The Gear Grind: A Problem of Supply vs. Demand

Replies

  • Excellent thread.
  • I really hope this gets put into consideration.
  • Saraleb
    2070 posts Member
    No offence and i liked your post but its something everyone (including devs) is already aware off.. bottle knecks in gear is nothing new especially for a farming game such as this
  • Based on this video and Reddit link, I think it's pretty clear the devs aren't aware of this, instead of purposefully hosing us with gear.

    (Just listen to the first 10-13 mins of the video. It's of Salera and Capgasp being interviewed about gear.)


    https://m.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/50phtx/we_have_been_told_that_gear_is_kinda_confusing/?ref=search_posts
    FN 2187, Mighty Chlorians (spelt with a lowercase l not a capital I): Heroic AAT Guide, The Gear Grind
  • Saraleb
    2070 posts Member
    Oh ok... and theres me thinking they would go on record and say there was a problem hence have to fix it...
  • Saraleb wrote: »
    Oh ok... and theres me thinking they would go on record and say there was a problem hence have to fix it...

    That's what the gear pack is there for :lol:
    FN 2187, Mighty Chlorians (spelt with a lowercase l not a capital I): Heroic AAT Guide, The Gear Grind
  • Aaaaaaand that was buried too :unamused:
    FN 2187, Mighty Chlorians (spelt with a lowercase l not a capital I): Heroic AAT Guide, The Gear Grind
  • ... and while I was reading your post! Seriously, this is a problem. Somebody earlier mentioned a need for 300 stun cuffs. I must say LOL, you're just getting started. My roster currently needs 1100 stun cuffs, 1050 M6 hypos, 1300 M3 sensors ... and that's just to satisfy the needs of their current gear level! Literally thousands of other pieces.

    Just in those three pieces, if we assume 20% drop rate from sims (and ignoring Challenge rewards for a moment), that requires 17,250 sims. Now, if I buy two energy refreshes per day plus bonus energy that gives me 495 energy each day (did I do that right? close enough). Assume 10 energy per sim, we can round that to 50 sims per day. It would take 345 days to fill the gear need just at my characters' current levels, and just for those three pieces! I've been playing for a year, and still this mountain of gear needs that tells me right now ANOTHER YEAR AT MINIMUM to gear everyone up at this level.

    Spend money to reduce the load? Clearly the intended solution. And I have, a few times. But it goes down the rabbit hole so fast and still the gear mountain is there. It doesn't go away. Spending alone does not fix the problem, and we're not all going to spend crazy insane whale money on this game.

    Just look at this gear mountain I'm currently working on. It just gets bigger, never smaller.gE3GVCP.png
  • I would be happy if we could just get lower level blue gear added back to the upper level gear challenges
  • An earlier discussion got me thinking about how long it will take me to farm up all the gear my characters need at their current gear levels. I have 55 characters at gear levels VII or higher, let's just consider them.

    No joke, I currently need over 12,000 pieces of salvage just to fill their gear needs at this level. Let's say I buy two energy refreshes per day; with bonus energy, that gives me 615 energy per day. Let's use all of that to farm gear, assuming 10 energy per sim, so that's 61.5 sims per day. If 20% of those sims drop gear for me, that's ~12 gear every day. Some pretty easy math tells me I'll need 1000 days (2.7 years) to get those 12,000 pieces just to fill their current needs.

    Even if I were to go nuts and refresh six times per day, I'll get ~110 sims per day, or around 22 gear. That's still 545 days just for what they need right now, and I'm not doing that anyway, so I'm looking at 2.7 years in gear needs right now. Add in a new character and MORE gear needed when I move up a gear level, I can safely assume at least 3 years of gear farming in my future.

    Oh sure, some of that gear is available in challenges and raids. I'll be generous and say that cuts my time in half (it doesn't). So at least a year and a half. Plus, some of that gear is only in the AAT raid ... I'll never get that stuff.

    No worries though. Keep grinding that gear and leveling up to reveal the NEXT gear level. There will be plenty to keep me pushing that sim button, seemingly forever.

