Lmao soooooooo they have time to “fix” a game mechanic that’s WAI, but they can’t address the new TW bug, the awful payouts of the Sith raid, and the challenge gear that is STILL in the raids including the “endgame” Sith raid.
Maybe they should stop making things harder until after they make the rewards actually worthwhile, because I tell yah, the rewards are plain awful as is.
CG has backed themselves into a corner here. I just did over 100 million in P3 on auto with Zeta Ventress and StHan. That’s obviously not what was intended. They tried to design this raid so solos aren’t possible. They failed. I completely get wanting to get rid of this.
On the other hand this isn’t a bug or an exploit. It’s no different than finding TM reduction loops in the Pit and in HAAT or other mechanisms that allowed those to be completed solo. So why would people think twice about jumping on this and giving Ventress a zeta or otherwise developing these characters. And now what happens when they change the mechanics? How can you make that right for them? Or is CG just going to give them a big middle finger and say sorry, we don’t care about you, we have to do this for what we believe is the good of our raid.
CG has backed themselves into a corner here. I just did over 100 million in P3 on auto with Zeta Ventress and StHan. That’s obviously not what was intended. They tried to design this raid so solos aren’t possible. They failed. I completely get wanting to get rid of this.
On the other hand this isn’t a bug or an exploit. It’s no different than finding TM reduction loops in the Pit and in HAAT or other mechanisms that allowed those to be completed solo. So why would people think twice about jumping on this and giving Ventress a zeta or otherwise developing these characters. And now what happens when they change the mechanics? How can you make that right for them? Or is CG just going to give them a big middle finger and say sorry, we don’t care about you, we have to do this for what we believe is the good of our raid.
Honestly all they have to do is change Bonds of Weakness into loss of proctection/HP, then clarify that loss of life does not classify as damage.
CG has backed themselves into a corner here. I just did over 100 million in P3 on auto with Zeta Ventress and StHan. That’s obviously not what was intended. They tried to design this raid so solos aren’t possible. They failed. I completely get wanting to get rid of this.
On the other hand this isn’t a bug or an exploit. It’s no different than finding TM reduction loops in the Pit and in HAAT or other mechanisms that allowed those to be completed solo. So why would people think twice about jumping on this and giving Ventress a zeta or otherwise developing these characters. And now what happens when they change the mechanics? How can you make that right for them? Or is CG just going to give them a big middle finger and say sorry, we don’t care about you, we have to do this for what we believe is the good of our raid.
Honestly all they have to do is change Bonds of Weakness into loss of proctection/HP, then clarify that loss of life does not classify as damage.
There are several easy fixes. But my point is it will wipe out a strategy that people have invested resources into (and are continuing to invest resources into, because not everyone reads the forum announcements). I’ve seen people put a zeta on Ventress just for this, and they are going to be **** about that zeta not working for what they want it to now.
CG is screwed no matter what they do now because they didn’t properly test this.
CG has backed themselves into a corner here. I just did over 100 million in P3 on auto with Zeta Ventress and StHan. That’s obviously not what was intended. They tried to design this raid so solos aren’t possible. They failed. I completely get wanting to get rid of this.
On the other hand this isn’t a bug or an exploit. It’s no different than finding TM reduction loops in the Pit and in HAAT or other mechanisms that allowed those to be completed solo. So why would people think twice about jumping on this and giving Ventress a zeta or otherwise developing these characters. And now what happens when they change the mechanics? How can you make that right for them? Or is CG just going to give them a big middle finger and say sorry, we don’t care about you, we have to do this for what we believe is the good of our raid.
Honestly all they have to do is change Bonds of Weakness into loss of proctection/HP, then clarify that loss of life does not classify as damage.
There are several easy fixes. But my point is it will wipe out a strategy that people have invested resources into (and are continuing to invest resources into, because not everyone reads the forum announcements). I’ve seen people put a zeta on Ventress just for this, and they are going to be **** about that zeta not working for what they want it to now.
CG is screwed no matter what they do now because they didn’t properly test this.
Well, at least it wasnt a Chewie zeta. Just saying.
Plus, The idea that a non zeta toon can do upwards of 100m with zentress is kinda insulting to teams like zzKRU, zRJT, who requires many more zetas and stuff. I m actually very on CG s side on this.
On a side note, how were you not expecting the unexpected for a major update. My guild agreed not to do anything purely for sith raid for 2 weeks for accurate analysis and strategies.
As for it being a nerf, i accept that claim, but would like to add that this is balance. V. important balance.
