Appreciate Team Instict's contributions here. You guys know your stuff. My recommendation would be to agree as a team on a unified set of rules for public discourse because honestly getting in the mud with trolls or even well intentioned detractors isn't a good look for you guys and distracts from all the awesome content you are so kindly providing.
Happy to consult and look forward to your future contributions.
Moral of the story, if POE's lvl 70 speed (i believe this is correct) isn't touched, then he will be a requirement for Arena, and most likely everything will hinge on which POE goes first.
Moral of the story, if POE's lvl 70 speed (i believe this is correct) isn't touched, then he will be a requirement for Arena, and most likely everything will hinge on which POE goes first.
Appreciate Team Instict's contributions here. You guys know your stuff. My recommendation would be to agree as a team on a unified set of rules for public discourse because honestly getting in the mud with trolls or even well intentioned detractors isn't a good look for you guys and distracts from all the awesome content you are so kindly providing.
Happy to consult and look forward to your future contributions.
Thanks for the post. As a member of Team Instinct, I know I am not alone when I think that putting information out to the public (instead of keeping it in house) is sometimes more trouble than it is worth.
While we don't claim to be the sole source of 100% perfect information for this game, what we do decide to release is always well thought out and researched. If we continue to release info, it will never be to mislead the community. Rather, it will always be to help and instruct the gamer base.
@JohnnySteelAlpha You argue from the standpoint of a minority: the one that has no problem buying new out-of-the-box-ready-to-play units that may counter the existing ones.
The majority of people do not have the luxury of changing their current farming strategy mid-way to get the new units. It takes weeks and crystals and patience to field a new unit in the arena and remain competitive.
Thus, your position and angle taints the majority of your "arguments" in my eyes.
OP made a honest, open-minded attempt at explaining the changes he proposed.
I'm completely with @Naecabon about this topic, and understand his frustrations and reaction over the content shared here.
Yet you have free players here arguing that since he's F2P farmable (this is a F2P toon we are talking about here) it gives them an option against the top teams of whales. Poe is a F2P / P2P equalizer. Maybe your biased in that you have this pay / free bias that taints your view of how you interpret comments.
I absolutely think a Poe nerf helps P2P like myself much more than it hurts. If the Poe speed threshold can't be eclipsed, I can't get a speed advantage over a diligent free player. We will be speed equals. Nerfing Poe locks in a P2P advantage. I'm already built now to beat Poe at 138. If he's nerfed and stays slower, I will have speed advantage all day and walk all over a free player. So if I'm being selfish and having some biased view...sure ... nerf Poe. Helps me a lot. I'll be able to acquire and have speed toons and not have to worry about him.
I am still not sure you understand why Poe is going to be OP. No one is saying he is currently OP and not beatable. But when he is 70, and only two other characters POSSIBLY could go before him, AND he has a turn meter reduction... the person whose POE goes first will have almost an entire turn before the next person goes, even if they have their own Poe.
Also, I am not following how a Poe speed nerf will be more helpful to p2p than f2p? If anything, it will hurt p2p people who have got him in packs and farmed him up, or just invested lots of money into crystals to farm him.
Keeping Poe's current speed will be the equalizer; increasing his speed will break him, and possibly, the game.
Nerfing strong players like FOTP is stu pid, he has very little armour if you fear him get a fast team get his **** out of there THATS ALL he has got is a hit. If all characters were same or similar imagine how boring the game would be!!! I like seeing a FOTP makes me shutter a bit, I have FOTP Maul, Ren, Who are you targeting?? Makes it more fun .. Tank up with a healer and a couple of hitters you now have a longer played out game esp if they are speedy!! So many out comes.. I'm running Han as a leader for his leader skills, his defence allows my back row get going Hans like a big punching bag!.. Nerfing characters is just stu pid.... Build a team to cope not all teams will be effective against all opposition
His damage is simply way too high. Consistent 8.5k crits without offense up/expose/assist bonus/leader skill isn't fair. HP at 10.5k is just gravy.
Normally I'd agree about nerfing but if there's one character who needs it it's FOTP.
Ok I'll bite. What use would FOTP if you nerfed his damage? He doesn't heal. He doesnt buff his team. He doesn't debuff...what good would he be? You don't think about that do you? I can tell you for a FACT they won't nerf him. So my advice to you would be instead of trying to justify making every character balanced with easily attainable characters spend that energy farming FOTP or buy a lot of chrono cards. If neither of those are a option for you I guess tough luck my friend. I have a 6* FOTP and don't use or have plans to use him. So Im not being biased at all. FOTP is fine.
@JohnnySteelAlpha You argue from the standpoint of a minority: the one that has no problem buying new out-of-the-box-ready-to-play units that may counter the existing ones.
The majority of people do not have the luxury of changing their current farming strategy mid-way to get the new units. It takes weeks and crystals and patience to field a new unit in the arena and remain competitive.
Thus, your position and angle taints the majority of your "arguments" in my eyes.
OP made a honest, open-minded attempt at explaining the changes he proposed.
I'm completely with @Naecabon about this topic, and understand his frustrations and reaction over the content shared here.
Yet you have free players here arguing that since he's F2P farmable (this is a F2P toon we are talking about here) it gives them an option against the top teams of whales. Poe is a F2P / P2P equalizer. Maybe your biased in that you have this pay / free bias that taints your view of how you interpret comments.
I absolutely think a Poe nerf helps P2P like myself much more than it hurts. If the Poe speed threshold can't be eclipsed, I can't get a speed advantage over a diligent free player. We will be speed equals. Nerfing Poe locks in a P2P advantage. I'm already built now to beat Poe at 138. If he's nerfed and stays slower, I will have speed advantage all day and walk all over a free player. So if I'm being selfish and having some biased view...sure ... nerf Poe. Helps me a lot. I'll be able to acquire and have speed toons and not have to worry about him.
Your point against me makes no sense Fanta.
All characters that are over 143 speed are f2p,except leia(who most likely be fixed), and farmable. Actually I would say almost all of the best characters are in someway farmable for free to play unless they release some new character only available in packs.
Nerfing strong players like FOTP is stu pid, he has very little armour if you fear him get a fast team get his **** out of there THATS ALL he has got is a hit. If all characters were same or similar imagine how boring the game would be!!! I like seeing a FOTP makes me shutter a bit, I have FOTP Maul, Ren, Who are you targeting?? Makes it more fun .. Tank up with a healer and a couple of hitters you now have a longer played out game esp if they are speedy!! So many out comes.. I'm running Han as a leader for his leader skills, his defence allows my back row get going Hans like a big punching bag!.. Nerfing characters is just stu pid.... Build a team to cope not all teams will be effective against all opposition
His damage is simply way too high. Consistent 8.5k crits without offense up/expose/assist bonus/leader skill isn't fair. HP at 10.5k is just gravy.
