Ships 2.0 Update - 6/7/18 [MEGA]

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    NicWester wrote: »
    Ruprecht wrote: »
    GAT stands for Tarkin?

    My bad. I read GAT as Grand Moff Tarkin because M and A are the same letters if you don't think about it too much :p

    Anyway, in that case, the problem is that the counter to Tarkin is Mace, but that there are some fundamental problems with Mace in 2.0 (speed and cooldowns were unchanged from 1.0, when they were both mitigated by Valor; but now that you only have 3 ships, Valor doesn't help at all) that need to be fixed. Thrawn can compete with Tarkin, but needs to be faster so that he can get his ultimate off first for that extra turn before Tarkin's.

    The way I remember it is that each light capital ship is about equal with the other, beats one dark ship, and loses to the other. Vice versa for dark.

    I've used Mace since long before the update, throughout the update and even to now. I get paid at number one every single day, for months on end, and my battles are not even close. Most are finished in under 90 seconds. I just recorded my fastest Fleet Victory ever yesterday, dispatching of a Thrawn fleet in 35 seconds. My win rate is easily in the upper 90% range. A picture is worth a thousand words and I can provide hundreds of screenshots and video if you would like further Evidence. My userid is PrideOfTheWicked across all platforms, add me and I'll gladly share with you
  • NicWester
    8928 posts Member
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    NicWester wrote: »
    Ruprecht wrote: »
    GAT stands for Tarkin?

    My bad. I read GAT as Grand Moff Tarkin because M and A are the same letters if you don't think about it too much :p

    Anyway, in that case, the problem is that the counter to Tarkin is Mace, but that there are some fundamental problems with Mace in 2.0 (speed and cooldowns were unchanged from 1.0, when they were both mitigated by Valor; but now that you only have 3 ships, Valor doesn't help at all) that need to be fixed. Thrawn can compete with Tarkin, but needs to be faster so that he can get his ultimate off first for that extra turn before Tarkin's.

    The way I remember it is that each light capital ship is about equal with the other, beats one dark ship, and loses to the other. Vice versa for dark.

    I've used Mace since long before the update, throughout the update and even to now. I get paid at number one every single day, for months on end, and my battles are not even close. Most are finished in under 90 seconds. I just recorded my fastest Fleet Victory ever yesterday, dispatching of a Thrawn fleet in 35 seconds. My win rate is easily in the upper 90% range. A picture is worth a thousand words and I can provide hundreds of screenshots and video if you would like further Evidence. My userid is PrideOfTheWicked across all platforms, add me and I'll gladly share with you

    Hey, by all means, my body is ready for Endurance to be good. I've tried with what I have and haven't had any luck, but I'm working on long-neglected pilots and hoping for the best down the line. But right now it's just plain rough.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • Options
    NicWester wrote: »
    Ruprecht wrote: »
    GAT stands for Tarkin?

    My bad. I read GAT as Grand Moff Tarkin because M and A are the same letters if you don't think about it too much :p

    Anyway, in that case, the problem is that the counter to Tarkin is Mace, but that there are some fundamental problems with Mace in 2.0 (speed and cooldowns were unchanged from 1.0, when they were both mitigated by Valor; but now that you only have 3 ships, Valor doesn't help at all) that need to be fixed. Thrawn can compete with Tarkin, but needs to be faster so that he can get his ultimate off first for that extra turn before Tarkin's.

    The way I remember it is that each light capital ship is about equal with the other, beats one dark ship, and loses to the other. Vice versa for dark.

    I've used Mace since long before the update, throughout the update and even to now. I get paid at number one every single day, for months on end, and my battles are not even close. Most are finished in under 90 seconds. I just recorded my fastest Fleet Victory ever yesterday, dispatching of a Thrawn fleet in 35 seconds. My win rate is easily in the upper 90% range. A picture is worth a thousand words and I can provide hundreds of screenshots and video if you would like further Evidence. My userid is PrideOfTheWicked across all platforms, add me and I'll gladly share with you

    That’s part of the problem, they took all the hard farm pilots and hard farm ships and made them less valuable than easy farm ships and pilots that players already had, this whole thing is a mess.
  • Options
    CG_Carrie wrote: »
    gufu21 wrote: »
    Huge numbers of players have said that ships 2.0 is an unbalanced mess that only makes worse what it was meant to correct (e.g., being overdependent on RNG).