I fully agree that such a score should not be possible and that this mechanic, despite not being a bug should be fixed.
But like a lot communication is an issue here.
What about a commitment for adjusting rewards? That is also part of the raid... why not finally remove unused challenge gear and bring some balance into the reward crates? This would motivated people more to find ways to overcome the current grind of the new raid. Before using terms like “ongoing commitment to refining the raid” why not show that you mean it on all aspects? That is the real annoying thing here.
honestly, how can they not patch this?
Not sure why people are up in arms over this, it's clearly not intended to work like this. Sure, it's their fault for designing a raid where in this was possible, but does that mean they shouldn't patch it?
And please miss me with that JTR comparrison, it's not even close to the same thing and everyone knows it.
A st han team is un-effected by enrage, that sure as sith shouldn't happen no matter how you slice it. Hope this helps some of you to come to terms with why this patch is necessary, it's not just about the dmg.
I'm however sure for alot of you guys it is just about the dmg and the fact that st han is easy to get where as JTR isn't. So please don't act holier than the pope.
This is garbage. Sthan WAI. Poor raid design by CG. They wanted to make the raid even harder through Traya’s ability and it backfired. It’s not as though it allows full solos, P1 and P2 are certainly no joke.
There are hundreds of thousands of active players, CG should expect innovation to come quickly. If what they want by “innovation” is use of toons that cannot be farmed without crystals and $$$, then just be honest with your player base. Be candid, and don’t change the rules after the game starts.
This is the kind of stuff that can make players pick up their toys and go home.
This is garbage. Sthan WAI. Poor raid design by CG. They wanted to make the raid even harder through Traya’s ability and it backfired. It’s not as though it allows full solos, P1 and P2 are certainly no joke.
There are hundreds of thousands of active players, CG should expect innovation to come quickly. If what they want by “innovation” is use of toons that cannot be farmed without crystals and $$$, then just be honest with your player base. Be candid, and don’t change the rules after the game starts.
This is the kind of stuff that can make players pick up their toys and go home.
Plenty of games change the rules after the game starts if the rules are found to have loopholes that benefit a character/organisation.
The change was bound to happen.
It was disappointing they didn't fully understand their own game mechanics before releasing the raid, and ironic that they character in question is actually this month's daily login character, I mean, it was literally staring them in the face. How embarrassing.
But it is what it is, anyone arguing against them making a change is being a tad unrealistic, I fear. What concerns me most now is how they change it. I think it's important that ST Han offers some sort of viability. They shouldn't change him. But it's hard to conceive how they'd change Treya without breaking a zeta or causing her to become significantly more powerful... I hope they get their thinking caps on! If ST Han can become a part of a team that can do something north of 2m damage in the Treya's phases of the Heroic level due to his mechanics after the change, I'll be content with that.
Going past enrage is the most logical argument I've heard for 'fixing' this. And there's certainly precident for that.
Im not arguing they shouldn’t fix it, but this shouldn’t be the reason. NS in HAAT have no problem going well past enrage. Daka and Ventress stack so much health that they can survive several hits past enrage, and under Talzin lead both can easily continue the revive cycle, which removes the healing immunity.
But the devs didn’t care one bit about that because it only works if you have a 7* Talzin, a P2P character. Which is why people get ticked about this stuff. If the “exploits” make them money then they never get fixed.
Going past enrage is the most logical argument I've heard for 'fixing' this. And there's certainly precident for that.
Im not arguing they shouldn’t fix it, but this shouldn’t be the reason. NS in HAAT have no problem going well past enrage. Daka and Ventress stack so much health that they can survive several hits past enrage, and under Talzin lead both can easily continue the revive cycle, which removes the healing immunity.
But the devs didn’t care one bit about that because it only works if you have a 7* Talzin, a P2P character. Which is why people get ticked about this stuff. If the “exploits” make them money then they never get fixed.
Several hits =/= 15min on full auto up to a point where the lag gets so bad your phone crashes.
In the legendary words of sinead o'connor; "Nothing compares, nothing compares... to st hannnnnnnn"
This should be fixed. Solo the raid phase is just against gaming. It kills competition and fun. Also I think that JTR should be fixed. This team is also broken. 50 teams of JTR in the guild can finish this new raid. So what this raid is? Designed for one squad?
Going past enrage is the most logical argument I've heard for 'fixing' this. And there's certainly precident for that.
Im not arguing they shouldn’t fix it, but this shouldn’t be the reason. NS in HAAT have no problem going well past enrage. Daka and Ventress stack so much health that they can survive several hits past enrage, and under Talzin lead both can easily continue the revive cycle, which removes the healing immunity.
