But yea, be my guest pretend playing as if investment viewpoint justifies the current reva power level. Then change your tune once cg cuts to toon to a lower size. No surprises there xD
Why shouldn't Reva beat GL?..... She certainly requires a lot more investment...
I didn't say she shouldn't beat a gl. This is not a boolean equation of "beat a gl y/n."
Maybe not, but it is the topic of the thread and the original post.....
If you aren't concerned about Reva beating GL then what exactly are you concerned about?
There are degrees of things. Like I said it's not "does this thing beat a gl?". I have all the gl and I'll soon have her unlocked. I still don't like the severity of power shift. Do you have first hand experience playing with or against her?
In short power creep begets power creep. Power has always crept as this is the nature of this type of games. This particular creep is too much creep in my experience so far.
If you are unlocking Reva soon, you are probably in one of the elite guilds, and are having it unlocked easily, relatively speaking. For the rest of us, it takes a lot more effort, not just by each of ourselves, but a whole guild, to unlock her in, say, 9-12 months realistically. Maybe from a raw material standpoint she is still a less expensive investment than a GL, but she certainly is much harder.
While what an elite guild is rather subjective, I don't consider mine an elite guild at 480m gp. We are in the follow-up crowd that will -naturally- unlock her. And we are rather pulling lower than surrounding guilds on this...which doesn't matter due to the few months difference I mentioned. We are bad at win ratio too. In a way it's great that it gives lower guilds a goal to yearn towards. Even after the expected nerf if done properly, that yearning will exist. But by the time you burn through the year on your end, we'll be in post-reva territory that will occure as a result of reva on further meta releases. You won't be complaining about reva herself, but the following absurdities that she cause if it stays as is.
But yea, be my guest pretend playing as if investment viewpoint justifies the current reva power level. Then change your tune once cg cuts to toon to a lower size. No surprises there xD
Why shouldn't Reva beat GL?..... She certainly requires a lot more investment...
I didn't say she shouldn't beat a gl. This is not a boolean equation of "beat a gl y/n."
Maybe not, but it is the topic of the thread and the original post.....
If you aren't concerned about Reva beating GL then what exactly are you concerned about?
I think OP means that she can kill every GL not just one or two. That's the big difference to other counters/toons. They might work against one specific GL if you have a specific squad and/or mods but you can't use that against every GL whereas Reva can be used against every GL.
Even GLs have "limitations" against certain other GLs and need a very specific squad or depend on specific RNG or can timeout.
I still don't see the issue
Why are toons beating 5 GLs okay but not 7?
Why is beating all GLs is where the line is drawn but not at 5/6?
Why is some non-GL characters ok to counter GLs but not Reva?
Idk it sounds less objective and more "I won't have her anytime soon so she shouldn't be good"
which is also hurting yourself
Aren't you going to get her eventually? Why would you want an nerfed toon
Getting Reva would be worth chasing and gearing and you can be very happy with your investment knowing she can beat 7 GLs
Its a F2P counter honestly
As a player playing the game, having more non-GL counters are good, gives you more strategy in your GAC attack / defense planning
I really don't understand the issue with Reva
Power creep argument is dumb ngl since the game isn't power creeping anymore
You have multiple teams that are equally viable and no one team that dominates all
You got teams that can counter multiple teams while also having multiple counters
That's not power creep imo
She's not breaking the power ceiling of existing toons
Imagine, as a player, asking her to be nerfed so that once you unlock and dump 700 kyros she's just meh since she counters like 2 GLs after nerf because that is more fair to you as someone who owns her
like which GL doesn't have more than 1 non-GL counter at this point? What's adding one more?
Imagine, as a player, asking her to be nerfed so that once you unlock and dump 700 kyros she's just meh since she counters like 2 GLs after nerf because that is more fair to you as someone who owns her
like which GL doesn't have more than 1 non-GL counter at this point? What's adding one more?
But yea, be my guest pretend playing as if investment viewpoint justifies the current reva power level. Then change your tune once cg cuts to toon to a lower size. No surprises there xD
Why shouldn't Reva beat GL?..... She certainly requires a lot more investment...
I didn't say she shouldn't beat a gl. This is not a boolean equation of "beat a gl y/n."
Maybe not, but it is the topic of the thread and the original post.....
If you aren't concerned about Reva beating GL then what exactly are you concerned about?
There are degrees of things. Like I said it's not "does this thing beat a gl?". I have all the gl and I'll soon have her unlocked. I still don't like the severity of power shift. Do you have first hand experience playing with or against her?
In short power creep begets power creep. Power has always crept as this is the nature of this type of games. This particular creep is too much creep in my experience so far.
If you are unlocking Reva soon, you are probably in one of the elite guilds, and are having it unlocked easily, relatively speaking. For the rest of us, it takes a lot more effort, not just by each of ourselves, but a whole guild, to unlock her in, say, 9-12 months realistically. Maybe from a raw material standpoint she is still a less expensive investment than a GL, but she certainly is much harder.
While what an elite guild is rather subjective, I don't consider mine an elite guild at 480m gp. We are in the follow-up crowd that will -naturally- unlock her. And we are rather pulling lower than surrounding guilds on this...which doesn't matter due to the few months difference I mentioned. We are bad at win ratio too. In a way it's great that it gives lower guilds a goal to yearn towards. Even after the expected nerf if done properly, that yearning will exist. But by the time you burn through the year on your end, we'll be in post-reva territory that will occure as a result of reva on further meta releases. You won't be complaining about reva herself, but the following absurdities that she cause if it stays as is.
I mean, "naturally" is subjective too, and a wide spectrum. The bottom line (to OP's point) is still that the level of difficulty, as in the time, attention, and joint investment it takes, to unlock her for most of the players is definitely comparable to unlocking a GL. So I don't see why power wise she shouldn't be comparable to a GL too.
I would only consider a character OP when nothing can beat them when they are on defense. The fact that Reva on offense can beat multiple GLs doesn't really matter because, in every TW/GAC, she can still beat only one team.
But yea, be my guest pretend playing as if investment viewpoint justifies the current reva power level. Then change your tune once cg cuts to toon to a lower size. No surprises there xD
Why shouldn't Reva beat GL?..... She certainly requires a lot more investment...
I didn't say she shouldn't beat a gl. This is not a boolean equation of "beat a gl y/n."
Maybe not, but it is the topic of the thread and the original post.....
If you aren't concerned about Reva beating GL then what exactly are you concerned about?
There are degrees of things. Like I said it's not "does this thing beat a gl?". I have all the gl and I'll soon have her unlocked. I still don't like the severity of power shift. Do you have first hand experience playing with or against her?
In short power creep begets power creep. Power has always crept as this is the nature of this type of games. This particular creep is too much creep in my experience so far.
If you are unlocking Reva soon, you are probably in one of the elite guilds, and are having it unlocked easily, relatively speaking. For the rest of us, it takes a lot more effort, not just by each of ourselves, but a whole guild, to unlock her in, say, 9-12 months realistically. Maybe from a raw material standpoint she is still a less expensive investment than a GL, but she certainly is much harder.
While what an elite guild is rather subjective, I don't consider mine an elite guild at 480m gp. We are in the follow-up crowd that will -naturally- unlock her. And we are rather pulling lower than surrounding guilds on this...which doesn't matter due to the few months difference I mentioned. We are bad at win ratio too. In a way it's great that it gives lower guilds a goal to yearn towards. Even after the expected nerf if done properly, that yearning will exist. But by the time you burn through the year on your end, we'll be in post-reva territory that will occure as a result of reva on further meta releases. You won't be complaining about reva herself, but the following absurdities that she cause if it stays as is.
I mean, "naturally" is subjective too, and a wide spectrum. The bottom line (to OP's point) is still that the level of difficulty, as in the time, attention, and joint investment it takes, to unlock her for most of the players is definitely comparable to unlocking a GL. So I don't see why power wise she shouldn't be comparable to a GL too.
If you were to compare her current power level to gls, which gls would her team be comparable to? Surely all gls aren't equivalent too either from power differential or investment perspective.
By naturally I meant the guild gp threshold where most of your members doesn't have all that much left to work on, people are at 5-7 gls etc. Then even if not for reva, we would have raised this new team too. The only extra ask from cg is a few extra relic levels which most wouldn't push for otherwise.
Obviously I'm not trying to protect gls whatsoever as some polemicists love to draw the sides at. Those sides don't exist, we are in a similar boat if as endgamers (and I mean probably you also as you and your guildies are close to getting some amount of shards per tb). It's about the overall direction of creep.
I would only consider a character OP when nothing can beat them when they are on defense. The fact that Reva on offense can beat multiple GLs doesn't really matter because, in every TW/GAC, she can still beat only one team.
This -reva is for offense only- assumption isn't realistic either. Somewhat preferable in that way especially in gac, sure. In tw get ready to face the reva walls if this stays as is. People at the very top is already experiencing this. But they are hyper competetive and it becomes different when a toon first hits the gameplay vs. when it becomes common.
But yea, be my guest pretend playing as if investment viewpoint justifies the current reva power level. Then change your tune once cg cuts to toon to a lower size. No surprises there xD
Why shouldn't Reva beat GL?..... She certainly requires a lot more investment...
