[MEGA] Road Ahead: July 2021

Replies

  • Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Doja and I spent most of the weekend gathering sentiment and feedback regarding the Road Ahead. Below are some of the most recurring comments we noticed, and hopefully the following responses will help clarify some of the questions and concerns you have.

    We also appreciate the vast majority of you separating the video format from the news contained within the message. Hopefully we can deliver more videos in the future and work toward expanding the ways we interact with the SWGoH community.

    Galactic Legends and non-GL counters/interactions:

    The community has always been excellent at puzzle-solving, theory-crafting, and finding ways to maximize the effectiveness of their rosters. The changes are meant to not only allow for more design space for powerful characters below Galactic Legends, but also to prevent situations in which a non-GL could one-shot or otherwise severely and regularly reduce the effectiveness of a Galactic Legend.

    As we mentioned in the video, changing characters post launch is a last resort. There needs to be a balance between how consistent a counter is and how powerful the squad they are facing is in comparison. This is not just for squads with GLs, but for any squad that is able to counter another. For a healthy balance to the meta, counters should require a similar amount of resources to the team they can beat, whether that’s mods, gear/relic level, and/or specific units.

    GLs require a large amount of time and resources to unlock and their place in the meta should reflect the difficulty involved in unlocking them. They are late-game units and it makes sense they would be commensurate in power and effectiveness to their status as late-game roster acquisitions that take a lot of effort to acquire.

    Difficulty of Events Post-Character Changes:

    We are reviewing existing Journey Guide events for any unintentional side effects. Our goal is to keep these events around the same level of difficulty as before.

    Three of the characters had specific updates to their kits to maintain the character’s utility as a high-end unit in other areas of the game, such as PvE events, etc. General Skywalker, for example, had things added to his kit because we wanted to offset the changes and make sure he remained highly effective - especially when leading a full 501st squad - in other areas of the game.

    Dark Trooper:

    We noticed some confusion surrounding Dark Trooper and wanted to clarify that DT is not getting any direct changes to its kit. Rather, the changes to Sith Eternal Emperor reduce Dark Trooper’s effectiveness in this matchup and that is why we specifically decided to return resources for Dark Trooper.

    Relic 9 Timing:

    Relic 9 is further out and will be coming to the game after the character changes are implemented, not before. We’ll share more details on R9 as it gets closer. Having said that, the character changes needed to happen before R9, otherwise the underlying issues surrounding defense being ignored would only be exasperated.

    Razor Crest Shards and Conquest 7:

    More details on obtaining Razor Crest shards will be coming soon. As far as Conquest 7 (and the concern of no August Conquest), as mentioned in the video, Conquest 7 will experience a slight delay. Three Conquests over the next three-ish months is still the plan. This should result in little to no interference with the timeline of playing through the next three Conquests and reaping the resulting rewards of your efforts there.

    Executor Requirements:

    We saw a lot of discussion surrounding the requirements for Executor and it’s place in the fleet meta. It is our intention that the Executor will be commensurate in power to the difficulty involved in acquiring it.

    ---

    I hope this response sheds some light on our perspective. We will continue to escalate your feedback to the team and be here to answer as many questions as possible.

    Crumb thanks for the response, but man…idk….

    GL vs non GL
    You’re confirming here that any non GL team shouldn’t be able to counter GL’s so now you’re setting the precedent that if the community does find that, you’re gonna nerf it which means we need to invest cautiously. That’s not ok. It’s not like G11 Vader can delete an R8 Rey. It requires equal amounts of investment and gear, mods and time to make these counters work, which aren’t even guaranteed. So I’m sorry you’re actively devaluing our progression in an arbitrary manner.


    Relic 9 timing
    You’re still missing the point. You’re totally ignoring that the outrage over R9 is due to your teams inability and refusal to ease day one gear crunches 5 years into the game. It wouldn’t be a big issue if you trivialized getting to G12 5 years in the game. There is no reason that if you guys implement a change that makes it so that my whole roster (as a day one player mind you) can be G12 in a few if I focused only on that. I’m not saying R7 should be a week long trek, but come on; the outrage over R9 is the insane gear investment it takes to just take ONE toon there. Let alone the 15+ you require to relic for GL’s or the 6 you now require for Executor.


    Executor Requirements:
    Again, tone deaf. If you wanted to make even G13 the hard req then ok. But R8? My goodness even Uber Krakens only have around 15-20 toons at R8 at this point after almost 9 months. You expect people to just get 3 or 4 to that point no issues? FIX THE GEAR CRUNCH!!!!