    Solution: buy more gear! Well, I have actually. It helps for a little bit, and it does move your target hero along a bit faster. But Gear Mountain never goes away, it just gets bigger.
    gE3GVCP.png
  • Maegor
    1217 posts Member
    As soon as you start purchasing the 100 energy refreshes you start losing versus buying gear with credits from the shipments store for the 50 purple salvage items (cuffs, stun guns, etc). But I did my calcs with an assumed drop rate of 1/6, and you are using 1/5, so your calcs may be different than mine. For what it's worth, my 1/6 drop rate value came from a reddit thread where a player tracked drop rates. Not entirely sure it is correct.
  • 1/6 drop rate just extends the timeline.
  • This is getting ridiculous, no wonder why many people quit the game
  • Have you seen this:

    https://swgoh.gg/db/gear/154/mk-7-cec-fusion-furnace/

    Or this:

    https://swgoh.gg/db/gear/142/mk-6-akt-stun-gun/


    The grind hasn't even started yet.....

  • Oh god no, I hadn't seen those items. Mk 8 Biotech Implant: used by 87 characters. And that doesn't count the implants needed to fill the Mk 6 stun guns!
  • Maegor
    1217 posts Member
    1/6 drop rate just extends the timeline.

    I was just honestly asking if you have data that supports 1/5 drop rate. If so, I'd like to know.
    Mvnson wrote: »
    Have you seen this:

    https://swgoh.gg/db/gear/154/mk-7-cec-fusion-furnace/

    Or this:

    https://swgoh.gg/db/gear/142/mk-6-akt-stun-gun/


    The grind hasn't even started yet.....

    Those are pretty absurd. Any datamined info and when levels would increase to accommodate that gear?
  • I knew that was going to happen. Thanks for adding this post to where you felt it belonged.
  • pargame
    989 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    Did you see where they move the thread :smile: Can you access it from Home? :smile:
    Funny
    Obviously this is the reason why developers don't know about gear grind - moderators put in a place which is not accessible :smile:
    I agree with everything.
    When this thread starts I plan to write a post and to try to explain that this is WAI and there is no other way to keep players to play and spend for so long time and that they do this by controlling drop rates just for a few gear items....
    but then I saw @EventineElessedil post... it is like a punch in my face...2.7 YEARS and according to your swgoh profile you've got 54 collection score... mine is 37.. what the hell...
    Meditate on this I will

    EDIT: there was a problem and when I open "Feedback home" there were no links - just labels. Now there are links so it is accessible from HOME

    EDIT2: Just to notice that farming gives more then one gear type so it will take less time. Please no need to recalculate it - even if we reduce it 3 times it is still a long time... just for current level.
  • Mvnson wrote: »
    Have you seen this:

    https://swgoh.gg/db/gear/154/mk-7-cec-fusion-furnace/

    Or this:

    https://swgoh.gg/db/gear/142/mk-6-akt-stun-gun/


    The grind hasn't even started yet.....

    I looked at these maybe a couple months ago and nearly went into an induced coma...

    If nothing changes gear-wise by the time the next cap comes out, everyone from ftp to minor whale will quit because of the endless ensuing gear grind.
    FN 2187, Mighty Chlorians (spelt with a lowercase l not a capital I): Heroic AAT Guide, The Gear Grind
  • scuba
    12142 posts Member
    benacrow wrote: »
    Based on this video and Reddit link, I think it's pretty clear the devs aren't aware of this, instead of purposefully hosing us with gear.

    (Just listen to the first 10-13 mins of the video. It's of Salera and Capgasp being interviewed about gear.)


    https://m.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/50phtx/we_have_been_told_that_gear_is_kinda_confusing/?ref=search_posts

    Yeah, based on that interview the gear grind doesn't exist and is WAI.
  • scuba wrote: »
    benacrow wrote: »
    Based on this video and Reddit link, I think it's pretty clear the devs aren't aware of this, instead of purposefully hosing us with gear.

    (Just listen to the first 10-13 mins of the video. It's of Salera and Capgasp being interviewed about gear.)


    https://m.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/50phtx/we_have_been_told_that_gear_is_kinda_confusing/?ref=search_posts

    Yeah, based on that interview the gear grind doesn't exist and is WAI.