    After all of that feedback, I have to say that "we will remain vigilant in monitoring balance concerns and re-evaluate as needed" sounds an awful lot like this:

    c4jt321.png
    I don't want to undervalue player experience and feedback - that is 100% something we factor into all the decisions we make. But it isn't the complete picture. On the whole ship fighting times have reduced by upwards of 10 seconds across all segments, there are significantly more people engaging in battles, and a number of other metrics we consider healthy.
    However, I want to caveat this heavily, that doesn't mean everything is hunky dory OR that the things that we're seeing is indicative of your experience, it just means we need more time and to validate some more things. We also want to see how behavior changes after the release of the table, and once people can upgrade more ships - the likelihood that the meta will start to shift. Ultimately, we want to see a lively and interesting daily ship meta. If we don't see interesting play developing, we will re-evaluate.
    -Carrie

    I simply see no balance to ships. The time invested in the builds to have your update put my top 20 shard squad in the dumpster, swimming around in the muck, finds this Knight miffed.
  • sipi22
    20 posts Member
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    I just faced an under geared but maxed unique geo triplets for fun. Maxed G12 Biggs/Vader/TFP vs G11/G10/G10 Solder,Spy,Sun respectively. I got wiped and it wasn't close. Then I actually bothered too look at the unique abilities for every ship and OH MY GOD - once you do, you realize what a blatant cash grab this change really was. No other ships have even close to the added functionality provided by these 3 uniques. What utter rubbish.

    Thanks for the insight! Which capital lead were they under?
  • JJay
    368 posts Member
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    sipi22 wrote: »
    I just faced an under geared but maxed unique geo triplets for fun. Maxed G12 Biggs/Vader/TFP vs G11/G10/G10 Solder,Spy,Sun respectively. I got wiped and it wasn't close. Then I actually bothered too look at the unique abilities for every ship and OH MY GOD - once you do, you realize what a blatant cash grab this change really was. No other ships have even close to the added functionality provided by these 3 uniques. What utter rubbish.

    Thanks for the insight! Which capital lead were they under?

    The ones I’ve seen running are Chimaera.

    And to reply on the subject of Ships 2.0 , they lost all credit when they said it was to improve the speed of battles and to make other ships more viable...

    Nerfing all meta ships across the board and giving garbage ships nobody had, insane power increases isn’t balancing the game out at all, it’s nonsense, battle times have tripled, and winning is a case of flipping a coin, most of the time it lands on tails...

    They should be completely honest and say it’s for the money, then I would have respected the honesty, don’t *iss up my back and tell me it’s raining....

  • cannonfodder_iv
    992 posts Member
    edited June 2018
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    @sipi22 It was an Executrix lead, and a slightly faster one, but it wouldn't have mattered much if mine were faster. All of the called assists and additional damage just shredded the Tie Advanced (which now appears to be favored for targeting purposes ahead of all other ships). I believe the optimal capital ship to run the triplets with is the Home One because of the protection received when attacking out of turn.

    @JJay couldn't agree more. They need to make money, we all get it and appreciate it. It's basically like your internet provider cutting your bandwidth in half, telling you that you can earn it back over time if you start watching different shows, or you can earn it back right away if you want to pay more. Wait, this could be a real thing with everything going on...
  • Options
    JJay wrote: »
    sipi22 wrote: »
    I just faced an under geared but maxed unique geo triplets for fun. Maxed G12 Biggs/Vader/TFP vs G11/G10/G10 Solder,Spy,Sun respectively. I got wiped and it wasn't close. Then I actually bothered too look at the unique abilities for every ship and OH MY GOD - once you do, you realize what a blatant cash grab this change really was. No other ships have even close to the added functionality provided by these 3 uniques. What utter rubbish.

    Thanks for the insight! Which capital lead were they under?

    The ones I’ve seen running are Chimaera.