I didn't say she shouldn't beat a gl. This is not a boolean equation of "beat a gl y/n."
Maybe not, but it is the topic of the thread and the original post.....
If you aren't concerned about Reva beating GL then what exactly are you concerned about?
There are degrees of things. Like I said it's not "does this thing beat a gl?". I have all the gl and I'll soon have her unlocked. I still don't like the severity of power shift. Do you have first hand experience playing with or against her?
In short power creep begets power creep. Power has always crept as this is the nature of this type of games. This particular creep is too much creep in my experience so far.
If you are unlocking Reva soon, you are probably in one of the elite guilds, and are having it unlocked easily, relatively speaking. For the rest of us, it takes a lot more effort, not just by each of ourselves, but a whole guild, to unlock her in, say, 9-12 months realistically. Maybe from a raw material standpoint she is still a less expensive investment than a GL, but she certainly is much harder.
While what an elite guild is rather subjective, I don't consider mine an elite guild at 480m gp. We are in the follow-up crowd that will -naturally- unlock her. And we are rather pulling lower than surrounding guilds on this...which doesn't matter due to the few months difference I mentioned. We are bad at win ratio too. In a way it's great that it gives lower guilds a goal to yearn towards. Even after the expected nerf if done properly, that yearning will exist. But by the time you burn through the year on your end, we'll be in post-reva territory that will occure as a result of reva on further meta releases. You won't be complaining about reva herself, but the following absurdities that she cause if it stays as is.
I mean, "naturally" is subjective too, and a wide spectrum. The bottom line (to OP's point) is still that the level of difficulty, as in the time, attention, and joint investment it takes, to unlock her for most of the players is definitely comparable to unlocking a GL. So I don't see why power wise she shouldn't be comparable to a GL too.
If you were to compare her current power level to gls, which gls would her team be comparable to? Surely all gls aren't equivalent too either from power differential or investment perspective.
By naturally I meant the guild gp threshold where most of your members doesn't have all that much left to work on, people are at 5-7 gls etc. Then even if not for reva, we would have raised this new team too. The only extra ask from cg is a few extra relic levels which most wouldn't push for otherwise.
Obviously I'm not trying to protect gls whatsoever as some polemicists love to draw the sides at. Those sides don't exist, we are in a similar boat if as endgamers (and I mean probably you also as you and your guildies are close to getting some amount of shards per tb). It's about the overall direction of creep.
I still don't understand what's the direction of the creep you are talking about?
She allows one shot of defensive GL teams, is that a bad creep? I would imagine people would welcome that
What direction do you think the creep is going towards that we need to be concerned for?
I think i'm terrible at understanding so can you make it simpler for me what you dislike about Reva if you're not trying to protect GLs?
The thing with creep is the next step in that creep. Another instance of high creep came with first revan, 2nd revan and gas following up which led us to the gl era. It was a plausible move from cg given that they couldn't contain the creep without establishing a new ceiling. It was just a natural cascade of the previous year that can not be ever taken back at some point.
?????????
This game had no power creep since GL Rey / SLKR came out, power levels are capped at GLs
I'm not sure why you are bringing something CG stopped doing for 4 years now, i would think 4 years of CG not doing anything close to that is a sign that's not happening
Am I correct in understanding that all your arguments for nerfing Reva is this imaginary power creep that you are envisioning that is going to happen? That I'm not seeing signs of and hasn't happened in the last 4 years?
But yea, be my guest pretend playing as if investment viewpoint justifies the current reva power level. Then change your tune once cg cuts to toon to a lower size. No surprises there xD
Why shouldn't Reva beat GL?..... She certainly requires a lot more investment...
I didn't say she shouldn't beat a gl. This is not a boolean equation of "beat a gl y/n."
Maybe not, but it is the topic of the thread and the original post.....
If you aren't concerned about Reva beating GL then what exactly are you concerned about?
There are degrees of things. Like I said it's not "does this thing beat a gl?". I have all the gl and I'll soon have her unlocked. I still don't like the severity of power shift. Do you have first hand experience playing with or against her?
In short power creep begets power creep. Power has always crept as this is the nature of this type of games. This particular creep is too much creep in my experience so far.
If you are unlocking Reva soon, you are probably in one of the elite guilds, and are having it unlocked easily, relatively speaking. For the rest of us, it takes a lot more effort, not just by each of ourselves, but a whole guild, to unlock her in, say, 9-12 months realistically. Maybe from a raw material standpoint she is still a less expensive investment than a GL, but she certainly is much harder.
While what an elite guild is rather subjective, I don't consider mine an elite guild at 480m gp. We are in the follow-up crowd that will -naturally- unlock her. And we are rather pulling lower than surrounding guilds on this...which doesn't matter due to the few months difference I mentioned. We are bad at win ratio too. In a way it's great that it gives lower guilds a goal to yearn towards. Even after the expected nerf if done properly, that yearning will exist. But by the time you burn through the year on your end, we'll be in post-reva territory that will occure as a result of reva on further meta releases. You won't be complaining about reva herself, but the following absurdities that she cause if it stays as is.
I mean, "naturally" is subjective too, and a wide spectrum. The bottom line (to OP's point) is still that the level of difficulty, as in the time, attention, and joint investment it takes, to unlock her for most of the players is definitely comparable to unlocking a GL. So I don't see why power wise she shouldn't be comparable to a GL too.
If you were to compare her current power level to gls, which gls would her team be comparable to? Surely all gls aren't equivalent too either from power differential or investment perspective.
By naturally I meant the guild gp threshold where most of your members doesn't have all that much left to work on, people are at 5-7 gls etc. Then even if not for reva, we would have raised this new team too. The only extra ask from cg is a few extra relic levels which most wouldn't push for otherwise.
Obviously I'm not trying to protect gls whatsoever as some polemicists love to draw the sides at. Those sides don't exist, we are in a similar boat if as endgamers (and I mean probably you also as you and your guildies are close to getting some amount of shards per tb). It's about the overall direction of creep.
I still don't understand what's the direction of the creep you are talking about?
She allows one shot of defensive GL teams, is that a bad creep? I would imagine people would welcome that
What direction do you think the creep is going towards that we need to be concerned for?
I think i'm terrible at understanding so can you make it simpler for me what you dislike about Reva if you're not trying to protect GLs?
The thing with creep is the next step in that creep. Another instance of high creep came with first revan, 2nd revan and gas following up which led us to the gl era. It was a plausible move from cg given that they couldn't contain the creep without establishing a new ceiling. It was just a natural cascade of the previous year that can not be ever taken back at some point.
?????????
This game had no power creep since GL Rey / SLKR came out, power levels are capped at GLs
I'm not sure why you are bringing something CG stopped doing for 4 years now, i would think 4 years of CG not doing anything close to that is a sign that's not happening
Am I correct in understanding that all your arguments for nerfing Reva is this imaginary power creep that you are envisioning that is going to happen? That I'm not seeing signs of and hasn't happened in the last 4 years?
Power has always crept including each single gl. It's the difference between velocity and acceleration, the rate of the creep. As I do not value your opinion since it's a visibly skewed one from my perspective and exists for the sake of it rather than yet another normal player I won't go further. I don't believe current power differential of reva was intended either.
She is NOT a GL, she beat all GL and have few counters.For me clearly a balance problem
if she had no counters then it would've been a balance problem
EDIT: Also newer units will open newer counters
I have a problem when she has less counter than GL.
The fact is CG clearly etablished a power rank since the Big nerf (vador,Wat,jkl,...) And recently traya,etc...And she IS outside her mark.
She is NOT a GL, she beat all GL and have few counters.For me clearly a balance problem
if she had no counters then it would've been a balance problem
EDIT: Also newer units will open newer counters
I have a problem when she has less counter than GL.
The fact is CG clearly etablished a power rank since the Big nerf (vador,Wat,jkl,...) And recently traya,etc...And she IS outside her mark.
Every character you mentioned there is 3+ years old and one of them (Traya), reliably counters Reva..... I think this is a case of some players watching too many YouTube videos and not actually having much, if any, experience either using or facing Reva.. She isn't that difficult to beat ...
Jkl was not 3years old when they nerfed him... And again it's not about she's beatable easily or not(i have faced some in GAC so i know) it's about she is not in her range of power. But i understand player who have unlocked her want to keep their advantage
But yea, be my guest pretend playing as if investment viewpoint justifies the current reva power level. Then change your tune once cg cuts to toon to a lower size. No surprises there xD
Why shouldn't Reva beat GL?..... She certainly requires a lot more investment...
I didn't say she shouldn't beat a gl. This is not a boolean equation of "beat a gl y/n."
Maybe not, but it is the topic of the thread and the original post.....
If you aren't concerned about Reva beating GL then what exactly are you concerned about?
I think OP means that she can kill every GL not just one or two. That's the big difference to other counters/toons. They might work against one specific GL if you have a specific squad and/or mods but you can't use that against every GL whereas Reva can be used against every GL.
Even GLs have "limitations" against certain other GLs and need a very specific squad or depend on specific RNG or can timeout.
I still don't see the issue
Why are toons beating 5 GLs okay but not 7?
Why is beating all GLs is where the line is drawn but not at 5/6?
Why is some non-GL characters ok to counter GLs but not Reva?
