW.
I'm not defending the current blockbuster economy. I think its tragic how successful the movies of people like George Lucas, Michael Bay, Zack Snyder, Brett Ratner, and Paul W. S. Anderson are while the movies of people like Charlie Kaufman and Jeremy Saulier lose millions of dollars. However, you can't blame the studios for the desires of mass audiences. Sequels, reboots, adaptations and the like are only as successful as they are because mass audiences dont like to leave their comfort zone.
In case you're missing the point (which I'm assured you are at this point, ha - no pun intended) then I'll explain with another example -
Rogue One was an AMAZING movie. I thought it was one of the best Star Wars flicks ever created. Yet it was completely unnecessary. Did we actually need R1? No. We would've been quite fine without it.
Again, this is what I'm saying. Bloat and milking.
Granted, I have not worked in professional level media for very long, however, I've studied mass media and advertising and am still VERY familiar with how massive studios, advertisers, and the like painstakingly analyze every single aspect of their products. When billions of dollars are on the line, nothing is an accident and every decision is carefully made to maximize profit.
So I do in fact understand (and agree with) your point about the inception of Star Wars media in the last 20 years. Never have I stated that the prequel trilogy, the Clone Wars show, Rebels, or the multitude of movies being released were not thought up of a boardroom of studio executives to take advantage of a marketable fanbase. However, I disagree with your belief that those products should be discounted as "pointless" and "unnecessary" simply because of the reasons for that inception or because a trilogy of movies eventually became a franchise. These products still deserve to be critiqued objectively and fairly regardless of the story behind them or because of your principles.
You dont have to agree with me on this, but personally, a "pointless" star wars product doesn't add anything to the lore. As horrific and terrible as they are, the prequels made the Star Wars saga into the Star Wars universe. With the help of the Clone Wars, those movies added scale and depth to a narrowly focused series. Even though I didn't like Rogue One (I almost consider it pointless), it gives some context to how the Alliance doesn't necessarily function as a singular unit. I dont think Rebels is pointless because it shows how independent rebel cells eventually became the Alliance, the existence of which is kind of taken for granted in ANW.
I'm not defending the current blockbuster economy. I think its tragic how successful the movies of people like George Lucas, Michael Bay, Zack Snyder, Brett Ratner, and Paul W. S. Anderson are while the movies of people like Charlie Kaufman and Jeremy Saulier lose millions of dollars. However, you can't blame the studios for the desires of mass audiences. Sequels, reboots, adaptations and the like are only as successful as they are because mass audiences dont like to leave their comfort zone.
+1
What a fantastic post. I completely respect it. Honestly I'm lashing out because I despise what modern art (movies, games, music, tv, cinema, etc.) has devolved into, especially my beloved Star Wars. Ironically my heart is still the heart of an artist. Art has become an unfortunate lackey for corporate and political interests and it's painstakingly obvious, especially when you are directly told by your producers and editors what to do and what not.
I don't have much to add here because you pretty much hit the nail on the hammer. Great post.
In case you're missing the point (which I'm assured you are at this point, ha - no pun intended) then I'll explain with another example -
Rogue One was an AMAZING movie. I thought it was one of the best Star Wars flicks ever created. Yet it was completely unnecessary. Did we actually need R1? No. We would've been quite fine without it.
Again, this is what I'm saying. Bloat and milking.
Granted, I have not worked in professional level media for very long, however, I've studied mass media and advertising and am still VERY familiar with how massive studios, advertisers, and the like painstakingly analyze every single aspect of their products. When billions of dollars are on the line, nothing is an accident and every decision is carefully made to maximize profit.
So I do in fact understand (and agree with) your point about the inception of Star Wars media in the last 20 years. Never have I stated that the prequel trilogy, the Clone Wars show, Rebels, or the multitude of movies being released were not thought up of a boardroom of studio executives to take advantage of a marketable fanbase. However, I disagree with your belief that those products should be discounted as "pointless" and "unnecessary" simply because of the reasons for that inception or because a trilogy of movies eventually became a franchise. These products still deserve to be critiqued objectively and fairly regardless of the story behind them or because of your principles.
You dont have to agree with me on this, but personally, a "pointless" star wars product doesn't add anything to the lore. As horrific and terrible as they are, the prequels made the Star Wars saga into the Star Wars universe. With the help of the Clone Wars, those movies added scale and depth to a narrowly focused series. Even though I didn't like Rogue One (I almost consider it pointless), it gives some context to how the Alliance doesn't necessarily function as a singular unit. I dont think Rebels is pointless because it shows how independent rebel cells eventually became the Alliance, the existence of which is kind of taken for granted in ANW.
