I am furious at finding out that the Krayt raid doesn't pay out any of the rewards that we were promised. Now all we get is a handful of useless currency from a garbage selection in an overcluttered and confusing shop.
I no longer have a way to earn most of the gear or mats I relied on from raids before the update. Especially the CPit that we were capable of completing on a regular basis.
"Rewards will be updated to reflect this new event format." Where are the rewards we were promised?
Everyone assumed that hitting the Krayt raid would have started rewards at a fair amount (more than the HSith rewards) to reflect what I should personally be capable of earning as well as what my guild is capable of earning. Not only is this not the case as promised, but my entire guild is now receiving drastically reduced rewards than we were previously earning.
Now starting guilds will never have a chance at progressing. When I started this game many years ago, raid rewards felt like over 60% of my personal progress. Now with them removed, what are new guilds supposed to do?
This is what the HSith would have given everyone in guild.
mk1 8475
mk2 4000
This is what I personally received from the new Krayt raid with guild and personal rewards added together.
mk1 5150
This is absolutely unacceptable. I feel cheated and lied to. I demand compensation.
So … as a largely F2P player I’ve relied on raid rewards (and fleet crystals) to advance in this game. I could finish top 3 in sith raid consistently. 5.5M GP with GL and exec. Guild shards from han / GK shards also helped with relic mats from scavenger.
With the new raid … I can’t even earn any currency to get ANY gold gear. Or relic mats. I can buy some mk9 purple gear. My guild has 300m gp and we will barely get out of purple gear rewards at all.
I almost have jabba unlocked.. but even then .. i will not get much further on this “reward” track.
How on earth am i supposed to proceed any further in this game? Save crystals for a month at a time to buy one gold piece a month and maybe relic a couple characters a year? (Exaggeration but that is what it sure feels like).
Raid rewards kept me in this.
I have no idea if you expierienced 2016 in this game but it was a nightmare to play this game, everything was really hard to get,long time farms. F2p players were getting scraps. It got better lately but this update changed everything back to previous long time farm.
I hear you.
I quit this game in 2016, right after mods were introduced. Made the game much harder for us guppies. This is, to me, not *quite* as game breaking as that was, but it sure pushes me in that direction.
the other ones were deleted because they were inflammatory and asked people to boycott, which is strictly prohibited.
this seems to me, a fairly well thought out and accurate post.
It's a little "over the top" but it's understandable that some folks are upset....
It's a bit too early to be making snap judgements about content that is kess than a day old (especially since the folks complaining have had less than a half day to play it and analyze it)....
This thread is getting derailed. Let's get back to focusing on the one thing everyone can agree on: CG explicitly stated that the new reward system would be equal to what people were earning before from all raids, and at higher difficulties, would even be better (Eyo quoted it earlier, but see below again- the red emphasis is from CG's original post). I don't think anyone is claiming the new rewards are better; I don't think anyone is even claiming they are equal. The consensus seems to be that they are in fact worse. So there should be some explanation of this discrepancy of what was promised vs. what was delivered, and hopefully, a promise to review and improve the reward system going forward.
So this is what I think cg will argue about their statement which will make it just misleading not outright lying. Hstr and cpit aren’t simmed raids and therefore they never promised to give us access to those rewards. Those raids served their purpose and the rewards were too generous going forward for “the health of the game.” Obviously it’s all excrement from an animal of your choosing but this is how they think they can tell us they didn’t lie to the player base.
Imo CG should just put the old raids back on sim and put the old rewards back in, sometimes what you plan and work hard doesnt pan out and adjustments must be made, it has happened with every long running game, anywhere from star wars the old republic all the way to world of warcraft.
Hey CG. I'm a guy that has probably spent around 6k on this game. Nowadays I spend around a 100/200 euros a month on your game and I swear I won't spend a single cent again before you re-structure and better the raid rewards. You are literally screwing your whole playerbase over by reducing the rewards. I hope all spenders join me in boycotting this player-unfriendly company. Shame on you for making a celebration day into a big money grabbing scam. But I'm not so much surprised anymore by your actions CG a.k.a Cash Grabbing Games
Given that this game is number crunchey CG used to give us math behind changes and rationale attached to that. We got this numerous times with tables especially for big shifts in the game like the gac change (and arena crystal concerns). This time...just a statement, a plausible statement since this shift naturally is expected to be in the ballpark of what it replaces.
