Chaze, a reasonable look at the most overtuned duo in game.

Replies

  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member

    Crying / Whining / Asking are all different. This is a discussion. Labeling something automatically as whining or crying is childish. Sorry but that has to be the worst possible defense. If you invest into something and it is overtuned, broken or overpowered, then it should be dealt with.

    There are better defense points for Chaze than this.

    Yet they aren't overturned,
    In your opinion.
    as it had been proven there's many combos that can defeat them.
    Just because something is beatable does not mean it is balanced. Remember LSD from S8 in WoW? Beatable. Hardly balanced.
    They aren't broken. You're attempting to push that theory.
    I, and others like me, are stating our opinions. That's what grownups do.
    If they announced tomorrow they were nerfing Chaze, because of say your complaint, without any recourse to the players, would you relish in the fact that thousands just got screwed of their investments?
    Read ---v
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    [quote="Lord_LeBobcat;

    This seems kind of relevant to me, with all due respect to the OP. For example, the team I fight for rank 1 is a Zaul squad with Savage, Nihilus and Chaze. I run First Order, which I know is not the best team, and I am able to take out Chaze everytime. However, quite frequently I am left with just Savage and he destroys me.

    Not saying he needs to be nerfed either, but if you're discussing toons that are "over-tuned", isn't it somewhat relevant to compare them to other characters that are difficult to beat? I mean, that's what what theoretically makes them OP; their relative strength compared to other top tier toons.

    It's so nice too see someone reply to a thread and be polite and respectful to the op instead of posting an insulting meme or comment.

    So I take it if a thief steals from me, it's OK as long as he's polite? Nerf in steals from gamers. And it's outrageous.
    Do you think it'll be fair (just for debate's sake) if a character can 1 shot all squad members and it'll be fine because you invest into it?

    Exaggerated example but the point stands.

  • tharduskafka
    474 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    [quote="Lord_LeBobcat;

    This seems kind of relevant to me, with all due respect to the OP. For example, the team I fight for rank 1 is a Zaul squad with Savage, Nihilus and Chaze. I run First Order, which I know is not the best team, and I am able to take out Chaze everytime. However, quite frequently I am left with just Savage and he destroys me.

    Not saying he needs to be nerfed either, but if you're discussing toons that are "over-tuned", isn't it somewhat relevant to compare them to other characters that are difficult to beat? I mean, that's what what theoretically makes them OP; their relative strength compared to other top tier toons.

    It's so nice too see someone reply to a thread and be polite and respectful to the op instead of posting an insulting meme or comment.

    So I take it if a thief steals from me, it's OK as long as he's polite? Nerf in steals from gamers. And it's outrageous.

    It is a bit funny he said that in reference to the comment on my post though.

    I think Chaze is fine, but I also support people's right to have a discussion about toons or other aspects of the game they feel are unbalanced. I give the devs enough credit to recognize when there is a legitimate problem with the game, vs toons that may be difficult for alot of folks, but are still beatable.

    Chaze, Dooku, Zylo and Zavage are all really powerful, but in my opinion they are not impossible to beat and I don't think people who have them have to worry that a post in the forum is going to get their favorite toon nerfed.

    It seems highly unlikely that the devs would make any drastic changes just based on threads, I think they'd need some statistics to back it up before they do anything. If they saw that GW nodes with Chaze were consistently unbeatable for example, or there was a squad in the arena that was impossible to dislodge from rank 1.
  • They aren't broken. You're attempting to push that theory.
    I, and others like me, are stating our opinions. That's what grownups do.

    LOL! Keep telling yourself that! You've made a number of non-grownup comments in this thread, too (yeah, I know I have).
    SnakesOnAPlane
  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    They aren't broken. You're attempting to push that theory.
    I, and others like me, are stating our opinions. That's what grownups do.

    LOL! Keep telling yourself that! You've made a number of non-grownup comments in this thread, too (yeah, I know I have).
    Okay.
  • Read ---v

    "Do you think it'll be fair (just for debate's sake) if a character can 1 shot all squad members and it'll be fine"

    If you're getting your entire squad 1-shotted by Chaze, this tells me you're not developed whatsoever in comparison to your leaderboard.