Idk it sounds less objective and more "I won't have her anytime soon so she shouldn't be good"
which is also hurting yourself
Aren't you going to get her eventually? Why would you want an nerfed toon
Getting Reva would be worth chasing and gearing and you can be very happy with your investment knowing she can beat 7 GLs
Its a F2P counter honestly
As a player playing the game, having more non-GL counters are good, gives you more strategy in your GAC attack / defense planning
I really don't understand the issue with Reva
Power creep argument is dumb ngl since the game isn't power creeping anymore
You have multiple teams that are equally viable and no one team that dominates all
You got teams that can counter multiple teams while also having multiple counters
That's not power creep imo
She's not breaking the power ceiling of existing toons
Maybe a little misunderstanding going on here: With OP I meant original poster not over powered.
So the things you brought up are better directed at them, because I don't know what theboriginal poster thinks about these things. I just wanted to clear up what I think the original poster meant because it seemed like some people didn't understand it correctly.
But yea, be my guest pretend playing as if investment viewpoint justifies the current reva power level. Then change your tune once cg cuts to toon to a lower size. No surprises there xD
Why shouldn't Reva beat GL?..... She certainly requires a lot more investment...
I didn't say she shouldn't beat a gl. This is not a boolean equation of "beat a gl y/n."
Maybe not, but it is the topic of the thread and the original post.....
If you aren't concerned about Reva beating GL then what exactly are you concerned about?
I think OP means that she can kill every GL not just one or two. That's the big difference to other counters/toons. They might work against one specific GL if you have a specific squad and/or mods but you can't use that against every GL whereas Reva can be used against every GL.
Even GLs have "limitations" against certain other GLs and need a very specific squad or depend on specific RNG or can timeout.
I still don't see the issue
Why are toons beating 5 GLs okay but not 7?
Why is beating all GLs is where the line is drawn but not at 5/6?
Why is some non-GL characters ok to counter GLs but not Reva?
Idk it sounds less objective and more "I won't have her anytime soon so she shouldn't be good"
which is also hurting yourself
Aren't you going to get her eventually? Why would you want an nerfed toon
Getting Reva would be worth chasing and gearing and you can be very happy with your investment knowing she can beat 7 GLs
Its a F2P counter honestly
As a player playing the game, having more non-GL counters are good, gives you more strategy in your GAC attack / defense planning
I really don't understand the issue with Reva
Power creep argument is dumb ngl since the game isn't power creeping anymore
You have multiple teams that are equally viable and no one team that dominates all
You got teams that can counter multiple teams while also having multiple counters
That's not power creep imo
She's not breaking the power ceiling of existing toons
Maybe a little misunderstanding going on here: With OP I meant original poster not over powered.
So the things you brought up are better directed at them, because I don't know what theboriginal poster thinks about these things. I just wanted to clear up what I think the original poster meant because it seemed like some people didn't understand it correctly.
Fair enough... So, in the ineterest of staying on track, OP posted this thread which they titled "I still don't understand why Reva is OP"
They then proceeded to say this:
Title says it all. I don't understand based on everything CG has told us about power rankings of characters based on where /how they're obtained why reva dominates every galactic legend in every aspect of the game. . they nerfed traya's omi when she could beat 1, they nerfed wat when he had too much power vs GLs. Reva dominates even outside GAC. this isn't in line with what CG said
So, to put it in perspective, OP is comparing the "nerfing" of two toons that are 4 and 5 years old respectively, to not nerfing Reva who is brand new and came out after all of the existing GL's did....
OP also stated that Reva "dominates every GL in every aspect of the game", which is also false, Reva is easily beatable on defense with multiple teams, including Traya who is not a GL and has been in SWGOH for 5 years...
To be fair, I also don't know what OP is speaking of when they said "this isn't in line with what CG said".... So I will leave that one for them to elaborate on...
But yea, be my guest pretend playing as if investment viewpoint justifies the current reva power level. Then change your tune once cg cuts to toon to a lower size. No surprises there xD
Why shouldn't Reva beat GL?..... She certainly requires a lot more investment...
I didn't say she shouldn't beat a gl. This is not a boolean equation of "beat a gl y/n."
Maybe not, but it is the topic of the thread and the original post.....
If you aren't concerned about Reva beating GL then what exactly are you concerned about?
I think OP means that she can kill every GL not just one or two. That's the big difference to other counters/toons. They might work against one specific GL if you have a specific squad and/or mods but you can't use that against every GL whereas Reva can be used against every GL.
Even GLs have "limitations" against certain other GLs and need a very specific squad or depend on specific RNG or can timeout.
I still don't see the issue
Why are toons beating 5 GLs okay but not 7?
Why is beating all GLs is where the line is drawn but not at 5/6?
Why is some non-GL characters ok to counter GLs but not Reva?
Idk it sounds less objective and more "I won't have her anytime soon so she shouldn't be good"
which is also hurting yourself
Aren't you going to get her eventually? Why would you want an nerfed toon
Getting Reva would be worth chasing and gearing and you can be very happy with your investment knowing she can beat 7 GLs
Its a F2P counter honestly
As a player playing the game, having more non-GL counters are good, gives you more strategy in your GAC attack / defense planning
I really don't understand the issue with Reva
Power creep argument is dumb ngl since the game isn't power creeping anymore
You have multiple teams that are equally viable and no one team that dominates all
You got teams that can counter multiple teams while also having multiple counters
That's not power creep imo
She's not breaking the power ceiling of existing toons
Maybe a little misunderstanding going on here: With OP I meant original poster not over powered.
So the things you brought up are better directed at them, because I don't know what theboriginal poster thinks about these things. I just wanted to clear up what I think the original poster meant because it seemed like some people didn't understand it correctly.
Fair enough... So, in the ineterest of staying on track, OP posted this thread which they titled "I still don't understand why Reva is OP"
They then proceeded to say this:
Title says it all. I don't understand based on everything CG has told us about power rankings of characters based on where /how they're obtained why reva dominates every galactic legend in every aspect of the game. . they nerfed traya's omi when she could beat 1, they nerfed wat when he had too much power vs GLs. Reva dominates even outside GAC. this isn't in line with what CG said
So, to put it in perspective, OP is comparing the "nerfing" of two toons that are 4 and 5 years old respectively, to not nerfing Reva who is brand new and came out after all of the existing GL's did....
OP also stated that Reva "dominates every GL in every aspect of the game", which is also false, Reva is easily beatable on defense with multiple teams, including Traya who is not a GL and has been in SWGOH for 5 years...
To be fair, I also don't know what OP is speaking of when they said "this isn't in line with what CG said".... So I will leave that one for them to elaborate on...
But yea, be my guest pretend playing as if investment viewpoint justifies the current reva power level. Then change your tune once cg cuts to toon to a lower size. No surprises there xD
Why shouldn't Reva beat GL?..... She certainly requires a lot more investment...
I didn't say she shouldn't beat a gl. This is not a boolean equation of "beat a gl y/n."
Maybe not, but it is the topic of the thread and the original post.....
If you aren't concerned about Reva beating GL then what exactly are you concerned about?
I think OP means that she can kill every GL not just one or two. That's the big difference to other counters/toons. They might work against one specific GL if you have a specific squad and/or mods but you can't use that against every GL whereas Reva can be used against every GL.
Even GLs have "limitations" against certain other GLs and need a very specific squad or depend on specific RNG or can timeout.
I still don't see the issue
Why are toons beating 5 GLs okay but not 7?
Why is beating all GLs is where the line is drawn but not at 5/6?
Why is some non-GL characters ok to counter GLs but not Reva?
Idk it sounds less objective and more "I won't have her anytime soon so she shouldn't be good"
which is also hurting yourself
Aren't you going to get her eventually? Why would you want an nerfed toon
Getting Reva would be worth chasing and gearing and you can be very happy with your investment knowing she can beat 7 GLs
Its a F2P counter honestly
As a player playing the game, having more non-GL counters are good, gives you more strategy in your GAC attack / defense planning
I really don't understand the issue with Reva
Power creep argument is dumb ngl since the game isn't power creeping anymore
You have multiple teams that are equally viable and no one team that dominates all
You got teams that can counter multiple teams while also having multiple counters
That's not power creep imo
She's not breaking the power ceiling of existing toons
Maybe a little misunderstanding going on here: With OP I meant original poster not over powered.
So the things you brought up are better directed at them, because I don't know what theboriginal poster thinks about these things. I just wanted to clear up what I think the original poster meant because it seemed like some people didn't understand it correctly.
Fair enough... So, in the ineterest of staying on track, OP posted this thread which they titled "I still don't understand why Reva is OP"
They then proceeded to say this:
Title says it all. I don't understand based on everything CG has told us about power rankings of characters based on where /how they're obtained why reva dominates every galactic legend in every aspect of the game. . they nerfed traya's omi when she could beat 1, they nerfed wat when he had too much power vs GLs. Reva dominates even outside GAC. this isn't in line with what CG said
So, to put it in perspective, OP is comparing the "nerfing" of two toons that are 4 and 5 years old respectively, to not nerfing Reva who is brand new and came out after all of the existing GL's did....
OP also stated that Reva "dominates every GL in every aspect of the game", which is also false, Reva is easily beatable on defense with multiple teams, including Traya who is not a GL and has been in SWGOH for 5 years...
