When I think about it, it's a beat for beat repackaging of A New Hope except that this time the main character is a Mary Sue.
AND it doesn't even tell a complete story. It just cuts off at the end. If this were just a regular movie, we would be ****. But it's Star Wars. So we like it anyway.
Thing is, Disney knows we're all gonna see the next one! You shouldn't leave almost all of your major plot lines unsolved to force us to watch the next movie when you know we are gonna pay to see it anyway! It's lazy story writing!
The only reason I really liked the movie is because it's a continuation of a story and a franchise that I already know that I love.
If you showed that movie to someone who had never seen a SW film, would they think it was so great?
Sure it had some good acting and awesome effects but was the story complete and were the characters compelling?
Think:
If you hadn't seen Han shooting first and taking names in the OT, would you really care that much when he dies?
If you didn't know that Luke blew up the first DS or redeemed a hardened Sith Lord in the OT wouldn't you be confused about why everyone is looking for him?
Why should you care about Rey when she never overcomes any difficulties and instead is gifted every ability she needs out of nowhere as the plot requires it?
Do you laugh at Han saying "That's not how the force works!" If you haven't seen the other movies to know how it does work?
I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the movie, but it was well received because it was based on a proven formula (ANH) and teased you with nostalgia as it went on, oh and it's SW. I will be tremendously disappointed if The Last Jedi doesn't improve.
Which, to improve on TFA, needs these 3 things:
1. Rey needs to actually have meaningful character development instead of just dropping new force powers like Westbrook drops Triple-Doubles.
2. It needs to tell a complete story. Don't just cut the movie at a random point at the end so I have no feelings of resolution.
3. It CANNOT use nostalgia as a key selling point. That will only work once. After the first time it's just tired tropes and people will know that Disney has no interest in original storytelling but only in pumping out sequels for the money.
It is part 7 not part 1, if you've never seen star wars you shouldn't watch this one
When I think about it, it's a beat for beat repackaging of A New Hope except that this time the main character is a Mary Sue.
AND it doesn't even tell a complete story. It just cuts off at the end. If this were just a regular movie, we would be ****. But it's Star Wars. So we like it anyway.
Thing is, Disney knows we're all gonna see the next one! You shouldn't leave almost all of your major plot lines unsolved to force us to watch the next movie when you know we are gonna pay to see it anyway! It's lazy story writing!
The only reason I really liked the movie is because it's a continuation of a story and a franchise that I already know that I love.
If you showed that movie to someone who had never seen a SW film, would they think it was so great?
Sure it had some good acting and awesome effects but was the story complete and were the characters compelling?
Think:
If you hadn't seen Han shooting first and taking names in the OT, would you really care that much when he dies?
If you didn't know that Luke blew up the first DS or redeemed a hardened Sith Lord in the OT wouldn't you be confused about why everyone is looking for him?
Why should you care about Rey when she never overcomes any difficulties and instead is gifted every ability she needs out of nowhere as the plot requires it?
Do you laugh at Han saying "That's not how the force works!" If you haven't seen the other movies to know how it does work?
I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the movie, but it was well received because it was based on a proven formula (ANH) and teased you with nostalgia as it went on, oh and it's SW. I will be tremendously disappointed if The Last Jedi doesn't improve.
Which, to improve on TFA, needs these 3 things:
1. Rey needs to actually have meaningful character development instead of just dropping new force powers like Westbrook drops Triple-Doubles.
2. It needs to tell a complete story. Don't just cut the movie at a random point at the end so I have no feelings of resolution.
3. It CANNOT use nostalgia as a key selling point. That will only work once. After the first time it's just tired tropes and people will know that Disney has no interest in original storytelling but only in pumping out sequels for the money.
It is part 7 not part 1, if you've never seen star wars you shouldn't watch this one
I disagree. TFA is clearly a soft reboot thats meant to bring star wars to “a new generation” as lucasfilm is fond of saying, and I think it does that well. I loved TFA because despite some of the flaws in the script, it felt like a star wars movie, and there hasn’t been movie in the last 30 years thats succeeded in doing that.
I loved the scene in rogue one with darth Vader hall of death. We never really got to see the terror of what Vader could do besides force choking insubordinate officers. That scene was well done and gave me goosebumps, as it made Vader great again.
When I think about it, it's a beat for beat repackaging of A New Hope except that this time the main character is a Mary Sue.
AND it doesn't even tell a complete story. It just cuts off at the end. If this were just a regular movie, we would be ****. But it's Star Wars. So we like it anyway.
Thing is, Disney knows we're all gonna see the next one! You shouldn't leave almost all of your major plot lines unsolved to force us to watch the next movie when you know we are gonna pay to see it anyway! It's lazy story writing!
The only reason I really liked the movie is because it's a continuation of a story and a franchise that I already know that I love.
If you showed that movie to someone who had never seen a SW film, would they think it was so great?
Sure it had some good acting and awesome effects but was the story complete and were the characters compelling?
Think:
If you hadn't seen Han shooting first and taking names in the OT, would you really care that much when he dies?
If you didn't know that Luke blew up the first DS or redeemed a hardened Sith Lord in the OT wouldn't you be confused about why everyone is looking for him?
Why should you care about Rey when she never overcomes any difficulties and instead is gifted every ability she needs out of nowhere as the plot requires it?
Do you laugh at Han saying "That's not how the force works!" If you haven't seen the other movies to know how it does work?
I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the movie, but it was well received because it was based on a proven formula (ANH) and teased you with nostalgia as it went on, oh and it's SW. I will be tremendously disappointed if The Last Jedi doesn't improve.
Which, to improve on TFA, needs these 3 things:
1. Rey needs to actually have meaningful character development instead of just dropping new force powers like Westbrook drops Triple-Doubles.
2. It needs to tell a complete story. Don't just cut the movie at a random point at the end so I have no feelings of resolution.
3. It CANNOT use nostalgia as a key selling point. That will only work once. After the first time it's just tired tropes and people will know that Disney has no interest in original storytelling but only in pumping out sequels for the money.
It is part 7 not part 1, if you've never seen star wars you shouldn't watch this one
I disagree. TFA is clearly a soft reboot thats meant to bring star wars to “a new generation” as lucasfilm is fond of saying, and I think it does that well. I loved TFA because despite some of the flaws in the script, it felt like a star wars movie, and there hasn’t been movie in the last 30 years thats succeeded in doing that.
That was the most important reason why I liked TFA. The prequels were star wars movies, but they had no magic and didn't have the right feel somehow (I feel like Lucas got lost in what he could do with an almost unlimited budget).
Movies need magic. Like a lot of things, without magic it's really, really boring.
