Why isn’t lower GP given the win in a GAC tie?

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    KDC99X wrote: »
    I've seen this argument given a bunch of times, but it's not clear to me at all that giving the tie breaker to the lower GP account would disincentivize spending.

    Seems to me that people spend for a LOT of reasons in this game, and the off chance of winning a tie breaker in GAC, which is something that statistically happens very infrequently, is pretty low down on the list (if it makes an appearance at all).
    Screerider wrote: »
    I see no reason why CG would disincentivize spending on their game.

    While spending cash might not be affected plenty of people would justify not helping out on getting ships/characters to levels needed for operations because they don’t want to bloat their account for the exceedingly rare case of a tie.
  • Options
    KDC99X wrote: »
    Seems to me that people spend for a LOT of reasons in this game, and the off chance of winning a tie breaker in GAC, which is something that statistically happens very infrequently, is pretty low down on the list (if it makes an appearance at all).
    And yet, here we are, talking about ties.
  • KDC99X
    762 posts Member
    edited February 2023
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    Yeah, because we’re a bunch of argumentative Star Wars nerds in an online forum, and we need something to squabble about. 😂

    And as already mentioned.. no matter how they do it, someone will be upset. There’s reasonably good arguments to go about it either way. I just don’t think either outcome will have any appreciable impact on spending behavior.
    Screerider wrote: »
    KDC99X wrote: »
    Seems to me that people spend for a LOT of reasons in this game, and the off chance of winning a tie breaker in GAC, which is something that statistically happens very infrequently, is pretty low down on the list (if it makes an appearance at all).
    And yet, here we are, talking about ties.

  • Options
    If you could reuse toons in a battle that times out, you could use 1 GL to crush multiple difficult teams, always stopping just short of a win, then letting it time out, and bringing in a lesser team as a finisher while you use your GL against another strong defensive team.

    Sure, you'd lose points on the wasted first attempt, but you could guarantee yourself a full clear. And you wouldn't have to use your GL and time out as soon as you get deep enough in that you know that your best other teams can take out the untouched teams that they have remaining.

    If I knew that, I could put 6 GLs on defense and take one on offence -- repeatedly.
    Exactly.

    I’ve made this same argument to ontourallday before, though, so we can only assume he doesn’t see the flaw in his idea.

    Thats not what ive said multi times, What I said was, for that one same battle only, you can use those same toons and not add other toons to assist you. You get a straight up rematch, if you then lose your cooked. If you win, good for your, but your toons are spent.
    I didn't and haven't said take those toons to another battle at any point, I've been super clear on that also.

    there is no flaw in my idea - my idea was pretty straightforward I didn't ask you to like, or not. If the CPU gets to reuse the exact same toons, then so should you in the same battle, no add ons. how hard is that to understand?
  • Options
    If you could reuse toons in a battle that times out, you could use 1 GL to crush multiple difficult teams, always stopping just short of a win, then letting it time out, and bringing in a lesser team as a finisher while you use your GL against another strong defensive team.

    Sure, you'd lose points on the wasted first attempt, but you could guarantee yourself a full clear. And you wouldn't have to use your GL and time out as soon as you get deep enough in that you know that your best other teams can take out the untouched teams that they have remaining.

    If I knew that, I could put 6 GLs on defense and take one on offence -- repeatedly.
    Exactly.

    I’ve made this same argument to ontourallday before, though, so we can only assume he doesn’t see the flaw in his idea.

    Thats not what ive said multi times, What I said was, for that one same battle only, you can use those same toons and not add other toons to assist you. You get a straight up rematch, if you then lose your cooked. If you win, good for your, but your toons are spent.
    I didn't and haven't said take those toons to another battle at any point, I've been super clear on that also.

    there is no flaw in my idea - my idea was pretty straightforward I didn't ask you to like, or not. If the CPU gets to reuse the exact same toons, then so should you in the same battle, no add ons. how hard is that to understand?
    It’s not hard to understand. I don’t think the idea is flawed because I don’t understand the idea.