To be fair, I also don't know what OP is speaking of when they said "this isn't in line with what CG said".... So I will leave that one for them to elaborate on...
But yea, be my guest pretend playing as if investment viewpoint justifies the current reva power level. Then change your tune once cg cuts to toon to a lower size. No surprises there xD
Why shouldn't Reva beat GL?..... She certainly requires a lot more investment...
I didn't say she shouldn't beat a gl. This is not a boolean equation of "beat a gl y/n."
Maybe not, but it is the topic of the thread and the original post.....
If you aren't concerned about Reva beating GL then what exactly are you concerned about?
I think OP means that she can kill every GL not just one or two. That's the big difference to other counters/toons. They might work against one specific GL if you have a specific squad and/or mods but you can't use that against every GL whereas Reva can be used against every GL.
Even GLs have "limitations" against certain other GLs and need a very specific squad or depend on specific RNG or can timeout.
I still don't see the issue
Why are toons beating 5 GLs okay but not 7?
Why is beating all GLs is where the line is drawn but not at 5/6?
Why is some non-GL characters ok to counter GLs but not Reva?
Idk it sounds less objective and more "I won't have her anytime soon so she shouldn't be good"
which is also hurting yourself
Aren't you going to get her eventually? Why would you want an nerfed toon
Getting Reva would be worth chasing and gearing and you can be very happy with your investment knowing she can beat 7 GLs
Its a F2P counter honestly
As a player playing the game, having more non-GL counters are good, gives you more strategy in your GAC attack / defense planning
I really don't understand the issue with Reva
Power creep argument is dumb ngl since the game isn't power creeping anymore
You have multiple teams that are equally viable and no one team that dominates all
You got teams that can counter multiple teams while also having multiple counters
That's not power creep imo
She's not breaking the power ceiling of existing toons
Maybe a little misunderstanding going on here: With OP I meant original poster not over powered.
So the things you brought up are better directed at them, because I don't know what theboriginal poster thinks about these things. I just wanted to clear up what I think the original poster meant because it seemed like some people didn't understand it correctly.
Fair enough... So, in the ineterest of staying on track, OP posted this thread which they titled "I still don't understand why Reva is OP"
They then proceeded to say this:
Title says it all. I don't understand based on everything CG has told us about power rankings of characters based on where /how they're obtained why reva dominates every galactic legend in every aspect of the game. . they nerfed traya's omi when she could beat 1, they nerfed wat when he had too much power vs GLs. Reva dominates even outside GAC. this isn't in line with what CG said
So, to put it in perspective, OP is comparing the "nerfing" of two toons that are 4 and 5 years old respectively, to not nerfing Reva who is brand new and came out after all of the existing GL's did....
OP also stated that Reva "dominates every GL in every aspect of the game", which is also false, Reva is easily beatable on defense with multiple teams, including Traya who is not a GL and has been in SWGOH for 5 years...
To be fair, I also don't know what OP is speaking of when they said "this isn't in line with what CG said".... So I will leave that one for them to elaborate on...
Thanks, I don't see anything in there that speaks to what OP is talking about....
Hmm op is saying they don't see the reason why reva is considered op/in need of a nerf. I won't go into word mingling and try to clarify what cg implied already. I'm rather sure they are "monitoring the situation" which also means they are checking how the community responds to it as they always do.
But yea, be my guest pretend playing as if investment viewpoint justifies the current reva power level. Then change your tune once cg cuts to toon to a lower size. No surprises there xD
Why shouldn't Reva beat GL?..... She certainly requires a lot more investment...
I didn't say she shouldn't beat a gl. This is not a boolean equation of "beat a gl y/n."
Maybe not, but it is the topic of the thread and the original post.....
If you aren't concerned about Reva beating GL then what exactly are you concerned about?
There are degrees of things. Like I said it's not "does this thing beat a gl?". I have all the gl and I'll soon have her unlocked. I still don't like the severity of power shift. Do you have first hand experience playing with or against her?
In short power creep begets power creep. Power has always crept as this is the nature of this type of games. This particular creep is too much creep in my experience so far.
If you are unlocking Reva soon, you are probably in one of the elite guilds, and are having it unlocked easily, relatively speaking. For the rest of us, it takes a lot more effort, not just by each of ourselves, but a whole guild, to unlock her in, say, 9-12 months realistically. Maybe from a raw material standpoint she is still a less expensive investment than a GL, but she certainly is much harder.
While what an elite guild is rather subjective, I don't consider mine an elite guild at 480m gp. We are in the follow-up crowd that will -naturally- unlock her. And we are rather pulling lower than surrounding guilds on this...which doesn't matter due to the few months difference I mentioned. We are bad at win ratio too. In a way it's great that it gives lower guilds a goal to yearn towards. Even after the expected nerf if done properly, that yearning will exist. But by the time you burn through the year on your end, we'll be in post-reva territory that will occure as a result of reva on further meta releases. You won't be complaining about reva herself, but the following absurdities that she cause if it stays as is.
I mean, "naturally" is subjective too, and a wide spectrum. The bottom line (to OP's point) is still that the level of difficulty, as in the time, attention, and joint investment it takes, to unlock her for most of the players is definitely comparable to unlocking a GL. So I don't see why power wise she shouldn't be comparable to a GL too.
If you were to compare her current power level to gls, which gls would her team be comparable to? Surely all gls aren't equivalent too either from power differential or investment perspective.
By naturally I meant the guild gp threshold where most of your members doesn't have all that much left to work on, people are at 5-7 gls etc. Then even if not for reva, we would have raised this new team too. The only extra ask from cg is a few extra relic levels which most wouldn't push for otherwise.
Obviously I'm not trying to protect gls whatsoever as some polemicists love to draw the sides at. Those sides don't exist, we are in a similar boat if as endgamers (and I mean probably you also as you and your guildies are close to getting some amount of shards per tb). It's about the overall direction of creep.
I still don't understand what's the direction of the creep you are talking about?
She allows one shot of defensive GL teams, is that a bad creep? I would imagine people would welcome that
What direction do you think the creep is going towards that we need to be concerned for?
I think i'm terrible at understanding so can you make it simpler for me what you dislike about Reva if you're not trying to protect GLs?
The thing with creep is the next step in that creep. Another instance of high creep came with first revan, 2nd revan and gas following up which led us to the gl era. It was a plausible move from cg given that they couldn't contain the creep without establishing a new ceiling. It was just a natural cascade of the previous year that can not be ever taken back at some point.
?????????
This game had no power creep since GL Rey / SLKR came out, power levels are capped at GLs
I'm not sure why you are bringing something CG stopped doing for 4 years now, i would think 4 years of CG not doing anything close to that is a sign that's not happening
Am I correct in understanding that all your arguments for nerfing Reva is this imaginary power creep that you are envisioning that is going to happen? That I'm not seeing signs of and hasn't happened in the last 4 years?
Power has always crept including each single gl. It's the difference between velocity and acceleration, the rate of the creep. As I do not value your opinion since it's a visibly skewed one from my perspective and exists for the sake of it rather than yet another normal player I won't go further. I don't believe current power differential of reva was intended either.
Value my opinion or not i’m sure many will disagree that power was crept and increased when SEE / JML came out vs Rey / SLKR
I don’t believe power creep occurred when LV came out either
Regardless of my opinion whether how balanced Reva is, I don’t think my opinion even matters, your stance the entire thread has been “Reva needs to be nerfed because of power creep” is extremely vague
I still don’t understand what power creeping Reva is doing but explaining the term power creep with power creep isn’t an explanation
and this isn’t my opinion, it’s trying to understand terminology so that we can have a healthy debate / argument which you don’t want to do with me because you have some issues against me and that’s fine
At least i can explain my point of view “Reva isn’t power creeping” with concrete examples
I don’t think “not as many counters” is a reasonable argument unless you define how many counters is considered not as many
But yes, just disregard my posts trying to use numerical data assignment and facts as “my opinion”
From my point of view you are just writing paragraphs that amount to nothing and at least i have an opinion, i don’t think you are even presenting an opinion
And with that i am checking myself out of this thread since you have no interest in having a healthy discussion in trying to make me understand what you think is an issue with Reva
But yea, be my guest pretend playing as if investment viewpoint justifies the current reva power level. Then change your tune once cg cuts to toon to a lower size. No surprises there xD
Why shouldn't Reva beat GL?..... She certainly requires a lot more investment...
I didn't say she shouldn't beat a gl. This is not a boolean equation of "beat a gl y/n."
Maybe not, but it is the topic of the thread and the original post.....
If you aren't concerned about Reva beating GL then what exactly are you concerned about?
There are degrees of things. Like I said it's not "does this thing beat a gl?". I have all the gl and I'll soon have her unlocked. I still don't like the severity of power shift. Do you have first hand experience playing with or against her?
In short power creep begets power creep. Power has always crept as this is the nature of this type of games. This particular creep is too much creep in my experience so far.
If you are unlocking Reva soon, you are probably in one of the elite guilds, and are having it unlocked easily, relatively speaking. For the rest of us, it takes a lot more effort, not just by each of ourselves, but a whole guild, to unlock her in, say, 9-12 months realistically. Maybe from a raw material standpoint she is still a less expensive investment than a GL, but she certainly is much harder.
