Yeah, don't care. Got my Tank Tamer title last night from my first solo ever... actually it may be the first time ever I even made an effort to get a high HAAT score. But with the title crossed off, I don't really care if C-3PO changes so he no longer can make HAAT easy mode.
Regarding the HSTR it doesn't really matter as well. We are more than capable of completing the raid without C-3PO messing things up.
That said, for the sake of the sanity of forums and the love of RNGesus, please change raid Traya mechanics.
What I worry about is say they nerf Finn, then a month later another toon is discovered to work with 3po that does something similar. Are they going to nerf that toon as well? Or will they then nerf 3po in which case the original toon didn’t need a nerf? Or they change hstr somehow in which case the toon didn’t need a nerf to begin with as well. Either way the point is that nerfing existing toons is not the answer.
I will echo what others said and just fix 3po, things were working fine before he showed up.
A big +1 to anyone who wants Traya changed and the other two left alone. Everyone else gets a big +1 poke in the eye.
I'm no dev but adding Tenacity to Traya when toppled seems like the least intrusive change by far. Which should be the goal. Fix the specific problem without affecting anything else.
Again, this "specific problem" is not Traya at all. This isn't exploitation of some Traya-specific mechanics, it's the way how Finn+C3PO combo works with "toppled" condition of any raid boss (including future ones). So any "fix" here probably should affect not only Traya but entire "toppled" condition, or else the problem will arise again on new events.
A big +1 to anyone who wants Traya changed and the other two left alone. Everyone else gets a big +1 poke in the eye.
I'm no dev but adding Tenacity to Traya when toppled seems like the least intrusive change by far. Which should be the goal. Fix the specific problem without affecting anything else.
Again, this "specific problem" is not Traya at all. This isn't exploitation of some Traya-specific mechanics, it's the way how Finn+C3PO combo works with "toppled" condition of any raid boss (including future ones). So any "fix" here probably should affect not only Traya but entire "toppled" condition, or else the problem will arise again on new events.
Sure you're right Hortus, they just shouldn't make Finn the fall guy. Which unfortunately is what they seem to be alluding too. As has been said in most other posts, the new guy is the problem. Shiny or not, he needs the rework.
I will be very unhappy if they change Finn in a way that affects the team I’ve been using with him since long before this issue arose.
If they must change Finn it should be to have the zeta apply only to exposes applied by resistance characters. Don’t screw up the resistance B team (or A team for those who don’t have JTRey yet).
Adding my voice to those who do not want to see Finn’s zeta changed. As someone else pointed out, zFinn is important to new-to-mid-level players, and they are the ones who will be hurt the most if his zeta is nerfed.
I do not think it is a good business decision to change a team—any team—that has been around and been good for a long time to protect new content. Why should players spend their time and, for those who are p2p, money building good squads with interesting mechanics if there is a high risk those mechanics will be nerfed when something new comes along?
Having said that, I do not use NS, and I still find Talzin lead squads mostly unbeatable in arena and territory war/GA after the changes they made to Acolyte, so it seems NS are still a good option for mid-level players. I suppose it is possible that Finn’s zeta could be changed in such a way as he is still good on offense in TB/TW/GA.
But please, EA, recognize that if you keep changing toons in ways that cause people’s time and resource investments to be a waste, you will lose your player base’s trust.
I will be very unhappy if they change Finn in a way that affects the team I’ve been using with him since long before this issue arose.
If they must change Finn it should be to have the zeta apply only to exposes applied by resistance characters. Don’t screw up the resistance B team (or A team for those who don’t have JTRey yet).
Not sure that would fix the issue any way. The Zeta mechanic is related to the attacking of an exposed enemy awarding TM gain. The application of the expose debuff has little to do with his Zeta.
The fix is to find away around how often expose is applied so either nerf 3po or bump Traya's tenacity against expose. Problem with the last is the AAT and Rancor both Topple so if they correct the Sith raid they'd have to do the same to the others and all future raids.
Net result is, too much hassle so... either nerf 3po (preferred) or change the TM gain mechanic of Finns Zeta which will potentially (an quite likely) ruin him
Wow they really know now to mess things up. I have a 7 star c3po and I think they should tweak him. Why risk screwing up all kinds of other things when you could just make a correction on c3po? Whatever you nerf on c3po make up for it by adding to his survivability or let him give stealth to a random character or whatever. Give a little if you take a little.