I'm not that worried though, I bet cg figureheads also knows this won't fly and they'll drag their feet per usual (a few months) and adjust it.
Wow, you guys weren't kidding about rewards in the Krayt Raid. I just did a compare of rewards and looks like unless you can get 94M as a guild with top 15 players getting ~5M each, you are better off just doing HSTR raid. That's a pretty disappointing reward structure and doesn't encourage tackling the harder raid. And this is just a straight compare of the new HSTR rewards vs Krayt, not even addressing the gap between new rewards and the old raid rewards of simmed HAAT + simmed Pit + HSTR + CPit.
I actually like the new raid, but it is hard to justify having the guild do it from a rewards perspective.
Here is a quick compare of Maxxed HSTR vs Krayt rewards:
If you take into account 94m box for an average of 1.88m per guildmate, each player will get
Guild rewards: 4260+1815
Personal rewards: 4215+ 660
so 8475+2475 total
versus for last crate in Hsith raid: 8475+4000 + 10 Traya shards
So if you can only reach 94m box, HSith wins
Now for the 130m, that an average of 2.6m per guildmate. So each player will get:
Guild rewards: 4260+2475+675
Personal rewards: 4215+1320
so 8475+3795+675 total
And Mk3 are worth a lot. So if you can reach 130m box, Krayt wins.
TL;dr: Krayt is worth it for your guild as soon as you reach the 130m box.
What is the point to concern which crapy nerfed raid rewards are better?
Even if you would get maxed personal and max guild it is still much less than you were getting before update...
I don’t control the changes in rewards made by CG.
I do control which raid i’ll be running to get the most rewards out of the new raid structure.
I play with the cards dealt to me and i’m willing to share with other players on the forum so they’ll optimize their rewards (or they correct me if I made a mistake). That is the point you were looking for.
To be more clear I think cg believes 130 guild 3.4 million personal justifies rewards equal to sim pit/tank. 520/10.2 or whatever should equal sim pit/tank plus hstr plus some for krayt. Cpit rewards aren’t considered. This was obviously not communicated clearly nor anywhere near the player expectations nor does it follow the precedent of conquest where the first crate would have equaled sim pit/tank plus hstr and every thing else being what krayt should reward you even if they were removing cpit from consideration
One of the things I liked about CPit (wasn't playing when older raids came out) was seeing our guild progress and "only one raid at a time" doesn't let you do that. There's a very clear reward loss for doing KD if you can't hit guild chest 4. Which seems like a very glaring oversight on the part of the devs.
Just to let folks know, I am reading through these and reporting feedback to the rest of the team.
You’ll see it within the next 48 hours once everyone has had a chance to finish the current raid. When you see the majority of the guilds doing HSITH versus Krayt insert “This is the way” Mandalorian gif. Honestly Meathead I think you guys did a good job of the new raid but totally screwed up the rewards to the point there’s no incentive to play the new raid unless you’re in a whale guild.
I don’t understand why the Pit Challenge raid was removed. Guilds emphasized that their members develop teams for this raid and now it’s not even an option to run anymore.
I'm still reading the comments also, but figure i'll toss in my 2 cents.
The new RAID is boring. Doing the same battle 5 times with 5 different teams... I want some different views/battles.
The new RAID graphics are nice! I love the harpoon effects.
My guild (350 m GP) is going back to HSTR because the rewards will be better.
My guild will no longer be earning ANY Aero's due to this. Not sure how that is equivalent to previous rewards. I would like to see the math on that if available.
Frankly, the best way to fix this is to bring the old RAIDs back to the old system (adding SIM for both Cranky & HSTR). Than have all new RAIDs use this new system. That will return the rewards we were getting & allow use to do multiple RAIDs at once (not simming if we want).
THANK YOU! for acknowledging the login issues and planning the additional double drops & crystal gift.
I still love the game, but this new RAID system is bad.
I was under the impression that the rewards would be good enough for us to not need the old raid rewards. I thought this is why they were taken away. In a game where there really isn't much playing to be done, aside from when Conquest is live. I don't see why you'd take raids away. Why take content away? Players farmed Cpit teams for a long time and now that's gone. These changes just make me scratch my head. And don't get me started on the currencies....