While what an elite guild is rather subjective, I don't consider mine an elite guild at 480m gp. We are in the follow-up crowd that will -naturally- unlock her. And we are rather pulling lower than surrounding guilds on this...which doesn't matter due to the few months difference I mentioned. We are bad at win ratio too. In a way it's great that it gives lower guilds a goal to yearn towards. Even after the expected nerf if done properly, that yearning will exist. But by the time you burn through the year on your end, we'll be in post-reva territory that will occure as a result of reva on further meta releases. You won't be complaining about reva herself, but the following absurdities that she cause if it stays as is.
I mean, "naturally" is subjective too, and a wide spectrum. The bottom line (to OP's point) is still that the level of difficulty, as in the time, attention, and joint investment it takes, to unlock her for most of the players is definitely comparable to unlocking a GL. So I don't see why power wise she shouldn't be comparable to a GL too.
If you were to compare her current power level to gls, which gls would her team be comparable to? Surely all gls aren't equivalent too either from power differential or investment perspective.
By naturally I meant the guild gp threshold where most of your members doesn't have all that much left to work on, people are at 5-7 gls etc. Then even if not for reva, we would have raised this new team too. The only extra ask from cg is a few extra relic levels which most wouldn't push for otherwise.
Obviously I'm not trying to protect gls whatsoever as some polemicists love to draw the sides at. Those sides don't exist, we are in a similar boat if as endgamers (and I mean probably you also as you and your guildies are close to getting some amount of shards per tb). It's about the overall direction of creep.
I still don't understand what's the direction of the creep you are talking about?
She allows one shot of defensive GL teams, is that a bad creep? I would imagine people would welcome that
What direction do you think the creep is going towards that we need to be concerned for?
I think i'm terrible at understanding so can you make it simpler for me what you dislike about Reva if you're not trying to protect GLs?
The thing with creep is the next step in that creep. Another instance of high creep came with first revan, 2nd revan and gas following up which led us to the gl era. It was a plausible move from cg given that they couldn't contain the creep without establishing a new ceiling. It was just a natural cascade of the previous year that can not be ever taken back at some point.
?????????
This game had no power creep since GL Rey / SLKR came out, power levels are capped at GLs
I'm not sure why you are bringing something CG stopped doing for 4 years now, i would think 4 years of CG not doing anything close to that is a sign that's not happening
Am I correct in understanding that all your arguments for nerfing Reva is this imaginary power creep that you are envisioning that is going to happen? That I'm not seeing signs of and hasn't happened in the last 4 years?
Power has always crept including each single gl. It's the difference between velocity and acceleration, the rate of the creep. As I do not value your opinion since it's a visibly skewed one from my perspective and exists for the sake of it rather than yet another normal player I won't go further. I don't believe current power differential of reva was intended either.
Value my opinion or not i’m sure many will disagree that power was crept and increased when SEE / JML came out vs Rey / SLKR
I don’t believe power creep occurred when LV came out either
Regardless of my opinion whether how balanced Reva is, I don’t think my opinion even matters, your stance the entire thread has been “Reva needs to be nerfed because of power creep” is extremely vague
I still don’t understand what power creeping Reva is doing but explaining the term power creep with power creep isn’t an explanation
and this isn’t my opinion, it’s trying to understand terminology so that we can have a healthy debate / argument which you don’t want to do with me because you have some issues against me and that’s fine
At least i can explain my point of view “Reva isn’t power creeping” with concrete examples
I don’t think “not as many counters” is a reasonable argument unless you define how many counters is considered not as many
But yes, just disregard my posts trying to use numerical data assignment and facts as “my opinion”
From my point of view you are just writing paragraphs that amount to nothing and at least i have an opinion, i don’t think you are even presenting an opinion
And with that i am checking myself out of this thread since you have no interest in having a healthy discussion in trying to make me understand what you think is an issue with Reva
From my perspective all you churn out is the same as my "just words". When the situation changes you'll come up with a new rhetoric that justifies it and everyone will have forgotten about your current line. You'll do it add infinitum until you are tired and they assign Kyno 3.
My intention to have a healthy discussion about reva is obviously not tied to you. I'm simply responding to the general conversation what I consider legitimate points of discussion whether I agree or not. In summary I'm openly not able to consider wall of texts you come up with as your legitimate opinion as a player.
I'd love to see those facts and data btw. I read back if I was missing anything. Since facts and data don't belong to any of us, I'm certainly interested in them. Well...I see none in your posts in this thread. There are a total of 7 gls- that's a fact!
But yea, be my guest pretend playing as if investment viewpoint justifies the current reva power level. Then change your tune once cg cuts to toon to a lower size. No surprises there xD
Why shouldn't Reva beat GL?..... She certainly requires a lot more investment...
I didn't say she shouldn't beat a gl. This is not a boolean equation of "beat a gl y/n."
Maybe not, but it is the topic of the thread and the original post.....
If you aren't concerned about Reva beating GL then what exactly are you concerned about?
I think OP means that she can kill every GL not just one or two. That's the big difference to other counters/toons. They might work against one specific GL if you have a specific squad and/or mods but you can't use that against every GL whereas Reva can be used against every GL.
Even GLs have "limitations" against certain other GLs and need a very specific squad or depend on specific RNG or can timeout.
I still don't see the issue
Why are toons beating 5 GLs okay but not 7?
Why is beating all GLs is where the line is drawn but not at 5/6?
Why is some non-GL characters ok to counter GLs but not Reva?
Idk it sounds less objective and more "I won't have her anytime soon so she shouldn't be good"
which is also hurting yourself
Aren't you going to get her eventually? Why would you want an nerfed toon
Getting Reva would be worth chasing and gearing and you can be very happy with your investment knowing she can beat 7 GLs
Its a F2P counter honestly
As a player playing the game, having more non-GL counters are good, gives you more strategy in your GAC attack / defense planning
I really don't understand the issue with Reva
Power creep argument is dumb ngl since the game isn't power creeping anymore
You have multiple teams that are equally viable and no one team that dominates all
You got teams that can counter multiple teams while also having multiple counters
That's not power creep imo
She's not breaking the power ceiling of existing toons
Maybe a little misunderstanding going on here: With OP I meant original poster not over powered.
So the things you brought up are better directed at them, because I don't know what theboriginal poster thinks about these things. I just wanted to clear up what I think the original poster meant because it seemed like some people didn't understand it correctly.
Fair enough... So, in the ineterest of staying on track, OP posted this thread which they titled "I still don't understand why Reva is OP"
They then proceeded to say this:
Title says it all. I don't understand based on everything CG has told us about power rankings of characters based on where /how they're obtained why reva dominates every galactic legend in every aspect of the game. . they nerfed traya's omi when she could beat 1, they nerfed wat when he had too much power vs GLs. Reva dominates even outside GAC. this isn't in line with what CG said
So, to put it in perspective, OP is comparing the "nerfing" of two toons that are 4 and 5 years old respectively, to not nerfing Reva who is brand new and came out after all of the existing GL's did....
OP also stated that Reva "dominates every GL in every aspect of the game", which is also false, Reva is easily beatable on defense with multiple teams, including Traya who is not a GL and has been in SWGOH for 5 years...
To be fair, I also don't know what OP is speaking of when they said "this isn't in line with what CG said".... So I will leave that one for them to elaborate on...
Just because she is beatable on defence does not mean that she doesn't dominate every GL on offence (which she does and which is what OP said) and that ties directly in to what OP meant with what CG said: Their statement regarding the power level of toons.
Combine that with purge issue it is clear, something is not wai.
But yea, be my guest pretend playing as if investment viewpoint justifies the current reva power level. Then change your tune once cg cuts to toon to a lower size. No surprises there xD
Why shouldn't Reva beat GL?..... She certainly requires a lot more investment...
I didn't say she shouldn't beat a gl. This is not a boolean equation of "beat a gl y/n."
Maybe not, but it is the topic of the thread and the original post.....
If you aren't concerned about Reva beating GL then what exactly are you concerned about?
I think OP means that she can kill every GL not just one or two. That's the big difference to other counters/toons. They might work against one specific GL if you have a specific squad and/or mods but you can't use that against every GL whereas Reva can be used against every GL.
Even GLs have "limitations" against certain other GLs and need a very specific squad or depend on specific RNG or can timeout.
I still don't see the issue
Why are toons beating 5 GLs okay but not 7?
Why is beating all GLs is where the line is drawn but not at 5/6?
Why is some non-GL characters ok to counter GLs but not Reva?
Idk it sounds less objective and more "I won't have her anytime soon so she shouldn't be good"
which is also hurting yourself
Aren't you going to get her eventually? Why would you want an nerfed toon
Getting Reva would be worth chasing and gearing and you can be very happy with your investment knowing she can beat 7 GLs
Its a F2P counter honestly
As a player playing the game, having more non-GL counters are good, gives you more strategy in your GAC attack / defense planning
I really don't understand the issue with Reva
Power creep argument is dumb ngl since the game isn't power creeping anymore
You have multiple teams that are equally viable and no one team that dominates all
You got teams that can counter multiple teams while also having multiple counters
That's not power creep imo
She's not breaking the power ceiling of existing toons
Maybe a little misunderstanding going on here: With OP I meant original poster not over powered.