I'm not defending the current blockbuster economy. I think its tragic how successful the movies of people like George Lucas, Michael Bay, Zack Snyder, Brett Ratner, and Paul W. S. Anderson are while the movies of people like Charlie Kaufman and Jeremy Saulier lose millions of dollars. However, you can't blame the studios for the desires of mass audiences. Sequels, reboots, adaptations and the like are only as successful as they are because mass audiences dont like to leave their comfort zone.
+1
What a fantastic post. I completely respect it. Honestly I'm lashing out because I despise what modern art (movies, games, music, tv, cinema, etc.) has devolved into, especially my beloved Star Wars. Ironically my heart is still the heart of an artist. Art has become an unfortunate lackey for corporate and political interests and it's painstakingly obvious, especially when you are directly told by your producers and editors what to do and what not.
I don't have much to add here because you pretty much hit the nail on the hammer. Great post.
They best all die in the end! I'll be **** if Disney pussy out of killing them off. There can be. I other plausible explanation as to why these characters aren't around by the time of ANH, it has to be death!
Well Chopper and Hera are at the battle of Scarif.
But theres a few points you miss.
The OT tells the story of the battle of Yavin IV, Hoth and Endor.
You never see the Battle of Sullust which very much is mentioned in the movies. (Thought it tale is told in the Star Wars: Battlefront: Twilight company book)
So the Majority of the team could be off in the other parts of the Galactic Civil war a little farther away than Leias High command.
Because it was created to milk the cow. The storylines are in reality, pointless, because of the originals. Therefore everything that happens in Rebels is unnecessary and nothing more than bloat and filter.
How are they pointless? Your point would (sort of) be valid if the show was only made up of characters from the OT, but even then, their stories would still be interesting. By this logic, Clone Wars would be at even greater fault because we know what happens to the characters before the show even starts. But alas, Clone Wars is still a good show with engaging storylines.
With Rebels, we have no idea what will happen to most of the characters. We know that Hera, Chopper, and the Ghost are around for Rogue One, but we dont even know if they perished or not in the battle of Scarif.
Edit: the quality of a story is not determined by how it ends but in how its told
Really none of what you said disproves my post and to add for that matter, Clone Wars is also equally useless. Sorry but not sorry. It's the truth.
Like the show(s) all you want, it makes no difference to the merit.
Take it from someone who works in creative production. They were created to milk the cow and appeal to a new age of Star Wars fans. It doesn't matter what happens in them. The arcs can be the most incredible storytelling in the world and yet they're absolutely pointless in the grand scope because we all know what happens in EP 1-6. And moreso in the case of Rebels, 4-6.
Again, bloat and filter / cash cow milking.
Disney is a globalist corporation, get with the times.
The prequels were a weird, complicated mess. The Clone wars fleshed them out and made me see they were meant to be a complex story about how a democracy can descend into a dictatorship, the dangers of having a church subservient to the state, and about love and loyalty can be twisted into insecurities that destroy you.
They also made Anakin into a likeable character with some faults, from the whiny, emotional mess that he was portrayed in the films. The clone wars were not useless at all
The arcs can be the most incredible storytelling in the world and yet they're absolutely pointless in the grand scope
The prequels badly needed to be fleshed out for the story to be good. By logic, episodes 8-9 are going to be completely pointless since we all know what's going to happen--Luke's going to train Rey as a Jedi, there's going to be some roadblocks along the way, and the first order is going to be defeated
Absolutely none of this disproves anything I've posted and you're going off on another point entirely. But for the sake of my own amusement, I'll dissect.
The prequels badly needed to be fleshed out for the story to be good.
Subjective opinion. It was never mandatory for them to be created, even if the characters and events weren't fleshed. An example of countering this is another movie like say, Avengers, and making a side movie / TV show etc. about why Hulk needed to use the toilet before showing up in the final fight. Really, it's not a good point.
By logic, episodes 8-9 are going to be completely pointless since we all know what's going to happen--Luke's going to train Rey as a Jedi, there's going to be some roadblocks along the way, and the first order is going to be defeated
That is a predictive summary that may or may not be true. Here's the thing that defeats your point entirely. Neither episode 8 or 9 are out. 1-6 are. Therefore, at best, all you can do is guess. Again, I've only responded to this for my amusement because the logic was laughable.
Now back to the point that you are missing.
Take it from someone who works in creative production for a living. These series' (Rebels, Clone Wars etc. and others like it non-SW related for other franchises etc) were not created because the producers said - "Hey guys, I think we need to flesh out the characters or add additional sidestory for story merit purposes!"
That is delusional and that is not how the real world works.
Here's how it does work.
Producer A says, "So, SW made a lot of money on that last movie - what do you guys think of creating a side story to it? Easy revenue, easy ROI."
