Nightsister Zombie Rework: Begone Paper, Hello Fat [MEGA]

Replies

  • 7AnimalMother
    1718 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    @CG_TopHat

    "At its core, this strategy primarily breaks a core tenant/rule of the game - investing more deeply in a character should always be better in terms of gameplay outcomes; more health, more damage, more functionality, etc. This is a game about strategic resource management and you should be rewarded for strategically investing in a character."

    Why do you guys give us insulting nonsense like this?
    We all know this is about two things: 1. breaking raids (which means less money spent on other toons) 2. the fact that the "investing more deeply" in a character makes you money from gear sales. So really just one thing. Money.

    Just be honest and people respect you more.

    Also, you need to be consistent in your zeta refunds. Every NS zeta is potentially impacted by this as zombie is a key cog in that squad, and should be refunded. At the very minimum, AV rampage is also death dependent similar to Daka's unique and should be refunded.

    Edited to remove swearing shorthand. - EA_Cian
    Post edited by EA_Cian on
  • Would like my hoda zeta back as it is not working as intented when i zetad him for the mass assists.
  • If anyone here wouldn’t reinvest those resources right back into Nightsisters they are crazy. I’ll be shocked if they don’t remain the #1 raid team.

    Baloney! I would keep Asajj Unique for Haat & that is it. They may work to a half of their percentage with Zombie, but those Zetas are now worthless with her on your team

  • When you see teams with G1 Bastilas outperforming teams with G12 Bastilas then it's a fair comparison.

    When a 3 and 4 star G11 can outperform a full g12 7 star arena team then yes its a fair comparison[/quote]

    No, it isn't. You're comparing apples and oranges. Being upset doesn't give you license to make up whatever you want.
  • Franimus wrote: »
    Most people in this thread have no clue what they are talking about. They only use ns because they saw a video of how to do it, but they never would have come up with the strategy on their own. So now we just need to wait for a gc to post a video of how this is still viable after the changes and everyone will be happy. Because very few here can take a block of text and derive a strategy from it, they will not be satisfied with any amount of discussion.

    Okay dude. Tell me exactly how Asajj Zeta, Specifically her Unique, MT Leadership Calling to assist, We know what this does to Daka because (I think you meant to say CG) told you, will be in any form close to what they are with Zombie nerf? This makes them a fraction of of what they are supposed to do with Zombie. Just because you don't have a clue as how to use them doesn't mean that everyone is on that end of the pool. Many people have been using NS for quite some time now
  • Deedlit wrote: »
    They should refund the gears too. Curious as to why no one mentioned how Talzin lead is **** now with the zombie nerf..

    Fair enough. But first you have to return all the rewards you've gotten from using those characters.
  • CG You do realize that you created a paper Initiate strategy now. A lvl 76 iniate with blue gear will have a omegaed basic and can be more easily killed off to set up death swarm. also a gearing zombie to make it more survivable but not buying the new unique cuts out the revives making it easier to set up death swam, you just have to manage the zombie a little more.Doesn't this go against the very concept you said you were fixing?
  • So, you've made G10+ Zombie better, but made any other player investment to this point worse?

    My max ability G8 Zombie just got nerfed into the ground because I didn't raise her all the way to G10? I not only have to gear up to G10 now, along with multiple other toons, but I also now have to find the ability mats to max a new ability for her to be useful?

    Nice "fix". I think you overcompensated on this one a bit CG. Zombie is definitely better at higher gear levels now, but you've essentially rendered her useless under G10, or at least, highly ineffective.
  • Totally missed the point, trashed my investment, made the kit far more complex. Thanks. I was right not to trust CG on this one.
  • Deedlit wrote: »
    They should refund the gears too. Curious as to why no one mentioned how Talzin lead is **** now with the zombie nerf..

    Fair enough. But first you have to return all the rewards you've gotten from using those characters.

    following your logic they should reset entire game return all gear and shards for unneeded chars we collected for mods, all chars "needed" for haat, that are obsolete now especially jawas needed for mods

  • Padas wrote: »
    CG You do realize that you created a paper Initiate strategy now. A lvl 76 iniate with blue gear will have a omegaed basic and can be more easily killed off to set up death swarm. also a gearing zombie to make it more survivable but not buying the new unique cuts out the revives making it easier to set up death swam, you just have to manage the zombie a little more.Doesn't this go against the very concept you said you were fixing?

    Shhhhhh.... lol
    Leader: Grey Area 51 - My Squads: https://swgoh.gg/p/716522998/
  • TorukMakto wrote: »
    Deedlit wrote: »
    They should refund the gears too. Curious as to why no one mentioned how Talzin lead is **** now with the zombie nerf..

    Fair enough. But first you have to return all the rewards you've gotten from using those characters.

    following your logic they should reset entire game return all gear and shards for unneeded chars we collected for mods, all chars "needed" for haat, that are obsolete now especially jawas needed for mods

    Quite the opposite. It's the people crying for their full investments returned that are taking that point of view. I'm suggesting that if they think they should get to reinvest those resources that they have to return everything they earned with them.
  • Zanads wrote: »
    So, you've made G10+ Zombie better, but made any other player investment to this point worse?

