Yes!!! Don't stop with StHan either! Nerf everyone!
Nerf Han
Nerf JTR
Nerf Death Trooper
Nerf anyone who can actually be strategized to do any damage!
Raids aren't about strategy anyways! None of this game is! Remove any thinking and just make it pure damage output! That way I can finally run my CUP alongside my Palpatine and they will both do equal amounts of damage!
One way to handle this would be another Enrage modification, such as disabling tm gain when the boss is enraged. That would solve the issue of going past Enrage, which many people here claim to be their main concern (or is it just that they don't want competition for their JTR?) while leaving most things intact. Somehow, I don't think the devs will settle for this...
That is exactly how they fixed the zSavage issue in HAAT and why we have heal immunity after enrage. The only problem was that it made Sav completely useless for the raid after the fix..... but this is the most likely outcome. I get the business/income argument as Id do the same in their shoes, but I would target the raid so that it encouraged 5 to 10 ppl in an average guild to spend the money for the high damage toons while making sure the other toons in the deck did real damage and adjust raid health accordingly. That is how you ballance profit vs. customer satisfaction.
Maybe they could just add in a fix that gives Traya 100% turn meter after 50 attacks or so, that way you could do decent damage without breaking the raid or Nerfing StHan?
Maybe they could just add in a fix that gives Traya 100% turn meter after 50 attacks or so, that way you could do decent damage without breaking the raid or Nerfing StHan?
I find it amusing that many of the same people complaining about closing an unintended loophole here are the same people who berated CG for not closing the Chimaera loophole fast enough.
I find it amusing that many of the same people complaining about closing an unintended loophole here are the same people who berated CG for not closing the Chimaera loophole fast enough.
One was a bug, one is a dev oversight
Chimaera without farming gave players an unfair advantage
Some guilds getting to use st han pre nerf and some not is an unfair advantage
That’s a straw mans argument. Why does it matter when they broke the raid? Anytime we bring up relacing older content like the Rancor Raid it’s brought up how for new players it is fresh content that is important to them.
The model is straightforward. They introduce new content that is extremely difficult based on current characters. They introduce new characters/concepts that make the raid easy and then rake in the money charging for them. This Han strategy undermines their ability to make money so it’s a problem.
Again, let me remind you that CLS can solo the Pit raid on auto by himself. But that’s not considered broken by the devs and doesn’t need fixed.
You do realize you anwsered your own questions right?
The model is indeed straightforward, you did however forget to mention that it's more fun that way and not just about the money. St han undermines both.
So why are you arguing with me. My point al song has been criticizing this model. You can have fun with it, great. I’d much prefer to work on the characters I want, instead of chasing P2P characters to avoid falling behind in the arena meta.
Right. Well, you just left me wondering if you're really that oblivious to one of the aspects that makes this game fun to play for months on end or if you're playing the wrong kinda game.
One of the aspects that makes this game fun? There’s a lot I like about this game. I’d venture 95%+ don’t think that is one of them.
Raise your hand if you enjoy theory crafting to find good raid teams, spending 3 months starring and gearing them up, and then having them become useless because a new premium character breaks the raid.
I hate that the first 2 raids became a joke. If I felt this one wouldn’t as well I would support a nerf. But you and I both know that at some point they are going to intentionally break this raid with a character and charge us heavy resources for it. It’s old an tiresome, and not fun at all.
So many of the arguments I see for nerfing it are that it can be solo'd in p3. How many of you have tried heroic?
It isnt easy even if you have the right characters. If this nerf goes into effect I'm not sure heroic will even be beatable atm short of being a kraken in a kraken guild. I'm in a 145mil gp guild and we couldn't finish on our first try because not everyone has jtr, visas and marauder.
This raid is right now intended as a pay to win event and people found a way around that. This nerf would be punishing the player base for being smart.
No one character should be able to solo phases in a relatively new raid so that sort of "nerf" is understandable. This isn't the case, Han just makes the team run.
Nute cheese team being "nerfed" was a fix. Tm was only supposed to be gained once per turn but it was being gained multiple times. Han is doing exactly what he's supposed to do.
The real issue is not that they fix this mechanism. While it sounds unfair, it makes sense that such a mechanism doesn’t work at a new raid.
The real issue is how this compares to other (re)action times from CG on other issues. There is an ongoing feeling that every-time something that benefits the players gets fixed asap, while something that could benefits the players gets delayed or ignored.
