When do we have GL Rey buffed too?

Replies

  • Gamorrean
    2733 posts Member
    Liath wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    ejsteven wrote: »
    Looking at the arena meta report, Kylos will overtake Reys in a couple of weeks, an area where she's supposed to be stronger at, since Kylos completely dominates her in PvE space. If that doesn't say something, not sure what will.

    TB is PvE space.

    Yes, for both DS and LS

    The difference Rey makes in LSTB is much more significant than the difference Kylo makes in DSTB.

    And for what reason does that matter exactly?
    Kylo is a PvE beast for both Raids and TB while Rey is not.

    That “significant” difference you are talking about Rey, is only “significant” if you are in a whale guild - at least for the time being.

    Right now it’s better to go for Kylo, both in PvP and PvE.
  • TVF
    27386 posts Member
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    That “significant” difference you are talking about Rey, is only “significant” if you are in a whale guild

    That's a silly generalization.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Gamorrean
    2733 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    That “significant” difference you are talking about Rey, is only “significant” if you are in a whale guild

    That's a silly generalization.

    And why is that exactly? Remember I said for for the time being
  • TVF
    27386 posts Member
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    That “significant” difference you are talking about Rey, is only “significant” if you are in a whale guild

    That's a silly generalization.

    And why is that exactly? Remember I said for for the time being

    It's silly to claim you have to be in a whale guild to help your guild's performance in TB using Rey.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Gamorrean
    2733 posts Member
    2 LS TB vs 2 DS TB + Raids
    That’s enough for me to call Kylo the better PvE choice
  • Gamorrean
    2733 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    That “significant” difference you are talking about Rey, is only “significant” if you are in a whale guild

    That's a silly generalization.

    And why is that exactly? Remember I said for for the time being

    It's silly to claim you have to be in a whale guild to help your guild's performance in TB using Rey.
    You forgot the word “significant”
    No need to take my words out of context please
  • TVF
    27386 posts Member
    edited July 2020
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    2 LS TB vs 2 DS TB + Raids
    That’s enough for me to call Kylo the better PvE choice

    We said TB, not PvE.

    No need to move the goalposts please.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF
    27386 posts Member
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    That “significant” difference you are talking about Rey, is only “significant” if you are in a whale guild

    That's a silly generalization.

    And why is that exactly? Remember I said for for the time being

    It's silly to claim you have to be in a whale guild to help your guild's performance in TB using Rey.
    You forgot the word “significant”
    No need to take my words out of context please

    Still silly. Maybe rethink your use of "whale."
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Liath
    5140 posts Member
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    ejsteven wrote: »
    Looking at the arena meta report, Kylos will overtake Reys in a couple of weeks, an area where she's supposed to be stronger at, since Kylos completely dominates her in PvE space. If that doesn't say something, not sure what will.

    TB is PvE space.

    Yes, for both DS and LS

    The difference Rey makes in LSTB is much more significant than the difference Kylo makes in DSTB.

    And for what reason does that matter exactly?
    Kylo is a PvE beast for both Raids and TB while Rey is not.

    That “significant” difference you are talking about Rey, is only “significant” if you are in a whale guild - at least for the time being.

    Right now it’s better to go for Kylo, both in PvP and PvE.

    It matters because it’s the context of the portion of the conversation to which I was responding.

    I have no idea what your definition of “whale guild” is but I’m guessing I would disagree with it. I think the difference is significant (in the context of TB, which is what I was discussing) for a large portion of people who are in a position to be going for a GL at all. Most people I would consider whales probably already have both GLs and this issue is irrelevant for them.
  • Gamorrean
    2733 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    2 LS TB vs 2 DS TB + Raids
    That’s enough for me to call Kylo the better PvE choice

    We said TB, not PvE.

    No need to move the goalposts please.

    What do you mean by that? Isn’t TB PvE?


    TVF wrote: »
    ejsteven wrote: »
    Looking at the arena meta report, Kylos will overtake Reys in a couple of weeks, an area where she's supposed to be stronger at, since Kylos completely dominates her in PvE space. If that doesn't say something, not sure what will.

    TB is PvE space.

  • TVF
    27386 posts Member
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    2 LS TB vs 2 DS TB + Raids
    That’s enough for me to call Kylo the better PvE choice

    We said TB, not PvE.