So the things you brought up are better directed at them, because I don't know what theboriginal poster thinks about these things. I just wanted to clear up what I think the original poster meant because it seemed like some people didn't understand it correctly.
Fair enough... So, in the ineterest of staying on track, OP posted this thread which they titled "I still don't understand why Reva is OP"
They then proceeded to say this:
Title says it all. I don't understand based on everything CG has told us about power rankings of characters based on where /how they're obtained why reva dominates every galactic legend in every aspect of the game. . they nerfed traya's omi when she could beat 1, they nerfed wat when he had too much power vs GLs. Reva dominates even outside GAC. this isn't in line with what CG said
So, to put it in perspective, OP is comparing the "nerfing" of two toons that are 4 and 5 years old respectively, to not nerfing Reva who is brand new and came out after all of the existing GL's did....
OP also stated that Reva "dominates every GL in every aspect of the game", which is also false, Reva is easily beatable on defense with multiple teams, including Traya who is not a GL and has been in SWGOH for 5 years...
To be fair, I also don't know what OP is speaking of when they said "this isn't in line with what CG said".... So I will leave that one for them to elaborate on...
Just because she is beatable on defence does not mean that she doesn't dominate every GL on offence (which she does and which is what OP said) and that ties directly in to what OP meant with what CG said: Their statement regarding the power level of toons.
Combine that with purge issue it is clear, something is not wai.
Edit for typo
To be honest, I don't have her so I can't say from personal experience if she dominates every GL on Offence....
I was only speaking in regards to what the OP said "She dominates every GL in every aspect of the game".... Personally, I consider defence an aspect of the game...
But yea, be my guest pretend playing as if investment viewpoint justifies the current reva power level. Then change your tune once cg cuts to toon to a lower size. No surprises there xD
Why shouldn't Reva beat GL?..... She certainly requires a lot more investment...
I didn't say she shouldn't beat a gl. This is not a boolean equation of "beat a gl y/n."
Maybe not, but it is the topic of the thread and the original post.....
If you aren't concerned about Reva beating GL then what exactly are you concerned about?
I think OP means that she can kill every GL not just one or two. That's the big difference to other counters/toons. They might work against one specific GL if you have a specific squad and/or mods but you can't use that against every GL whereas Reva can be used against every GL.
Even GLs have "limitations" against certain other GLs and need a very specific squad or depend on specific RNG or can timeout.
I still don't see the issue
Why are toons beating 5 GLs okay but not 7?
Why is beating all GLs is where the line is drawn but not at 5/6?
Why is some non-GL characters ok to counter GLs but not Reva?
Idk it sounds less objective and more "I won't have her anytime soon so she shouldn't be good"
which is also hurting yourself
Aren't you going to get her eventually? Why would you want an nerfed toon
Getting Reva would be worth chasing and gearing and you can be very happy with your investment knowing she can beat 7 GLs
Its a F2P counter honestly
As a player playing the game, having more non-GL counters are good, gives you more strategy in your GAC attack / defense planning
I really don't understand the issue with Reva
Power creep argument is dumb ngl since the game isn't power creeping anymore
You have multiple teams that are equally viable and no one team that dominates all
You got teams that can counter multiple teams while also having multiple counters
That's not power creep imo
She's not breaking the power ceiling of existing toons
Maybe a little misunderstanding going on here: With OP I meant original poster not over powered.
So the things you brought up are better directed at them, because I don't know what theboriginal poster thinks about these things. I just wanted to clear up what I think the original poster meant because it seemed like some people didn't understand it correctly.
Fair enough... So, in the ineterest of staying on track, OP posted this thread which they titled "I still don't understand why Reva is OP"
They then proceeded to say this:
Title says it all. I don't understand based on everything CG has told us about power rankings of characters based on where /how they're obtained why reva dominates every galactic legend in every aspect of the game. . they nerfed traya's omi when she could beat 1, they nerfed wat when he had too much power vs GLs. Reva dominates even outside GAC. this isn't in line with what CG said
So, to put it in perspective, OP is comparing the "nerfing" of two toons that are 4 and 5 years old respectively, to not nerfing Reva who is brand new and came out after all of the existing GL's did....
OP also stated that Reva "dominates every GL in every aspect of the game", which is also false, Reva is easily beatable on defense with multiple teams, including Traya who is not a GL and has been in SWGOH for 5 years...
To be fair, I also don't know what OP is speaking of when they said "this isn't in line with what CG said".... So I will leave that one for them to elaborate on...
Just because she is beatable on defence does not mean that she doesn't dominate every GL on offence (which she does and which is what OP said) and that ties directly in to what OP meant with what CG said: Their statement regarding the power level of toons.
Combine that with purge issue it is clear, something is not wai.
Edit for typo
To be honest, I don't have her so I can't say from personal experience if she dominates every GL on Offence....
I was only speaking in regards to what the OP said "She dominates every GL in every aspect of the game".... Personally, I consider defence an aspect of the game...
In a similar vein, gac is not the only mode though. Traya's gac omi doesn't exist in tw. Even for gac this is the list of "many counters":
But yea, be my guest pretend playing as if investment viewpoint justifies the current reva power level. Then change your tune once cg cuts to toon to a lower size. No surprises there xD
Why shouldn't Reva beat GL?..... She certainly requires a lot more investment...
I didn't say she shouldn't beat a gl. This is not a boolean equation of "beat a gl y/n."
Maybe not, but it is the topic of the thread and the original post.....
If you aren't concerned about Reva beating GL then what exactly are you concerned about?
I think OP means that she can kill every GL not just one or two. That's the big difference to other counters/toons. They might work against one specific GL if you have a specific squad and/or mods but you can't use that against every GL whereas Reva can be used against every GL.
Even GLs have "limitations" against certain other GLs and need a very specific squad or depend on specific RNG or can timeout.
I still don't see the issue
Why are toons beating 5 GLs okay but not 7?
Why is beating all GLs is where the line is drawn but not at 5/6?
Why is some non-GL characters ok to counter GLs but not Reva?
Idk it sounds less objective and more "I won't have her anytime soon so she shouldn't be good"
which is also hurting yourself
Aren't you going to get her eventually? Why would you want an nerfed toon
Getting Reva would be worth chasing and gearing and you can be very happy with your investment knowing she can beat 7 GLs
Its a F2P counter honestly
As a player playing the game, having more non-GL counters are good, gives you more strategy in your GAC attack / defense planning
I really don't understand the issue with Reva
Power creep argument is dumb ngl since the game isn't power creeping anymore
You have multiple teams that are equally viable and no one team that dominates all
You got teams that can counter multiple teams while also having multiple counters
That's not power creep imo
She's not breaking the power ceiling of existing toons
Maybe a little misunderstanding going on here: With OP I meant original poster not over powered.
So the things you brought up are better directed at them, because I don't know what theboriginal poster thinks about these things. I just wanted to clear up what I think the original poster meant because it seemed like some people didn't understand it correctly.
Fair enough... So, in the ineterest of staying on track, OP posted this thread which they titled "I still don't understand why Reva is OP"
They then proceeded to say this:
Title says it all. I don't understand based on everything CG has told us about power rankings of characters based on where /how they're obtained why reva dominates every galactic legend in every aspect of the game. . they nerfed traya's omi when she could beat 1, they nerfed wat when he had too much power vs GLs. Reva dominates even outside GAC. this isn't in line with what CG said
So, to put it in perspective, OP is comparing the "nerfing" of two toons that are 4 and 5 years old respectively, to not nerfing Reva who is brand new and came out after all of the existing GL's did....
OP also stated that Reva "dominates every GL in every aspect of the game", which is also false, Reva is easily beatable on defense with multiple teams, including Traya who is not a GL and has been in SWGOH for 5 years...
To be fair, I also don't know what OP is speaking of when they said "this isn't in line with what CG said".... So I will leave that one for them to elaborate on...
Just because she is beatable on defence does not mean that she doesn't dominate every GL on offence (which she does and which is what OP said) and that ties directly in to what OP meant with what CG said: Their statement regarding the power level of toons.
Combine that with purge issue it is clear, something is not wai.
Edit for typo
To be honest, I don't have her so I can't say from personal experience if she dominates every GL on Offence....
I was only speaking in regards to what the OP said "She dominates every GL in every aspect of the game".... Personally, I consider defence an aspect of the game...
Traya's gac omi doesn't exist in tw.
Neither does Reva's....
As for your counters, give it time, there are only 2400 or so Reva in the game right now, there will be more counters to come...
But yea, be my guest pretend playing as if investment viewpoint justifies the current reva power level. Then change your tune once cg cuts to toon to a lower size. No surprises there xD
Why shouldn't Reva beat GL?..... She certainly requires a lot more investment...
I didn't say she shouldn't beat a gl. This is not a boolean equation of "beat a gl y/n."
Maybe not, but it is the topic of the thread and the original post.....
If you aren't concerned about Reva beating GL then what exactly are you concerned about?
I think OP means that she can kill every GL not just one or two. That's the big difference to other counters/toons. They might work against one specific GL if you have a specific squad and/or mods but you can't use that against every GL whereas Reva can be used against every GL.
Even GLs have "limitations" against certain other GLs and need a very specific squad or depend on specific RNG or can timeout.