    And to reply on the subject of Ships 2.0 , they lost all credit when they said it was to improve the speed of battles and to make other ships more viable...

    Nerfing all meta ships across the board and giving garbage ships nobody had, insane power increases isn’t balancing the game out at all, it’s nonsense, battle times have tripled, and winning is a case of flipping a coin, most of the time it lands on tails...

    They should be completely honest and say it’s for the money, then I would have respected the honesty, don’t *iss up my back and tell me it’s raining....

    Agreed 100%. Sad thing is now with the Chimaera if you don't have it why go after it but through the normal month to month way to get it. Same for the other ships on hard Nodes. They nerfed everything that you have to earn the hard way and was good to get. You felt liked you earned it and it wasn't something everyone could just go get. It was a reward.

    I can still do top 5 with my shard because we are in a chat group to help each other before the whole 2.0 came. But once the Home One and the invincible trio start showing up then that's all we will see. Sad. I hope they are able to make a balance out of ships in the near future. Maybe the new table when release will be our only hope.
  • Whatelse73
    2168 posts Member
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    I'd be curious to see what the activity level is in ships these days. A couple days ago I sat at 49 through over two payouts (about 40 hours). I'm sure I got attacked once or twice, but didn't see much movement in the next three I could face that whole time. Just did my one battle for the daily and left it at that.

    I think many are just frustrated and tired of trying to deal with this new thing. Having to "re-learn" so substantially isn't necessarily a good thing. At the same time, seems more than a few of us have literally been in a 3/4 ships to 1 advantage situation and still end up losing. Why? Because my ships aren't critting like the AI's ships are, the AI is ignoring some of the rules we are hindered by, the RNG favors the AI, etc. I even had a match where Phantom used its AoE attack on my ships and crit against all five ships for 30K+ on each of them. Yet, I'm hitting for about 4 crits in an entire match, even if I have offense up.

    I ended up switching to Tarkin from Chaemera and I do the first three attacks and then press auto. I'm sure I am not the only one.

    And why would I want to spend money on 3 ships and 3 MORE toons that I would not use for anything other than to pilot these 3 ships? I spent about 7 weeks farming the Vets to 7* using 99.9% of cantina energy just on the two of them just for JTR. Now you want "us" to farm up and gear up three toons we won't use for anything else for fleet? Along with building teams for TW, TB, regular arena, challenges, now new 'quests' for titles, and so on and so forth.
  • Options
    I haven't read through the bajillion posts on this.

    But for me the biggest thing is Biggs. And I say this as someone who has him, uses him and wins with him more often than not.

    I like the new 2.0. Personally I find it more engaging. But it's also become a rote system of trying to get target locks and keep Biggs up while killing theirs.

    It's engaging-ish because I like the new systems. But Biggs does make things dull as dishwater.
  • Options
    NicWester wrote: »
    Ruprecht wrote: »
    GAT stands for Tarkin?

    My bad. I read GAT as Grand Moff Tarkin because M and A are the same letters if you don't think about it too much :p

    Anyway, in that case, the problem is that the counter to Tarkin is Mace, but that there are some fundamental problems with Mace in 2.0 (speed and cooldowns were unchanged from 1.0, when they were both mitigated by Valor; but now that you only have 3 ships, Valor doesn't help at all) that need to be fixed. Thrawn can compete with Tarkin, but needs to be faster so that he can get his ultimate off first for that extra turn before Tarkin's.

    The way I remember it is that each light capital ship is about equal with the other, beats one dark ship, and loses to the other. Vice versa for dark.

    I've used Mace since long before the update, throughout the update and even to now. I get paid at number one every single day, for months on end, and my battles are not even close. Most are finished in under 90 seconds. I just recorded my fastest Fleet Victory ever yesterday, dispatching of a Thrawn fleet in 35 seconds. My win rate is easily in the upper 90% range. A picture is worth a thousand words and I can provide hundreds of screenshots and video if you would like further Evidence. My userid is PrideOfTheWicked across all platforms, add me and I'll gladly share with you

    I don't know about your lineup @PrideOfTheWicked but big fistbump for that g12 Plo Koon!
    Proud and Belgian officer of [DTA] BIER DTA | official Lando Calrissian fanboy KappaPride
  • NicWester
    8928 posts Member
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    I haven't read through the bajillion posts on this.