    Idk crumb, I get you’re only the messenger but you and Doja need to tell whoever is making these decisions that they’re flat out wrong. If your community, F2P and krakens alike and everything in between are resoundingly outraged over this, perhaps the best course isn’t to dig your heels into the sand. That’s just me talking because I know my $200 a month will not be spent here when you guys are setting a precedent to change whatever for any reason

    @CG_SBCrumb_MINI thanks for taking the time. Thanks for the video format and every explication you just gave.

    But I must disagree... You guys are making a huge mistake with the GLs vs non GLs changes.

    The fun of the game is to balance mods on non meta characters to have a chance a using some useful counters. I was a almost f2p the first 3 years, and for the last 2 years I have poured ridiculous amount of money into your game. The GLs are more accessible to paying customers and I don’t think they are happy. Competition is fun and when you make it impossible to compete, even for just a bit of the game, it feels you are not listening and not understanding.

    You say changing kits are last resort but you are operating numerous changes on various key characters for only 6 GLs ? Come on...

    Managing the game and all its aspects must be really complex I understand but listen to us !! We want GLs to be vulnerable ! Make them humans again

    You can keep all other changes, just retract yourself on the GLs bit

  • I don’t understand how someone could equal f2p to no GL. I mean I am a f2p and have all 5 GL. All you need is to join a good guild and invest a significant amount of time each day (and to have some brains ofc).

    As to the changes, crazy requirements of new ship and LV, and introduction of R9, pretty much everything is in line with CG’s practice. At least they gave us a month’s notice! Isn’t that great? At the end of the day, people leave because they don’t like the game, not because of the changes; people stay because they like this game, or like to play with the friends; whales still gonna pay because, well, they are whales. In a year or 2 nobody will remember this RA.

    Sound good to have 5 GL with f2p, but tbh its hard to believe.
    I guess you play since day 1. But still how did you manage to get e.g. that much energy to unlock JMK?
    I started my f2p account at end of january, like 10 of my shard members already have GL . Someone has it since months..
    I now have 1 relic 5 FO character and 5 G12. Rest are G8-9.
    I dont see that i will unlock SLKR in months..
    So even if i have million times, i cannot compensate/accelerate the energy refresh.. so yes you need time to log in and collect energy and do the farming, but not that significat amount.
    I think i have some knowledge about the game as i read a lot but there is still a gap what you cannot overtake by just spending more time on game.
    I dont mind that there will be R9, but i dont like that i strugle a lot to get caracters from G8 to G9 and so on.
    Lets face it G8-G9-G10 is far from r9.

    If they would separate players in GAC and TW based on GL numbers then im fine with these changes.
    But it dont this wil happen. Like when my old guild with 50M GP (0 GL) faced with another 50m guild with 3 GL. That 3 GL came from 1 player, but sill it was hopeless.
  • As an initial Rey user, it did annoy me that she was so easily beatable by a very accessible counter, given the amount of resources put into getting her.

    I have never liked that non-GL characters can CONSISTENTLY beat GL-led teams. That being said, there NEEDS be counters that are non-GL or it will completely screw up GAC and TW.

    My hope, which I actually stated in the forums on reddit about a month ago, is for there to be multiple counters that are non-GL, but that are INCONSISTENT or have a decent amount of RNG involved. Hopefully CG see's it the same way. If your significantly punching up in terms of power, then it should be risky.
  • Chocobilly
    2 posts Member
    edited July 27
    If they would separate players in GAC and TW based on GL numbers then im fine with these changes.
    This was my concern.
    It still takes time to get to 5 million GP, no matter how many GLs you have. Most of the time I'm (division 5) facing people with 2 GLs. So I can't be creative after this. They just lay both down on defense, and I'm screwed. I'm at least 2 months I'd say from my second GL. So for the next two months I have no chance. That's terrible. GAC is my favorite part of the game because you have to be creative managing your resources.
    And at no point in Arena have I seen a complete non-GL counter vs. a GL in my shard. Usually people use the characters you are nerfing to overcome a natural disadvantage, I.E. SEE vs SLKR or SLKR vs JML.
    So all I have is SLKR right now, so I have to be creative in arena to climb if there's a wall of JMLs. Which is already frustrating.

    I know balancing a game with 120+ characters is difficult. But please find another way to even the scales without taking away the options of those of us who are working diligently to get a GL or get more.
    Post edited by Chocobilly on
  • Ok, I don't know if this has been brought before. But players want CG to change the Gac matchmaking to be based around GL, does that mean you want them to change division placement too? Because I've seen player with 5m GP with no GL, and I'm confused on how those kinds of player matchmaking will be
  • It doesn’t matter how far R9 is from being implemented if there aren’t SERIOUS changes to the gear economy.
  • @CG_Doja_Fett_MINI hi. I just watched the podcast with crumb. Appreciate your team taking time to be with the community.