Normally I'd agree about nerfing but if there's one character who needs it it's FOTP.
Ok I'll bite. What use would FOTP if you nerfed his damage? He doesn't heal. He doesnt buff his team. He doesn't debuff...what good would he be? You don't think about that do you? I can tell you for a FACT they won't nerf him. So my advice to you would be instead of trying to justify making every character balanced with easily attainable characters spend that energy farming FOTP or buy a lot of chrono cards. If neither of those are a option for you I guess tough luck my friend.
If they don't nerf his damage to a reasonable amount whales like you will have an advantage for a while, I guess. You come off as a pompous **** in almost every post.
He'll still be very viable if they lower his damage output by 15% or his double attack chance. He's one of the highest damage characters in swgoh...
Nerfing strong players like FOTP is stu pid, he has very little armour if you fear him get a fast team get his **** out of there THATS ALL he has got is a hit. If all characters were same or similar imagine how boring the game would be!!! I like seeing a FOTP makes me shutter a bit, I have FOTP Maul, Ren, Who are you targeting?? Makes it more fun .. Tank up with a healer and a couple of hitters you now have a longer played out game esp if they are speedy!! So many out comes.. I'm running Han as a leader for his leader skills, his defence allows my back row get going Hans like a big punching bag!.. Nerfing characters is just stu pid.... Build a team to cope not all teams will be effective against all opposition
His damage is simply way too high. Consistent 8.5k crits without offense up/expose/assist bonus/leader skill isn't fair. HP at 10.5k is just gravy.
Normally I'd agree about nerfing but if there's one character who needs it it's FOTP.
Ok I'll bite. What use would FOTP if you nerfed his damage? He doesn't heal. He doesnt buff his team. He doesn't debuff...what good would he be? You don't think about that do you? I can tell you for a FACT they won't nerf him. So my advice to you would be instead of trying to justify making every character balanced with easily attainable characters spend that energy farming FOTP or buy a lot of chrono cards. If neither of those are a option for you I guess tough luck my friend. I have a 6* FOTP and don't use or have plans to use him. So Im not being biased at all. FOTP is fine.
Didnt jesse mention somethiing about "talking to developers about FOTP's balance" or something like that? People really should wait until this game is complete before calling for nerfs, for all we know at lvl70 FOTP could be useless and if he nerfed now then he might be a total throw away and that'll snowball into another "omg i want my money back."
I am still not sure you understand why Poe is going to be OP. No one is saying he is currently OP and not beatable. But when he is 70, and only two other characters POSSIBLY could go before him, AND he has a turn meter reduction... the person whose POE goes first will have almost an entire turn before the next person goes, even if they have their own Poe.
Also, I am not following how a Poe speed nerf will be more helpful to p2p than f2p? If anything, it will hurt p2p people who have got him in packs and farmed him up, or just invested lots of money into crystals to farm him.
Keeping Poe's current speed will be the equalizer; increasing his speed will break him, and possibly, the game.
Didn't say he wouldn't be really strong at 70 and 143 (IF that is what end up in production and his speed gears on g8 are no level cappped)...but that's not end game. g8 lvl 70 is not end game. I just don't think we should be balancing to the game 2 months after hard launch. The Barriss nerf was a nerf way too early and it was botched. In hindsight that was unnecessary and CG caved to all the nerf bunnies. I don't want to repeat that mistake again. I'd prefer we see true end game and then assess. I don't disagree with your assessment for g8 @ lvl 70 - but I disagree on whether that stopping point is important enough to nerf a character, possibly prematurely.
I am still not sure you understand why Poe is going to be OP. No one is saying he is currently OP and not beatable. But when he is 70, and only two other characters POSSIBLY could go before him, AND he has a turn meter reduction... the person whose POE goes first will have almost an entire turn before the next person goes, even if they have their own Poe.
Also, I am not following how a Poe speed nerf will be more helpful to p2p than f2p? If anything, it will hurt p2p people who have got him in packs and farmed him up, or just invested lots of money into crystals to farm him.
Keeping Poe's current speed will be the equalizer; increasing his speed will break him, and possibly, the game.
Nerfing Poe helps pay players more because Poe at 143 will set the meta speed bar (assuming all else stays the same in the game and the projection of 143 goes in to production). Since he's so readily available to all players - free / low / big spend - everyone will be on roughly equal speed / initiative turns. As we know - speed / initiative is what PVP has become all about.
As a pay player, I have access to Rey, Jinn, and Leia that F2P or low spenders really don't (Rey is a super slow farm). Jinn fights currently in the same speed as Poe and with dispel is a great natural counter to him even if he does proc. Leia is key right now to just kill Poe before he even moves. Sure Dooku and Sid are available, but having Leia, Rey, and Jinn currently are big advantages to facing Poe at 138 speed. I don't even need Poe or Tie to beat a Poe / Tie team with Leia / Rey / Dooku / Sid / Jinn. That build becomes easy. So...if Poe is nerfed ... helps me and helps other P2P that have Jinn / Leia / Rey. Disadvantage to F2P that don't have access to those toons.
There's no question a Poe nerf shifts an advantage to P2P more as they have more units that can just hit past Poe at 138. If he's 143, that advantage won't exist as you've already pointed out.
@JohnnySteelAlpha You argue from the standpoint of a minority: the one that has no problem buying new out-of-the-box-ready-to-play units that may counter the existing ones.
The majority of people do not have the luxury of changing their current farming strategy mid-way to get the new units. It takes weeks and crystals and patience to field a new unit in the arena and remain competitive.
Thus, your position and angle taints the majority of your "arguments" in my eyes.
OP made a honest, open-minded attempt at explaining the changes he proposed.
I'm completely with @Naecabon about this topic, and understand his frustrations and reaction over the content shared here.
Yet you have free players here arguing that since he's F2P farmable (this is a F2P toon we are talking about here) it gives them an option against the top teams of whales. Poe is a F2P / P2P equalizer. Maybe your biased in that you have this pay / free bias that taints your view of how you interpret comments.
I absolutely think a Poe nerf helps P2P like myself much more than it hurts. If the Poe speed threshold can't be eclipsed, I can't get a speed advantage over a diligent free player. We will be speed equals. Nerfing Poe locks in a P2P advantage. I'm already built now to beat Poe at 138. If he's nerfed and stays slower, I will have speed advantage all day and walk all over a free player. So if I'm being selfish and having some biased view...sure ... nerf Poe. Helps me a lot. I'll be able to acquire and have speed toons and not have to worry about him.
Your point against me makes no sense Fanta.
All characters that are over 143 speed are f2p,except leia(who most likely be fixed), and farmable. Actually I would say almost all of the best characters are in someway farmable for free to play unless they release some new character only available in packs.