When I think about it, it's a beat for beat repackaging of A New Hope except that this time the main character is a Mary Sue.
AND it doesn't even tell a complete story. It just cuts off at the end. If this were just a regular movie, we would be ****. But it's Star Wars. So we like it anyway.
Thing is, Disney knows we're all gonna see the next one! You shouldn't leave almost all of your major plot lines unsolved to force us to watch the next movie when you know we are gonna pay to see it anyway! It's lazy story writing!
The only reason I really liked the movie is because it's a continuation of a story and a franchise that I already know that I love.
If you showed that movie to someone who had never seen a SW film, would they think it was so great?
Sure it had some good acting and awesome effects but was the story complete and were the characters compelling?
Think:
If you hadn't seen Han shooting first and taking names in the OT, would you really care that much when he dies?
If you didn't know that Luke blew up the first DS or redeemed a hardened Sith Lord in the OT wouldn't you be confused about why everyone is looking for him?
Why should you care about Rey when she never overcomes any difficulties and instead is gifted every ability she needs out of nowhere as the plot requires it?
Do you laugh at Han saying "That's not how the force works!" If you haven't seen the other movies to know how it does work?
I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the movie, but it was well received because it was based on a proven formula (ANH) and teased you with nostalgia as it went on, oh and it's SW. I will be tremendously disappointed if The Last Jedi doesn't improve.
Which, to improve on TFA, needs these 3 things:
1. Rey needs to actually have meaningful character development instead of just dropping new force powers like Westbrook drops Triple-Doubles.
2. It needs to tell a complete story. Don't just cut the movie at a random point at the end so I have no feelings of resolution.
3. It CANNOT use nostalgia as a key selling point. That will only work once. After the first time it's just tired tropes and people will know that Disney has no interest in original storytelling but only in pumping out sequels for the money.
It is part 7 not part 1, if you've never seen star wars you shouldn't watch this one
I disagree. TFA is clearly a soft reboot thats meant to bring star wars to “a new generation” as lucasfilm is fond of saying, and I think it does that well. I loved TFA because despite some of the flaws in the script, it felt like a star wars movie, and there hasn’t been movie in the last 30 years thats succeeded in doing that.
That was the most important reason why I liked TFA. The prequels were star wars movies, but they had no magic and didn't have the right feel somehow (I feel like Lucas got lost in what he could do with an almost unlimited budget).
Movies need magic. Like a lot of things, without magic it's really, really boring.
Characters. The “magic” you’re talking about comes from likable characters. In the OT and TFA, we’re invested in the action not just because it’s well done, but because we connect with the characters and want them to succeed.
That fact (opinion) that TFA is bad but better than Rebels is sad.
Rebels has people who never finished training best Vader.
Who bested Vader? I hope you do not mean Ahsoka. She sucker punched Vader with her sabers damaging his helmet.
They then moved towards each other to begin a climatic duel - which we did not see.
Vader remained triumphant and Ahsoka was seen limping away licking her wounds and so far has not been seen again.
As for Vader v. Kanan and Ezra - that is 2 Jedi on 1. Not to mention they could not best Vader and he more toyed with them than anything else. Ahsoka was perhaps the only challenge Vader faced and she knew she could prevent their deaths so cut them out of the fight, saving them, and risking her own life.
I count it as bested if Vader didn’t kill Ezra and Kanan because they should’ve been crushed.
That fact (opinion) that TFA is bad but better than Rebels is sad.
Rebels has people who never finished training best Vader.
Are you going to call ANH a bad movie because an old man could hold his own against vader? No, because that scene services the story. Is Rebels a great show? Not particularly, but like anything it deserves to be judged based on its own, selfcontained characteristics, not just on your preconceived notions based on knowledge of a sprawling, inconsistent universe.
At least kenobi was good at fighting, not sure about Ezra
Bested?
Ok - so if 2 UFC fighters are in the ring, opponent 1 is kicking opponent 2's but, then opponent 2 runs away - opponent 2 then wins the fight because opponent 1 should have crushed him?
Your logic makes 0 sense.
Kanan and Ezra opted out of the fight and ran away for their lives because Vader would have crushed them. They did not win any fight - they ran like cowards.
Keep in mind, most other movie franchises start out as 1 movie that could possibly become a franchise. The directors work them as standalone films because they know that plans change an sometimes sequels just dont get greenlit. Thats just not the case with Star Wars.
Keep in mind, most other movie franchises start out as 1 movie that could possibly become a franchise. The directors work them as standalone films because they know that plans change an sometimes sequels just dont get greenlit. Thats just not the case with Star Wars.
When I think about it, it's a beat for beat repackaging of A New Hope except that this time the main character is a Mary Sue.
AND it doesn't even tell a complete story. It just cuts off at the end. If this were just a regular movie, we would be ****. But it's Star Wars. So we like it anyway.
Thing is, Disney knows we're all gonna see the next one! You shouldn't leave almost all of your major plot lines unsolved to force us to watch the next movie when you know we are gonna pay to see it anyway! It's lazy story writing!
The only reason I really liked the movie is because it's a continuation of a story and a franchise that I already know that I love.
If you showed that movie to someone who had never seen a SW film, would they think it was so great?
Sure it had some good acting and awesome effects but was the story complete and were the characters compelling?
Think:
If you hadn't seen Han shooting first and taking names in the OT, would you really care that much when he dies?
If you didn't know that Luke blew up the first DS or redeemed a hardened Sith Lord in the OT wouldn't you be confused about why everyone is looking for him?
Why should you care about Rey when she never overcomes any difficulties and instead is gifted every ability she needs out of nowhere as the plot requires it?
Do you laugh at Han saying "That's not how the force works!" If you haven't seen the other movies to know how it does work?
I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the movie, but it was well received because it was based on a proven formula (ANH) and teased you with nostalgia as it went on, oh and it's SW. I will be tremendously disappointed if The Last Jedi doesn't improve.
Which, to improve on TFA, needs these 3 things:
1. Rey needs to actually have meaningful character development instead of just dropping new force powers like Westbrook drops Triple-Doubles.
2. It needs to tell a complete story. Don't just cut the movie at a random point at the end so I have no feelings of resolution.
3. It CANNOT use nostalgia as a key selling point. That will only work once. After the first time it's just tired tropes and people will know that Disney has no interest in original storytelling but only in pumping out sequels for the money.
Well I think this guy is funny and sort off agree with him. Upon talking to some real people I found we all have similar things to say. It's a worse movie then the prequels in my view, but that is subjective and it can't be helped
Still like the movie and love the universe, but objectively (logic/plotholes/characters) is a bad movie - a poor rebot of the original... \
We do all identify with the main character tho - good at every single thing, awesome fighters, excellent pilots, amazing technicians yet stuck and poor in a dead desert waiting for our parents but willing to go look for them if the slightest opportunity arises
When I think about it, it's a beat for beat repackaging of A New Hope except ...