So, with one specific character combo (which is really hard to get and 99% of players don't have) in one specific part of one specific raid, things aren't working the way the developers planned? And the idea even crossed their minds that they should nerf one of those toons instead of the raid? Unless that toon is dominating multiple other areas of the game, too, then the problem isn't that toon/Finn.
Leave ZFinn out of any adjustments. Either work on C3P0, and make a solid statement on his kit to keep good faith with players, or just tweak Traya. STR raid has been such a major storm for adjustments from ST Han, to Expose, to NS... enough is enough.
Why is it always the abilities that have existed for years the problem? Just accept that these raids have become outdated and can't keep up with the development of new characters. Go make a new raid.
Changing Traya's probably the safest, easiest solution.
But I'll be honest, I'm open to changing Finn. Resistance is an older faction and he was one of the original characters not just in the faction but in the whole game. Giving him that zeta was a shot in the arm that made the faction come alive, but they've fallen behind. Now about the only thing a zeta Finn is good for is trivializing GW and racking up numbers in HAAT. That isn't to say that those aren't valuable things to do, especially for newer players just getting started, but reworking Finn's zeta could potentially be a way to bring Resistance into line with newer releases.
All of this is a long way of saying that I'm keeping my mind open. Let's see what gets changed before going off the deep end.
ZFinn +2/3 resistance toons work amazing in TW and GA when need be. Some fresh things are great, as long as its discussed before full and final implementation, such as how these things always happen here.
A big +1 to anyone who wants Traya changed and the other two left alone. Everyone else gets a big +1 poke in the eye.
I'm no dev but adding Tenacity to Traya when toppled seems like the least intrusive change by far. Which should be the goal. Fix the specific problem without affecting anything else.
Again, this "specific problem" is not Traya at all. This isn't exploitation of some Traya-specific mechanics, it's the way how Finn+C3PO combo works with "toppled" condition of any raid boss (including future ones). So any "fix" here probably should affect not only Traya but entire "toppled" condition, or else the problem will arise again on new events.
What new events? Topple is only a thing in raids, and CG Tophat already said they don't mind HAAT being solo'd by it. So fix it for the one phase with a topple in STR, and problem solved. Doesn't affect any other part of the game. Messing with zFinn or C3PO affects almost every other part of the game.
do not touch c3PO change finns leader. many have moved to rey and finn doesnt work well with finn is the heart of the problem/bug if you do go with fixing treya then make sur said fix ONLY applies to finn teams so it doesnt screw up the rest of the game for non finn teams by making her harder
How is Finn's Lead the problem? The first Zetas were released with ships in mid November 2016. In December 2016 Finn was the Log In toon, got his lead zeta'd and Poe's and Trooper's kits were tweaked. His lead has never had a problem in any game mode for two years until 2 days ago when C3PO was released. Either Creepio needs to lose the expose granting ability all around or against Raid Bosses or Raid Form Traya needs to be immune to expose. Changing a leadership ability that's been around for two years with no problems shouldn't even be considered
"Who's the more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows them?"--Obi-Wan Kenobi
I've asked this before and know not to expect an answer, but if you guys do extensive testing then what the hell did you test that worked in p3 before releasing it to the public?
when they tested a revan team against nest, they couldnt beat her, so then they decided to nerf nest... that can give you an idea of how bad they play/test things?
Chex Mix but they called it Chex Mark
"Who's the more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows them?"--Obi-Wan Kenobi
This fix really needs to be limited to only P3 of the sith raid. The fact they didn't find this squad before release is sad an pathetic but lets get past that. They also need to implement a fix that doesn't completely nerf the squad because many put out for C3PO and they shouldn't have their investment completely sunk. The best and most elegant fix is a TM gain mechanic for Traya where she gains TM whenever a debuff expires. This will protect the core difficulty of the phase as there aren't any other expose based squads used in P3. If Traya gained 2 percent TM when a debuff expires that would allow you to land 50 exposes per topple. Probably about 1.5 million damage. Most squads would get to 1, 2, or 3 topples before the run falls apart leaving damage between 1.5 and 4.5 million. I think that is fair and in line with other sith raid squads. If they are okay with more dmage they could make it a 1% gain and damage would span between 3 and 9 million. Honestly this is the best fix and we should do everything we can to get it in their face.