    No need to move the goalposts please.

    What do you mean by that? Isn’t TB PvE?


    TVF wrote: »
    ejsteven wrote: »
    Looking at the arena meta report, Kylos will overtake Reys in a couple of weeks, an area where she's supposed to be stronger at, since Kylos completely dominates her in PvE space. If that doesn't say something, not sure what will.

    TB is PvE space.

    Yes and if you read the quote you'll see it says Kylo completely dominates PvE space. He doesn't. He dominates raids. She's way more useful for TB. Shrug.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Gamorrean
    2733 posts Member
    And I didn’t quote anyone so what you said is irrelevant
    It’s just my opinion
  • TVF
    27386 posts Member
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    And I didn’t quote anyone so what you said is irrelevant
    It’s just my opinion

    I said "the quote" which you just quoted above. This is getting ridiculous and is clearly pointless to continue.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Gamorrean
    2733 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    And I didn’t quote anyone so what you said is irrelevant
    It’s just my opinion

    I said "the quote" which you just quoted above. This is getting ridiculous and is clearly pointless to continue.
    Still don’t understand lol

    Which quote exactly are you talking about?
  • Why buff Rey? It makes no sense she’s already top 3 if not top 2 in the meta
  • Why buff Rey? It makes no sense she’s already top 3 if not top 2 in the meta

    Couldn't agree more. If only everyone else could understand this...
  • Gamorrean
    2733 posts Member
    Why buff Rey? It makes no sense she’s already top 3 if not top 2 in the meta
    Would it be unfair to buff Rey’s resistance synergy against Kylo, so her requirements seems satisfying just like her counterpart?
  • Gamorrean wrote: »
    Why buff Rey? It makes no sense she’s already top 3 if not top 2 in the meta
    Would it be unfair to buff Rey’s resistance synergy against Kylo, so her requirements seems satisfying just like her counterpart?

    No it wouldn’t, but if that would be the case then every faction would need a buff to keep them from being buried by 2 teams and able to compete as well
  • Mirkraag
    458 posts Member
    Kylo users will never said that the current balance between gl is bad.

    This is a non ending debate.

    Rey is second, behind Kylo, and that is not fair as they were sold as equal legends.

    Period. No matter what Kylo users say. CG fools Rey users by buffing kylo out of nowhere just to force people to go for Kylo now.

    Simple, ugly but the truth
  • Gamorrean
    2733 posts Member
    Gamorrean wrote: »
    Why buff Rey? It makes no sense she’s already top 3 if not top 2 in the meta
    Would it be unfair to buff Rey’s resistance synergy against Kylo, so her requirements seems satisfying just like her counterpart?

    No it wouldn’t, but if that would be the case then every faction would need a buff to keep them from being buried by 2 teams and able to compete as well

    Not necessarily if the resistance buffs are to balance out her viability against Kylo only
  • Nihion
    3138 posts Member
    Slaveen wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    NataPda wrote: »
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Dmitry_M81 wrote: »
    1omwokr8zgfy.jpg
    And how might that be?

    Is Rey not the majority of the number one and top ten arena leads, and a larger share of the top 100 than Kylo? Is Rey not able to soundly defeat almost anything in the game? Can you somehow fit more than a fraction of a percent of the playerbase in the top fraction of a percent of the leaderboard?

    What is it that you disagree with?

    Just try to understand simple things
    1. Rey can't defeat SLKR without GAS, JKR, WAT/Hoda and GK. That toons are definitely not resistance. But SLKR is strong with FO team. However, Rey can lose in offence even with this toons.
    2. If SLKR is using separatists or SE, Rey almost can't beat this team at all. While SLKR easily wipes out all Reys.
    3. We all remember that both GLs were represented as equal at least on arena. They had pretty solid requirements, probably it was harder to get Rey than Kylo. So why is she only second?
    4. I don't know about your top 10, but I see more Kylos in mine. People who started farming GLs later, went for Kylo. So number or SLKR is growing day by day.

    Evidence that they were ever claimed by CG to be equals in arena?

