So in the new scheme of thing we are also pushed to choose between new gl undertoon (maul) vs. wrapping up rc for the new capital as well. Since new gl is far for me I'll try to farm rc to 7*. But then this will cut maul short and at the end of 3 months I'll have to farm maul from conquest store...and so on; unless I buy the pack which will surely be offered. Another sink hole that's not immediately apperant.
Anyone who thinks they won't be able to beat a GL with JML is using him wrong. Or didn't actually read the changes.
JML + JKL and new repulse can’t kill GLs? LOL he will wipe the floor with SLKR.
Read this thread, there's a ton of people that seem to think JML is now worthless lol.
He’s now the worst GL of them all. Here’s why:
Rey is getting a boost to her kit to do insane damage and now has much better defensive viability. JML beating Rey relied on max health reduction, cool down reduction and the ability to eat through her defense. Both GAS and JKL got nerfed against GL’s. JML relies solely on supporting cast to do damage. Now that damage has been reduced so if Rey is able to get to her ultimate twice, it’s over.
SEE vs JML? 98% win rate for SEE.
JMK vs JML? You’re taking away damage and other viability so now that already shaky fight gets even more tuned to JMK.
SLKR vs JML? SLKR is going to be tougher to beat now. GAS can no longer increase cool downs on crits to keep his AOE under control or reduce max health anymore, nor ignore defense.
Luke is losing defense ignoring as well. It’s going to be much harder to take out SLKR before his ultimate now. So if that’s the case and it’s just JML vs SLKR, JML loses that 1v1 every time.
Will he be worthless overall? No, he will still crush anyone non GL. He is now the worst GL and needs to be buffedrd for better GL 1v1 viability or at least make his ultimate charge a bit faster
I don’t see why jml won’t be a hard counter to jmk anymore (on offense).
JML isn’t even a hard counter now lol
My shard and guild mates would strongly disagree.
Really? Because a hard counter is one that is almost a guaranteed win when your team is of equal power or an understandable punch up to the opponent. For a long time, JML has been a hard counter to SLKR. Sith Trio to Geo’s and MonMama, CLS to Padme, DR to CLS, etc.
If what you claim is true, why have I not beaten a single JMK team using multiple JML compositions? Especially now with CAT.
Not to be that person but if you can’t beat JMK with JML at all you are probably doing something wrong … the counter is highly consistent even with R8s / god mod JMKs
Being that it’s a soft counter, perhaps I just haven’t found the right composition yet. It’s not a guaranteed win, or even highly likely one. The point is that it’s a soft counter and soft counters are not always going to net you the win.
So in the new scheme of thing we are also pushed to choose between new gl undertoon (maul) vs. wrapping up rc for the new capital as well. Since new gl is far for me I'll try to farm rc to 7*. But then this will cut maul short and at the end of 3 months I'll have to farm maul from conquest store...and so on; unless I buy the pack which will surely be offered. Another sink hole that's not immediately apperant.
I think RC will be available in a node somewhere and not be conquest exclusive but will have to wait and see
So in the new scheme of thing we are also pushed to choose between new gl undertoon (maul) vs. wrapping up rc for the new capital as well. Since new gl is far for me I'll try to farm rc to 7*. But then this will cut maul short and at the end of 3 months I'll have to farm maul from conquest store...and so on; unless I buy the pack which will surely be offered. Another sink hole that's not immediately apperant.
Not really, you (and me too, probably) will be able to finish Maul in the next 3 Conquests when he will be the "secondary" reward character. Now we have CAT as the "primary" and RC as "secondary", then it will be Maul and CAT, and after that something new and Maul. Only after that will he leave the reward crates for good.
We can assume there is no bottom line in how low we can go in, lets call it by name, dickish behavior.
Me working months to unlock a hard to get hero? <<< Some GL
With these changes we can safely say NOBODY is safe and anyone below a conquest hero/GL is a-ok to "tweak" under "long term health of the game" excuse.
Why bother coming up with new counters if a whale will just cry that his GL was beaten by "insert team here"? He will get buffs for that and your team will be "looked at"
All we can do is wait until more numerical info drops, create counters and have them nerfed cuz "Muh GLs".