Producer B agrees, "Good idea. The kids in the demographic between ages 8-12 would jump on it."
Produce C adds, "And SW needs an update for the youth. It's perfect."
Producer A says, "Alright, let's get some screenwriters to pitch up a draft and we'll show it to Lucas."
Get it?
It's not about making a good story. Look, I've written for movies and books - I appreciate a good story, but the reality is that the people who produce this content - Star Wars or otherwise - Do not care about a good story or your precious, fleshed out points and characters. That is an afterthought that if, should it happen, would only add to their interests. Their interests is money. Even if it means milking the cow.
Rebels and Clone Wars were created to milk the cow. You can bury your head in the sand about it all you want but it's the flat truth.
Almost every professional film is created to make money as its primary purpose. I'm not arguing that; I'm saying that the prequels were bad on their own and they needed the Clone Wars cartoons to redeem them.
But I'm glad to know you responded to this for your amusement and that you work in creative production for a living. You must be a real winner.....
Because it was created to milk the cow. The storylines are in reality, pointless, because of the originals. Therefore everything that happens in Rebels is unnecessary and nothing more than bloat and filter.
How are they pointless? Your point would (sort of) be valid if the show was only made up of characters from the OT, but even then, their stories would still be interesting. By this logic, Clone Wars would be at even greater fault because we know what happens to the characters before the show even starts. But alas, Clone Wars is still a good show with engaging storylines.
With Rebels, we have no idea what will happen to most of the characters. We know that Hera, Chopper, and the Ghost are around for Rogue One, but we dont even know if they perished or not in the battle of Scarif.
Edit: the quality of a story is not determined by how it ends but in how its told
Really none of what you said disproves my post and to add for that matter, Clone Wars is also equally useless. Sorry but not sorry. It's the truth.
Like the show(s) all you want, it makes no difference to the merit.
Take it from someone who works in creative production. They were created to milk the cow and appeal to a new age of Star Wars fans. It doesn't matter what happens in them. The arcs can be the most incredible storytelling in the world and yet they're absolutely pointless in the grand scope because we all know what happens in EP 1-6. And moreso in the case of Rebels, 4-6.
Again, bloat and filter / cash cow milking.
Disney is a globalist corporation, get with the times.
The prequels were a weird, complicated mess. The Clone wars fleshed them out and made me see they were meant to be a complex story about how a democracy can descend into a dictatorship, the dangers of having a church subservient to the state, and about love and loyalty can be twisted into insecurities that destroy you.
They also made Anakin into a likeable character with some faults, from the whiny, emotional mess that he was portrayed in the films. The clone wars were not useless at all
The arcs can be the most incredible storytelling in the world and yet they're absolutely pointless in the grand scope
The prequels badly needed to be fleshed out for the story to be good. By logic, episodes 8-9 are going to be completely pointless since we all know what's going to happen--Luke's going to train Rey as a Jedi, there's going to be some roadblocks along the way, and the first order is going to be defeated
Absolutely none of this disproves anything I've posted and you're going off on another point entirely. But for the sake of my own amusement, I'll dissect.
The prequels badly needed to be fleshed out for the story to be good.
Subjective opinion. It was never mandatory for them to be created, even if the characters and events weren't fleshed. An example of countering this is another movie like say, Avengers, and making a side movie / TV show etc. about why Hulk needed to use the toilet before showing up in the final fight. Really, it's not a good point.
By logic, episodes 8-9 are going to be completely pointless since we all know what's going to happen--Luke's going to train Rey as a Jedi, there's going to be some roadblocks along the way, and the first order is going to be defeated
That is a predictive summary that may or may not be true. Here's the thing that defeats your point entirely. Neither episode 8 or 9 are out. 1-6 are. Therefore, at best, all you can do is guess. Again, I've only responded to this for my amusement because the logic was laughable.
Now back to the point that you are missing.
Take it from someone who works in creative production for a living. These series' (Rebels, Clone Wars etc. and others like it non-SW related for other franchises etc) were not created because the producers said - "Hey guys, I think we need to flesh out the characters or add additional sidestory for story merit purposes!"
That is delusional and that is not how the real world works.
Here's how it does work.
Producer A says, "So, SW made a lot of money on that last movie - what do you guys think of creating a side story to it? Easy revenue, easy ROI."
Producer B agrees, "Good idea. The kids in the demographic between ages 8-12 would jump on it."
Produce C adds, "And SW needs an update for the youth. It's perfect."
Producer A says, "Alright, let's get some screenwriters to pitch up a draft and we'll show it to Lucas."
Get it?