I feel that an ideal solution is to modify P3 Traya.
While toppled, Traya gains X% (ideally 5%) tenacity each time she is exposed until her next turn.
This allows the team to still be viable in P3. For the first couple topples players would be able to get about 3 volleys in before her tenacity is too high, and following topples would be even less because of her tenacity gain from destroying sabers.
This wouldn't affect any other major team compositions other than those with a zFinn lead (RJT wouldn't be affected as her exposes are not resistable).
If Finn's zeta is changed it will affect HAAT strategies and resistance effectiveness in PvP venues.
If rebels are given a different debuff from C-3P0's unique, then non-rebel comps would arise (zFinn, C-3P0, RT, Enfys, and Imperial Droid / Stormtrooper / RP could accomplish something similar but players wouldn't be able to auto the fight).
I will be very unhappy if they change Finn in a way that affects the team I’ve been using with him since long before this issue arose.
If they must change Finn it should be to have the zeta apply only to exposes applied by resistance characters. Don’t screw up the resistance B team (or A team for those who don’t have JTRey yet).
Not sure that would fix the issue any way. The Zeta mechanic is related to the attacking of an exposed enemy awarding TM gain. The application of the expose debuff has little to do with his Zeta.
The fix is to find away around how often expose is applied so either nerf 3po or bump Traya's tenacity against expose. Problem with the last is the AAT and Rancor both Topple so if they correct the Sith raid they'd have to do the same to the others and all future raids.
Net result is, too much hassle so... either nerf 3po (preferred) or change the TM gain mechanic of Finns Zeta which will potentially (an quite likely) ruin him
The application of the expose doesn’t currently have anything to do with the zeta. I’m saying if they want to change the zeta, that is a change they could make, so that there is no TM gain if the expose getting popped was applied by CLS or Han or whomever.
This is not my preferred solution, but it would at least allow the Finn resistance team to continue to operate. This is one of the teams I rely on in GA, completely independent of C3PO, and I will be very unhappy if it is made useless because of an unrelated issue.
Now about the only thing a zeta Finn is good for is trivializing GW and racking up numbers in HAAT.
Um, no. A 2nd Res team lead by zFinn can punch waaaaaaaaaay above its GP in both TW and GA.
I've been running Zinn RT Poe Chewie and Han since Chewie dropped for TW amongst other things. It's really really pathetic that they didn't test replacing a toon from this squad for the new resistance toon. This isn't at all like nute jawa's. This is a popular toon, and widely used squad that they didn't bother testing. It would be like adding a new rebel toon and not trying them under CLS or adding a new droid and not testing them under HK lead. This didn't happen because there are almost 1 billion 5 man squad combinations. This squad should have been in the top 20 that they tested.
How come everytime someone gets a bit of an edge in sith raid it becomes broken and toons get nerfed or more changes to the raid. Face it sith raid was a huge mistake amd broken from the start, yet you baby the **** thing. Leave the raid alone. If people find a stratedgy that wasnt disovered by the devs leave it alone too. This is pathetic and getting old. Surely we should be able to use more than 2 squads for sith raid but you continue to force it by scrapping anything else.
I will be very unhappy if they change Finn in a way that affects the team I’ve been using with him since long before this issue arose.
If they must change Finn it should be to have the zeta apply only to exposes applied by resistance characters. Don’t screw up the resistance B team (or A team for those who don’t have JTRey yet).
Not sure that would fix the issue any way. The Zeta mechanic is related to the attacking of an exposed enemy awarding TM gain. The application of the expose debuff has little to do with his Zeta.
The fix is to find away around how often expose is applied so either nerf 3po or bump Traya's tenacity against expose. Problem with the last is the AAT and Rancor both Topple so if they correct the Sith raid they'd have to do the same to the others and all future raids.
Net result is, too much hassle so... either nerf 3po (preferred) or change the TM gain mechanic of Finns Zeta which will potentially (an quite likely) ruin him
The application of the expose doesn’t currently have anything to do with the zeta. I’m saying if they want to change the zeta, that is a change they could make, so that there is no TM gain if the expose getting popped was applied by CLS or Han or whomever.