Can't wait for challange AAT (r7 entry?) to have similar anti-pesant mechanics to scare of the non-gl teams under the "Use your entire roster, except all the ones we don't want you to use" banner.
By now even a ship raid would be good news, but we can't have reworks or new raids.
Exactly. Not even one QOL or new game mode or new tier of a raid. Only 2 toons and a ridiculous/insane capital ship event. This is absolute **** and will kill consumer confidence. If Wat, GAS and JKL are fair game for a nerf, then nothing is safe anymore. Also, no one will now invest in any toon or ship except those required for GLs. It is that simple.
I've been playing all kinds of games for years, it's the first time I see such absurd changes.
1- You will convert the GAS made from R8 to R7 and return the materials. I wouldn't even build an R7 if GAS didn't have these capabilities. We should be able to lower it to the relic level we want.
2- If GAS didn't have these abilities, I wouldn't spend 80 zetas. Can you return the zetas?
3- I wouldn't make Chewbakka and Fives R7 if gas didn't have these abilities. Will you return the materials?
4- If Blastech wasn't in this state, I wouldn't use zeta for Wat. Will you return the zetas?
5- If I couldn't cut GL with Vader, I wouldn't have made it an R8 and I wouldn't have spent zeta. Maybe I'd leave the R5? Materials and zetas ?
I could write hundreds more things here, but that's all you'll get the message
I think if you can't manage, don't manage. Or, instead of saying "we're making changes", please say "we've made big mistakes before, we're trying to fix them" or something.
New Capital Ship and it’s the Executor!
Lord Vader & Maul and they’ll work together on the same team!
Relic 9 = Stronger Toons
Balancing toons for the longevity of the game and increasing the power of toons that require the most investment is a good thing.
They’ll be able to design new toons and you’ll still be able to use the old ones on new ways.
This will keep the game fresh instead of staying the with the same counters.
GAC Devs vs Content Creators- Yes!
The format was perfect, hopefully we continue to receive more communication using this style!
I for one am pumped and excited for the future of the game!
I wonder if cls will still be able to counter gas 501st with his new buffs as leader of the 501st.
I was wondering that, and I think so. CLS usually gets more turns than the clones, so I don't think the increased protection, which is just on clone turns, will really come into play. A well-timed 3PAC AoE can ensure killing the clones in one topple.
Which just leaves 100% protection when coming out of the topple; but I don't think this will be much of a problem for a good CLS team.
Worst case scenario it's a little harder and maybe not as many banners, but I think it will still be a good counter.
Please don't implement this changes.... Look to what the content creators and the community are saying. There are better ways to fix the GL counter issues.
CG staff has been actively reading / jotting down the feedback ITT
CG aren't particulary known for reacting to feedback. I'm not saying they disregard feedback but they usually take their time with it.
It took them 3 months to change CPit even though the feedback was justified and very reasonable. It took them 2 years to make TB platoons not random. It took them 6 Conquests to make some noticeable changes. We have been waiting for years for mod management changes.
The chances of them addressing any feedback given about these changes before the update is released are very slim.
Having used Vader in some GAC/TB after the announced changes, I'm concerned that you are nerfing his effectiveness outside of GL counters. A 40% damage nerf to Culling Blade is too deep of a cut because there are high HP enemies outside of GLs in the game. Yes, the increase damage to his basic is nice and so is the MM critical chance, but Culling Blade is one of the core strengths of Vader. Consider dropping the damage nerf to 20% or simply make a clause to Culling Blade that says "Cannot crit. against a GL."
Please don't implement this changes.... Look to what the content creators and the community are saying. There are better ways to fix the GL counter issues.
LOL CG has shown what they think of the content creators. Unless its their favorite podcast they refuse to talk ti anyone else and will go out of their way to try and ban their accounts.
New Capital Ship and it’s the Executor!
Lord Vader & Maul and they’ll work together on the same team!
Relic 9 = Stronger Toons
Balancing toons for the longevity of the game and increasing the power of toons that require the most investment is a good thing.
They’ll be able to design new toons and you’ll still be able to use the old ones on new ways.
This will keep the game fresh instead of staying the with the same counters.
GAC Devs vs Content Creators- Yes!