It's not about making a good story. Look, I've written for movies and books - I appreciate a good story, but the reality is that the people who produce this content - Star Wars or otherwise - Do not care about a good story or your precious, fleshed out points and characters. That is an afterthought that if, should it happen, would only add to their interests. Their interests is money. Even if it means milking the cow.
Rebels and Clone Wars were created to milk the cow. You can bury your head in the sand about it all you want but it's the flat truth.
Almost every professional film is created to make money as its primary purpose. I'm not arguing that; I'm saying that the prequels were bad on their own and they needed the Clone Wars cartoons to redeem them.
But I'm glad to know you responded to this for your amusement and that you work in creative production for a living. You must be a real winner.....
Thats where you are wrong.
The prequels didnt need TCW to redeem them.
They were created in tandom with Delrey books and Dark horse comics and very much had the EU in mind.
The Republic comics and the Clone wars era novels were great.
Because it was created to milk the cow. The storylines are in reality, pointless, because of the originals. Therefore everything that happens in Rebels is unnecessary and nothing more than bloat and filter.
How are they pointless? Your point would (sort of) be valid if the show was only made up of characters from the OT, but even then, their stories would still be interesting. By this logic, Clone Wars would be at even greater fault because we know what happens to the characters before the show even starts. But alas, Clone Wars is still a good show with engaging storylines.
With Rebels, we have no idea what will happen to most of the characters. We know that Hera, Chopper, and the Ghost are around for Rogue One, but we dont even know if they perished or not in the battle of Scarif.
Edit: the quality of a story is not determined by how it ends but in how its told
Really none of what you said disproves my post and to add for that matter, Clone Wars is also equally useless. Sorry but not sorry. It's the truth.
Like the show(s) all you want, it makes no difference to the merit.
Take it from someone who works in creative production. They were created to milk the cow and appeal to a new age of Star Wars fans. It doesn't matter what happens in them. The arcs can be the most incredible storytelling in the world and yet they're absolutely pointless in the grand scope because we all know what happens in EP 1-6. And moreso in the case of Rebels, 4-6.
Again, bloat and filter / cash cow milking.
Disney is a globalist corporation, get with the times.
The prequels were a weird, complicated mess. The Clone wars fleshed them out and made me see they were meant to be a complex story about how a democracy can descend into a dictatorship, the dangers of having a church subservient to the state, and about love and loyalty can be twisted into insecurities that destroy you.
They also made Anakin into a likeable character with some faults, from the whiny, emotional mess that he was portrayed in the films. The clone wars were not useless at all
The arcs can be the most incredible storytelling in the world and yet they're absolutely pointless in the grand scope
The prequels badly needed to be fleshed out for the story to be good. By logic, episodes 8-9 are going to be completely pointless since we all know what's going to happen--Luke's going to train Rey as a Jedi, there's going to be some roadblocks along the way, and the first order is going to be defeated
Absolutely none of this disproves anything I've posted and you're going off on another point entirely. But for the sake of my own amusement, I'll dissect.
The prequels badly needed to be fleshed out for the story to be good.
Subjective opinion. It was never mandatory for them to be created, even if the characters and events weren't fleshed. An example of countering this is another movie like say, Avengers, and making a side movie / TV show etc. about why Hulk needed to use the toilet before showing up in the final fight. Really, it's not a good point.
By logic, episodes 8-9 are going to be completely pointless since we all know what's going to happen--Luke's going to train Rey as a Jedi, there's going to be some roadblocks along the way, and the first order is going to be defeated
That is a predictive summary that may or may not be true. Here's the thing that defeats your point entirely. Neither episode 8 or 9 are out. 1-6 are. Therefore, at best, all you can do is guess. Again, I've only responded to this for my amusement because the logic was laughable.
Now back to the point that you are missing.
Take it from someone who works in creative production for a living. These series' (Rebels, Clone Wars etc. and others like it non-SW related for other franchises etc) were not created because the producers said - "Hey guys, I think we need to flesh out the characters or add additional sidestory for story merit purposes!"
That is delusional and that is not how the real world works.
Here's how it does work.
Producer A says, "So, SW made a lot of money on that last movie - what do you guys think of creating a side story to it? Easy revenue, easy ROI."
Producer B agrees, "Good idea. The kids in the demographic between ages 8-12 would jump on it."
Produce C adds, "And SW needs an update for the youth. It's perfect."
Producer A says, "Alright, let's get some screenwriters to pitch up a draft and we'll show it to Lucas."
Get it?
It's not about making a good story. Look, I've written for movies and books - I appreciate a good story, but the reality is that the people who produce this content - Star Wars or otherwise - Do not care about a good story or your precious, fleshed out points and characters. That is an afterthought that if, should it happen, would only add to their interests. Their interests is money. Even if it means milking the cow.