Actually this is the only part I strongly disagree with. My theory is that it's meant to be a compilation of all three of the OT movies.
Luke and Rey, both orphans from desert planets that are caught up into larger conflicts because each finds a droid carrying crucial and top secret information needed to stop an evil organization. Each is unaware of his/her true heritage, though that heritage will become vitally important in the subsequent film. Each one meets a mentor (Old Ben/Han respectively) who sacrifices himself in the final act for the greater good and to help the hero escape. Oh and each one must duel the arch-villain (Vader in the trench run, Kylo outside SK base) in the midst of their organizations last ditch effort to destroy the spherical super weapon created by an evil space Third Reich . That about cover the major plot points of ANH and TFA?
Remind me how this isn't a beat for beat retelling? There is even a rescue from the superweapon, though this time the parallel is Leia and Rey.
Don't Forget about...
Unkar Plutt = Jawas
Teedo = Tuskan raiders
Maz's Castle = Cantina
Sabine Natal = Greedo
The rebel bases that the pilots fly off from (look similar)
A woman captured and interrogated by a dark side user
An escape by said woman from the cell
Poe Dameron = Wedge Antilles
A political adviser (Hux = Tarkin)
The destruction of a planet (or planets) using a laser weapon
A hero that attempts to flee the action (Han not wanting to rescue Leia and Finn wanting to flee Takodana)
Jakku = Tatooine
Escape on Millenium Falcon = Escape on Millenium Falcon
Rey = Luke Skywalker
A character that uses the force to defeat the antagonists (Luke shooting the missile and Rey pulling the lightsaber towards her)
An antagonist who is wounded or beaten, but not defeated
Han Solo = Old Ben Kenobi
Fleeing of Rey's Parents/ Abandonment = Luke not knowing his father
Important Holograms (Leia = Map to Luke)
The use of mind control (these are not the droids you are looking for = you will leave this cell with the door open)
Ok, you have to admit some of those are stretches. Unkar Plutt as jawas? Poe as Wedge? Teedo (assuming thats the creature that tries to steal bb8) as tusken raiders? The antagonist is beaten? And “a character uses the force to defeat the antagonist”? This is star wars. People are going to use the force. And who is Sabine Natal?
He meant Bazine Netal.
Yeah, TFA is a soft reboot of ANH... For better or for worse
I still dont know who or what bazine netal is
The weird looking chick from TFA who informed the First Order about BB-8:
Well yeah but if you watch it a 4th time you will ask yourself who puts so much make up on to go to a bar? and a low end bar at that...and she's a spy...so yeah IDK it feels wrong to me...every single detail in the movie just seems off somehow...like it was just added on top of something... like poe shots singlehandedly 14 ties in a spawn of 10 seconds then kills like 4 stortropers on land with pinpoint accuracy, it was an awesome scen, but how is the resistance loosing with such odds? I mean why not just send poe singlehandedly ahead of the invasion to take down the fighters.... everything is shiny but lacks substance...
That fact (opinion) that TFA is bad but better than Rebels is sad.
Rebels has people who never finished training best Vader.
Who bested Vader? I hope you do not mean Ahsoka. She sucker punched Vader with her sabers damaging his helmet.
They then moved towards each other to begin a climatic duel - which we did not see.
Vader remained triumphant and Ahsoka was seen limping away licking her wounds and so far has not been seen again.
As for Vader v. Kanan and Ezra - that is 2 Jedi on 1. Not to mention they could not best Vader and he more toyed with them than anything else. Ahsoka was perhaps the only challenge Vader faced and she knew she could prevent their deaths so cut them out of the fight, saving them, and risking her own life.
I count it as bested if Vader didn’t kill Ezra and Kanan because they should’ve been crushed.
That fact (opinion) that TFA is bad but better than Rebels is sad.
Rebels has people who never finished training best Vader.
Are you going to call ANH a bad movie because an old man could hold his own against vader? No, because that scene services the story. Is Rebels a great show? Not particularly, but like anything it deserves to be judged based on its own, selfcontained characteristics, not just on your preconceived notions based on knowledge of a sprawling, inconsistent universe.
At least kenobi was good at fighting, not sure about Ezra
Bested?
Ok - so if 2 UFC fighters are in the ring, opponent 1 is kicking opponent 2's but, then opponent 2 runs away - opponent 2 then wins the fight because opponent 1 should have crushed him?
Your logic makes 0 sense.
Kanan and Ezra opted out of the fight and ran away for their lives because Vader would have crushed them. They did not win any fight - they ran like cowards.
Your logic and analogy makes 0 sense, because no one claimed Kanan and/or Ezra bested Vader. Kanan was blinded and spent, Ezra was clearly outmatched, and they had an expiration date of about 2 minutes after Vader showed up.
Ahsoka bested Vader though, not really sure how that point is debatable...
That fact (opinion) that TFA is bad but better than Rebels is sad.
Rebels has people who never finished training best Vader.
Who bested Vader? I hope you do not mean Ahsoka. She sucker punched Vader with her sabers damaging his helmet.
They then moved towards each other to begin a climatic duel - which we did not see.
Vader remained triumphant and Ahsoka was seen limping away licking her wounds and so far has not been seen again.
As for Vader v. Kanan and Ezra - that is 2 Jedi on 1. Not to mention they could not best Vader and he more toyed with them than anything else. Ahsoka was perhaps the only challenge Vader faced and she knew she could prevent their deaths so cut them out of the fight, saving them, and risking her own life.
I count it as bested if Vader didn’t kill Ezra and Kanan because they should’ve been crushed.
That fact (opinion) that TFA is bad but better than Rebels is sad.
Rebels has people who never finished training best Vader.
Are you going to call ANH a bad movie because an old man could hold his own against vader? No, because that scene services the story. Is Rebels a great show? Not particularly, but like anything it deserves to be judged based on its own, selfcontained characteristics, not just on your preconceived notions based on knowledge of a sprawling, inconsistent universe.
At least kenobi was good at fighting, not sure about Ezra
Bested?
Ok - so if 2 UFC fighters are in the ring, opponent 1 is kicking opponent 2's but, then opponent 2 runs away - opponent 2 then wins the fight because opponent 1 should have crushed him?
Your logic makes 0 sense.
Kanan and Ezra opted out of the fight and ran away for their lives because Vader would have crushed them. They did not win any fight - they ran like cowards.
Your logic and analogy makes 0 sense, because no one claimed Kanan and/or Ezra bested Vader. Kanan was blinded and spent, Ezra was clearly outmatched, and they had an expiration date of about 2 minutes after Vader showed up.