    And it can still be exploited - imagine sending in CLS with Han & Chewy et al, doing nothing til there was 1 second to go then using Han’s shoot first ability just before the battle times out to dish out some damage. Rinse and repeat enough times and you’ll win any battle.
  • Options
    There's push back because it's just not really a good idea.

    If you can't beat a squad the first time around, it's a loss. It's not that complicated.

    In terms of the advantage the opposing squad gets, there's numerous ways to deal with that: backing out before the end of match to reset, using a squad that gains bonus TM or turns at start of battle, or using a squad that can take the hits until it gets going or gets stronger as it takes damage.

    Part of the game is specifically building out your roster to account for these kind of situations.
  • scuba
    14166 posts Member
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    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Imo "higher gp" is already random enough. If it was lower gp, people would complain why it is lower when higher deserves it more, if it was random people would complain why it is random. Imo none of the two sides deserves it more, they both deserve it equally. But then giving it both the win (besides cg not wanting to dish out 2x rewards) would bork the placement system.

    This is it. It doesn't matter what system they use to determine the win, whoever ends up with a loss will feel shafted.

    At least the game is reasonably consistent in that it encourages you to be increasing your GP with things like TW brackets, TB rewards, winning ties in GAC, etc.

    Ties are so rare in GAC there's really no point in changing imo. If you're losing because of ties that often you should probably change your strategy.

    I mean saying that you need to change strategy because of a tie is just…ridiculous. It’s not overly common to tie but maru actually presented the best solution. Give both teams the win and reward them either both with the first place rewards or just pool the crystals together and split it equally. As uncommon as it can be it’s not going to be exploited.

    That actually seems like the fairest solution honestly so nobody feels shafted

    I just imagined them trying to program this and saw the game just blow up completely.
  • scuba
    14166 posts Member
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    CG already messed up with the GP based matchmaking before and pushing players to not develop rosters, they fixed it with the new skill rating system, so hells no, a game should never discourage players from activitly developing roster which is what this would do. Bloat your GP everyone, it feels great.
  • Options
    scuba wrote: »
    CG already messed up with the GP based matchmaking before and pushing players to not develop rosters, they fixed it with the new skill rating system, so hells no, a game should never discourage players from activitly developing roster which is what this would do. Bloat your GP everyone, it feels great.

    The more you bloat, the less battles you have to attempt in ROTE.
  • Ultra
    11587 posts Moderator
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    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Give both teams the win and reward them either both with the first place rewards

    Nah

    people shouldn't get a win for a draw

    That's a loss in my books
  • Ultra
    11587 posts Moderator
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    mrebey27 wrote: »
    Why shouldn't higher GP be rewarded?

    You can always purposely hold your GP back but you can't go back once you increase it

    You are also discouraging players from upgrading toons and that defeats the purpose of a hero collector game

    The whole idea and logic of "You did better than the other guy since you had lower GP" is baloney

    If you did better than the other guy you wouldn't have gotten a tie in the scores in the first place

    You both were equally good, hence the equal scores

    Some people might have lower GP but better investment in key toons / mods

    Lower GP = Better player doesn't make sense to me at all

    You’ve always been a CG windbag.

    If you spent less time calling names and more time getting better at the game, you wouldn't be complaining ITT
  • Options
    If you could reuse toons in a battle that times out, you could use 1 GL to crush multiple difficult teams, always stopping just short of a win, then letting it time out, and bringing in a lesser team as a finisher while you use your GL against another strong defensive team.

    Sure, you'd lose points on the wasted first attempt, but you could guarantee yourself a full clear. And you wouldn't have to use your GL and time out as soon as you get deep enough in that you know that your best other teams can take out the untouched teams that they have remaining.

    If I knew that, I could put 6 GLs on defense and take one on offence -- repeatedly.
    Exactly.

    I’ve made this same argument to ontourallday before, though, so we can only assume he doesn’t see the flaw in his idea.

