Star Wars: The Last Jedi Spoiler thread

Replies

  • Mullato
    2582 posts Member
    Mullato wrote: »
    Supercat wrote: »
    Mullato wrote: »
    Supercat wrote: »
    With The Last Jedi on the horizon, I am starting to see that ridiculous claim pop up often again, especially on YouTube. Well, here is how you can show people how silly they are being... Feel free to link my post and it should shut them up pretty fast. :wink:

    First of all, I am 100% positive Rey comes from the Skywalker family and her character is essentially the same as the protagonists (Luke and Anakin) in the previous two trilogies. All three characters had pretty much the same background, story development, and skill sets.

    Lets examine the characters and see just how similar they are.....

    20hrotg.jpg
    Luke Skywalker - Luke was a great pilot, skilled mechanic and extremely powerful Force-user. He grew up on a desolate planet (Tatooine) and dreamed of becoming a pilot. He began using Force abilities with no training, as we saw in the trench run on the Death Star and during his lightsaber practice with the seeker droid. He picked up his mechanical skills while working with droids on the farm. He learned to fly in a T16 and once he joined the Rebellion, he quickly became one of the best pilots. Luke suddenly found himself thrown into the conflict, was trained by one of the greatest Jedi (Obi-Wan), experienced an important death (Obi-Wan) that changed his character in either a good or bad way, and eventually his story culminated in a battle with a family member (Vader).

    8ys6x0.jpg
    Anakin Skywalker - Anakin was a great pilot, skilled mechanic and extremely powerful Force-user. He grew up on a desolate planet (Tatooine) and dreamed of becoming a pilot. He began using Force abilities with no training, as we witnessed in the Boonta Eve Classic podrace. Qui-Gon Jinn even mentions it to his mother in one scene. He picked up his mechanical skills while working on droids and podracers. He didn't have any previous experience as a pilot until his first space battle but the podracing helped and he quickly became one the best pilots. Anakin suddenly found himself thrown into the conflict, was trained by one of the greatest Jedi (Obi-Wan), experienced an important death (his mother) that changed his character in either a good or bad way, and eventually his story culminated in a battle with a family member. Obi-Wan was essentially his brother as he said himself. Then later he fought his son.

    1z2j2fs.jpg
    Rey Skywalker - Rey was a great pilot, skilled mechanic and will be an extremely powerful Force-user. She grew up on a desolate planet (Jakku) and dreamed of becoming a pilot. She began using Force abilities with no training, as we witnessed in the interrogation scene and when she fought Kylo. She picked up her mechanical skills while scavenging ships for a living. And as we read in the book, she learned to pilot ships after finding an old flight simulator computer in one of the scavenged ships. Rey suddenly found herself thrown into the conflict, will be trained by one of the greatest Jedi (Luke), experienced an important death (Han Solo) that changed her character in either a good or bad way, and eventually her story in the first film culminated in a battle with a family member (Kylo Ren), whom she will most likely battle again later in the series.

    As you can see, the three characters are nearly identical in terms of story and skills. This is why I am 100% sure that Luke will be Rey's father. They are obviously doing a continuation of the Skywalker story. They are also elements from the Jacen and Jaina Solo story in the Expanded Universe books. Both of whom had the same skills as Luke and Anakin as well, btw. If they hate Rey, they would really lose their minds if the freaking Sword of the Jedi, Jaina Solo, was in the movie instead. lol I can already imagine the outrage. :D

    OTHER COMMON ARGUMENTS:

    But how could she possibly win a lightsaber duel with a Sith without any training, while Luke got his hand cut off in his first battle with Vader? Well, the first problem is that Kylo is just an apprentice and Vader was a Sith Lord. In fact, he was THE Dark Lord of the Sith. Snoke also mentions that Kylo needed to complete his training so he clearly is not a Sith Lord. The second problem with this argument is that Kylo was seriously injured by Chewie's bowcaster from a previous scene. This is why someone (Finn) who wasn't even Force-user was able to survive as long as he did against him. Finally, lightsaber dueling is more about the Force than actual training and skill with the weapon. If people had read the books they would have a better understanding of it. Particularly the New Jedi Order series. The Jedi had to fight an enemy (the Yuuzhan Vong) that they couldn't sense with the Force so they were unable to use it to anticipate their actions during battles. They had to rely on their lightsaber skill alone and this didn't always turn out well for some of them. Oh and Rey was also clearly skilled at fighting with her staff.