Just to let folks know, I am reading through these and reporting feedback to the rest of the team.
Thanks….but huh? They had to know that the rewards were a giant step back. You are going to provide feedback on what? That the player base is unhappy? How could they have not know this before release? We all know the did or they would have released the reward structure in advance…we all knew why. They know why…and surprise here we are. This is seems very disingenuous…but I guess par for the course.
With this seeming to be the best place here on the forums to put this info (though I've also already given these thoughts to Meathead on Discord) -
First off, to reiterate what a lot of folks have said: the raid itself is great. It's beautiful, it's a great representation of a cinematic moment via gameplay mechanics, and most importantly it's just fun. Props to everyone who was involved with the gameplay elements, you have knocked this one out of the park.
Unfortunately, the fact that the raid is so good makes the situation feel worse, because we've got some big rewards issues. The first, and most important to me, is this: for a large group, I daresay the vast majority, of players the achievable rewards for the krayt reward do not come close to bringing us to parity to the sum of all that was lost. Meaning that most players are seeing a drop, a dramatic drop even, in player economy. We've lost regular credits, regular guild currency (btw this is a big loss for new players who relied on guild currency to unlock the units specific to the guild store), regular shard shop currency, along with the regular gear rewards. Many of us are in guilds that have been focused on Rise of the Empire TB and do not have Jabba, much less many of the other krayt teams built, and this feels like a punishment for having kept our noses to the grindstone and finishing our RotE Ops character and Inquisitors instead of dropping that preparation and pivoting toward the krayt characters.
Progression should never be backwards, and in the history of this game I can't remember a time like this where it has been:
When HAAT released, it was additive. You could still get everything you were getting in HPit, but you couldn't get HAAT rewards (including GK) until your guild progressed to that point.
when HSTR released, it was additive. You could still get everything you were getting from HPit and HAAT, but couldn't get HSTR rewards (including Traya), until your guild progressed to that point.
When CPit released, it followed the same pattern. Old content was not invalidated, but the new content presented something *new* (Relic 8) to work towards.
Now the change... When Krayt released, you *cannot* get everything you were getting before, your guild has to progress to re-earn what you were previously getting.
Simply put, players have had their economy ripped out from under them and the current system exists to force you to progress, not to earn something new and exciting, but simply to claw your way back to where you were before.
Worse still, for many guilds (like mine, which as mentioned has banded together quite well and focused strongly on RotE, something which feels like we are now being punished for) the economical choice at the moment is not to engage with the new, fun, and exciting content. It's far better for us to stick with HSTR as-is, which is far less than the sum of what we lost in HAAT/HPit/HSTR/CPit but still more than what we can earn with Krayt.
What needs to be done:
Bring the Max HSTR rewards up to roughly match the sum of what was lost, including credits, shard currency, and guild currency. This makes it so that players are not facing backwards progression from what was available before and aren't faced with the demoralizing task of "earning" their way back to where they were.
Bring the Krayt rewards up so that lower Krayt rewards are still better than HSTR currently, so that guilds aren't put into the position of having to skip out on the new content just because HSTR is better than what they can achieve with Krayt.
In the future, don't release raids with no new rewards. Some new progression is needed to make the raid interesting and worth investing in. Raid units are popular and would have made this raid much more exciting to engage with.
I appreciate all those who have done the math. Raid rewards are a very important part in our progression, so please make sure that what an average guild can buy per week from the new currencies is equivalent to what we would've received from the previous 4 raids simultaneously, which is currently not the case. It is troubling that most of us have lost access to aeromagnifyers. I was looking forward to an easier way to relic characters (you know, because CG said they wanted us engaging with the relic system), not the opposite. Please increase the rewards accordingly.
Just to let folks know, I am reading through these and reporting feedback to the rest of the team.
The mind just boggles how they could possibly think that any of these changes are going to please the people who ultimately pay their wages and actually make them want to even play the game, let alone part with their cash.
The only thing that was of any benefit to the players was making the toon shards more accessible.
Just to let folks know, I am reading through these and reporting feedback to the rest of the team.
Here's what I think would be an excellent set of changes to fix the raid economy that they seem to have broken:
- add Challenge tiers to all legacy raids (above heroic, bringing back CPIT). R3 minimum requirement, rewards include Mk3 raid currency. This gives R8 and R9 materials better access opportunity for low level guilds who can't complete the Krayt raid yet.
