OP here.
I'm honestly puzzled by people saying "wait until you'll hit a squad of level 70". Won't I get there a week later at the most? This game is all about the grind, and my squad - as well as everyone else's - will get better and better as time goes by.
People already have level 70 or are close to it. Whales who were smart were buying energy daily since the update (basically foregoing their 240 ration but buying ~600+). They spent it yesterday. There will be enough who have spent more that they'll leapfrog people who are either not buying extra energy or are limiting themselves to 100 cantina and 50/50 regular.
Because MM is so messed up in GW just as level 50 guys yesterday were facing level 60 full geared teams in a short time you, at 60 or 61, will be seeing the same 'feature'.
1) tone down the over leveled opponents earlier in GW - - - - - Don't you know even they look high level but for the first 6, it still easy opponent teams to beat?
Sorry let me be more clear: you shouldn't get getting opponents that are much stronger than you as early as round 5~ (for me). They should come only in the last 2-3 nodes.
2) actually have your characters heal in between battles (like the description of GW suggests, i believe), so that low-health characters aren't as good as dead - - - - - - Might help only A LITTLE bit but it will not helps your team at all in the next round...I'm using Luminara as a leader, so she gives 300+ Hp every turn to my Jedi, it helps but not so much, remember their damage at least 1k....
Obviously how much they heal would matter. But this would allow you to rotate out low health characters and have them top up over a few rounds. Would be tremendously useful. Agree to disagree, I guess.
3)"super boss" - - - - - - Galactic war is suppose against other player teams...so putting some AI is not a good idea at all
Period...anything else?
You are already matched against some AI teams in GW. So no, this wouldn't be anything new. And this would make the mode a lot more fun. I appreciate the attitude though.
@ OP - that's a nice PVP team to do damage and attack, but as some have pointed out - you need more healers and toons that can maintain health for your team and other toons so you don't lose them over time.
I can't see your Chewy, but Chewy with his high health pool and taunt +self-healing ability is a great GW toon. He's my MVP on nodes 6-9 to get me to the final nodes where I can use attacking teams. I think you want to save your glass cannon / attacking / speed team for the final few nodes. Try to slog your way through nodes 6-9 with healers / taunters. I generally lose Chewy against some attacking team, but he buys me at least 2 nodes generally and saves my attackers / non-healers to be fresh for the final 3 nodes.
Actually the retreat function messed you up for GW. I didn't know how OP retreat was until the last week or so and I developed toons just specifically for GW purposes as a result of having to. I see your Lumi and your JC really need to be pushed up. JC is possibly the best toon for all of GW. He can heal for over 4000 and ...this is the big part...at ability level 6 his heal gets a -1 cooldown so he has a cooldown on that of just 2. On his basic he has a chance to remove his cooldowns by 1, so he can actually go heal / hit / heal on his turns and get in 2 heals in one battle. This makes him > Lumi for GW in my experience. Boost your Lumi, JC, and Chewy and you'll have more options to get through GW nodes 1-9...then you can use your best meter / speed / glass cannon teams on the final few nodes. Once you get in to a rhythm and have waves of teams and have various teams to matchup against other teams, it will get better. As Sero noted, you're bench just isn't deep enough right now.
I have had JC at 7* and maxed gear for...I don't know...more than a month ...and I'm thankful everyday that for whatever reason I pushed him early and fast because he's still paying dividends for me,.. probably more benefit from him than any toon I've built.
The Funny part being: "I think of this a lot like FF7. I remember the first time I was running around the world and I saw a big creature on the map. I remember running at him aaaaaaaand getting my butt handed to me. I also remember the work I put in to eventually beat him AND the feeling of accomplishment when that happened."
Nice comparison, the only problem being in FF7 you can just keep playing and grow as much as you want and try again, over here we just can't, unless of course with our wallets. So pick one, accomplishment or cash, i guess CG/EA prefer cash!
So basically, the legitimate mode that they have now admitted they put in on purpose and was not a glitch (retreat) was being used in some ways they didn't intend, in addition to the ways they did intend. And rather than use the millions of dollars we are paying them to fix it, they wrecked the entire mode by removing ALL uses of retreat, and replacing it with "if you don't like how it's going, just reload from save game as much as you want".
Superb work.
If GW had started out like this there would not be one complaint. GW was actually ment to be like this, that's why they changed it
It clearly was not. The retreat function was modified specifically for GW which is the only real part of the game where the retreat function was actually used.
EA/CG is on record that they did not like that the force exploit and retreat functions were available so they modified the only one they could easily modify to match the behavior of the other.