Some recent examples:
Starwars.com announced a promotion last December. It took them several days into the promotion to work on the wording and announce it (which remained confusing even after that) and they blatantly stated that a data pack sold 10 weeks earlier was part of the promotion and included already the promised extra credits (despite that the credits where necessary to fulfill the packs promises initially). Hardly a promotion, and all the other games on starwars.com fulfilled the advertisement to show that other companies can do it better
They announced a vault promotion over Christmas. It got edited after a few days into to the hoidays to a smaller crystal promotion with the "excuse" typo. It took another 4 weeks, before it was stated that the reduced offer (which hardly qualifies as a promotion at all) was the original plan and nothing will happen, and on the same time praise their improved communication (while the answer was hidden deep into thread).
New modes like Dark Side Territory Battle get rolled out heavily bugged (platoon deployment bug, wrong calculation of points per wave), but this can never be corrected because it is during a TB. On the same time the heavily criticized implementation of platoons is made into a moving target that can never be achieved, ignoring any feedback. To add further oil into the fire, phrases like "The Wampa has joined the ranks of the Imperial Retaliation platoons! Muster your forces and bring your Wampa to battle in order to destroy the Rebels and remove their blight from the galaxy." or "Recruit Players to your Guild that have these Characters in their roster, or you can acquire them on your own." show a strange way of communication and customer interaction. At this point you need to be happy if Traya doesn’t show up in the next tb.
Ignoring year-long feedback about challenge gear (and other unused gear) in raid rewards and events and making a new raid who does the same again - gears that you get for free anyway hardly qualify as a reward. But why change something that could benefit the player? Wouldn't it be time to show a commitment on refinement for awards? But no, that would actually benefit players....
It is that disparity between their actions that make a lot of people including me upset. Something that benefits a player gets fixed immediately, something that hurts additionally is ignored or stating WAI. From that point of view, despite that there is more communication in number of words in the forums, the interaction is actually worse.
I find it amusing that many of the same people complaining about closing an unintended loophole here are the same people who berated CG for not closing the Chimaera loophole fast enough.
One was a bug, one is a dev oversight
Chimaera without farming gave players an unfair advantage
Some guilds getting to use st han pre nerf and some not is an unfair advantage
Lame Straw man, false equivalency
I don't think it's a false equivalency. The mechanics are the same. An oversight by CG resulted in unintended consequences that benefited some but not others.
I will agree it is a difference of scale though. One is obviously more balance-altering than the other.
Honestly, I think there is a way that the devs can make it so STH can still be viable in the raid while also preventing these teams from getting 40-100 million damage.
All they’d have to do is limit the number of stacks of bonds of weakness Traya can have. Once she reaches that number, it doesn’t deal damage, which would stop Han’s unique, ending the Tm manipulation loop and leaving all 5 characters able to be defeated with a single attack. That would leave STH viable in the raid, and people who invested in the team wouldnt have wasted resources, but instead of doing absurd damage, maybe it does 5 or 6 million.
I think that’s a fair compromise really... so it probably won’t happen like that.
StHan was nerfed but dev please look closely to his taunt on last phase when only Traya left. His taunt and TM gain still works. Playing with NS + StHan can solo full phase.
Please look at this before someone gets banned for this
That’s a straw mans argument. Why does it matter when they broke the raid? Anytime we bring up relacing older content like the Rancor Raid it’s brought up how for new players it is fresh content that is important to them.
The model is straightforward. They introduce new content that is extremely difficult based on current characters. They introduce new characters/concepts that make the raid easy and then rake in the money charging for them. This Han strategy undermines their ability to make money so it’s a problem.
Again, let me remind you that CLS can solo the Pit raid on auto by himself. But that’s not considered broken by the devs and doesn’t need fixed.
You do realize you anwsered your own questions right?
The model is indeed straightforward, you did however forget to mention that it's more fun that way and not just about the money. St han undermines both.
So why are you arguing with me. My point al song has been criticizing this model. You can have fun with it, great. I’d much prefer to work on the characters I want, instead of chasing P2P characters to avoid falling behind in the arena meta.
Right. Well, you just left me wondering if you're really that oblivious to one of the aspects that makes this game fun to play for months on end or if you're playing the wrong kinda game.
One of the aspects that makes this game fun? There’s a lot I like about this game. I’d venture 95%+ don’t think that is one of them.
Raise your hand if you enjoy theory crafting to find good raid teams, spending 3 months starring and gearing them up, and then having them become useless because a new premium character breaks the raid.
I hate that the first 2 raids became a joke. If I felt this one wouldn’t as well I would support a nerf. But you and I both know that at some point they are going to intentionally break this raid with a character and charge us heavy resources for it. It’s old an tiresome, and not fun at all.
Oblivious it is.
While i'm sure what people think they want is not always what they actually want, you're last statement about hating that the first 2 raids became a joke is next level. Hot danggg.