I still don't see the issue
Why are toons beating 5 GLs okay but not 7?
Why is beating all GLs is where the line is drawn but not at 5/6?
Why is some non-GL characters ok to counter GLs but not Reva?
Idk it sounds less objective and more "I won't have her anytime soon so she shouldn't be good"
which is also hurting yourself
Aren't you going to get her eventually? Why would you want an nerfed toon
Getting Reva would be worth chasing and gearing and you can be very happy with your investment knowing she can beat 7 GLs
Its a F2P counter honestly
As a player playing the game, having more non-GL counters are good, gives you more strategy in your GAC attack / defense planning
I really don't understand the issue with Reva
Power creep argument is dumb ngl since the game isn't power creeping anymore
You have multiple teams that are equally viable and no one team that dominates all
You got teams that can counter multiple teams while also having multiple counters
That's not power creep imo
She's not breaking the power ceiling of existing toons
Maybe a little misunderstanding going on here: With OP I meant original poster not over powered.
So the things you brought up are better directed at them, because I don't know what theboriginal poster thinks about these things. I just wanted to clear up what I think the original poster meant because it seemed like some people didn't understand it correctly.
Fair enough... So, in the ineterest of staying on track, OP posted this thread which they titled "I still don't understand why Reva is OP"
They then proceeded to say this:
Title says it all. I don't understand based on everything CG has told us about power rankings of characters based on where /how they're obtained why reva dominates every galactic legend in every aspect of the game. . they nerfed traya's omi when she could beat 1, they nerfed wat when he had too much power vs GLs. Reva dominates even outside GAC. this isn't in line with what CG said
So, to put it in perspective, OP is comparing the "nerfing" of two toons that are 4 and 5 years old respectively, to not nerfing Reva who is brand new and came out after all of the existing GL's did....
OP also stated that Reva "dominates every GL in every aspect of the game", which is also false, Reva is easily beatable on defense with multiple teams, including Traya who is not a GL and has been in SWGOH for 5 years...
To be fair, I also don't know what OP is speaking of when they said "this isn't in line with what CG said".... So I will leave that one for them to elaborate on...
Just because she is beatable on defence does not mean that she doesn't dominate every GL on offence (which she does and which is what OP said) and that ties directly in to what OP meant with what CG said: Their statement regarding the power level of toons.
Combine that with purge issue it is clear, something is not wai.
Edit for typo
To be honest, I don't have her so I can't say from personal experience if she dominates every GL on Offence....
I was only speaking in regards to what the OP said "She dominates every GL in every aspect of the game".... Personally, I consider defence an aspect of the game...
Traya's gac omi doesn't exist in tw.
Neither does Reva's....
As for your counters, give it time, there are only 2400 or so Reva in the game right now, there will be more counters to come...
Yes but in the lack of both omis, traya can't counter reva on tw defense. Counters will surely come and get sold as such. We are already in the mentality that reva is the new level of power beyond gls which is telling a lot why this discussion exists.
WHAT’S THE META WITH YOU?
There has been a bunch of great discussion in the community around balance and speculation around potential changes to units in the game. While there will always be these kinds of questions and concerns, our goal is to be as transparent as possible on when and why we make these changes. To that end, we want to provide some broader understanding on when and why we intervene to change characters that are significantly not performing as expected. Of course, changing a character after launch is something we want to avoid at all costs and is always a last resort but sometimes becomes necessary.
To get everyone on the same page, let’s begin with how all the different types of units fit together and lay out the current hierarchy of power. To be clear, this certainly does not hold universally true for all units but is a rough rubric we can use to discuss this topic in more detail. There are many exceptions to the rules (in the name of fun and interesting gameplay) that exist but overall this is a good snapshot of how we approach power.
Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes Power Tiers:
Marquee/Galactic Chase - ex. Second Sister, Iden Versio
Journey Guide, Conquest Units - ex. Jedi Knight Revan, Commander Luke Skywalker
Galactic Legends - ex. Supreme Leader Kylo Ren, Rey
Galactic Legends with Conquest Counterpart - ex. Jedi Master Kenobi with Commander Ahsoka Tano
NOTE: This list assumes squad compositions are highly synergistic and have comparable mods. This may not always be the case in practice and, if so, is not a balance issue. For example, a Galactic Legend with weak mods and in a non-ideal squad may potentially be challenged by a well modded and highly synergistic squad from the lower tiers.
Wait! Why is there no mention of Omicroned units in the above list? Omicrons boost the power of a unit. Adding an Omicron will move a unit up around a tier on the scale above, which means their final power varies based on the type of character. So where do they sit on the power scale? Marquee units with Omicrons get lifted up to somewhere between the level of a Journey Guide or Conquest unit, while a character like Starkiller (Journey Guide) or Boba Fett, Scion of Jango (Conquest) can rival a Galactic Legend in their specific mode with the right squad.
It is important to note that when we talk about counters to a squad, there are a ton of elements that need to be considered. The intent is that a counter to a squad should be roughly comparable in effort to unlock but there are a ton of factors to what is “comparable”.
When we investigate a balance issue, team composition, mods, abilities/ultimates/gear/relic levels and the consistency of the counter all play a role in the final decision. We examine a number of different squad variations and we review the data of how all players mod these squads in order to get the best snapshot of the current balance players are experiencing but the most effective squads with close to equal modding have the most weight in our decisions. On top of that, the win rate and reliability of these matchup are also important factors. A consistent counter is more likely to see changes than one than is only sometimes possible.
We also consider how to address those issues while supporting a healthy amount of theorycrafting. It is important to strike a balance between encouraging creative uses for units and keeping the value of progressing to higher units intact. And there are a ton of other factors that modify this balance: Omicron vs not-omicron, stronger mods vs weaker mods, challenging a squad’s less than ideal comp, does this squad encourage under gearing or leveling abilities, and more.
...
To reiterate, not every unit is going to fall nicely into these constraints and we may release units that push the limits of these boundaries in the name of interesting gameplay but I hope this provides some context for where future characters will land and where we may intervene for balance.
As always, the team is committed to announcing any changes to units as early as possible and sharing the context for why the changes are necessary whenever we can. Omicrons, reworked game modes, and Conquest Units have shifted the “meta” and the focus of many rosters, but our goals continue to be a long healthy life to the game, transparency around upcoming changes, and most important of all, fun and diverse experience when playing with your collection of Star Wars characters and ships.
But yea, be my guest pretend playing as if investment viewpoint justifies the current reva power level. Then change your tune once cg cuts to toon to a lower size. No surprises there xD
Why shouldn't Reva beat GL?..... She certainly requires a lot more investment...
I didn't say she shouldn't beat a gl. This is not a boolean equation of "beat a gl y/n."
Maybe not, but it is the topic of the thread and the original post.....
If you aren't concerned about Reva beating GL then what exactly are you concerned about?
I think OP means that she can kill every GL not just one or two. That's the big difference to other counters/toons. They might work against one specific GL if you have a specific squad and/or mods but you can't use that against every GL whereas Reva can be used against every GL.
Even GLs have "limitations" against certain other GLs and need a very specific squad or depend on specific RNG or can timeout.
I still don't see the issue
Why are toons beating 5 GLs okay but not 7?
Why is beating all GLs is where the line is drawn but not at 5/6?
Why is some non-GL characters ok to counter GLs but not Reva?
Idk it sounds less objective and more "I won't have her anytime soon so she shouldn't be good"
which is also hurting yourself
Aren't you going to get her eventually? Why would you want an nerfed toon
Getting Reva would be worth chasing and gearing and you can be very happy with your investment knowing she can beat 7 GLs
Its a F2P counter honestly
As a player playing the game, having more non-GL counters are good, gives you more strategy in your GAC attack / defense planning
I really don't understand the issue with Reva
Power creep argument is dumb ngl since the game isn't power creeping anymore
You have multiple teams that are equally viable and no one team that dominates all
You got teams that can counter multiple teams while also having multiple counters
That's not power creep imo
She's not breaking the power ceiling of existing toons
Maybe a little misunderstanding going on here: With OP I meant original poster not over powered.
So the things you brought up are better directed at them, because I don't know what theboriginal poster thinks about these things. I just wanted to clear up what I think the original poster meant because it seemed like some people didn't understand it correctly.
Fair enough... So, in the ineterest of staying on track, OP posted this thread which they titled "I still don't understand why Reva is OP"
They then proceeded to say this:
Title says it all. I don't understand based on everything CG has told us about power rankings of characters based on where /how they're obtained why reva dominates every galactic legend in every aspect of the game. . they nerfed traya's omi when she could beat 1, they nerfed wat when he had too much power vs GLs. Reva dominates even outside GAC. this isn't in line with what CG said
So, to put it in perspective, OP is comparing the "nerfing" of two toons that are 4 and 5 years old respectively, to not nerfing Reva who is brand new and came out after all of the existing GL's did....
OP also stated that Reva "dominates every GL in every aspect of the game", which is also false, Reva is easily beatable on defense with multiple teams, including Traya who is not a GL and has been in SWGOH for 5 years...
To be fair, I also don't know what OP is speaking of when they said "this isn't in line with what CG said".... So I will leave that one for them to elaborate on...