They did it for expediency not to meet any intended game business requirements. Had they 'intended' GW to be played this way it would have called it 'restart' or 'load from last save' some other more obvious verbiage. The very definition of retreat is that you fall back. Not that you restart.
Even on reddit the dev stated that the pre-patch 'retreat' was considered an exploit and they certainly did not envision it that way.
Going off from verbatim is simply not going to prove you right whether it is called retreat or restart.
The admin/dev team here posted not long ago that they have no representative on reddit though, when someone calling themselves a dev posted there, correct @CG_AaronNemoyten ?
Unless that's changed in the past couple of weeks, which it may have done but if not, then that was no dev on reddit.
New post by the dev or at least a team member on reddit regarding the GW. And I'm quite certain he is at the very least affiliated with CG in a manner otherwise he'd not have the flair.
The intent behind Galactic Wars is to present a challenge that is, effectively, the hardest you've ever faced. It was NEVER designed to be a cake walk, and in fact, was not designed to even be fully completed until the player had a significantly powerful roster they could rotate through. It was designed so that, during play, you would lose units. Knowing this, we allowed for a player to retreat, re-work their party and then continue. Furthermore, we anticipated that (most) players would not be able to fully complete GW every day until they had spent more time building up a diverse roster of leveled-up characters.
What happened, however, was that players utilized an oversight to circumvent the intention of GW. When it was discovered that this was the defacto style of play, we fixed it. As noted in the description of GW (which has been in the game since we launched it) this style of play was never our intention. Retreat was intended as a tactical option so player would not be trapped in a helpless situation watching their entire party get wiped out because they couldn't replace a unit.
GW is supposed to increase in difficulty. GW is supposed to give you new random enemies every day. GW us supposed to be "end game" content. When you start hitting the level cap, those enemies, by the nature of the design, will be, for a time, extraordinarily difficult to defeat. It is very likely you will not be able to defeat them initially.
That's part of the game. It's supposed to get more difficult and to encourage players to experiment with their roster, to level up more than just the five or so units that you use in PvP, and to experiment with synergies. It's supposed to be a major accomplishment when you defeat GW
NOW, THAT SAID, are there units that may or may not be OP? It's possible. I think we've demonstrated that we're always keeping an eye on unit behaviour and adjusting accordingly. This would be a separate issue and one that we are always working on.
I'd like to address a few comments I've read.
/u/Guyde said:
Now the strategy is more or less gone. No more watching turn meters to figure out the optimal time to swap out a damaged squad member. No more battles for Chewie the pinch-tanker, always willing to soak up a round of damage and then be benched, knowing that you'd heal him up later after Sid had been dealth with. No more love for poor Royal Guard and his magnificently weak Nerf Sword, allowing Lumi and JC to finish cooldowns before the next round. No more... strategy.
IF that was how people were using Retreat, this would never have been an issue. What was happening is, players would wait until the enemy popped all their skills, retreat, come back in and all buffs/debuffs on the enemy were gone and they couldn't use their skills. The other thing they were doing was retreating when a unit got low, swapping out for all healers, going back in and healing to full health, retreating and then bringing back a full unit.
/u/CableSCES
I honestly don't see how we're supposed to complete GW now. I'm level 55 and facing all purple 6/7 star level 60 teams... I can run through my entire array of characters and not take that out. Gah. Too rough.
I think of this a lot like FF7. I remember the first time I was running around the world and I saw a big creature on the map. I remember running at him aaaaaaaand getting my butt handed to me. I also remember the work I put in to eventually beat him AND the feeling of accomplishment when that happened. Galactic War is designed to have stronger opponents at the end, and to encourage the player to get stronger. At 55, I'd be shocked if you were able to fully beat GW with consistency.
/u/shoulda_kept_lurkin
this update literally made it so the gap between those at 60 and the newcomers is now almost unobtainable for the average person.
This shouldn't happen. When new players join the game, they're assigned to a new bucket so they're grouped with other new players. We don't put new players in to a bucket where everyone is already 60--THAT would be unfair.
That's a nice explanation and I'm glad they have that perspective that difficult content is desired and intended. Games with no challenge or thinking to them get boring fast. I personally enjoy the challenge and it does feel like an accomplishment when you pass it.
I'm going to finish 7* Chewy now for example, just for GW purposes. I like that GW is a different kind of content because it gives value to toons that otherwise wouldn't be worthwhile. If everything was just PVP, I wouldn't use my JC, Barriss, or Chewy at all. Yet in GW they have tremendous value, even more than some of my PVP toons like Rey / Poe. I think that's pretty cool.