    But how was Rey able to fly the Falcon better than Han Solo? When exactly was it established that she was better at flying the Falcon than Han? I think people mean to say she was better at fixing the Falcon, which makes sense considering that she salvaged ships for a living. Also, she may very well be better at piloting the Falcon than Han, considering her natural Force ability and the fact that she spent so much time on the flight simulator. And don't forget that Skywalker bloodline. Also, remember that Han is not a Force-user.

    So for the last time, no, Rey is not a Mary Sue. If she is, then so are Anakin and Luke. Anakin was the freaking Chosen One. lol

    If anyone has any other questions they would like me to address, feel free to let me know.

    jfcmmq.png
    Luke had training from kenobi when he blew up the Death Star.
    Anakin was trained by Jar Jar, and was already a great pilot.
    DatBoi wrote: »
    First of all i (mostly) agree with you. At least enough that I dont find her a bad character or constantly whine about her. But i think you understate some of her abilities, especially her competency with the force.

    When luke and anakin "use" the force, they aren't so much using abilities as much as being guided by in. In the trench, luke isn't willing the torpedoes to go where he wants them to, he's merely surrending himself to the will of the force. Same with anakin. He didnt "use the force" to win the podrace, he was simply being guided by it.

    I'm ok with rey resisting kylo's mind probe and even her summoning the lightsaber, but i think the jedi mind trick took things a bit too far. That is a very specific ability that requires knowledge and active manipulation of the force. She wasn't surrendering to the will of the force, she bent it to her will. That isn't something luke or anakin ever did before any training.

    Nope, I just read all of the books so I know the whole story. I really can't emphasize enough on how important it is to read the books if you want to know something. "The Force Awakens" and "Before the Awakening" novels answer all of the questions people had about Rey, except for who her parents are and we will learn about that soon enough. Rey learns how to do the mind trick when she is in Kylo's mind during the interrogation scene. She didn't just resist his probe, she entered his mind and was able to see his memories, which is why he reacts the way he did in the movie. She also fails on her first attempt to use the mind trick.

    Also, in the book, Heir to the Jedi, which takes place immediately following the events of A New Hope, Luke uses the mind trick before he has had any training with it. And much like Rey, he fails his first attempt.

    All Force abilities are innate and there are characters who can use them without any actual training in specific abilities. How do you think the first Jedi and Sith were able to use them when there was no one to teach them? :o Or even the first Force-users in general? You should learn about characters like Darth Bane and Lord Vitiate, who both have extremely powerful abilities that they didn't learn from other Sith.

    That fact that readings books proves your point is a very bad backing up; you shouldn't have to buy extra material to correct a fail.

    So when everyone watched ANH for the first time, was it a fail because no one knew why Luke had these "special powers?"

    Obiwan explained the force in ANH, I don't see why it would be called a fail.

    Exactly. We know what the force is, and what it can do. So maybe Rey is just simply more gifted than what we've seen before?

    Gifted and exaggerated are two different things

    Oh thx.
  • I can't believe Rey will be Luke's daughter. JJ Abrams said Kylo and Rey never saw each other before. So I guess it's hard to believe that luke could have a daughter and keep her out of sight of his students and Leia and han.

    There can't be any doubt that tfa had a lot of plot holes. Whole Rey is certainly not a Mary Sue, there are other points. For eg finn was so exaggerated that there was even a theory that he was the actual force user. As for Kylo being injured and trauma of killing his dad was not enough. His lightsaber pierced Rey and she still managed to defeat him.
    That said everyone has some problems and I'm not complaining
  • And Poe is Princess Leia's secret son let's look at the similarities.

