It’s interesting to look at this chart and compare an old marquee like Bossk to a new one like Piett while ignoring kyrotech. Even the old gear crunch gear is higher now than before.
I would think they are acutely aware of the gear requirements and velocity they give them out for free. So I am not exactly sure what the point of this post is.
It's been pretty clear for 5 years of this games existence that the only way they make money is by scaling the requirements of gear/content to force you to either be patient or spend.
The point of the post is to show the increasing gear necessity for new characters (GL’s for example). Then add in the gear requirements to even unlock them with other characters and you’ll see that the demand for them has skyrocketed while the income has increased by a slow trickle.
The point is to highlight that as gear level has progressed and power creep massively expanded, the bottleneck should move too. There should be enough gear income in game for people to have zero issues pushing any too to G12 and then bottlenecking there. It is incredibly rare that a toon at G11 or G8 is useful (hello DN). Even the mighty GL’s get obliterated at that tier but are surprisingly more survivable once they hit g12.
That’s the point, and the devs coming on here to discuss why there hasn’t been a significant increase like they promised in Q&A’s last year to make it easy to get to G12 is a question that needs to be answered.
Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.
This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.
IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.
A worthy contribution to the forums.
Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.
I don’t think we should include the assault battle challenge tiers as an extra increase in gear income unless we first subtract the increased gear requirements needed to get there. There’s a few of those assault battles that I don’t participate in challenge tiers simply because it’s not beneficial to relic my toons (like Phoenix or NS) simply for the increase in gear income.
Q: What makes relic amplifiers different from gearing and will it make the gear crunch worse?
A: 154M - See above Specifically, that now, while some relic levels will be gated behind difficult-to-acquire gear, it will now be a list of gear, rather than a single piece of gear. Once Relics is out in the wild and we begin to see more players spill into progressing through the system, we'll continue to take steps like the recent changes to daily activities, around inflowing lower-tier gear and making it easier for players to get to G12/G13.
I don’t see how it makes it easy to get to G13 and relic levels when you still need to farm the G12 starter gear, the G12+gear, the G12 finishers, the lower tier gear for finishers (guns, cuffs, mk5 callers), and then relic material from cantina and also gear for the scavenger for relic pieces as well. Especially considering the GL’s have never required anyone lower than R3, many needing to be R5 and above actually.
Please remind me again why the devs shouldn’t do what they said they were going to do?
Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.
This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.
IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.
A worthy contribution to the forums.
Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.
OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.
IMO I agree there is a crunch. However I also dont think we need to move the bottleneck. What I believe would be a better solution is to just reduce the amount of kyrotech and any other high demand gear needed to advance. Instead of 100 kyro for a finisher for instance, it could be reduced to 75 or 50. Same with some of the other high demand items. I think the amounts needed vs ability to acquire is skewed is all. If they went through and just lowered the amounts in certain areas we are seeing a huge imbalance i believe this would solve both issues without upsetting the game too much. I would also add this would not be a retroactive fix. It would be a solution for any toons released going forward. That way there is no need for gear refunds on characters and such. This is not going to be what new players want as a solution but I believe it would be the most fair for everyone in the game while still alleviating the crunch somewhat. I would also add that the daily challenges need to be revamped.
Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.
This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.
IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.
A worthy contribution to the forums.
Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.
OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.
GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.
I don’t see how it makes it easy to get to G13 and relic levels when you still need to farm the G12 starter gear, the G12+gear, the G12 finishers, the lower tier gear for finishers (guns, cuffs, mk5 callers), and then relic material from cantina and also gear for the scavenger for relic pieces as well. Especially considering the GL’s have never required anyone lower than R3, many needing to be R5 and above actually.
Add up all the gear you need now to take all the requirements to G13, and then subtract out every single carb, eyeball, stun gun, stun cuff, etc. You will see how much easier it becomes.
As for your question, everyone understands that the "kyro will make the lower gear crunch lessened" statement was a lie, and I've said so on many occasions. But I don't care what the devs say, I care about reality, and the reality is that GLs should be hard to acquire and making the sub G12 gear an insignificant grind makes those GLs easier to get.
IMO I agree there is a crunch. However I also dont think we need to move the bottleneck. What I believe would be a better solution is to just reduce the amount of kyrotech and any other gear needed to advance. Instead of 100 for a finisher it could eb reduced to 75 or 50. Same with some of the other high demand items. I think the amounts needed vs ability to acquire is skewed is all.
They won’t change the gear in new characters though. It would be easier to simply add a new tier to daily challenges rewarding eyeball components, stun cuffs and stun guns. Let those numbers be 3-5 per stage sim. That would up the income by 15-25 per challenge occurrence. 3 times a week means 45-75 salvage which is similar to the current drops for carbantis in those daily challenges. That’s maybe one extra full gun a week. Or one full cuff a week. You can even adjust the number down a bit or make the 5 salvage drop as rare as the 7 carbantis in the current nodes. That would easily make the crunch better, still demand resource management and keep a bottle neck for the studios bottom line.
Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.
This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.
IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.
A worthy contribution to the forums.
Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.
I don’t think we should include the assault battle challenge tiers as an extra increase in gear income unless we first subtract the increased gear requirements needed to get there. There’s a few of those assault battles that I don’t participate in challenge tiers simply because it’s not beneficial to relic my toons (like Phoenix or NS) simply for the increase in gear income.
Getting kyro and finishers from ABs is very easy and absolutely counts.
IMO I agree there is a crunch. However I also dont think we need to move the bottleneck. What I believe would be a better solution is to just reduce the amount of kyrotech and any other gear needed to advance. Instead of 100 for a finisher it could eb reduced to 75 or 50. Same with some of the other high demand items. I think the amounts needed vs ability to acquire is skewed is all.
They won’t change the gear in new characters though. It would be easier to simply add a new tier to daily challenges rewarding eyeball components, stun cuffs and stun guns. Let those numbers be 3-5 per stage sim. That would up the income by 15-25 per challenge occurrence. 3 times a week means 45-75 salvage which is similar to the current drops for carbantis in those daily challenges. That’s maybe one extra full gun a week. Or one full cuff a week. You can even adjust the number down a bit or make the 5 salvage drop as rare as the 7 carbantis in the current nodes. That would easily make the crunch better, still demand resource management and keep a bottle neck for the studios bottom line.
When i say "new toons" im referring to any upcoming that are unreleased. Not already released.
I don’t see how it makes it easy to get to G13 and relic levels when you still need to farm the G12 starter gear, the G12+gear, the G12 finishers, the lower tier gear for finishers (guns, cuffs, mk5 callers), and then relic material from cantina and also gear for the scavenger for relic pieces as well. Especially considering the GL’s have never required anyone lower than R3, many needing to be R5 and above actually.
Add up all the gear you need now to take all the requirements to G13, and then subtract out every single carb, eyeball, stun gun, stun cuff, etc. You will see how much easier it becomes.
As for your question, everyone understands that the "kyro will make the lower gear crunch lessened" statement was a lie, and I've said so on many occasions. But I don't care what the devs say, I care about reality, and the reality is that GLs should be hard to acquire and making the sub G12 gear an insignificant grind makes those GLs easier to get.
So you mean to tell me that requiring 14 characters (at minimum) at relic level is too easy for a GL? Not to mention some of those reqs are legendary or similar characters that have their own Gear/relic requirements as well (JKL, GAS say hello). Pair that with the standard for even legendary toons needing relics now themselves and you’re going to tell me that it’s still too easy if G12 is easy/easier to get to?
For example, Old Ben needs 90 pieces of G12 base gear and 120 of its compliment to fill his first 3 slots at G12.
Then his 4 and 5 slots need 280 of specific G12+ pieces, another 80 of the base g12 compliment piece (medpacs for example) and 100 pieces of the in demand gear like cuffs, carbantis etc.
Finally his last slot, the finisher requires 50 pieces of the finisher salvage, another 50 pieces of g12+ Gear, 100 pieces of kyro and another 50 of lower tier gear (mk5 callers in his case).
And to you, that’s easy??? And we’ve only now just gotten him to g13, next is to relic him out which requires even more of the above gear for specific salvage and other materials from farming on cantina.
IMO I agree there is a crunch. However I also dont think we need to move the bottleneck. What I believe would be a better solution is to just reduce the amount of kyrotech and any other gear needed to advance. Instead of 100 for a finisher it could eb reduced to 75 or 50. Same with some of the other high demand items. I think the amounts needed vs ability to acquire is skewed is all.
They won’t change the gear in new characters though. It would be easier to simply add a new tier to daily challenges rewarding eyeball components, stun cuffs and stun guns. Let those numbers be 3-5 per stage sim. That would up the income by 15-25 per challenge occurrence. 3 times a week means 45-75 salvage which is similar to the current drops for carbantis in those daily challenges. That’s maybe one extra full gun a week. Or one full cuff a week. You can even adjust the number down a bit or make the 5 salvage drop as rare as the 7 carbantis in the current nodes. That would easily make the crunch better, still demand resource management and keep a bottle neck for the studios bottom line.
When i say "new toons" im referring to any upcoming that are unreleased. Not already released.
Even then the changes to tiers would be immensely easier than redoing gear kits and dealing with blowback of those who invested tons of gear into the old toons at higher rates.
Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.
This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.
IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.
A worthy contribution to the forums.
Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.
I don’t think we should include the assault battle challenge tiers as an extra increase in gear income unless we first subtract the increased gear requirements needed to get there. There’s a few of those assault battles that I don’t participate in challenge tiers simply because it’s not beneficial to relic my toons (like Phoenix or NS) simply for the increase in gear income.
Getting kyro and finishers from ABs is very easy and absolutely counts.