You don't need toons over 143 speed to hard counter Poe though - Jinn / Rey are key components to countering him hard...and Leia is a big piece as she can start the damage early on him. While Sid / Rey / Jinn are in the same turn with Poe now, that's 3/4 toons that are in that mix that will give you a good chance to get 3 hits on him before he moves: Dooku, Leia, and one of Rey / Jinn / Sid. Jinn is key because if he gets initiative his assist will essentially mean 4x hits on Poe and he's going to die before moving. If Poe procs before Jinn, Jinn can dispel him quick and give everyone O up.
So as a P2P having access to Rey / Leia / Jinn I have a reliable solution to Poe / Tie teams right now that F2P don't have access to. As Poe gets faster - I Iose that advantage to Poe and to other F2P that would be using Poe.
Now ... is that good for the game that everyone has the speed meta setting toon? Probably not. Is g8 lvl 70 though the right place to make nerf calls when we are not even two months in the game? I think that's the split in opinion. I don't debate your overall premise about Poe at 143 speed relative to the game as it exists today.
Nerfing strong players like FOTP is stu pid, he has very little armour if you fear him get a fast team get his **** out of there THATS ALL he has got is a hit. If all characters were same or similar imagine how boring the game would be!!! I like seeing a FOTP makes me shutter a bit, I have FOTP Maul, Ren, Who are you targeting?? Makes it more fun .. Tank up with a healer and a couple of hitters you now have a longer played out game esp if they are speedy!! So many out comes.. I'm running Han as a leader for his leader skills, his defence allows my back row get going Hans like a big punching bag!.. Nerfing characters is just stu pid.... Build a team to cope not all teams will be effective against all opposition
His damage is simply way too high. Consistent 8.5k crits without offense up/expose/assist bonus/leader skill isn't fair. HP at 10.5k is just gravy.
Normally I'd agree about nerfing but if there's one character who needs it it's FOTP.
Ok I'll bite. What use would FOTP if you nerfed his damage? He doesn't heal. He doesnt buff his team. He doesn't debuff...what good would he be? You don't think about that do you? I can tell you for a FACT they won't nerf him. So my advice to you would be instead of trying to justify making every character balanced with easily attainable characters spend that energy farming FOTP or buy a lot of chrono cards. If neither of those are a option for you I guess tough luck my friend.
If they don't nerf his damage to a reasonable amount whales like you will have an advantage for a while, I guess. You come off as a pompous **** in almost every post.
He'll still be very viable if they lower his damage output by 15% or his double attack chance. He's one of the highest damage characters in swgoh...
TIE is so one-dimensional though. He's also slow. I think he's much less of a concern than the Poe topic here. FOTP's lack of speed means you can put effects on him or kill him. Damage down TIE with Old Ben or some other toon and he's really a non-factor. Given that he's one-dimensional, if his one skill is nerfed much at all he loses value incredibly fast. He has no leader skill, no ailment effects, he can't heal, he has no aoe...he's just a high damage toon with moderate to below average speed. Once you have more of the roster he's actually pretty easy to gameplan for because he only has one way to impact the match.
Contrast that with QGJ - Jinn can impact the match a lot even if he is damage down. He has an ally assist that does 75% more damage. He also has a dispel ability that does big damage and then gives the team offense up...and the guy is pretty darned fast too - he's hard to just kill outright unless you are dooku stunning him or a very few other options. He has various dimensions and depth that adds to his value. If they pull the Barriss level nerf sledge-hammer on TIE he will be no good...especially considering that he gets no additional gear in the level cap raise, so he's already going to come back to the pack on a relative basis. That + a nerf and this one-dimensional guy could very quickly be zero dimensional.
TIE is so one-dimensional though. He's also slow. I think he's much less of a concern than the Poe topic here.
This is not true. Theres a chance for whales to assign Phasma as leader and there is 16% chance for one of the ally to attack. If that assisting ally turns out to first order tie pilot....
There are three ways you could make her more viable. (That I'll cover here)
1. Increase her healing from basic attacks and reduce the cooldown on her heal. The % of turn meter would probably need to be adjusted down. This creates a system where she heals over time to compensate for the health list by her party heal. This also doesn't work in the current speed meta but would help in DS battles.
2. Remove the health loss on party heal and buff the amount healed. This is the easy option but it turns her into a generic healer. I like balancing the risk of losing 20% health for the party heal. That said, the DS needs a healing system overhaul and I like offensive healing for the DS. (Life drain, DoT, etc.) it just fits.
3. Give Talia an AOE attack placing a dot (similar to Sid) on the enemy team, subject to removal it would heal Talia and her party members for say 4% per dot present on the enemy team. This is a fun way to bring some interesting dynamics to dark side healing.
Nerfing strong players like FOTP is stu pid, he has very little armour if you fear him get a fast team get his **** out of there THATS ALL he has got is a hit. If all characters were same or similar imagine how boring the game would be!!! I like seeing a FOTP makes me shutter a bit, I have FOTP Maul, Ren, Who are you targeting?? Makes it more fun .. Tank up with a healer and a couple of hitters you now have a longer played out game esp if they are speedy!! So many out comes.. I'm running Han as a leader for his leader skills, his defence allows my back row get going Hans like a big punching bag!.. Nerfing characters is just stu pid.... Build a team to cope not all teams will be effective against all opposition
His damage is simply way too high. Consistent 8.5k crits without offense up/expose/assist bonus/leader skill isn't fair. HP at 10.5k is just gravy.
Normally I'd agree about nerfing but if there's one character who needs it it's FOTP.
Bonkers...or just has additional information? I think anyone making a proclamation that something is broke at this moment is bonkers..or just really overestimating their knowledge base because most players have very little of the roster actually built and we don't have the bulk of all toons in the population that CG is going to release. TIE is balanced in that he's slow....you can run circles around him and keep him from getting advantage. You can also use damage down characters to make him hit much lower - TIE without damage is barely more than a speed bump. Keep in mind, more toons will be released and others buffed as time goes on. In the upper meta across the broader roster, TIE is already passed and just a solid toon. Just as Lumi was passed, Barriss, Dooku, etc....now, like others he may also come back. He has one great skill - strong damage. That's it guys. You nerf his hitting power and he doesn't have anything else to add.
What's the best no Chromium char tonDamage Down Pilot and Leia? Is there any recommendarion for Damage Down that acts before Qui Gin assit, Leia 4x and FOTP 3x?
Appreciate Team Instict's contributions here. You guys know your stuff. My recommendation would be to agree as a team on a unified set of rules for public discourse because honestly getting in the mud with trolls or even well intentioned detractors isn't a good look for you guys and distracts from all the awesome content you are so kindly providing.
Happy to consult and look forward to your future contributions.
Thanks for the post. As a member of Team Instinct, I know I am not alone when I think that putting information out to the public (instead of keeping it in house) is sometimes more trouble than it is worth.