    Poe seeks aid from an old man on a desert planet and is captured by a powerful dark side user. He gives secret information to a droid to keep it out of enemy hands. Someone with a shady past & no real interest in fighting the bad guys rescues him, they develop positive feelings for each other. His Rescuer leaves the Hero to their own devices only to return & help save the day.

    It's as if Luke, Leia, Han were shoved into a blender. The delicious story goo was then injected into 3 molds and left to set. Out pops Poe, Finn, and Rey with bits of their predecessor mixed & matched.

    I doubt Rey is Luke's secret daughter. Or more precisely I hope she isn't. Because that's hacky and they wouldn't explain the plot holes in the movies and I don't wanna read a book to understand it. I love to read & I love Star Wars, but Star Wars books mostly suck.
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    SlabRankle wrote: »
    And Poe is Princess Leia's secret son let's look at the similarities.

    Poe seeks aid from an old man on a desert planet and is captured by a powerful dark side user. He gives secret information to a droid to keep it out of enemy hands. Someone with a shady past & no real interest in fighting the bad guys rescues him, they develop positive feelings for each other. His Rescuer leaves the Hero to their own devices only to return & help save the day.

    Lol, what? Just because they do a lot of the same stuff doesn't mean they're related.
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    I can't believe Rey will be Luke's daughter. JJ Abrams said Kylo and Rey never saw each other before. So I guess it's hard to believe that luke could have a daughter and keep her out of sight of his students and Leia and han.

    There can't be any doubt that tfa had a lot of plot holes. Whole Rey is certainly not a Mary Sue, there are other points. For eg finn was so exaggerated that there was even a theory that he was the actual force user. As for Kylo being injured and trauma of killing his dad was not enough. His lightsaber pierced Rey and she still managed to defeat him.
    That said everyone has some problems and I'm not complaining
    How is finn exaggerated? He really doesn't do a whole lot besides shoot some tie fighters and play around with a lightsaber (poorly)
  • DatBoi wrote: »
    SlabRankle wrote: »
    And Poe is Princess Leia's secret son let's look at the similarities.

    Poe seeks aid from an old man on a desert planet and is captured by a powerful dark side user. He gives secret information to a droid to keep it out of enemy hands. Someone with a shady past & no real interest in fighting the bad guys rescues him, they develop positive feelings for each other. His Rescuer leaves the Hero to their own devices only to return & help save the day.

    Lol, what? Just because they do a lot of the same stuff doesn't mean they're related.

    Lol yes that was kinda the whole point of that post.
  • Rey is a Mary Sue. She has no flaws.
  • Velocitious
    276 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    I don't think Rey is a Mary Sue. But I'm sure she won't be a Skywalker because that is too obvious. Also, JJ Abrams has confirmed that Rey's parents are not in Episode VII during an interview. Maybe she'll end up being a Kenobi, a Palpatine, or even a Bridger? (I hope not)
  • And what about these "books" so many people keep referring to? Are they even official/canon? If so, I would at least like a fair warning at the end of every movie: "This film contained major story holes (not plot holes); please refer to the upcoming book (series) to properly understand the story as a whole."

    Shouldn't be too hard to spot the sarcasm there. Movies should be movies, books should be books, I hate it when they create overlapping "universes" like that.
    Proud and Belgian officer of [DTA] BIER DTA | official Lando Calrissian fanboy KappaPride
  • Teague
    905 posts Member
    Some of the books openly codridict the movies. For instance, Revenge of the Sith. In the book, Anakin is talking trash the whole time he's killing the separatist leaders, clearly enjoying it. But in the movie, George Lucas decided that he should be borderline crying the whole time, being eaten up with emotions. A clear contradiction of the same event.
  • No one complained when Luke was a Gary Stu. No one complained when little Anakin was a Gary Stu. Everyone complained when Rey was a Mary Sue even if she wasn't.
  • No one complained when Luke was a Gary Stu. No one complained when little Anakin was a Gary Stu. Everyone complained when Rey was a Mary Sue even if she wasn't.

    I will give luke, but you are on powerful high quality crack if you are claiming no one complained about lil Anankin blowing up the trade federation ship.
  • There were no errors at all. And the plot holes only exist to people who didn't read the books.