    SnakesOnAPlane
  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    Read ---v

    "Do you think it'll be fair (just for debate's sake) if a character can 1 shot all squad members and it'll be fine"

    If you're getting your entire squad 1-shotted by Chaze, this tells me you're not developed whatsoever in comparison to your leaderboard.
    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/analogy
  • Read ---v

    "Do you think it'll be fair (just for debate's sake) if a character can 1 shot all squad members and it'll be fine"

    If you're getting your entire squad 1-shotted by Chaze, this tells me you're not developed whatsoever in comparison to your leaderboard.

    Well a maxed chirrut does crit for 60k+... so under 60k hp is undeveloped... OK

    How to u get Palpatine or tfp or dooku or QGJ etc above 60k hp?
  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    Funny part is I literally meant a character hitting 1 button and 1 shotting the ENTIRE team. Such a character does not exist because it is an analogy
  • SnakesOnAPlane
    3857 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    OP, you have a bit of a history for complaining and asking for nerfs going back more than a half a year:

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/83217/wedge-biggs-lando-teams-are-way-too-overpowered
    It makes the game unfair and unbearable, plus an insult to cannon to elevate such minor characters (with the exception of Lando).

    Please tone them down. Its way overdue.

    By the way, my ally code is 166-274-764, in case you were wondering what I have contributed to the game.
    Jedi_Reach wrote: »
    Agreed.

    It is a disaster to this game's growth with such a broken combo. It isn't fun to play or play against. It's cheesy, lame and disgusting.

    SnakesOnAPlane
  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    OP, you have a bit of a history for asking" for nerfs going back more than a half a year:

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/83217/wedge-biggs-lando-teams-are-way-too-overpowered
    It makes the game unfair and unbearable, plus an insult to cannon to elevate such minor characters (with the exception of Lando).

    Please tone them down. Its way overdue.

    By the way, my ally code is 166-274-764, in case you were wondering what I have contributed to the game.
    Jedi_Reach wrote: »
    Agreed.

    It is a disaster to this game's growth with such a broken combo. It isn't fun to play or play against. It's cheesy, lame and disgusting.
    This neither detracts any of my points or disproves it. You're just pulling on straws now, which is a bit disappointing, considering you made at least one reasonable post.

    Well, back to this.

    Thanks for your contributions.
  • OP - my best advice is to just seek input on what beats them and don't fight for a nerf.

    1. Nerf won't happen - you're on a pointless quest
    2. There's NO BETTER feeling in one of these games than putting a team together that just curb stomps some "OP" build like Chaze. Take advice from others. Do some research - and go kill you some Chaze :)
  • OP, you have a bit of a history for complaining and asking for nerfs going back more than a half a year:

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/83217/wedge-biggs-lando-teams-are-way-too-overpowered
    It makes the game unfair and unbearable, plus an insult to cannon to elevate such minor characters (with the exception of Lando).

    Please tone them down. Its way overdue.

    By the way, my ally code is 166-274-764, in case you were wondering what I have contributed to the game.
    Jedi_Reach wrote: »
    Agreed.

    It is a disaster to this game's growth with such a broken combo. It isn't fun to play or play against. It's cheesy, lame and disgusting.

    Ah, the truth comes out.

    No matter how polite OP is, I won't back down. Nerfs are akin to theft. And theft by a polite thief takes the cake.
    what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
  • OP, you have a bit of a history for asking" for nerfs going back more than a half a year:

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/83217/wedge-biggs-lando-teams-are-way-too-overpowered
    It makes the game unfair and unbearable, plus an insult to cannon to elevate such minor characters (with the exception of Lando).

    Please tone them down. Its way overdue.

    By the way, my ally code is 166-274-764, in case you were wondering what I have contributed to the game.
    Jedi_Reach wrote: »
    Agreed.

    It is a disaster to this game's growth with such a broken combo. It isn't fun to play or play against. It's cheesy, lame and disgusting.
    This neither detracts any of my points or disproves it. You're just pulling on straws now, which is a bit disappointing, considering you made at least one reasonable post.