While we don't claim to be the sole source of 100% perfect information for this game, what we do decide to release is always well thought out and researched. If we continue to release info, it will never be to mislead the community. Rather, it will always be to help and instruct the gamer base.
Hey...don't let two bad apples ruin iut Cider Fest!
Nerfing strong players like FOTP is stu pid, he has very little armour if you fear him get a fast team get his **** out of there THATS ALL he has got is a hit. If all characters were same or similar imagine how boring the game would be!!! I like seeing a FOTP makes me shutter a bit, I have FOTP Maul, Ren, Who are you targeting?? Makes it more fun .. Tank up with a healer and a couple of hitters you now have a longer played out game esp if they are speedy!! So many out comes.. I'm running Han as a leader for his leader skills, his defence allows my back row get going Hans like a big punching bag!.. Nerfing characters is just stu pid.... Build a team to cope not all teams will be effective against all opposition
His damage is simply way too high. Consistent 8.5k crits without offense up/expose/assist bonus/leader skill isn't fair. HP at 10.5k is just gravy.
Normally I'd agree about nerfing but if there's one character who needs it it's FOTP.
Ok I'll bite. What use would FOTP if you nerfed his damage? He doesn't heal. He doesnt buff his team. He doesn't debuff...what good would he be? You don't think about that do you? I can tell you for a FACT they won't nerf him. So my advice to you would be instead of trying to justify making every character balanced with easily attainable characters spend that energy farming FOTP or buy a lot of chrono cards. If neither of those are a option for you I guess tough luck my friend.
If they don't nerf his damage to a reasonable amount whales like you will have an advantage for a while, I guess. You come off as a pompous **** in almost every post.
He'll still be very viable if they lower his damage output by 15% or his double attack chance. He's one of the highest damage characters in swgoh...
TIE is so one-dimensional though. He's also slow. I think he's much less of a concern than the Poe topic here. FOTP's lack of speed means you can put effects on him or kill him. Damage down TIE with Old Ben or some other toon and he's really a non-factor. Given that he's one-dimensional, if his one skill is nerfed much at all he loses value incredibly fast. He has no leader skill, no ailment effects, he can't heal, he has no aoe...he's just a high damage toon with moderate to below average speed. Once you have more of the roster he's actually pretty easy to gameplan for because he only has one way to impact the match.
Contrast that with QGJ - Jinn can impact the match a lot even if he is damage down. He has an ally assist that does 75% more damage. He also has a dispel ability that does big damage and then gives the team offense up...and the guy is pretty darned fast too - he's hard to just kill outright unless you are dooku stunning him or a very few other options. He has various dimensions and depth that adds to his value. If they pull the Barriss level nerf sledge-hammer on TIE he will be no good...especially considering that he gets no additional gear in the level cap raise, so he's already going to come back to the pack on a relative basis. That + a nerf and this one-dimensional guy could very quickly be zero dimensional.
Again, Poe is a strong player in the current metagame because of high damage single target attackers, with the biggest offender being FOTP. I'm not sure how anyone can think his damage is balanced, and the only ones arguing he is seem to use or have invested in him. When a basic attack is that strong you need to take notice. With all the powerful assists he's insane and an auto include for any team that has him 6*+.
Nerfing strong players like FOTP is stu pid, he has very little armour if you fear him get a fast team get his **** out of there THATS ALL he has got is a hit. If all characters were same or similar imagine how boring the game would be!!! I like seeing a FOTP makes me shutter a bit, I have FOTP Maul, Ren, Who are you targeting?? Makes it more fun .. Tank up with a healer and a couple of hitters you now have a longer played out game esp if they are speedy!! So many out comes.. I'm running Han as a leader for his leader skills, his defence allows my back row get going Hans like a big punching bag!.. Nerfing characters is just stu pid.... Build a team to cope not all teams will be effective against all opposition
His damage is simply way too high. Consistent 8.5k crits without offense up/expose/assist bonus/leader skill isn't fair. HP at 10.5k is just gravy.
Normally I'd agree about nerfing but if there's one character who needs it it's FOTP.
Ok I'll bite. What use would FOTP if you nerfed his damage? He doesn't heal. He doesnt buff his team. He doesn't debuff...what good would he be? You don't think about that do you? I can tell you for a FACT they won't nerf him. So my advice to you would be instead of trying to justify making every character balanced with easily attainable characters spend that energy farming FOTP or buy a lot of chrono cards. If neither of those are a option for you I guess tough luck my friend.
If they don't nerf his damage to a reasonable amount whales like you will have an advantage for a while, I guess. You come off as a pompous **** in almost every post.
He'll still be very viable if they lower his damage output by 15% or his double attack chance. He's one of the highest damage characters in swgoh...
TIE is so one-dimensional though. He's also slow. I think he's much less of a concern than the Poe topic here. FOTP's lack of speed means you can put effects on him or kill him. Damage down TIE with Old Ben or some other toon and he's really a non-factor. Given that he's one-dimensional, if his one skill is nerfed much at all he loses value incredibly fast. He has no leader skill, no ailment effects, he can't heal, he has no aoe...he's just a high damage toon with moderate to below average speed. Once you have more of the roster he's actually pretty easy to gameplan for because he only has one way to impact the match.
Contrast that with QGJ - Jinn can impact the match a lot even if he is damage down. He has an ally assist that does 75% more damage. He also has a dispel ability that does big damage and then gives the team offense up...and the guy is pretty darned fast too - he's hard to just kill outright unless you are dooku stunning him or a very few other options. He has various dimensions and depth that adds to his value. If they pull the Barriss level nerf sledge-hammer on TIE he will be no good...especially considering that he gets no additional gear in the level cap raise, so he's already going to come back to the pack on a relative basis. That + a nerf and this one-dimensional guy could very quickly be zero dimensional.
Nerf of slow farmed chars destroy f2p and mid level soenders. Because they cannot change strategies fast enough, and updates comenin every month or so, they lag and lag and can't adjust meta. The are not only not able to use any premium char, they also cannot use any slow farmable char including: Ls-Ds only chars like Rey, none of the Arena chars, and limited in GW-only chars. Fastest for f2p are farmable in Arena or GW + Cantina or multi missions LSDS.
By balancing the game, they don't balance anything. A medium spendernis always a month away or more, so when anythings gets balanced, it just means he/she got the entire unbalance, and couldn't recoup one bit of it.
That's why I prefer Leia brought up spec, and keep reading good threads like this. I am a month away from a usable Poe, and it's less theoretical to me...it's nerf and through away a month of cantina or two...or betting on something equaly risky.
Game is not designed to please everyone. But I rather have things not nerfed so plans stick.
Once you have more of the roster he's actually pretty easy to gameplan for because he only has one way to impact the match.
It's easy to say expand and build up your roster, but that is often a luxury to most F2P players. FOTP is technically a farmable hero, but very few F2P players have the resources to farm him to a 6/7-star. Hence, you often get to only see him in a P2P team, paired with Leia and Poe.