    I had a question that wasn't answered with how this will effect GAC/TW/Conquest?

    GAC/TW: How will these GL changes translate into GAC/TW? In the current matchmaking system, its all too possible to consistently get matched up with someone who has more GLs than you or your guild. With these changes, a slight disadvantage that can be navigated with GL counters now all of the sudden becomes a huge disadvantage; should be an instant loss in this new system.

    Conquest: Many of the feats required some of these anti-GL abilities to make the max reward box obtainable or possibly for those without a GL they were able to obtain max rewards; how will these changes affect this game mode? For example, Rey w/ Thrawn Fracture or Wat Weapon Tech on Vader.

    I'm sure the answer to both of these are well... It's complicated.. But basically you're screwed. I hope I'm wrong. I understand justifying the reward of obtaining a gl in something like arena.. but when my 7.1 m gp account with 4 GLs is matched with a 7.4m gp account with 5 GLs, the odds shouldn't be insurmountable. This isn't poker. Before these modes could be calculated strategically. This is being replaced with what I valued. To implement such a change should have been coupled with a change in Algorithm where it evaluates number of GL s first when matchmaking if you're effectively breaking the meta in 2. This is an oversight and will most likely lead to my and many more s exit to the game unfortunately. I will wait and see, but won't give it much time if what was fun to me turns into frustration. I already feel like the past year has been partially wasted shoring my roster to cover counters, etc. And no the 4 refunds will not change that.

    Thank you for your time and work
  • MrFear220 wrote: »
    Can the developers please make a post better explaining their reasoning behind changes like Thrawn not being able to Fracture GLs? This is an extremely niche ability found nowhere else in-game. A healthy meta is where GLs are in a league of their own, sure, but still able to be beaten with a few non-GL teams.

    They said they want GL to be mini-raid bosses. Do you need explanation why fracture can’t full stop raid bosses?

    Okay, Mr. Smarty Pants.

    It appears GLs are getting some raid boss features and not others. Why was Fracture mechanic chosen to be one where they do behave like raid bosses?

    If you check the post carefully, fracture was not the only one where GL will act like raid bosses. It’s the one that caught your eyes though

    Neither I nor the guy with the original question said that. Care to try and answer the actual question?

    BTW, you can't. You don't know the answer. Unless you have some inside knowledge the rest of us don't.

    Your question is wrong. GL do not get raid boss features. It’s the other characters’ abilities that are changed regarding GL.

    But regarding your question, are you asking why GL don’t get raid boss features such as enrage and take 3 actions in 1 turn?
  • KKatarn
    602 posts Member
    Seriously this has the potencial to break the game. After all what will be the point of trying to develop dozens of characters when in the end only the 6 GL will matter (New Vader Included)?

    Truth be told i do hope CG takes a big hit on their revenue with this predatory new milking tactic. Maybe that way they will turn back from it.
  • XgerNaph wrote: »
    Galactic Legends and non-GL counters/interactions:

    The community has always been excellent at puzzle-solving, theory-crafting, and finding ways to maximize the effectiveness of their rosters. The changes are meant to not only allow for more design space for powerful characters below Galactic Legends, but also to prevent situations in which a non-GL could one-shot or otherwise severely and regularly reduce the effectiveness of a Galactic Legend.

    As we mentioned in the video, changing characters post launch is a last resort. There needs to be a balance between how consistent a counter is and how powerful the squad they are facing is in comparison. This is not just for squads with GLs, but for any squad that is able to counter another. For a healthy balance to the meta, counters should require a similar amount of resources to the team they can beat, whether that’s mods, gear/relic level, and/or specific units.

    GLs require a large amount of time and resources to unlock and their place in the meta should reflect the difficulty involved in unlocking them. They are late-game units and it makes sense they would be commensurate in power and effectiveness to their status as late-game roster acquisitions that take a lot of effort to acquire.

    This doesn't really answer the issue though. It sounds like you still may allow non-GL counters, as long as they are soft, or aren't 100%.

    As for the amount of resources: GAS and JKL both require near-GL levels of resources.....so shouldn't they be able to punch up?

    You are ignoring how many tickets (translated to more crystals and time) you need to get in order to unlock and maxing GL. I suspect Nukem and JKR JKL will still work against some poorly modded Rey and SLK teams
  • MrFear220 wrote: »
    Can the developers please make a post better explaining their reasoning behind changes like Thrawn not being able to Fracture GLs? This is an extremely niche ability found nowhere else in-game. A healthy meta is where GLs are in a league of their own, sure, but still able to be beaten with a few non-GL teams.