But the devs didn’t care one bit about that because it only works if you have a 7* Talzin, a P2P character. Which is why people get ticked about this stuff. If the “exploits” make them money then they never get fixed.
Several hits =/= 15min on full auto up to a point where the lag gets so bad your phone crashes.
In the legendary words of sinead o'connor; "Nothing compares, nothing compares... to st hannnnnnnn"
Well, it’s only several hits because by then the phase is finished. Ventress is doing several hundred thousand damage per hit at that point, so it’s over quickly. Does requiring it to be manual vs auto make a difference? I don’t see why. StHan actually takes hours, not minutes, to complete on auto. The Ventress/Talzin “exploit” in tank is much easier as it is very quick.
Again, my point isn’t that it shouldn’t be fixed. My point is that CG dropped the ball here and now is in a no win situation, and that the speed at which they address something like this (or don’t address it at all) is directly linked to how it impacts their finances. You know if Teebo was a P2P character his stealth bug would have been fixed within 2 weeks.
This should be fixed. Solo the raid phase is just against gaming. It kills competition and fun. Also I think that JTR should be fixed. This team is also broken. 50 teams of JTR in the guild can finish this new raid. So what this raid is? Designed for one squad?
That's part of the issue though. They likely won't touch JTR because the earning potential there is waaaayyyy higher than ordinary ole StHan.
If they nerf this, why not nerf Chirpatine and Nightsisters in Haat? The logic is flawed. It's about profits. Which makes sense for a business, but not when you ruin a perfectly sound mechanic to protect a short-term gain.
Going past enrage is the most logical argument I've heard for 'fixing' this. And there's certainly precident for that.
Im not arguing they shouldn’t fix it, but this shouldn’t be the reason. NS in HAAT have no problem going well past enrage. Daka and Ventress stack so much health that they can survive several hits past enrage, and under Talzin lead both can easily continue the revive cycle, which removes the healing immunity.
But the devs didn’t care one bit about that because it only works if you have a 7* Talzin, a P2P character. Which is why people get ticked about this stuff. If the “exploits” make them money then they never get fixed.
Several hits =/= 15min on full auto up to a point where the lag gets so bad your phone crashes.
In the legendary words of sinead o'connor; "Nothing compares, nothing compares... to st hannnnnnnn"
Well, it’s only several hits because by then the phase is finished. Ventress is doing several hundred thousand damage per hit at that point, so it’s over quickly. Does requiring it to be manual vs auto make a difference? I don’t see why. StHan actually takes hours, not minutes, to complete on auto. The Ventress/Talzin “exploit” in tank is much easier as it is very quick.
Again, my point isn’t that it shouldn’t be fixed. My point is that CG dropped the ball here and now is in a no win situation, and that the speed at which they address something like this (or don’t address it at all) is directly linked to how it impacts their finances. You know if Teebo was a P2P character his stealth bug would have been fixed within 2 weeks.
I'm reasonably sure if the same thing happened to a p2w character instead of to st han it would also be adressed as quickly as it is now.
I for one am glad they're adressing it. I don't know why everyone has to compare it to different situations and make it about p2p vs f2p. What the fudge has this fix got to do with teebo? If anything, teebo would have broken the rancor if he got fixed, wich might even have been the reason they didn't fix him.
Replies
Maybe they should stop making things harder until after they make the rewards actually worthwhile, because I tell yah, the rewards are plain awful as is.
On the other hand this isn’t a bug or an exploit. It’s no different than finding TM reduction loops in the Pit and in HAAT or other mechanisms that allowed those to be completed solo. So why would people think twice about jumping on this and giving Ventress a zeta or otherwise developing these characters. And now what happens when they change the mechanics? How can you make that right for them? Or is CG just going to give them a big middle finger and say sorry, we don’t care about you, we have to do this for what we believe is the good of our raid.
Honestly all they have to do is change Bonds of Weakness into loss of proctection/HP, then clarify that loss of life does not classify as damage.
There are several easy fixes. But my point is it will wipe out a strategy that people have invested resources into (and are continuing to invest resources into, because not everyone reads the forum announcements). I’ve seen people put a zeta on Ventress just for this, and they are going to be **** about that zeta not working for what they want it to now.
CG is screwed no matter what they do now because they didn’t properly test this.
Well, at least it wasnt a Chewie zeta. Just saying.
Plus, The idea that a non zeta toon can do upwards of 100m with zentress is kinda insulting to teams like zzKRU, zRJT, who requires many more zetas and stuff. I m actually very on CG s side on this.