- add Get1/Get2 currency in relation to difficulty of the raid. Standard max rewards 400 GET1, Heroic: 800 GET1 + 400 GET2, Challenge: 1200 GET1 + 800 GET2. Scale down from max rewards for each crate by the same percentage of raid currency currently awarded.
- add Credits; ship materials, and guild tokens back to rewards, once again scaled with difficulty and crate awarded.
- half (or at minimum reduce by 25%) the cost of G12-13 gear prices in raid currency. You used to have a chance at a fully crafted G13 piece with high placement in HSith raid. With current max rewards in the same raid, you cannot buy the salvage needed to craft nearly any full piece of G13 gear.
- add injector salvage and kyrotrchs to Challenge tiers
I honestly believe those few changes would really help. It adds more variance for the events, gives actual meaning to the legacy raids, and helps rebalance the gear economy around the raid system.
Highly doubt my suggestion will make it up the chain much less be considered, but it's worth a shot.
Just to let folks know, I am reading through these and reporting feedback to the rest of the team.
Since you are reading these comments, I figure I will add some of my own constructive feedback
I think there are a lot of things to like about the raid. The fact that I can play at whatever time is convenient to me during the raid is great. I am no longer competing against my guild to get the best rewards. The fact that there are limited factions is not bad if it allows raids to be created more often. Also, I think the designers did awesome with the look of the raid and the mechanics. It seems much better than the last CPit raid.
For complaints, the first isn't major, but does make the system harder to work with. By having 3 raid currencies that all look so similar and having so many items in the shipments, it makes it very difficult to find things to purchase. Scrolling around to find the items and then trying to figure out if it is Mk 1, Mk 2, or Mk 3 currency is really harder than it should be.
Now for the one main complaint like everybody else has, the rewards. I have been tracking my raid rewards (along with other rewards) for the last 2 years. Using that data, I made a conservative estimate of my weekly Raid tokens that I would need to get an equivalent amount of gear. I say conservative because I never included credits, guild event tokens, or character shards in my calculations. I also used the lower end of the range that you had given in the image of things to purchase rather than finding the exact value in the stores. There are also a few items that can no longer be purchased using the Raid tokens that I had earned in rewards such as Mk 12 ArmaTek Tactical Data Prototype Salvage and Mk 3 Sienar Holo Projector Salvage. Now, if everybody in my guild averages over 2.6M points in order to get the Mk 3 tokens, and if we get 600 daily tickets, I will get 172 extra Mk 3 tokens per week, but be short almost 8k Mk 2 tokens per week. This will be a lot less gear going forward. Even if all guild members were to get to 10.4M points to get the max rewards, there would still be a Mk 2 shortage. I guess the Mk 3 makes up for it since that would get an extra 10k per week and go towards a lot of relic material.
All that said, if the Mk 2 tokens were bumped up in the early reward boxes as well as including some Guild Tokens, GET, and maybe credits throughout the rewards system to avoid needing to spend tokens on them, I think that would be sufficient and would also help with making the Krayt raid beneficial to run over just going back to the Sith raid to get more Mk 2 tokens.
I am really trying hard to trust CG (I know I need my head examined!) I hope you are looking at the stats of guilds getting relic8 mats now vs. with cpit before and adjust. If you don’t want to add them to the raid and adjust them, please increase them in TW and lower the guild GP amount to the lowest level guild that completed c-pit. It’s not cool to move the goal post so many guilds spent well over a year trying to build teams, bring in mercs then finally beating it themselves all for relic 8 mats. The rest was ok, but the big focus was the relic8. Now that has been removed. Tell you what I am sure most people, there have their degree. What happened if you went and did your 4 years had the goal in sight and right when you get it, they say, oh sorry, we need that back you have 2 years and all these classes did not show up until now oh and yes your 4 year degree now takes longer than a masters. That’s pretty much what you did for a big part of your player base. If nothing else add the relic 8 mats to hstr or add them to the personal rewards, and the new raid people still can use to get the relic 9 mats. Oh, one last thing it took around 225-250 GP guild to beat c-pit. 300 mil guild for tw relic 9. Now I know it's new but you are looking at 400 mil guild for relic 8 mats now. Your progression has a major flaw. Please do something because what you did NOT COOL
And no kyros in the get store, before you could get sometimes some pieces of kyrotech or even 50 if u were lucky, now i havent seen them in the store, neither my guildmates
Replies
I no longer have a way to earn most of the gear or mats I relied on from raids before the update. Especially the CPit that we were capable of completing on a regular basis.