    Thats not what ive said multi times, What I said was, for that one same battle only, you can use those same toons and not add other toons to assist you. You get a straight up rematch, if you then lose your cooked. If you win, good for your, but your toons are spent.
    I didn't and haven't said take those toons to another battle at any point, I've been super clear on that also.

    there is no flaw in my idea - my idea was pretty straightforward I didn't ask you to like, or not. If the CPU gets to reuse the exact same toons, then so should you in the same battle, no add ons. how hard is that to understand?
    It’s not hard to understand. I don’t think the idea is flawed because I don’t understand the idea.

    And it can still be exploited - imagine sending in CLS with Han & Chewy et al, doing nothing til there was 1 second to go then using Han’s shoot first ability just before the battle times out to dish out some damage. Rinse and repeat enough times and you’ll win any battle.

    So whats the difference of that and the CPU using mother tarzin to regen her squad on her first turn when you go back into battle?

    The CPU 99/100 regens their chars on the first and second turn of the second battle, its happened to me so many times and instead of only using two squads you end up using 3.
  • TVF
    36766 posts Member
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    Not every team has regen, solution is to kill anything that does first time.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Options
    TVF wrote: »
    Not every team has regen, solution is to kill anything that does first time.

    Or time the timeout for when you know those abilities are on cooldown.
  • Options
    Ultra wrote: »
    mrebey27 wrote: »
    Why shouldn't higher GP be rewarded?

    You can always purposely hold your GP back but you can't go back once you increase it

    You are also discouraging players from upgrading toons and that defeats the purpose of a hero collector game

    The whole idea and logic of "You did better than the other guy since you had lower GP" is baloney

    If you did better than the other guy you wouldn't have gotten a tie in the scores in the first place

    You both were equally good, hence the equal scores

    Some people might have lower GP but better investment in key toons / mods

    Lower GP = Better player doesn't make sense to me at all

    You’ve always been a CG windbag.

    If you spent less time calling names and more time getting better at the game, you wouldn't be complaining ITT

    I guarantee I’m ranked higher than you in GAC.
  • Options
    mrebey27 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    mrebey27 wrote: »
    Why shouldn't higher GP be rewarded?

    You can always purposely hold your GP back but you can't go back once you increase it

    You are also discouraging players from upgrading toons and that defeats the purpose of a hero collector game

    The whole idea and logic of "You did better than the other guy since you had lower GP" is baloney

    If you did better than the other guy you wouldn't have gotten a tie in the scores in the first place

    You both were equally good, hence the equal scores

    Some people might have lower GP but better investment in key toons / mods

    Lower GP = Better player doesn't make sense to me at all

    You’ve always been a CG windbag.

    If you spent less time calling names and more time getting better at the game, you wouldn't be complaining ITT

    I guarantee I’m ranked higher than you in GAC.

    That's not hard. I don't think Ultra is even ranked in GAC.
  • Options
    crzydroid wrote: »
    Shouldn't they win for being able to tie you, the better player?

    This was my argument toooooo....
    Started to play: Oct 30, 2022 --- Ally code: 628-998-777 --- My links: swgoh.gg | youtube | My SWGOH journey | NORDIC KINGDOM is recruiting
  • Ultra
    11587 posts Moderator
    Options
    mrebey27 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    mrebey27 wrote: »
    Why shouldn't higher GP be rewarded?

    You can always purposely hold your GP back but you can't go back once you increase it

    You are also discouraging players from upgrading toons and that defeats the purpose of a hero collector game

    The whole idea and logic of "You did better than the other guy since you had lower GP" is baloney

    If you did better than the other guy you wouldn't have gotten a tie in the scores in the first place

    You both were equally good, hence the equal scores

    Some people might have lower GP but better investment in key toons / mods

    Lower GP = Better player doesn't make sense to me at all

    You’ve always been a CG windbag.

    If you spent less time calling names and more time getting better at the game, you wouldn't be complaining ITT

    I guarantee I’m ranked higher than you in GAC.

    Congrats!

    I'm not a sore loser :smile:

    if someone does better than me, good on them and well played

    but what does our GAC ranks have anything to do with our conversation?
  • Options
    Ultra wrote: »
    mrebey27 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    mrebey27 wrote: »
    Why shouldn't higher GP be rewarded?