The format was perfect, hopefully we continue to receive more communication using this style!
I for one am pumped and excited for the future of the game!
Ummm wut? Lol
-Capital ship executor! Woooo can’t wait to pump tons of resources (r8) to even get the ship
-Lord Vader and Mail: Yes exciting, more so maul because we already are having to pour more R8 to unlock Lord Vader…
-Relic 9: Yay more progression with zero gear economy relief. I love tighter bottlenecks and more demanding progression grinds. So fun
-Nerfing does not equal balance. They’re making it so non GL counters are no longer effective. That’s not healthy. That’s a massive money grab to force GL farms.
-If by fresh you mean no more non GL counters to GL’s forcing the same matchups between GL’s then….sure? Yeah, fresh..
-Video format for RA: Yes I did like this. Very personable and enjoyed Doja and Crumb having some fun.
- Devs vs GC’s: Oh I’ll definitely enjoy watching that. Hoping that they include both Cubs and Ahnald in that.
I wouldn’t classify JML as a hard counter to JMK, but a soft counter for sure (potentially the “best” counter outside of mirror matches).
Since remodding after my struggles with Day 1 CAT comps, I have only lost 2 battles to JMK using JML (one of which the JMK squad was modded a bit slower and therefore I had misplays with increasing cooldowns too early). All that said, there’s a point in each of the battles where I know I have it won, I never find it a guaranteed win entering the battle like other hard counters out there. Therefore, I would label it a soft counter.
Exactly, as it stands, every GL can beat JMK on defense, but it takes proper modding, the right team comps and specific move order/targeting.
None of them are guaranteed wins though so as you said, soft counter
Ok, I take hard counter back, and to quote Alexandros, let’s say it’s a highly consistent counter. It uses a classic composition (jml lead hyoda jkr gas jkl), doesn’t need specific turn order/higher speed or specific modding. It relies highly on specific move order/targeting for sure, no argument there. You can’t hit auto and win.
So, back to the point: if jml stays a highly consistent counter versus what is now the strongest team in the game, he’ll still be useful in pvp.
Anyone who thinks they won't be able to beat a GL with JML is using him wrong. Or didn't actually read the changes.
JML + JKL and new repulse can’t kill GLs? LOL he will wipe the floor with SLKR.
Read this thread, there's a ton of people that seem to think JML is now worthless lol.
He’s now the worst GL of them all. Here’s why:
Rey is getting a boost to her kit to do insane damage and now has much better defensive viability. JML beating Rey relied on max health reduction, cool down reduction and the ability to eat through her defense. Both GAS and JKL got nerfed against GL’s. JML relies solely on supporting cast to do damage. Now that damage has been reduced so if Rey is able to get to her ultimate twice, it’s over.
SEE vs JML? 98% win rate for SEE.
JMK vs JML? You’re taking away damage and other viability so now that already shaky fight gets even more tuned to JMK.
SLKR vs JML? SLKR is going to be tougher to beat now. GAS can no longer increase cool downs on crits to keep his AOE under control or reduce max health anymore, nor ignore defense.
Luke is losing defense ignoring as well. It’s going to be much harder to take out SLKR before his ultimate now. So if that’s the case and it’s just JML vs SLKR, JML loses that 1v1 every time.
Will he be worthless overall? No, he will still crush anyone non GL. He is now the worst GL and needs to be buffedrd for better GL 1v1 viability or at least make his ultimate charge a bit faster
I don’t see why jml won’t be a hard counter to jmk anymore (on offense).
JML isn’t even a hard counter now lol
My shard and guild mates would strongly disagree.
Really? Because a hard counter is one that is almost a guaranteed win when your team is of equal power or an understandable punch up to the opponent. For a long time, JML has been a hard counter to SLKR. Sith Trio to Geo’s and MonMama, CLS to Padme, DR to CLS, etc.
If what you claim is true, why have I not beaten a single JMK team using multiple JML compositions? Especially now with CAT.
Not to be that person but if you can’t beat JMK with JML at all you are probably doing something wrong … the counter is highly consistent even with R8s / god mod JMKs
Being that it’s a soft counter, perhaps I just haven’t found the right composition yet. It’s not a guaranteed win, or even highly likely one. The point is that it’s a soft counter and soft counters are not always going to net you the win.