Their response to people using retreat to drop buffs/debuffs on the enemy is asinine. Rather than fixing the system so that buffs and debuffss are persistent until the end of a round, they just removed retreat entirely. Lazy programming.
So basically, the legitimate mode that they have now admitted they put in on purpose and was not a glitch (retreat) was being used in some ways they didn't intend, in addition to the ways they did intend. And rather than use the millions of dollars we are paying them to fix it, they wrecked the entire mode by removing ALL uses of retreat, and replacing it with "if you don't like how it's going, just reload from save game as much as you want".
Superb work.
'Millions of dollars you're paying them to fix' sounds petty, exaggerated as well as entitled tbh. I felt they struck a good balance where anything other than this method would leave force-closing viable hence you'd have two methods in order to 'cheese' the GW.
I'm leaning on the possibility that this might be changed in the future but I am content with how things were changed, however trying to sneak this one in without it being in the patch notes even though it was replied still was an error on their part.
So basically, the legitimate mode that they have now admitted they put in on purpose and was not a glitch (retreat) was being used in some ways they didn't intend, in addition to the ways they did intend. And rather than use the millions of dollars we are paying them to fix it, they wrecked the entire mode by removing ALL uses of retreat, and replacing it with "if you don't like how it's going, just reload from save game as much as you want".
Superb work.
Doubt they could fix the force close exploit without majorly changing the way the game works. So instead of spending a huge amount of time and resources trying to fix a problem, it seems they made a decision to legitimatize the force close. Whether its the best decision or not, I'd rather they fix a problem and move to the next instead of wasting enormous amounts of resources fixing minor problems.
What's up guys and gals!
I'm relatively new to the game and just unlocked GW before the update to it. I went to the forums to see what everyone thought, and dang, people are salty. I understand the reason why they are upset but at the same time you can't expect the devs not to change things in the game. Take League as an example, Riot releases controversial updates much to the communities dismay. Yet the game goes on.
In closing I think we should accept the change, for we don't have that much power to change it back. We need to adapt and not be so salty.
Totally respect your opinion, but with regard to the "we don't have that much power to change it back" comment, I don't think that's a great attitude to have.
If the masses don't vocalise their opinions when they aren't happy with something, then nothing will ever change. We are the paying customers (and I use the term 'we' loosely as I'm F2P), we are what keeps the game running long term, and if the majority of us aren't happy then we have the power to influence change.
And I think one of the main issues people have with the change is the complete lack of communication and the fact that it was so out of the blue. It's a MAJOR change, and yet it wasn't in the patch notes, it wasn't even remotely hinted at being changed, and nobody from EA ever even acknowledged that the old retreat tactic wasn't the intended use.
Retreat still works it just resets the match, everyone is back to full health or whatever health you had when you started the match.
Its pretty much is the same as result as force closing. I for one think it was a good idea, if a match doesnt go your, retreat and start again fresh. I lkke it. Plus no more complaints of force closing being cheating.
I'm leaning on the possibility that this might be changed in the future but I am content with how things were changed, however trying to sneak this one in without it being in the patch notes even though it was replied still was an error on their part.
It makes the game much less enjoyable IMHO. Winning GW will require a slightly less diverse set of characters and your "A" team for GW is now going to be different than your "A" team in arena.
Synergies now become moot in GW as the need to stun/heal to be prepped for multiple rounds takes precedence over any kind of synergy that is lost if you lose a single character.
Hopefully when just as many people finish GW as were finishing it before they realize the mistake they made and put it back in. If they can keep the buffs/debuffs that would make it even better imho for those of us who liked the challenge and didn't use force close.
What is rather unfair is that for months people have been able to complete GW easily so get lumi and phasma (and others) maxed 7*
Now newer ppl will not be able to accomplish that at all.
Not an issue for arena since they are facing new players to
BUT HUGE ISSUE for GW where they will face teams with insane rooster filled with heroes they just cannot obtain and max anymore (at least not in 2/3 weeks)
This is the real part that is unfair and should be compensated
What is rather unfair is that for months people have been able to complete GW easily so get lumi and phasma (and others) maxed 7*
Now newer ppl will not be able to accomplish that at all.
Not an issue for arena since they are facing new players to
BUT HUGE ISSUE for GW where they will face teams with insane rooster filled with heroes they just cannot obtain and max anymore (at least not in 2/3 weeks)
This is the real part that is unfair and should be compensated
I'm leaning on the possibility that this might be changed in the future but I am content with how things were changed, however trying to sneak this one in without it being in the patch notes even though it was replied still was an error on their part.