    Well, back to this.

    Thanks for your contributions.

    You're defending yourself, I get it. I only pointed out that you've done such in the past (more than once).

    Back to my previous post you haven't fully answered yet: You use Zaul/Siths, right? Many call them overpowered and out of balanced. Do you not see them that way? Are you just not balanced in relation to your leaderboard?

    SnakesOnAPlane
  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    OP - my best advice is to just seek input on what beats them and don't fight for a nerf.
    I already have a team to beat them, daily. Still overtuned.
    1. Nerf won't happen - you're on a pointless quest
    Disagree, but sure.
    2. There's NO BETTER feeling in one of these games than putting a team together that just curb stomps some "OP" build like Chaze. Take advice from others. Do some research - and go kill you some Chaze :)
    Already have a team that does that.

    I'll requote this post since my opposing posters seem to purposely refuse to engage it.
    Do you think it'll be fair (just for debate's sake) if a character can 1 shot all squad members and it'll be fine because you invest into it?

    Exaggerated example but the point stands.
  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    You're defending yourself, I get it.
    Actually, I'm not. They're overtuned, I think they need balance.
    I only pointed out that you've done such in the past (more than once).
    You really think people are that dense? You're trying to get me on the defense because you cannot engage in a logical discussion. There were several posts and counter arguments you purposely refused to engage. ;)

    Still waiting on the counter post for my LSD / S8 argument.

    Take your time.
    Back to my previous post you haven't fully answered yet: You use Zaul/Siths, right? Many call them overpowered and out of balanced. Do you not see them that way? Are you just not balanced in relation to your leaderboard?
    This is misdirection, but I'll bite. Zaul is hard countered by Rex and R2 is a new addition to help balance its power.

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/108090/down-goes-maul-down-goes-maul-down-goes-maul/p1

    Again, you're trying to get me on the defensive - a common tactic when someone runs out of logical counters.

    It won't work.

  • You're defending yourself, I get it.
    Actually, I'm not. They're overtuned, I think they need balance.
    I only pointed out that you've done such in the past (more than once).
    You really think people are that dense? You're trying to get me on the defense because you cannot engage in a logical discussion. There were several posts and counter arguments you purposely refused to engage. ;)

    Still waiting on the counter post for my LSD / S8 argument.

    Take your time.
    Back to my previous post you haven't fully answered yet: You use Zaul/Siths, right? Many call them overpowered and out of balanced. Do you not see them that way? Are you just not balanced in relation to your leaderboard?
    This is misdirection, but I'll bite. Zaul is hard countered by Rex and R2 is a new addition to help balance its power.

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/108090/down-goes-maul-down-goes-maul-down-goes-maul/p1

    Again, you're trying to get me on the defensive - a common tactic when someone runs out of logical counters.

    It won't work.

    Cooked snake for dinner anyone?
  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    You're defending yourself, I get it.
    Actually, I'm not. They're overtuned, I think they need balance.
    I only pointed out that you've done such in the past (more than once).
    You really think people are that dense? You're trying to get me on the defense because you cannot engage in a logical discussion. There were several posts and counter arguments you purposely refused to engage. ;)

    Still waiting on the counter post for my LSD / S8 argument.

    Take your time.
    Back to my previous post you haven't fully answered yet: You use Zaul/Siths, right? Many call them overpowered and out of balanced. Do you not see them that way? Are you just not balanced in relation to your leaderboard?
    This is misdirection, but I'll bite. Zaul is hard countered by Rex and R2 is a new addition to help balance its power.

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/108090/down-goes-maul-down-goes-maul-down-goes-maul/p1

    Again, you're trying to get me on the defensive - a common tactic when someone runs out of logical counters.

    It won't work.

    Cooked snake for dinner anyone?
    Roasted and served with side chips and a coke. 525 crystal cost.
  • BrtStlnd
    1094 posts Member
    I've gotta agree with the OP and I know there are many others that do as well.

    Yes, I beat chaze teams every single day. I know how to beat them. They still share far and away the most powerful synergy in the game and the next duo isn't even in the same ballpark. They're a formidable 5 man team all by themselves. Does this make them overtuned? I think so, others will disagree.