Starslayer above covered this exactly, but the win is (at it stands rn) a highly likely one, but you have to understand the kits, and do the right things... If you define a hard counter as something where you go in and just start mindlessly blasting everything then sure the win is not (and shouldn't be) a highly likely one, especially against the newest GL... people should be incentivized/rewarded for using resources effectively (or for spending 3k ...) . No point in arguing this anymore I guess...
I don’t even know why people still post on the forums. They don’t listen to us. They may read it, but at the end of the day they will choose what they want. The whole part of getting feedback from the community is to listen and do it. I realize you can’t do everything the community wants, but we have seen very few times where they actually gave us what we want.
Vader is going to be practically useless after the nerf with the removal of the click around portion of mercilous. Make gls better don’t make characters people have invested into worse.
New Capital Ship and it’s the Executor!
Lord Vader & Maul and they’ll work together on the same team!
Relic 9 = Stronger Toons
Balancing toons for the longevity of the game and increasing the power of toons that require the most investment is a good thing.
They’ll be able to design new toons and you’ll still be able to use the old ones on new ways.
This will keep the game fresh instead of staying the with the same counters.
GAC Devs vs Content Creators- Yes!
The format was perfect, hopefully we continue to receive more communication using this style!
I for one am pumped and excited for the future of the game!
you can pumped, the rest of us disagree HARD..
Do I care that Lord Vader is the new DS GL?
-not really, while the character is definitely worthy of that Elite status, I wanted a different GL opposite of GLOW.
RELIC 9?
-Too soon man.. WAY TOO SOON. I just got 1 character to R8 and that's because of Conquest, not because of an amped old Raid that has a crappy rewards system.
Designing new toons SHOULD NOT be at the expense of the other toons, after all, people spent real money, real time and effort into creating any kind of roster.
How can we play a game of "resource management" if the resources aren't worth what they were???
The Devs knew this wouldn't be a good idea, they admitted in previous posts that they argued about the changes.. My trust is shaken with CG.. They need to design better and communicate better.
Please don't implement this changes.... Look to what the content creators and the community are saying. There are better ways to fix the GL counter issues.
LOL CG has shown what they think of the content creators. Unless its their favorite podcast they refuse to talk ti anyone else and will go out of their way to try and ban their accounts.
They apparently loved CubsFanHan. However, he may have removed himself from their Christmas card list with his criticism of the coming changes.
I wouldn’t classify JML as a hard counter to JMK, but a soft counter for sure (potentially the “best” counter outside of mirror matches).
Since remodding after my struggles with Day 1 CAT comps, I have only lost 2 battles to JMK using JML (one of which the JMK squad was modded a bit slower and therefore I had misplays with increasing cooldowns too early). All that said, there’s a point in each of the battles where I know I have it won, I never find it a guaranteed win entering the battle like other hard counters out there. Therefore, I would label it a soft counter.
Exactly, as it stands, every GL can beat JMK on defense, but it takes proper modding, the right team comps and specific move order/targeting.
None of them are guaranteed wins though so as you said, soft counter
Ok, I take hard counter back, and to quote Alexandros, let’s say it’s a highly consistent counter. It uses a classic composition (jml lead hyoda jkr gas jkl), doesn’t need specific turn order/higher speed or specific modding. It relies highly on specific move order/targeting for sure, no argument there. You can’t hit auto and win.
So, back to the point: if jml stays a highly consistent counter versus what is now the strongest team in the game, he’ll still be useful in pvp.
I still don’t see highly consistent. However now if you take away the effects of JKL and GAS it’s going to be worse. Less damage, less Max Health reduction and of course no CD increases. Can he still win against JMK? Idk. But there’s no doubt that JML is getting worse with his supporting cast getting nerfed against GL’s. He deserves a pass over to shore up his viability as a stand alone GL and be less reliant on his supporting cast and more about making them better with him around. Even just making his ult charge faster and tweaking the stat boosts of it would be suffice depending on what these changes do to his cast
I don’t even know why people still post on the forums. They don’t listen to us. They may read it, but at the end of the day they will choose what they want. The whole part of getting feedback from the community is to listen and do it. I realize you can’t do everything the community wants, but we have seen very few times where they actually gave us what we want.