    The story goes like this:
    The GL’s come out, and all the you tubers think Rey is god tier, Kylo... sub par. So the people waiting to spend put everything in Rey, who then, surprise surprise, was actually worse than Kylo. That’s the only reason this thread exists. YaeVizsla didn’t say that they could beat Rey or that Rey was top ten in their arena. Only that Rey is more popular than Kylo, and can beat almost every team comp in the game. Those are the facts, and your post didn’t refute them.

    You leave out some crucial details in your story:

    Initially, Rey WAS the better PvP toon. SLKR users accepted this because he was vastly better for PvE purposes and had greater long-term potential. SLKR wasn't too far behind Rey in PvP either - it was basically like how things are between the 2 GLs now, except Rey was the clearly superior PvP GL and SLKR was the one who it was somewhat RNG dependent to beat Rey.

    Then CG decided to buff SLKR - buffs primarily tailored towards his PvP utility - not once, not twice, but at least three times (maybe four?). It wasn't "surprise, surprise" like you describe it. It was a very intentional move on CG's part, AFTER a huge portion of the player base had committed to Rey, primarily because of her edge in PvP. That edge is now completely gone.

    Take your fake news elsewhere. Give us all the facts, not just the ones that support your narrative.

    Fake news... okay.

    I don’t know where you’re getting four buffs from, but sure we’ll go with that. You don’t know why they buffed Kylo, but let’s say it’s CG’s intention to disturb a portion of players. Now let’s go back to the story:
    Rey is better than Kylo, so everyone gets Rey. Then CG says “hahahahaha, they fell for our royal scheme,” and they buff Kylo four, maybe five times. Things are now looking good for Kylo users, and Rey users not so much. Rey is now completely second to Kylo, who has a good Raid and Arena presence.

    That seems to be the story of the “buff Rey” people. Which is fine. But as YaeVizsla pointed out, Rey is still the top presence in arena, even though it’s claimed that somehow she’s useless against Kylo (and don’t give me that “only with the top five toons in the game,” we should all know that CG intended for some interesting team comps with these characters). She was a still more useful in TB, and while Kylo can still solo HSTR, people have been complaining about those rewards for centuries.

    It’s clear that Rey is still worth her money (maybe all those relic characters, for both of them it’s rather ridiculous). People without a galactic legend can hardly beat either one, and yeah, they can do it with Darth Vader, but you should probably still have your Vader to keep your lead. Counters exist, even for Kylo. Rey, without a buff, even if we decide she isn’t worth her salt, is still the second best character in the game, and even though you might be mad, it doesn’t mean anyone who went for Rey is going to quit, because they still have Rey.
  • Starslayer
    575 posts Member
    edited July 2020
    Buffing Rey could be very tricky for balance issues. However, buffing Res (or just Rey with Res) might be doable without jeopardizing Arena's balance, and would allow Rey+Res and Kylo+FO to beat each other with no sweat, which would be just fair (especially for GA and TW). Right now GL Res can beat GL FO, but with sweat involved.

    This "BuffRes" theory has been discussed already, but it's a 14 pages thread. Let's say it again now and then.
    Post edited by Starslayer on
  • YaeVizsla
    3448 posts Member
    Slaveen wrote: »
    It has been stated a thousand times in this thread that the main reason there are more Reys than SLKRs currently is because vastly more people went for her after their initial kit reveals. If you're F2P, GLs are like a 6 month or longer farm. SLKR got his second or third buff about 2 months ago. So all those guys who were 2-5 months along in their Rey farms didn't just abandon ship at that point. That's a huge gear commitment to just abandon.
    Come talk to me about the META report 4 months from now. I'm willing to bet it will VASTLY favor SLKR over Rey. Until then, it's just heresy.
    Also having been stated a thousand times in this thread is the fact that the biggest problem with Rey is NOT the arena problem. The biggest problem with Rey is the GAC and TW problem where you need GAS to lead your 501st team, GK to tank for your Padme team, etc. Meanwhile, SLKR gets to use his best team with full FO (and toons you had to gear to get him in the first place, no less).
    I realize you were tagged in this thread unprompted and against your will so you felt obligated to contribute your two cents. However, if you're not going to read the entire thread to ensure you can meaningfully contribute to the discussion, perhaps its best just not to post. Shame on whoever tagged you.
    And that continues to be an inane point.