    Before anyone attacks me for my roster, look here first:

    https://swgoh.gg/u/wu tang financial /
  • Gamorrean
    2297 posts Member
    How about we turn this around and say: Which non-chaze teams can hold against a maxed out Chaze on defence? Yea, defence is not the same, but still... Who??

    Chaze was a bad move for the game, and I have them and battle them myself. OP or beatable? I don't care, they are a must have to finish high without much effort..(Sure whales and snakes defend them so much lol)

    No one would switch out full maxed Chaze even if the opponent have those so called counter toons... Can someone tell me why? It makes sense to me.
  • SnakesOnAPlane
    3857 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    You're defending yourself, I get it.
    Actually, I'm not. They're overtuned, I think they need balance.
    I only pointed out that you've done such in the past (more than once).
    You really think people are that dense? You're trying to get me on the defense because you cannot engage in a logical discussion. There were several posts and counter arguments you purposely refused to engage. ;)

    Still waiting on the counter post for my LSD / S8 argument.

    Take your time.
    Back to my previous post you haven't fully answered yet: You use Zaul/Siths, right? Many call them overpowered and out of balanced. Do you not see them that way? Are you just not balanced in relation to your leaderboard?
    This is misdirection, but I'll bite. Zaul is hard countered by Rex and R2 is a new addition to help balance its power.

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/108090/down-goes-maul-down-goes-maul-down-goes-maul/p1

    Again, you're trying to get me on the defensive - a common tactic when someone runs out of logical counters.

    It won't work.

    Cooked snake for dinner anyone?

    LOL?! Hello Kitty, how many times have you been warned (admittedly from yourself earlier), for comments to me on the forums (I didn't even know about those, which makes it all the more interesting)? You ask for me to be banned on this thread because you're still bitter for your own self-actuated prior actions. You just can't seem to keep your hands off me. Odd.
    You're defending yourself, I get it.
    Actually, I'm not. They're overtuned, I think they need balance.
    I only pointed out that you've done such in the past (more than once).
    You really think people are that dense? You're trying to get me on the defense because you cannot engage in a logical discussion. There were several posts and counter arguments you purposely refused to engage. ;)

    Still waiting on the counter post for my LSD / S8 argument.

    Take your time.
    Back to my previous post you haven't fully answered yet: You use Zaul/Siths, right? Many call them overpowered and out of balanced. Do you not see them that way? Are you just not balanced in relation to your leaderboard?
    This is misdirection, but I'll bite. Zaul is hard countered by Rex and R2 is a new addition to help balance its power.

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/108090/down-goes-maul-down-goes-maul-down-goes-maul/p1

    Again, you're trying to get me on the defensive - a common tactic when someone runs out of logical counters.

    It won't work.

    Cooked snake for dinner anyone?
    Roasted and served with side chips and a coke. 525 crystal cost.

    I'm not trying to get you on the defensive; you yourself are doing that quite well. Reality is, you do have a history of calling for nerfs. And you present no proof of why toons need to be nerfed, other than they give you hell when you fight against them. Youve relegated yourself to be a complainer and blamer for your inability to compete with those who have improved while you've stalled (for many months on end). Step up your game!
    SnakesOnAPlane
  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    Notice he still refuses to engage in a logical debate and still resorts to defaming, shaming etc.
    I'm not trying to get you on the defensive; you yourself are doing that quite well. Reality is, you do have a history of calling for nerfs. And you present no proof of why toons need to be nerfed, other than they give you hell when you fight against them. Youve relegated yourself to be a complainer and blamer for your inability to compete with those who have improved while you've stalled (for many months on end). Step up your game!
    Okay.


  • Wholf
    464 posts Member
    They are op because the fundamental key of balance is 'jack of trades, master of none. Master of a trade - easy to counter.'

    They don't obey the rules and are masters of all. They tank, they heal, they buff they rebuff they deal huge damage and so on and so fourth.
  • RJ__Brando
    1487 posts Moderator
    Please keep this thread on topic.
  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    Wholf wrote: »
    They are op because the fundamental key of balance is 'jack of trades, master of none. Master of a trade - easy to counter.'