    My max ability G8 Zombie just got nerfed into the ground because I didn't raise her all the way to G10? I not only have to gear up to G10 now, along with multiple other toons, but I also now have to find the ability mats to max a new ability for her to be useful?

    Nice "fix". I think you overcompensated on this one a bit CG. Zombie is definitely better at higher gear levels now, but you've essentially rendered her useless under G10, or at least, highly ineffective.

    thats kind of the point though. To be less effective at lower gear levels

    Gotta give it to CG: Doubt paper zombie will be viable after this.
  • I don't like the idea of a low gear character being better. So I see the need for a rework. They may have gotten this one right but until people have a chance to play with it in arena, TW, and raids it is tough to say. Hopefully after this EA is done making changes to Nightsisters. I just want to know what things will be going forwards.
  • TheRealObiOne
    120 posts Member
    edited September 2018

    When you see teams with G1 Bastilas outperforming teams with G12 Bastilas then it's a fair comparison.

    When a 3 and 4 star G11 can outperform a full g12 7 star arena team then yes its a fair comparison

    No, it isn't. You're comparing apples and oranges. Being upset doesn't give you license to make up whatever you want.[/quote]

    Lol, a little touchy aren't we- they are coming for your 3 star Bastila next, run while you can buddy
  • Quite the opposite. It's the people crying for their full investments returned that are taking that point of view. I'm suggesting that if they think they should get to reinvest those resources that they have to return everything they earned with them.

    yea but you are missing one major point NS mechanics were advertised as that, thus that is misleading and as Bubba said NS have quite simple mechanics you have lowest developed zombie that will die as much giving AV stacks.

    Is there a part of advertised for selling not understandable to you?

    and also part ppl crying
    mate are we playing the same game? how many times they mislead us?

  • OK so.. Have devs thought of anyone doing the following...

    After zombie has - 100speed. Use Thrawn to swap tm with zombie, and activate unbreakable will. Zombie would have 0 speed and be unkillable and the target of all attacks...
  • TorukMakto wrote: »
    Deedlit wrote: »
    They should refund the gears too. Curious as to why no one mentioned how Talzin lead is **** now with the zombie nerf..

    Fair enough. But first you have to return all the rewards you've gotten from using those characters.

    following your logic they should reset entire game return all gear and shards for unneeded chars we collected for mods, all chars "needed" for haat, that are obsolete now especially jawas needed for mods

    Quite the opposite. It's the people crying for their full investments returned that are taking that point of view. I'm suggesting that if they think they should get to reinvest those resources that they have to return everything they earned with them.

    People deserve to get return on their investments.... How would you feel if you bought a Ferrari only to wake up one morning and found a Prius in the driveway? Then how would you feel if the company that sold you the ferarri tried to act as if they were doing you some kind of favor by bragging up the gas mileage of the Prius?..... That is exactly what is happening here....

    Regardless of the rewards earned, the investment made should still not be delivering diminished returns....
  • :D:D SHUSH BRO!!!! :D
  • Vice_torn wrote: »
    OK so.. Have devs thought of anyone doing the following...

    After zombie has - 100speed. Use Thrawn to swap tm with zombie, and activate unbreakable will. Zombie would have 0 speed and be unkillable and the target of all attacks...

    Yes they did. and they answered. The short answer is that won't happen. If you want the long answer its somewhere in this pile of comments
  • From what i understand,

    In p3, a g8-9 zombie will work exactly how it works now except you’ll have 100% more speed on it during topple (sometimes less but that should be a positive overall). So that’s actually a buff.
    In p4 it will be a bit harder to play around the bond of weakness stacks cause you don’t want your zombie to randomly die twice in a row, but the speed will actually help (zombie takes more turn so more likely to stay in the positive speed wise), hard to say how it will sway the damage if it does.
    In pvp g12 zombie was already better than weaker ones.

    What’s the point of this rework again ?
  • swgohfan29 wrote: »
    Zanads wrote: »
    So, you've made G10+ Zombie better, but made any other player investment to this point worse?

    My max ability G8 Zombie just got nerfed into the ground because I didn't raise her all the way to G10? I not only have to gear up to G10 now, along with multiple other toons, but I also now have to find the ability mats to max a new ability for her to be useful?

    Nice "fix". I think you overcompensated on this one a bit CG. Zombie is definitely better at higher gear levels now, but you've essentially rendered her useless under G10, or at least, highly ineffective.

    thats kind of the point though. To be less effective at lower gear levels

    Gotta give it to CG: Doubt paper zombie will be viable after this.

    Oh I get that, but being ineffective until you hit G10? Most toons at G8 are at least somewhat effective and generally have all their abilities open. Why put the threshold for Zombie at G10 AND force players to max a wholly new ability?

    Does the toon get better after that? Yes. Does the rest of the game have anything similar? NO!