It makes the game much less enjoyable IMHO. Winning GW will require a slightly less diverse set of characters and your "A" team for GW is now going to be different than your "A" team in arena.
Synergies now become moot in GW as the need to stun/heal to be prepped for multiple rounds takes precedence over any kind of synergy that is lost if you lose a single character.
Hopefully when just as many people finish GW as were finishing it before they realize the mistake they made and put it back in. If they can keep the buffs/debuffs that would make it even better imho for those of us who liked the challenge and didn't use force close.
You completely miss the point, force-closing wasn't the issue, retreat-cleansing was. And you contradict yourself at every step, how is the game less enjoyable if you're using an ENTIRE different set of characters for a different game-mode, trying to devise a new strategy if you lose a character rather than forcing your way through the GW with your five best.
Just because you cannot faceroll GW with your best five right now does not make it less enjoyable unless you're a sort of person that thrives upon easy winnings consider them joy.
Tried gw today and admittedly got lucky and finished it. Lost a couple of units on the path there in fact final battle finished 1v1 (vader vs dooku). I have 10 or 12 lvl 60 only 2 7* (lumi and sid). Point is its not easy anymore, there is strategy, when to use heals, who to bring. It's fun again like when I first started it.
Love the game, not spent a penny but thank the guys that do for keeping this game running.
only one strategy remains now...to restart save game as many times as necessary so the fight goes well.
Stop picking at it as if it is a new thing, you could do the same with force-closing. Stop whining just because it requires more than 12 mouse clicks to beat GW.
don't you see a difference??? What can I say... I have never ever used forced close but only retreat function. Today I had to restart 8 times in order to finish stage 9. Well done, I keep retrying until I get RNG results I like... is it fun for you? Maybe... not for me... and not for the majority...
@DarthMasterShawn I read your post and I responded to it I believe appropriately.
Yes it is more fun seeing more line ups to play against . This game has only been out a lil over a month. You will see these lineups in time as people expand their rosters.
Just because you cannot faceroll GW with your best five right now does not make it less enjoyable unless you're a sort of person that thrives upon easy winnings consider them joy.
You completely miss the point. I CAN faceroll GW with my best five now, because any time a match is going poorly, I can restart with a different RNG seed until I get the stuns and blocks and heals I need. I did that last night. I'm half way through today's the same way. 18 straight matches, same 5 characters.
GW is not more difficult now. It's easier and more boring. Not a good combo.
Replies
People already have level 70 or are close to it. Whales who were smart were buying energy daily since the update (basically foregoing their 240 ration but buying ~600+). They spent it yesterday. There will be enough who have spent more that they'll leapfrog people who are either not buying extra energy or are limiting themselves to 100 cantina and 50/50 regular.
Because MM is so messed up in GW just as level 50 guys yesterday were facing level 60 full geared teams in a short time you, at 60 or 61, will be seeing the same 'feature'.
Obviously how much they heal would matter. But this would allow you to rotate out low health characters and have them top up over a few rounds. Would be tremendously useful. Agree to disagree, I guess.
You are already matched against some AI teams in GW. So no, this wouldn't be anything new. And this would make the mode a lot more fun. I appreciate the attitude though.
I can't see your Chewy, but Chewy with his high health pool and taunt +self-healing ability is a great GW toon. He's my MVP on nodes 6-9 to get me to the final nodes where I can use attacking teams. I think you want to save your glass cannon / attacking / speed team for the final few nodes. Try to slog your way through nodes 6-9 with healers / taunters. I generally lose Chewy against some attacking team, but he buys me at least 2 nodes generally and saves my attackers / non-healers to be fresh for the final 3 nodes.
Actually the retreat function messed you up for GW. I didn't know how OP retreat was until the last week or so and I developed toons just specifically for GW purposes as a result of having to. I see your Lumi and your JC really need to be pushed up. JC is possibly the best toon for all of GW. He can heal for over 4000 and ...this is the big part...at ability level 6 his heal gets a -1 cooldown so he has a cooldown on that of just 2. On his basic he has a chance to remove his cooldowns by 1, so he can actually go heal / hit / heal on his turns and get in 2 heals in one battle. This makes him > Lumi for GW in my experience. Boost your Lumi, JC, and Chewy and you'll have more options to get through GW nodes 1-9...then you can use your best meter / speed / glass cannon teams on the final few nodes. Once you get in to a rhythm and have waves of teams and have various teams to matchup against other teams, it will get better. As Sero noted, you're bench just isn't deep enough right now.
I have had JC at 7* and maxed gear for...I don't know...more than a month ...and I'm thankful everyday that for whatever reason I pushed him early and fast because he's still paying dividends for me,.. probably more benefit from him than any toon I've built.