    They said they want GL to be mini-raid bosses. Do you need explanation why fracture can’t full stop raid bosses?

    Okay, Mr. Smarty Pants.

    It appears GLs are getting some raid boss features and not others. Why was Fracture mechanic chosen to be one where they do behave like raid bosses?

    If you check the post carefully, fracture was not the only one where GL will act like raid bosses. It’s the one that caught your eyes though

    Neither I nor the guy with the original question said that. Care to try and answer the actual question?

    BTW, you can't. You don't know the answer. Unless you have some inside knowledge the rest of us don't.

    Your question is wrong. GL do not get raid boss features. It’s the other characters’ abilities that are changed regarding GL.

    But regarding your question, are you asking why GL don’t get raid boss features such as enrage and take 3 actions in 1 turn?

    Not my question. I accept your point that the original question was built on a false premise. Perhaps lead with that next time :)
  • 2 definitions for you to consider

    1) A progress trap is a new technology that could improve life but that ends up making things worse due to a failure to manage risks.

    2) Income inequality is how unevenly income is distributed throughout a population. The less equal the distribution, the higher income inequality is.

    You guys are tasked with balancing f2p and p2p which is not easy you must convince the spenders they need to have new toon x or relic level y to find success and fulfillment in this game while at the same time keep the large base of f2p population content with their lower tier in the SWGOH society thus creating an income gap for these 2 populations of players.

    The only way this works is if there is hope for success for the F2P population and you crushed that in the most recent announcement you said the rich will get richer with a new GL, a difficult to obtain capital ship and a new relic level that is now a second tier above what most have the ability to get on top of that you took away any hope of a player who is facing a GL deficit of winning in GAC and Arena and increased the level of difficulty for Hard Conquest success which is the only small source of getting the needed materials for R8 and above.

    The game has evolved and yet you still can’t throw a Crumb to your F2P base? You could add 5 salvage stun guns, cuffs and Carbanti to each daily reward for completing tasks and the f2p would rejoice at the false hope this would provide. All that gear would help them and give them joy but not help close the gap with the whales who will still be further ahead they might rejoice that it is easier to get to gear 12 while the elites are hitting R9.

    Instead the income gap grows larger and in a society where that happens revolution usually follows and when the player population drops because there is no hope for the majority of players the executives will replace you with someone new to fix the problem or the game itself will no longer grow and be what it is today. When that happens I want you to remember the definition of a progress trap.


    Also… the video was nice
  • Kyno wrote: »
    MrFear220 wrote: »
    Can the developers please make a post better explaining their reasoning behind changes like Thrawn not being able to Fracture GLs? This is an extremely niche ability found nowhere else in-game. A healthy meta is where GLs are in a league of their own, sure, but still able to be beaten with a few non-GL teams.

    They said they want GL to be mini-raid bosses. Do you need explanation why fracture can’t full stop raid bosses?

    Okay, Mr. Smarty Pants.

    It appears GLs are getting some raid boss features and not others. Why was Fracture mechanic chosen to be one where they do behave like raid bosses?

    Which other skills that have a different effect on raid bosses are not going to be changed to include GLs?

    I can ask.

    Hux and JMK’s TM Block are also on this list. JMK especially, as he might exempt himself from his own TM Manipulation Blocker.
  • AlexanderG
    1135 posts Member
    It's the nerf to Thrawn vexes me most. He's been in the game since mid 2017 and fracture has never been an issue - yes, it doesn't apply the same way to raid bosses, but it's hard to understand why after all these years it's an issue now.

    I'm not buying the investment into GLs needs to be protected argument. I think all of the GLs have non-GL counters but they are still the most powerful characters in the game. They don't need protecting. It's only CG that are saying they do and I suspect they're only saying this to try and funnel more money into GLs.
  • SerylT2
    146 posts Member
    By that logic you should nerf JMK and make JML the most powerful GL since he requires the most resources in total?

    The logic is fallible and that is because they are misdirecting us from the main reason this happening and it has everything to do with the loss of exclusivity to the Star Wars license and what I can only envision the nearing end of their contract with Disney all together. That is what actually sounds logical by these tactics and the timing of them.
  • Galactic Legends and non-GL counters/interactions:

    The community has always been excellent at puzzle-solving, theory-crafting, and finding ways to maximize the effectiveness of their rosters. The changes are meant to not only allow for more design space for powerful characters below Galactic Legends, but also to prevent situations in which a non-GL could one-shot or otherwise severely and regularly reduce the effectiveness of a Galactic Legend.