    What are you talking about no one needs cuffs. The galactic gear pack gave everyone enough cuffs, plus they already get enough from every pit raid since they're obviously the only ones that drop :lol:
    FN 2187, Mighty Chlorians (spelt with a lowercase l not a capital I): Heroic AAT Guide, The Gear Grind
  • pargame
    989 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    benacrow wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    benacrow wrote: »
    Based on this video and Reddit link, I think it's pretty clear the devs aren't aware of this, instead of purposefully hosing us with gear.

    (Just listen to the first 10-13 mins of the video. It's of Salera and Capgasp being interviewed about gear.)


    https://m.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/50phtx/we_have_been_told_that_gear_is_kinda_confusing/?ref=search_posts

    Yeah, based on that interview the gear grind doesn't exist and is WAI.

    What are you talking about no one needs cuffs. The galactic gear pack gave everyone enough cuffs, plus they already get enough from every pit raid since they're obviously the only ones that drop :lol:

    well... actually they are right - if you buy enough GW gear packs... maybe you will not have a problem with gear :smiley: LOL
    I think it is time for rest...I've got just a few days to reach 85 lvl and then...
  • ... and while I was reading your post! Seriously, this is a problem. Somebody earlier mentioned a need for 300 stun cuffs. I must say LOL, you're just getting started. My roster currently needs 1100 stun cuffs, 1050 M6 hypos, 1300 M3 sensors ... and that's just to satisfy the needs of their current gear level! Literally thousands of other pieces.

    Just in those three pieces, if we assume 20% drop rate from sims (and ignoring Challenge rewards for a moment), that requires 17,250 sims. Now, if I buy two energy refreshes per day plus bonus energy that gives me 495 energy each day (did I do that right? close enough). Assume 10 energy per sim, we can round that to 50 sims per day. It would take 345 days to fill the gear need just at my characters' current levels, and just for those three pieces! I've been playing for a year, and still this mountain of gear needs that tells me right now ANOTHER YEAR AT MINIMUM to gear everyone up at this level.

    Spend money to reduce the load? Clearly the intended solution. And I have, a few times. But it goes down the rabbit hole so fast and still the gear mountain is there. It doesn't go away. Spending alone does not fix the problem, and we're not all going to spend crazy insane whale money on this game.

    Just look at this gear mountain I'm currently working on. It just gets bigger, never smaller.gE3GVCP.png

    Earlier i said i needed i think 450 stun cuffs but that was strictly just for the few toons im working on for tank raid, i have already made many sets and equipped them. If we are talking about whole roster then yeah i need about 2000 myself. Watching that interview was really disappointing to hear them basically say there is no problem and also saying that gear packs are supposed to help. I really hope someone from CG takes a serious look at this thread and starts crunching some numbers because if every character needs ALLLLL this gear and we dont start getting easier ways to get them then people will stop playing this game. Lots of people already have left for that very reason and if things dont change then many more will leave as well.
  • @EA_Jesse
    @CG_Kozispoon

    Can one of you comment on this? Or maybe give this to someone who can
  • scuba
    12142 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    pargame wrote: »
    benacrow wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    benacrow wrote: »
    Based on this video and Reddit link, I think it's pretty clear the devs aren't aware of this, instead of purposefully hosing us with gear.

    (Just listen to the first 10-13 mins of the video. It's of Salera and Capgasp being interviewed about gear.)


    https://m.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/50phtx/we_have_been_told_that_gear_is_kinda_confusing/?ref=search_posts

    Yeah, based on that interview the gear grind doesn't exist and is WAI.

    What are you talking about no one needs cuffs. The galactic gear pack gave everyone enough cuffs, plus they already get enough from every pit raid since they're obviously the only ones that drop :lol:

    well... actually they are right - if you buy enough GW gear packs... maybe you will not have a problem with gear :smiley: LOL
    I think it is time for rest...I've got just a few days to reach 85 lvl and then...

    Of course because the gear packs were designed for things the players need! ;)
  • scuba wrote: »
    pargame wrote: »
    benacrow wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    benacrow wrote: »
    Based on this video and Reddit link, I think it's pretty clear the devs aren't aware of this, instead of purposefully hosing us with gear.