Rebels and Clone Wars were created to milk the cow. You can bury your head in the sand about it all you want but it's the flat truth.
Almost every professional film is created to make money as its primary purpose. I'm not arguing that; I'm saying that the prequels were bad on their own and they needed the Clone Wars cartoons to redeem them.
And I'm letting you know that - that, what you're saying about 'they were needed because the prequels needed more fleshing' is still just a subjective opinion, not a production decision as to WHY these shows are made. No show is ever made because they say, "we need to flesh out X, Y, B because U, V and C."
Besides, some wouldn't even think the prequels needed any more fleshing. Again, that is just a subjective opinion. Like I said, a good example is Rogue One. Great movie and yet completely unneeded. The argument over if it's good or bad has nothing to do with why I'm posting. Enjoy them all you want. (or don't)
But I'm glad to know you responded to this for your amusement and that you work in creative production for a living. You must be a real winner.....
When i first watched the show it was immediately after i watched star wars clone wars the cartoon network series is astounding from visuals, music, narration, choreography etc. This made me watch star wars rebels which at first i wasn't impressed but it later grew on me if there is one thing that the show has over clone wars is that you get to see 6 of their main chars consistently giving them more ways to shine and be unique.
but the show has things which is unlikable with season 3 just ending here are a few things which I think the show addressees poorly.
1. The show is forced to meet quota on number of shows. In were the result is they are forced to make episodes to increase character development but is totally disconnected from the story.
2. EXPECTING THAT VIEWERS TO HAVE WATCHED ALL STAR WARS MOVIES AND SERIES. an important factor which the show forgets. love or hate the twin suns episode lets face it the first 10-15 mins were totally useless. It doesn't matter that the fight was short or that they mirrored Star wars Ep 1 the phantom menace. They expected the viewers to know and remember, they wasted minutes of useless banter of which they could have shown an explanation of the narrative of the feud of maul and obi wan.
3. special guest characters brings hype if you know them but they quickly become irrelevant. lando, ashoka, hando, leia, rex's friends are great characters and the episodes with them are great too but they fade away in time forgotten why they even appeared in the first place, ask yourself can you remember what was their purpose the only character that I am trully hapy to this day is rex.
You know, it's also okay to not like a show. Period. End of statement, doesn't matter if it's SW or not.
I just finished a Trilogy (The Southern Reach Trilogy, by Vandermeer, if you care for some reason) - the first book was stellar. Maybe one of the best I've read in the last 6 months. But books 2 and 3 were not so great. They had merits, I could see how they expanded on book 1, but they really nothing like it at all.
It doesn't matter why he wrote book 2 and 3, for money or to flesh out book 1's background. The point is they don't stand up nearly as well.
It happens.
Rebels is missing a certain je ne sais quoi. I applaud people for defending the show or explaining why it doesn't have a leg to stand on. But, lets be honest, where are the threads complaining about all the content from TCW? Where's the threads slamming Ahsoka for being in SW, or the various clones? There aren't any, even in the Hateful 8 style forum we have going here, there is a general consent that TCW can ride on it's own laurels, even if you didn't love it.
They best all die in the end! I'll be **** if Disney pussy out of killing them off. There can be. I other plausible explanation as to why these characters aren't around by the time of ANH, it has to be death!
Well Chopper and Hera are at the battle of Scarif.
But theres a few points you miss.
The OT tells the story of the battle of Yavin IV, Hoth and Endor.
You never see the Battle of Sullust which very much is mentioned in the movies. (Thought it tale is told in the Star Wars: Battlefront: Twilight company book)
So the Majority of the team could be off in the other parts of the Galactic Civil war a little farther away than Leias High command.
Kanan/Ezra are the only issues
Agreed. It's a Galactic Civil War.
The original trilogy took us to only 5 planets out of 7 that the war (or least a piece of it) actually took place. IMO only, Tattooine and Dagohbah was not actively part of the war. Alderaan (less so), Yavin, Hoth, Bespin (less so), and Endor. Though now we've expanded that count with Rogue One and Rebels.
I can imagine few hundred more lower tier Generals and Commanders having their own skirmishes and battles, at various other planets.
When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
Started mid-FEB 2017, and not trying to reach the top.
Because it was created to milk the cow. The storylines are in reality, pointless, because of the originals. Therefore everything that happens in Rebels is unnecessary and nothing more than bloat and filter.
How are they pointless? Your point would (sort of) be valid if the show was only made up of characters from the OT, but even then, their stories would still be interesting. By this logic, Clone Wars would be at even greater fault because we know what happens to the characters before the show even starts. But alas, Clone Wars is still a good show with engaging storylines.