Ahsoka bested Vader though, not really sure how that point is debatable...
As far as we know, Vader killed Ahsoka in the sith temple. She put up a good fight, but she didn't best him.
When I think about it, it's a beat for beat repackaging of A New Hope except that this time the main character is a Mary Sue.
AND it doesn't even tell a complete story. It just cuts off at the end. If this were just a regular movie, we would be ****. But it's Star Wars. So we like it anyway.
Thing is, Disney knows we're all gonna see the next one! You shouldn't leave almost all of your major plot lines unsolved to force us to watch the next movie when you know we are gonna pay to see it anyway! It's lazy story writing!
The only reason I really liked the movie is because it's a continuation of a story and a franchise that I already know that I love.
If you showed that movie to someone who had never seen a SW film, would they think it was so great?
Sure it had some good acting and awesome effects but was the story complete and were the characters compelling?
Think:
If you hadn't seen Han shooting first and taking names in the OT, would you really care that much when he dies?
If you didn't know that Luke blew up the first DS or redeemed a hardened Sith Lord in the OT wouldn't you be confused about why everyone is looking for him?
Why should you care about Rey when she never overcomes any difficulties and instead is gifted every ability she needs out of nowhere as the plot requires it?
Do you laugh at Han saying "That's not how the force works!" If you haven't seen the other movies to know how it does work?
I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the movie, but it was well received because it was based on a proven formula (ANH) and teased you with nostalgia as it went on, oh and it's SW. I will be tremendously disappointed if The Last Jedi doesn't improve.
Which, to improve on TFA, needs these 3 things:
1. Rey needs to actually have meaningful character development instead of just dropping new force powers like Westbrook drops Triple-Doubles.
2. It needs to tell a complete story. Don't just cut the movie at a random point at the end so I have no feelings of resolution.
3. It CANNOT use nostalgia as a key selling point. That will only work once. After the first time it's just tired tropes and people will know that Disney has no interest in original storytelling but only in pumping out sequels for the money.
JJ Can not write an original movie. He has to fall back on what was his love growing up. Discount Tatooine, discount Jawas that weren’t Jawas, what the kittens are those chopper teeth in those hoods, discount Death Star, super laser that travels through hyperspace and can be seen throughout the galaxy by just looking up into the sky, hyperspace that’s really warp drive (JJ has no concept of time or distance), Yoda is now a girl with a crush on Chewie, half baked plot, under developed characters, all his friends and family guest star, characters that remind you of Lost and what’s that other wreck of a show, wanting others to flush out your main bad guy in other episodes, everyone in the galaxy is related to Luke and Leia, just wait and see. Oh, and lens flares
That fact (opinion) that TFA is bad but better than Rebels is sad.
Rebels has people who never finished training best Vader.
Who bested Vader? I hope you do not mean Ahsoka. She sucker punched Vader with her sabers damaging his helmet.
They then moved towards each other to begin a climatic duel - which we did not see.
Vader remained triumphant and Ahsoka was seen limping away licking her wounds and so far has not been seen again.
As for Vader v. Kanan and Ezra - that is 2 Jedi on 1. Not to mention they could not best Vader and he more toyed with them than anything else. Ahsoka was perhaps the only challenge Vader faced and she knew she could prevent their deaths so cut them out of the fight, saving them, and risking her own life.
I count it as bested if Vader didn’t kill Ezra and Kanan because they should’ve been crushed.
That fact (opinion) that TFA is bad but better than Rebels is sad.
Rebels has people who never finished training best Vader.
Are you going to call ANH a bad movie because an old man could hold his own against vader? No, because that scene services the story. Is Rebels a great show? Not particularly, but like anything it deserves to be judged based on its own, selfcontained characteristics, not just on your preconceived notions based on knowledge of a sprawling, inconsistent universe.
At least kenobi was good at fighting, not sure about Ezra
Bested?
Ok - so if 2 UFC fighters are in the ring, opponent 1 is kicking opponent 2's but, then opponent 2 runs away - opponent 2 then wins the fight because opponent 1 should have crushed him?
Your logic makes 0 sense.
Kanan and Ezra opted out of the fight and ran away for their lives because Vader would have crushed them. They did not win any fight - they ran like cowards.
Your logic and analogy makes 0 sense, because no one claimed Kanan and/or Ezra bested Vader. Kanan was blinded and spent, Ezra was clearly outmatched, and they had an expiration date of about 2 minutes after Vader showed up.
Ahsoka bested Vader though, not really sure how that point is debatable...
As far as we know, Vader killed Ahsoka in the sith temple. She put up a good fight, but she didn't best him.
At the end of the episode, ahsoka can be seen walking further into the temple. Dave Filoni also wore a shirt at the star wars con that said “ahsoka lives!”
That fact (opinion) that TFA is bad but better than Rebels is sad.
Rebels has people who never finished training best Vader.
Who bested Vader? I hope you do not mean Ahsoka. She sucker punched Vader with her sabers damaging his helmet.
They then moved towards each other to begin a climatic duel - which we did not see.
Vader remained triumphant and Ahsoka was seen limping away licking her wounds and so far has not been seen again.
As for Vader v. Kanan and Ezra - that is 2 Jedi on 1. Not to mention they could not best Vader and he more toyed with them than anything else. Ahsoka was perhaps the only challenge Vader faced and she knew she could prevent their deaths so cut them out of the fight, saving them, and risking her own life.
I count it as bested if Vader didn’t kill Ezra and Kanan because they should’ve been crushed.
That fact (opinion) that TFA is bad but better than Rebels is sad.
Rebels has people who never finished training best Vader.
Are you going to call ANH a bad movie because an old man could hold his own against vader? No, because that scene services the story. Is Rebels a great show? Not particularly, but like anything it deserves to be judged based on its own, selfcontained characteristics, not just on your preconceived notions based on knowledge of a sprawling, inconsistent universe.
At least kenobi was good at fighting, not sure about Ezra
Bested?
Ok - so if 2 UFC fighters are in the ring, opponent 1 is kicking opponent 2's but, then opponent 2 runs away - opponent 2 then wins the fight because opponent 1 should have crushed him?
Your logic makes 0 sense.
Kanan and Ezra opted out of the fight and ran away for their lives because Vader would have crushed them. They did not win any fight - they ran like cowards.
Your logic and analogy makes 0 sense, because no one claimed Kanan and/or Ezra bested Vader. Kanan was blinded and spent, Ezra was clearly outmatched, and they had an expiration date of about 2 minutes after Vader showed up.
Ahsoka bested Vader though, not really sure how that point is debatable...