I never said it didn’t count. I just said it’s hidden behind a gear gate. You can’t selectively pick incomes and outflows just to prove your point. Dropping 100 kyros, for instance, just to increase my income by 10 a month shows a different picture than just saying “income is increased.”
And differentially, challenge tiers are only easy if you already had the right toons geared prior to 2020.
IMO I agree there is a crunch. However I also dont think we need to move the bottleneck. What I believe would be a better solution is to just reduce the amount of kyrotech and any other gear needed to advance. Instead of 100 for a finisher it could eb reduced to 75 or 50. Same with some of the other high demand items. I think the amounts needed vs ability to acquire is skewed is all.
They won’t change the gear in new characters though. It would be easier to simply add a new tier to daily challenges rewarding eyeball components, stun cuffs and stun guns. Let those numbers be 3-5 per stage sim. That would up the income by 15-25 per challenge occurrence. 3 times a week means 45-75 salvage which is similar to the current drops for carbantis in those daily challenges. That’s maybe one extra full gun a week. Or one full cuff a week. You can even adjust the number down a bit or make the 5 salvage drop as rare as the 7 carbantis in the current nodes. That would easily make the crunch better, still demand resource management and keep a bottle neck for the studios bottom line.
When i say "new toons" im referring to any upcoming that are unreleased. Not already released.
Even then the changes to tiers would be immensely easier than redoing gear kits and dealing with blowback of those who invested tons of gear into the old toons at higher rates.
I dont know what you mean about redoing kits. We are talking about unreleased toons here. No redoing of kits would be needed. It seems you are confused about what i am suggesting so an example would be Moff Gideon. If/when he is released his kit will only need 3/4 or half of the high demand gear shown in these charts. Any character moving forward will also follow the same pattern. So there will be no redoing of past characters nor blowback from any investement by people. If anything adding more gear to challenges would result in blowback from people who spent money to buy this gear when there was a crunch. They would complain they wouldnt have bought the gear if there was more provided. So really the best case to avoid all of this is to just tackle future releases with the fix.
Q: What makes relic amplifiers different from gearing and will it make the gear crunch worse?
A: 154M - See above Specifically, that now, while some relic levels will be gated behind difficult-to-acquire gear, it will now be a list of gear, rather than a single piece of gear. Once Relics is out in the wild and we begin to see more players spill into progressing through the system, we'll continue to take steps like the recent changes to daily activities, around inflowing lower-tier gear and making it easier for players to get to G12/G13.
I don’t see how it makes it easy to get to G13 and relic levels when you still need to farm the G12 starter gear, the G12+gear, the G12 finishers, the lower tier gear for finishers (guns, cuffs, mk5 callers), and then relic material from cantina and also gear for the scavenger for relic pieces as well. Especially considering the GL’s have never required anyone lower than R3, many needing to be R5 and above actually.
Please remind me again why the devs shouldn’t do what they said they were going to do?
They did it already, and have confirmed as much. Primarily what they did was add kyro to the daily box.
Q: What makes relic amplifiers different from gearing and will it make the gear crunch worse?
A: 154M - See above Specifically, that now, while some relic levels will be gated behind difficult-to-acquire gear, it will now be a list of gear, rather than a single piece of gear. Once Relics is out in the wild and we begin to see more players spill into progressing through the system, we'll continue to take steps like the recent changes to daily activities, around inflowing lower-tier gear and making it easier for players to get to G12/G13.
I don’t see how it makes it easy to get to G13 and relic levels when you still need to farm the G12 starter gear, the G12+gear, the G12 finishers, the lower tier gear for finishers (guns, cuffs, mk5 callers), and then relic material from cantina and also gear for the scavenger for relic pieces as well. Especially considering the GL’s have never required anyone lower than R3, many needing to be R5 and above actually.
Please remind me again why the devs shouldn’t do what they said they were going to do?
They did it already, and have confirmed as much. Primarily what they did was add kyro to the daily box.
21 kyro’s a week. Of a random type. So that means that it would take over a month for one finisher piece, if you got lucky and only got one type of kyro.
Wooooo boy did they help or did they help!
Q: What makes relic amplifiers different from gearing and will it make the gear crunch worse?
A: 154M - See above Specifically, that now, while some relic levels will be gated behind difficult-to-acquire gear, it will now be a list of gear, rather than a single piece of gear. Once Relics is out in the wild and we begin to see more players spill into progressing through the system, we'll continue to take steps like the recent changes to daily activities, around inflowing lower-tier gear and making it easier for players to get to G12/G13.
I don’t see how it makes it easy to get to G13 and relic levels when you still need to farm the G12 starter gear, the G12+gear, the G12 finishers, the lower tier gear for finishers (guns, cuffs, mk5 callers), and then relic material from cantina and also gear for the scavenger for relic pieces as well. Especially considering the GL’s have never required anyone lower than R3, many needing to be R5 and above actually.