    When the kits were announced, some people went for Kylo, some people went for Rey. That more people have Rey is fairly arbitrary. If Kylo were firmly and definitively better than Rey for PvP to the point where Rey cannot reasonably compete, then the people who went for Kylo would have taken the dominant portion of the number one and top ten spots, and Rey would be more prevalent in the top hundred due to weight of numbers.

    But that weight of numbers does not secure the majority of number one slots across all shards.

    Also, looking at player data on swgoh.gg, there are 11,133 Reys across all registered users. There are 9,364 Kylos. That is within twenty percent. That isn't much. The number of G13 Reys and Kylos are similarly close. All of both units' abilities are well over 90% zeta'd. The only thing I cannot check is the number of ultimate abilities, but in every verifiable way, the numbers on both units are close. If recent changes had put Kylo at a definitive advantage, he would have firmly overtaken Rey by now.

    We have seen meta shifts where one unit or team gains a large arena advantage. It's usually a literally overnight shift. A small group that has the advantaged unit immediately overtakes a large group that has the old unit. Your assertion that the only reason Rey is outperforming Kylo in arena right now is the number of people who have her is not reasonable and contradicts all available data.

    If Kylo is at the advantage in arena right now, it is to such a modest and reasonable degree that it is not reflected in the data in any dominant and obvious manner. If it was stated a thousant times in this thread, then it has been unreasonable a thousand times and continues to be unreasonable.

    As to GAC/TW performance, Rey leading a Resistance team is still sufficient to defeat almost anything in the game, even if that "almost" does not reasonably include Kylo led First Order. It is also speaks less to the status of Rey and more to the status of Resistance as a coherent faction. Something that can be more readily addressed going forward with the addition of other Resistance units rather than modifications to Rey herself. While she is less convenient, she is still easily among the most powerful tools available in the mode. It's a marginal distinction being blown out of proportion once again.
    Still not a he.
  • Daishi
    715 posts Member
    So let's simplify this. We got people talking meta report and this data and that data. Lemme ask a simple question.

    If an old player reactivated a day one account this game that hadn't been played in years and, and had $3000 to spend to whale for one of the GLs, which should he go for?

    1: The GL who's requirements form his top team and can give top rewards in HSTR and getting a 4/4 in every phase of a territory battle?

    2: The GL who's requirements to unlock are not used in her arena team, and can do 10M-15M in HSTR? The GL that in order to compete with the SLKR users needs to also unlock GS (which means unlocking padme), JKR, JKL (who's needed to reliably beat SLKR with Rey), along with either WAT, Hoda, or GK.

    So to form the top arena team for SLKR it requires his 13 characters needed to unlock, to form Rey's arena team that can compete you need 5 separatists to unlock padme, you'll need Shaak, Ahsoka, Gk, JKA, 3p0 (need 5 ewoks to get him), asajj, and let's assume you used the same 5 separatists to unlock padme as you needed for GS. Oh and you need to invest in the ships for GS. You also need the 5 old republic to unlock Revan.

    So for a new or returning player to form an arena team to compete with the SLKR team, they'll need to farm and gear a total of 5 seperatists, 5 ewoks, 5 GR, 5 OR, several ships, plus the actual team of 4 that goes with Rey, along with her 13 required characters.

    So, form a SLKR team by farming and gearing 13 characters that can solo almost anything, solo HSTR, and hold well on defense or offense in arena?

    OR

    Form a a Rey team that can (kinda) compete in arena by farming and gearing a total of 38 characters and 5 ships? Oh and she won't be able to solo HSTR. If you want that team to really compete in arena tho you'll also need JKL, so go ahead and add another 6-10 character/ships to that total.. or more if you include the BH and their ships required to unlock the falcon.


    I know if I had a that choice, no way in hades I'd go for Rey first knowing all that.
  • Nihion
    3138 posts Member
    That situation is heavily tailored so that it looks like a clear choice. Nice try.
  • YaeVizsla
    3448 posts Member
    A returning player who's been gone for years is a nonsense comparison.

    A player who has been active the whole time likely has most of the key components well outfitted and is working toward those high profile units.

    Going back to the meta report, what is the number one complete squad composition right now?