No one will get banned for this obviously and i don't think it's patched yet Hey Holotable Heroes!
Below is the list of issues being addressed in an upcoming Content Update [HF] TBD (soon™).
Sith Triumvirate Raid: Phases 3 and 4
There is an interaction between Stormtrooper Han and Darth Traya allowing Stormtrooper Han to grant teams an unintended amount of Turn Meter in the raid.
This interaction will be addressed in our next hotfix as a part of our ongoing commitment to refining the raid. I will update this list as we approach the release time.
Thank you for continued support of this great game!
Fight on Heroes!
CG_RyDiggs
bolded sentence indicates it's not yet patched. https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/161408/content-update-hf-upcoming#latest
@Michal , no one gets banned for playing the game as it is made available nor utilizing a mechanic that isn't circumventing the games program. Firstly, granted the current StH advantage can be viewed as an exploit but it isn't anything outside of what is currently employed in other raids and the mechanics offered there. If it were the case we would be getting banned for auto-soloing Hpit. Secondly, why would you want to be that person to prevent the enjoyment of said mechanic by your fellow players by sounding an unnecessary alarm to already known about issue?
Vader lead with zeta, Thrawn, Stormtrooper Han, Palpantine and Raid Han can currently complete phase 3 regardless of gear level. The only requirement is for Stormtrooper Han to taunt before he dies. After Han taunts, Traya never takes another turn. Setting up the combo is ridicolously easy compared to other teams like chirpantine for the HAT raid. In addition chirpantines damages was dependant on gear level. For Vader/Stormtrooper Han damage is independant of gear level because the team is able to solo the whole phase. The special ability granted in this phase is not required for this team to work. So this is clearly not working as intended.
Vader lead with zeta, Thrawn, Stormtrooper Han, Palpantine and Raid Han can currently complete phase 3 regardless of gear level. The only requirement is for Stormtrooper Han to taunt before he dies. After Han taunts, Traya never takes another turn. Setting up the combo is ridicolously easy compared to other teams like chirpantine for the HAT raid. In addition chirpantines damages was dependant on gear level. For Vader/Stormtrooper Han damage is independant of gear level because the team is able to solo the whole phase. The special ability granted in this phase is not required for this team to work. So this is clearly not working as intended.
The point people arguing in favor of this re-balance are continually either missing of ignoring is that while the raid may not be working as intended by CG all the mechanics are working as intended and described. This was an oversight on their part, which is kinda mind-blowing to me because every time a new character is introduced with retribution or a unique/leader that counterattacks STHan is always mentioned within one page of the character post. TM gain has always been strong and as a result at least some portion of the player base has never forgotten Han so it boggles my mind that the devs did.
If they nerf STHan overall because of their oversight that's not OK. Adjust the enrage mechanic if you must, that seems perfectly reasonable, but Han is doing what he's always done. He's balanced everywhere they didn't forget about him.
Additionally Kylo and his lash out that keeps getting brought up is another false equivalency. Lash out has never crit since they added KRU. They saw a potential balance problem and adjusted for it before it went live, which is what they should have done here. Add to that chain lash out can be done in the arena and therefor can negatively impact other player's experience. The raid is a contained PvE environment so the comparison is flawed on that level as well.
Additionally Kylo and his lash out that keeps getting brought up is another false equivalency. Lash out has never crit since they added KRU. They saw a potential balance problem and adjusted for it before it went live, which is what they should have done here. Add to that chain lash out can be done in the arena and therefor can negatively impact other player's experience. The raid is a contained PvE environment so the comparison is flawed on that level as well.
Well now the devs have seen a potential abalnce probelm with StHan and are contaijing the damage. Add that to the fact that now more players are able to traya more easily and thus use her jn arena to negatively affect other players. In addition, raid rankings for rewards are very competitive and players will be able to cheat their way through actual investment for major damage.
I'm REALLY late to this party, but what is this issue everyone is talking about? Checking as many replies as I could, STHan grants TM when damaged while Taunting and now Devs are going to nerf that? What else am I missing?
Replies
Nerf Han
Nerf JTR
Nerf Death Trooper
Nerf anyone who can actually be strategized to do any damage!
Raids aren't about strategy anyways! None of this game is! Remove any thinking and just make it pure damage output! That way I can finally run my CUP alongside my Palpatine and they will both do equal amounts of damage!
DO IT!!!!!!
"Only the ones that go beyond the forum guidlines"
That is exactly how they fixed the zSavage issue in HAAT and why we have heal immunity after enrage. The only problem was that it made Sav completely useless for the raid after the fix..... but this is the most likely outcome. I get the business/income argument as Id do the same in their shoes, but I would target the raid so that it encouraged 5 to 10 ppl in an average guild to spend the money for the high damage toons while making sure the other toons in the deck did real damage and adjust raid health accordingly. That is how you ballance profit vs. customer satisfaction.