Poe? It takes 132 days (without any energy refill) to get him to a 7-star from the Cantina Shipment. That's 4+ months. The top of the arena is already full of teams led by a 7-star Poe.
This is why the game is flooded with the same Sid/Lumi/Phasma team - not because they are necessarily the best, but because they are the best options within the truly farmable heroes (Arena and GW). This is why the forum is also flooded with nerf threads on FOTP and Poe (and it used to be on Barriss and Dooku); most players just don't have the means within their roster to counter them.
Speed isn't everything. If damage was tuned down a little we'd have a completely different game where reactive play is possible. QGJ definitely needs a nerf currently if you're arguing for nerfs on the characters you listed above.
Also, you're referencing speculative numbers about level 70 stats that are unconfirmed, and calling for a nerf in part based on this.
A tank that does practically Barriss level damage isn't the problem at all, it's the possible damage from FOTP/Leia/GS, etc, in combination with assisting threats, most notably QGJ that need a adjustment. If a 50% damage buff on an assist (2 high damage attacks in one turn) isn't totally imbalanced given the current damage potential from these 7* teams idk what is.
Actually, speed is everything.
What's the point of having a team of heavy hitters if they never get a chance? At least Dooku and Daka (with the speed bonus from Asajj) can possibly neutralise Poe's taunt in the current world (but even that is a big if because of his high tenacity).
However, if Poe does go first in the new world and ahead of even Dooku as some speculate, then as EwokRampage pointed out, there is no other counter other than having your Poe go first. The definition of OP is when there is no counter.
I'd agree with this - but the issue is even at lvl 70 - gear 8 - that's not end game. Sure it's the next temporary new world, but it's still not the finish line. Should we balance stuff before we really know where it's going to end up...where other toons will end up...and what new toons / mechanics will be introduced in the coming weeks and months? Does it even matter for now and at lvl 70 that he's really strong? Let's even just assume he has no counter at his lvl 70 g8, but at full end game he is countered by multiple toons. What's the proper action? What if at g9 many toons get a lot of speed? What if they come out with a new toon that has a counter mechanic or buff something else that mitigates Poe? Why just suggest a nerf? I just don't think we have sufficient information on where the game really is at this point to confidently say nerf this nerf that.
Just for example, if Blizzard have waited the last extension to balance classes, jeez...
I don't think waiting "end game" to balance characters is the right way, EA should balance characters for each raised level cap to ensure a good balance for everyone at all stage.
Especially in a competitive game where PVP ranks offer so much rewards, OP team that can't be countered need to be balanced, because if the same people are camping the highest ladder ranks, they will get more and more advance without any solution to close the gap for the others players, i'm currently facing this kind of problem on my server. P2W players camping the TOP ladder, and with all that cristals reward they can keep their distances with other players by buying more energy per day, meaning more XP earned, more gears, more shards per day, no way to close the gap, unless you come with a P2W account.
Once you have more of the roster he's actually pretty easy to gameplan for because he only has one way to impact the match.
It's easy to say expand and build up your roster, but that is often a luxury to most F2P players. FOTP is technically a farmable hero, but very few F2P players have the resources to farm him to a 6/7-star. Hence, you often get to only see him in a P2P team, paired with Leia and Poe.
Poe? It takes 132 days (without any energy refill) to get him to a 7-star from the Cantina Shipment. That's 4+ months. The top of the arena is already full of teams led by a 7-star Poe.
This is why the game is flooded with the same Sid/Lumi/Phasma team - not because they are necessarily the best, but because they are the best options within the truly farmable heroes (Arena and GW). This is why the forum is also flooded with nerf threads on FOTP and Poe (and it used to be on Barriss and Dooku); most players just don't have the means within their roster to counter them.
Poe doesn't need to be 7* at all. His health gain from 4-7* is modest and his biggest action is just firing that taunt skill, changing the meter, directing the first few shots, and the expose. As long as you're bringing offensive firepower in the match that can kill stuff in round 1 Poe getting killed at the end of round 1 is not an issue. This is why he's a gift to F2P. He doesn't need to be close to 7* to function at a high level.
Once you have more of the roster he's actually pretty easy to gameplan for because he only has one way to impact the match.
It's easy to say expand and build up your roster, but that is often a luxury to most F2P players. FOTP is technically a farmable hero, but very few F2P players have the resources to farm him to a 6/7-star. Hence, you often get to only see him in a P2P team, paired with Leia and Poe.
This is a good topic. Let's say we are the game designers. What level would you balance the game to? I have posted in here a fast P2P team that can run circles around FOTP and makes him look like an average guy. When he doesn't have speed advantage, he's manageable and only gets off one shot before bowing out. To do this though may require chrome-type characters or a high level gear / star composition of 5 farmable toons of varying difficulty. Essentially then to many players FOTP will seem very unbeatable and unbalanced. In his segment of P2P toons though, he's already been dethroned vs. faster builds - same for Poe. So what should CG / EA do in this case? Here you have a P2P type toon in FOTP because he's a slow farm. In that segment, he's not an uncounterable monster...but to other segments he is. Where should CG balance this toon? Do you balance toons to F2P pace? Low spender? Mid spender? The top 1%?
I'd also say...I think any nerf to a good toon, especially one that is farmable like Poe (and there are low spenders / F2P that successfully use a 3/4* FOTP) hurts the low spender / F2P much more. If a P2P toon is nerfed...just move to next best thing and build it. P2P have deep rosters and can adjust fast. Any F2P or low spender counting on Poe or FOTP is going to be hurting for a good bit and take much longer to recover. Nerfs really don't hurt the P2P much if that is the goal - it's just next man up really.
Here's how I'd sum up the situation for each class assuming a Poe / FOTP nerf:
1. P2P: minimal impact - Poe and FOTP are already bested in the P2P top tier meta now - they are not necessary to a top tier P2P build - losing them at this point will have modest impact in PVP, probably more impact to GW as that will reduce the depth, but won't be detrimental as P2P have good roster depth and can adjust quickly
2. F2P: Depends. If vs. other F2P that utilize these heroes and they don't have these heroes, than it's a big help to those F2P that don't have Poe / TIE. Other F2P low spender that use these toons it will be a big setback. For any F2P / low spender if you're trying to use a nerf here as a way to bring parity with the heavy P2P guys....that won't work as there is already speed / meta beyond the current FOTP /Poe builds...and P2P can adapt and just bring in the next man up. 86 and Geo Soldier are both viable options to replace TIE - or Darth Maul or Rey....and then of course whatever new chrome toons come out after that.
Whatever happens I'm fine with either way. Just on principle I didn't want another Barriss situation where in a few weeks we look back and see it was an unnecessary negative adjustment. Nerfs negatively impact players and the game. They should be used only if completely necessary.