As far as we know, Vader killed Ahsoka in the sith temple. She put up a good fight, but she didn't best him.
As DatBoi said, we saw her walking back into the temple, and director and cast has strongly hinted that she will make an appearance in the final season.
I'm gonna lead with Vader is easily on my 'Top 3 villains of all time' list, I'm not some Snips fan that is crazy biased. That said, Ahsoka beat the brakes off Vader, the only thing that prevented her from killing him was her love and misplaced loyalty for Anakinn. She even says "I can't kill you" to which he replies "Then you will die" after she cut off the front half of his mask. If she wanted Vader dead they wouldn't be having that conversation, he'd already be decapitated. She didn't miss on an attack, she intentionally cut off the front of his mask to hoping to confirm that she was wrong, she had to be wrong; despite her knowing it was true, that Anakin couldn't be Vader.
But this is somewhat irrelevant, regardless of opinions on the fight, Ahsoka bested Vader because she accomplished her goals and he did not. Her objective wasn't to kill Vader, it was to 'prevent Vader' from taking the Sith Holocron, with a side quest of 'keep Ezra & Kanan alive, and get them out of there.' Vader's goal was to get that Holocron, with a sprinkling of kill any/all LS force users.
She succeeded in her goals, and prevented Vader from accomplishing any of his; that's pretty clear cut to me.
When I think about it, it's a beat for beat repackaging of A New Hope except that this time the main character is a Mary Sue.
AND it doesn't even tell a complete story. It just cuts off at the end. If this were just a regular movie, we would be ****. But it's Star Wars. So we like it anyway.
Thing is, Disney knows we're all gonna see the next one! You shouldn't leave almost all of your major plot lines unsolved to force us to watch the next movie when you know we are gonna pay to see it anyway! It's lazy story writing!
The only reason I really liked the movie is because it's a continuation of a story and a franchise that I already know that I love.
If you showed that movie to someone who had never seen a SW film, would they think it was so great?
Sure it had some good acting and awesome effects but was the story complete and were the characters compelling?
Think:
If you hadn't seen Han shooting first and taking names in the OT, would you really care that much when he dies?
If you didn't know that Luke blew up the first DS or redeemed a hardened Sith Lord in the OT wouldn't you be confused about why everyone is looking for him?
Why should you care about Rey when she never overcomes any difficulties and instead is gifted every ability she needs out of nowhere as the plot requires it?
Do you laugh at Han saying "That's not how the force works!" If you haven't seen the other movies to know how it does work?
I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the movie, but it was well received because it was based on a proven formula (ANH) and teased you with nostalgia as it went on, oh and it's SW. I will be tremendously disappointed if The Last Jedi doesn't improve.
Which, to improve on TFA, needs these 3 things:
1. Rey needs to actually have meaningful character development instead of just dropping new force powers like Westbrook drops Triple-Doubles.
2. It needs to tell a complete story. Don't just cut the movie at a random point at the end so I have no feelings of resolution.
3. It CANNOT use nostalgia as a key selling point. That will only work once. After the first time it's just tired tropes and people will know that Disney has no interest in original storytelling but only in pumping out sequels for the money.
JJ Can not write an original movie. He has to fall back on what was his love growing up. Discount Tatooine, discount Jawas that weren’t Jawas, what the kittens are those chopper teeth in those hoods, discount Death Star, super laser that travels through hyperspace and can be seen throughout the galaxy by just looking up into the sky, hyperspace that’s really warp drive (JJ has no concept of time or distance), Yoda is now a girl with a crush on Chewie, half baked plot, under developed characters, all his friends and family guest star, characters that remind you of Lost and what’s that other wreck of a show, wanting others to flush out your main bad guy in other episodes, everyone in the galaxy is related to Luke and Leia, just wait and see. Oh, and lens flares
Kathleen Kennedy didn't want an original movie. She wanted a re-hash of the original trilogy. She wants to be safe. That's why so many directors have been leaving Star Wars movies, and why JJ is back for IX.
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
When I think about it, it's a beat for beat repackaging of A New Hope except that this time the main character is a Mary Sue.
AND it doesn't even tell a complete story. It just cuts off at the end. If this were just a regular movie, we would be ****. But it's Star Wars. So we like it anyway.
Thing is, Disney knows we're all gonna see the next one! You shouldn't leave almost all of your major plot lines unsolved to force us to watch the next movie when you know we are gonna pay to see it anyway! It's lazy story writing!
The only reason I really liked the movie is because it's a continuation of a story and a franchise that I already know that I love.
If you showed that movie to someone who had never seen a SW film, would they think it was so great?
Sure it had some good acting and awesome effects but was the story complete and were the characters compelling?
Think:
If you hadn't seen Han shooting first and taking names in the OT, would you really care that much when he dies?
If you didn't know that Luke blew up the first DS or redeemed a hardened Sith Lord in the OT wouldn't you be confused about why everyone is looking for him?
Why should you care about Rey when she never overcomes any difficulties and instead is gifted every ability she needs out of nowhere as the plot requires it?
Do you laugh at Han saying "That's not how the force works!" If you haven't seen the other movies to know how it does work?
I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the movie, but it was well received because it was based on a proven formula (ANH) and teased you with nostalgia as it went on, oh and it's SW. I will be tremendously disappointed if The Last Jedi doesn't improve.
Which, to improve on TFA, needs these 3 things:
1. Rey needs to actually have meaningful character development instead of just dropping new force powers like Westbrook drops Triple-Doubles.
2. It needs to tell a complete story. Don't just cut the movie at a random point at the end so I have no feelings of resolution.
3. It CANNOT use nostalgia as a key selling point. That will only work once. After the first time it's just tired tropes and people will know that Disney has no interest in original storytelling but only in pumping out sequels for the money.
JJ Can not write an original movie. He has to fall back on what was his love growing up. Discount Tatooine, discount Jawas that weren’t Jawas, what the kittens are those chopper teeth in those hoods, discount Death Star, super laser that travels through hyperspace and can be seen throughout the galaxy by just looking up into the sky, hyperspace that’s really warp drive (JJ has no concept of time or distance), Yoda is now a girl with a crush on Chewie, half baked plot, under developed characters, all his friends and family guest star, characters that remind you of Lost and what’s that other wreck of a show, wanting others to flush out your main bad guy in other episodes, everyone in the galaxy is related to Luke and Leia, just wait and see. Oh, and lens flares
Kathleen Kennedy didn't want an original movie. She wanted a re-hash of the original trilogy. She wants to be safe. That's why so many directors have been leaving Star Wars movies, and why JJ is back for IX.
I love Disney and hate Disney for bringing Star Wars back. For that reason.