Just because she is beatable on defence does not mean that she doesn't dominate every GL on offence (which she does and which is what OP said) and that ties directly in to what OP meant with what CG said: Their statement regarding the power level of toons.
Combine that with purge issue it is clear, something is not wai.
Edit for typo
To be honest, I don't have her so I can't say from personal experience if she dominates every GL on Offence....
I was only speaking in regards to what the OP said "She dominates every GL in every aspect of the game".... Personally, I consider defence an aspect of the game...
Traya's gac omi doesn't exist in tw.
Neither does Reva's....
As for your counters, give it time, there are only 2400 or so Reva in the game right now, there will be more counters to come...
Yes but in the lack of both omis, traya can't counter reva on tw defense. Counters will surely come and get sold as such. We are already in the mentality that reva is the new level of power beyond gls which is telling a lot why this discussion exists.
Actually, Reva gets smoked outside of GAC by a lot of different teams... Including GL's...
I am not in the mentality that Reva is the next level of power above a GL at all to be honest... I think she's a great character with her Omi in GAC on offence and I don't have problem with that or consider that to be "overpowered"... YMMV
Replies
While what an elite guild is rather subjective, I don't consider mine an elite guild at 480m gp. We are in the follow-up crowd that will -naturally- unlock her. And we are rather pulling lower than surrounding guilds on this...which doesn't matter due to the few months difference I mentioned. We are bad at win ratio too. In a way it's great that it gives lower guilds a goal to yearn towards. Even after the expected nerf if done properly, that yearning will exist. But by the time you burn through the year on your end, we'll be in post-reva territory that will occure as a result of reva on further meta releases. You won't be complaining about reva herself, but the following absurdities that she cause if it stays as is.
I still don't see the issue
Why are toons beating 5 GLs okay but not 7?
Why is beating all GLs is where the line is drawn but not at 5/6?
Why is some non-GL characters ok to counter GLs but not Reva?
Idk it sounds less objective and more "I won't have her anytime soon so she shouldn't be good"
which is also hurting yourself
Aren't you going to get her eventually? Why would you want an nerfed toon
Getting Reva would be worth chasing and gearing and you can be very happy with your investment knowing she can beat 7 GLs
Its a F2P counter honestly
As a player playing the game, having more non-GL counters are good, gives you more strategy in your GAC attack / defense planning
I really don't understand the issue with Reva
Power creep argument is dumb ngl since the game isn't power creeping anymore
You have multiple teams that are equally viable and no one team that dominates all
You got teams that can counter multiple teams while also having multiple counters
That's not power creep imo
She's not breaking the power ceiling of existing toons
like which GL doesn't have more than 1 non-GL counter at this point? What's adding one more?
if she had no counters then it would've been a balance problem
EDIT: Also newer units will open newer counters
Some people will never have her lol
I mean, "naturally" is subjective too, and a wide spectrum. The bottom line (to OP's point) is still that the level of difficulty, as in the time, attention, and joint investment it takes, to unlock her for most of the players is definitely comparable to unlocking a GL. So I don't see why power wise she shouldn't be comparable to a GL too.
If you were to compare her current power level to gls, which gls would her team be comparable to? Surely all gls aren't equivalent too either from power differential or investment perspective.
By naturally I meant the guild gp threshold where most of your members doesn't have all that much left to work on, people are at 5-7 gls etc. Then even if not for reva, we would have raised this new team too. The only extra ask from cg is a few extra relic levels which most wouldn't push for otherwise.
Obviously I'm not trying to protect gls whatsoever as some polemicists love to draw the sides at. Those sides don't exist, we are in a similar boat if as endgamers (and I mean probably you also as you and your guildies are close to getting some amount of shards per tb). It's about the overall direction of creep.
This -reva is for offense only- assumption isn't realistic either. Somewhat preferable in that way especially in gac, sure. In tw get ready to face the reva walls if this stays as is. People at the very top is already experiencing this. But they are hyper competetive and it becomes different when a toon first hits the gameplay vs. when it becomes common.
She allows one shot of defensive GL teams, is that a bad creep? I would imagine people would welcome that
What direction do you think the creep is going towards that we need to be concerned for?
I think i'm terrible at understanding so can you make it simpler for me what you dislike about Reva if you're not trying to protect GLs?
Can you explain what you mean by following absurdities?
?????????
This game had no power creep since GL Rey / SLKR came out, power levels are capped at GLs
I'm not sure why you are bringing something CG stopped doing for 4 years now, i would think 4 years of CG not doing anything close to that is a sign that's not happening
Am I correct in understanding that all your arguments for nerfing Reva is this imaginary power creep that you are envisioning that is going to happen? That I'm not seeing signs of and hasn't happened in the last 4 years?
Power has always crept including each single gl. It's the difference between velocity and acceleration, the rate of the creep. As I do not value your opinion since it's a visibly skewed one from my perspective and exists for the sake of it rather than yet another normal player I won't go further. I don't believe current power differential of reva was intended either.
I have a problem when she has less counter than GL.
The fact is CG clearly etablished a power rank since the Big nerf (vador,Wat,jkl,...) And recently traya,etc...And she IS outside her mark.
Every character you mentioned there is 3+ years old and one of them (Traya), reliably counters Reva..... I think this is a case of some players watching too many YouTube videos and not actually having much, if any, experience either using or facing Reva.. She isn't that difficult to beat ...
Maybe a little misunderstanding going on here: With OP I meant original poster not over powered.
So the things you brought up are better directed at them, because I don't know what theboriginal poster thinks about these things. I just wanted to clear up what I think the original poster meant because it seemed like some people didn't understand it correctly.
Fair enough... So, in the ineterest of staying on track, OP posted this thread which they titled "I still don't understand why Reva is OP"
They then proceeded to say this:
So, to put it in perspective, OP is comparing the "nerfing" of two toons that are 4 and 5 years old respectively, to not nerfing Reva who is brand new and came out after all of the existing GL's did....
OP also stated that Reva "dominates every GL in every aspect of the game", which is also false, Reva is easily beatable on defense with multiple teams, including Traya who is not a GL and has been in SWGOH for 5 years...
To be fair, I also don't know what OP is speaking of when they said "this isn't in line with what CG said".... So I will leave that one for them to elaborate on...
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/260057/road-ahead-november-2022
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/262264/known-issue-reva-purge-stacking
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/260476/third-sister-kit-questions-answers
Thanks, I don't see anything in there that speaks to what OP is talking about....
Hmm op is saying they don't see the reason why reva is considered op/in need of a nerf. I won't go into word mingling and try to clarify what cg implied already. I'm rather sure they are "monitoring the situation" which also means they are checking how the community responds to it as they always do.
Value my opinion or not i’m sure many will disagree that power was crept and increased when SEE / JML came out vs Rey / SLKR
I don’t believe power creep occurred when LV came out either
Regardless of my opinion whether how balanced Reva is, I don’t think my opinion even matters, your stance the entire thread has been “Reva needs to be nerfed because of power creep” is extremely vague
I still don’t understand what power creeping Reva is doing but explaining the term power creep with power creep isn’t an explanation
and this isn’t my opinion, it’s trying to understand terminology so that we can have a healthy debate / argument which you don’t want to do with me because you have some issues against me and that’s fine
At least i can explain my point of view “Reva isn’t power creeping” with concrete examples
I don’t think “not as many counters” is a reasonable argument unless you define how many counters is considered not as many
But yes, just disregard my posts trying to use numerical data assignment and facts as “my opinion”
From my point of view you are just writing paragraphs that amount to nothing and at least i have an opinion, i don’t think you are even presenting an opinion
And with that i am checking myself out of this thread since you have no interest in having a healthy discussion in trying to make me understand what you think is an issue with Reva
From my perspective all you churn out is the same as my "just words". When the situation changes you'll come up with a new rhetoric that justifies it and everyone will have forgotten about your current line. You'll do it add infinitum until you are tired and they assign Kyno 3.
My intention to have a healthy discussion about reva is obviously not tied to you. I'm simply responding to the general conversation what I consider legitimate points of discussion whether I agree or not. In summary I'm openly not able to consider wall of texts you come up with as your legitimate opinion as a player.
Just because she is beatable on defence does not mean that she doesn't dominate every GL on offence (which she does and which is what OP said) and that ties directly in to what OP meant with what CG said: Their statement regarding the power level of toons.
Combine that with purge issue it is clear, something is not wai.
Edit for typo
To be honest, I don't have her so I can't say from personal experience if she dominates every GL on Offence....
I was only speaking in regards to what the OP said "She dominates every GL in every aspect of the game".... Personally, I consider defence an aspect of the game...
In a similar vein, gac is not the only mode though. Traya's gac omi doesn't exist in tw. Even for gac this is the list of "many counters":
Neither does Reva's....
As for your counters, give it time, there are only 2400 or so Reva in the game right now, there will be more counters to come...
Yes but in the lack of both omis, traya can't counter reva on tw defense. Counters will surely come and get sold as such. We are already in the mentality that reva is the new level of power beyond gls which is telling a lot why this discussion exists.
Actually, Reva gets smoked outside of GAC by a lot of different teams... Including GL's...
I am not in the mentality that Reva is the next level of power above a GL at all to be honest... I think she's a great character with her Omi in GAC on offence and I don't have problem with that or consider that to be "overpowered"... YMMV