    They don't obey the rules and are masters of all. They tank, they heal, they buff they rebuff they deal huge damage and so on and so fourth.
    +1, added to OP.
    RJ__Brando wrote: »
    Please keep this thread on topic.
    Will do.
  • Ig88isboss
    1752 posts Member
    Wholf wrote: »
    They are op because the fundamental key of balance is 'jack of trades, master of none. Master of a trade - easy to counter.'

    They don't obey the rules and are masters of all. They tank, they heal, they buff they rebuff they deal huge damage and so on and so fourth.

    This is a pretty good point.
  • RJ__Brando
    1487 posts Moderator
    Buff immunity and heal immunity pair with an aoe cleanse is usually needed to easily take down a good chaze lineup.
  • SnakesOnAPlane
    3857 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    Wholf wrote: »
    They are op because the fundamental key of balance is 'jack of trades, master of none. Master of a trade - easy to counter.'

    They don't obey the rules and are masters of all. They tank, they heal, they buff they rebuff they deal huge damage and so on and so fourth.

    Definitely a thought provoking point.
    RJ__Brando wrote: »
    Please keep this thread on topic.

    Thank you, and understandable.

    To the OP (Jedi_Reach_), Mr. Cat, et al, I apologize for the saltiness today. OP, you deserve the right to voice your complaints (I don't mean that negatively), as we all do. If I am not with you on your arguments, it doesn't mean I am personally against you.

    Mr. Cat, feel free to PM me if you have concerns we need to work out for the past issues you've raised here. Like I said, I wasn't aware of what you brought up earlier.
    SnakesOnAPlane
  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    Wholf wrote: »
    They are op because the fundamental key of balance is 'jack of trades, master of none. Master of a trade - easy to counter.'

    They don't obey the rules and are masters of all. They tank, they heal, they buff they rebuff they deal huge damage and so on and so fourth.

    Definitely a thought provoking point.
    RJ__Brando wrote: »
    Please keep this thread on topic.

    Thank you, and understandable.

    To the OP (Jedi_Reach_), Mr. Cat, et al, I apologize for the saltiness today. OP, you deserve the right to voice your complaints (I don't mean that negatively), as we all do. If I am not with you on your arguments, it doesn't mean I am personally against you.

    Mr. Cat, feel free to PM me if you have concerns we need to work out for the past issues you've raised here. Like I said, I wasn't aware of what you brought up earlier.
    Thanks, this is a reasonable post and I respect it.
  • OP - my best advice is to just seek input on what beats them and don't fight for a nerf.
    I already have a team to beat them, daily. Still overtuned.
    1. Nerf won't happen - you're on a pointless quest
    Disagree, but sure.
    2. There's NO BETTER feeling in one of these games than putting a team together that just curb stomps some "OP" build like Chaze. Take advice from others. Do some research - and go kill you some Chaze :)
    Already have a team that does that.

    I'll requote this post since my opposing posters seem to purposely refuse to engage it.
    Do you think it'll be fair (just for debate's sake) if a character can 1 shot all squad members and it'll be fine because you invest into it?

    Exaggerated example but the point stands.

    By admitting these things...you're blowing up your own argument that they need nerfed. What does overtuned mean exactly? SOMETHING has to be the best in the game - you can't nerf everything to have the same stats of 1. They aren't some ridiculous outlier that is unbeatable - why nerf something just because it's the best?

    You've done a good job showing they are very strong - we all agree. Yet you also state they are beatable and you do so daily. How is your own squad not in need of a nerf and overtuned if they can whip Chaze daily?

    You still have not articulated why they need a nerf - do you have some statistical evidence that shows they are such an extreme outlier that they warrant being nerfed? Being the best comp and really good does not on its own justify taking them down.
  • Still waiting on the counter post for my LSD / S8 argument.

    Take your time.

    Help me out here, if you don't mind. I don't recall seeing that (overlooked, no doubt).

    SnakesOnAPlane
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