Please remind me again why the devs shouldn’t do what they said they were going to do?
They did it already, and have confirmed as much. Primarily what they did was add kyro to the daily box.
21 kyro’s a week. Of a random type. So that means that it would take over a month for one finisher piece, if you got lucky and only got one type of kyro.
Wooooo boy did they help or did they help!
You can also buy them with GAC credits too. Its more like a finisher every 2-3 weeks if you use your currency correctly. You can buy 4 for 280 GAC points. That is all I personally spend my GAC points on is kyro.
I don’t see how it makes it easy to get to G13 and relic levels when you still need to farm the G12 starter gear, the G12+gear, the G12 finishers, the lower tier gear for finishers (guns, cuffs, mk5 callers), and then relic material from cantina and also gear for the scavenger for relic pieces as well. Especially considering the GL’s have never required anyone lower than R3, many needing to be R5 and above actually.
Add up all the gear you need now to take all the requirements to G13, and then subtract out every single carb, eyeball, stun gun, stun cuff, etc. You will see how much easier it becomes.
As for your question, everyone understands that the "kyro will make the lower gear crunch lessened" statement was a lie, and I've said so on many occasions. But I don't care what the devs say, I care about reality, and the reality is that GLs should be hard to acquire and making the sub G12 gear an insignificant grind makes those GLs easier to get.
So you mean to tell me that requiring 14 characters (at minimum) at relic level is too easy for a GL? Not to mention some of those reqs are legendary or similar characters that have their own Gear/relic requirements as well (JKL, GAS say hello). Pair that with the standard for even legendary toons needing relics now themselves and you’re going to tell me that it’s still too easy if G12 is easy/easier to get to?
For example, Old Ben needs 90 pieces of G12 base gear and 120 of its compliment to fill his first 3 slots at G12.
Then his 4 and 5 slots need 280 of specific G12+ pieces, another 80 of the base g12 compliment piece (medpacs for example) and 100 pieces of the in demand gear like cuffs, carbantis etc.
Finally his last slot, the finisher requires 50 pieces of the finisher salvage, another 50 pieces of g12+ Gear, 100 pieces of kyro and another 50 of lower tier gear (mk5 callers in his case).
And to you, that’s easy??? And we’ve only now just gotten him to g13, next is to relic him out which requires even more of the above gear for specific salvage and other materials from farming on cantina.
Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.
This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.
IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.
A worthy contribution to the forums.
Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.
I don’t think we should include the assault battle challenge tiers as an extra increase in gear income unless we first subtract the increased gear requirements needed to get there. There’s a few of those assault battles that I don’t participate in challenge tiers simply because it’s not beneficial to relic my toons (like Phoenix or NS) simply for the increase in gear income.
Getting kyro and finishers from ABs is very easy and absolutely counts.
I never said it didn’t count. I just said it’s hidden behind a gear gate.
Except it's not, because it can be obtained on most AB's with sub 13 toons. Rebel Roundup is a great example, you can easily beat CT1 with a mix of G11 and 12.
I don’t see how it makes it easy to get to G13 and relic levels when you still need to farm the G12 starter gear, the G12+gear, the G12 finishers, the lower tier gear for finishers (guns, cuffs, mk5 callers), and then relic material from cantina and also gear for the scavenger for relic pieces as well. Especially considering the GL’s have never required anyone lower than R3, many needing to be R5 and above actually.
Add up all the gear you need now to take all the requirements to G13, and then subtract out every single carb, eyeball, stun gun, stun cuff, etc. You will see how much easier it becomes.
As for your question, everyone understands that the "kyro will make the lower gear crunch lessened" statement was a lie, and I've said so on many occasions. But I don't care what the devs say, I care about reality, and the reality is that GLs should be hard to acquire and making the sub G12 gear an insignificant grind makes those GLs easier to get.
So you mean to tell me that requiring 14 characters (at minimum) at relic level is too easy for a GL? Not to mention some of those reqs are legendary or similar characters that have their own Gear/relic requirements as well (JKL, GAS say hello). Pair that with the standard for even legendary toons needing relics now themselves and you’re going to tell me that it’s still too easy if G12 is easy/easier to get to?
For example, Old Ben needs 90 pieces of G12 base gear and 120 of its compliment to fill his first 3 slots at G12.
Then his 4 and 5 slots need 280 of specific G12+ pieces, another 80 of the base g12 compliment piece (medpacs for example) and 100 pieces of the in demand gear like cuffs, carbantis etc.
Finally his last slot, the finisher requires 50 pieces of the finisher salvage, another 50 pieces of g12+ Gear, 100 pieces of kyro and another 50 of lower tier gear (mk5 callers in his case).
And to you, that’s easy??? And we’ve only now just gotten him to g13, next is to relic him out which requires even more of the above gear for specific salvage and other materials from farming on cantina.