    They essentially took Paper Zombie and went the entirely opposite direction with investment requirements to make it effective. Balance be damned.
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    TorukMakto wrote: »
    Deedlit wrote: »
    They should refund the gears too. Curious as to why no one mentioned how Talzin lead is **** now with the zombie nerf..

    Fair enough. But first you have to return all the rewards you've gotten from using those characters.

    following your logic they should reset entire game return all gear and shards for unneeded chars we collected for mods, all chars "needed" for haat, that are obsolete now especially jawas needed for mods

    Quite the opposite. It's the people crying for their full investments returned that are taking that point of view. I'm suggesting that if they think they should get to reinvest those resources that they have to return everything they earned with them.

    People deserve to get return on their investments.... How would you feel if you bought a Ferrari only to wake up one morning and found a Prius in the driveway? Then how would you feel if the company that sold you the ferarri tried to act as if they were doing you some kind of favor by bragging up the gas mileage of the Prius?..... That is exactly what is happening here....

    Regardless of the rewards earned, the investment made should still not be delivering diminished returns....

    Kudos on this. This is exactly what is and has been going on every **** time someone figures out some advantage regarding this raid. They screw with the mechanics of toons that have been being used as intended upon their release just because they didn't think about how said toons/teams would function in their raid.
  • Give me all my NS zetas back.

  • Zanads wrote: »
    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    Zanads wrote: »
    So, you've made G10+ Zombie better, but made any other player investment to this point worse?

    My max ability G8 Zombie just got nerfed into the ground because I didn't raise her all the way to G10? I not only have to gear up to G10 now, along with multiple other toons, but I also now have to find the ability mats to max a new ability for her to be useful?

    Nice "fix". I think you overcompensated on this one a bit CG. Zombie is definitely better at higher gear levels now, but you've essentially rendered her useless under G10, or at least, highly ineffective.

    thats kind of the point though. To be less effective at lower gear levels

    Gotta give it to CG: Doubt paper zombie will be viable after this.

    Oh I get that, but being ineffective until you hit G10? Most toons at G8 are at least somewhat effective and generally have all their abilities open. Why put the threshold for Zombie at G10 AND force players to max a wholly new ability?

    Does the toon get better after that? Yes. Does the rest of the game have anything similar? NO!

    They essentially took Paper Zombie and went the entirely opposite direction with investment requirements to make it effective. Balance be damned.

    I disagree. I see G1 to 6 as being completely useless, G7 to 9 as in "eh, as long as your facing g7 to 9 toons, you should be ok maybe?" and G10 as the effective point. I feel at g9 she should be able to shrug maybe a hit off sometimes and so get that bonus speed


    Of course, that depends on wether any stat changes are happening.
  • swgohfan29 wrote: »
    Zanads wrote: »
    swgohfan29 wrote: »
    Zanads wrote: »
    So, you've made G10+ Zombie better, but made any other player investment to this point worse?

    My max ability G8 Zombie just got nerfed into the ground because I didn't raise her all the way to G10? I not only have to gear up to G10 now, along with multiple other toons, but I also now have to find the ability mats to max a new ability for her to be useful?

    Nice "fix". I think you overcompensated on this one a bit CG. Zombie is definitely better at higher gear levels now, but you've essentially rendered her useless under G10, or at least, highly ineffective.

    thats kind of the point though. To be less effective at lower gear levels

    Gotta give it to CG: Doubt paper zombie will be viable after this.

    Oh I get that, but being ineffective until you hit G10? Most toons at G8 are at least somewhat effective and generally have all their abilities open. Why put the threshold for Zombie at G10 AND force players to max a wholly new ability?

    Does the toon get better after that? Yes. Does the rest of the game have anything similar? NO!

    They essentially took Paper Zombie and went the entirely opposite direction with investment requirements to make it effective. Balance be damned.

    I disagree. I see G1 to 6 as being completely useless, G7 to 9 as in "eh, as long as your facing g7 to 9 toons, you should be ok maybe?" and G10 as the effective point. I feel at g9 she should be able to shrug maybe a hit off sometimes and so get that bonus speed


    Of course, that depends on wether any stat changes are happening.

    I don't think we disagree actually. The inflection point is definitely at G10 for being effective now.

    My problem is she was plenty effective as a tanky-tank at G8-9 currently, and now the bar for that effectiveness has gone up 1-2 gear levels, and placed behind investment of a pile of ability mats. So much for respecting the investment of players who didn't do Paper, but also didn't see the point in prioritizing Zombie for upper gear levels.

    Furthermore, I can't think of another character that requires G10 to unlock all of their abilities. Particularly one that is so tied to their just being effective. That was endless hoard for Zombie, now its another new and complicated mess of an ability behind a higher gear level.
  • @Ravens1113 I feel your pain. I recently got mother talzin zeta hoping for a another path to a good score so that I wasn't fighting over p4 damage with my guildies. I liked that if I didn't get p3 damage I could swap the leader from talzin to asajj and still have a chance at a decent score.
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