Speed isn't everything. If damage was tuned down a little we'd have a completely different game where reactive play is possible. QGJ definitely needs a nerf currently if you're arguing for nerfs on the characters you listed above.
Also, you're referencing speculative numbers about level 70 stats that are unconfirmed, and calling for a nerf in part based on this.
A tank that does practically Barriss level damage isn't the problem at all, it's the possible damage from FOTP/Leia/GS, etc, in combination with assisting threats, most notably QGJ that need a adjustment. If a 50% damage buff on an assist (2 high damage attacks in one turn) isn't totally imbalanced given the current damage potential from these 7* teams idk what is.
Actually, speed is everything.
What's the point of having a team of heavy hitters if they never get a chance? At least Dooku and Daka (with the speed bonus from Asajj) can possibly neutralise Poe's taunt in the current world (but even that is a big if because of his high tenacity).
However, if Poe does go first in the new world and ahead of even Dooku as some speculate, then as EwokRampage pointed out, there is no other counter other than having your Poe go first. The definition of OP is when there is no counter.
I'd agree with this - but the issue is even at lvl 70 - gear 8 - that's not end game. Sure it's the next temporary new world, but it's still not the finish line. Should we balance stuff before we really know where it's going to end up...where other toons will end up...and what new toons / mechanics will be introduced in the coming weeks and months? Does it even matter for now and at lvl 70 that he's really strong? Let's even just assume he has no counter at his lvl 70 g8, but at full end game he is countered by multiple toons. What's the proper action? What if at g9 many toons get a lot of speed? What if they come out with a new toon that has a counter mechanic or buff something else that mitigates Poe? Why just suggest a nerf? I just don't think we have sufficient information on where the game really is at this point to confidently say nerf this nerf that.
Just for example, if Blizzard have waited the last extension to balance classes, jeez...
I don't think waiting "end game" to balance characters is the right way, EA should balance characters for each raised level cap to ensure a good balance for everyone at all stage.
Especially in a competitive game where PVP ranks offer so much rewards, OP team that can't be countered need to be balanced, because if the same people are camping the highest ladder ranks, they will get more and more advance without any solution to close the gap for the others players, i'm currently facing this kind of problem on my server. P2W players camping the TOP ladder, and with all that cristals reward they can keep their distances with other players by buying more energy per day, meaning more XP earned, more gears, more shards per day, no way to close the gap, unless you come with a P2W account.
This is an excellent point. I'm swayed by this point...maybe we should balance to lvl 70 g8. Balance the game the whole way through and if we lose some characters unnecessarily along the way....well we can always hope for a buff on that toon later or just say hey...it's a sacrifice for the greater good of the game. I could make peace with losing / reducing a character by taking that perspective. I guess than the Barriss nerf was appropriate because at that time she was too powerful - regardless of where she would be in today's game. Let's do it....adjust FOTP and Poe. I'm on board.
Speed isn't everything. If damage was tuned down a little we'd have a completely different game where reactive play is possible. QGJ definitely needs a nerf currently if you're arguing for nerfs on the characters you listed above.
Also, you're referencing speculative numbers about level 70 stats that are unconfirmed, and calling for a nerf in part based on this.
A tank that does practically Barriss level damage isn't the problem at all, it's the possible damage from FOTP/Leia/GS, etc, in combination with assisting threats, most notably QGJ that need a adjustment. If a 50% damage buff on an assist (2 high damage attacks in one turn) isn't totally imbalanced given the current damage potential from these 7* teams idk what is.
Actually, speed is everything.
What's the point of having a team of heavy hitters if they never get a chance? At least Dooku and Daka (with the speed bonus from Asajj) can possibly neutralise Poe's taunt in the current world (but even that is a big if because of his high tenacity).
However, if Poe does go first in the new world and ahead of even Dooku as some speculate, then as EwokRampage pointed out, there is no other counter other than having your Poe go first. The definition of OP is when there is no counter.
I'd agree with this - but the issue is even at lvl 70 - gear 8 - that's not end game. Sure it's the next temporary new world, but it's still not the finish line. Should we balance stuff before we really know where it's going to end up...where other toons will end up...and what new toons / mechanics will be introduced in the coming weeks and months? Does it even matter for now and at lvl 70 that he's really strong? Let's even just assume he has no counter at his lvl 70 g8, but at full end game he is countered by multiple toons. What's the proper action? What if at g9 many toons get a lot of speed? What if they come out with a new toon that has a counter mechanic or buff something else that mitigates Poe? Why just suggest a nerf? I just don't think we have sufficient information on where the game really is at this point to confidently say nerf this nerf that.
Just for example, if Blizzard have waited the last extension to balance classes, jeez...
I don't think waiting "end game" to balance characters is the right way, EA should balance characters for each raised level cap to ensure a good balance for everyone at all stage.
Especially in a competitive game where PVP ranks offer so much rewards, OP team that can't be countered need to be balanced, because if the same people are camping the highest ladder ranks, they will get more and more advance without any solution to close the gap for the others players, i'm currently facing this kind of problem on my server. P2W players camping the TOP ladder, and with all that cristals reward they can keep their distances with other players by buying more energy per day, meaning more XP earned, more gears, more shards per day, no way to close the gap, unless you come with a P2W account.
This is an excellent point. I'm swayed by this point...maybe we should balance to lvl 70 g8. Balance the game the whole way through and if we lose some characters unnecessarily along the way....well we can always hope for a buff on that toon later or just say hey...it's a sacrifice for the greater good of the game. I could make peace with losing / reducing a character by taking that perspective. I guess than the Barriss nerf was appropriate because at that time she was too powerful - regardless of where she would be in today's game. Let's do it....adjust FOTP and Poe. I'm on board.
I hear you about nerf until new content, i understand that, but if you always wait "end game" to balance things, well, you'll never balance them, it seems they will release new contents, the game is young and there is plenty of things to do before reaching the end game.
Leia also need to be fixed, her damage output is just insane, probably the highest, she can kill any character during her turn and it happens quite often, it's clearly not acceptable.
Poe, FOTP, Leia. I don't think nerfing them to the ground is the solution, just some fixes and tweaks.
From my newbie point of view, Arena Squad is all about speed and burst damage, you can have healers in your team, if you characters getting one shotted before they can do anything...it's clearly not fair.
I agree with Team Instinct on this one. CG should balance for the current level cap, not a future level cap. I don't want to play a horribly imbalanced game and then hear "don't worry, it'll be balanced in three months". CG should balance the game at each stage. Right now, Poe and FOTP are OP, and I think it's dumb that people say "it's okay that they aren't balanced because they will be balanced in a few months when the level cap gets raised". I won't be around to see the level cap get raised if they don't balance things for the present level cap.
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Happy to consult and look forward to your future contributions.
143 ya?