I love Disney for laying out a boatload of money to keep the franchise alive and able to be discovered by a new generation. We've gotten 2 solid movies, a really good show, two console games, KotR rerelease, and lest we forget GoH.
I love Disney for laying out a boatload of money to keep the franchise alive and able to be discovered by a new generation. We've gotten 2 solid movies, a really good show, two console games, KotR rerelease, and lest we forget GoH.
I hate Disney for cancelling a GREAT show in Clone Wars. But other than that I'm generally happy with what we've gotten, and will continue to get.
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
I stopped reading the second the OP said "Mary Sue" the first time.
Present an argument that Rey isn't a Mary Sue then.
I like how you ignored everything I replied to you on page freaking 1 about how in Star Wars terms she isn't a Mary Sue, and then cherry pick other posts to try to prove your point. Anakin, Luke, Starkiller, Reven, Jacen, Jaina, all did things as impressive or more so than Rey before training (or in the case of Revan: after a mindwipe, before re-training). If you have a problem with Rey you have a problem with Star Wars.
She succeeded in her goals, and prevented Vader from accomplishing any of his; that's pretty clear cut to me.
I like your analysis here, goals are key, but one thing I would add: people aren't taking into account Vader's character or motivations, or the recurring themes in Star Wars. Yeah, he didn't kill Ezra and he didn't get the holocron, but that's because in those early moments he was arrogant. This was a child standing in front of him. He could have thrown his saber, killed the boy, and the collected the holocron from his corpse. But that isn't Vader's style. He will impose his will and show just how much more powerful he is. That neither the boy or his master can stand against him. And that arrogance costs him, just as it earlier cost the council and Windu, and would later cost Tarkin and the Emperor.
And you point out that Ahsoka didn't kill him early because of who she thought he might be, but it's just as likely that she had such easy pickings in the early fight because he already knew who she was. When he calls her name it isn't in anger, but rather there is still positive emotion behind it. He later regains his resolve to fight her, but it's likely in the early moments he was still Anakin and not Vader, so to speak.
That fact (opinion) that TFA is bad but better than Rebels is sad.
Rebels has people who never finished training best Vader.
Who bested Vader? I hope you do not mean Ahsoka. She sucker punched Vader with her sabers damaging his helmet.
They then moved towards each other to begin a climatic duel - which we did not see.
Vader remained triumphant and Ahsoka was seen limping away licking her wounds and so far has not been seen again.
As for Vader v. Kanan and Ezra - that is 2 Jedi on 1. Not to mention they could not best Vader and he more toyed with them than anything else. Ahsoka was perhaps the only challenge Vader faced and she knew she could prevent their deaths so cut them out of the fight, saving them, and risking her own life.
I count it as bested if Vader didn’t kill Ezra and Kanan because they should’ve been crushed.
That fact (opinion) that TFA is bad but better than Rebels is sad.
Rebels has people who never finished training best Vader.
Are you going to call ANH a bad movie because an old man could hold his own against vader? No, because that scene services the story. Is Rebels a great show? Not particularly, but like anything it deserves to be judged based on its own, selfcontained characteristics, not just on your preconceived notions based on knowledge of a sprawling, inconsistent universe.
At least kenobi was good at fighting, not sure about Ezra
Bested?
Ok - so if 2 UFC fighters are in the ring, opponent 1 is kicking opponent 2's but, then opponent 2 runs away - opponent 2 then wins the fight because opponent 1 should have crushed him?
Your logic makes 0 sense.
Kanan and Ezra opted out of the fight and ran away for their lives because Vader would have crushed them. They did not win any fight - they ran like cowards.
Your logic and analogy makes 0 sense, because no one claimed Kanan and/or Ezra bested Vader. Kanan was blinded and spent, Ezra was clearly outmatched, and they had an expiration date of about 2 minutes after Vader showed up.
Ahsoka bested Vader though, not really sure how that point is debatable...
She too "escaped" liking her wounds. Yes Vader would have killed her, but QGJ did not "best" Darth aul in the desert either - he too ran away/escaped.
Considering we never got to see the true fight between Ahsoka and Vader we know Vader goes on to do other things - we have not yet seen Ahsoka. Yes she may make an appearance in Season 4 but we don't know anything yet.
That fact (opinion) that TFA is bad but better than Rebels is sad.
Rebels has people who never finished training best Vader.
Who bested Vader? I hope you do not mean Ahsoka. She sucker punched Vader with her sabers damaging his helmet.
They then moved towards each other to begin a climatic duel - which we did not see.
Vader remained triumphant and Ahsoka was seen limping away licking her wounds and so far has not been seen again.
As for Vader v. Kanan and Ezra - that is 2 Jedi on 1. Not to mention they could not best Vader and he more toyed with them than anything else. Ahsoka was perhaps the only challenge Vader faced and she knew she could prevent their deaths so cut them out of the fight, saving them, and risking her own life.
I count it as bested if Vader didn’t kill Ezra and Kanan because they should’ve been crushed.
That fact (opinion) that TFA is bad but better than Rebels is sad.
Rebels has people who never finished training best Vader.
Are you going to call ANH a bad movie because an old man could hold his own against vader? No, because that scene services the story. Is Rebels a great show? Not particularly, but like anything it deserves to be judged based on its own, selfcontained characteristics, not just on your preconceived notions based on knowledge of a sprawling, inconsistent universe.
At least kenobi was good at fighting, not sure about Ezra
Bested?
Ok - so if 2 UFC fighters are in the ring, opponent 1 is kicking opponent 2's but, then opponent 2 runs away - opponent 2 then wins the fight because opponent 1 should have crushed him?
Your logic makes 0 sense.
Kanan and Ezra opted out of the fight and ran away for their lives because Vader would have crushed them. They did not win any fight - they ran like cowards.
Your logic and analogy makes 0 sense, because no one claimed Kanan and/or Ezra bested Vader. Kanan was blinded and spent, Ezra was clearly outmatched, and they had an expiration date of about 2 minutes after Vader showed up.
Ahsoka bested Vader though, not really sure how that point is debatable...
I count it as bested if Vader didn’t kill Ezra and Kanan because they should’ve been crushed.
I just argued that point - so why does my argument not bear any logic to you. Shall I say it another way for you, ill try not to be too patronizing towards you.
Lets say there is a bully in school and he wants to punch you and you run away - did you win the fight in the playground or are all the other children going to tell you that you are a coward and ran away - or do you believe in your heart that you won the fight?
That fact (opinion) that TFA is bad but better than Rebels is sad.
Rebels has people who never finished training best Vader.
Who bested Vader? I hope you do not mean Ahsoka. She sucker punched Vader with her sabers damaging his helmet.
They then moved towards each other to begin a climatic duel - which we did not see.