With Rebels, we have no idea what will happen to most of the characters. We know that Hera, Chopper, and the Ghost are around for Rogue One, but we dont even know if they perished or not in the battle of Scarif.
Edit: the quality of a story is not determined by how it ends but in how its told
Really none of what you said disproves my post and to add for that matter, Clone Wars is also equally useless. Sorry but not sorry. It's the truth.
Like the show(s) all you want, it makes no difference to the merit.
Take it from someone who works in creative production. They were created to milk the cow and appeal to a new age of Star Wars fans. It doesn't matter what happens in them. The arcs can be the most incredible storytelling in the world and yet they're absolutely pointless in the grand scope because we all know what happens in EP 1-6. And moreso in the case of Rebels, 4-6.
Again, bloat and filter / cash cow milking.
Disney is a globalist corporation, get with the times.
Well this is a silly-**** argument. By this logic everything but the first movie was bloat and filler made to milk the cow. Not just every book and game, byt even Empire and Jedi.
Thise movies were made to explain what happens next (and, in the prequels, earlier) but weren't necessary.
Well this is a silly-**** argument. By this logic everything but the first movie was bloat and filler made to milk the cow. Not just every book and game, byt even Empire and Jedi.
Except the prequels were handled by Lucas - the artist who created this fantastic work.
Ok. I don't really understand why people hate rebels. I don't like it, but I will say it has its moments. Very few shows that I have seen have had no redeemable qualities, and rebels is no acception. Rebels has had many faults, but it's done a lot of things right also. And c'mon, rebels is way better than the crap they're showing on Cartoon Network and nickelodian these days. The shows main focus is for kids, but it turned out better than teen titans go, which basically took a big steaming dump on the old teen titans show. Rebels might not be the best Star Wars addition, but it's better than most things these days. For instance, just hearing James earl jones voice Vader is enough to hype me up for an episode of rebels, no matter how bad some parts are.
Characters are terribly cliche, light saber design, the rework or a lot of canon (something I'm bitter about with Star Wars as a whole, not necessarily rebels).
The first couple seasons were horribly kid friendly as opposed to clone wars which could also appeal to adults (im 27). But I'll admit I've seen a few newer episodes and I can at least watch without getting bored.
I think the idea of inquisitors is just **** and they are bath vey forgettable and I never felt like they had the gravitas of a true sith or enemy figure.
Maul- he should be dead. Let it go! Also a Star Wars as a whole problem, not rebels exactly
It's bad.
Other points:
1. Why does Sabine, an unaccomplished, fail "mandolorian" get the DarkSaber (which maul had)?
2. Why do they always win?
3. Why are the empire dumb?
4. Why does Ahsoka fight for the rebels even though she said she has no side??????????????
5. Why did they canonize clone mindchips?
6. Why was trash in rouge one?
7. When will Disney get an original idea?
8. When will Sith Lord Jar Jar actually be used (much better than what they currently do)
9. A lightSABER cannot fire BLASTER bolts.
10. KANAN isn't a JEDI, he is a PADAWAN.
1. Finders keepers
2. Because its a children's TV show and it has to go on
3. Only until season 3
4. Because she still does what she thinks is right
5. Because order 66 makes absolutely no sense in the prequels (and they were already canon bc of CW)
6. Dont know what you're saying
7. They stick to what people have liked in the past. But there are still plenty of original characters.
8. Dont be a troll
9. Says who? You dont get to complain about disney not having original ideas then complain when they add something new. Pick one
10. Yes, kanan wasn't a jedi knight when the order fell and it makes him an interesting character. When hes teaching ezra he makes mistakes because he isnt some jedi master. Hes just a run of the mill jedi without crazy special abilities. This makes him an engaging character. Even if you dont like him, i fail to see how mentioning a fact about his character is a criticism of the show.
Very well said DatBoi. All this high-brow, extremely subjective and supercilious "criticism" really rubs me the wrong way.
Well this is a silly-**** argument. By this logic everything but the first movie was bloat and filler made to milk the cow. Not just every book and game, byt even Empire and Jedi.
Except the prequels were handled by Lucas - the artist who created this fantastic work.
Interesting and totally valid points by the media guys on this thread.
Yep, it's to make money. By entertaining, and developing the diagesis, the narrative of the overreaching story. In that respect it's no different to the layers and backgrounds created by Tolkien for Middle Earth, or by George R. R. Martin for Westeros (several hundred characters and counting). It creates depth, context and motivation for everything that occurs, and consequences for everything that happens. Otherwise you might as well be watching Road Runner. The production might be for a younger audience, but so was the original Harry Potter film. The last films were most certainly not, and the narrative had developed along with its audience, who had grown older with each passing movie. Why should Rebels be any different?