On a side note, how were you not expecting the unexpected for a major update. My guild agreed not to do anything purely for sith raid for 2 weeks for accurate analysis and strategies.
As for it being a nerf, i accept that claim, but would like to add that this is balance. V. important balance.
But like a lot communication is an issue here.
What about a commitment for adjusting rewards? That is also part of the raid... why not finally remove unused challenge gear and bring some balance into the reward crates? This would motivated people more to find ways to overcome the current grind of the new raid. Before using terms like “ongoing commitment to refining the raid” why not show that you mean it on all aspects? That is the real annoying thing here.
Not sure why people are up in arms over this, it's clearly not intended to work like this. Sure, it's their fault for designing a raid where in this was possible, but does that mean they shouldn't patch it?
And please miss me with that JTR comparrison, it's not even close to the same thing and everyone knows it.
A st han team is un-effected by enrage, that sure as sith shouldn't happen no matter how you slice it. Hope this helps some of you to come to terms with why this patch is necessary, it's not just about the dmg.
I'm however sure for alot of you guys it is just about the dmg and the fact that st han is easy to get where as JTR isn't. So please don't act holier than the pope.
There are hundreds of thousands of active players, CG should expect innovation to come quickly. If what they want by “innovation” is use of toons that cannot be farmed without crystals and $$$, then just be honest with your player base. Be candid, and don’t change the rules after the game starts.
This is the kind of stuff that can make players pick up their toys and go home.
Plenty of games change the rules after the game starts if the rules are found to have loopholes that benefit a character/organisation.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Nutinii the Wise?
For those who dont know, Nut Gunray plus 2 jawas could solo entire HAAT phase 2 before.
It was disappointing they didn't fully understand their own game mechanics before releasing the raid, and ironic that they character in question is actually this month's daily login character, I mean, it was literally staring them in the face. How embarrassing.
But it is what it is, anyone arguing against them making a change is being a tad unrealistic, I fear. What concerns me most now is how they change it. I think it's important that ST Han offers some sort of viability. They shouldn't change him. But it's hard to conceive how they'd change Treya without breaking a zeta or causing her to become significantly more powerful... I hope they get their thinking caps on! If ST Han can become a part of a team that can do something north of 2m damage in the Treya's phases of the Heroic level due to his mechanics after the change, I'll be content with that.
Im not arguing they shouldn’t fix it, but this shouldn’t be the reason. NS in HAAT have no problem going well past enrage. Daka and Ventress stack so much health that they can survive several hits past enrage, and under Talzin lead both can easily continue the revive cycle, which removes the healing immunity.
But the devs didn’t care one bit about that because it only works if you have a 7* Talzin, a P2P character. Which is why people get ticked about this stuff. If the “exploits” make them money then they never get fixed.
Several hits =/= 15min on full auto up to a point where the lag gets so bad your phone crashes.
In the legendary words of sinead o'connor; "Nothing compares, nothing compares... to st hannnnnnnn"
yes. upwards of 100m
Well, it’s only several hits because by then the phase is finished. Ventress is doing several hundred thousand damage per hit at that point, so it’s over quickly. Does requiring it to be manual vs auto make a difference? I don’t see why. StHan actually takes hours, not minutes, to complete on auto. The Ventress/Talzin “exploit” in tank is much easier as it is very quick.
Again, my point isn’t that it shouldn’t be fixed. My point is that CG dropped the ball here and now is in a no win situation, and that the speed at which they address something like this (or don’t address it at all) is directly linked to how it impacts their finances. You know if Teebo was a P2P character his stealth bug would have been fixed within 2 weeks.
That's part of the issue though. They likely won't touch JTR because the earning potential there is waaaayyyy higher than ordinary ole StHan.
If they nerf this, why not nerf Chirpatine and Nightsisters in Haat? The logic is flawed. It's about profits. Which makes sense for a business, but not when you ruin a perfectly sound mechanic to protect a short-term gain.
I'm reasonably sure if the same thing happened to a p2w character instead of to st han it would also be adressed as quickly as it is now.
I for one am glad they're adressing it. I don't know why everyone has to compare it to different situations and make it about p2p vs f2p. What the fudge has this fix got to do with teebo? If anything, teebo would have broken the rancor if he got fixed, wich might even have been the reason they didn't fix him.
This just about sums up why they broke sthan, which he was working just fine. It wasn’t a glitch nor was it a broken element of the game.
What wonderful people, taking away something good because it will get them less money.
Get used to it. They have previous form for super quick nerfs and will do in future.