Not only that, they'll straight up delete your post like the did to me. I voiced my frustrations and made it known that I'm now in the process of quitting (even deleting mods). Just getting my guild through GeoTB first.
Apparently that's too much and I had to be silenced.
What is sad, is that I knew they would do this because they edit/delete posts all the time. So I took a screenshot of my original post.
If the GLs need to be unbeatable, then just make them unbeatable. Make them stronger or give them all something that greatly increases their strength when their is no GL on the other side. You DO NOT need to weaken current characters to "fix" this. IMO, you shouldn't make them unbeatable, but if you must, then don't do it by making the others less effective - make the GLs more effective.
So in the new scheme of thing we are also pushed to choose between new gl undertoon (maul) vs. wrapping up rc for the new capital as well. Since new gl is far for me I'll try to farm rc to 7*. But then this will cut maul short and at the end of 3 months I'll have to farm maul from conquest store...and so on; unless I buy the pack which will surely be offered. Another sink hole that's not immediately apperant.
Not really, you (and me too, probably) will be able to finish Maul in the next 3 Conquests when he will be the "secondary" reward character. Now we have CAT as the "primary" and RC as "secondary", then it will be Maul and CAT, and after that something new and Maul. Only after that will he leave the reward crates for good.
Ah good point, this is more dealable. If it's made map farmable it might mean I won't have to go into a forever overhead delaying each new release one conquest further.
Replies
Being that it’s a soft counter, perhaps I just haven’t found the right composition yet. It’s not a guaranteed win, or even highly likely one. The point is that it’s a soft counter and soft counters are not always going to net you the win.
I think RC will be available in a node somewhere and not be conquest exclusive but will have to wait and see
Doesn't seem like it'll be pack / conquest locked
Not really, you (and me too, probably) will be able to finish Maul in the next 3 Conquests when he will be the "secondary" reward character. Now we have CAT as the "primary" and RC as "secondary", then it will be Maul and CAT, and after that something new and Maul. Only after that will he leave the reward crates for good.
Exactly. Not even one QOL or new game mode or new tier of a raid. Only 2 toons and a ridiculous/insane capital ship event. This is absolute **** and will kill consumer confidence. If Wat, GAS and JKL are fair game for a nerf, then nothing is safe anymore. Also, no one will now invest in any toon or ship except those required for GLs. It is that simple.
1- You will convert the GAS made from R8 to R7 and return the materials. I wouldn't even build an R7 if GAS didn't have these capabilities. We should be able to lower it to the relic level we want.
2- If GAS didn't have these abilities, I wouldn't spend 80 zetas. Can you return the zetas?
3- I wouldn't make Chewbakka and Fives R7 if gas didn't have these abilities. Will you return the materials?
4- If Blastech wasn't in this state, I wouldn't use zeta for Wat. Will you return the zetas?
5- If I couldn't cut GL with Vader, I wouldn't have made it an R8 and I wouldn't have spent zeta. Maybe I'd leave the R5? Materials and zetas ?
I could write hundreds more things here, but that's all you'll get the message
I think if you can't manage, don't manage. Or, instead of saying "we're making changes", please say "we've made big mistakes before, we're trying to fix them" or something.
Would be a real shame to keep this thread locked indefinitely due to a few bad actors
Lord Vader & Maul and they’ll work together on the same team!
Relic 9 = Stronger Toons
Balancing toons for the longevity of the game and increasing the power of toons that require the most investment is a good thing.
They’ll be able to design new toons and you’ll still be able to use the old ones on new ways.
This will keep the game fresh instead of staying the with the same counters.
GAC Devs vs Content Creators- Yes!
The format was perfect, hopefully we continue to receive more communication using this style!
I for one am pumped and excited for the future of the game!
I was wondering that, and I think so. CLS usually gets more turns than the clones, so I don't think the increased protection, which is just on clone turns, will really come into play. A well-timed 3PAC AoE can ensure killing the clones in one topple.
Which just leaves 100% protection when coming out of the topple; but I don't think this will be much of a problem for a good CLS team.