"Rewards will be updated to reflect this new event format." Where are the rewards we were promised?
Everyone assumed that hitting the Krayt raid would have started rewards at a fair amount (more than the HSith rewards) to reflect what I should personally be capable of earning as well as what my guild is capable of earning. Not only is this not the case as promised, but my entire guild is now receiving drastically reduced rewards than we were previously earning.
Now starting guilds will never have a chance at progressing. When I started this game many years ago, raid rewards felt like over 60% of my personal progress. Now with them removed, what are new guilds supposed to do?
This is what the HSith would have given everyone in guild.
mk1 8475
mk2 4000
This is what I personally received from the new Krayt raid with guild and personal rewards added together.
mk1 5150
This is absolutely unacceptable. I feel cheated and lied to. I demand compensation.
I hear you.
I quit this game in 2016, right after mods were introduced. Made the game much harder for us guppies. This is, to me, not *quite* as game breaking as that was, but it sure pushes me in that direction.
I hope they fix this, otherwise…
And just look at what you've been missing!
So this is what I think cg will argue about their statement which will make it just misleading not outright lying. Hstr and cpit aren’t simmed raids and therefore they never promised to give us access to those rewards. Those raids served their purpose and the rewards were too generous going forward for “the health of the game.” Obviously it’s all excrement from an animal of your choosing but this is how they think they can tell us they didn’t lie to the player base.
Episode X: Return of the Old Raids
I'm not that worried though, I bet cg figureheads also knows this won't fly and they'll drag their feet per usual (a few months) and adjust it.
I don’t control the changes in rewards made by CG.
I do control which raid i’ll be running to get the most rewards out of the new raid structure.
I play with the cards dealt to me and i’m willing to share with other players on the forum so they’ll optimize their rewards (or they correct me if I made a mistake). That is the point you were looking for.
The new RAID is boring. Doing the same battle 5 times with 5 different teams... I want some different views/battles.
The new RAID graphics are nice! I love the harpoon effects.
My guild (350 m GP) is going back to HSTR because the rewards will be better.
My guild will no longer be earning ANY Aero's due to this. Not sure how that is equivalent to previous rewards. I would like to see the math on that if available.
Frankly, the best way to fix this is to bring the old RAIDs back to the old system (adding SIM for both Cranky & HSTR). Than have all new RAIDs use this new system. That will return the rewards we were getting & allow use to do multiple RAIDs at once (not simming if we want).
THANK YOU! for acknowledging the login issues and planning the additional double drops & crystal gift.
I still love the game, but this new RAID system is bad.
Don't even joke about this...CG will see it and be like: "See, one person liked it. No changes!"
Thanks….but huh? They had to know that the rewards were a giant step back. You are going to provide feedback on what? That the player base is unhappy? How could they have not know this before release? We all know the did or they would have released the reward structure in advance…we all knew why. They know why…and surprise here we are. This is seems very disingenuous…but I guess par for the course.
First off, to reiterate what a lot of folks have said: the raid itself is great. It's beautiful, it's a great representation of a cinematic moment via gameplay mechanics, and most importantly it's just fun. Props to everyone who was involved with the gameplay elements, you have knocked this one out of the park.
Unfortunately, the fact that the raid is so good makes the situation feel worse, because we've got some big rewards issues. The first, and most important to me, is this: for a large group, I daresay the vast majority, of players the achievable rewards for the krayt reward do not come close to bringing us to parity to the sum of all that was lost. Meaning that most players are seeing a drop, a dramatic drop even, in player economy. We've lost regular credits, regular guild currency (btw this is a big loss for new players who relied on guild currency to unlock the units specific to the guild store), regular shard shop currency, along with the regular gear rewards. Many of us are in guilds that have been focused on Rise of the Empire TB and do not have Jabba, much less many of the other krayt teams built, and this feels like a punishment for having kept our noses to the grindstone and finishing our RotE Ops character and Inquisitors instead of dropping that preparation and pivoting toward the krayt characters.