I would note that some refer to this series, and to Rogue One as padding. Or "bloat" to those who hate it. Yes, both are certainly "filling" since they occupy a gap in the narrative between the Fall of the Old Republic and The Battle of Yavin, so by their very nature yes they are a "filler". Just as Episode V fills the space between IV and VI. So what? Do you read just every other chapter when you open a book? Or do you expect your tales to be one-off events along a general narrative, as Robert E. Howard did with his Conan stories, from various points in his infamous career?
For my own part I consider this to be as strong a production as a great many Japanese animated series. Anime for the most part is not for kids, and yet I'd say that many themes in Rebels are equally developed, more grounded, and at times just as nihilistic. The only missing element so far is a sense of danger that comes from occasional losses. Although Ashoka and Sato are supporting characters of some prominence. This narrative is moving away from its original kiddy material and developing into something much more... weathered? Meh, can't find the word I want.
Anyway, haters, either give it a proper chance or just leave it be. Find something better to spend time on?
Post edited by Fodder1978 on
"If you recognise this thumbnail, then you have great taste, and you're really getting old"
I like Rebels. I like the animation, the story, the music, and its style. For some reason, I like the skinny lightsabers. Season 3 is the best part of the show so far but we still need to see the upcoming seasons.
I really enjoy the show. I really enjoy the new canon. I really enjoy everything Disney has done for Star Wars. I knew the last one wasn't a popular opinion, but the first two I was less aware of. I'll keep watching Rebels though
Replies
Granted, I have not worked in professional level media for very long, however, I've studied mass media and advertising and am still VERY familiar with how massive studios, advertisers, and the like painstakingly analyze every single aspect of their products. When billions of dollars are on the line, nothing is an accident and every decision is carefully made to maximize profit.
So I do in fact understand (and agree with) your point about the inception of Star Wars media in the last 20 years. Never have I stated that the prequel trilogy, the Clone Wars show, Rebels, or the multitude of movies being released were not thought up of a boardroom of studio executives to take advantage of a marketable fanbase. However, I disagree with your belief that those products should be discounted as "pointless" and "unnecessary" simply because of the reasons for that inception or because a trilogy of movies eventually became a franchise. These products still deserve to be critiqued objectively and fairly regardless of the story behind them or because of your principles.
You dont have to agree with me on this, but personally, a "pointless" star wars product doesn't add anything to the lore. As horrific and terrible as they are, the prequels made the Star Wars saga into the Star Wars universe. With the help of the Clone Wars, those movies added scale and depth to a narrowly focused series. Even though I didn't like Rogue One (I almost consider it pointless), it gives some context to how the Alliance doesn't necessarily function as a singular unit. I dont think Rebels is pointless because it shows how independent rebel cells eventually became the Alliance, the existence of which is kind of taken for granted in ANW.
I'm not defending the current blockbuster economy. I think its tragic how successful the movies of people like George Lucas, Michael Bay, Zack Snyder, Brett Ratner, and Paul W. S. Anderson are while the movies of people like Charlie Kaufman and Jeremy Saulier lose millions of dollars. However, you can't blame the studios for the desires of mass audiences. Sequels, reboots, adaptations and the like are only as successful as they are because mass audiences dont like to leave their comfort zone.
What a fantastic post. I completely respect it. Honestly I'm lashing out because I despise what modern art (movies, games, music, tv, cinema, etc.) has devolved into, especially my beloved Star Wars. Ironically my heart is still the heart of an artist. Art has become an unfortunate lackey for corporate and political interests and it's painstakingly obvious, especially when you are directly told by your producers and editors what to do and what not.
I don't have much to add here because you pretty much hit the nail on the hammer. Great post.
Glad we could find some common ground
Well Chopper and Hera are at the battle of Scarif.
But theres a few points you miss.
The OT tells the story of the battle of Yavin IV, Hoth and Endor.
You never see the Battle of Sullust which very much is mentioned in the movies. (Thought it tale is told in the Star Wars: Battlefront: Twilight company book)
So the Majority of the team could be off in the other parts of the Galactic Civil war a little farther away than Leias High command.
Kanan/Ezra are the only issues
Almost every professional film is created to make money as its primary purpose. I'm not arguing that; I'm saying that the prequels were bad on their own and they needed the Clone Wars cartoons to redeem them.
But I'm glad to know you responded to this for your amusement and that you work in creative production for a living. You must be a real winner.....
Thats where you are wrong.
The prequels didnt need TCW to redeem them.
They were created in tandom with Delrey books and Dark horse comics and very much had the EU in mind.