    A movie should stand on its own merit. You should not have to read a book for the movie to make sense. Yes, books can be nice companion pieces, but they should never be required for the movie to work. Ever.
  • Dhoey321
    1629 posts Member
    I don't think she is Luke's daughter but i can see her being a Skywalker
  • Mullato
    2582 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    There were no errors at all. And the plot holes only exist to people who didn't read the books.

    A movie should stand on its own merit. You should not have to read a book for the movie to make sense. Yes, books can be nice companion pieces, but they should never be required for the movie to work. Ever.

    How hard is it to understand after seeing someone do something that maybe they are just either naturally good at it or have prior experience?

    Seeing Rey be a good pilot/mechanic. Context clues would tell you that she probably has some type of experience in that field.

    Seeing Rey use the force. Context clues would tell you either she's naturally gifted, has prior experience, is connected to the force in a strong way, or is something we've never seen before.

    The books merely expand on backstories and plot devices that are not needed to be included in the film to understand something.
  • Dhoey321
    1629 posts Member
    Mullato wrote: »
    There were no errors at all. And the plot holes only exist to people who didn't read the books.

    A movie should stand on its own merit. You should not have to read a book for the movie to make sense. Yes, books can be nice companion pieces, but they should never be required for the movie to work. Ever.

    How hard is it to understand after seeing someone do something that maybe they are just either naturally good at it or have prior experience?

    Hard. That'd be like finding a random person on the street and putting them into a professional sports game.

    I highly doubt they'd be able to hold their own in the game like Rey held her own using the force and dueling with a light saber.
  • Mullato
    2582 posts Member
    Dhoey321 wrote: »
    Mullato wrote: »
    There were no errors at all. And the plot holes only exist to people who didn't read the books.

    A movie should stand on its own merit. You should not have to read a book for the movie to make sense. Yes, books can be nice companion pieces, but they should never be required for the movie to work. Ever.

    How hard is it to understand after seeing someone do something that maybe they are just either naturally good at it or have prior experience?

    Hard. That'd be like finding a random person on the street and putting them into a professional sports game.

    I highly doubt they'd be able to hold their own in the game like Rey held her own using the force and dueling with a light saber.

    This is a movie bro..............
  • Mullato
    2582 posts Member
    Mullato wrote: »
    Dhoey321 wrote: »
    Mullato wrote: »
    There were no errors at all. And the plot holes only exist to people who didn't read the books.

    A movie should stand on its own merit. You should not have to read a book for the movie to make sense. Yes, books can be nice companion pieces, but they should never be required for the movie to work. Ever.

    How hard is it to understand after seeing someone do something that maybe they are just either naturally good at it or have prior experience?

    Hard. That'd be like finding a random person on the street and putting them into a professional sports game.

    I highly doubt they'd be able to hold their own in the game like Rey held her own using the force and dueling with a light saber.

    This is a movie bro..............

    A science- fiction space fantasy movie........
  • No one complained when Luke was a Gary Stu. No one complained when little Anakin was a Gary Stu. Everyone complained when Rey was a Mary Sue even if she wasn't.

    Sigh. Don't wish to rant really, but here we go ...

    Luke was a Gary Stu? Luke, the guy who
    • Got cold-**** by a sneaky Tusken Raider and rescued by an old man
    • Half drowned by a dionaga and nearly pancaked in a trash compacter, rescued by a droid
    • Narrowly avoided getting blowed up by Vader in the DS trench thanks to Han's intervention
    • Face-slapped and captured by a wampa, rescued himself this time!
    • Shot down in a snow-speeder defending Hoth base
    • Beaten within an inch of his life by Vader in a light saber duel, lost his hand, rescued by Leia
    • Lightning-roasted by the Emperor, rescued by Vader in an epic moment of redemption
    Yes, Luke did better in ROTJ. Most of his story was about continuing to try despite seemingly impossible odds.
    Mullato wrote: »
    Mullato wrote: »
    Dhoey321 wrote: »
    Mullato wrote: »
    There were no errors at all. And the plot holes only exist to people who didn't read the books.