TeamInstinct.net -- Community Site and Home to Team Instinct
Thanks for the post. As a member of Team Instinct, I know I am not alone when I think that putting information out to the public (instead of keeping it in house) is sometimes more trouble than it is worth.
While we don't claim to be the sole source of 100% perfect information for this game, what we do decide to release is always well thought out and researched. If we continue to release info, it will never be to mislead the community. Rather, it will always be to help and instruct the gamer base.
Yet you have free players here arguing that since he's F2P farmable (this is a F2P toon we are talking about here) it gives them an option against the top teams of whales. Poe is a F2P / P2P equalizer. Maybe your biased in that you have this pay / free bias that taints your view of how you interpret comments.
I absolutely think a Poe nerf helps P2P like myself much more than it hurts. If the Poe speed threshold can't be eclipsed, I can't get a speed advantage over a diligent free player. We will be speed equals. Nerfing Poe locks in a P2P advantage. I'm already built now to beat Poe at 138. If he's nerfed and stays slower, I will have speed advantage all day and walk all over a free player. So if I'm being selfish and having some biased view...sure ... nerf Poe. Helps me a lot. I'll be able to acquire and have speed toons and not have to worry about him.
Your point against me makes no sense Fanta.
Also, I am not following how a Poe speed nerf will be more helpful to p2p than f2p? If anything, it will hurt p2p people who have got him in packs and farmed him up, or just invested lots of money into crystals to farm him.
Keeping Poe's current speed will be the equalizer; increasing his speed will break him, and possibly, the game.
Ok I'll bite. What use would FOTP if you nerfed his damage? He doesn't heal. He doesnt buff his team. He doesn't debuff...what good would he be? You don't think about that do you? I can tell you for a FACT they won't nerf him. So my advice to you would be instead of trying to justify making every character balanced with easily attainable characters spend that energy farming FOTP or buy a lot of chrono cards. If neither of those are a option for you I guess tough luck my friend. I have a 6* FOTP and don't use or have plans to use him. So Im not being biased at all. FOTP is fine.
All characters that are over 143 speed are f2p,except leia(who most likely be fixed), and farmable. Actually I would say almost all of the best characters are in someway farmable for free to play unless they release some new character only available in packs.
If they don't nerf his damage to a reasonable amount whales like you will have an advantage for a while, I guess. You come off as a pompous **** in almost every post.
He'll still be very viable if they lower his damage output by 15% or his double attack chance. He's one of the highest damage characters in swgoh...
Didnt jesse mention somethiing about "talking to developers about FOTP's balance" or something like that? People really should wait until this game is complete before calling for nerfs, for all we know at lvl70 FOTP could be useless and if he nerfed now then he might be a total throw away and that'll snowball into another "omg i want my money back."
Didn't say he wouldn't be really strong at 70 and 143 (IF that is what end up in production and his speed gears on g8 are no level cappped)...but that's not end game. g8 lvl 70 is not end game. I just don't think we should be balancing to the game 2 months after hard launch. The Barriss nerf was a nerf way too early and it was botched. In hindsight that was unnecessary and CG caved to all the nerf bunnies. I don't want to repeat that mistake again. I'd prefer we see true end game and then assess. I don't disagree with your assessment for g8 @ lvl 70 - but I disagree on whether that stopping point is important enough to nerf a character, possibly prematurely.
Nerfing Poe helps pay players more because Poe at 143 will set the meta speed bar (assuming all else stays the same in the game and the projection of 143 goes in to production). Since he's so readily available to all players - free / low / big spend - everyone will be on roughly equal speed / initiative turns. As we know - speed / initiative is what PVP has become all about.
As a pay player, I have access to Rey, Jinn, and Leia that F2P or low spenders really don't (Rey is a super slow farm). Jinn fights currently in the same speed as Poe and with dispel is a great natural counter to him even if he does proc. Leia is key right now to just kill Poe before he even moves. Sure Dooku and Sid are available, but having Leia, Rey, and Jinn currently are big advantages to facing Poe at 138 speed. I don't even need Poe or Tie to beat a Poe / Tie team with Leia / Rey / Dooku / Sid / Jinn. That build becomes easy. So...if Poe is nerfed ... helps me and helps other P2P that have Jinn / Leia / Rey. Disadvantage to F2P that don't have access to those toons.
There's no question a Poe nerf shifts an advantage to P2P more as they have more units that can just hit past Poe at 138. If he's 143, that advantage won't exist as you've already pointed out.
You don't need toons over 143 speed to hard counter Poe though - Jinn / Rey are key components to countering him hard...and Leia is a big piece as she can start the damage early on him. While Sid / Rey / Jinn are in the same turn with Poe now, that's 3/4 toons that are in that mix that will give you a good chance to get 3 hits on him before he moves: Dooku, Leia, and one of Rey / Jinn / Sid. Jinn is key because if he gets initiative his assist will essentially mean 4x hits on Poe and he's going to die before moving. If Poe procs before Jinn, Jinn can dispel him quick and give everyone O up.
So as a P2P having access to Rey / Leia / Jinn I have a reliable solution to Poe / Tie teams right now that F2P don't have access to. As Poe gets faster - I Iose that advantage to Poe and to other F2P that would be using Poe.
Now ... is that good for the game that everyone has the speed meta setting toon? Probably not. Is g8 lvl 70 though the right place to make nerf calls when we are not even two months in the game? I think that's the split in opinion. I don't debate your overall premise about Poe at 143 speed relative to the game as it exists today.
TIE is so one-dimensional though. He's also slow. I think he's much less of a concern than the Poe topic here. FOTP's lack of speed means you can put effects on him or kill him. Damage down TIE with Old Ben or some other toon and he's really a non-factor. Given that he's one-dimensional, if his one skill is nerfed much at all he loses value incredibly fast. He has no leader skill, no ailment effects, he can't heal, he has no aoe...he's just a high damage toon with moderate to below average speed. Once you have more of the roster he's actually pretty easy to gameplan for because he only has one way to impact the match.
Contrast that with QGJ - Jinn can impact the match a lot even if he is damage down. He has an ally assist that does 75% more damage. He also has a dispel ability that does big damage and then gives the team offense up...and the guy is pretty darned fast too - he's hard to just kill outright unless you are dooku stunning him or a very few other options. He has various dimensions and depth that adds to his value. If they pull the Barriss level nerf sledge-hammer on TIE he will be no good...especially considering that he gets no additional gear in the level cap raise, so he's already going to come back to the pack on a relative basis. That + a nerf and this one-dimensional guy could very quickly be zero dimensional.
This is not true. Theres a chance for whales to assign Phasma as leader and there is 16% chance for one of the ally to attack. If that assisting ally turns out to first order tie pilot....
There are three ways you could make her more viable. (That I'll cover here)
1. Increase her healing from basic attacks and reduce the cooldown on her heal. The % of turn meter would probably need to be adjusted down. This creates a system where she heals over time to compensate for the health list by her party heal. This also doesn't work in the current speed meta but would help in DS battles.