    (Just listen to the first 10-13 mins of the video. It's of Salera and Capgasp being interviewed about gear.)


    https://m.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/50phtx/we_have_been_told_that_gear_is_kinda_confusing/?ref=search_posts

    Yeah, based on that interview the gear grind doesn't exist and is WAI.

    What are you talking about no one needs cuffs. The galactic gear pack gave everyone enough cuffs, plus they already get enough from every pit raid since they're obviously the only ones that drop :lol:

    well... actually they are right - if you buy enough GW gear packs... maybe you will not have a problem with gear :smiley: LOL
    I think it is time for rest...I've got just a few days to reach 85 lvl and then...

    Of course because the gear packs were designed for things the players need! ;)

    I'm sure others have had some luck but I've bought 3 gear packs myself and got mostly things I already had hundreds of... maybe 12 x 2 of gear salvage I could use. After that waste of 1800 crystal, I'm way too gunshy to buy one again.
  • scuba
    12142 posts Member
    BrtStlnd wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    pargame wrote: »
    benacrow wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    benacrow wrote: »
    Based on this video and Reddit link, I think it's pretty clear the devs aren't aware of this, instead of purposefully hosing us with gear.

    (Just listen to the first 10-13 mins of the video. It's of Salera and Capgasp being interviewed about gear.)


    https://m.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/50phtx/we_have_been_told_that_gear_is_kinda_confusing/?ref=search_posts

    Yeah, based on that interview the gear grind doesn't exist and is WAI.

    What are you talking about no one needs cuffs. The galactic gear pack gave everyone enough cuffs, plus they already get enough from every pit raid since they're obviously the only ones that drop :lol:

    well... actually they are right - if you buy enough GW gear packs... maybe you will not have a problem with gear :smiley: LOL
    I think it is time for rest...I've got just a few days to reach 85 lvl and then...

    Of course because the gear packs were designed for things the players need! ;)

    I'm sure others have had some luck but I've bought 3 gear packs myself and got mostly things I already had hundreds of... maybe 12 x 2 of gear salvage I could use. After that waste of 1800 crystal, I'm way too gunshy to buy one again.

    That is the norm. I was jokingly quoting the interview about the Galactic Gear packs.
  • +100000000000000 great post OP
  • ... and while I was reading your post! Seriously, this is a problem. Somebody earlier mentioned a need for 300 stun cuffs. I must say LOL, you're just getting started. My roster currently needs 1100 stun cuffs, 1050 M6 hypos, 1300 M3 sensors ... and that's just to satisfy the needs of their current gear level! Literally thousands of other pieces.

    Just in those three pieces, if we assume 20% drop rate from sims (and ignoring Challenge rewards for a moment), that requires 17,250 sims. Now, if I buy two energy refreshes per day plus bonus energy that gives me 495 energy each day (did I do that right? close enough). Assume 10 energy per sim, we can round that to 50 sims per day. It would take 345 days to fill the gear need just at my characters' current levels, and just for those three pieces! I've been playing for a year, and still this mountain of gear needs that tells me right now ANOTHER YEAR AT MINIMUM to gear everyone up at this level.

    Spend money to reduce the load? Clearly the intended solution. And I have, a few times. But it goes down the rabbit hole so fast and still the gear mountain is there. It doesn't go away. Spending alone does not fix the problem, and we're not all going to spend crazy insane whale money on this game.

    Just look at this gear mountain I'm currently working on. It just gets bigger, never smaller.gE3GVCP.png

    Man I feel like I should just quit now
  • Snake2
    1375 posts Member
    Great post. I do agree that the items you mentioned are a problem (mk3 projectors, mk4 keypads, mk3 blue agi pistons).

    I also think mk3 arrays, mk6 syringes, mk5 detonators, stun cuffs, and mk5 stun guns are bigger problems.

    The challenge gear rewards don't come close to giving you enough. Shore T alone needs 300 mk3 arrays to go from g8 to g11. That's 7 weeks of challenge rewards just for 1 character if you don't farm it separately.
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