The Republic comics and the Clone wars era novels were great.
Besides, some wouldn't even think the prequels needed any more fleshing. Again, that is just a subjective opinion. Like I said, a good example is Rogue One. Great movie and yet completely unneeded. The argument over if it's good or bad has nothing to do with why I'm posting. Enjoy them all you want. (or don't)
Thanks.
but the show has things which is unlikable with season 3 just ending here are a few things which I think the show addressees poorly.
1. The show is forced to meet quota on number of shows. In were the result is they are forced to make episodes to increase character development but is totally disconnected from the story.
2. EXPECTING THAT VIEWERS TO HAVE WATCHED ALL STAR WARS MOVIES AND SERIES. an important factor which the show forgets. love or hate the twin suns episode lets face it the first 10-15 mins were totally useless. It doesn't matter that the fight was short or that they mirrored Star wars Ep 1 the phantom menace. They expected the viewers to know and remember, they wasted minutes of useless banter of which they could have shown an explanation of the narrative of the feud of maul and obi wan.
3. special guest characters brings hype if you know them but they quickly become irrelevant. lando, ashoka, hando, leia, rex's friends are great characters and the episodes with them are great too but they fade away in time forgotten why they even appeared in the first place, ask yourself can you remember what was their purpose the only character that I am trully hapy to this day is rex.
I just finished a Trilogy (The Southern Reach Trilogy, by Vandermeer, if you care for some reason) - the first book was stellar. Maybe one of the best I've read in the last 6 months. But books 2 and 3 were not so great. They had merits, I could see how they expanded on book 1, but they really nothing like it at all.
It doesn't matter why he wrote book 2 and 3, for money or to flesh out book 1's background. The point is they don't stand up nearly as well.
It happens.
Rebels is missing a certain je ne sais quoi. I applaud people for defending the show or explaining why it doesn't have a leg to stand on. But, lets be honest, where are the threads complaining about all the content from TCW? Where's the threads slamming Ahsoka for being in SW, or the various clones? There aren't any, even in the Hateful 8 style forum we have going here, there is a general consent that TCW can ride on it's own laurels, even if you didn't love it.
Rebels doesn't have this. It happens.
The original trilogy took us to only 5 planets out of 7 that the war (or least a piece of it) actually took place. IMO only, Tattooine and Dagohbah was not actively part of the war. Alderaan (less so), Yavin, Hoth, Bespin (less so), and Endor. Though now we've expanded that count with Rogue One and Rebels.
I can imagine few hundred more lower tier Generals and Commanders having their own skirmishes and battles, at various other planets.
Started mid-FEB 2017, and not trying to reach the top.
Well this is a silly-**** argument. By this logic everything but the first movie was bloat and filler made to milk the cow. Not just every book and game, byt even Empire and Jedi.
Thise movies were made to explain what happens next (and, in the prequels, earlier) but weren't necessary.
Suggested look:
This is different from Lucas, the original artist, genuinely wanting to explain versus Disney wanting to milk.
Very well said DatBoi. All this high-brow, extremely subjective and supercilious "criticism" really rubs me the wrong way.
Yep, it's to make money. By entertaining, and developing the diagesis, the narrative of the overreaching story. In that respect it's no different to the layers and backgrounds created by Tolkien for Middle Earth, or by George R. R. Martin for Westeros (several hundred characters and counting). It creates depth, context and motivation for everything that occurs, and consequences for everything that happens. Otherwise you might as well be watching Road Runner. The production might be for a younger audience, but so was the original Harry Potter film. The last films were most certainly not, and the narrative had developed along with its audience, who had grown older with each passing movie. Why should Rebels be any different?
I would note that some refer to this series, and to Rogue One as padding. Or "bloat" to those who hate it. Yes, both are certainly "filling" since they occupy a gap in the narrative between the Fall of the Old Republic and The Battle of Yavin, so by their very nature yes they are a "filler". Just as Episode V fills the space between IV and VI. So what? Do you read just every other chapter when you open a book? Or do you expect your tales to be one-off events along a general narrative, as Robert E. Howard did with his Conan stories, from various points in his infamous career?
For my own part I consider this to be as strong a production as a great many Japanese animated series. Anime for the most part is not for kids, and yet I'd say that many themes in Rebels are equally developed, more grounded, and at times just as nihilistic. The only missing element so far is a sense of danger that comes from occasional losses. Although Ashoka and Sato are supporting characters of some prominence. This narrative is moving away from its original kiddy material and developing into something much more... weathered? Meh, can't find the word I want.
Anyway, haters, either give it a proper chance or just leave it be. Find something better to spend time on?
Hence the dumbness of the "filler" argument... well, yeah, obviously?