This is not my preferred solution, but it would at least allow the Finn resistance team to continue to operate. This is one of the teams I rely on in GA, completely independent of C3PO, and I will be very unhappy if it is made useless because of an unrelated issue.
While I see this as a viable solution, keep in mind this would require recoding how these things work. That’s a lot of time and probably more bugs. Remember that the game can’t currently track who applied an earlier debuff. That’s why if a TD destroys a character it won’t trigger Boba’s payout, as one example.
A similar solution of requiring a Resistance character to trigger the expose is a terrible one, because it would be a major nerf to Finn lead teams that aren’t full resistance (ex: using Wampa, who fits in well with his expose synergy and AOE attack). In GA/TW a lot of people don’t have enough resistance characters for a full 2nd resistance team, so they add in 1 or 2 additional characters.
Everyone saying "change Traya" is sticking their fingers in their ears and ignoring the fact that the loop would still work against any future raid boss.
The more I think about it, the best solution would probably be to change C3P0's unique so that it adds something other than Expose to Rebel/Ewok basics. Stagger would still be really good (potentially even better, for PVP), and raid bosses are already immune to that, so it solves the issue forever without nerfing Finn or making Phase 3 any more miserable than it already is.
I still think it's far more likely that we'll see Finn gimped somehow, though.
How come everytime someone gets a bit of an edge in sith raid it becomes broken and toons get nerfed or more changes to the raid. Face it sith raid was a huge mistake amd broken from the start, yet you baby the **** thing. Leave the raid alone. If people find a stratedgy that wasnt disovered by the devs leave it alone too. This is pathetic and getting old. Surely we should be able to use more than 2 squads for sith raid but you continue to force it by scrapping anything else.
It's much easier and cheaper to keep existing content artificially difficult than it is to create fresh new content.
Everyone saying "change Traya" is sticking their fingers in their ears and ignoring the fact that the loop would still work against any future raid boss.
I don't care about future raid bosses. That's a long way off most likely. Deal with it then. Don't mess with stuff that is cool now. Make a small change to Traya when toppled. Done.
Replies
Regarding the HSTR it doesn't really matter as well. We are more than capable of completing the raid without C-3PO messing things up.
That said, for the sake of the sanity of forums and the love of RNGesus, please change raid Traya mechanics.
I will echo what others said and just fix 3po, things were working fine before he showed up.
Again, this "specific problem" is not Traya at all. This isn't exploitation of some Traya-specific mechanics, it's the way how Finn+C3PO combo works with "toppled" condition of any raid boss (including future ones). So any "fix" here probably should affect not only Traya but entire "toppled" condition, or else the problem will arise again on new events.
Sure you're right Hortus, they just shouldn't make Finn the fall guy. Which unfortunately is what they seem to be alluding too. As has been said in most other posts, the new guy is the problem. Shiny or not, he needs the rework.
If they must change Finn it should be to have the zeta apply only to exposes applied by resistance characters. Don’t screw up the resistance B team (or A team for those who don’t have JTRey yet).
I do not think it is a good business decision to change a team—any team—that has been around and been good for a long time to protect new content. Why should players spend their time and, for those who are p2p, money building good squads with interesting mechanics if there is a high risk those mechanics will be nerfed when something new comes along?
Having said that, I do not use NS, and I still find Talzin lead squads mostly unbeatable in arena and territory war/GA after the changes they made to Acolyte, so it seems NS are still a good option for mid-level players. I suppose it is possible that Finn’s zeta could be changed in such a way as he is still good on offense in TB/TW/GA.
But please, EA, recognize that if you keep changing toons in ways that cause people’s time and resource investments to be a waste, you will lose your player base’s trust.
Not sure that would fix the issue any way. The Zeta mechanic is related to the attacking of an exposed enemy awarding TM gain. The application of the expose debuff has little to do with his Zeta.
The fix is to find away around how often expose is applied so either nerf 3po or bump Traya's tenacity against expose. Problem with the last is the AAT and Rancor both Topple so if they correct the Sith raid they'd have to do the same to the others and all future raids.