    A movie should stand on its own merit. You should not have to read a book for the movie to make sense. Yes, books can be nice companion pieces, but they should never be required for the movie to work. Ever.

    How hard is it to understand after seeing someone do something that maybe they are just either naturally good at it or have prior experience?

    Hard. That'd be like finding a random person on the street and putting them into a professional sports game.

    I highly doubt they'd be able to hold their own in the game like Rey held her own using the force and dueling with a light saber.

    This is a movie bro..............

    A science- fiction space fantasy movie........

    Space opera
  • @abentwookiee I agree with your argument and defense of Rey 100%, outside of her being a Skywalker. I only say that because none of us know for sure yet. :)

    People will argue this Mary Sue garbage until the banthas come home because they really want to believe that "Disney is ruining Star Wars" (when in reality, Disney is probably the best thing to happen to Star Wars since the original Zahn trilogy). Many of the arguments against the films (after Disney) have to do with either the gender of the protagonist or the ethnicity of the supporting cast. I don't consider those valid arguments. Another common complaint is that the characters are "for children" which says more about the complainer than the story itself.

    Now, if you talk about flooding the market with content and creating a glut, yeah...I can see how that would be detrimental but so far I've dug everything they've put out. I have the new "Thrawn" waiting for me at home. I hope I don't read it all in one night!

    Thanks for articulating the argument so well!


  • Carbonari wrote: »
    @abentwookiee I agree with your argument and defense of Rey 100%, outside of her being a Skywalker. I only say that because none of us know for sure yet. :)

    People will argue this Mary Sue garbage until the banthas come home because they really want to believe that "Disney is ruining Star Wars" (when in reality, Disney is probably the best thing to happen to Star Wars since the original Zahn trilogy). Many of the arguments against the films (after Disney) have to do with either the gender of the protagonist or the ethnicity of the supporting cast. I don't consider those valid arguments. Another common complaint is that the characters are "for children" which says more about the complainer than the story itself.

    Now, if you talk about flooding the market with content and creating a glut, yeah...I can see how that would be detrimental but so far I've dug everything they've put out. I have the new "Thrawn" waiting for me at home. I hope I don't read it all in one night!

    Thanks for articulating the argument so well!


    Mary Sue? No, but she does make the force look cheap to some thus the frustration.
    The movie was pretty good overall with some glaring inconsistencies, but very passionate Star Wars fans, whether like or dislike, only see in black or white thus we have people who defend it no matter what and others who think it's the worst. Same can be said for R1.
  • I have actually liked both of the new films. Interesting stories, and mysteries to be solved. Not everything is spoon-fed like ... some other movies I have seen.

    But Rey has not failed at anything, that makes her a Mary Sue. The only time I saw her do anything that might be considered a failure was when Kylo captured her.

    Rey better not be Luke's daughter. There is no explanation for him abandoning a five year old on Jakku and leaving her to a life of scavenging. Simply unacceptable for it to work out that way.
  • Gebuttersnaps
    478 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    I have actually liked both of the new films. Interesting stories, and mysteries to be solved. Not everything is spoon-fed like ... some other movies I have seen.

    But Rey has not failed at anything, that makes her a Mary Sue. The only time I saw her do anything that might be considered a failure was when Kylo captured her.

    Rey better not be Luke's daughter. There is no explanation for him abandoning a five year old on Jakku and leaving her to a life of scavenging. Simply unacceptable for it to work out that way.

    Well, they already made Luke out to be a coward and feint-hearted so why not a child deserter while they're at it.
    Post edited by Gebuttersnaps on
  • Carbonari wrote: »
    @abentwookiee I agree with your argument and defense of Rey 100%, outside of her being a Skywalker. I only say that because none of us know for sure yet. :)

    People will argue this Mary Sue garbage until the banthas come home because they really want to believe that "Disney is ruining Star Wars" (when in reality, Disney is probably the best thing to happen to Star Wars since the original Zahn trilogy). Many of the arguments against the films (after Disney) have to do with either the gender of the protagonist or the ethnicity of the supporting cast. I don't consider those valid arguments. Another common complaint is that the characters are "for children" which says more about the complainer than the story itself.