I don’t see how it makes it easy to get to G13 and relic levels when you still need to farm the G12 starter gear, the G12+gear, the G12 finishers, the lower tier gear for finishers (guns, cuffs, mk5 callers), and then relic material from cantina and also gear for the scavenger for relic pieces as well. Especially considering the GL’s have never required anyone lower than R3, many needing to be R5 and above actually.
Add up all the gear you need now to take all the requirements to G13, and then subtract out every single carb, eyeball, stun gun, stun cuff, etc. You will see how much easier it becomes.
As for your question, everyone understands that the "kyro will make the lower gear crunch lessened" statement was a lie, and I've said so on many occasions. But I don't care what the devs say, I care about reality, and the reality is that GLs should be hard to acquire and making the sub G12 gear an insignificant grind makes those GLs easier to get.
So you mean to tell me that requiring 14 characters (at minimum) at relic level is too easy for a GL? Not to mention some of those reqs are legendary or similar characters that have their own Gear/relic requirements as well (JKL, GAS say hello). Pair that with the standard for even legendary toons needing relics now themselves and you’re going to tell me that it’s still too easy if G12 is easy/easier to get to?
For example, Old Ben needs 90 pieces of G12 base gear and 120 of its compliment to fill his first 3 slots at G12.
Then his 4 and 5 slots need 280 of specific G12+ pieces, another 80 of the base g12 compliment piece (medpacs for example) and 100 pieces of the in demand gear like cuffs, carbantis etc.
Finally his last slot, the finisher requires 50 pieces of the finisher salvage, another 50 pieces of g12+ Gear, 100 pieces of kyro and another 50 of lower tier gear (mk5 callers in his case).
And to you, that’s easy??? And we’ve only now just gotten him to g13, next is to relic him out which requires even more of the above gear for specific salvage and other materials from farming on cantina.
Making it easy to get everything to G12 makes it too easy to get all the GLs.
Except you said it would make it “too easy” which I just showed that even making G12 more readily attainable, it is not in fact too easy to get a GL.
It would be "too easy" in my opinion. That's subjective and if you want to disagree, fine.
It would be "easier" which I said in later posts, which is objective and absolutely cannot be argued. Though I'm sure you'll try because you always think CG is trying to make things miserable for you personally.
Q: What makes relic amplifiers different from gearing and will it make the gear crunch worse?
A: 154M - See above Specifically, that now, while some relic levels will be gated behind difficult-to-acquire gear, it will now be a list of gear, rather than a single piece of gear. Once Relics is out in the wild and we begin to see more players spill into progressing through the system, we'll continue to take steps like the recent changes to daily activities, around inflowing lower-tier gear and making it easier for players to get to G12/G13.
I don’t see how it makes it easy to get to G13 and relic levels when you still need to farm the G12 starter gear, the G12+gear, the G12 finishers, the lower tier gear for finishers (guns, cuffs, mk5 callers), and then relic material from cantina and also gear for the scavenger for relic pieces as well. Especially considering the GL’s have never required anyone lower than R3, many needing to be R5 and above actually.
Please remind me again why the devs shouldn’t do what they said they were going to do?
They did it already, and have confirmed as much. Primarily what they did was add kyro to the daily box.
21 kyro’s a week. Of a random type. So that means that it would take over a month for one finisher piece, if you got lucky and only got one type of kyro.
Wooooo boy did they help or did they help!
I didn't say I liked it, just that they have already done it. They never said we would enjoy what they did, or agree that it was actually helpful.
Tough to figure out. Assault Battles and some other events used to be two days, right?
They did, but that was before they added kyro and finishers. I don't miss two days of 4 dot mods and Teebo shards.
13 Teebo shards get you one batch of 6 stun gun salvage from shard store, though. The reduction is not insignificant, especially considering that most AB early tiers award quite a lot of extra shards.
Edit: Did some checking to provide some numbers, and 13 shards is incidentally what you roughly get from an "average" AB tier. So we basically lost 18 pieces of stun gun salvage per AB. If we consider stun guns and kyros as roughly equal, we are still better off, though not by that much. Plus, of course, the later tiers, but those are significantly harder to complete.
They did reduce AB from two days. But they also run all 6 each month now, whereas they used to run 3-4 a month.
But the net rewards per month for doing CT I is much better.
If you can do all 6 CT I, then you are getting 60 and 60 Kyrotech, 30 x finisher, plus zetas.
Add in 90 Kyrotech a month (roughly) for dailies, and TW/TB Kyrotech, and you are likely clearing 250 kyrotech a month for playing the game. Likely you can get two finishers for 13 a month for 'free' by doing raids and guild events, without spending money or even energy.
Now, not everyone can do all the Challenge Tiers, that is true. But that is why your roster grows over time. There were times when I couldn't even qualify for tier 2 (not challenge tier 2, just tier 2) for Assault Battles. Over time you natural develop your roster as you play and the Tiers will be doable. Well. challenge tier 1. Tier 2 and 3 get absurd for the ABs and some will be out of reach for ages.
Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.
This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.
IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.
A worthy contribution to the forums.
Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.
OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.
GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.
A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.
I don’t see how it makes it easy to get to G13 and relic levels when you still need to farm the G12 starter gear, the G12+gear, the G12 finishers, the lower tier gear for finishers (guns, cuffs, mk5 callers), and then relic material from cantina and also gear for the scavenger for relic pieces as well. Especially considering the GL’s have never required anyone lower than R3, many needing to be R5 and above actually.
Add up all the gear you need now to take all the requirements to G13, and then subtract out every single carb, eyeball, stun gun, stun cuff, etc. You will see how much easier it becomes.
As for your question, everyone understands that the "kyro will make the lower gear crunch lessened" statement was a lie, and I've said so on many occasions. But I don't care what the devs say, I care about reality, and the reality is that GLs should be hard to acquire and making the sub G12 gear an insignificant grind makes those GLs easier to get.
So you mean to tell me that requiring 14 characters (at minimum) at relic level is too easy for a GL? Not to mention some of those reqs are legendary or similar characters that have their own Gear/relic requirements as well (JKL, GAS say hello). Pair that with the standard for even legendary toons needing relics now themselves and you’re going to tell me that it’s still too easy if G12 is easy/easier to get to?
For example, Old Ben needs 90 pieces of G12 base gear and 120 of its compliment to fill his first 3 slots at G12.
Then his 4 and 5 slots need 280 of specific G12+ pieces, another 80 of the base g12 compliment piece (medpacs for example) and 100 pieces of the in demand gear like cuffs, carbantis etc.
Finally his last slot, the finisher requires 50 pieces of the finisher salvage, another 50 pieces of g12+ Gear, 100 pieces of kyro and another 50 of lower tier gear (mk5 callers in his case).
And to you, that’s easy??? And we’ve only now just gotten him to g13, next is to relic him out which requires even more of the above gear for specific salvage and other materials from farming on cantina.
Making it easy to get everything to G12 makes it too easy to get all the GLs.
Except you said it would make it “too easy” which I just showed that even making G12 more readily attainable, it is not in fact too easy to get a GL.
It would be "too easy" in my opinion. That's subjective and if you want to disagree, fine.
It would be "easier" which I said in later posts, which is objective and absolutely cannot be argued. Though I'm sure you'll try because you always think CG is trying to make things miserable for you personally.
And you personally think CG never does anything that is greedy or underhanded and always looks out for the best interest of its payers....ERrrrr players.
But I do appreciate the backtracking you did because it’s not too easy once you get to G12. It’s still a massive gear investment and that’s not really up for argument but knowing you...it will be.
Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.
This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.
IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.
A worthy contribution to the forums.
Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.
OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.
GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.
A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.
Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system, as well as hoping your game doesn’t crash mid battle. Still a lot of uncertainty that comes with chance TBH
I don’t see how it makes it easy to get to G13 and relic levels when you still need to farm the G12 starter gear, the G12+gear, the G12 finishers, the lower tier gear for finishers (guns, cuffs, mk5 callers), and then relic material from cantina and also gear for the scavenger for relic pieces as well. Especially considering the GL’s have never required anyone lower than R3, many needing to be R5 and above actually.
Add up all the gear you need now to take all the requirements to G13, and then subtract out every single carb, eyeball, stun gun, stun cuff, etc. You will see how much easier it becomes.
As for your question, everyone understands that the "kyro will make the lower gear crunch lessened" statement was a lie, and I've said so on many occasions. But I don't care what the devs say, I care about reality, and the reality is that GLs should be hard to acquire and making the sub G12 gear an insignificant grind makes those GLs easier to get.
So you mean to tell me that requiring 14 characters (at minimum) at relic level is too easy for a GL? Not to mention some of those reqs are legendary or similar characters that have their own Gear/relic requirements as well (JKL, GAS say hello). Pair that with the standard for even legendary toons needing relics now themselves and you’re going to tell me that it’s still too easy if G12 is easy/easier to get to?
For example, Old Ben needs 90 pieces of G12 base gear and 120 of its compliment to fill his first 3 slots at G12.
Then his 4 and 5 slots need 280 of specific G12+ pieces, another 80 of the base g12 compliment piece (medpacs for example) and 100 pieces of the in demand gear like cuffs, carbantis etc.
Finally his last slot, the finisher requires 50 pieces of the finisher salvage, another 50 pieces of g12+ Gear, 100 pieces of kyro and another 50 of lower tier gear (mk5 callers in his case).
And to you, that’s easy??? And we’ve only now just gotten him to g13, next is to relic him out which requires even more of the above gear for specific salvage and other materials from farming on cantina.
Making it easy to get everything to G12 makes it too easy to get all the GLs.