    You can always purposely hold your GP back but you can't go back once you increase it

    You are also discouraging players from upgrading toons and that defeats the purpose of a hero collector game

    The whole idea and logic of "You did better than the other guy since you had lower GP" is baloney

    If you did better than the other guy you wouldn't have gotten a tie in the scores in the first place

    You both were equally good, hence the equal scores

    Some people might have lower GP but better investment in key toons / mods

    Lower GP = Better player doesn't make sense to me at all

    You’ve always been a CG windbag.

    If you spent less time calling names and more time getting better at the game, you wouldn't be complaining ITT

    I guarantee I’m ranked higher than you in GAC.

    Congrats!

    I'm not a sore loser :smile:

    if someone does better than me, good on them and well played

    but what does our GAC ranks have anything to do with our conversation?

    Maybe they think your arguments are tied?

    They're trying to work out who gets the win.
  • Options
    Perhaps the winner should be the one who screams the loudest that they want free stuff?
  • Ultra
    11587 posts Moderator
    Options
    Ultra wrote: »
    mrebey27 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    mrebey27 wrote: »
    Why shouldn't higher GP be rewarded?

    You can always purposely hold your GP back but you can't go back once you increase it

    You are also discouraging players from upgrading toons and that defeats the purpose of a hero collector game

    The whole idea and logic of "You did better than the other guy since you had lower GP" is baloney

    If you did better than the other guy you wouldn't have gotten a tie in the scores in the first place

    You both were equally good, hence the equal scores

    Some people might have lower GP but better investment in key toons / mods

    Lower GP = Better player doesn't make sense to me at all

    You’ve always been a CG windbag.

    If you spent less time calling names and more time getting better at the game, you wouldn't be complaining ITT

    I guarantee I’m ranked higher than you in GAC.

    Congrats!

    I'm not a sore loser :smile:

    if someone does better than me, good on them and well played

    but what does our GAC ranks have anything to do with our conversation?

    Maybe they think your arguments are tied?

    They're trying to work out who gets the win.

    kanye-kanye-west.gif
  • Options
    Screerider wrote: »
    Perhaps the winner should be the one who screams the loudest that they want free stuff?

    Nobody has been screaming about free stuff.
    Ultra wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Give both teams the win and reward them either both with the first place rewards

    Nah

    people shouldn't get a win for a draw

    That's a loss in my books

    But how is that a loss? It’s literally a draw lol. That’s why the discussion is should the lower GP get the nod for punching up; or the higher GP for spending/roster bloating more?
  • Options
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Screerider wrote: »
    Perhaps the winner should be the one who screams the loudest that they want free stuff?

    Nobody has been screaming about free stuff.
    Ultra wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Give both teams the win and reward them either both with the first place rewards

    Nah

    people shouldn't get a win for a draw

    That's a loss in my books

    But how is that a loss? It’s literally a draw lol. That’s why the discussion is should the lower GP get the nod for punching up; or the higher GP for spending/roster bloating more?

    Maybe Ultra is saying what noone yet proposed: both side should get a loss!
  • Options
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Screerider wrote: »
    Perhaps the winner should be the one who screams the loudest that they want free stuff?

    Nobody has been screaming about free stuff.
    Ok. I thought the loser of the tie was asking for winner rewards.
  • Options
    Screerider wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Screerider wrote: »
    Perhaps the winner should be the one who screams the loudest that they want free stuff?

    Nobody has been screaming about free stuff.
    Ok. I thought the loser of the tie was asking for winner rewards.