    But for me the biggest thing is Biggs. And I say this as someone who has him, uses him and wins with him more often than not.

    I like the new 2.0. Personally I find it more engaging. But it's also become a rote system of trying to get target locks and keep Biggs up while killing theirs.

    It's engaging-ish because I like the new systems. But Biggs does make things dull as dishwater.

    I have a hunch that the ship pve board will give more options. Right now folks use Biggs because he’s the only one that can taunt early. Sun Fac only taunts with buffs, Clone ARC needs to be a reinforcement. New board means new ships, there’s bound to be a new tank.

    Not saying this to invalidate or counter what you said, to be clear. In point of fact it jives with what you’re saying.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
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    My 2 cents: It is not fun to play anymore. RNG takes such a huge part in this game mode now! I haven't played ships since the update... wish it was rolled back to how it was before.
    SWGOH.gg profile - Our guild, 3720 to 1, has 1 spot open! [49/50].
  • Options
    NicWester wrote: »
    Ruprecht wrote: »
    GAT stands for Tarkin?

    My bad. I read GAT as Grand Moff Tarkin because M and A are the same letters if you don't think about it too much :p

    Anyway, in that case, the problem is that the counter to Tarkin is Mace, but that there are some fundamental problems with Mace in 2.0 (speed and cooldowns were unchanged from 1.0, when they were both mitigated by Valor; but now that you only have 3 ships, Valor doesn't help at all) that need to be fixed. Thrawn can compete with Tarkin, but needs to be faster so that he can get his ultimate off first for that extra turn before Tarkin's.

    The way I remember it is that each light capital ship is about equal with the other, beats one dark ship, and loses to the other. Vice versa for dark.

    I've used Mace since long before the update, throughout the update and even to now. I get paid at number one every single day, for months on end, and my battles are not even close. Most are finished in under 90 seconds. I just recorded my fastest Fleet Victory ever yesterday, dispatching of a Thrawn fleet in 35 seconds. My win rate is easily in the upper 90% range. A picture is worth a thousand words and I can provide hundreds of screenshots and video if you would like further Evidence. My userid is PrideOfTheWicked across all platforms, add me and I'll gladly share with you

    I don't know about your lineup @PrideOfTheWicked but big fistbump for that g12 Plo Koon!

    He's absolutely sick. If you have TL advantage, call 5s. If you have ship advantage, call PK. Thx for playing, be sure to tip your host on the way out
  • Rui99
    43 posts Member
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    I hated ships before as it was way way to RNG and was looking for a freash update. Now it’s 10x more RNG. Does my tfp land target lock no, enemies does so I’m behind the 8 ball. Ok does my next ship land target lock no. Ok, their Biggs is at full HP/protection, 1 are 2 of my ships are nearly half dead because enemy also crits at least 2/1 on defense of not 3/1. They call in reinforcements and I die. Offense will when if you can land target lock and keep Biggs alive and taunting if not you die 80% are more of the time. Thanks for making a trashy part of the game a bigger pile of crap.
  • Options
    Congratulations! Ships used to be my favorite part of the game, now in 2.0 it is singlehandedly the worst part of my day. Words cannot describe how much I utterly loathe and despise the changes to ships. First you introduce hero’s journey unbalanced toons that you have to pretty much have or not be able to raid, now ships, it’s like a systematic self-sabotage of their own game....
    I find your lack of faith disturbing.
  • TVF
    36606 posts Member
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    Tedbeast wrote: »
    Congratulations! Ships used to be my favorite part of the game, now in 2.0 it is singlehandedly the worst part of my day.