Except you said it would make it “too easy” which I just showed that even making G12 more readily attainable, it is not in fact too easy to get a GL.
It would be "too easy" in my opinion. That's subjective and if you want to disagree, fine.
It would be "easier" which I said in later posts, which is objective and absolutely cannot be argued. Though I'm sure you'll try because you always think CG is trying to make things miserable for you personally.
And you personally think CG never does anything that is greedy or underhanded and always looks out for the best interest of its payers....ERrrrr players.
But I do appreciate the backtracking you did because it’s not too easy once you get to G12. It’s still a massive gear investment and that’s not really up for argument but knowing you...it will be.
1) I have said so on many occasions. In fact in this very thread. "Kyro easing the gear crunch was a lie."
2) Yes it's a massive gear investment past G12. It's even more massiver including everything needed to get there and taking all that out of the equation makes it less massive. No thanks.
Is there a similar plot for income? Not that I would expect it to balance out, but it would be nice to see the mostly flat line side by side with this.
This. The gear income has increased as well as the gear requirements. The question is whether the balance/proportions between income and requirements has changed.
IIRC, the last significant increase in income was Geo TB and kyros in the daily reward, but I'm too lazy to look up when that happened, not to mention putting some actual numbers on it.
A worthy contribution to the forums.
Kyros are part of TW rewards now too, and the Assault Battles extra tiers have also contributed to the increase.
OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.
GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.
A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.
Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system
Replies
The point of the post is to show the increasing gear necessity for new characters (GL’s for example). Then add in the gear requirements to even unlock them with other characters and you’ll see that the demand for them has skyrocketed while the income has increased by a slow trickle.
The point is to highlight that as gear level has progressed and power creep massively expanded, the bottleneck should move too. There should be enough gear income in game for people to have zero issues pushing any too to G12 and then bottlenecking there. It is incredibly rare that a toon at G11 or G8 is useful (hello DN). Even the mighty GL’s get obliterated at that tier but are surprisingly more survivable once they hit g12.
That’s the point, and the devs coming on here to discuss why there hasn’t been a significant increase like they promised in Q&A’s last year to make it easy to get to G12 is a question that needs to be answered.
I don’t think we should include the assault battle challenge tiers as an extra increase in gear income unless we first subtract the increased gear requirements needed to get there. There’s a few of those assault battles that I don’t participate in challenge tiers simply because it’s not beneficial to relic my toons (like Phoenix or NS) simply for the increase in gear income.
Well that’s not what Cyanides said was going to happen per the September Q&A last year.
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/213179/developer-q-a-9-5/p1
Q: What makes relic amplifiers different from gearing and will it make the gear crunch worse?
A: 154M - See above Specifically, that now, while some relic levels will be gated behind difficult-to-acquire gear, it will now be a list of gear, rather than a single piece of gear. Once Relics is out in the wild and we begin to see more players spill into progressing through the system, we'll continue to take steps like the recent changes to daily activities, around inflowing lower-tier gear and making it easier for players to get to G12/G13.
I don’t see how it makes it easy to get to G13 and relic levels when you still need to farm the G12 starter gear, the G12+gear, the G12 finishers, the lower tier gear for finishers (guns, cuffs, mk5 callers), and then relic material from cantina and also gear for the scavenger for relic pieces as well. Especially considering the GL’s have never required anyone lower than R3, many needing to be R5 and above actually.
Please remind me again why the devs shouldn’t do what they said they were going to do?
OP's graph goes back to 2018 so fleet battles and GA/GAC also increased gear income.
GAC’s increased income?? Barely. Not to mention the rewards are based upon a broken matchmaking system as well as a scarce amount of the currency needed in the shop for a limited selection.
Add up all the gear you need now to take all the requirements to G13, and then subtract out every single carb, eyeball, stun gun, stun cuff, etc. You will see how much easier it becomes.
As for your question, everyone understands that the "kyro will make the lower gear crunch lessened" statement was a lie, and I've said so on many occasions. But I don't care what the devs say, I care about reality, and the reality is that GLs should be hard to acquire and making the sub G12 gear an insignificant grind makes those GLs easier to get.
They won’t change the gear in new characters though. It would be easier to simply add a new tier to daily challenges rewarding eyeball components, stun cuffs and stun guns. Let those numbers be 3-5 per stage sim. That would up the income by 15-25 per challenge occurrence. 3 times a week means 45-75 salvage which is similar to the current drops for carbantis in those daily challenges. That’s maybe one extra full gun a week. Or one full cuff a week. You can even adjust the number down a bit or make the 5 salvage drop as rare as the 7 carbantis in the current nodes. That would easily make the crunch better, still demand resource management and keep a bottle neck for the studios bottom line.
Getting kyro and finishers from ABs is very easy and absolutely counts.
When i say "new toons" im referring to any upcoming that are unreleased. Not already released.