    Rey, GK, JKR, GAS, Wat. Number two is Kylo FO. Number three is Rey, GK, JKR, GAS, Hoda. JKL doesn't show up until number seven.

    Wat is something of a stretch right now, but people are demonstrably doing very well without. The Rey, GK, JKR, GAS, Hoda lineup is a set of units that players who've been at this for a while already have, who are already high priority chase units, and which people have already built up significantly.

    GK is an all time all star who has always been a fantastic return on investment. JKR has been one of the most important units in the game for over a year. Hoda has long been one of the best plug and play units ever. And GAS has been a monster since his release. None of them are unreasonable expectations for an established player to have, and to have built up.

    Also, that argument is still predicated on marginal differences. One unit arguably being slightly worse than the other in certain contexts is no big deal. I'm reminded of the old D&D 4e arguments over an unbalanced feat that effectively gave you a +1 to hit.
    Still not a he.
  • YaeVizsla wrote: »
    As to GAC/TW performance, Rey leading a Resistance team is still sufficient to defeat almost anything in the game, even if that "almost" does not reasonably include Kylo led First Order. It is also speaks less to the status of Rey and more to the status of Resistance as a coherent faction. Something that can be more readily addressed going forward with the addition of other Resistance units rather than modifications to Rey herself. While she is less convenient, she is still easily among the most powerful tools available in the mode. It's a marginal distinction being blown out of proportion once again.

    That 'almost' is important imo. And GLs being the hardest teams to beat, I don't find it so marginal.
    As they're both the hardest to obtain units, and they both have been released at the same time, both being leaders of their own rival faction (even if they're tailored to be more plug and play, which is good imo), it's not unreasonnable to expect that one could beat the other reliably using his/her faction, that you invested in heavily in order to unlock them. It's not something that I feel CG owes to anyone, because they didn't promise anything, but it seems just fair.

    (The addition of new Resistance units to address the status of Resistance, although totally coherent, would not change this particular balance issue; you would then need to gear up more characters than Kylo to be able to compete against your rival GL.)


  • Daishi
    715 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    That situation is heavily tailored so that it looks like a clear choice. Nice try.

    OK, same situation but 2 new players who both plan to whale on a GL. One whales for SLKR and one for Rey. Which spends less money to get an effective arena team? Cause the rey user ain't gonna get #1 as long as an SLKR user shares that shard until they also farm up 40ish other characters
  • Slaveen
    478 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    That situation is heavily tailored so that it looks like a clear choice. Nice try.

    Even if you are not a returning player, but someone who has not started farming for either Rey or SLKR yet, the choice is painstakingly obvious - if you don't go for SLKR, you are a complete and utter fool.

    Sure, throw a bunch of data at us from the META report, scream and holler, but at the end of the day - it IS a clear choice whether you want to admit it or not.

    I'd go so far as to say that once someone unlocks SLKR, it might even make more sense for them to go for JKLS BEFORE Rey, given the fact that you gear much better toons to get him for less resources and that he can beat both GLs. I would of course, advise them to go for Rey next. Again, the JKLS before Rey thing is a maybe - based on their roster, their guild's performance in LSGTB, among other things... but the fact remains that for some, I'd even recommend going for JKLS before Rey once they get SLKR... That's how skewed things are currently in SLKR's favor over Rey.

  • Slaveen wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    That situation is heavily tailored so that it looks like a clear choice. Nice try.

    Even if you are not a returning player, but someone who has not started farming for either Rey or SLKR yet, the choice is painstakingly obvious - if you don't go for SLKR, you are a complete and utter fool.

    Sure, throw a bunch of data at us from the META report, scream and holler, but at the end of the day - it IS a clear choice whether you want to admit it or not.

    I'd go so far as to say that once someone unlocks SLKR, it might even make more sense for them to go for JKLS BEFORE Rey, given the fact that you gear much better toons to get him for less resources and that he can beat both GLs. I would of course, advise them to go for Rey next. Again, the JKLS before Rey thing is a maybe - based on their roster, their guild's performance in LSGTB, among other things... but the fact remains that for some, I'd even recommend going for JKLS before Rey once they get SLKR... That's how skewed things are currently in SLKR's favor over Rey.
    “My opinion is more valid than that of others”.
Sign In or Register to comment.