Net result is, too much hassle so... either nerf 3po (preferred) or change the TM gain mechanic of Finns Zeta which will potentially (an quite likely) ruin him
But I'll be honest, I'm open to changing Finn. Resistance is an older faction and he was one of the original characters not just in the faction but in the whole game. Giving him that zeta was a shot in the arm that made the faction come alive, but they've fallen behind. Now about the only thing a zeta Finn is good for is trivializing GW and racking up numbers in HAAT. That isn't to say that those aren't valuable things to do, especially for newer players just getting started, but reworking Finn's zeta could potentially be a way to bring Resistance into line with newer releases.
All of this is a long way of saying that I'm keeping my mind open. Let's see what gets changed before going off the deep end.
Um, no. A 2nd Res team lead by zFinn can punch waaaaaaaaaay above its GP in both TW and GA.
Always reliable!
What new events? Topple is only a thing in raids, and CG Tophat already said they don't mind HAAT being solo'd by it. So fix it for the one phase with a topple in STR, and problem solved. Doesn't affect any other part of the game. Messing with zFinn or C3PO affects almost every other part of the game.
How is Finn's Lead the problem? The first Zetas were released with ships in mid November 2016. In December 2016 Finn was the Log In toon, got his lead zeta'd and Poe's and Trooper's kits were tweaked. His lead has never had a problem in any game mode for two years until 2 days ago when C3PO was released. Either Creepio needs to lose the expose granting ability all around or against Raid Bosses or Raid Form Traya needs to be immune to expose. Changing a leadership ability that's been around for two years with no problems shouldn't even be considered
Chex Mix but they called it Chex Mark
While toppled, Traya gains X% (ideally 5%) tenacity each time she is exposed until her next turn.
This allows the team to still be viable in P3. For the first couple topples players would be able to get about 3 volleys in before her tenacity is too high, and following topples would be even less because of her tenacity gain from destroying sabers.
This wouldn't affect any other major team compositions other than those with a zFinn lead (RJT wouldn't be affected as her exposes are not resistable).
If Finn's zeta is changed it will affect HAAT strategies and resistance effectiveness in PvP venues.
If rebels are given a different debuff from C-3P0's unique, then non-rebel comps would arise (zFinn, C-3P0, RT, Enfys, and Imperial Droid / Stormtrooper / RP could accomplish something similar but players wouldn't be able to auto the fight).
The application of the expose doesn’t currently have anything to do with the zeta. I’m saying if they want to change the zeta, that is a change they could make, so that there is no TM gain if the expose getting popped was applied by CLS or Han or whomever.
This is not my preferred solution, but it would at least allow the Finn resistance team to continue to operate. This is one of the teams I rely on in GA, completely independent of C3PO, and I will be very unhappy if it is made useless because of an unrelated issue.
I've been running Zinn RT Poe Chewie and Han since Chewie dropped for TW amongst other things. It's really really pathetic that they didn't test replacing a toon from this squad for the new resistance toon. This isn't at all like nute jawa's. This is a popular toon, and widely used squad that they didn't bother testing. It would be like adding a new rebel toon and not trying them under CLS or adding a new droid and not testing them under HK lead. This didn't happen because there are almost 1 billion 5 man squad combinations. This squad should have been in the top 20 that they tested.
While I see this as a viable solution, keep in mind this would require recoding how these things work. That’s a lot of time and probably more bugs. Remember that the game can’t currently track who applied an earlier debuff. That’s why if a TD destroys a character it won’t trigger Boba’s payout, as one example.
A similar solution of requiring a Resistance character to trigger the expose is a terrible one, because it would be a major nerf to Finn lead teams that aren’t full resistance (ex: using Wampa, who fits in well with his expose synergy and AOE attack). In GA/TW a lot of people don’t have enough resistance characters for a full 2nd resistance team, so they add in 1 or 2 additional characters.
The more I think about it, the best solution would probably be to change C3P0's unique so that it adds something other than Expose to Rebel/Ewok basics. Stagger would still be really good (potentially even better, for PVP), and raid bosses are already immune to that, so it solves the issue forever without nerfing Finn or making Phase 3 any more miserable than it already is.
I still think it's far more likely that we'll see Finn gimped somehow, though.
It's much easier and cheaper to keep existing content artificially difficult than it is to create fresh new content.
I don't care about future raid bosses. That's a long way off most likely. Deal with it then. Don't mess with stuff that is cool now. Make a small change to Traya when toppled. Done.