So you mean to tell me that requiring 14 characters (at minimum) at relic level is too easy for a GL? Not to mention some of those reqs are legendary or similar characters that have their own Gear/relic requirements as well (JKL, GAS say hello). Pair that with the standard for even legendary toons needing relics now themselves and you’re going to tell me that it’s still too easy if G12 is easy/easier to get to?
For example, Old Ben needs 90 pieces of G12 base gear and 120 of its compliment to fill his first 3 slots at G12.
Then his 4 and 5 slots need 280 of specific G12+ pieces, another 80 of the base g12 compliment piece (medpacs for example) and 100 pieces of the in demand gear like cuffs, carbantis etc.
Finally his last slot, the finisher requires 50 pieces of the finisher salvage, another 50 pieces of g12+ Gear, 100 pieces of kyro and another 50 of lower tier gear (mk5 callers in his case).
And to you, that’s easy??? And we’ve only now just gotten him to g13, next is to relic him out which requires even more of the above gear for specific salvage and other materials from farming on cantina.
One down, 13 to go. Phew that was easy!
Even then the changes to tiers would be immensely easier than redoing gear kits and dealing with blowback of those who invested tons of gear into the old toons at higher rates.
I never said it didn’t count. I just said it’s hidden behind a gear gate. You can’t selectively pick incomes and outflows just to prove your point. Dropping 100 kyros, for instance, just to increase my income by 10 a month shows a different picture than just saying “income is increased.”
And differentially, challenge tiers are only easy if you already had the right toons geared prior to 2020.
I dont know what you mean about redoing kits. We are talking about unreleased toons here. No redoing of kits would be needed. It seems you are confused about what i am suggesting so an example would be Moff Gideon. If/when he is released his kit will only need 3/4 or half of the high demand gear shown in these charts. Any character moving forward will also follow the same pattern. So there will be no redoing of past characters nor blowback from any investement by people. If anything adding more gear to challenges would result in blowback from people who spent money to buy this gear when there was a crunch. They would complain they wouldnt have bought the gear if there was more provided. So really the best case to avoid all of this is to just tackle future releases with the fix.
They did it already, and have confirmed as much. Primarily what they did was add kyro to the daily box.
21 kyro’s a week. Of a random type. So that means that it would take over a month for one finisher piece, if you got lucky and only got one type of kyro.
Wooooo boy did they help or did they help!
You can also buy them with GAC credits too. Its more like a finisher every 2-3 weeks if you use your currency correctly. You can buy 4 for 280 GAC points. That is all I personally spend my GAC points on is kyro.
"easier"
Except it's not, because it can be obtained on most AB's with sub 13 toons. Rebel Roundup is a great example, you can easily beat CT1 with a mix of G11 and 12.
CT2, sure.
Except you said it would make it “too easy” which I just showed that even making G12 more readily attainable, it is not in fact too easy to get a GL.
It would be "too easy" in my opinion. That's subjective and if you want to disagree, fine.
It would be "easier" which I said in later posts, which is objective and absolutely cannot be argued. Though I'm sure you'll try because you always think CG is trying to make things miserable for you personally.
I didn't say I liked it, just that they have already done it. They never said we would enjoy what they did, or agree that it was actually helpful.
They did reduce AB from two days. But they also run all 6 each month now, whereas they used to run 3-4 a month.
But the net rewards per month for doing CT I is much better.
If you can do all 6 CT I, then you are getting 60 and 60 Kyrotech, 30 x finisher, plus zetas.
Add in 90 Kyrotech a month (roughly) for dailies, and TW/TB Kyrotech, and you are likely clearing 250 kyrotech a month for playing the game. Likely you can get two finishers for 13 a month for 'free' by doing raids and guild events, without spending money or even energy.
Now, not everyone can do all the Challenge Tiers, that is true. But that is why your roster grows over time. There were times when I couldn't even qualify for tier 2 (not challenge tier 2, just tier 2) for Assault Battles. Over time you natural develop your roster as you play and the Tiers will be doable. Well. challenge tier 1. Tier 2 and 3 get absurd for the ABs and some will be out of reach for ages.
A 3-0 week in GAC gets you currency to buy 35 Kyrotech. 2-1 gets you enough for 24. It is a big increase in gear flow, but you have to win more than you lose.
And you personally think CG never does anything that is greedy or underhanded and always looks out for the best interest of its payers....ERrrrr players.
But I do appreciate the backtracking you did because it’s not too easy once you get to G12. It’s still a massive gear investment and that’s not really up for argument but knowing you...it will be.
Which also depends on your brackets from a flawed matchmaking system, as well as hoping your game doesn’t crash mid battle. Still a lot of uncertainty that comes with chance TBH
1) I have said so on many occasions. In fact in this very thread. "Kyro easing the gear crunch was a lie."
2) Yes it's a massive gear investment past G12. It's even more massiver including everything needed to get there and taking all that out of the equation makes it less massive. No thanks.
Haha I enjoy this one.