Awww what an optimist xD.
Chimaera without farming gave players an unfair advantage
Some guilds getting to use st han pre nerf and some not is an unfair advantage
Lame Straw man, false equivalency
One of the aspects that makes this game fun? There’s a lot I like about this game. I’d venture 95%+ don’t think that is one of them.
Raise your hand if you enjoy theory crafting to find good raid teams, spending 3 months starring and gearing them up, and then having them become useless because a new premium character breaks the raid.
I hate that the first 2 raids became a joke. If I felt this one wouldn’t as well I would support a nerf. But you and I both know that at some point they are going to intentionally break this raid with a character and charge us heavy resources for it. It’s old an tiresome, and not fun at all.
It isnt easy even if you have the right characters. If this nerf goes into effect I'm not sure heroic will even be beatable atm short of being a kraken in a kraken guild. I'm in a 145mil gp guild and we couldn't finish on our first try because not everyone has jtr, visas and marauder.
This raid is right now intended as a pay to win event and people found a way around that. This nerf would be punishing the player base for being smart.
No one character should be able to solo phases in a relatively new raid so that sort of "nerf" is understandable. This isn't the case, Han just makes the team run.
Nute cheese team being "nerfed" was a fix. Tm was only supposed to be gained once per turn but it was being gained multiple times. Han is doing exactly what he's supposed to do.
The real issue is how this compares to other (re)action times from CG on other issues. There is an ongoing feeling that every-time something that benefits the players gets fixed asap, while something that could benefits the players gets delayed or ignored.
Some recent examples:
It is that disparity between their actions that make a lot of people including me upset. Something that benefits a player gets fixed immediately, something that hurts additionally is ignored or stating WAI. From that point of view, despite that there is more communication in number of words in the forums, the interaction is actually worse.
I don't think it's a false equivalency. The mechanics are the same. An oversight by CG resulted in unintended consequences that benefited some but not others.
I will agree it is a difference of scale though. One is obviously more balance-altering than the other.
All they’d have to do is limit the number of stacks of bonds of weakness Traya can have. Once she reaches that number, it doesn’t deal damage, which would stop Han’s unique, ending the Tm manipulation loop and leaving all 5 characters able to be defeated with a single attack. That would leave STH viable in the raid, and people who invested in the team wouldnt have wasted resources, but instead of doing absurd damage, maybe it does 5 or 6 million.
I think that’s a fair compromise really... so it probably won’t happen like that.
95% health on traya.
Setup Han with the buff.
Hit auto.
Came back an hour later, raid finished... ?15M damage.
Definitely needs a hotfix
Please look at this before someone gets banned for this
Oblivious it is.
While i'm sure what people think they want is not always what they actually want, you're last statement about hating that the first 2 raids became a joke is next level. Hot danggg.
Hey Holotable Heroes!
Below is the list of issues being addressed in an upcoming Content Update [HF] TBD (soon™).
Sith Triumvirate Raid: Phases 3 and 4
There is an interaction between Stormtrooper Han and Darth Traya allowing Stormtrooper Han to grant teams an unintended amount of Turn Meter in the raid.
This interaction will be addressed in our next hotfix as a part of our ongoing commitment to refining the raid.
I will update this list as we approach the release time.
Thank you for continued support of this great game!
Fight on Heroes!
CG_RyDiggs
bolded sentence indicates it's not yet patched.
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/161408/content-update-hf-upcoming#latest
So enjoy this STHan thing for at least a few more months!
The point people arguing in favor of this re-balance are continually either missing of ignoring is that while the raid may not be working as intended by CG all the mechanics are working as intended and described. This was an oversight on their part, which is kinda mind-blowing to me because every time a new character is introduced with retribution or a unique/leader that counterattacks STHan is always mentioned within one page of the character post. TM gain has always been strong and as a result at least some portion of the player base has never forgotten Han so it boggles my mind that the devs did.
If they nerf STHan overall because of their oversight that's not OK. Adjust the enrage mechanic if you must, that seems perfectly reasonable, but Han is doing what he's always done. He's balanced everywhere they didn't forget about him.
Somehow, I don't think this is the same "soon" as in ship hardware. Wish it were...
Well now the devs have seen a potential abalnce probelm with StHan and are contaijing the damage. Add that to the fact that now more players are able to traya more easily and thus use her jn arena to negatively affect other players. In addition, raid rankings for rewards are very competitive and players will be able to cheat their way through actual investment for major damage.