    You must have pretty great days then if this is your biggest problem.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Options
    Ok so new ships is terrible, I liked the idea at first i was one that finished first every day, I worked very hard on ship upgrades and crew. Between ring and never getting to go first i can't even beat squads 40k below me. I thought the first order would be decent, but no taunting ship forces me to use sun fac or biggs, or get whipped before i call a ship in. But what is even more annoying is when I play biggs/vader/tie, i can put the same ships out as the team im matching against and there lower level slower Chirma always gets to go first, even when i dont attack there tie fighter, how is this possible, my chirma is maxed so is Thrawn 2 zetas and all. And when his analilate goes off first and takes out all my ships and i dont get to use mine. im seriously losing every battle to teams 40k under me.
    Someone please explain the how cap. ships works and how a lower level always goes first?
    And yet again there is no variety.
    More Capital ships needed, more ships needed. or more HP needed so you can at least get to reinforcements, WHATS THE POINT OF HAVING THE MELENIUM Falcon that is a china doll. And where is the ship that stops protection regen . great we can put buff immunity on biggs but cant stop him from healing. and thats only if you can get a target lock to stick to him. Ships needs to change. we need more choices because it is garbage now, make biggs and sun fac only taunt if light side attacks and gets target lock and sunfac taunts when light side is buffed. add taunt to the command shuttle.
    The only thing wrong with the 5v5 was we needed more ships and more versatility, like what has been done in Arena now we see lots of teams not the same.
    3v3 could be fun, but the way it works now is garbage, and having a hard farm ship with the pilots maxed g12/zetas shouldn't
    be going second to sub par teams, and shouldn't be taking out it two hits.
  • Aluxtu
    420 posts Member
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    If you are using any capital ship outside of home one you are going to fall out of the ranking tables good graces. I am on a day 1 ship shard most in my shard are 370k+ as they move their ships around, a few are still 400k +. I rearranged my fleet, dropped to 350k. I might fall from 1st to 12th in a 23 hour period, any we all know when you see a home one you target them. People have stopped targeting me nearly as much. His call to assist with bistans tm boost means 1 ship WILL die before the first reinforcement and since he reinforces faster 2 ships typically die before enemy gets their first reinforcement.
  • Options
    On my shard, it is still 90% Chimaera so it’s not even a strategy thing (yet). I fight battles against inferior (mirror) fleets and lose due to pure nonsense. My guild mates all vent about the same thing. This is just not cool or fun.
    Why muck up everything at once? I get that you wanted/needed to evolve Ships. However, you let it sit stale for...a year? Then, change everything and try to push me to gear/play ships that I don’t want. We needed new ships not this.
    I used to sit in Top 10...I used to enjoy Ships and hit my 5 battles daily. Now? 1 and done. This is so disappointing...as as the silence.
  • Maztoras
    153 posts Member
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    I vote drop ships entirely..all of it. Shift all resource, loot, gear, zetas that involved ships and put them all in character department. Have dev team purely focus what this game is good at, what brings people in, and what 95% of youtube videos focus on....characters.

    Oh wait that will never happen.

    Ok yeah ships is horrible. Its not fun...completely fustrating, more time consuming, rng galore.

  • Options
    The problem is that they just don’t want to redesign ships properly. Because the main issue is actually the target lock mechanic, and how it interacts with other skills. (That’s why is such an rng fest, get lock in you first attack you win/ get 0 lock you lose.) In order to balance ships they need to redesign a lot of ships to do so. Which is way too much budget in their hands.
  • jeiaden
    34 posts Member
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    Days after days and a single answer came to us; ''But it isn't the complete picture''. Well; are we your beta testing program? We are actually paying for this game. Developers changed every single ship without a warning. This is an entire section of the game not a single chracter. Im not talking about its good or not.
  • Aluxtu
    420 posts Member
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    jeiaden wrote: »
    Days after days and a single answer came to us; ''But it isn't the complete picture''. Well; are we your beta testing program? We are actually paying for this game. Developers changed every single ship without a warning. This is an entire section of the game not a single chracter. Im not talking about its good or not.

    To be fair there was ample warning a change was coming, just not exactly what all they were going to change.
  • Lordih
    62 posts Member
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    Make a Upgrade to ship 3.0 and 3.0 is Ships 1.0. this is s...! Only rng no Play. 3 ships why Not only 1 starting ship?
  • Dblade21
    168 posts Member
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    Aluxtu wrote: »
    If you are using any capital ship outside of home one you are going to fall out of the ranking tables good graces. I am on a day 1 ship shard most in my shard are 370k+ as they move their ships around, a few are still 400k +. I rearranged my fleet, dropped to 350k. I might fall from 1st to 12th in a 23 hour period, any we all know when you see a home one you target them. People have stopped targeting me nearly as much. His call to assist with bistans tm boost means 1 ship WILL die before the first reinforcement and since he reinforces faster 2 ships typically die before enemy gets their first reinforcement.