    Now, if you talk about flooding the market with content and creating a glut, yeah...I can see how that would be detrimental but so far I've dug everything they've put out. I have the new "Thrawn" waiting for me at home. I hope I don't read it all in one night!

    Thanks for articulating the argument so well!


    Lol wut? I have met many Star Wars fans unhappy with the Force Awakens, haven't come across that at all. I like it overall but Planet Death Star eating a Sun blowing planets from across the Galaxy (with no explanation whatsoever) was my **** moment. It wasn't a perfect film, a lot of people had high hopes and were disappointed and lashed out. To say that that is largely racially or gender motivated is quite a leap on your part. Wait, do you live in Southern Stereotype?
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    I have actually liked both of the new films. Interesting stories, and mysteries to be solved. Not everything is spoon-fed like ... some other movies I have seen.

    But Rey has not failed at anything, that makes her a Mary Sue. The only time I saw her do anything that might be considered a failure was when Kylo captured her.

    Rey better not be Luke's daughter. There is no explanation for him abandoning a five year old on Jakku and leaving her to a life of scavenging. Simply unacceptable for it to work out that way.

    Well, they already made Luke out to be a coward and feint-hearted so why not a child deserter while their at it.

    What?
  • Supercat
    3250 posts Member
    Carbonari wrote: »
    @abentwookiee I agree with your argument and defense of Rey 100%, outside of her being a Skywalker. I only say that because none of us know for sure yet. :)

    People will argue this Mary Sue garbage until the banthas come home because they really want to believe that "Disney is ruining Star Wars" (when in reality, Disney is probably the best thing to happen to Star Wars since the original Zahn trilogy). Many of the arguments against the films (after Disney) have to do with either the gender of the protagonist or the ethnicity of the supporting cast. I don't consider those valid arguments. Another common complaint is that the characters are "for children" which says more about the complainer than the story itself.

    Now, if you talk about flooding the market with content and creating a glut, yeah...I can see how that would be detrimental but so far I've dug everything they've put out. I have the new "Thrawn" waiting for me at home. I hope I don't read it all in one night!

    Thanks for articulating the argument so well!


    Wow.

    Just Wow.

    You accuse others of being racist and sexist without providing any backing for your argument?
    "I'll just divert people from thinking rey is a Mary Sue by throwing insane accusations about racists, knowing nothing about them, at others." Are you a politician?
    Don't be a ****(4), and follow forum guidelines.
  • DatBoi wrote: »
    I have actually liked both of the new films. Interesting stories, and mysteries to be solved. Not everything is spoon-fed like ... some other movies I have seen.

    But Rey has not failed at anything, that makes her a Mary Sue. The only time I saw her do anything that might be considered a failure was when Kylo captured her.

    Rey better not be Luke's daughter. There is no explanation for him abandoning a five year old on Jakku and leaving her to a life of scavenging. Simply unacceptable for it to work out that way.

    Well, they already made Luke out to be a coward and feint-hearted so why not a child deserter while their at it.

    What?

    Well maybe coward was a little too much. He did run away to a secluded island without telling anyone where he was(except R2) to basically just pout.
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    Supercat wrote: »
    Carbonari wrote: »
    @abentwookiee I agree with your argument and defense of Rey 100%, outside of her being a Skywalker. I only say that because none of us know for sure yet. :)

    People will argue this Mary Sue garbage until the banthas come home because they really want to believe that "Disney is ruining Star Wars" (when in reality, Disney is probably the best thing to happen to Star Wars since the original Zahn trilogy). Many of the arguments against the films (after Disney) have to do with either the gender of the protagonist or the ethnicity of the supporting cast. I don't consider those valid arguments. Another common complaint is that the characters are "for children" which says more about the complainer than the story itself.

    Now, if you talk about flooding the market with content and creating a glut, yeah...I can see how that would be detrimental but so far I've dug everything they've put out. I have the new "Thrawn" waiting for me at home. I hope I don't read it all in one night!

    Thanks for articulating the argument so well!


    Wow.

    Just Wow.