Progression should never be backwards, and in the history of this game I can't remember a time like this where it has been:
Simply put, players have had their economy ripped out from under them and the current system exists to force you to progress, not to earn something new and exciting, but simply to claw your way back to where you were before.
Worse still, for many guilds (like mine, which as mentioned has banded together quite well and focused strongly on RotE, something which feels like we are now being punished for) the economical choice at the moment is not to engage with the new, fun, and exciting content. It's far better for us to stick with HSTR as-is, which is far less than the sum of what we lost in HAAT/HPit/HSTR/CPit but still more than what we can earn with Krayt.
What needs to be done:
The mind just boggles how they could possibly think that any of these changes are going to please the people who ultimately pay their wages and actually make them want to even play the game, let alone part with their cash.
The only thing that was of any benefit to the players was making the toon shards more accessible.
The mynocks have proverbally chewed on the cables
Here's what I think would be an excellent set of changes to fix the raid economy that they seem to have broken:
- add Challenge tiers to all legacy raids (above heroic, bringing back CPIT). R3 minimum requirement, rewards include Mk3 raid currency. This gives R8 and R9 materials better access opportunity for low level guilds who can't complete the Krayt raid yet.
- add Get1/Get2 currency in relation to difficulty of the raid. Standard max rewards 400 GET1, Heroic: 800 GET1 + 400 GET2, Challenge: 1200 GET1 + 800 GET2. Scale down from max rewards for each crate by the same percentage of raid currency currently awarded.
- add Credits; ship materials, and guild tokens back to rewards, once again scaled with difficulty and crate awarded.
- half (or at minimum reduce by 25%) the cost of G12-13 gear prices in raid currency. You used to have a chance at a fully crafted G13 piece with high placement in HSith raid. With current max rewards in the same raid, you cannot buy the salvage needed to craft nearly any full piece of G13 gear.
- add injector salvage and kyrotrchs to Challenge tiers
I honestly believe those few changes would really help. It adds more variance for the events, gives actual meaning to the legacy raids, and helps rebalance the gear economy around the raid system.
Highly doubt my suggestion will make it up the chain much less be considered, but it's worth a shot.
Since you are reading these comments, I figure I will add some of my own constructive feedback
I think there are a lot of things to like about the raid. The fact that I can play at whatever time is convenient to me during the raid is great. I am no longer competing against my guild to get the best rewards. The fact that there are limited factions is not bad if it allows raids to be created more often. Also, I think the designers did awesome with the look of the raid and the mechanics. It seems much better than the last CPit raid.
For complaints, the first isn't major, but does make the system harder to work with. By having 3 raid currencies that all look so similar and having so many items in the shipments, it makes it very difficult to find things to purchase. Scrolling around to find the items and then trying to figure out if it is Mk 1, Mk 2, or Mk 3 currency is really harder than it should be.
Now for the one main complaint like everybody else has, the rewards. I have been tracking my raid rewards (along with other rewards) for the last 2 years. Using that data, I made a conservative estimate of my weekly Raid tokens that I would need to get an equivalent amount of gear. I say conservative because I never included credits, guild event tokens, or character shards in my calculations. I also used the lower end of the range that you had given in the image of things to purchase rather than finding the exact value in the stores. There are also a few items that can no longer be purchased using the Raid tokens that I had earned in rewards such as Mk 12 ArmaTek Tactical Data Prototype Salvage and Mk 3 Sienar Holo Projector Salvage. Now, if everybody in my guild averages over 2.6M points in order to get the Mk 3 tokens, and if we get 600 daily tickets, I will get 172 extra Mk 3 tokens per week, but be short almost 8k Mk 2 tokens per week. This will be a lot less gear going forward. Even if all guild members were to get to 10.4M points to get the max rewards, there would still be a Mk 2 shortage. I guess the Mk 3 makes up for it since that would get an extra 10k per week and go towards a lot of relic material.
All that said, if the Mk 2 tokens were bumped up in the early reward boxes as well as including some Guild Tokens, GET, and maybe credits throughout the rewards system to avoid needing to spend tokens on them, I think that would be sufficient and would also help with making the Krayt raid beneficial to run over just going back to the Sith raid to get more Mk 2 tokens.
In case anyone needs a lesson in trolling, here you go.