Vader remained triumphant and Ahsoka was seen limping away licking her wounds and so far has not been seen again.
As for Vader v. Kanan and Ezra - that is 2 Jedi on 1. Not to mention they could not best Vader and he more toyed with them than anything else. Ahsoka was perhaps the only challenge Vader faced and she knew she could prevent their deaths so cut them out of the fight, saving them, and risking her own life.
I count it as bested if Vader didn’t kill Ezra and Kanan because they should’ve been crushed.
That fact (opinion) that TFA is bad but better than Rebels is sad.
Rebels has people who never finished training best Vader.
Are you going to call ANH a bad movie because an old man could hold his own against vader? No, because that scene services the story. Is Rebels a great show? Not particularly, but like anything it deserves to be judged based on its own, selfcontained characteristics, not just on your preconceived notions based on knowledge of a sprawling, inconsistent universe.
At least kenobi was good at fighting, not sure about Ezra
Bested?
Ok - so if 2 UFC fighters are in the ring, opponent 1 is kicking opponent 2's but, then opponent 2 runs away - opponent 2 then wins the fight because opponent 1 should have crushed him?
Your logic makes 0 sense.
Kanan and Ezra opted out of the fight and ran away for their lives because Vader would have crushed them. They did not win any fight - they ran like cowards.
Your logic and analogy makes 0 sense, because no one claimed Kanan and/or Ezra bested Vader. Kanan was blinded and spent, Ezra was clearly outmatched, and they had an expiration date of about 2 minutes after Vader showed up.
Ahsoka bested Vader though, not really sure how that point is debatable...
She too "escaped" liking her wounds. Yes Vader would have killed her, but QGJ did not "best" Darth aul in the desert either - he too ran away/escaped.
Considering we never got to see the true fight between Ahsoka and Vader we know Vader goes on to do other things - we have not yet seen Ahsoka. Yes she may make an appearance in Season 4 but we don't know anything yet.
Licking her wounds? Did we watch the same duel? How are you so sure Vader would have won?
A "true fight" isn't gonna favor Vader. He was trying to kill her, he didn't. She was dancing circles around him while actively refusing to kill him; and still got a bumbling Ezra, a blind Kanan and the Holocron away to safety.
I just argued that point - so why does my argument not bear any logic to you. Shall I say it another way for you, ill try not to be too patronizing towards you.
Thanks for managing to barely tone back your patronization, it must be quite the chore for someone of your obvious intellect to do while interacting with us plebs on a message board.
Lets say there is a bully in school and he wants to punch you and you run away - did you win the fight in the playground or are all the other children going to tell you that you are a coward and ran away - or do you believe in your heart that you won the fight?
You should work on making sense if you'd like to continue to be so condescending. This is an absolutely terrible analogy, it fails on pretty much every level.
I'll give you one that works though, while staying on topic:
The Empire killed every single member of the Rogue One mission, while taking minimal casualties themselves. When the big guns came out, the Rebels ran away leaving numerous ground troopers and pilots stranded, leaving them to almost certain death or capture by the Empire.
I stopped reading the second the OP said "Mary Sue" the first time.
Present an argument that Rey isn't a Mary Sue then.
I like how you ignored everything I replied to you on page freaking 1 about how in Star Wars terms she isn't a Mary Sue, and then cherry pick other posts to try to prove your point. Anakin, Luke, Starkiller, Reven, Jacen, Jaina, all did things as impressive or more so than Rey before training (or in the case of Revan: after a mindwipe, before re-training). If you have a problem with Rey you have a problem with Star Wars.
On Page 1? You mean from several weeks ago? And just so we're clear, neither Anakin nor Luke is a Mary Sue, and anyone from EU/Legends is hard to qualify as "Mary Sue" because practically everyone and everything in EU is OP and drawn out on a larger scale than what we see in current canon. I like EU because of the ridiculous force powers, but I don't like giving force powers to characters willy-nilly to advance the plot.
In addition to that, you can't qualify the term "Mary Sue" solely within the bounds of Star Wars when the whole point of my original post was that if TFA was not Star Wars, I would not have enjoyed it very much at all, and part of that was because the main protagonist is a Mary Sue!
We all love SW, but that doesn't mean we should overlook the weaknesses of SW releases just because of that adoration. We should still expect (and even demand, to an extent) the best out of the movies and other material because the best is what made us love SW to begin with.
Apparently, making people wait for the rest of the story really works when the fan base is already invested.
I know it works, lol. But a TV show is meant to be told in weekly installments. It's a different medium than a movie (even a movie series) where the audience has to wait 2 years to find out what happens. Even end of season cliff hangers only make you weight a few months until the next season.
Replies
It is part 7 not part 1, if you've never seen star wars you shouldn't watch this one
#rogueone2016
#makevadergreatagain
That was the most important reason why I liked TFA. The prequels were star wars movies, but they had no magic and didn't have the right feel somehow (I feel like Lucas got lost in what he could do with an almost unlimited budget).
Movies need magic. Like a lot of things, without magic it's really, really boring.
Characters. The “magic” you’re talking about comes from likable characters. In the OT and TFA, we’re invested in the action not just because it’s well done, but because we connect with the characters and want them to succeed.
Bested?
Ok - so if 2 UFC fighters are in the ring, opponent 1 is kicking opponent 2's but, then opponent 2 runs away - opponent 2 then wins the fight because opponent 1 should have crushed him?
Your logic makes 0 sense.
Kanan and Ezra opted out of the fight and ran away for their lives because Vader would have crushed them. They did not win any fight - they ran like cowards.
Not yet anyway.
Leave 'em hanging
Apparently, making people wait for the rest of the story really works when the fan base is already invested.
Well I think this guy is funny and sort off agree with him. Upon talking to some real people I found we all have similar things to say. It's a worse movie then the prequels in my view, but that is subjective and it can't be helped
Still like the movie and love the universe, but objectively (logic/plotholes/characters) is a bad movie - a poor rebot of the original... \
We do all identify with the main character tho - good at every single thing, awesome fighters, excellent pilots, amazing technicians yet stuck and poor in a dead desert waiting for our parents but willing to go look for them if the slightest opportunity arises
Well yeah but if you watch it a 4th time you will ask yourself who puts so much make up on to go to a bar? and a low end bar at that...and she's a spy...so yeah IDK it feels wrong to me...every single detail in the movie just seems off somehow...like it was just added on top of something... like poe shots singlehandedly 14 ties in a spawn of 10 seconds then kills like 4 stortropers on land with pinpoint accuracy, it was an awesome scen, but how is the resistance loosing with such odds? I mean why not just send poe singlehandedly ahead of the invasion to take down the fighters.... everything is shiny but lacks substance...