    No, actually it’s been a discussion about what option is better as a tie breaker. The higher GP bloating/developing/spending more to have that number or the lower GP punching up to tie someone with more available to them. As well as tossing other ideas around including splitting the rewards down the middle for a tie that round, but still logging it as a “win” for the higher GP or otherwise to settle up for the end of week and end of season rewards; and of course for skill points.
  • Options
    Ah. Asking for half-winner rewards then.
  • Options
    It's funny how people always say the same when they run out of arguments: "you're asking for free stuff that you don't deserve!!!".
    I'm not unhappy with the current system, but it is an interesting debate.
  • Options
    What makes you say I've "run out of arguments"? Sounds like wishful thinking.
  • Options
    If you could reuse toons in a battle that times out, you could use 1 GL to crush multiple difficult teams, always stopping just short of a win, then letting it time out, and bringing in a lesser team as a finisher while you use your GL against another strong defensive team.

    Sure, you'd lose points on the wasted first attempt, but you could guarantee yourself a full clear. And you wouldn't have to use your GL and time out as soon as you get deep enough in that you know that your best other teams can take out the untouched teams that they have remaining.

    If I knew that, I could put 6 GLs on defense and take one on offence -- repeatedly.
    Exactly.

    I’ve made this same argument to ontourallday before, though, so we can only assume he doesn’t see the flaw in his idea.

    Thats not what ive said multi times, What I said was, for that one same battle only, you can use those same toons and not add other toons to assist you. You get a straight up rematch, if you then lose your cooked. If you win, good for your, but your toons are spent.
    I didn't and haven't said take those toons to another battle at any point, I've been super clear on that also.

    there is no flaw in my idea - my idea was pretty straightforward I didn't ask you to like, or not. If the CPU gets to reuse the exact same toons, then so should you in the same battle, no add ons. how hard is that to understand?
    It’s not hard to understand. I don’t think the idea is flawed because I don’t understand the idea.

    And it can still be exploited - imagine sending in CLS with Han & Chewy et al, doing nothing til there was 1 second to go then using Han’s shoot first ability just before the battle times out to dish out some damage. Rinse and repeat enough times and you’ll win any battle.

    So whats the difference of that and the CPU using mother tarzin to regen her squad on her first turn when you go back into battle?

    The CPU 99/100 regens their chars on the first and second turn of the second battle, its happened to me so many times and instead of only using two squads you end up using 3.
    Sorry - are you claiming that Talzin can revive allies that were killed in a previous battle? Because that is impossible.
  • Options
    If you could reuse toons in a battle that times out, you could use 1 GL to crush multiple difficult teams, always stopping just short of a win, then letting it time out, and bringing in a lesser team as a finisher while you use your GL against another strong defensive team.

    Sure, you'd lose points on the wasted first attempt, but you could guarantee yourself a full clear. And you wouldn't have to use your GL and time out as soon as you get deep enough in that you know that your best other teams can take out the untouched teams that they have remaining.

    If I knew that, I could put 6 GLs on defense and take one on offence -- repeatedly.
    Exactly.

    I’ve made this same argument to ontourallday before, though, so we can only assume he doesn’t see the flaw in his idea.

    Thats not what ive said multi times, What I said was, for that one same battle only, you can use those same toons and not add other toons to assist you. You get a straight up rematch, if you then lose your cooked. If you win, good for your, but your toons are spent.
    I didn't and haven't said take those toons to another battle at any point, I've been super clear on that also.

    there is no flaw in my idea - my idea was pretty straightforward I didn't ask you to like, or not. If the CPU gets to reuse the exact same toons, then so should you in the same battle, no add ons. how hard is that to understand?
    It’s not hard to understand. I don’t think the idea is flawed because I don’t understand the idea.

    And it can still be exploited - imagine sending in CLS with Han & Chewy et al, doing nothing til there was 1 second to go then using Han’s shoot first ability just before the battle times out to dish out some damage. Rinse and repeat enough times and you’ll win any battle.

    So whats the difference of that and the CPU using mother tarzin to regen her squad on her first turn when you go back into battle?

    The CPU 99/100 regens their chars on the first and second turn of the second battle, its happened to me so many times and instead of only using two squads you end up using 3.
    Sorry - are you claiming that Talzin can revive allies that were killed in a previous battle? Because that is impossible.

    No i'm not and for some reason you seem to try and change what I commented and turn it into something else. I also don't need you to attempt to correct everything I suggest, its obvious you don't like my ideas.


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