Nice comparison, the only problem being in FF7 you can just keep playing and grow as much as you want and try again, over here we just can't, unless of course with our wallets. So pick one, accomplishment or cash, i guess CG/EA prefer cash!
Superb work.
That's a nice explanation and I'm glad they have that perspective that difficult content is desired and intended. Games with no challenge or thinking to them get boring fast. I personally enjoy the challenge and it does feel like an accomplishment when you pass it.
I'm going to finish 7* Chewy now for example, just for GW purposes. I like that GW is a different kind of content because it gives value to toons that otherwise wouldn't be worthwhile. If everything was just PVP, I wouldn't use my JC, Barriss, or Chewy at all. Yet in GW they have tremendous value, even more than some of my PVP toons like Rey / Poe. I think that's pretty cool.
Um...it is their game.
LOL...that artas guy is funny....saw few of his funny posts
I don't understand where dev implied the otherwise.
'Millions of dollars you're paying them to fix' sounds petty, exaggerated as well as entitled tbh. I felt they struck a good balance where anything other than this method would leave force-closing viable hence you'd have two methods in order to 'cheese' the GW.
I'm leaning on the possibility that this might be changed in the future but I am content with how things were changed, however trying to sneak this one in without it being in the patch notes even though it was replied still was an error on their part.
Doubt they could fix the force close exploit without majorly changing the way the game works. So instead of spending a huge amount of time and resources trying to fix a problem, it seems they made a decision to legitimatize the force close. Whether its the best decision or not, I'd rather they fix a problem and move to the next instead of wasting enormous amounts of resources fixing minor problems.
I'm relatively new to the game and just unlocked GW before the update to it. I went to the forums to see what everyone thought, and dang, people are salty. I understand the reason why they are upset but at the same time you can't expect the devs not to change things in the game. Take League as an example, Riot releases controversial updates much to the communities dismay. Yet the game goes on.
In closing I think we should accept the change, for we don't have that much power to change it back. We need to adapt and not be so salty.
neff out
Edit: typo
please quote
If the masses don't vocalise their opinions when they aren't happy with something, then nothing will ever change. We are the paying customers (and I use the term 'we' loosely as I'm F2P), we are what keeps the game running long term, and if the majority of us aren't happy then we have the power to influence change.
And I think one of the main issues people have with the change is the complete lack of communication and the fact that it was so out of the blue. It's a MAJOR change, and yet it wasn't in the patch notes, it wasn't even remotely hinted at being changed, and nobody from EA ever even acknowledged that the old retreat tactic wasn't the intended use.
Exact.....
It makes the game much less enjoyable IMHO. Winning GW will require a slightly less diverse set of characters and your "A" team for GW is now going to be different than your "A" team in arena.
Synergies now become moot in GW as the need to stun/heal to be prepped for multiple rounds takes precedence over any kind of synergy that is lost if you lose a single character.
Hopefully when just as many people finish GW as were finishing it before they realize the mistake they made and put it back in. If they can keep the buffs/debuffs that would make it even better imho for those of us who liked the challenge and didn't use force close.
Now newer ppl will not be able to accomplish that at all.
Not an issue for arena since they are facing new players to
BUT HUGE ISSUE for GW where they will face teams with insane rooster filled with heroes they just cannot obtain and max anymore (at least not in 2/3 weeks)
This is the real part that is unfair and should be compensated
No one needs compensation.
You completely miss the point, force-closing wasn't the issue, retreat-cleansing was. And you contradict yourself at every step, how is the game less enjoyable if you're using an ENTIRE different set of characters for a different game-mode, trying to devise a new strategy if you lose a character rather than forcing your way through the GW with your five best.
Just because you cannot faceroll GW with your best five right now does not make it less enjoyable unless you're a sort of person that thrives upon easy winnings consider them joy.
Love the game, not spent a penny but thank the guys that do for keeping this game running.
Stop picking at it as if it is a new thing, you could do the same with force-closing. Stop whining just because it requires more than 12 mouse clicks to beat GW.
Yes it is more fun seeing more line ups to play against . This game has only been out a lil over a month. You will see these lineups in time as people expand their rosters.
You completely miss the point. I CAN faceroll GW with my best five now, because any time a match is going poorly, I can restart with a different RNG seed until I get the stuns and blocks and heals I need. I did that last night. I'm half way through today's the same way. 18 straight matches, same 5 characters.
GW is not more difficult now. It's easier and more boring. Not a good combo.
Now everyone knows that you got a really poor squad. Gear up, star up and level up like the rest who can clear GW.