2. Remove the health loss on party heal and buff the amount healed. This is the easy option but it turns her into a generic healer. I like balancing the risk of losing 20% health for the party heal. That said, the DS needs a healing system overhaul and I like offensive healing for the DS. (Life drain, DoT, etc.) it just fits.
3. Give Talia an AOE attack placing a dot (similar to Sid) on the enemy team, subject to removal it would heal Talia and her party members for say 4% per dot present on the enemy team. This is a fun way to bring some interesting dynamics to dark side healing.
What's the best no Chromium char tonDamage Down Pilot and Leia? Is there any recommendarion for Damage Down that acts before Qui Gin assit, Leia 4x and FOTP 3x?
Hey...don't let two bad apples ruin iut Cider Fest!
Nerf of slow farmed chars destroy f2p and mid level soenders. Because they cannot change strategies fast enough, and updates comenin every month or so, they lag and lag and can't adjust meta. The are not only not able to use any premium char, they also cannot use any slow farmable char including: Ls-Ds only chars like Rey, none of the Arena chars, and limited in GW-only chars. Fastest for f2p are farmable in Arena or GW + Cantina or multi missions LSDS.
By balancing the game, they don't balance anything. A medium spendernis always a month away or more, so when anythings gets balanced, it just means he/she got the entire unbalance, and couldn't recoup one bit of it.
That's why I prefer Leia brought up spec, and keep reading good threads like this. I am a month away from a usable Poe, and it's less theoretical to me...it's nerf and through away a month of cantina or two...or betting on something equaly risky.
Game is not designed to please everyone. But I rather have things not nerfed so plans stick.
It's easy to say expand and build up your roster, but that is often a luxury to most F2P players. FOTP is technically a farmable hero, but very few F2P players have the resources to farm him to a 6/7-star. Hence, you often get to only see him in a P2P team, paired with Leia and Poe.
Poe? It takes 132 days (without any energy refill) to get him to a 7-star from the Cantina Shipment. That's 4+ months. The top of the arena is already full of teams led by a 7-star Poe.
This is why the game is flooded with the same Sid/Lumi/Phasma team - not because they are necessarily the best, but because they are the best options within the truly farmable heroes (Arena and GW). This is why the forum is also flooded with nerf threads on FOTP and Poe (and it used to be on Barriss and Dooku); most players just don't have the means within their roster to counter them.
Just for example, if Blizzard have waited the last extension to balance classes, jeez...
I don't think waiting "end game" to balance characters is the right way, EA should balance characters for each raised level cap to ensure a good balance for everyone at all stage.
Especially in a competitive game where PVP ranks offer so much rewards, OP team that can't be countered need to be balanced, because if the same people are camping the highest ladder ranks, they will get more and more advance without any solution to close the gap for the others players, i'm currently facing this kind of problem on my server. P2W players camping the TOP ladder, and with all that cristals reward they can keep their distances with other players by buying more energy per day, meaning more XP earned, more gears, more shards per day, no way to close the gap, unless you come with a P2W account.
Poe doesn't need to be 7* at all. His health gain from 4-7* is modest and his biggest action is just firing that taunt skill, changing the meter, directing the first few shots, and the expose. As long as you're bringing offensive firepower in the match that can kill stuff in round 1 Poe getting killed at the end of round 1 is not an issue. This is why he's a gift to F2P. He doesn't need to be close to 7* to function at a high level.
This is a good topic. Let's say we are the game designers. What level would you balance the game to? I have posted in here a fast P2P team that can run circles around FOTP and makes him look like an average guy. When he doesn't have speed advantage, he's manageable and only gets off one shot before bowing out. To do this though may require chrome-type characters or a high level gear / star composition of 5 farmable toons of varying difficulty. Essentially then to many players FOTP will seem very unbeatable and unbalanced. In his segment of P2P toons though, he's already been dethroned vs. faster builds - same for Poe. So what should CG / EA do in this case? Here you have a P2P type toon in FOTP because he's a slow farm. In that segment, he's not an uncounterable monster...but to other segments he is. Where should CG balance this toon? Do you balance toons to F2P pace? Low spender? Mid spender? The top 1%?
I'd also say...I think any nerf to a good toon, especially one that is farmable like Poe (and there are low spenders / F2P that successfully use a 3/4* FOTP) hurts the low spender / F2P much more. If a P2P toon is nerfed...just move to next best thing and build it. P2P have deep rosters and can adjust fast. Any F2P or low spender counting on Poe or FOTP is going to be hurting for a good bit and take much longer to recover. Nerfs really don't hurt the P2P much if that is the goal - it's just next man up really.
Here's how I'd sum up the situation for each class assuming a Poe / FOTP nerf:
1. P2P: minimal impact - Poe and FOTP are already bested in the P2P top tier meta now - they are not necessary to a top tier P2P build - losing them at this point will have modest impact in PVP, probably more impact to GW as that will reduce the depth, but won't be detrimental as P2P have good roster depth and can adjust quickly
2. F2P: Depends. If vs. other F2P that utilize these heroes and they don't have these heroes, than it's a big help to those F2P that don't have Poe / TIE. Other F2P low spender that use these toons it will be a big setback. For any F2P / low spender if you're trying to use a nerf here as a way to bring parity with the heavy P2P guys....that won't work as there is already speed / meta beyond the current FOTP /Poe builds...and P2P can adapt and just bring in the next man up. 86 and Geo Soldier are both viable options to replace TIE - or Darth Maul or Rey....and then of course whatever new chrome toons come out after that.
Whatever happens I'm fine with either way. Just on principle I didn't want another Barriss situation where in a few weeks we look back and see it was an unnecessary negative adjustment. Nerfs negatively impact players and the game. They should be used only if completely necessary.
This is an excellent point. I'm swayed by this point...maybe we should balance to lvl 70 g8. Balance the game the whole way through and if we lose some characters unnecessarily along the way....well we can always hope for a buff on that toon later or just say hey...it's a sacrifice for the greater good of the game. I could make peace with losing / reducing a character by taking that perspective. I guess than the Barriss nerf was appropriate because at that time she was too powerful - regardless of where she would be in today's game. Let's do it....adjust FOTP and Poe. I'm on board.
I hear you about nerf until new content, i understand that, but if you always wait "end game" to balance things, well, you'll never balance them, it seems they will release new contents, the game is young and there is plenty of things to do before reaching the end game.
Leia also need to be fixed, her damage output is just insane, probably the highest, she can kill any character during her turn and it happens quite often, it's clearly not acceptable.
Poe, FOTP, Leia. I don't think nerfing them to the ground is the solution, just some fixes and tweaks.
From my newbie point of view, Arena Squad is all about speed and burst damage, you can have healers in your team, if you characters getting one shotted before they can do anything...it's clearly not fair.