Your logic and analogy makes 0 sense, because no one claimed Kanan and/or Ezra bested Vader. Kanan was blinded and spent, Ezra was clearly outmatched, and they had an expiration date of about 2 minutes after Vader showed up.
Ahsoka bested Vader though, not really sure how that point is debatable...
As far as we know, Vader killed Ahsoka in the sith temple. She put up a good fight, but she didn't best him.
JJ Can not write an original movie. He has to fall back on what was his love growing up. Discount Tatooine, discount Jawas that weren’t Jawas, what the kittens are those chopper teeth in those hoods, discount Death Star, super laser that travels through hyperspace and can be seen throughout the galaxy by just looking up into the sky, hyperspace that’s really warp drive (JJ has no concept of time or distance), Yoda is now a girl with a crush on Chewie, half baked plot, under developed characters, all his friends and family guest star, characters that remind you of Lost and what’s that other wreck of a show, wanting others to flush out your main bad guy in other episodes, everyone in the galaxy is related to Luke and Leia, just wait and see. Oh, and lens flares
At the end of the episode, ahsoka can be seen walking further into the temple. Dave Filoni also wore a shirt at the star wars con that said “ahsoka lives!”
As DatBoi said, we saw her walking back into the temple, and director and cast has strongly hinted that she will make an appearance in the final season.
I'm gonna lead with Vader is easily on my 'Top 3 villains of all time' list, I'm not some Snips fan that is crazy biased. That said, Ahsoka beat the brakes off Vader, the only thing that prevented her from killing him was her love and misplaced loyalty for Anakinn. She even says "I can't kill you" to which he replies "Then you will die" after she cut off the front half of his mask. If she wanted Vader dead they wouldn't be having that conversation, he'd already be decapitated. She didn't miss on an attack, she intentionally cut off the front of his mask to hoping to confirm that she was wrong, she had to be wrong; despite her knowing it was true, that Anakin couldn't be Vader.
But this is somewhat irrelevant, regardless of opinions on the fight, Ahsoka bested Vader because she accomplished her goals and he did not. Her objective wasn't to kill Vader, it was to 'prevent Vader' from taking the Sith Holocron, with a side quest of 'keep Ezra & Kanan alive, and get them out of there.' Vader's goal was to get that Holocron, with a sprinkling of kill any/all LS force users.
She succeeded in her goals, and prevented Vader from accomplishing any of his; that's pretty clear cut to me.
Kathleen Kennedy didn't want an original movie. She wanted a re-hash of the original trilogy. She wants to be safe. That's why so many directors have been leaving Star Wars movies, and why JJ is back for IX.
I love Disney and hate Disney for bringing Star Wars back. For that reason.
I hate Disney for cancelling a GREAT show in Clone Wars. But other than that I'm generally happy with what we've gotten, and will continue to get.
I like how you ignored everything I replied to you on page freaking 1 about how in Star Wars terms she isn't a Mary Sue, and then cherry pick other posts to try to prove your point. Anakin, Luke, Starkiller, Reven, Jacen, Jaina, all did things as impressive or more so than Rey before training (or in the case of Revan: after a mindwipe, before re-training). If you have a problem with Rey you have a problem with Star Wars.
I like your analysis here, goals are key, but one thing I would add: people aren't taking into account Vader's character or motivations, or the recurring themes in Star Wars. Yeah, he didn't kill Ezra and he didn't get the holocron, but that's because in those early moments he was arrogant. This was a child standing in front of him. He could have thrown his saber, killed the boy, and the collected the holocron from his corpse. But that isn't Vader's style. He will impose his will and show just how much more powerful he is. That neither the boy or his master can stand against him. And that arrogance costs him, just as it earlier cost the council and Windu, and would later cost Tarkin and the Emperor.
And you point out that Ahsoka didn't kill him early because of who she thought he might be, but it's just as likely that she had such easy pickings in the early fight because he already knew who she was. When he calls her name it isn't in anger, but rather there is still positive emotion behind it. He later regains his resolve to fight her, but it's likely in the early moments he was still Anakin and not Vader, so to speak.
She too "escaped" liking her wounds. Yes Vader would have killed her, but QGJ did not "best" Darth aul in the desert either - he too ran away/escaped.
Considering we never got to see the true fight between Ahsoka and Vader we know Vader goes on to do other things - we have not yet seen Ahsoka. Yes she may make an appearance in Season 4 but we don't know anything yet.
Besides @Supercat stated this:
I count it as bested if Vader didn’t kill Ezra and Kanan because they should’ve been crushed.
I just argued that point - so why does my argument not bear any logic to you. Shall I say it another way for you, ill try not to be too patronizing towards you.
Lets say there is a bully in school and he wants to punch you and you run away - did you win the fight in the playground or are all the other children going to tell you that you are a coward and ran away - or do you believe in your heart that you won the fight?
Licking her wounds? Did we watch the same duel? How are you so sure Vader would have won?
A "true fight" isn't gonna favor Vader. He was trying to kill her, he didn't. She was dancing circles around him while actively refusing to kill him; and still got a bumbling Ezra, a blind Kanan and the Holocron away to safety.
Thanks for managing to barely tone back your patronization, it must be quite the chore for someone of your obvious intellect to do while interacting with us plebs on a message board.
You should work on making sense if you'd like to continue to be so condescending. This is an absolutely terrible analogy, it fails on pretty much every level.
I'll give you one that works though, while staying on topic:
The Empire killed every single member of the Rogue One mission, while taking minimal casualties themselves. When the big guns came out, the Rebels ran away leaving numerous ground troopers and pilots stranded, leaving them to almost certain death or capture by the Empire.
Who won the fight?
On Page 1? You mean from several weeks ago? And just so we're clear, neither Anakin nor Luke is a Mary Sue, and anyone from EU/Legends is hard to qualify as "Mary Sue" because practically everyone and everything in EU is OP and drawn out on a larger scale than what we see in current canon. I like EU because of the ridiculous force powers, but I don't like giving force powers to characters willy-nilly to advance the plot.
In addition to that, you can't qualify the term "Mary Sue" solely within the bounds of Star Wars when the whole point of my original post was that if TFA was not Star Wars, I would not have enjoyed it very much at all, and part of that was because the main protagonist is a Mary Sue!
We all love SW, but that doesn't mean we should overlook the weaknesses of SW releases just because of that adoration. We should still expect (and even demand, to an extent) the best out of the movies and other material because the best is what made us love SW to begin with.
I know it works, lol. But a TV show is meant to be told in weekly installments. It's a different medium than a movie (even a movie series) where the audience has to wait 2 years to find out what happens. Even end of season cliff hangers only make you weight a few months until the next season.