Worst case scenario it's a little harder and maybe not as many banners, but I think it will still be a good counter.
CG aren't particulary known for reacting to feedback. I'm not saying they disregard feedback but they usually take their time with it.
It took them 3 months to change CPit even though the feedback was justified and very reasonable. It took them 2 years to make TB platoons not random. It took them 6 Conquests to make some noticeable changes. We have been waiting for years for mod management changes.
The chances of them addressing any feedback given about these changes before the update is released are very slim.
LOL CG has shown what they think of the content creators. Unless its their favorite podcast they refuse to talk ti anyone else and will go out of their way to try and ban their accounts.
No they did not.
What about JKR lead?
Can Superman see through it?
Ummm wut? Lol
-Capital ship executor! Woooo can’t wait to pump tons of resources (r8) to even get the ship
-Lord Vader and Mail: Yes exciting, more so maul because we already are having to pour more R8 to unlock Lord Vader…
-Relic 9: Yay more progression with zero gear economy relief. I love tighter bottlenecks and more demanding progression grinds. So fun
-Nerfing does not equal balance. They’re making it so non GL counters are no longer effective. That’s not healthy. That’s a massive money grab to force GL farms.
-If by fresh you mean no more non GL counters to GL’s forcing the same matchups between GL’s then….sure? Yeah, fresh..
-Video format for RA: Yes I did like this. Very personable and enjoyed Doja and Crumb having some fun.
- Devs vs GC’s: Oh I’ll definitely enjoy watching that. Hoping that they include both Cubs and Ahnald in that.
Only Galactic Legend Superman can see through it…but not before the lead was nerfed.
Ok, I take hard counter back, and to quote Alexandros, let’s say it’s a highly consistent counter. It uses a classic composition (jml lead hyoda jkr gas jkl), doesn’t need specific turn order/higher speed or specific modding. It relies highly on specific move order/targeting for sure, no argument there. You can’t hit auto and win.
So, back to the point: if jml stays a highly consistent counter versus what is now the strongest team in the game, he’ll still be useful in pvp.
Starslayer above covered this exactly, but the win is (at it stands rn) a highly likely one, but you have to understand the kits, and do the right things... If you define a hard counter as something where you go in and just start mindlessly blasting everything then sure the win is not (and shouldn't be) a highly likely one, especially against the newest GL... people should be incentivized/rewarded for using resources effectively (or for spending 3k ...) . No point in arguing this anymore I guess...
you can pumped, the rest of us disagree HARD..
Do I care that Lord Vader is the new DS GL?
-not really, while the character is definitely worthy of that Elite status, I wanted a different GL opposite of GLOW.
RELIC 9?
-Too soon man.. WAY TOO SOON. I just got 1 character to R8 and that's because of Conquest, not because of an amped old Raid that has a crappy rewards system.
Designing new toons SHOULD NOT be at the expense of the other toons, after all, people spent real money, real time and effort into creating any kind of roster.
How can we play a game of "resource management" if the resources aren't worth what they were???
The Devs knew this wouldn't be a good idea, they admitted in previous posts that they argued about the changes.. My trust is shaken with CG.. They need to design better and communicate better.
They apparently loved CubsFanHan. However, he may have removed himself from their Christmas card list with his criticism of the coming changes.
I still don’t see highly consistent. However now if you take away the effects of JKL and GAS it’s going to be worse. Less damage, less Max Health reduction and of course no CD increases. Can he still win against JMK? Idk. But there’s no doubt that JML is getting worse with his supporting cast getting nerfed against GL’s. He deserves a pass over to shore up his viability as a stand alone GL and be less reliant on his supporting cast and more about making them better with him around. Even just making his ult charge faster and tweaking the stat boosts of it would be suffice depending on what these changes do to his cast
Not only that, they'll straight up delete your post like the did to me. I voiced my frustrations and made it known that I'm now in the process of quitting (even deleting mods). Just getting my guild through GeoTB first.
Apparently that's too much and I had to be silenced.
What is sad, is that I knew they would do this because they edit/delete posts all the time. So I took a screenshot of my original post.
Ah good point, this is more dealable. If it's made map farmable it might mean I won't have to go into a forever overhead delaying each new release one conquest further.