    So even with best case scenario, when you are able to beat GL without using one in a counter team, one would need more robust roster facing oponent with GLs in GAC and TW.
    Either way, will there be any changes to matchups?
  • Starslayer
    1301 posts Member
    Tomesz99 wrote: »
    I don’t understand how someone could equal f2p to no GL. I mean I am a f2p and have all 5 GL. All you need is to join a good guild and invest a significant amount of time each day (and to have some brains ofc).

    As to the changes, crazy requirements of new ship and LV, and introduction of R9, pretty much everything is in line with CG’s practice. At least they gave us a month’s notice! Isn’t that great? At the end of the day, people leave because they don’t like the game, not because of the changes; people stay because they like this game, or like to play with the friends; whales still gonna pay because, well, they are whales. In a year or 2 nobody will remember this RA.

    Sound good to have 5 GL with f2p, but tbh its hard to believe.
    I guess you play since day 1. But still how did you manage to get e.g. that much energy to unlock JMK?
    I started my f2p account at end of january, like 10 of my shard members already have GL . Someone has it since months..
    I now have 1 relic 5 FO character and 5 G12. Rest are G8-9.
    I dont see that i will unlock SLKR in months..
    So even if i have million times, i cannot compensate/accelerate the energy refresh.. so yes you need time to log in and collect energy and do the farming, but not that significat amount.
    I think i have some knowledge about the game as i read a lot but there is still a gap what you cannot overtake by just spending more time on game.
    I dont mind that there will be R9, but i dont like that i strugle a lot to get caracters from G8 to G9 and so on.
    Lets face it G8-G9-G10 is far from r9.

    If they would separate players in GAC and TW based on GL numbers then im fine with these changes.
    But it dont this wil happen. Like when my old guild with 50M GP (0 GL) faced with another 50m guild with 3 GL. That 3 GL came from 1 player, but sill it was hopeless.

    It’s not only about energy. You can earn a huge amount of gear thx to guild events (raids, tw, tb). As you grow your guild will grow with you or you should be able to find a stronger guild if your actual guild mates are not as invested in the game as you are.
    About gac (only gac, not talking about tw), if you face an opponent with a gl, it means you had the resources to get one and chose not to. Up to you, you play the game as you fancy, but don’t blame matchmaking. Use the 14 good characters you relic’d while you opponent relic’d prerequisites to try and win anyway.

  • So you say you looked at the feedback, but conveniently ignored every other post about the gear crunch and Relic 8. Why don’t you guys just man up and admit it is a cash grab? This game is eventually going to die out if you ignore your player base. I buy so much from the store, but even I’m getting **** that I can’t buy Aeromagnifiers. 90% of your players can’t access them and these new toons will be out of reach. I won’t get more until you put them on the store again, because I have no desire to leave a guild I’ve put so much into.

    Listen to your players, so many people have quit on this game, do you really want to upset the people that keep y’all in business? Seems like pulling on a loose thread don’t you think?
  • Doja and I spent most of the weekend gathering sentiment and feedback regarding the Road Ahead. Below are some of the most recurring comments we noticed, and hopefully the following responses will help clarify some of the questions and concerns you have.


    Galactic Legends and non-GL counters/interactions:

    The community has always been excellent at puzzle-solving, theory-crafting, and finding ways to maximize the effectiveness of their rosters. The changes are meant to not only allow for more design space for powerful characters below Galactic Legends, but also to prevent situations in which a non-GL could one-shot or otherwise severely and regularly reduce the effectiveness of a Galactic Legend.

    As we mentioned in the video, changing characters post launch is a last resort. There needs to be a balance between how consistent a counter is and how powerful the squad they are facing is in comparison. This is not just for squads with GLs, but for any squad that is able to counter another. For a healthy balance to the meta, counters should require a similar amount of resources to the team they can beat, whether that’s mods, gear/relic level, and/or specific units.

    GLs require a large amount of time and resources to unlock and their place in the meta should reflect the difficulty involved in unlocking them. They are late-game units and it makes sense they would be commensurate in power and effectiveness to their status as late-game roster acquisitions that take a lot of effort to acquire.


    And what should players who do not have GL have to endure for 2 years until they collect it, and during this time GL will no longer be effective. I, like many players, poured resources from pumping over packs and now all this is in the trash. Why is Thrawn needed now? He became useless like Tambor, they had 1 ability needed and you remove it. Then cut the damage to legends by 40%. How then to fight against Gl without having Gl? NO WAY?
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