    Then explain why my day one shard there isn't a single home one? Its 90% thrawn, a couple tarkin, and my mace team that doesn't drop below 15.
  • jeiaden
    34 posts Member
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    Aluxtu wrote: »
    jeiaden wrote: »
    Days after days and a single answer came to us; ''But it isn't the complete picture''. Well; are we your beta testing program? We are actually paying for this game. Developers changed every single ship without a warning. This is an entire section of the game not a single chracter. Im not talking about its good or not.

    To be fair there was ample warning a change was coming, just not exactly what all they were going to change.

    Yep, its true. A game changer video about 3vs3, reinforcement ability and pve ship holo-table. Well; there is no ship pve yet and all ships changed.
  • JMK
    6 posts Member
    Options
    Fix this mess you made with ships 2.0 update, it is all RNG, you have ruined a perfectly fine game mode. It affects TB, TW and Arena way too much.
  • TVF
    36606 posts Member
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    Dblade21 wrote: »
    Aluxtu wrote: »
    If you are using any capital ship outside of home one you are going to fall out of the ranking tables good graces. I am on a day 1 ship shard most in my shard are 370k+ as they move their ships around, a few are still 400k +. I rearranged my fleet, dropped to 350k. I might fall from 1st to 12th in a 23 hour period, any we all know when you see a home one you target them. People have stopped targeting me nearly as much. His call to assist with bistans tm boost means 1 ship WILL die before the first reinforcement and since he reinforces faster 2 ships typically die before enemy gets their first reinforcement.

    Then explain why my day one shard there isn't a single home one? Its 90% thrawn, a couple tarkin, and my mace team that doesn't drop below 15.

    Well I don't know about that shard, it seems like an outlier (mine are all Thrawn and Tarkin, more Tarkin now since the update). But that only makes sense since people already had built those up. Ackbar would take some time, and many (most if the forum can be believed) aren't willing to work on another ship.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • NicWester
    8928 posts Member
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    Maztoras wrote: »
    I vote drop ships entirely..all of it. Shift all resource, loot, gear, zetas that involved ships and put them all in character department. Have dev team purely focus what this game is good at, what brings people in, and what 95% of youtube videos focus on....characters.

    Oh wait that will never happen.

    Ok yeah ships is horrible. Its not fun...completely fustrating, more time consuming, rng galore.
    Then don't do it. You don't seem to understand how many of us hated 1.0 and stopped participating in it, that's what led to this change. They saw all the folks like me who started off strong doing 5 a day for a long, long time, tapering off to 3-4 a day to maintain rank, then one a day for credit, then bottoming out at not even doing the one, just getting in, getting out, and getting credit.

    Folks talk about how great their competitive leaderboard was because they and 20 other players had worked out deals to share ranks and it was so awesome because there was so much co-operation competition and we need to go back to 5 on 5 because they're not having any fun, while at the same time ignoring that more or less everyone beneath them didn't even bother.
    Dblade21 wrote: »
    Then explain why my day one shard there isn't a single home one? Its 90% thrawn, a couple tarkin, and my mace team that doesn't drop below 15.
    Because the players on your leaderboard are either working on Ackbar now and Thrawn is just their best option, or they're bad players and don't want to adapt to a new meta where you can't just ride one capital ship all the way to the top.
    ACdarkside wrote: »
    On my shard, it is still 90% Chimaera so it’s not even a strategy thing (yet). I fight battles against inferior (mirror) fleets and lose due to pure nonsense. My guild mates all vent about the same thing. This is just not cool or fun.
    If you're doing something that doesn't work, that's part of the process of discovering what does work. If you just keep doing the same thing that doesn't work over and over, then you really ought to try doing something different. I'm trying not to sound insulting with this, but.... I mean...
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
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