    You accuse others of being racist and sexist without providing any backing for your argument?
    "I'll just divert people from thinking rey is a Mary Sue by throwing insane accusations about racists, knowing nothing about them, at others." Are you a politician?

    @Carbonari isn't accusing anyone. They're just saying that there are people who criticized TFA for those reasons and that they aren't valid criticisms.
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    DatBoi wrote: »
    I have actually liked both of the new films. Interesting stories, and mysteries to be solved. Not everything is spoon-fed like ... some other movies I have seen.

    But Rey has not failed at anything, that makes her a Mary Sue. The only time I saw her do anything that might be considered a failure was when Kylo captured her.

    Rey better not be Luke's daughter. There is no explanation for him abandoning a five year old on Jakku and leaving her to a life of scavenging. Simply unacceptable for it to work out that way.

    Well, they already made Luke out to be a coward and feint-hearted so why not a child deserter while their at it.

    What?

    Well maybe coward was a little too much. He did run away to a secluded island without telling anyone where he was(except R2) to basically just pout.

    He went into hiding because he failed as a Jedi Master. He had one job, one responsibility, and he messed up. He's feeling an enormous amount of guilt over how he failed Ben/Kylo, Han, Leia, and the Jedi Legacy. This opens up a lot of potentially interesting aspects of his character in TLJ where Rey has to remind him who he is, and convince him that there is a battle worth fighting. And I'm excited to explore that part of his character.

    It seems like anytime any character shows any sort of weakness or realistic personality (Kylo Ren, Old Luke, characters from Rebels, etc), people automatically consider them a "bad" character. These seem to be the same people who's favorite characters are Mace Windu, General Grievous, Darth Maul, and other lifeless, emotionless "[email protected]$$es". Well the quality of a character isn't (or shouldn't) be determined by how many flips they can do, its determined by the strength, plausibility, consistency, and realism of their personalities.
  • DatBoi wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    I have actually liked both of the new films. Interesting stories, and mysteries to be solved. Not everything is spoon-fed like ... some other movies I have seen.

    But Rey has not failed at anything, that makes her a Mary Sue. The only time I saw her do anything that might be considered a failure was when Kylo captured her.

    Rey better not be Luke's daughter. There is no explanation for him abandoning a five year old on Jakku and leaving her to a life of scavenging. Simply unacceptable for it to work out that way.

    Well, they already made Luke out to be a coward and feint-hearted so why not a child deserter while their at it.

    What?

    Well maybe coward was a little too much. He did run away to a secluded island without telling anyone where he was(except R2) to basically just pout.

    He went into hiding because he failed as a Jedi Master. He had one job, one responsibility, and he messed up. He's feeling an enormous amount of guilt over how he failed Ben/Kylo, Han, Leia, and the Jedi Legacy. This opens up a lot of potentially interesting aspects of his character in TLJ where Rey has to remind him who he is, and convince him that there is a battle worth fighting. And I'm excited to explore that part of his character.

    It seems like anytime any character shows any sort of weakness or realistic personality (Kylo Ren, Old Luke, characters from Rebels, etc), people automatically consider them a "bad" character. These seem to be the same people who's favorite characters are Mace Windu, General Grievous, Darth Maul, and other lifeless, emotionless "[email protected]$$es". Well the quality of a character isn't (or shouldn't) be determined by how many flips they can do, its determined by the strength, plausibility, consistency, and realism of their personalities.

    That's all well and good but the original trilogy portrayed Luke as one to never give up on anything he believes in; for instance,
    1.he goes to save his friends from a known trap against the advice of his mentors
    2.after he finds his father is one of the worst people in the known galaxy(idk about you but I would be traumatized) he continues to preserve to help his father and to stop the empire.
    Now in Tfa one of his student turns to the dark side and he just ups and leaves everyone he loves behind. I would call that pretty inconsistent.
    Btw I never said it's bad for a character to be flawed or show emotion I just can't stand a character who is written inconsistently more than anything.
    Characters that are shallow but consistent in their motivation and decisions are better and more bearable than ones that aren't imho. That is why I think R1 is a better overall movie than Tfa.
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